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One World with Zain Asher

Ukraine Is Prepared For A Crucial Phase In The War With Russia; Tragic Indian Train Crash Took At Least 275 lives; Human Rights Advocates In Senegal Claim That The Government Has Already Begun To Crack Down On Opposition; The 54 Bodies Of Ugandan Soldiers Who Died Were Found In The Insurgent Organization Al-Shabaab Attack Last Week; Nikki Haley Trying To Advance Her Presidential Campaign By Urging For Understanding On Divisive Topics; Prince Harry To Provide Testimony In His Lawsuit Over Suspected Phone Hacking; Darren Lewis Interviews Belgian Striker Romelu Lukaku, Playing In The Champions League Final. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired June 05, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Zain Asher in New York. And this is ONE WORLD.

Ukraine is refusing to say when or where or how its long-awaited counteroffensive will begin or even if it's already underway. But Kyiv is

again making it clear there won't be an official announcement, even as it suggests the highly anticipated attack is yet to come. The Ukrainian

military is denying claims that Russia repelled a large-scale offensive in the southern Donetsk region, accusing Moscow of spreading lies for

propaganda purposes.

And Ukraine's deputy defense minister calls it an attempt by the Kremlin to divert attention away from its own military challenges, particularly in

Bakhmut. But Moscow maintains, without providing any evidence, that hundreds of Ukrainian troops were killed in Donetsk over the weekend while

attempting to break through Russian lines. Russia's war meantime continues, creeping back onto its own territory. A group of anti-Putin nationalists

aligned with the Ukrainian army claim they carried attack on the Belgorod region.

All right, turning now to a CNN exclusive, sources tell us Ukraine has cultivated a network of agents working inside of Russia to carry out acts

of sabotage and enemy targets. And they're likely responsible for strategic drone attacks, including this one in Moscow just last month. CNN's Natasha

Bertrand is joining us live now from the Pentagon. So just walk us through what we know about these saboteurs and how they gain access to drones and

other weaponry as well.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes. And so, what we're learning from U.S. and Western officials familiar with the intelligence

about this is that Ukraine has, for the last year, been cultivating a network of sabotage agents inside Russia to try to wage attacks on Russian

targets there. And this is a mix of pro-Ukrainian sympathizers as well as agents, we're told, who are actually very well-trained in this kind of

warfare.

And what we're told is that they are being given drones by the Ukrainians, so that they can use them, of course, to target things like oil refineries,

Kremlin buildings, as we saw last month, and other high value targets that the Ukrainians feel will basically knock the Russians off balance, distract

them from the Ukrainian counteroffensive and divert resources, as well as, of course, kind of strike fear into the heart of ordinary Russians and make

them believe that they are really not safe anywhere and that the war has come home to them.

Now, we don't know exactly how the Ukrainians have been getting the drones to these pro-Ukrainian actors inside Russia, but we are told that there are

several well-practiced smuggling routes that the Ukrainians have been really using since Russia invaded Crimea in 2014. They have been kind of

practicing this for and doing this for about nine years now. And so, they have their ways of doing this. U.S. officials say that they do believe, at

this point, that this is a smart military strategy because it is distracting Russia and forcing its devout resources to protect its own

territory.

But, of course, there are the questions of whether Russia has a red line and whether it will retaliate in a way that we have not seen before for

these kinds of attacks on Russian soils. Zain.

ASHER: Right, Natasha Bertrand live for us there. Thank you so much.

All right, the top U.S. military officer talks exclusively to CNN about one war, while, of course, remembering another. General Mark Milley, Chairman

of the Joint Chief of Staff, is in France to mark the 79th anniversary of D-Day. Well, that was a pivotal moment in World War II. He believes Ukraine

is ready for a key moment in the ongoing conflict with Russia. He tells CNN Ukraine is well prepared for its expected counteroffensive.

CNN's Oren live now from Normandy, France. So Oren, obviously the U.S. has been supplying Ukraine with training, ammunition, all sorts of weaponry,

military aid, totaling billions of dollars so far. Just walk us through what else General Mark Milley said about Ukraine's preparation in terms of

this counteroffensive.

[12:05:06]

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: We had quite a bit of time to speak with him this morning here in Normandy as we celebrate and

commemorate the 79th anniversary of D-Day. So we talked about not only Ukraine, but China as well, sort of issues facing the Defense Department

back home.

But, of course, much of this focused on Ukraine. We specifically asked about the counteroffensive. First, is Ukraine ready? He said they are as

prepared as they're going to be, not only from the weaponry and the training the U.S. has sent in, but many of the other European countries as

well. So they have the military at this point that is as ready as it will be to counter out this counteroffensive.

But we pushed him here a little bit and said, how do you know if it will be successful, what will determine that success? And here, he was much more

careful. He has seen and studied military operations and he knows there is an element of probability, of chance, and all the different possibilities

and outcomes that could come from a military operation. So because of that, he wouldn't go as far as to make a prediction about how this

counteroffensive would go. Instead, here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, U.S. JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: So I think it's too early to tell what outcomes are going to happen. I think the Ukrainians are

very well prepared. As you know very well, the United States and other allied countries in Europe and really around the world have provided

training and ammunition and advice, intelligence, et cetera, to the Ukrainians. We're supporting them. They're in a war. It's an existential

threat for the very survival of Ukraine. And it has greater meaning to the rest of the world, for Europe, really for the United States, but also for

the globe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: We did also ask about the reporting you just heard from Natasha. What to make of these attacks inside Russia and how will Russia

respond? Is it possible that Russia chooses to escalate because of these attacks? And he basically said, essentially, yes, Russia could make the

decision to escalate because of attacks within their own turf. But he pointed out that this is the part of war. If Russia was going to attack

Ukraine, there should be at least some sort of expectation that Ukraine could bring the fight back to Russia. The key here is where and how Russia

chooses to escalate, if it does so.

So far, this is a war between Ukraine and Russia. And if it remains that way, this is something the U.S. is watching closely and will decide how it

affects U.S. and foreign policy. But if Russia chooses to escalate outside of Ukraine, that, he says, is an entirely different situation. Zain.

ASHER: Oren, obviously, you mentioned at the top that you spoke to him about tensions between the U.S. and China. What did he say about the

importance of opening the lines of communication, the channels of communication between both countries?

LIEBERMANN: For him, that's absolutely critical. China and the U.S., two of the strongest global powers, definitely in competition. The key here, he

says, is to make sure that doesn't veer towards confrontation and conflict. And to do that, you have to have open lines of communication, even when you

see some of the tension around some of the aggressive encounters between the U.S. and the Chinese military.

In fact, that's when it's most important to have those lines of communication. There are some of those. For example, CIA Director Bill

Burns was just in China, and a senior state official is there right now. But the Chinese counterpart of Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin refused a

meeting with him just a couple of days ago at a defense conference in Singapore. So there isn't the high-level military dialogue so critical to

make sure that this tension and the relationship doesn't go in the wrong directions. That's what he says, that they're looking to establish and

reopen to help this relationship.

ASHER: Right. Oren Liebermann live for us there. Thank you so much.

India has launched an official investigation into its deadliest rail crash in more than two decades. Preliminary findings point to signal failure as

the likely cause of Friday's collision, which killed at least 275 people and injured more than a thousand. India's railway says normal traffic has

resumed on the affected lines, but it could take much longer, of course, to restore trust. CNN's Ivan Watson reports from Eastern India.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Working on the railroad, an army of laborers laying new rail by hand. Racing to reopen

this transport route after one of the deadliest train disasters India has seen in its modern history.

On Friday night, three trains collided in this area. And everywhere on the side of the tracks, in this rural part of Eastern India, there are massive

railroad cars that were, as you can see, severely damaged in this collision. This vehicle here, this car, was reserved for people with

disabilities. You can still see people's personal belongings down below right outside.

It began with a passenger train moving at 128 kilometers or 80 miles per hour, slamming into a parked freight train. Colliding after dark in this

rural area, villagers rescued passengers by the light of their cell phones.

Did you actually, as volunteers, pull survivors from the train wagons?

[12:10:05]

UNKNOWN: Yes, yes. One of the worst hit train wagons where I told the other guys to put the mobile light. I entered into it. It was no space,

literally, because it was so inclined that everybody was male, female, everyone was dumped at a place. So we had to pull them very carefully. We

pulled them out. Few were alive. We just separated them. Few were dead. So we have to, don't have to waste the time.

WATSON: Crowds of volunteer gather outside local hospitals. Local reporters interviewing a crash survivor being transferred for treatment. Among the

crowd here, a worried mother. She is still searching for her missing son who is a passenger on the train. Inside the hospital, some of the more than

1,000 injured in the crash. The road to recovery may not be easy.

This 52-year-old farmer in so much pain, he can't lie down. I'm blessed to have another chance at life, says Monto Kumar (ph). The 32-year-old said

the collision felt like an earthquake. Afterwards, I took my shirt and wrapped it around my head and started looking for my friends, he says.

Kumar (ph) says he shared an ambulance with his friend, who lost both legs and later died.

The Indian government launched an investigation into this disaster and vows to punish anyone responsible. The pressure is on to ensure a catastrophe

like this never happens again. Ivan Watson, CNN, in Odisha State in Eastern India.

ASHER: And we will have much more later this hour on the train crash and concerns, obviously, that are happening right now for rail safety in India.

Viewers in China are trading blame after a close naval encounter in the Taiwan Strait. This video, released by the U.S. Navy, shows that moment

over the weekend when the U.S. says a Chinese military ship cut in front of a Navy destroyer. The American vessel had to slow down to avoid collision.

The Chinese defense minister accused the U.S. and its allies of trying to destabilize the Indo-Pacific region. The incident is increasing an already

tense relationship between the two countries.

CNN's Anna Coren has this report from Hong Kong.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's genuine concern that near misses like this one could lead to an accident and then a crisis. And this is

something the United States says it desperately wants to avoid. On Saturday, the USS Chung-Hoon and Canada's HMCS Montreal were transiting

through the Taiwan Strait when a Chinese vessel cut in front of the U.S. destroyer, carrying out what U.S. officials say was a, quote, unsafe

maneuver within 137 meters.

The U.S. destroyer was forced to slow to avoid a collision, as seen in video released by the U.S. Navy. It's no surprise that China is blaming the

U.S. Within hours of the incident, China's defense minister accused the U.S. of provocation and creating chaos in the region. A few hours ago, we

heard from the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Let's have a listen to the spokesman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WANG WENBIN, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESMAN: The truth is that the United States is provoking trouble first, and China is dealing with it in

accordance with laws and regulations. The actions taken by the Chinese military are necessary measures to deal with the provocations of certain

countries. And they are reasonable, legal, safe and professional.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: Some analysts believe it's the first time such a close encounter has occurred during a U.S. Navy transit of the Taiwan Strait. The backdrop to

all of this was the Shangri-La dialogue in Singapore over the weekend, where it was hoped the U.S. defense secretary and his Chinese counterpart

would meet an ease-rising tensions. But an awkward handshake was as good as it got after the Chinese rejected a private meeting.

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin had firm words for China, saying that Washington would not accept coercion and bullying of allies and partners,

and warned the Chinese military against unprofessional intercepts by warplanes above the South China Sea following a close encounter with a U.S.

jet just two weeks ago. China's defense minister responded by accusing the U.S., without naming it, of meddling in other countries' internal affairs

and building up excessive military alliances in the Asia Pacific.

But despite the rhetoric and near misses, the Biden administration remains hopeful that there could be a potential thaw in U.S. -China relations and

that a meeting between President Biden and Chinese President Xi Jinping could happen in the near future. Anna Coren, CNN, Hong Kong.

[12:14:57]

ASHER: All right, still to come here on ONE WORLD, Senegal has seen some of the deadliest violence in recent memory. We'll explain what's behind it and

how it will affect the country's future, especially in the run up to next year's elections.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: Senegal's next presidential election isn't until February, but human rights activists say the government has already started a crackdown on

dissent. Clashes between opposition supporters and police have claimed at least 16 lives since Thursday. The latest unrest was sparked by the

sentencing of opposition leader Ousmane Sonko. His supporters took to the streets in protest. Some threw rocks and set tires on fire. Those caught in

the middle say it's the worst violence in decades.

Sonko, who was accused of corrupting the youth, was sentenced years in prison that will likely end any chance he has of running in next year's

presidential elections. And this weekend, the government cut off mobile internet service to stop what it called, what it's referring to as hateful

and subversive messages. Groups like Amnesty International are pleading with leaders to respect human rights and stop what they say is the

excessive use of force.

Let's get some perspective from within Senegal, where joined live now by freelance journalist Borso Tall. Borso, thank you so much for being with

us.

Senegal has been traditionally seen as a bastion for stability in West Africa. That image is being challenged right now. Aside from the crackdown

in terms of targeting Ousmane Sonko, we're also seeing a crackdown on other forms of dissent, arbitrary arrests, and also a crackdown in terms of

social media as well. You were in Dakar over the weekend. Just walk us through what you saw and what you heard.

BORSO TALL, FREELANCE JOURNALIST: Okay. Over the weekend, what we first see is what we've been seeing for the past few weeks, and more so what we've

seen escalating since Ousmane Sonko was sentenced to two years for having misconduct with a woman under the age of 21 at the time of the rape

accusation in Dakar. And so, what we have is a multiplication of fights, groups of people get together, to fight and just all over the city in Dakar

and all across the country altogether. So it's multiplied to die -- to bring some sort of distraction to the police forces. And we've seen a lot

of areas where the police forces are a minority and they run away from the population who run after them.

[12:20:07]

Now, how do they run after them? They're not running after them with real bullets, with guns and real bullets. They're running after the police

forces with stones, rocks, and the woods, like pieces of wood, anything that they can use, bricks, just to chase them away from the area where

they're fighting from. They burn tires. So, this is a clash between people who burn tires, who use rocks, and who use even curtain rods. I saw

somebody carry a curtain rod because that's the only way they have to express their anger towards the government, as opposed to police forces in

various forms and uniforms who come with first Lacrimogen is a tear gas and on top of that they use real bullets now. And they've killed so far more

than 16 people for the past few days.

And that is what's going on. Various areas of groups fighting, sometimes getting together in one big neighborhood, and it's just children dying. And

it's chaotic. Because, like you said, we don't know anything about this in Senegal. This is the first time that we've had this much chaos go on,

simply because a President has not said whether or not he would like to become president for the third time. And when the Constitution says clearly

that there is no way any president can become head of state more than two consecutive terms, so that is what's going on in Dakar, in Senegal right

now, something that needs to be known by everyone.

ASHER: So just in terms of Ousmane Sonko, I mean, he came third, I believe, in the 2019 elections. Obviously, he is considered to be the greatest

threat to Macky Sall, the president of Senegal, the current president of Senegal. From what I understand, because of these charges and because he

was convicted of quote, unquote, corrupting the youth, he cannot run again. He cannot stand in next year's presidential elections. Just explain to us

though why Ousmane Sonko is so appealing to young people in Senegal who want change, why has -- why have young people gravitated towards him as a

possible presidential figure?

TALL: Before young people, let me go back a little bit to a tradition that we have in Senegal called Masla in Wallachia-Longa. Put together, that

means talking in peace and finding solutions in peace together. So basically what's been happening in Senegal since independence is that

whatever bothers the country, whatever bothers people, we sit together and we discuss it and then we find solutions for decades and decades, whatever

happens.

Aside from, you know, various times of tension, what we have is just peaceful concentration, peaceful gatherings and peaceful talks until we --

when I say we, it's the people that I exchange with, the population, the young people, until they realized that A, any opponent to the new

president, to the current president, is put aside.

We have the example of Karim Wade first, who was the, who is the former president son, Abdoulaye Wade, who also wanted to run for president, is now

in exile for the past few years. We have in another example, which is Khalifa Sall, who's also an opponent, who was put in jail for some sort of

corruption allegations.

And seeing those two patterns, seeing those two elements coming one after the other, Sonko comes, is young, has the voice of young people, has the

message young people want to hear, is talking about ending dependency from colonial times. It's difficult to say this way, but a lot of people here

understand that international relations should be redefined as a win-win relation rather than just one country over another.

That's the mindset over here. So he comes with that mindset that we are going to work together to put Senegal first. He comes and talks about

promises to change the economy and to give chances to young people to have employment and a future. He comes and talks about equality in terms of

work, in terms of health, education, et cetera.

So this man comes to just change the whole narrative that young people have heard since they were born. And because of that, Macky Sall, who

surprisingly is fighting against this, while he fought for justice in the same situation when he was with Abdoulaye Wade in 2012, because that's how

he got into power. He came into power by fighting a third time. He came into power by having the support of the people.

And now, what we're seeing is that he's against the very people who stood for him, who died for him, because a lot of people died during the time of

Abdoulaye Wade's wish to become a president for the third time. And he is repeating every single step that the population fought against in 2020.

[12:25:05]

ASHER: Well. So everything is repeating --

TALL: And even adding because he's arresting more people. He has put in jail people of the opposition parties.

ASHER: Borso, let me ask you.

TALL: Yes.

ASHER: If Macky Sall announces or makes it very, very clear that he is going to attempt a very controversial third run at the presidency, you

know, third term, what happens? I mean, just in terms of the violence that we're seeing on the streets, how will that play out between now and next

year?

TALL: You mean to tell me if he decides to run for a third term?

ASHER: Yes, if he formally decides.

TALL: It will be chaos. It will be chaos. People will not accept it. People will just not accept it. So then not only are they fighting against a third

term, they're also requesting that Sonko, who is under illegal house arrest, because he has not been given an arrest warrant yet. He is in his

house with his family, with no connection, no access to his lawyers, no access to anyone, from activists to even civil society organizations, the

leaders, access to nobody. He is on his own right now, just, I suppose, because no one has access to him. And even his party, the closest to his

party, do not have access to him. He is just under illegal house arrest.

And this far, if Macky Sall comes and says that he is going to run for a third term, it will be a chaos that we have not witnessed yet in Senegal,

because people are very angry, very frustrated that their only hope to see this change, because we have what we call in French aternos (ph), which is

this just transition that we have after every second term for the past decade to see this change while they have to fight for it in 2012. It's

just a setback that no one in this population is willing to see happen right now.

ASHER: Right, right, right. I mean, what we're seeing on the streets in Dakar is very uncharacteristic for Senegal, just in terms of --

TALL: Yes.

ASHER: -- yes, just in terms of the perception that we have of Senegal in other parts of the world. But more so, we have to leave it there. I'm out

of time. I am out of time. I want to say thank you and we'll have you back on again as we move closer to those elections next year. Thank you so much,

Borso Tall.

TALL: Thank you.

ASHER: All right. Still to come, a deep dive into India's transportation sectors, the dangerous situation that happens when a crowded nation is

stuck with an aging infrastructure. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: Hello and welcome back to ONE WORLD. Let's catch up on the headlines.

Ugandan troops have discovered the bodies of 54 of their soldiers who were killed during last week's attack by the militant group Al-Shabaab. It

happened on an African Union base in Somalia, southwest of the capital. The discovery came as Ugandan forces recaptured the base from the Islamist

group. Al-Shabaab has been fighting Somalia's government since 2006.

In Afghanistan, police are investigating the suspected poisoning of nearly 80 students, mostly girls, at two different schools. The students were

taken to hospitals for treatment. At this point, officials are unclear about who's behind the incident, the motive, and the potential type of

poison that was used.

Peruvian authorities tell CNN Joran Van der Sloot will be extradited to the US later this week. He's the prime suspect in the unsolved 2005

disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway. Over the weekend, Van der Sloot was transferred to a different prison in Peru ahead of his

extradition set for Thursday.

All right. We are going to turn now to one of our main stories, the tragic train crash in India that took at least 275 lives. Crews have now cleared

off the tracks, allowing train traffic to resume in the Indian state of Odisha. The image of trains moving past the wreckage is certainly a

sobering one. Trains are a way of life in India. State run Indian railways carry 13 million people per day on tracks that were originally laid down in

the 1800s under British colonial rule. The rail system is in desperate need of upgrades. More than 16,000 people were killed in train accidents in

2021, many of those due to ageing tracks and bad signaling equipment.

But India's crumbling infrastructure includes much more than trains. A suspension bridge collapsed late last year plunged hundreds of people into

the water below, leaving at least 135 people dead. India's highways, trains, bridges and tunnels are woefully inadequate for the world's most

populous nation. The Indian government says it needs to invest $1.5 trillion into infrastructure improvements over the next decade. But many

analysts say the figure should actually be higher than that.

Time now for the exchange, joining me now is CNN's Transportation Analyst Mary Schiavo. She's a former inspector general in the U.S. Department of

Transportation. Mary, thank you so much for being with us. Obviously, it's early in terms of the investigation with how this train crash on Friday

actually occurred. But the belief, at this point, is that there was an error in the signaling system, some kind of error in the signaling system

that led one of the trains to switch tracks when it wasn't supposed to. Just explain to us how this happens.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: And India is not alone. These kinds of signaling accidents have happened in other countries, including

the United States within the past decade. So tracks vary dramatically from one track to another, from one country to another. And the most modern

train tracks are what are called smart tracks. The tracks have computer systems embedded in them, signaling that tells the conductors, tells train

engineers, tells dispatchers, tells really all the command of the train if the train can proceed ahead safely in what's called the next block. A block

is just a mile or two or longer of a train track that the train traveling over it is deemed to possess.

And that's how you travel safely for trains. They're allowed to travel block by block as long as that block is cleared. When there are errors in

the signaling system, those running the train, be it onboard the train or the dispatchers, can't know if that section of the track, if that block of

track is clear for the train. And the other problem that happens is if you have new information or a signaling decision to change a track location at

the very last minute, remember it can take a mile or two to stop a train. If it's a very heavy train, it can take several miles to stop the train.

[12:35:01]

So if the signaling was erroneous, and at the last minute the train was switched onto the track where there was a stationary train, and we know

that's true, this train was switched onto a track where another heavily laden freight train was parked, there would not have been time to stop the

train. Even if the people in the cabin of the train saw it, it's impossible because it takes, like I said, a mile or two to stop a train.

And so, the aging infrastructure is a big issue because with now modern tracks and modern train management systems, you can run it almost

seamlessly with computer controls and make accidents a thing of the past. But most of the world's rail systems don't have that. It's still a manual

system.

ASHER: So let me ask you this. The first thing that came to my mind when I read that it was likely a signaling error was, is there typically some kind

of a backup system? That is to say, if there is an error with the signaling, that there would be some kind of other system to alert the

trains. And I know you mentioned it takes a mile or two to stop a train to alert the trains that there is danger ahead.

SCHIAVO: Yes, there are signaling systems and they vary dramatically. And that's another problem worldwide is the train signaling systems are as

varied as the trains that run over them practically. But there are train signaling systems and usually there are a series of lights. It's a green,

red -- green, yellow, red. And that tells you if it's green, it means your block, the miles ahead on your track are clear. And you just let that train

fly at its speed limit. If it's yellow and green, that tells you, you have to slow down. If it's yellow, you have to slow down even more. And if it's

red, you must stop. But again, you might need a mile or two to stop. So there are signaling systems.

And the question is, in addition to the decision or the signal that said to put this train over on the siding where there was a parked freight train,

was there another malfunction in the signaling? And the signal may have been out a mile or two or even longer back of the track. It wouldn't have

been out right there. But yes, there are literally traffic lights for trains.

ASHER: So just in terms of the investigation, at this point, it's been three days since this horrific accident, what does the investigation look

like?

SCHIAVO: Well, first and foremost, they're going to be looking at the decision making on the track rights of way and the track clearances. In

other words, who made the decision or what made the decision if it was computer controlled? I suspect it was a human error. But because you have

to switch the train onto a siding and where this train was switched was on to a siding, it wasn't the main track. They're going to be looking at first

at who and when that decision was made. It was made at the very last minute then there really wasn't any way to avoid the disaster. But who and when

that was made, and if there were signaling problems in the signaling and warning systems.

And finally, they're gonna wanna look at that track. It's also, of course, possible that, you know, there was manipulation of the track or vandalism

of the track. That's happened in many countries around the world, including the U.S. But because people have already made statements that the decision

was made to put it onto that siding and it was a signaling error, probably looking at a terrible human error or signaling error and not a criminal

act.

ASHER: It is a tall order. I mean, this is a country that obviously was colonized by the British, and a lot of the railway systems, like actually

in my home country, Nigeria, were built during colonial rule, so a long, long time ago. And a lot of the system hasn't really been updated since

then. When you think about just how populous India is, we're talking about what, 1.4 billion people, we're talking about a country that relies heavily

on the railway, just in terms of connecting the rural areas to the sort of more heavily populated, dense urban areas.

You know, as I mentioned, just sort of coming to you, railways in India are really a way of life. Just how much of a tall order is it, just to consider

the level of upgrades that are needed across the country?

SCHIAVO: Huge. You have two huge frontiers. One is the size of India, which is massive compared to other nations, which, you know, in -- you know, in

the space of a decade did a major, you know, retooling and rebuilding of the railway system. For example, Japan, you know, back in the 60s and 70s

and their railways are wonderful, but they're a small landmass country. When you look at the size that they have to handle in India and the

population that they have to serve in the number of railways, it is a hugely expensive proposition.

Doing a comparison to the U.S., we have almost no passenger rail service other than in major cities, and yet it took the United States a couple

decades to upgrade to a system called positive train control, which is smart tracks and smart trains that can be automatically stopped.

[12:40:06]

They -- you know, we just now finished that. So when you think of applying that kind of a system to a country as huge as India, when they said it was

going to be not billions, but maybe trillions, I have to believe that. But it's very necessary because they rely on the rail so much. They don't have

other infrastructures. Although I will say they're aviation system is dramatically growing as well, but it really does not take the place of a

city-to-city train system. So they have a massive job in front of them.

ASHER: Mary Schiavo live for us. Thank you so much for coming on. We appreciate it.

All right, still to come here, the Mac, the iPod, and the iPhone were all game changers. Can Apple do it again? We are live at their headquarters in

Cupertino, California for what could be their next big thing. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: Get ready for an explosion of new candidates running for U.S. President. Former Vice President Mike Pence officially filed paperwork just

hours ago, launching his campaign for the White House and hoping to best his former boss, Donald Trump. Two other contenders are also expected to

jump into the race for the Republican nomination this week, North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum and former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie.

Christie has, of course, been one of the most vocal Republican critics of Donald Trump.

You may have noticed, there is only one woman in the Republican field so far, former U.N. Ambassador and South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley. On

Sunday night, Haley got a chance to talk to the nation as she took part in a CNN Town Hall. CNN's Jeff Zeleny has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR: I'm in this to win it.

JEFF ZELENY, CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley seeking to elevate her candidacy for president by

calling for consensus on polarizing issues like abortion.

HALEY: I think we can all agree on banning late-term abortions. I think we can all agree on encouraging adoptions and making sure those foster kids

feel more love, not less.

ZELENY: At a CNN Town Hall in Iowa, she broke with two Republican frontrunners on key foreign policy issues like Russia's invasion of

Ukraine.

HALEY: You can't be trustful of a regime that goes in and tries to take away people's freedoms. And for them to sit there and say that this is a

territorial dispute, that's just not the case, to say that we should stay neutral. It is in the best interests of America. It's in the best interest

of our national security for Ukraine to win. We have to see this through. We have to finish it.

[12:45:08]

ZELENY: She called out Florida Governor Ron DeSantis' legal battle with Disney as hypocritical.

HALEY: He went and basically gave the highest corporate subsidies in Florida history to Disney. But because they went and criticized him, now

he's going to spend taxpayer dollars on a lawsuit.

ZELENY: Haley also said former President Donald Trump and DeSantis have not been straight with voters about the fiscal solvency of Social Security and

other programs.

HALEY: I think it's important to be honest with the American people. We are in this situation. Don't lie to them and say oh, we don't have to deal with

entitlement reform. Yes, we do. Yes, we do. It's the reality. I'm always going to tell the truth. Is it going to hurt? Yes.

ZELENY: At 51, Haley has said she would bring a generational change to the White House. Asked whether she believes she would experience sexism as a

female candidate, she said this.

HALEY: None of my jobs have ever had a line going to the women's bathroom. Ever.

ZELENY: But she drew applause when she said it was time to break the presidential glass ceiling.

HALEY: I'm a big fan of women. We balance. We prioritize. We know how to get things done. I mean, honestly, we've let guys do it for a while. It

might be time for a woman to get it done.

ZELENY: The town hall put an exclamation point on a busy weekend of campaigning in the state that opens the Republican contest early next year.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Well, hello, Iowa!

ZELENY: With DeSantis joining some of his Republican rivals as they shook hands and introduced themselves to party activists.

DESANTIS: There is no substitute for victory. And we need to dispense with the culture of losing that has beset the Republican Party in recent years.

ZELENY: Trump was the only major candidate who declined an invitation to Senator Joni Ernst's annual Roast and Ride side of politics, where

motorcycles and barbeque come with the side of politics. Yet the former president looms large over the presidential race and sits at the center of

the choices facing Republicans as the campaign intensifies.

What's the balance in your party, do you think, of people who want to turn the page and move forward versus turn back to Donald Trump?

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): I think there are a lot of folks that want to move forward. I know that President Trump has a great base here. It is strong.

But at the same time, people don't want to hear about what has happened in the past, because we've had two years of a Biden administration that is

just destroying our nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: That was CNN's Jeff Zeleny reporting.

All right, still to come, Britain's Prince Harry takes on the U.K. tabloid press, this time in a London courtroom. Coming up, a preview of his

expected testimony. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: All right, Prince Harry is back in the U.K. to give evidence in his lawsuit over alleged phone hacking. His lawyers started laying out their

case at the High Court today against Mirror Group newspapers. The suit alleges the MGM group obtained private information by hacking phones and

using other illegal methods as well. His lawyer says the Duke of Sussex will give evidence in person tomorrow.

Joining us live now is CNN's Nada Bashir. So Prince Harry didn't show up today because of his daughter's birthday. What were the judge and the

defense lawyer's response to that?

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Well, there was certainly some frustration in court. There was a hope that if they were able to get through the opening

statements quickly enough, Prince Harry might well be able to give evidence on the first day of what is said to be a three-day hearing. It has to be

said that the claimant's legal representatives actually went on quite a bit longer than was anticipated or was allocated, and there wasn't, in fact,

time forever than today.

But there was certainly some frustration, the defense lawyers describing it as an extraordinary decision for Prince Harry first day, what is really a

highly watched legal proceeding here at London's High Court. But we did hear those opening statements from both sides, the claimants of course,

Prince Harry is amongst four representative claimants due to give evidence in the court, amongst more than 100 claimants total, putting forward this

lawsuit against the Mirror newspaper group. Now, as you said there, those allegations are focused on the illegal obtaining of information, private

information through phone hacking, through the interception of voicemail messages as well, as to the hiring private investigators, as well as other

unlawful means.

And we heard from Prince Harry's legal representative in Sherborn speaking in the court today. He said that there were 147 articles submitted in

support of Prince Harry's claim published between 1991 and 2011 featuring details which show in his words signs, telltale signs that this information

was obtained illegally, information about his private relationships as well as his own private activities. Zain.

ASHER: All right. Nada Bashir live for us there, thank you.

When football star Romelu Lukaku was a child, his family was so poor they had no TV to watch the Champions League games. Now, the Belgian striker is

playing in the Champions League final on Saturday. His club Inter Milan is taking on Man City for the crown. Our senior sports analyst Darren Lewis

travelled to Milan for this exclusive interview with him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMELU LUKAKU, INTER MILAN STRIKER: I have a very good memory, so I can remember perfectly all those years. You know, I remember like so many

finals that I wanted to watch that, you know, I couldn't. So, I'll go to school and go YouTube and watch them. Yeah.

DARREN LEWIS, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: In the computer class?

LUKAKU: Yeah, yeah, yeah, at the time. Like live stuff. Then they would let me in and then I'd go and watch. And then, I had my classmates telling me,

oh yeah, this happened. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw that, I saw that. You see nothing. Yeah. Oh, God.

But to be honest, to be in this position now, to have my family there, you know, it would be a beautiful thing because then it's like, I couldn't

watch, but now, you know, by the grace of God, I can play one, so it's a beautiful thing. You know, playing probably against the best team in the

world actually. So I just want to enjoy it, you know, to be honest.

LEWIS: Your grandfather, you said he's the most important person to you after your mom and dad, of course, if he's from the Congo.

LUKAKU: Yeah, sorry. Yeah.

LEWIS: What do you think of this moment?

LUKAKU: A lot. Yeah. The worst thing is when I see my son, I see so much of him, like I have a picture of my grandfather on my WhatsApp. And when I

look at my youngest son, he looks like him so much. So, you know, my grandfather -- yeah, for me, he was my number one. He was my number one. He

was my biggest fan, my biggest fan. So every time when I play -- yeah.

LEWIS: It's okay.

LUKAKU: Yeah, it's for him. It's for him.

LEWIS: You've gone through so much --

LUKAKU: Yeah.

LEWIS: -- in our careers. And sometimes people don't know the scale of the achievement.

[12:55:05]

LUKAKU: No, no.

LEWIS: When you get to a moment like this --

LUKAKU: It's for him all the time. All the goals I have scored and everything. I promise that I looked at my mom when I was 12. I did that. So

every time when I look at my mom and I see her in the stands, I'm like -- I look at him after every goal and I say, I did it. I did it. It doesn't

matter. Win or losses, I take it on my stride. This is real family issues. So you know, for me, he meant the world to me.

LEWIS: You mean the world to a lot of players, Romelu. I wish you all the best --

LUKAKU: Thank you.

LEWIS: -- for this final.

LUKAKU: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: That's a really beautiful, very emotional interview with Inter Milan Star Romelu Lukaku chatting with our Darren Lewis.

All right, thank you so much for watching ONE WORLD, I am Zain Asher. Amanpour is up next.

END