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One World with Zain Asher
Soon: Biden To Speak On Prisoner Swap With Russia; Blinken: Whelan, Gershkovich, Kurmasheva On way Back To United States; Biden Makes Remarks On Prisoner Swap With Russia; Biden On Multi-National Exchange Deal: Relationships Matter; 24 Detainees Freed In Prisoner Swap Between Russia And West; Turkish Source: Prisoner Swap Between Russia And West Is Complete; Aired 12-1p ET
Aired August 01, 2024 - 12:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:28]
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST: All right. Coming to you live from New York, I am Zain Asher.
We do, of course, begin with some major breaking news. We are waiting any moment now. U.S. President Joe Biden is going to speak. He's going to
deliver mark -- remarks about the major prison exchange that is taking place right now that has freed four Americans who have been held in Russia.
Among those who are now coming home, former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan, he's coming home also. "Wall Street Journal" reporter, Evan Gershkovich as well.
Remember, both of these men had been accused of spying, something that both of them have long denied.
Also set free were two Russian-Americans who have been critical of Vladimir Putin. All of them now in the U.S. custody after being flown from Moscow to
Ankara.
The families, specifically of Paul Whelan and Evan Gershkovich, are at the White House right now. They're meeting with President Biden. President
Biden, as I mentioned, is about to speak any moment now.
This is the largest prisoner swap between Washington and Moscow since the end of the Cold War. It includes 26, 26 different individuals from seven
different countries.
I want to get more now in terms of reaction from Washington. Joining us live now is Priscilla Alvarez.
Priscilla, this is a major feat of U.S. diplomacy. We're learning new details here, particularly that President Biden was actually working the
phones to secure this release in the hours before he abandoned his reelection bid.
Just really shows you just how much of a priority this was for him, both personally and also for his legacy as well. What more do we know at this
point?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that they were engaged in intense diplomatic negotiations, certainly in the last few weeks and
days, but also over the last few years.
As you mentioned there, only an hour before he put out a letter saying he was withdrawing from the presidential race, just a couple of weeks ago, is
also when he was working the phones to try to secure a deal.
Again, what we could anticipate hearing from the president today is just how important his own relationships with world leaders have been in trying
to secure the release of Americans wrongfully detained in Russia.
But before I get to that, of course, if you recall in December of 2022, with the release of Brittney Griner, the president at the time acknowledged
that not included in that deal was Paul Whelan.
And he said at the time that the family likely had mixed emotions that day. And ever since then, administration officials have been trying to include
him in a deal because they had hoped that would be the case with Griner and it wasn't. And so that is what we are seeing come to fruition today.
Now, in a statement that the president released before we hear him speak directly, he said, quote, the deal that, excuse me, that secured their
freedom was a feat of diplomacy.
All told, we've negotiated the release of 16 people from Russia, including five Germans and seven Russian citizens who are political prisoners in
their own country. Some of these women and men have been unjustly held for years, all have endured unimaginable suffering and uncertainty.
And, importantly, here the president says, today, their agony is over.
Of course, the president has been meeting with family members of the Americans released at the White House this morning. And we will hear from
him directly in only moments.
This is an approach that he also took with the release of Brittney Griner, where he, excuse me, also met with her family.
ASHER: Yes. And we're actually getting news. I just got word from my producer in my ear that I could just say, Antony Blinken, essentially
saying that three Americans, all three Americans are now on their way back to the United States.
So you could just imagine just the level of relief and joy for the families of those three Americans.
I do want to bring in Matthew Chance, Priscilla. Do stand by.
Matthew Chance. Do we have Matthew Chance?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: We do.
ASHER: Matthew Chance and Alex Marquardt as well. Thank you both for joining us.
So, Matthew, it is important to remember that this is not a like for like, just in terms of the exchange here. You're essentially swapping journalists
for hardcore criminals.
Just explain to us how much concern there is about what kind of precedence that sets going forward.
CHANCE: Yes. Well, I mean, look, it's a tactical victory, definitely, for the Biden administration. And it's great news for Evan Gershkovich and his
family, and the family of Paul Whelan and all the others that are being released.
But strategically, I think it sends a really dangerous message to Vladimir Putin. And I think it hands Putin and the Kremlin a victory for its policy
or its strategy of essentially taking bargaining chips in the form of journalists, human rights activists, and whoever else. And then using them
to extract concessions from the United States and from the West. And that's exactly what happened.
[12:05:26]
I mean, it's kind of what happened, you know, when, you know, President Biden negotiated the swap of Brittney Griner, the U.S. and basketball star,
for Viktor Bout, the world's most notorious arms trafficker, you know, it was really after that that the Kremlin stepped up its policy of taking
bargaining chips and using them to extract concessions and to get other people released from the United States.
So, yes, extremely good news for those people that have been released right now. It's a reflection of the sort of hardline, real politic of dealing
with Kremlin.
They want a lot for the return of these individuals. But there was definitely an ethical decision that had to be made.
Vadim Krasikov, for example, is an FSB colonel. He's going to be returned to Moscow even after he was convicted of murdering a Chechen dissident in
broad daylight in a park in the center of the German capital.
It must have taken an enormous amount of, you know, compromising sort of activity or compromise, rather, on the part of the Germans to surrender him
and agree to return that convicted murderer back to -- back to Russia.
And so, yes, this is great news, but it has come at a very high cost.
ASHER: Alex, let me bring you in, because I think a lot about Paul Whelan in this particular moment, because his time has finally come, Alex.
And you think about what he's been through in terms of being left behind during Trevor Reeds' release, being left behind during Brittney Griner's
release.
And just him and his family talking about feeling abandoned during those moments. The Biden administration has come out and said multiple times,
this isn't about favoritism. This isn't about sort of choosing one American over the other.
They talked about the fact that the Russians were treating Paul Whelan's case very differently from Brittney Griner's case.
Just explain to us what changed in terms of that dynamic.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly what changed is this became a much bigger deal beyond just Russia and the
United States. I think there was an acceptance early on here in the U.S. that the U.S. simply didn't have enough to get its big -- to get the
prisoners it wanted out of Russia.
So it had to go elsewhere and look around the world. This is literally what happened by State Department officials, intelligence officials. They
started talking to allies and partners around the world about Russians who they had in their -- in their custody so that they could create this
multilateral deal.
You're absolutely right. It must have been absolutely crushing. We know it was for Paul Whelan.
I mean, Paul called our colleague, Jennifer Hansler, multiple times from that Russian penal colony, and he really said two things, you know, I do
feel like I'm being left behind and he was obviously horribly torn up about that. But at the same time, happy to see his fellow citizens being released
and didn't begrudge them that.
I think there was a lot of debate when the Griner-Bout trade happened, you know, debate whether or not there shouldn't have been more American
prisoners released alongside Brittney Griner because Viktor Bout was such a valuable prisoner for the Russians, at least.
And so after Viktor Bout was released, then the Russian goal was to get Krasikov released by the Germans. And that was a really hard task for the
Americans.
They really had to apply a lot of pressure on German Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, to release Krasikov. And then when he finally relented, that was
just one part of this huge deal.
But Paul Whelan was very much at the top of the list alongside Evan Gershkovich, you know, because he had been in prison for so long. He was
arrested back in 2018. He's been in custody for the past five and a half years, convicted in 2020 to 16 years.
And he's been serving in a really, really tough penal colony and suffering all kinds of health issues.
And so it's obviously a tremendously happy day to see him and Evan Gershkovich on their way back to the United States alongside many others.
And I should just note, finally, you know, this is not a one-for-one deal. It's a little bit lopsided. Of the 24 prisoners, you have 16 who are coming
out of Russia and eight who are going to Russia.
Zain?
ASHER: And, Priscilla, just as sort of Alex touched on there, you know, for the longest time, the Biden administration or rather the U.S. didn't have
enough high-profile Russian prisoners for this to be worth it for the Russians. Obviously, that changed when you started involving multiple
countries, including Germany.
[12:10:09]
Just explain to us. And I don't know if you -- even if you know -- I don't know if you know the answer to this necessarily. But just explain to us how
long Paul Whelan and Evan Gershkovich would have known that this potential deal was in the works.
ALVAREZ: So that's unclear, though I'm sure we will hear more from them when they are back state side.
But I do want to take you behind the scenes a little bit in terms of what diplomatic sort of flexors had to be made here for President Biden to
secure the release of these Americans. He took it to the highest level. He took it directly to Chancellor Scholz.
What we're learning is that in January, he had a phone call with the Chancellor discussing this trade with Russia. Then later, when the two met
in the Oval Office in February, this was brought up again.
This was something that was essentially worked on at the very highest level between these two world leaders.
And what senior administration officials have stressed is that it was because of the relationship that the president has with world leaders, like
Chancellor Scholz, that this was able to get done at all.
And so this again is when we hear from the president something he himself may note and, of course, commend those world leaders for working with the
U.S. and his -- and the alliances for having this come to fruition.
Of course, this also comes during an election year. And so it's inevitable that there is a bit of a political backdrop to all of this.
Former President Donald Trump had said earlier this year claimed that if he was elected again, that he would be the one responsible for bringing Evan
Gershkovich back home. Of course, that's not the case. It's President Biden who did so.
But in the moments to come, this could also extend to become a political discussion, especially because the administration has previously come under
scrutiny over who it decides to hand over to the Russians to release Americans.
So as we get more details, perhaps that becomes part of the dialogue, but there is no doubt that today the administration is certainly celebrating
this. The vice president also just released a statement where she said, it gives me great comfort to know that their horrible ordeal is over and that
they will soon be reunited with their families.
Of course, the vice president is in Houston today. That's where she has been for political events and today to deliver eulogy for the late Sheila
Jackson Lee.
The last time when Brittney Griner was released, she was at the White House flanking President Biden when he delivered remarks.
ASHER: All right. Priscilla Alvarez, Alex Marquardt, Matthew Chance. Thank you all so much.
All right. So, does this signify a possible thaw in U.S.-Russian relations? Ravi Agrawal is the editor-in-chief of "Foreign Policy" Magazine. He joins
us live now from New York.
Ravi, thank you so much for being with us.
So about, I want to say three months or so ago, I spoke to a man named Jeremy Berke who was the former, remade and really good friend of Evan
Gershkovich.
And one of the things he said to me in that interview that I thought was really interesting, is that oftentimes, Evan would often joke about the
possibility that one day he could be detained in Russia. And it was just a joke. You know, it was this sort of joke that friends make in jest.
Normally, and I was saying to him, normally when you joke about the worst possible thing happening, normally, it never actually happens. And this is
one of those rare occasions where these two jokes about the worst possible thing happening and it actually happened.
Evan certainly was not naive to the possibility and to the risks as a Western journalist in Russia.
He also wrote on social media back in 2022, reporting on Russia is now also a regular practice of watching people you know get locked away for years.
None of us are naive. We certainly went before. We are certainly not anymore. But what do Western journalists risk by reporting in Russia, Ravi?
RAVI AGRAWAL, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, FOREIGN POLICY: Oh, so much. And I should just note, I'm often on shows like yours to talk about bad news. It is
lovely to be on to talk about what is essentially a celebratory moment --
ASHER: Right.
AGRAWAL: -- where the families of the people who are being released must be feeling immense relief and joy in this very moment.
But, you know, as journalists, none of us take our jobs lightly. The journalists you just had on right before me, of course, spend a lot of time
going in and out of Russia when they're not based there.
And these are jobs that are, you know, incredibly fraught.
And in a sense, someone like Evan joking about it is a way to ward off. You know, to imagine the worst is a way to sort of steal yourself to the
possibility.
So I imagine that's part of his thinking behind that. And many journalists do that as well. Colleagues of ours, friends of ours, when they go to
places that are dangerous and they know that the risks those places pose.
[12:15:00]
But especially with a place like Russia, I think where Putin has made it so clear that he sees people who have committed no crimes, journalists,
tourists, dissidents, someone who may have just, you know, given a little bit of money to a Ukrainian charity.
Those are the types of people he has used as bargaining chips to release real spies, real assassins. And I think that contrast, the contrast between
Moscow and Washington in this moment is very stark and clear for the whole world to see.
ASHER: Let me see if I can get in one other question to you because President Biden is going to be speaking any moment now.
You know, obviously, for the family members of Evan Gershkovich, of Paul Whelan, you know, watching your loved one get detained in Russia is
difficult under any circumstances, but it's especially difficult in a country where you know the rule of law and the justice system is a complete
and total fast.
I mean, sure, you know that there is an appeals process, but that appeals process is not one that anyone actually takes seriously. It's not one that
you think that anything is going to sort of change the outcome. Just talk to us about that.
AGRAWAL: Of course, I mean, it's a black hole. You have no recourse. You have no idea what it would take to get a loved one released. There are no
rules here. The sham trials and sham courts have become so clear for the rest of the world to see. Those are the risks you take on.
I want to add one more point here as we wait for President Biden to make his remarks here. This is, in many ways, a triumph of multilateralism. The
fact that so many other countries were involved, Germany, we heard earlier, where a personal connection between President Biden and Chancellor Olaf
Scholz led to Germany making what must have been for them a very difficult decision to give up someone they spent a hard time capturing, a hardened
Russian colonel who killed someone in open daylight. To release someone like that, it takes political capital, it takes diplomatic capital.
The involvement of other countries, Slovenia, Norway, Turkey, which has been front and center in the negotiations, all of that is a triumph of
multilateralism for the United States to be able to call in favors, to be able to speak to allies and friends and say, look, these are pretty much
unprecedented circumstances. These are the only chips we could potentially use to release people who have done no wrong.
And for those countries to then step up and help is a big thing. You can imagine in the coming days, the Harris campaign and the Biden
administration will make this point very clear because this is an election year, the contrast between what they are offering in terms of an American
vision of a multilateral order, an order that is based on rules. That will be contrasted. I think they will try to make this contrast with a potential
Trump administration, which often likes to see the world in more transactional terms, more business terms.
And you would imagine in such a world, it is harder to make these kinds of treaty chess deals that involve friends and allies that have to make tough
choices.
ASHER: Yes. I loved what you said just there about just it being a triumph of multilateralism. If you sort of take a step back.
I'm particularly interested in the role that Turkey played. I mean, obviously, they played an important role back in 2022 during the release of
Trevor Reed. He landed in Ankara as well. Turkey also playing a major role here. They are a NATO ally, but they also, interestingly, have good ties
with Russia.
Just talk us through Turkey's role specifically.
AGRAWAL: Turkey, of course, is a member of NATO. It is often called out in the West for having views that can sometimes be a little bit divergent from
other NATO members, the transatlantic military alliance, of course.
Turkey can sometimes like to see itself as a free agent, sometimes as a player that talks to all sides.
ASHER: All right. Ravi, I'm so sorry. I have to interrupt you because President Biden is speaking now. Let's all listen in.
AGRAWAL: Mm-hmm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Everybody. Well, good afternoon. And this is a very good afternoon. Very good afternoon.
Today, we're bringing on Paul, Evan, also Vladimir. Three American citizens and one American green card holder. All four have been imprisoned unjustly
in Russia. Paul for nearly six years. Vladimir, since 2022, Evan, since March of 2023. And Alsu since October of 2023.
Russian authorities arrested them, convicted them in show trials, and sends them the long prison terms with absolutely no legitimate reason whatsoever.
None.
[12:20:08]
Paul, a former Marine, was in Russia for a wedding. Evan, a journalist with Russia in Russia -- was in Russia assigned by the "Wall Street Journal."
Alsu, also a journalist was in Russia to see family.
All three falsely accused of being spies. And Vladimir was a Russian citizen by birth and holds an American green card. He's a Pulitzer Prize
winning journalist and was a pallbearer of my friend John McCain's funeral with me.
He spoke out against Putin's regime. For that, he was convicted of treason. And now their brutal ordeal is over and they're free.
Moments ago, the families and I were able to speak to them on the telephone from the Oval Office. They're out of Russia.
Earlier today, they're flown to Turkey. And soon, they'll be wheels up on their way home to see their families. This is an incredible relief for all
the families gathered here. It's a relief to the friends and colleagues all across the country who have been praying for this day for a long time.
The deal that made this possible was the feet of diplomacy and friendship, friendship. All of the countries helped get this done. They joined a
difficult, complex negotiations at my request. And I personally thank them all again. And I thank them personally and I thank them again.
All toll, Russia has released 16 prisoners. Eight Russians were being held in the West will be sent home as well. These 16 prisoners from Russia had
that Russia has released to include four Americans, five Germans, seven Russian citizens who were political prisoners in their own country.
One of those Russians runs a human rights organization, Memorial, which won a Nobel Prize in 2022. Putin thrown him in prison, a voicing opposition to
the war in Ukraine.
Four others work with Alexei Navalny. Political opposition either died in Russia's prison this year. Now, they can live safely abroad and continue
their work of advocating for democracy, if they so choose.
This still would not have been made possible without our allies, Germany, Poland, Slovenia, Norway and Turkey. They all stepped up and they stood
with us. They stood with us. And they made bold and brave decisions.
Released prisoners being held in their countries who are justifiably being held and provide a logistical support to get the Americans home.
So if anyone who questions, would allies matter, they do. They matter.
And today is a powerful example of why it's vital to have friends in this world. A friend you can trust, work with, and depend upon. Especially, that
matters a great consequence and sensitivity like this.
Our alliances make our people safer. And we begin to see that again today.
Let me say this. It says a lot about the United States that we work relentlessly to free Americans who are unjustly held around the world. It
also says a lot about us that this deal includes the release of Russian political prisoners. They stood up for democracy and human rights. Their
own leaders see them in prison. The United States helps secure their release as well.
That's who we are in the United States. We stand for freedom, for liberty, for justice. Not only for our own people, but for others as well. And
that's why all Americans can take pride in what we've achieved today.
I want to thank everyone in my administration who made this happened. Our work did not start just on day one, it started before day one.
During the transition, I instructed our national security team to dig into all the cases of hostaged being wrongfully detained, which were inherently,
well, we inherited them from the prior administration.
I wanted to make sure we hit the ground running, and we did.
As of today, my administration has brought home over 70 Americans who are wrongfully detained and held hostages abroad. Many since before I took
office.
Additionally, I issued an executive order in 2022 authorizing penalties like sanctions and travel bans on those who hold Americans against their
will.
And my State Department has introduced new warnings for Americans about the risk of being wrongfully detained by a foreign government.
It feels like this one come with tough calls and there are never any guarantees. There's nothing that matters more to me of protecting Americans
at home and abroad.
And so we'll continue to work for the release of all wrongfully detained Americans around the world.
[12:25:02]
Let me end where I began with Paul, Evan, and Alsu, Vladimir and their families. They never gave up hope. You can't imagine what they've been
through with all of you. Matter of fact, this lady right here, I think, was living in the Oval Office for a little while.
All kidding aside. I can't imagine their joy right now, their home.
Tomorrow is a big day, the 13th birthday of Miriam. Miriam, where are you? Come here.
You all know we have a tradition in the Biden family. We sing happy birthday on her birthday. You ready? All of you.
(SINGING "HAPPY BIRTHDAY")
BIDEN: Remember, no serious guys until you're 30. God love you.
She's Alsu's daughter.
Now she gets to celebrate with her mom. That's what this is all about, families. Able to be together again, like they should have been all along.
So I want to thank you again to everyone who did their part.
In just a few hours, we'll welcome home our fellow Americans. We're looking forward to that. God willing, we're going to be out at Andrews and get that
done.
So thank you, thank you, thank you. And this is a good day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you say (INAUDIBLE) sir? What did you say when they answered the phone on the other side?
BIDEN: I said, welcome, almost home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you (INAUDIBLE) these so-called abductor states from simply taking more Americans in order to get more of their prisoners
home? How do you end these perversion centers, sir?
BIDEN: We're advising people not to go certain places. Tell them what's at risk, what's at stake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President (INAUDIBLE) on these negotiations? And can you speak to the complexity of working with six countries to secure these
prisoners?
BIDEN: Well, look, I'm not going to take the time now and I'll do this later in the week. I particularly own a great sense of gratitude to the
chancellor.
The demands they're making to me required me to get some significant concessions from Germany, which they originally concluded they could not do
because of the person in question.
But everybody stepped up, Poland stepped up, Slovenia stepped up, Turkey stepped up. And it matters to have relationships. It really does. These
things matter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you --
BIDEN: Pardon me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could this improve relations with Russia? Is there any avenue for that after this prisoner exchange deal?
BIDEN: As my sister might say, your lips to God's ears, man. I --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ask (INAUDIBLE) Vladimir Putin about this? Would you be willing to speak with Putin now directly?
BIDEN: I don't need to speak with Putin. All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What -- how did you weigh that decision of letting somebody out who sounds like got away with murder now?
BIDEN: I got home innocent people. Thank you. All right. Thanks.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you speaking with Erdogan or any of the leaders? Are you speaking with Erdogan or any of the leaders about this?
BIDEN: Say that again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you speaking with President Erdogan or other leaders about this?
BIDEN: Yes. I've spoken with all the leaders about this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you say --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you know the father?
BIDEN: And by the way, the father. Look, you heard me say this before. And I mean it. My dad has a simple proposition. Family is the beginning, the
middle, and the end. Blood of my blood, bone of my bone. I could think of nothing more consequential. I mean this sincerely.
And having lost family, not -- in a different way and not knowing what's happening, their circumstance when they're accidental, would it help? It
matters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, what did Germany ask for in response for their cooperation?
BIDEN: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Biden --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did Chancellor Scholz say to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump has said repeatedly that he could have gotten the hostages out without giving anything in exchange. What do you
say to that? What do you say to President Trump -- now former President Trump?
BIDEN: Why didn't he do it when he was president?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: All right. You've just been listening to somewhat brief press conference with President Biden, essentially expressing deep gratitude for
the release of four Americans. Well, actually three Americans and one green card holder, Paul Whelan, Evan Gershkovich, Alsu Kurmasheva, Vladimir Kara-
Murza as well.
He also expressed deep gratitude. And I think this was really important to the role that Germany played here.
Germany had initially said no. That's what we learned from President Biden there. Germany had initially said no to the release of that Vadim Krasikov,
a former FSB colonel, a Russian assassin who was held in Germany and then they stepped up to the plate. Then they agreed to release Krasikov in
exchange for those four Americans, three Americans and one green card holder that I just listed there.
[12:30:15]
He said it was an amazing day, a great day for U.S. diplomacy. And he said something that I thought was really key, just on the political front. Don't
let anyone tell you that allies don't matter. Allies absolutely matter.
Obviously, a slight contrast, or a significant contrast there to Donald Trump and the sort of isolationist American first views. He also talked
about the fact that he will continue to work on behalf of Americans being held all around the world.
Let's go back to Ravi Agrawal and Priscilla Alvarez.
Priscilla, just talk to us a bit more about what this means for Biden's legacy. I mean, obviously, he's only going to be president until January,
technically, when the next president is inaugurated. He's only got a few months left here.
What does this mean for his legacy, do you think?
ALVAREZ: Well, the president has always underscored his foreign policy chops. He was doing that on the campaign trail before withdrawing from the
presidential race, but it's also been a big theme of his presidency and the way that he has been able to reassure allies and also reassert leadership
on the world stage.
And so it was notable that in celebrating the release of these Americans, he was also talking about how important it is to have friends around the
world.
He said, quote, our alliances make people safer. And it's notable because former President Donald Trump and Republicans have sort of moved toward a
more isolationist policy.
And so this is the president essentially reasserting the position that the U.S. needs to have strong alliances and work with its partners to have
moments like this, remarkable moments like this, that lead to this historic prisoner swap.
So aside from that, however, the president was reflecting on what a day this has been, that the Americans were out of Russia, they were flown to
Turkey, and that they would soon be wheels up to greet their families here in the United States.
He described, quote, incredible relief among families. Remember earlier this morning, he was with those family members, meeting with them at the
White House. They flanked him there as he spoke.
And he said that the allies stepped up, talking about Norway, Slovenia, and Poland, and Germany. And we know that this was something that the president
took all the way up himself to Chancellor Scholz in January in a phone call, then later in a meeting.
So this was something that was worked on at the highest levels. It was also something that was kept close to the vest as they tried to secure the
release of these Americans, two high-profile ones, Evan Gershkovich and Paul Whelan. He walked through the ordeal that they all went through and
said, quote, their brutal ordeal is over.
Now toward the end there, he was asked by reporters whether this improves their relationship with Russia at all, whether it indicates any type of
breakthrough. He didn't answer that directly. And he also said that he doesn't need to speak with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
But essentially looking at this from the 30,000-foot view and from the president's legacy, again, he has always cited his foreign policy chops
during the course of his presidency. This is a moment, a historic one, where the president was leaning on that and his relationships with world
leaders to bring this deal to fruition.
But he's also making note of the fact that the allies stepped up to also have it come together.
So the president, the vice president, all celebrating this moment today as they look to welcome the Americans when they arrive here to the United
States. And he was doing that there in his remarks with, notably, the family members.
ASHER: Right. And what a touching moment when he sang Happy Birthday very briefly to Miriam, the 13-year-old daughter of Alsu, who's also on her way
back.
Ravi, let me bring you in, because President Biden was right about one thing. And that is, it was a bold and brave decision by Germany to step up
to the plate here.
It's not an easy thing to do to decide to release a criminal that is held in your prison, who is held, by the way, justifiably. And by the way,
Krasikov isn't a small fish. I mean, he is a hardcore Russian assassin.
I am curious what led Germany to sort of change its mind, because President Biden did say that, initially, Germany had a lot of reservations. It
sounded like Germany had said no at the beginning.
[12:35:03]
I'm not saying that you would know the answer to that, necessarily, but it also sounded like President Biden's relationship with Olaf Scholz played a
key part in this too.
AGRAWAL: Absolutely. I think that personal relationship does make a difference behind the scenes. You have to imagine that there is a give and
take.
I mean, to put in context what you're saying, when any country spends so much time and energy and resources to try and capture someone who has
committed a crime on your soil or nearby, it is very hard to then undo all of that work.
And so for America to go to Germany and say, I know how hard it was to capture this person. I know what he means to you. And we still want you to
give this person up for a higher cause to release Americans, but also Germans and also other people, including Russians. And that is the contrast
of this moment that makes it so telling, so historic. The parallels with the Cold War are very clear here.
And it also, I think, is something that the Biden administration, which is a lame duck presidency at this point, is going to point to as a real
achievement for their diplomacy, which is not over one day or one week or months, but much longer, especially with Germany, where there is a lot of
give and take in the US-German relationship.
For all the people in the United States who call into question whether the United States should help Ukraine more rather than less, whether America
should focus on China instead of Europe. This, in some senses, is one part of that puzzle as well, where appearing to be a solid ally to Germany and
to Europe, pays dividends in ways that we sometimes can't see in a pure zero-sum transactional way, which of course, the Biden administration and
the Harris campaign now will try to contrast with the Trump campaign.
I alluded to this earlier before we heard President Biden speak, and lo and behold, that is exactly the line that he was trying to put forward.
And you can imagine now the Trump campaign, this is an election year after all, will be at pains to try and explain their side of this. But really, in
this moment, a triumph of diplomacy.
And I should also point out, as all of us are trying to figure out Vice President Kamala Harris's involvement in the Biden administration's foreign
policy, it is worth pointing out she has been to the Munich Security Conference for the last few years. This is a small security conclave that
many defense ministers and spy chiefs from around the world attend, also world leaders, and a small selection of journalists.
I too have attended over the last few years. And I can imagine that Vice President Kamala Harris will point to her relationship with the Germans as
well.
And with this network of European spy chiefs, European diplomats, all of whom have likely played some role behind the scenes in the negotiations, in
the tough choices that needed to have been made for this moment to arrive.
ASHER: Yes, absolutely. We actually -- we actually are getting some reporting about Vice President Harris' role in all of this, in terms of her
own private meetings in Munich back in February with Chancellor Olaf Schulz as well.
Ravi, Priscilla, we have to leave it there. Thank you so much.
We'll have much more news after this short break. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:40:11]
ASHER: All right. It is an extraordinary moment in history, years in the making. "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich, former American
Marine, Paul Whelan, and Russian-American journalist, Alsu Kurmasheva, are now back to the -- on their way back to the U.S.
They were part of a massive prisoner exchange between the United States and Russia, the largest since the end of the Cold War.
Their families are at the White House right now along with President Biden. They spoke to their loved ones on the phone just a short time ago.
Turkey which played a mediator role, says the swap involved 26 people from seven countries including two children.
I want to bring in Jennifer Hansler. She's been in touch with Paul Whelan several times during his time in prison.
I mean, this is a remarkable moment for Paul, for his family, especially given the fact that he's been left behind multiple times.
Brittney Griner released a memoir earlier this year where she talked about what it was like. And it is so hard to fathom what the experience of being
held in a Russian prison is actually like.
Brittney Griner said that she had suicidal thoughts. Obviously has the PTSD. She was given toothbrush, a toothpaste, toilet paper. That was it.
She said that in terms of being sentenced to hard labor on a penal colony, that was the first time that she actually understood what it was like to be
a slave.
That is what people, these Americans are being held in Russia are dealing with. Those are the sorts of experiences they're dealing with.
Just talk to us about what Paul Whelan said to you about his own experiences.
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Well, Zain, he painted a really dismal portrait of this remote prison camp in Mordovia about eight
hours from Moscow that he has spent the past several years. He described a lack of medical care, saying he had what he called a persistent kennel
cough from no medical care and he had bursitis in his elbow.
He said that the food rations were often cut down and very, very minimal. Very little protein, very little vitamins and they often relied on having
to buy their own food from the commissary there.
He said he spent his days working at a clothing factory that he described as a sweatshop. And there were oftentimes where he was put into solitary
confinement especially at the beginning of his time in this prison colony and cut off from phone calls, cut off from calling his parents who he used
to call every single day. So it was really just a dismal terrible circumstance.
And you mentioned, of course, Brittney Griner. I got a call from Whelan in the day that they were able to bring Griner home. And he talked about how
devastating it was to be left behind.
Now, I should note that U.S. officials said at the time that Russia refused to include Whelan in that swap and that is part of what led to these very
intensive multinational negotiations to try to bring home first Paul, and then once Evan Gershkovich was arrested, him as well, and then the
additional two people coming back to the United States, Alsu Kurmasheva who is a Russian-American journalist, and Vladimir Kara-Murza who is a well-
known Russian-American dissident. And he has a residence here in the United States.
[12:45:13]
So this has been a month, and in some cases, years-long process where they have gone back and forth to Russia, trying to find what would be the key to
get them to release these Americans.
Eventually, they realized that it was going to take this convicted Russian assassin, Vadim Krasikov, who was held in Germany, and they began these
very intensive behind-the-scenes discussions with German government officials to try to get them on board with this swap.
Ultimately, Zain, that's what we saw play out today in these really dramatic images coming out of that tarmac in Turkey, of those seven planes
with all of these people who were being traded back and forth.
We know 12 people -- excuse me, 16 people, were released from Russian custody, and additional eight were released to go back to Russia, and it
culminated in this absolutely historic swap.
Zain?
ASHER: Yes. We've spoken so much about Paul Whelan being left behind, and now I'm sure that he's thinking about the likes of Marc Fogel, the American
teacher who is also now being left behind, charged with smuggling drugs back in 2022 and sentenced to 14 years in prison. He's not part of the swap
at all.
I'm sure his family members are really disheartened by that.
All right. Jennifer Hansler, live for us there. Thank you so much. We'll be right back with more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right. Back to our breaking news now. The Americans released in the historic prisoner swap are in the air and on their way back to the
United States. That's according to U.S. officials.
Today's massive swap was the result of months of complicated behind the scenes negotiations.
Let's get some more perspective on this prisoner swap. We're joined live now by Jill Dougherty, former CNN Moscow bureau chief, and now an adjunct
professor at Georgetown University.
Jill, thank you so much for being with us. I mean, this is remarkable news for the family members of those Americans who are now on their way back to
the United States.
I do want to talk about what happens next. And, obviously, we've spoken a lot on the show already about the diplomatic efforts that led us to this
point.
But in terms of what happens next, if you look at what happened with Brittney Griner, there is a reintegration process. There is a mental and
physical evaluation that they have to undergo upon landing in the US. And that is because of the emotional and mental trauma that they've experienced
over the past few years. Take us through that.
[12:50:13]
JILL DOUGHERTY, FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Yes. Well, they will be taken, or at least this is the way it's usually done, to a medical facility
that the Defense Department has.
And you're right, you know, it's psychological counseling. It's evaluating them physically. Because especially with Paul Whelan. That's an issue. He
actually was sick. I believe he had some surgery, which he said was not adequate. So definitely, you know, officials are going to want to know, are
they OK?
And then there's that period. And Brittney Griner, you related -- you recounted what happened to her. She spent some time there and said that it
was very important for her to get grounded and back. And, you know, on some type of even plateau before going home. There is going to be enormous
interest in both of them.
And then Alsu Kurmasheva, who was released as well. But there would be enormous interest. A lot of, you know, interest in having interviews with
them. And it's going to be a very, very different life then, I think.
And then I don't think, saying that we can forget, that there are -- you know, there's at least one other American, and that is Marc Fogel, the
teacher who taught in Moscow. He was not released.
And so there's another side to this. You know, there obviously is a lot of joy. But they're -- they -- Russia is still holding at least another
American. And we'll have to see.
The State Department may try to go and get him out or, you know, have negotiations, but that didn't work this time. And I'm sure it's very
difficult for the family.
ASHER: All right. Jill Dougherty live for us there. Thank you so much.
All right. CNN's Nic Robertson is following this story for us as well from Washington.
Nic, my producer just got into my ear to tell me that we do have a photograph, actually, to share with our audience of Paul Whelan and Evan
Gershkovich, just as they were freed.
There they are, of course, holding the American flag. This is a photograph that was released on Twitter by a colleague of Evan Gershkovich at the
"Wall Street Journal."
We don't have details yet in terms of when exactly this photo was taken or where it was taken. But obviously, these two men have been through so much,
Nick. I mean, yes, obviously Evan Gershkovich, but Paul Whalen, especially, because of the sheer length of time that he's been held in Russia. Talk to
us about that.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. And the way that he in particular has been manipulated, CNN's Jen Hansler, who was able to
take calls from Paul Whelan in jail, often at times after, for example, when Brittney Griner was released after when Alexei Navalny was killed.
And it was clearly a manipulation by the Russian authorities, by Vladimir Putin, to, you know, to have the voice of the person who got left behind
criticizing. He wasn't criticizing his own government, of course, but talking about the plight that he was still being held, that he wasn't
released, and the fears and concerns around that.
Of course, you know, he -- in those interviews, he said he was very pleased for the people who were released. He has been manipulated.
So when we talk about Brittney Griner going through that process, of going through this sort of de-imprisonment process, if you will, this obviously
is something that can potentially be of huge value for him because the psychological stress is, as everyone knows, they're accumulative. These
things accumulate on you.
And the times that he has feared for his life, the times that he hasn't got the right food, the times that his health has been suffering and hasn't
been adequately dealt with. All of that is going to add up.
But obviously for his family, you know, they're with President Biden when President Biden was speaking earlier. A huge moment. So I think there are
going to be a lot more moments like the pair of them there Evan and Paul spending there holding the flag together.
But I think everyone will understand that they're going to need to have quiet moments to go along with that as well, to decompress and feel at ease
with their new environment.
And for Paul who was there for so long, that's perhaps going to be the hardest, not to be in a prison, to be able to control your own life, to be
able to have access to what you want, to be able to talk to whom you want and when you want.
And these are going to be alien entirely to him at the moment.
ASHER: Yes. You think about what they've been through, the overcrowding at Russian prisons, the abuse, potential abuse by guards and inmates, the lack
of sanitation on Brittney Griner.
[12:55:00]
But you were talking about the fact that, you know, you were given toilet paper sometimes, you know. I mean, it's just inhumane what people were
going through.
And she also added the fact that you had to work essentially until you dropped. You literally had to work until you dropped.
Just give us a sense, Nic, of what these four have been through.
ROBERTSON: Well, we know because we've seen pictures and Paul has spoken about it, and he's described it as essentially a sweatshop, the clothing
factory, if you could call it that, inside a jail.
And let's just think about where these jails are and what happens in Russian jails. I mean, how do you know about the, you know, the sanitary
processes that have gone on in preparing your food, for example, or anything about your care and custody? None of it is inside of your control.
The prison that Paul Whelan was kept in was in the absolute sort of wilderness. And miles, hundreds of miles from anywhere.
You are mentally isolated. You are physically isolated. You are physically worn down, you know, by the work that you have to do. That's been described
by Brittney Griner.
This is extreme. It's not -- we can be pretty sure the prisoners that are going back to Russia, these spies and cryptocurrency manipulators and other
people, they will not have been treated that way.
They will have had a humane treatment within the prison systems of the countries that they've been detained in, whether it's Norway or Slovenia or
the United States or wherever. Entirely different.
ASHER: That's such a great point because there is the rule of law in those countries, unlike in Russia.
Nic Robertson, we have to be leave it there. Thank you so much.
That does it for ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher. Erica Hill has more of the breaking news coverage, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
