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One World with Zain Asher
Russia: Ukraine Fires U.S.-Made Longer-Range Missiles; Soon: Update Due In Trump Hush Money Case; 45 Pro-Democracy Activists Sentenced In Hong Kong; Source: Trump To Pick Howard Lutnick As Commerce Secretary; Trump Pushes Forward With Matt Gaetz As Attorney General; European Officials Cry Sabotage After Two Undersea Cables Out; Trump Confirms He'll Declare National Emergency On Immigration. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired November 19, 2024 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:36]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching ONE WORLD.
After 1,000 days of war against Ukraine, there is now a first. Moscow and the U.S. both say that Kyiv has fired American-made long-range missiles
into Russia for the very first time. The weapons are similar to those you're seeing here. Only days ago, the Biden administration gave Kyiv the
green light to use the longer-range weapons against targets inside Russia.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. It's been seen as a possible major escalation in the war. And the head of NATO has been talking to reporters about Ukraine's grim
milestone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: Today marks a thousand days of the full Russian onslaught, the unprovoked full Russian onslaught on Ukraine. So
today, we'll discuss how we can help Ukraine to prevail. That means more aid, more money, and we have to make available to them, particularly now
that the North Koreans have come on board.
And we know that China is helping Russia with the war effort. We know that Iran is supporting Russia with the war effort. And we also know Putin has
to pay for this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Some NATO members are bolstering their security against the backdrop of the Ukraine war. Sweden and Finland are also sending out
booklets with guidance on how to survive war. That includes stockpiling medication and baby food.
ASHER: CNN's Melissa Bell is joining us live now from Paris. So, Melissa, just walk us through this. The Russians and the Americans are both saying
that Ukraine has now attacked Russia for the very first time with U.S. long-range missiles.
Obviously, the kremlin is seeing this as a clear escalation. Walk us through what the likely reaction is going to be here.
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We've already seen, of course, that change update to the country's nuclear doctrine as a result
of that, or coming certainly on the same day, as we heard, first of all, from Moscow of these long-range missiles being used for the first time
inside and far inside Russia.
We're talking about 100 miles to the north of Kursk, where, of course, some Ukrainian troops have managed to hold positions now for many months. This
is the first time, and it had been the subject of so many questions and doubts and hesitations by the United States themselves about whether this
should be allowed.
What we heard is on the very day where the first use, two days after Joe Biden announced that it would be possible for you, for Kyiv, to use these
kinds of American-donated weapons, just that reaction on the very same day from Russia, an update to its nuclear doctrine, essentially lowering the
threshold for when Moscow believes it is possible for it to use nuclear weapons.
Now we've seen this kind of brinkmanship before. In fact, it's been a pattern clearly established throughout the two and a half years of this
conflict that almost every time there is what is perceived to be an escalation by Moscow of the West's involvement, whether it is material or
rhetorical in terms of its threats. I'm thinking of Emmanuel Macron offering to send ground troops just a few months ago. You will get an
immediate reaction from Moscow speaking to that escalation and warning of the grim consequences should it go ahead.
When it comes to the use of these attack, and specifically, Moscow had long said that their use would be considered an escalation in the war and a step
from which the war, no doubt, would not -- could not be recovered.
The brinkmanship, though, is also being taken with a pinch of salt inside European capitals because, Zain and Bianna, we're looking also at the fact
that this has been tried and tested method before and that so far nothing seems to have provoked Moscow to go further than it has in its use of
conventional weapons.
There is, of course, the timing. There is just a matter of weeks before President Donald Trump becomes the next American president. We know his
views on the need for peace quickly. At one sense is also, from the words of President Zelenskyy, who is speaking today to the European Parliament,
speaking to the fact that 2025 would be the year of peace.
There's no doubt either in the minds of Ukrainian/European officials that the time when all parties will have to sit around a table and negotiate is
probably not that far off, likely in the next few months. And that means that any ground that can be taken now, and Kyiv has consistently argued
that use of these long-range missiles will allow it better to defend itself, but we have no doubt also to push ahead with its positions where it
has them inside Russian territory.
[12:05:21]
The use of these missiles had been considered such a key to Kyiv that their use -- the question of their use now really becomes about whether it's too
little too late to allow Ukrainians to make the decisive push that they need in order to have a better piece of territory over which to go and
negotiate when those negotiations come.
ASHER: All right. Melissa Bell, live for us there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: Let's turn now to Fred Pleitgen who has the view from Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Russian state media quoting the Russian Defense Ministry now coming out with the first
details of what it claims were the first strikes by the Ukrainians using American-made longer-distance weapons to strike deep into Russian
territory.
The Russians claim that all five of these missiles were shot down. However, that parts of the missiles hit a military object, as that report said.
Now, so far, there's been no confirmation of any of this coming from the Ukrainians or from the American side. So right now, it is only the Russians
saying that.
At the same time, of course, the other big breaking news story here in Russia is the fact that Vladimir Putin has now signed off on an update of
Russia's military doctrine for the use of nuclear weapons.
Now, all of this essentially makes it easier for Russians to conduct first use of these types of weapons. The Russians are now saying that if Russia
is attacked by a non-nuclear country, like for instance Ukraine, using long-distance weapons, like the ones that the Russians claim have now been
used, and that if it is aided by a nuclear nation, like, for instance, the United States, that then that could trigger a nuclear response from the
Russians.
The Russian spokesman for the Kremlin has come out and said that the Russians want any sort of adversaries to understand that a response from
the Russians would be coming if there would be an aggression. It's unclear whether or not this will really change the game or change things on the
ground.
However, right now, it certainly seems as though the Russians are saying that if the Ukrainians fire missiles deep into Russian territory, that this
could also pit the United States and NATO and Russia against one another.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Fred Pleitgen.
Well, back in the U.S., at any moment, we could get the Manhattan district attorney's filing in the New York hush money case.
ASHER: You may recall that Donald Trump was convicted of 34 counts of business fraud over the summer. But Judge Juan Merchan has repeatedly
delayed sentencing in the case, and Trump's lawyers have argued that the whole thing should be dismissed, should be simply thrown out after the
Supreme Court ruled that Trump was entitled to some immunity from prosecution as president.
GOLODRYGA: CNN senior crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz has been tracking this story for us.
And, Katelyn, this filing was due almost two hours ago. What do you make of the delay here?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN REPORTER: Zain and Bianna, that's just how the court system in New York works, sometimes there's a lag for whenever we get word
from what is exactly happening in court.
But the question we're hoping we get an answer to from -- for today, is will Donald Trump be sentenced in this case where he was convicted on 34
counts business falsification of records in New York's court in Manhattan.
What does the district attorney here want? The prosecutors who brought this case, won this case against Donald Trump secured that conviction in front
of the jury. What do they want to do?
We did hear from them, previously, when they asked to have a delay in making some sort of choice. That's the filing that we're waiting on today,
what their decision was on what they want to do with this sentencing of Donald Trump.
And they had previously said, you know, it's unprecedented circumstances that Trump is the president-elect now will be president again. They want to
respect the office of the presidency, but also balance that with what the jury found here, the verdict of guilty against Donald Trump after a trial.
And so we're waiting for what the prosecutors say, what they ask for. Do they want a sentencing to go forward before Trump takes office as
president? And then what does the court do? What does Judge Juan Merchan in Manhattan say? And does a sentencing happen? How much protection does
Donald Trump have right now because he is the incoming president?
It is a question that no other court is ever going to have to cross the threshold of answering because all of the other criminal cases against
Trump are essentially on hold with no end in sight and are likely to be for the foreseeable future if they go forward at all, even after he's done with
the presidency. Yes, it really is an unprecedented circumstance we're in here.
[12:10:13]
GOLODRYGA: Yes, indeed. And we should note to our viewers that once we have word of the filing, obviously, we will bring you the updates as we get
them.
In the meantime, Katelyn Polantz, keep us updated and posted, please. Thank you.
Well, human rights groups and the U.S. consulate in Hong Kong are condemning the sentencing of dozens of pro-democracy advocates and former
lawmakers.
ASHER: Well, the U.S. consulate says the 45 defendants were, quote, peacefully participating in normal political activity protected under Hong
Kong's basic law. This is the largest single prosecution under Hong Kong's national security law that was enacted four years ago.
Here's our Ivan Watson with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Judges in Hong Kong handed down a combined prison sentence of more than two centuries behind
bars.
In fact, more than 245 years to 45 defendants who have been convicted of the crime of conspiracy to commit subversion. The defendants, the judges
ruled, if their scheme had been carried out to the end, the adverse consequences would have been no less serious than, quote, overthrowing the
government.
Now, the defendants, they organized an unofficial primary election back in 2020 to prepare candidates to compete in elections for the city
legislature. And that is essentially their crime, their plot that they were convicted of.
This has all but killed off the once vibrant pro-democracy movement that thrived in the city until a crackdown that began four to five years ago
with the imposition of a controversial national security law, part of a broader crackdown that has killed off independent newspapers in the city,
and the protests and demonstrations that were once tolerated and, in fact, allowed to participate in the streets of the city.
Outside the courtroom on Tuesday, a single woman tried to hold up a protest sign and carried away by police to a police van. That is symbolic of how
dramatic the shift in political culture has been over the last four to five years.
Critics of the crackdown and of this sentencing include human rights groups as well as the U.S. consulate here, which has condemned the sentencing and
added the statement, quote, we call in China and the Hong Kong authorities to seize politically motivated prosecutions of Hong Kong citizens and to
immediately release all political prisoners.
The Hong Kong government and the Chinese national government have rejected this kind of criticism, arguing that this is meddling in Hong Kong's
internal affairs. They contest that this court case has helped bring back stability to Hong Kong which went through nearly a year of anti-government
protests in 2019 that had grown increasingly violent.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Still to come for us, Donald Trump testing his power with Republicans as he ramps up the pressure campaign over his
controversial pick for attorney general.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:15:08]
GOLODRYGA: Well, Donald Trump's economic team is starting to come together now.
ASHER: Yes. Sources tell CNN that Trump has chosen Wall Street executive Howard Lutnick to be his Commerce Secretary. Lutnick is co-chair of Trump's
transition team and has been an advocate for the use of tariffs to help fund the government.
Lutnick reportedly wanted the post of Treasury secretary, but will have to settle for commerce instead.
With more, let's bring in CNN's Alayna Treene. So just walk us through this, because as commerce secretary, he's going to be in charge of
negotiating trade deals, for example, including tariffs.
Obviously, he is known for Cantor Fitzgerald, obviously a billionaire American businessman. Take us through it.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: That's right. With a lot of these posts, particularly the ones as they relate to the economy, to trade, including,
you know, the Treasury secretary, but also the commerce secretary, Donald Trump has really been looking for big names, big CEOs, people who are well
known in the business world, who have the right credentials for the roles, but are also compatible with him. And also, when we think about
compatibility, we know that Donald Trump really means loyalty.
Now, what's interesting about him selecting Howard Lutnick for the role is a couple things. One, Howard Lutnick is currently in charge of Donald
Trump's transition process.
Both him and Linda McMahon, a former secretary of Donald Trump, have been kind of co-chairing the transition process. Lutnick handling the personnel
side, McMahon handling the policy side.
Now, you're right in the fact that Howard Lutnick had actually been pushing for the role of Treasury secretary, and he was very much in the running,
one of the leading names that Donald Trump had been considering, along with another Wall Street person, a hedge fund manager, Scott Bessent. Those are
really the two names, as of, like, last week, essentially, that Donald Trump was thinking that he was going to name one of them to the role.
However, a lot of infighting and contentious, you know, things playing out behind the scenes has really contributed to Donald Trump rethinking that
role.
I know that many people in Donald Trump's orbit, those who are working on this transition process, many of them have been frustrated with how Lutnick
had been -- has been handling it. They've argued that he has a really big ego, that he's been leaking to the press, that he's not operating in kind
of the disciplined manner that really they had run their entire 2024 campaign as.
And so there were some problems behind the scenes with him. And now we're seeing that he kind of was passed over for the role of Treasury secretary
and now is going to be commerce secretary.
Now the other interesting thing, and I know I'm getting into some of the palace intrigue here, but it is important as we think through how Donald
Trump is really looking at these different appointments.
Linda McMahon, the co-chair I was mentioning, who serves alongside Howard Lutnick for the transition, she was also really gunning for that commerce
secretary role. I heard there's been some frustration now that it ended up going to Lutnick.
All to say, there is a lot of uneasiness really within the transition team with a lot of these people who are, you know, really vying for the same
roles.
But I think one thing to keep in mind here is that we still don't now have a Treasury secretary. We do not know who Donald Trump is slated to pick.
However, what we do know is that he has scheduled a series of meetings this week with other people that he is potentially considering for that role.
Many again are big business names, people who Donald Trump believes will be loyal to him, but will also be kind of accepted with open arms from the
business community.
ASHER: All right. Alayna Treene, thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Well, as President-elect Trump prepares to announce more cabinet picks, he's doubling down on his controversial choice for attorney general.
Sources tell CNN that Trump is personally calling senators to lobby for Matt Gaetz.
ASHER: The House Ethics panel is set to meet Wednesday to decide whether to release a potentially damaging report on the former congressman and
attorney.
The two women who testified to that panel spoke to CNN. And he said, one of his clients claims that she actually saw Gaetz having sex with a minor.
Gaetz has continued to deny any wrongdoing. I want you to listen to what the lawyer for the women -- the woman, rather, had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[12:20:14]
JOEL LEPPARD, ATTORNEY FOR TWO WOMEN WHO TESTIFIED TO HOUSE ETHICS COMMITTEE: The testimony before the House was, yes, that Representative
Gaetz paid my client, both of my clients, for sexual favors throughout the summer of 2017 all the way to the beginning of 2019.
She testified to the House that as she was walking out to the pool area, she turned to a right and she witnessed her client -- I'm sorry, her friend
having sex with Representative Gaetz. And her friend at that time was 17.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: CNN's Annie Grayer has the latest from Washington.
As we noted, Annie, the House Ethics Committee is meeting tomorrow amid renewed pressure to release this ethics report. And it's not just the
president that we're reporting is calling senators to back him on this. It's Matt Gaetz himself who is making phone calls amid his former
colleagues there in Congress to give him a chance. What more are you hearing?
ANNIE GRAYER, CNN REPORTER: The pressure campaign to push Gaetz through as Trump's attorney general nominee is real and building.
Gaetz met with a group of House Republicans last night, the far-right House Freedom Caucus, where we're told that he really tried to downplay this
report, as he's trying to make the case for why he should move forward as Trump's attorney general.
We're also hearing and we've also reported that the Republicans on the Ethics Committee are trying to bury this report through a number of ways.
They're arguing that the report isn't finished. They're trying to delay the meetings with their Democrats on the committee.
So, while we're expecting this meeting with the committee to happen tomorrow, the sources say there's a chance that Republicans try and delay
it again.
And this is -- and we also have House Speaker Mike Johnson, who continues to say publicly that this report should not see the light of day.
And this is all coming as Republicans on the Senate are growing increasingly worried about Gaetz' chances of being confirmed and are making
increased calls for this ethics report to be released.
In fact, the incoming Senate Judiciary Chair, Republican Senator Chuck Grassley, said, if this ethics report got released, it would make Gaetz'
confirmation process move more quickly.
So you have Senate Republicans who are increasingly calling for this report to be released, while you have House Republicans and Gaetz and Trump
himself trying to push Gaetz as quickly as possible through this process.
Of course, you also have Democrats who are swirling around all of this trying to get this report out.
In fact, just moments ago, over nearly 100 House Democrats sent a letter to the House Ethics Committee calling in them to immediately release this
ethics report. So the pressure campaign is building on both sides, and all eyes are going to be pointing towards this Ethics Committee tomorrow. What
will these members do?
GOLODRYGA: Yes. It is really hard to believe at this point, and knowing how things have a way of leaking in Washington, that this report at some point
doesn't see the light of day, but we will continue to follow it. Annie Grayer, thank you.
ASHER: Thank you, Annie.
All right. The victim in a mass rape case that has shocked France, and actually the world, insists that the country is a patriarchal society and
has to change. During a court hearing Tuesday, Gisele Pelicot condemned the cowardice of the men accused of abusing her.
GOLODRYGA: Pelicot's husband, Dominique, admitted to inviting dozens of strangers to their house over nearly 10 years to rape his wife after he
drugged her.
Now the couple's sons say they will never forgive their father.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID PELICOT, GISELE AND DOMINIQUE PELICOT'S SON: We know the atrocities my mother experienced. It's obvious that we can't forgive. I lost my
father. I found a monster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Wow. Their sister has also alleged abuse by their father, which he denies.
ASHER: All right. Still to come, 1,000 days of war as Ukraine marks that bleak milestone and fires newly approved U.S. made longer-range missiles.
We'll look at some key Ukrainian cities nearly erased by the conflict.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:25:22]
ASHER: All right. Welcome back to ONE WORLD, I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.
More now on what could be a major escalation in Russia's war on Ukraine. Russia's defense ministry says Ukraine fired U.S.-made longer-range
missiles into Russia's Bryansk Region, just days after U.S. President Biden gave Kyiv the green light.
ASHER: Now, today marks 1,000 days since Russia's full-scale invasion. Since then, several towns and cities have been obliterated by the fighting,
essentially altering the country's landscape.
CNN's Nathan Hodge reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NATHAN HODGE, CNN SENIOR ROW EDITOR (voice-over): Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine has now lasted for over 1,000 days, and it has quite
literally altered the country's landscape.
HODGE: While Ukraine has recaptured around half the territory Russia took in 2022, Russia still holds more than 20 percent of Ukraine, including many
cities and towns that were shattered by Russian firepower.
This map shows some of the cities that have been levelled by Russia's grinding war of attrition. And before and after images show just how
destructive Russian President Vladimir Putin's campaign has been.
Mariupol, a coastal city on the Azov Sea, was one of the first objectives for Russian forces looking to establish a land bridge between the occupied
regions of the Donbas and the Crimean Peninsula, annexed in 2014.
After a nearly three-month siege, the city and its sprawling Azovstal steelworks fell to the Russians. Since its capture, the Russian government
has pride to showcase its partial reconstruction.
Ukrainian officials believe that more than 20,000 civilians died during the siege.
In May last year, Russian forces claimed control of the eastern city of Bakhmut after more than 200 days of fighting. Once celebrated for its
sparkling wine stored in a massive underground complex and its salt export, Bakhmut became synonymous with the horrific number of lives the Russians
were willing to expend to capture this symbolic prize.
The fighting has also turned smaller cities into abandoned ghost towns, such as Mar'inka and Vovchans'k. Putin justified the full-scale invasion of
Ukraine by saying he intended to protect the largely Russian-speaking population in the country's east.
But in effect, his so-called special military operation has nearly erased many of these cities from the map.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: All right. Some European governments are warning of possible hybrid warfare involving Russia after two cables carrying internet data deep in
the Baltic Sea were damaged.
GOLODRYGA: Let's get straight to our CNN's Anna Stewart in London. What more are we learning, Anna?
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So the German defense minister has called it likely sabotage. We now have two cables deep in the Baltic Sea that have
been damaged. The first was on Sunday, that was a cable between Lithuania and Sweden, it was severed. And then yesterday on Monday, a second cable,
this one between Finland and Germany was cut.
[12:30:15]
Now these undersea cables are a real critical bit of infrastructure. I think undersea cables account for around 95 percent of the world's internet
traffic. Fortunately, countries are never really over-reliant on any one link and they can be repaired. So no lasting damage here.
And I think the disruption part of the story is almost over already and we're really talking about how did the damage occur and maybe who is
responsible?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNALENA BAERBOCK, GERMAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): We are now also experiencing this in Germany, geographically at the heart of the
European Union, so to speak with cyber-attacks, observation and spying on critical infrastructure.
Suddenly, parcels that are supposed to be transported in airplanes are exploding. And yesterday, as you mentioned, a data cable between Finland
and Germany, and probably also affecting Sweden, broke down. None of this can just be a coincidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEWART: Not a coincidence, not considered to be an accident. The question is who could have been behind this. And they haven't said explicitly. But,
of course, many people are questioning whether this could have been Russia, whether this is part of what is being termed as hybrid warfare.
U.S. officials told CNN just in September that Russia was more likely to carry out sabotage operations. They even told CNN that Russia had beefed up
its dedicated secretive marine unit. And, of course, there have been many incidents of attacks in the West, likely to be from Russia, whether it's
espionage, electoral interference, disinformation and so on.
So this could be part of that. Of course, if Russia is behind this, it's not going to admit it. Guys?
GOLODRYGA: All right. Anna Stewart, thank you so much.
Well, time now for The Exchange. We want to take a closer look at the war now and the latest developments. Ivo Daalder is a former U.S. ambassador to
NATO. He's also the CEO of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and joins us from that city.
Ivo, always great to have you on. So there we have it, history being made the first time just days after President Biden greenlit the use of ATACMs,
both Ukraine and Russia confirming that Ukraine used them in the early hours this morning into the Bryansk Region in Southwestern Russia.
Now that we've already crossed that threshold, given your previous role at NATO, do you envision that other allies will also begin equipping similar,
longer-range missiles? Germany is a separate situation, given their dynamics and complexities internally and politically. But will we see the
U.K., for example, now step up and do the same?
IVO DAALDER, FORMER UNITED STATES PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVE TO NATO: Yes, I do think we'll see the U.K. and the French, both of whom have already
provided these weapons, just like we did with regard to the ATACMS to the Ukrainians.
But until now, those weapons could only be used inside Ukrainian territory. That, of course, changed overnight, with the U.S. allowing the ATACMS to be
used against Russian targets inside Russia.
Of course, let's remember, Russia has shot 25,000 missiles and drones at civilian infrastructure, mainly civilian infrastructure in Ukraine. So the
idea that this is somehow an escalation, it's really a way delayed response.
But I do think all allies will come around and do the same thing. I would expect even the Germans, particularly if there's a change in government, to
provide their very sophisticated tourist missile to the Ukrainians to use against targets deeper inside Russia.
ASHER: Although Russia does view this as an escalation, in fact, they've said in the past that this is a red line. And even though they've issued
red lines in the past, do you think that in terms of a response, this time might be different?
What sort of a reaction or a response can we expect from Moscow, especially given that Donald Trump, a much more sympathetic figure, is going to be
inaugurated in just under two months?
DAALDER: Well, I don't think the response will be significantly different from what we have already seen. Your report just now about the sabotage
that has been ongoing Russian sabotage throughout much of Europe and indeed in the United States, blowing up weapons depots, attacking water supply and
military bases, putting packages that can blow up on airplanes towards the United States and Canada, cutting cables like the internet cable,
apparently, in the Baltic Sea, assassination attempts, including of senior German arms manufacturer. And, of course, the electoral and other
interference in our democratic systems.
This is what Russia has been doing. They are claiming to the extent that they're claiming anything it is -- it is in response to the U.S. and
European aid to Ukraine. I think we're going to see more of that.
[12:35:06]
I mean, the reality is we're kind of at war with Russia. Russia has decided not only to invade Ukraine, it is also attacking in subversive manners
through a hybrid warfare, NATO territory.
And I think it's well timed that we highlight that this is happening, to put it out front there and to start developing responses. One of which is
to allow the Ukrainians to defend themselves by attacking targets in Russia.
GOLODRYGA: So, in your view, is Russia now simultaneously with news of these ATACMS being used updating its nuclear doctrine, effectively lowering
the threshold that they say they would use nuclear weapons?
Do you think that that is just more of a symbolic move as opposed to something that obviously could send shockwaves around the world and
something to really be concerned about in the United States?
DAALDER: Well, we always have to be concerned about. The reality is that Russia possesses nuclear weapons. What it says it's going to do with them
is less important than what it actually does. So I put less stock in the fact that President Putin yesterday, or today I guess it was signed a new
part of a doctrine into law. I worry more about if we see weapons being moved and readiness to actually use them take place.
But the Russians, of course, know that, not only do we have nuclear weapons and we could respond in kind, we also have much more superior military
equipment. We may be providing a few ATACMS to attack Russian targets, military targets inside Russia.
There's a lot more we could do. We could actually get involved in the war, if necessary. And I think the Russians are also aware that if they use
nuclear weapons, the game is completely changed. Everything changes. And that includes the limits that we have put on what we're providing Ukraine
and, importantly, what we're willing to do ourselves.
ASHER: Yes. I mean, they will take on a lot of risks if they -- if they end up using nuclear weapons.
Just in terms of Donald Trump taking office in January. He's promised that he will and can end this war in just one day. What does that actually look
like in practical terms in terms of, you know, negotiated territory and that sort of thing?
DAALDER: So I don't think we're going to have a real peace negotiation in which Russia and Ukraine come to some kind of agreement to end the war.
I think it's much more likely that the focus will be on ending the fighting, finding a way to find a ceasefire. A temporary one that Donald
Trump can claim as victory, a win. He said, I will end the war. And if the fighting stops, he can claim that is what it means.
I think there is the possibility that he can convince both Kyiv and Moscow to take a pause. I don't see a real negotiation. I don't see Ukraine
accepting giving up territory, not being able to decide its own alliances. And, frankly, I don't see Vladimir Putin particularly interested in that as
well.
So I think the focus for Trump will be, in the initial months, on finding a way to end the fighting, at least temporarily, rather than finding a way
towards peace, which is beyond his capability and, frankly, anyone else's.
GOLODRYGA: Ivo, we know that over the past decade we've seen a real schism within the Republican Party itself, from those who share more of Donald
Trump and J.D. Vance's isolationist views and even more sympathetic towards Vladimir Putin, and those that are more of the Russia hawks who focus more
on vesting in alliances. And there's no love lost, as we know, between Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump.
So I'm wondering if you could weigh in on what Mitch McConnell just said today in terms of Ukraine finally being allowed to use ATACMS inside
Russia. He blasted President Biden and said, history will record hesitation in decision and cowardice as the hallmarks of this administration's Ukraine
policy from the beginning. Your views on that?
DAALDER: Yes, those are strong words. I think President Biden has done whatever he could to help Ukraine. I think, like many of us, I believe that
there was more he could have done earlier, including providing the ATACMS earlier and allowing those to be used against military targets in Russia. I
think the same is true with the deployment of F-16s, more earlier would have been better. No doubt about it.
However, let's be very clear, Donald Trump wouldn't have provided any of these weapons if it had been up to him. He was against the package that was
approved just a few months ago. He's halted any aid for a very long time by making clear to the House it shouldn't be voting on this thing.
[12:40:06]
And, of course, he has said that he will -- he will not only end the war, but he will end any support for Ukraine for the war.
What is dominant now in the Republican Party is not the Mitch McConnell wing of the party, not the John McCain wing, or, frankly, the Ronald Reagan
wing of the Republican Party. Within the party, both in those who are elected and increasingly among those who vote for them, there is a view
that Europe is a -- is a problem for Europeans to address, Ukraine is a problem for Ukrainians to address, but no longer for the United States.
Unfortunately, I wish that the Ronald Reagan wing was stronger in the Republican Party. But the reality is Donald Trump is president, not Mitch
McConnell, and that's what's going to determine the policy going forward.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Mitch McConnell is retiring, actually. We should note.
Former ambassador to NATO, Ivo Daalder, thank you so much.
ASHER: Thank you, Ivo.
GOLODRYGA: All right, still to come.
DAALDER: My pleasure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't got no taxes on my tips now. So thank you, Donald Trump. Love you, Pookie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Donald Trump has been celebrating his election victory at the Ultimate Fighting Championship in New York. That's where CNN spoke with
some of his young supporters.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Well, Trump is pushing ahead with his mass deportation plans and has signaled his intent to declare a national emergency on immigration.
ASHER: Right. Policies to crack down on undocumented migrants were at the top of his America First agenda during the campaign. And now he's working
to put it into place, starting with day one of his second term.
CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President-elect Donald Trump confirmed that he is preparing a national emergency declaration to fulfill
his campaign promise of mass deportation.
It's a telling move, one, that indicates just how resource-intensive any type of plan to detain and deport migrants at large scale would be.
Now, it also may sound familiar. Of course, Donald Trump, in his first term, used a national emergency declaration to unlock Pentagon funds for
his border wall.
Now, that faced numerous lawsuits, and it's possible that they may happen again.
But sources tell me that this time, a national emergency declaration would be used to use and shore up Pentagon resources and military assets again
for detention spaces and also to follow through on those deportations.
[12:45:05]
What they say is that these -- this would not be to bring U.S. military to arrest immigrants in the United States.
Now, all of this, of course, is because they are trying to build deportation up to scale, and that also includes, according to sources,
regional capability and looking at where they can expand detention facilities already in the United States.
Now, in addition to all of this, sources say that other plans are underway. That includes executive actions like bringing back Remain in Mexico,
revising asylum restrictions, or for example, making more immigrants eligible for removal taken together. It would amount to a far more hardline
approach to immigration, one similar to Donald Trump's first term in office.
Priscilla Alvarez, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Well, President-elect Donald Trump taking a night off from his presidential planning over the weekend to attend a UFC event at Madison
Square Garden over the weekend.
ASHER: Yes. CNN's Donie O'Sullivan was there speaking with young men as new research shows conservative news influences helped the former president
gain their support.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Are you guys excited for tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of Course. Chandler knocking out Oliveira in the second round. Mark my words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bah, bah, bah, bah, bah.
O'SULLIVAN: How? How?
We are here at Madison Square Garden for the UFC with special guest, President-elect Donald J. Trump. And we are speaking to some of the young
men who helped get Trump elected.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saving our country. I don't got no taxes on my tips now. So, thank you, Donald Trump. Love you. Pookie.
O'SULLIVAN: You guys both vote for Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been working at the same restaurant for four years. I've been a waiter. I've been a busser. I've been a barback. You know, I
just don't -- all the taxes that can occur (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, curse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
O'SULLIVAN: Well, I mean, where'd you get most of your news and information?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most of it through --
O'SULLIVAN: I know it's not CNN.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: That's why I'm here. Like I want to hear them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, most of the information I got was from Joe Rogan.
O'SULLIVAN: Joe Rogan?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Rogan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The legend man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But mostly like social media, if you want me finding out, it's social media.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that's --
O'SULLIVAN: TikTok?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, usually. That's what everything spreads around, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: TikTok is everywhere, bro.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't watch a lot of mainstream stuff.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. Where'd you get your news?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like Reddit?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of podcasting.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. Like who?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Rogan.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Joe Rogan Experience.
O'SULLIVAN: Do you think it was a mistake for Harris not to go on Joe Rogan? Or do you think it --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably. Honestly, I think, like a long -- a long conversational talk is better than a debate.
O'SULLIVAN: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honestly. You can see how a person actually interacts.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Trump's good at interacting on -- he doesn't need a script.
O'SULLIVAN: You're a New Yorker?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Born and raised.
O'SULLIVAN: Nice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brooklyn, New York.
O'SULLIVAN: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the hood.
O'SULLIVAN: Did you ever consider voting for Harris?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually voted for Obama.
O'SULLIVAN: You did?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. That was the last time I ever voted for somebody that's not Trump. Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: So, what changed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My level of thinking. Me not thinking that the police are above me and white men are above me. And I'm all good about like, yo,
we can learn about history and all that stuff, but don't tell me, or don't try to put it in a way that it's like our country is racist.
Our kids are important, guys. And if we're not teaching them well, if we're not teaching them about credit, if we're not teaching them about how to get
a home eventually, and we're -- all we're talking about is racism and, you know, trans and gays, which like I said, I'm all good. Like you do what you
do. Just don't force it on people. And that's where we're about like, as long as you're not forcing it, we're good.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): The power of the alliance between Trump and the UFC was on full display here in Madison Square Garden.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sound in this room --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's so loud to hear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is so loud.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Trump was flanked by Elon Musk, Kid Rock, House Speaker Mike Johnson, and some of his new cabinet picks, including RFK Jr.
and Tulsi Gabbard.
As he made his way into the arena, Trump embraced UFC commentator and the world's most famous podcaster, Joe Rogan, who endorsed him after Trump
appeared on his podcast.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
[12:50:52]
ASHER: All right. We've just got some breaking news we've been waiting to get to over the past couple of hours. The prosecution in Donald Trump's
hush money trial has filed with the court how they think the case should proceed.
Just to remind you that Donald Trump was, of course, convicted earlier this year of 34 counts of falsifying business records in the case of hush money
payments to Stormy Daniels, the adult film star.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. But the sentencing has been delayed because of the election. And as we've said, these are extraordinary circumstances. A
president-elect who is also a convicted felon.
CNN's senior crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz has been tracking this story for us, has read through the filing. What is the
prosecution saying, Katelyn?
POLANTZ: Yes. Three pages in the prosecutors say they're not opposed to having Donald Trump's sentencing in Manhattan delayed until after his
service as president is over. This was something that had been scheduled to happen before Trump takes office in January as the president-elect. His
team has been fighting against that.
We're still waiting for exactly what the judge solidifies here, what the judge decides to do. But it is a big step in favor of what Donald Trump
wants here for the prosecutors to take this position. They say that they don't want the proceedings of a sentencing to be happening until after the
end of defendants' upcoming presidential term, so about four years.
And they also give a little bit of explanation that they say that they believe this case still exists, that it's based on unofficial conduct for
things that Donald Trump did that he doesn't have immunity for, that they want the court to continue to look at other issues Donald Trump is raising
to challenge this case.
The sort of thing that you get to do after a conviction by a jury appeals, filing dismissals based on what was presented at the trial. They want that
to move forward. They just are saying, fine, he doesn't need to be sentenced.
And the additional reason they give is that the prosecutors in Manhattan say they deeply respect the office of the president, are mindful of demands
and obligations of the presidency. And acknowledge that Trump's inauguration will raise unprecedented legal questions, but they're trying
to balance that with the jury's verdict and the constitutional system of justice that is set up across the country and in New York.
Remember, this is the remaining case where Trump has something on the calendar moving forward, and obviously it's the only one out of four sets
of charges in federal court, in state courts, where he has been convicted of crimes.
And so that sentencing -- big question mark. The prosecutors say it shouldn't happen soon, but it should happen someday.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. We'll end up seeing what Judge Juan Merchan rules upon, but I would imagine he's giving heavy weight in consideration to the
prosecutions filing as well in their asks.
Katelyn Polantz, thank you.
ASHER: Thank you, Katelyn.
All right. From all perspectives on this, let's bring in former state and federal prosecutor David Weinstein. So, David, I'm sure, hopefully, you
heard Katelyn Polantz, our reporter there, basically saying that the prosecution is completely flying with delaying this case until after Donald
Trump has served four years in the Oval Office. But we still don't necessarily know what Judge Juan Merchan is going to do here. Just give us
your take on this development.
[12:55:18]
DAVID WEINSTEIN, FORMER STATE AND FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I'm mildly surprised at the position that the prosecution has taken. Look, ultimately,
this is up to Judge Merchan to decide whether or not he's going to side with them and continue to delay the sentencing in this case.
But, you know, what strikes me as odd is that in most, if not all, criminal prosecutions, you cannot appeal your conviction until after you've been
sentenced.
Now, you don't have to serve your sentence while you're taking an appeal, but you need to be sentenced so that your conviction is final.
So here the prosecution is saying, we don't mind you getting the pause button for four years until after the defendant has completed his service
as president. But we want to elect the other motions and appeals take place and see what happens here.
They're trying to avoid having to be the hard party here, who's now looking to sentence someone who's going to be installed as a president in January.
And I understand that. But they're not really giving Judge Merchan that much leeway because you can't finalize the appeal until the sentence has
been imposed.
So I see what they're doing. They're also probably waiting to see what Jack Smith has to say in the two federal cases, what his final closeout report
is, what his justification is on the federal side for abandoning his prosecutions. There, they have Department of Justice policy that says you
can't take a criminal case forward against a sitting president, and those cases aren't going anywhere until after Trump becomes the next president.
So I think they're sort of trying to play all of their cards and not trying to be the person who's going to come across as the ones who are attacking
someone who's coming in to be a president.
GOLODRYGA: Given how we've described this as just sort of an unprecedented scenario, even though there was a 50-50 chance that we would see Donald
Trump elected to the White House again, how do you expect or how did you expect Judge Juan Merchan to rule here, knowing that as we stated, I would
imagine he does put a considerable amount of attention and weight into this filing from the prosecution?
WEINSTEIN: Well, quite frankly, he wants this case off of his docket for the time being. So what I expected to happen, and it's still -- some of it
may happen, is for him to rule on this motion that's pending to dismiss the case in light of the U.S. Supreme Court's decision that there is
presidential immunity for acts that have occurred which were official.
And in this case, prosecution has said nothing that was done was an official act. He can use those facts and deny their motion to dismiss and
then move to sentencing. So I expected him to rule on the pending motion for dismissal, move to sentencing, sentence the former president as a
defendant. And then hold the sentence in abeyance and say, you don't have to serve anything.
Not that he was going to oppose jail time, but if he did, you don't have to serve any jail time. Probation, you don't have to serve any probation. No
fines, no penalties, nothing. But now this case is closed and it can work its way through the New York State Court of Appeals. And then you can try
and take it up to the federal system and then up to the U.S. Supreme Court to get a ruling there. That's what I expected to happen.
I didn't expect them to just hit the pause button and say, I'll see in four years, we'll talk about it then.
ASHER: All right. David Weinstein, unprecedented is one word to describe what's been happening here in terms of Trump's legal woes. Thank you so
much for being on the show.
That does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Thanks for watching. Don't go anywhere. I'll be right back with "AMANPOUR" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:00:00]
END
