Return to Transcripts main page

One World with Zain Asher

Hamas: Political Chief Ismail Haniyeh Assassinated In Tehran; United Sates Says It Had No Advance Warning Of Haniyeh Killing; Middle East Turmoil's Impact On Presidential Campaigns; Future Of Hostages And Peace Process Unclear Now; How AI Can Be Designed For African Languages; Olympic Triathlons Go Ahead In The Seine; Aired 12-1p ET

Aired July 31, 2024 - 12:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:26]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST: All right. Coming to you live from New York, I'm Zain Asher.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. You are watching ONE WORLD.

Two back-to-back assassinations in two countries could push a region already on the edge closer to the brink.

ASHER: Yes. The killings just hours apart are fueling fears. Israel's war on Hamas could spread across the region or even beyond.

First, the death of Hamas' political leader in Tehran. Hamas says Ismail Haniyeh was killed after this meeting with Iran's newly elected president

and after attending his inauguration.

It says Haniyeh and his bodyguard were hit directly by a rocket in the room where he was staying in the Iranian capital.

GOLODRYGA: Haniyeh had been part of Hamas for decades and was taking part in the stalled ceasefire talks.

Hamas was quick to blame Israel, calling the killing of Haniyeh a, quote, Zionist strike. Israel has not confirmed or denied being behind the

assassination.

ASHER: But it does claim to have killed Hezbollah's most senior military commander in a drone strike in Lebanon's capital Beirut. That happened

hours earlier.

Israel says it was retaliation for Saturday's deadly rocket attack in the Israeli occupied Golan Heights.

Iran's ambassador to Lebanon is promising a harsh response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

The Iranian response is definitely coming. Therefore, the Israelis will receive the appropriate response to the terrorist operation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Already a red flag of revenge is being raised over Iran's holy city of Qom. The Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is vowing a

harsh and painful response to the killing.

The U.S. Secretary of Defense is urging caution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I don't think war is inevitable.

We're going to work hard to make sure that, you know, we're doing things to help take the temperature down and address issues through diplomatic means.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: We have reporters standing by across the globe on this story. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is in London for us.

But let's begin with Ivan Watson in Beirut, Lebanon.

Ivan, it's been 24 hours now since we've been covering that assassination that Israel has taken credit for of one of Hezbollah's top commanders.

What more are we hearing? We heard from the Lebanese Foreign Minister on our air earlier. What more if anything are we hearing from Hezbollah

directly?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, just personally speaking, I drove through that neighborhood moments -- minutes

before the assassination by Israel took place of that Hezbollah commander yesterday. So that came very close to me personally.

The condemnations have poured in, particularly of the Ismail Haniyeh assassination. They've come from Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, governments here in

the region, warning that this is really going to hurt efforts to negotiate a ceasefire to the end of the nine-month Gaza war that has been taking

place because Haniyeh was one of the chief interlocutors there.

And that has been expressed by none less than the Prime Minister of Qatar, who published this statement on social media, saying, how can mediation

succeed when one party assassinates the negotiator on the other side?

The response from the Iranian government at all different levels is are calls for revenge. The Iranian Supreme Leader saying that there must be

revenge. We had a harsh statement coming from Iran's mission at the United Nations, saying that there will be a form of retaliation in the form of

special operations, harder and intended to instill deep regret in the perpetrator.

And the foreign ministry has said that the U.S. is responsible for what it calls a heinous act of terrorism, the assassination of Ismail Haniyeh,

because it accuses the U.S. of supporting and being an accomplice of the Israeli government.

The U.S. Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, in an interview earlier today, he said that the U.S. was unaware and uninvolved in the attack and the

killing of Ismail Haniyeh.

And he also made an appeal for new efforts to negotiate a ceasefire to the ongoing Gaza war.

But as I mentioned, if you hear the response from the Prime Minister of Qatar, who has been a key moderator in the negotiating talks, it sounds

like hopes for any negotiated ceasefire have been torpedoed by these back- to-back assassinations.

[12:05:02]

Meanwhile, here in Beirut, where Israel has claimed responsibility for the killing -- for the attack on a senior Hezbollah official. There were

funerals today for some of the civilians killed in the Israeli airstrike.

Among those killed were 10-year-old, Hassan Fadlallah and his younger sister, 6-year-old Amira Fadlallah.

Here's what their uncle had to say about their killing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I called my mother, who told me that my sister, her children, and her husband were under their rubble.

I left work, got my family, and left to Beirut. As soon as I arrived to Beirut, I was told they were first looking for the children. Then we were

told that they were murdered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: Zain and Bianna, we're still waiting to hear back on a final statement from Hezbollah on the status of the targeted Hezbollah official,

Fuad Shukr, who was also wanted by the U.S. government with a $5 million bounty against him, have not heard an update from him.

But as it stands now, you have a country and a city here, very much on edge with now people looking to Tehran and its proxies throughout the region.

Hezbollah, the Houthis in Yemen, militias in Syria and Iraq, to see how they will respond to these back-to-back assassinations. Back to you.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. We've yet to get confirmation on Shukr's death from Hezbollah itself. We did hear from the IDF last night saying that they have

confirmation of his death. And obviously, this was in response to the murder of 12 children in the Golan Heights on Saturday.

The Israeli defense minister tweeting shortly after that strike that Hezbollah had crossed a red line.

Ivan Watson, thank you so much.

ASHER: Jomana Karadsheh, let me bring you in, because Ivan was just saying there that, look, the whole world, the entire region and pretty much the

whole world is now looking to Tehran, looking to Iran and its proxies in terms of how they're going to negotiate some kind of a response here.

The fact is, Haniyeh's murder, his assassination, took place on Iranian soil. That is hugely embarrassing for Iran. It shows a massive security

failure.

Just walk us through what they will do next, or what they will likely do next. Obviously, I know you don't have a crystal ball, but in terms of

making sure that they issue a strong deterrent, that is going to be their goal here.

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, I mean, the views, Zain, across the region, this is being viewed, the assassination of Ismail Haniyeh

taking place in Tehran. The events of the past 24 hours with also that targeted assassination as well inside Lebanon in the southern suburbs of a

senior Hezbollah commander. You are hearing from different capitals across the region. They are seeing this as a provocation.

But there is no doubt that what we saw taking place is a huge embarrassment for the Iranian regime, for its security, for its intelligence apparatus,

for the Revolutionary Guard.

Israel has made no secret of its intentions to go after Hamas' leadership. They said that back in October, no matter where in the world they may be.

So, how did this happen? And, you know, keeping in mind, well, of course, Israel has not taken responsibility for this assassination. Of course,

assumptions are now that it was responsible for the assassination of Ismail Haniyeh.

How did this happen? You know, considering this high-profile target, considering that Israel, in the past, has carried out attacks,

assassinations inside Iran, how did they manage to carry out this brazen attack?

And I think a lot of these questions will be answered when we know more about how this assassination took place in a country where information is

very tightly controlled. We are getting very little information about the attack from the Iranians.

They have said that it was an aerial -- an airborne-guided projectile that was -- that was the strike, but a lot of questions about how this all

happened.

But I think no doubt that this is a huge embarrassment for the regime, not only internationally, but also domestically.

And, of course, the big question right now is, what do they do next? Because they are in a position right now where they are going to have to

respond. Will it be Iran? Tehran responding? Will it be its proxies?

What shape, what form that response is going to take is the big question.

ASHER: I mean, listen, nobody wants a wider war, right? But you assassinate the leader of Hamas, and that really does put everything on the table.

[12:10:00]

Jomana Karadsheh live for us there. Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: And let's discuss more with Yossi Melman. He's an Israeli writer and journalist. And recently wrote an opinion piece about Israel's targeted

killing.

So, Yossi, it's been a while since we've seen you. Welcome back to the program.

Actually, you just published a piece and here's what you said. You concluded that the assassinations of Ismail Haniyeh and Fuad Shukr and

Tehran and Beirut demonstrate Israel's capabilities.

But the doctrine of targeted killing has become an end in itself rather than a way to achieve actual strategic goals.

Can you elaborate more as to your piece and the point you're making?

YOSSI MELMAN, ISRALEI WRITER AND JOURNALIST: Yes. Thank you for having me on your program.

Israel, for many, many years, used assassination attempts and doctrine as a -- as a -- as a -- as a mean to achieve strategic goals.

It seems to me that since the war in October the 7th, it turned into an end for itself. I'm afraid to say that assassinations became that Israelis are

using assassinations as an end for itself. They are in love with this method and don't see the wider picture.

I mean, it was impressive to have this intelligence both in the target in Beirut and the -- above all the target in Tehran. But what is the end game

of Israel?

And in that sense, I'm afraid that Israelis are becoming an addicted to assassinations because they don't see any other alternative.

So if it is supplemented by other means to achieve wider goals, strategic goals, most of Israelis would approve it.

But if it just assassinations and assassinations and assassinations, it will lead us to the danger of a regional conflict.

ASHER: So in terms of -- Zain here, Yossi. So in terms of the end game of Israel, I mean, we're coming up to the one year anniversary since October

7th. It's hard to imagine this war has been going on so long.

So, is Israel really any closer to achieving its strategic objectives in Gaza in terms of eliminating Hamas?

I mean, obviously, just because you kill, you and I both know, just because you kill Haniyeh doesn't mean that Hamas is any closer to being eliminated

because we've talked about the fact that -- we've talked about many times on this program, the fact that Hamas, its ideology still lingers even if

you assassinate the leaders.

So is Israel any closer to achieving its objectives in Gaza?

MELMAN: I don't think so. Israel is in that war for already 10 months on two fronts. I think that the chance of releasing the hostages in a prisoner

swap with Palestinian prisoners is becoming more distant, due to the two last assassination attempts in Beirut and in Tehran.

Israel has been using assassinations for many, many years. And it has found out that all these top leaders be as important as they are with using with

the most sophisticated weapons and precise intelligence still can be replaceable.

So the Israeli government is telling the world then, the Israeli public that the war will go on for many, many years.

And therefore, we are not near a suitable, reasonable solution, but actually for a prolonged war on two fronts for the time being, but it might

get out of hand.

And eventually, we will find ourselves in a regional war three months or two months or one month before the U.S. elections.

GOLODRYGA: So really striking and somber assessment.

ASHER: Right.

GOLODRYGA: But sadly, Yossi, you're not the only one with that view at this point, 10 months into the war, obviously for those in Israel and here in

the U.S.

I mean, these are two men that had U.S. blood on their hands as well, at the same time that the concern is, will this escalate into a much larger

conflict? And that is something that officials, on all sides, are hoping to avoid.

[12:15:05]

Yossi Melman, thank you so much.

MELMAN: Thank you.

ASHER: A lot -- a lot of people saying that retaliation is inevitable, but escalation isn't necessarily so.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And all concerns about some sort of miscalculation along the way as well.

ASHER: Right.

GOLODRYGA: Well, coming up for us, Washington's top diplomats and military men react to a Hamas -- react to the Hamas assassination and their message,

make its clear where the U.S. stands on this conflict.

ASHER: Plus, we're going to be diving into how the Middle East mess is impacting the U.S. presidential election, including a strange appeal by

Donald Trump in an effort to win the Jewish vote.

And Kamala Harris sends a message about her willingness to debate her rival.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As the saying goes, if you've got something to say

--

(CROWD CHANTING "SAY IT TO MY FACE")

HARRIS: Say it to my face.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: All right. I want to return now to our top story, the assassination of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. U.S. officials say they had no advanced knowledge of the attack that took place in Iran.

The U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin says, he does not think this has to lead to a wider war. But he also stressed that the U.S. will help Israel

defend itself if it is attacked.

The U.S. Secretary of State says the killing adds an extra urgency to ongoing talks to end the war in Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm not going to speculate on what impact any one event might have on that.

I've learned over many years, never to really speculate about that because we simply don't know.

What I do know is the enduring imperative of getting the ceasefire. And what I do know is we'll continue to work at that every day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Let's bring in CNN's Alexander Marquardt with more on the U.S. reaction.

So I think the big question, Alex, is how much did the U.S. know in advance in terms of this assassination of Ismail Haniyeh?

And also, is the U.S. a lot of people are asking themselves, is the U.S. sort of sleepwalking into a wider war? Just walk us through your thoughts

on that.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, from everything we've learned in speaking to sources and what's been said

publicly, it does not appear that the U.S. had any kind of advance warning. That's one of the first questions that we will ask of U.S. officials if

there is an Israeli strike, like the one we saw yesterday against the top military commander for Hezbollah, which the U.S. did get an advance warning

for.

[12:20:59]

This one that we saw in Iran today, if indeed Israel was behind it, which has not been confirmed by Israeli or U.S. officials is, of course, much

more sensitive.

So for the time being, it does not appear that the U.S. got any kind of heads up.

But, Zain, to your other point, we are obviously entering a very difficult and dangerous moment here. Where in the span of less than 24 hours. There

appear to have been two Israeli strikes against senior leaders for proxy groups of Iran, one of them taking place in Iran itself.

So you essentially have all of these extremely combustible elements coming together at the same time.

Now you will remember, just a few months ago in April, Israel struck and killed IRGC commanders in an embassy complex in Damascus.

Iran took that as their territory and mounted this huge offensive of 300 ballistic cruise missiles and drones fired at Israel that Israel managed to

fight back along with the help of U.S. and others.

And now this is arguably a more dangerous situation because of the targets themselves and because the sensitivities around Israel perhaps carrying out

this strike in the heart of Tehran itself against a guest of the Iranian regime who is there for the inauguration ceremony of the new president.

So certainly entering a very dangerous territory here. I don't think that U.S. officials are sleepwalking into it.

I think they're very aware of the -- of the dangers here and certainly questions now as to what the U.S. is telling the Israelis in terms of what

they hope they will do in the near future to possibly avert a wider crisis.

ASHER: All right. Alexander Marquardt live for us there. Thank you so much.

Well, the rising tensions in the Middle East are rapidly becoming a key campaign issue in the U.S. election.

ASHER: All right. Even before the assassination in Iran, Kamala Harris spoke out Tuesday about the attacks being traded between Israel and the

Hezbollah across the border with Lebanon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: I wanted to address what happened over the last few hours in terms of the Middle East. And it's very clear Israel has the right to defend

itself.

And I unequivocally support Israel's right to remain secure and to defend the security of Israel.

What we know in particular is that it has the right to defend itself against the terrorist organization, which is exactly what Hezbollah is.

But all of that being said, we still must work on a diplomatic solution to end these attacks and we will continue to do that work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Now it is worth recalling that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met with both Harris and Donald Trump and the president himself

last week during his U.S. visit.

Since that visit, Trump has repeatedly stated that he thinks he should win the Jewish vote, even going so far as to say that Harris dislikes Jews. A

bizarre statement considering the fact that Harris' husband, Doug Emhoff, is Jewish himself.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny has been looking into the impact of the Middle East on the race from the swing state of Michigan.

Jeff, I think it's fair to say the least surprising outcome out of all of this is that Donald Trump is saying Jews that don't vote Republican are bad

Jews. He's been saying this for a number of years now.

But in terms of what we're hearing from now, candidate Harris, aside from her statement about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, an issue that she has

spoken out about as vice president as well, it appears her policies seem very in line with the Biden administration at this point too.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF UNITED STATES NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Her policies absolutely are in line with the Biden administration. She is part

of the Biden administration. There is no daylight on U.S. policy, but there is a different emphasis.

Bianna, as you know, we heard from the vice president last week, after she met with the Israeli prime minister in Washington, and she certainly spoke

with much more empathy and talked about the impact on civilians in Gaza.

That is, at least was received and heard differently among many Muslim and Arab American voters.

Of course, many of whom live here, not far from downtown Detroit and Dearborn. We've been spending time here talking with those voters and many

others in Michigan that are making up a key part of the new Harris coalition.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHARITY DEAN, KAMALA HARRIS SUPPORTER: It feels like we got one shot because it's not just the historical component here, it's also the

alternative.

ZELENY: For Charity Dean, the weight of the presidential race is suddenly a bit heavier.

DEAN: It's not just, man, we have an opportunity to make history, it's also, oh my gosh, what happens if we don't?

ZELENY: A week after Kamala Harris clinched the democratic nomination --

HARRIS: When we fight, we win.

ZELENY: -- the whirlwind of excitement, coursing through the party, is giving way to the urgent work of building a Harris coalition.

After a year of trying to shore up, President Biden's fraying won.

DEAN: It's a refreshing and new energy that we didn't have previously. That absolutely is generating interest from both that we're not interested in a

Biden-Trump race, but now are definitely interested now that we have the vice president on the top of the ticket.

[12:25:12]

ZELENY: Reverend Charles Williams of King Solomon Baptist Church in Detroit saw exhaustion over a Trump-Biden rematch vanish overnight.

CHARLES WILLIAMS, SENIOR PASTOR, KING SOLOMON BAPTIST CHURCH: Instead of having something to vote against, now we have something to vote for.

ZELENY: When we met Williams earlier this year, inside his historic church, his weariness was clear.

WILLIAMS: It's like two -- just the two old white guys duking it out.

ZELENY: Did it turn just like a switch?

WILLIAMS: When Joe Biden was in office, in all of his greatness, it was like churning molasses. The next day, all of the memes went away. The next

day, all of the joke videos went away.

REP. HALEY STEVENS (D-MI): We can be a little fired up for that, I think, right?

ZELENY: Here in Michigan, the contours of the new race, are settling in. As democratic Congresswoman Haley Stevens heard firsthand as she knocked on

doors in her district.

STEVENS: How are you feeling about the switch with Biden to Harris?

REUBEN MAXBAUER, MICHIGAN VOTER: Feel good. Yes.

STEVENS: Energy's up, right?

ZELENY: Reuben Maxbauer invited us inside to talk. He's excited for Harris, but wants to learn more about her positions, especially her policy on

Israel.

MAXBAUER: I don't think she has a clearly enough defined position, at least that we're aware of, that I can say whether she -- whether she makes us

comfortable or not.

ZELENY: As she continued her walk, Stevens acknowledged that is one of the lingering challenges for Harris and Democrats in Michigan.

STEVENS: I'm not going to sugarcoat. There's also still a lot of passions and tensions and emotions around the Middle East.

ZELENY: A few miles away, signs of frustration over Israel's war in Gaza are clear.

(CHANTING "CEASEFIRE NOW")

ZELENY: The Muslim and Arab community in Dearborn have largely broken with Biden.

But Mayor Abdullah Hammoud now sees a potential opening.

ABDULLAH HAMMOUD, MAYOR OF DEARBORN, MICHIGAN: Now with Vice President Harris, you see a renewed spark, especially amongst a younger population, a

more diverse coalition, and an opportunity to rebuild that coalition that helped with President Biden over the top.

ZELENY: So can the Vice President win Michigan without Dearborn and the Arab American vote?

HAMMOUD: I'm not a gambling man, but if I was, I wouldn't want to take that gamble.

If Vice President Harris wants to be successful, that's a coalition that she needs a part of her in her corner to help topple down Trump once again.

ZELENY: Trump's carried Michigan in 2016, along with Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

But in 2020, all three flipped. A Biden blue wall that led to victory. That burden now rests with Harris.

DEAN: Are you here for our event?

ZELENY: And her ardent supporters like Dean.

DEAN: There was either fear or excitement. And I think the excitement overcrowded the fear and that fear has turned now into excitement.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: There is no question there is an excitement and level of enthusiasm that simply did not exist when President Biden was at the top of the

ticket.

Far less skepticism to among Muslim and Arab American voters here in Michigan and across some other swing states.

Of course, it is very much an open question as the foreign policy develops really hour by hour how that impacts domestic politics.

We do know that the Dearborn Mayor told us he wants to meet with Vice President Harris and hear her policy proposals before making any

endorsements or recommendations to members of his community.

Just another reminder here that not all domestic politics in the U.S. is controlled here. Certainly it's affected by events across the globe,

including, of course, this legislative threat in the Middle East.

Bianna?

ASHER: Yes. There's a lot more energy now behind her in Michigan, but we'll see what happens in November.

It's impossible to know how it's going to play out until we get through November.

Jeff Zeleny live for us there. Thank you so much.

All right. Kamala Harris's campaigns says she is preparing for face-to-face interviews this week with the top contenders to be her running-- we were

just talking about this.

GOLODRYGA: We were. We're always talking about this all day, all week.

ASHER: I have my views, but we are going to have a bet.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, OK. After the show.

Harris plans a tour of several swing states next week after revealing her VP choice. She was in Atlanta, Georgia last night for a rally. The crowd of

around 10,000 people roared with approval as Harris challenged Trump to debate her.

Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: So he won't debate, but he and his running mate sure seem to have a lot to say about me.

I do hope you'll reconsider to meet me on the debate stage.

Because as the saying goes, if you've got something to say, say it to my face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Harris' rally had some celebrity appeal as well, featuring a performance by hip-hop star, Megan Thee Stallion. The artist who has close

to 15 million followers on TikTok, made sure her social media army knew where she was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:30:08]

MEGAN THEE STALLION, AMERICAN RAPPER: What's up, buddies, this is your girl Megan Thee Stallion, aka the hot girl coach, reporting live with the future

president of the United States.

HARRIS: Hey, everybody.

MEGAN THEE STALLION: What do you have to say to the American people?

HARRIS: We are not going back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: She's trying to take our job.

One last political note in about half an hour. From now, Donald Trump's going to be sitting down for a Q&A session at the National Association of

Black Journalists, NABJ Convention, coming up.

GOLODRYGA: And we'll be covering what he says there.

Meantime for us, the deaths of prominent Hamas and Hezbollah leaders could signal a dangerous new era of tension in the Middle East.

We'll have a look at the timing of these attacks after the break.

ASHER: And athletes compete in the River Seine after weeks of speculation over whether or not its pollution level is safe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: All right. This is in to CNN. The body of Hezbollah's military commander, Fuad Shukr, who has been found in southern Beirut. That's

according to a Lebanese security source.

GOLODRYGA: We also know at least four other people were killed Tuesday night when the Israeli military struck a residential building in Beirut.

Israel blamed Shukr for the weekend attack that left a dozen young people dead in the Golan Heights.

ASHER: And concerning the assassination of Hamas' top leader in Iran, one question that keeps coming up that no one seems to have the answer to is,

why now?

[12:35:00]

Ismail Haniyeh had been in the public eye for years. He was last seen at the inauguration of Iran's new president and played a prominent role in the

Israel-Gaza ceasefire talks.

ASHER: Hostage families are anxious to find out what will happen to their loved ones and what this assassination means for that process.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON POLIN, FATHER OF ISRAELI-AMERICAN HOSTAGE: I really don't even know what's to make of this. Look, we're obviously living in a very tense

region. Hundred and fifteen hostages have been held for 299 days. Tomorrow is day 300.

But the region is suffering. Everybody in this region is, in a way, being held hostage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Everyone in this region is in a way being held hostage.

Time now for The Exchange and look at where we go from here.

Joining us now is Jonathan Conricus. He's a former spokesperson for the Israel Defense Forces and now a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense

of Democracies.

Jonathan, thank you so, so much for being with us.

So some might look at this assassination and say, look, by taking out Haniyeh, if indeed Israel is responsible, and I have to be very careful

with what I say here. But if indeed Israel is responsible, by taking out Haniyeh, Israel wins in one way but loses in a hundred other ways.

Obviously, the way in which Israel stands to gain from assassinating Haniyeh is very obvious. But you also have to think about the various risks

as well. There's ceasefire negotiations. There's the risk of an all-out war.

And, Jonathan, I know that you care deeply about the fate of the hostages as well. And you have to think about how much what happened here will be a

setback for them.

Just explain to us why now was the right time for this.

JONATHAN CONRICUS, FORMER IDF SPOKESMAN: Yes. Well, Shalom, thank you for having me.

It's -- you know, it's -- I think it's easy. It's intellectually easy to look at it that way, but I would want to offer a different perspective. I

know that it's not the conventional one, and I know that many people will disagree with what I say.

But, you know, Israel, in the bigger picture, I think has Hamas on the back foot and has made significant gains, military against Hamas.

Our biggest lack of achievement, so far, is that there are still 115 Israeli hostages held by Hamas, and it is Hamas that is refusing to agree

to a ceasefire.

And it is the same Ismail Haniyeh who now is being represented in international media as some kind of modern-day Muslim Mahatma Gandhi, who

is a dealmaker and someone who is, no, this is a terrorist who was one of the architects and the enablers of the October 7 massacre. That is his

legacy.

He is not someone who was busy doing positive things. He is one of the reasons why there still isn't a hostage deal, because he and Yahya Sinwar

have been refusing to hand over the hostages and end the fighting and to surrender and stop the fighting,

And all the war could have ended if Hamas had, and of course, attacked Israel on October the 7th, then if they would have decided to say enough is

enough, and let's save the suffering of the region, and let's return Israeli hostages, but they decided not to.

And to close, I'll just say that, you know, this assassination, which I believe was done by Israel, but I cannot say so officially, I think may

also drive home the message to Yahya Sinwar and what's left of Hamas leadership, that this train is only going one way.

It either goes towards the fate of Ismael Haniyeh and Mohammed Deif, who are no longer going to be terrorizing anybody on this earth. Or you do a

deal, and that is what the options that Hamas have currently.

GOLODRYGA: Well, it does seem now it's up to Mohammed Sinwar and Yahya Sinwar, like his brother appear to be the only two leaders right now in

terms of decision makers at this point.

We'll see who and when Hamas decides to replace Haniyeh's death.

With its notable, Jonathan, that he was assassinated in Iran and not Qatar, where it's clear Israel, if Israel we're assuming, is behind this

assassination, would have had the opportunity to do the same.

Also notable is the message, the tweet posted on X from the Qatari Prime Minister, saying political assassination and continued targeting of

civilians in Gaza while talks continue leads us to ask, how can mediation succeed when one party assassinates a negotiator on the other side? Peace

needs serious partners in a global stance against the disregard for human life.

Given that and given where things are right now, I view that as somewhat of a muted response from the Qatari Prime Minister. He didn't say talks are

over.

In fact, I think that he had more contentious posts and response following some condemnation from Israeli officials earlier in this war against Qatar

than what we saw take place with the assassination of Haniyeh.

[12:40:11]

Does that suggest to you that perhaps there is still hope for talks?

CONRICUS: Yes, there is hope. And there will be hope until the last hostage is returned is what will continue relentlessly to operate on the ground and

in diplomatic circles to get them back.

And allow me to curb my enthusiasm about the statement of the Qatari official. Because so far the Qataris have failed to deliver on what they

are supposed to deliver.

They're supposed to deliver Hamas and they're supposed to be conduits to a deal. And so far, they have not only not allowed access to Israeli hostages

by the Red Cross and to deliver medicines, which they specifically said that they would take care of and they would provide medicine, life, crucial

medicine to Israeli hostages hasn't happened.

And so far we've seen Hamas' Yahya Sinwar playing hardball against Israeli demands, American demands. And what Qatar themselves have been telling

Hamas, listen, this is the deal. Let's go ahead.

And so far, Qatar is not delivering. And I think that's -- there are very - - it's an underwhelming performance.

I'm happy that Qatar is not taking a more hostile stance when it comes to the assassination of Yahya Sinwar.

But let's be clear, had it not been for Qatar enabling Hamas safe refuge in Doha offices and international standing and the facilities, Hamas would be

in a totally different position and they wouldn't have the clout or the ability to do the October 7 attack and to threaten Jews and kill Jews.

So I wouldn't, you know, treat the Qataris with so much respect. There are any interesting situations, but had it not been for them, their incitement

through Al Jazeera and their support of Hamas leadership in Doha, the Middle East would be a much better place and Hamas wouldn't be as a potent

of an enemy that it was before October the 7th.

ASHER: That aside -- though, Jonathan, and we do have to leave it there. That aside a lot of family members of hostages are really, really worried

about what this assassination means for them.

I mean, it's just so painful. Bianna spent time in Tel Aviv talking to a lot of these families.

It's so painful to think about what they're going through. It's essentially emotional torture what they're going through and the glimmer --

CONRICUS: It is.

ASHER: -- of hope that they had has now faded.

How long before we don't know? But it certainly has faded.

CONRICUS: I'm not sure that it has.

ASHER: Jonathan, we do have to leave. I would love to talk to you again about this but go ahead. Go ahead quickly.

CONRICUS: OK.

ASHER: We have to leave it there. I'm so sorry. We are out of time.

CONRICUS: We're doing a rally --

ASHER: We'll have you on the show again, I promise, because we are out of time.

Thank you so much, Jonathan --

CONRICUS: Thank you.

ASHER: -- Conricus, former IDF spokesperson.

GOLODRYGA: Thank you, Jonathan. We'll have you back.

And I'll be right back in about 15 minutes with "AMANPOUR."

ASHER: For now, ONE WORLD continues after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:45:15]

ASHER: All right. For many of us, the use of AI has become part of our daily lives through virtual assistance like Siri and, of course, Alexa and

navigation apps on our phone as well. The technology, however, is not as accessible across the African continent, but a team in Johannesburg is

trying to change that by creating an AI tool for African languages. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PELONOMI MOILOA, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, LELAPA AI: In the Southern African context, only eight percent of South Africans speak English at

home. And yet, all internet services or digital services available through mobile, whether that be loading airtime, checking your bank balance, buying

electricity, checking the weather, all of those services are not available to the majority of South Africans.

We're talking about hundreds of millions of people that we could potentially touch if we're able to enable access through digital technology

through local languages.

My name is Pelonomi Moiloa and I am CEO and co-founder of Lelapa AI. Lelapa AI was founded in 2022. And our mission is to invent their technology for

Africans to communicate digitally in our languages.

The internet is a very useful thing, but it is virtually useless if people are unable to interact with it because it does not speak the right

language.

So Lelapa AI was founded out of three main reasons. People leave the continent to pursue opportunities elsewhere. We wanted to ensure we had a

place for those people to return to in order to invest that energy and talent into solving problems here on the ground.

The second reason was that we know that AI has the potential to bring about great positive change on the African continent. And we wanted to make sure

that we were part of using AI to solve those problems.

And the third reason was that AI that is created in the West, it's just not created for our context. They don't know the places of our names of our

people. And that is a problem if we're trying to use that technology to broaden access to digital services.

Some of our big success is creating that home for African AI. And the fact that we've managed to put together a team, get VCs and personal investors

behind that mission to take it forward is quite amazing.

We have services available in South African English, which includes a variety of accents because people are forced to speak English because they

cannot speak their own languages. We have services in Sesotho, in IsiZulu and Africans.

We have chat bots in particular municipalities assisting with the administration of electricity usage and payment of prepaid electricity. And

we're working on getting our language technology into more services. But to be honest, we've still got a long way to go.

There are over 2,000 languages on the African continent.

Currently, we're operating in four languages. The ultimate dream is for us to cover all of them, but given the resources that we have, that is not

possible.

So, ideally, we would be looking at around 30 of the main languages that cover the largest groups of people on the African continent, giving them

access to digital technologies that they otherwise would not be able to access now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:17]

ASHER: All right. There is jubilation in Paris today and not just among the Olympic medal winners.

The men's and the women's triathlons went ahead this morning after days of intense speculation over whether the swimming portion could actually take

place safely.

France had actually spent a billion dollars, a billion dollars, cleaning up the River Seine.

But even as late as Tuesday night, it wasn't certain that the pollution levels would be low enough for the athletes to compete safely.

CNN's Patrick Snell joins us live.

Now, Patrick, this was a big deal for the city. The fact that they managed to pull this off because every time there's rain, a lot of the grime and

the dirt from the streets goes straight into that river.

PATRICK SNELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Right.

ASHER: So a big deal, a big win for Paris.

SNELL: Yes. Big deal. The E. coli levels. When it rains hard, that the E. coli levels go up. That had been a major, major concern, of course, for

organizers and the athletes.

And remember, Zain, a swimming in the River Seine had been illegal for a century until the build up to these games.

But the triathlons, as you say, did go ahead in the River Seine earlier today. There had been more rain in Paris overnight, but officials deeming

the water quality sufficient for competition on this Wednesday.

They actually took the decision at 3.30 A.M. local time there in the French capital.

The men's event, that had already been pushed back by 24 hours due to concerns over the water quality.

But the women's event going ahead are scheduled on this Wednesday and a really impressive victory, Zain, for home-grown favorite, Cassandre

Beaugrand, first French athlete now she is in history to win the triathlons Olympic gold.

The 27-year-old. This is really cool for her. Why? Because she actually grew up just a few miles from the heart of the capital city Paris.

She crossed the line in one hour, 54 minutes, 55 seconds, France's sixth gold medal.

And giving those fans who'd been lining in the street since 3:00 in the morning, a huge cheer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASSANDRE BEAUGRAND, FRENCH TRIATHLETE: I was realizing that the chance I have like to raise the Olympics at home and in front of all my family, like

my close people. So yes, that's special, very special.

JULIE DERRON, TRIATHLON SILVER MEDALIST: The swimming was fine during the race. We know that they took samples this morning. They take a little time

to analyze, so we don't know the results, obviously.

And, yes, we all trust the authorities and the organizers that they keep us safe. And so we had a safe race today, I'm sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNELL: Definitely an element of trust there as indicated with that sound.

Now, after that came a sensational sprint finish in the men's.

And what a moment for Team GB's Alex Yee. He won silver at the Tokyo Games, three years ago now. And the 26-year-old going one batter this time after

finishing just six seconds clear of New Zealand rival, Hayden Wilde.

Yee's time, one hour, 43 minutes, 33 seconds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX YEE, TRIATHLON GOLD MEDALIST: For us, you know, I have to have probably the most beautiful venue of any race in the Olympics. And I guess

that came with a small penalty of the risk of the sand being dirty.

But I think, you know, the big difference between, you know, a lot of the challenges that we've had before is that, you know, the government's been

proactive in trying to clean the water rather than, you know, in other countries where we're seeing the opposite happening.

So I think, you know, fair play to France and the government that, yes, we're able to hopefully create a legacy and for that to live on, you know,

post our race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNELL: That is one proud Londoner there. And our congrats to him, Zain.

Yes. They did go in the end in the triathlon events. We'll monitor any fallout if there is any ensuing fallout from the next few hours. We'll stay

across it.

ZAIN: It all worked out in the end.

Patrick Snell live for us there. Thank you so much.

And it was a night to remember for Simone Biles and Team USA's female gymnast. They put on a remarkable display in the women's team finals,

taking the gold medal with a decisive victory

[12:55:04]

Biles, now the most decorated American gymnast has been calling these games her, quote, redemption tour after she withdrew from the Tokyo Games back in

2021.

Speaking after the team final in Paris, she described what she was going through or what rather was going through her mind this time around.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIMONE BILES, WON 5TH CAREER OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL: At the beginning of the day, I started off with therapy this morning, so that was super exciting.

And then I told her I was feeling calm and ready. And that's kind of exactly what happened.

But after I finished vault, I was relieved. I was like, whew, because at least no flashbacks or anything, but I did feel a lot of relief.

And as soon as I landed vault, I was like, oh yes, I'm definitely, we're going to do this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Were' going to do this. And she did do it with eight Olympic medals now to her name. And more events still to come, she really is the greatest

of all time.

All right. And this just in to CNN, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, is expected to give a statement from military headquarters in

about 10 or 15 minutes or so from now.

We've not been told the exact topic that he's going to be speaking on. But the remarks, of course, come after Iran says that Hamas leader Ismail

Haniyeh was assassinated in Tehran.

Once again, Benjamin Netanyahu is going to be speaking in about 10 minutes or so from now. We will, of course, bring you his statement in the next

hour.

All right. That does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. I am Zain Asher. Appreciate you watching. "AMANPOUR" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END