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One World with Zain Asher
UnitedHealthcare CEO Shot And Killed In New York City; French Prime Minister Faces No-Confidence Vote; South Korean President Facing Possible Impeachment; Manhunt Underway For Gunman Who Killed UnitedHealthcare CEO; Source: "Absolutely Critical" Day For Hegseth's Nomination; Kash Patel's Controversial Plans For The FBI; Supreme Court Takes Up Gender-Affirming Care For Minors; International Stowaway Returning To The U.S. Today. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired December 04, 2024 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:37]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone, live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching ONE WORLD.
We want to begin with major breaking news here in New York City. The police say that the CEO of UnitedHealthcare was shot and killed in what they call
a brazen and targeted attack.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. The shooting happened before 7:00 A.M. outside a Hilton hotel in midtown Manhattan. And a manhunt is underway right now for the
gunman.
Police say they believe 50-year-old Brian Thompson was walking toward the hotel to attend a meeting with his company's investors when he was gunned
down.
ASHER: Yes. They said the gunman who was wearing a face mask had been waiting for about five minutes for Thompson's arrival and took off down an
alleyway after the shooting before getting on an e-bike. He was last seen in Central Park.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. CNN security correspondent Josh Campbell joins us live from Los Angeles. And, Josh, as we noted, we just had a press briefing from New
York City officials. Still so many unanswered questions, though we do know that the suspect remains on the loose, and the victim was shot multiple
times. What more did we learn?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And police going out of their way multiple times there to indicate, they believe at this hour, that
this was a targeted attack there, an assassination-style attack against this one individual.
And, you know, as we were waiting for that press conference, we've been reading the tea leaves here, all characteristics that we know had indicated
just that.
We know for example that the shooter had fired from a distance of about 20 feet away using a suppressor on that weapon in a crowded area, if you have
that type of device on a firearm. That could then, obviously, you know, muzzle the sound of the gunfire itself, allowing that person to then make
their escape. And that distance also, you know, rules out any type of robbery here to shoot someone and then flee.
There are a lot of things that are going on behind the scenes right now. Investigators are doing what's called a video canvas. New York City is
blanketed with closed caption television. Cameras both owned by the city as well as by private companies. So police are going to try to get that
footage in order to look at the incident itself to try to determine where the person came from, to track them, and obviously to try to then move
beyond that. And to see where exactly they went.
And then there's a question about whether this individual had any type of threats against him prior to the shooting, the victim. So that is what law
enforcement will be looking for. They would also be working to interview anyone in the shooter's orbit, friends, family, co-workers, again, to try
to determine was there anyone with a grievance that they knew about who may have conducted this brazen style attack.
ASHER: Yes. And in terms of what we learned from that press conference, Josh, the victim was essentially shot in the back more than once. We know
the gun initially malfunctioned, but the perpetrator was able to fix it. We're learning that a silencer may have been used as well.
How might the gun itself, Josh, help investigators figure out who this suspect might actually be?
CAMPBELL: Yes. You know, that's an important point because we've seen in past incidents that oftentimes assessment of what's called shell casings.
You know, when you fire a weapon, the shell casing is then ejected as well as the round of ammunition itself, which, you know, goes out the front of
the firearm.
And so what authorities can do, particularly with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms here in the U.S., is they specialize in tracing
weapons. They can actually look at those shell casings. Each particular gun, just like a fingerprint, leaves a unique signature on a round of
ammunition. And so they would look at that to try to determine, is this a gun that we know in our database has been used in past crimes as well?
And then they would take the task and this is grim, my apologies, but also trying to recover the bullets themselves, the ammunition, whether that's
from, you know, the walls of nearby businesses or oftentimes from the victim himself, trying to remove those fragments in order to assess them
again to determine whether this was something that they've seen before, whether it's actually tracked to a specific individual which would help
potentially in the identification.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Such a tragic story. We'll continue to cover. Josh Campbell, thank you so much.
CAMPBELL: You bet.
ASHER: All right. Let's get more perspective now. We're joined by retired FBI Special Agent, Bobby Chacon. So, Bobby, thank you so much for being
with us.
You know, obviously, the investigation is going to rely heavily on eyewitnesses, but also, of course, as Josh Campbell was just pointing out
there, cameras. New York City, Manhattan, where we are right now, is littered with cameras literally almost everywhere.
[12:05:01]
How easy would it be to trace his movements, though, in Central Park? Because we know that after fleeing on foot, he then escaped on an e-bike
and he headed towards Central Park.
Is that a tricky area for investigators in terms of piecing together and tracking his movements using cameras?
BOBBY CHACON, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: It is because they have less -- obviously, there'll be less cameras. Although they do have some cameras in
Central Park. It will be less -- and they're in pushing up buildings and you have trees and you have -- you know, as a park would have some natural
barriers to cameras catching a lot of things. And that's the problem with cameras in parks.
Although this time of year, you know, the leaves are on trees. They might catch a brace that way. But, yes, certainly it's a little more difficult
inside the park like that because of the natural things that interfere with the camera's sight.
GOLODRYGA: And, Bobby, as in all of these cases, timing is of the essence here. The sooner they find the suspect, obviously, the better.
Talk about the concerns you have that the longer a time goes by, especially despite the fact that there are cameras throughout the city. This was a
heavy populated area, even at that time in the morning.
We do know that the suspect was wearing a mask. He could have easily changed clothes. He had a backpack on him as well. How concerning is it
that as more time passes, the harder it actually will be to ultimately find the suspect?
CHACON: Well, that's the best point here that kind of people didn't address because, you know, everybody's talking about the pre-planning of this. This
is very pre-planned. He obviously had a plan. I don't know if he had a plan to get on an e-bike. He probably did. So he probably pre-planned his route.
But also, he pre-planned afterwards. So like you said, the quicker we get him, because he had a plan to get away. Now we may have had a plan to leave
the state, leave the country. You know, he obviously had a plan leading up to the attack, which means to me he had a plan to get out of the police
kind of barrier, perimeters that they set up.
So you're right. You're exactly right. And that's the most important part to make is that he probably had a plan just as much as he pre-planned. He
post-planned his escape and where he's going to go. He probably had a place where he's going to go, how he's going to travel, train, car, plane,
whatever.
And so they really have to get on the quick because, you know, when you see something so meticulously planned, everybody kind of leads up to the
attack.
But you got to remember if you plan that carefully leading up to the attack, he probably planned his escape just as carefully. So they've --
he's now in that, you know, planning phase, or the part of his plan where he actually plans to escape. And so, you know, he's carrying that out right
now. So the quicker they get on them, the better.
ASHER: So the fact that this was 6:45 in the morning outside a Midtown Manhattan hotel, the gunman knew within a 10-minute window when the CEO
would be arriving.
Just the fact that the gunman had that kind of detail, right? That kind of detail, I mean, the conference started at 8:00 A.M. The gunman knew that
roughly around 6:40, 6:45, Brian Thompson would be arriving.
What can we actually glean from that do you think?
CHACON: Well, first of all, I might take issue with the fact that he was only there for five minutes. That's when they have him on camera. So he
might have been in the area before and they may come up with other video that shows him in the area before.
My thinking is, he was probably there a lot longer than that, even though it was cold. He knew he was coming. He was probably there earlier that may
catch him on another video or he may have been out of video sight. That's when they actually caught him on video right now, five minutes before.
But if that is the case, like you said, if he -- if he knew, you know, a very specific time frame when he was leaving his hotel to walk across the
street to the Hilton, then it indicates that he had prior knowledge of his movements and that would indicate somebody on the inside of the company,
you know, that had knowledge or he was associated with somebody inside the company that might have had that knowledge.
GOLODRYGA: We do know that New York, and you're in Los Angeles, I'm sure you know New York very well, has a high police presence, especially this
time of year with the holiday season. As we noted, this is midtown Manhattan. A large hotel that was hosting a conference.
Are you surprised that there weren't more security or police officers at the scene? I don't know if there were any there. We do have eyewitnesses
that describe the suspect fleeing and going into a back alley and then into Central Park.
But just putting the time lapse together, the fact that the suspect wasn't able to be stopped by any sort of police presence, is that surprising to
you at all?
CHACON: In a way. And I know New York very well. I was born and raised there. My brother and father were both NYPD. I know the department very
well.
It's surprising, but it also indicates that, you know, there's cops on almost every block in Midtown. It really -- it really reinforces the fact
that he planned it very well. He knew to take that alleyway. He knew not to walk up to the next corner and turn, because that's probably where he would
have run into a police officer.
So he knew to keep his attack alley very small. He shot him and then got right to that alley and then went to the next avenue over. That tells me he
knows that there's police in the area and he knew how to get out of there quicker before he would run into an officer.
[12:10:10]
Because the officers are running to the sound of the gunshots, if there were. Now, the suppressor may have, you know, muffled that a little bit.
But they're running towards the sound of people screaming or the sound of that. He's actually getting away from that sound down an alley.
So it indicates to me that he knew not to walk up that avenue to the next corner because that may have been police officers present.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. The suspect shot his victim twice, according to police reports, once in the back and once in the calf before fleeing the scene.
Bobby Chacon, thank you so much for joining us. We'll obviously continue to be closely watching this story.
In meantime, we're also watching a developing story in France where lawmakers there are set to vote on a no-confidence motion against their
prime minister.
ASHER: Yes. It's a decision that could plunge the country further into political chaos and have economic effects across Europe.
Right now, members of parliament are debating the motion, which is -- which was sparked Monday when Michel Barnier attempted to pass part of his
government's budget, which, by the way, includes billions in tax hikes and spending cuts as well.
He tried to push it through using a controversial clause that allowed him to bypass a parliamentary vote.
CNN's senior international correspondent Jim Bittermann is joining us live now from Paris with the very latest.
So, Jim, I mean, this is -- this is really consequential because if this measure passes, this would be the first time that a government has been
ousted through a no-confidence vote in France since 1962.
I mean, this hasn't happened for decades. And it would make Michel Barnier the shortest-serving French prime minister in history. Take us through
that.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, in fact, he was in a kind of a no-win situation from the very beginning. Emmanuel
Macron was looking very desperately to find somebody that could bring all the sides together here after he had called the snap election in the
parliament.
The parliamentary election, which was earlier in the summer, basically Macron thought he was going to get a parliament that would be more on his
side. In fact, the plan didn't work. He came up with a parliament that was almost evenly divided, one-third, one-third, and one-third.
And as a consequence, appointing a prime minister became a difficulty. It took him months to come up with Emmanuel Macron, rather with Michel
Barnier. And Michel Barnier was only named in September. He's had three months to get through what is his most important job, which is to get a
budget together for next year. And he hasn't been able to do that very well. We're going to see the end result of that tonight when the parliament
votes on this. This lack of confidence measure that's coming up.
During these months of negotiating with the various parties here, it led to all sorts of accusations from one to the other.
Marine Le Pen, who was just in front of the National Assembly speaking, she said that Michel Barnier had not paid attention to the will of the people.
Meanwhile, Barnier, on a television address last night, basically said that Marine Le Pen, the extreme right leader, was subjecting him to political
blackmail. Here's the way he put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHEL BARNIER, FRENCH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): She tried to get into a kind of one-upmanship, telling me it's either the non-indexation
of pensions or its medicines. I came to an agreement with the teams to assess medicines. And when I told her that, she said, well, pensions too. I
don't want to get into blackmail. That's not my state of mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BITTERMANN: So the parliament's going to continue debating for another hour or so. And then they're going to start voting. And we'll just see if Michel
Barnier can survive. Bianna, Zain.
ASHER: We shall see. All right, Jim Bittermann, live for us. Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: And still to come for us, demanding democracy. One day after South Korea's president shocked the world by declaring martial law,
lawmakers waste no time trying to impeach him.
ASHER: And Donald Trump's pick for defense secretary says that he is not dropping out. We'll tell you why today is such a critical day for Pete
Hegseth.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:15:54]
GOLODRYGA: Well, political storm continues to rage in South Korea that could mean instability for months to come.
ASHER: Yes. Lawmakers plan to discuss a motion to impeach President Yoon one day after he declared martial law. So protesters gathered outside the
National Assembly in the middle of the night where lawmakers voted to reject that declaration of martial law, as troops tried but failed to stop
them.
A video of one politician arguing with a soldier went viral.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: President Yoon has since rescinded the martial law order, but pressure is building for him to resign.
Robert Kelly is a professor of political science at the Pusan National University, and he joins us now live from Columbus, Ohio.
Professor, it's good to see you. So, Yoon's potential --
ROBERT KELLY, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, THE PUSAN NATIONAL UNIVERSITY: Thank you for having me.
GOLODRYGA: -- ouster from office, not only depends on this vote from parliament, but obviously they then need to see a subsequent two-thirds
majority vote from the Constitutional Supreme Court as well.
And I guess his fate lies in the question as to whether declaring martial law was justified by standards. Do you think it was?
KELLY: No, no, I don't. I mean, a martial law, and particularly in the South Korean case is intended for the possibility of conflict with North
Korea. And that didn't happen. In fact, it's kind of noticeable that the North Koreans didn't take advantage of this really to do any trickery along
the border.
It looks like -- you know, we're still trying to figure this out, but it looks like the president declared martial law because of the opposition,
the sort of relentless opposition that he has met in the parliament.
The progressives are -- he is a conservative. The progressives in South Korea have sort of really stymied his government. They've investigated his
wife that apparently has hurt him quite badly.
And I'm actually kind of sympathetic to that. I think the opposition has kind of hounded him a little bit unnecessarily, but this is such a wild
overreaction that I would be amazed if he isn't forced to resign or is impeached.
ASHER: I mean, it's interesting because this is a president who knows the law, who knows the constitution, who worked as a prosecutor for many years.
I mean --
KELLY: Right.
ASHER: -- he would have known that this wasn't necessarily going to end well for him. He would have known that this would have led to a checkmate.
Just give us your perspective. Obviously, it's impossible to get inside President Yoon's head.
KELLY: Right.
ASHER: But give us your thoughts on why exactly he took this route, knowing that this is probably where things would have ended up, given his
experience with the law.
KELLY: Yes. I think that's actually one of the big mysteries about this, right? Is that it looks so inept, right? I mean, as you say, he sort of is
a lawyer himself, right? He sort of -- he grew up with the law. He was sort of a part of the investigative unit in the South Korean government in the
past, so he knows this, right?
He presumably had some sense that the South Korean public would go on the street and resist. He presumably had some sense that the parliament would
resist, that there'd be uncertainty and dissent inside the military, and yet he went forward with this and seemed to have no real plan about what to
do. I mean, there was no sort of like movement on, for example, like the TV stations. There is no movement around the country and other cities.
And this whole thing looks like it was really thrown together. And I'm wondering if we're going to find out this was a very impulsive decision,
right, that he made this decision in the last day or two and that this was just kind of thrown together at the last minute. Because if this was
supposed to be a coup, it was an astonishingly inept one.
[12:20:17]
GOLODRYGA: The last time a South Korean president was removed from office, I believe the president knew he was actually the prosecutor who helped work
on that case. So to the point that you and Zain were making about the puzzle that's yet to be solved here as to why he wouldn't have assumed that
this would be the outcome here.
But in that situation, it took months for the impeachment to actually then lead to a subsequent election. Just talk about the instability that these
next few weeks or months could mean for the country.
KELLY: Right. So I think the biggest impact is going to be a medium term impact on South Korean stocks, on the won, on the bond market, on South
Korean currency, right? There will be a sense among foreign investors in South Korea that, whoa, the country isn't as stable as we thought. Our
investments in South Korea aren't as stable as we thought. Maybe we should pull back. Maybe we should be cautious about putting more resources into
the country. I think that's probably what's probably the biggest takeaway from this.
I do not think that the military is now a threat to South Korean democracy. Although we'll have to find out just how complicit the military was in
this. If it really was, and we don't know, and that is a genuine sign of political instability.
But it's worth pointing out that the South Korean military has been comfortable with civilian control since that -- since it democratized in
1987. So this will be a huge shock.
I do think if there's impeachment, if President Yoon chooses not to resign, I think the impeachment will go much more rapidly than it did with Park
Geun-hye in 2017. I think Yoon Suk Yeol will probably be out of office by the end of January.
ASHER: Yes. I mean, if he does resign, as I understand it, an election would have to be held within two months, within about 60 days or so. Just
talk to us about how much of an opportunity this is for the opposition.
I mean, you have to remember that this is one of the most unpopular South Korean presidents --
KELLY: Right.
ASHER: -- in history, with an approval rating of 20 percent. When he did win two years ago, he won by razor thin margin.
So, you know --
KELLY: Right.
ASHER: -- the opposition is looking at what's happened over the past 24 hours and is thinking what?
KELLY: I would imagine that they're expecting an enormous victory. That is what happened when the previous president was impeached. She was a
conservative too.
As you might imagine, the media, the public was tremendously against her, and there was an enormous backlash against her party, and a liberal
followed her in office.
I would imagine the same thing will happen here. Yoon's offenses are much greater than Park Geun-hye's were, right? I mean, Park Geun-hye was
basically corrupt. And she didn't really pay attention to the presidency, and was kind of -- to be honest, she was kind of checked out from the
office.
Yoon, right, I mean, put the military the parliament building and that's -- I mean you just can't do that, right? I mean the entire country is going to
turn against him. Even a conservative party has split over this.
I would imagine he finds very few allies in the National Assembly. The excuse-making on Korean TV from conservatives has been pretty bad in the
last day or two. I don't think that's going to -- going to last. So I just don't see a route for him to survive.
And as you point that out, his national approval rating is already so terrible that I just don't see anyone in the country seriously objecting to
his impeachment.
GOLODRYGA: I mean, do you see the possibility, actually, of him facing jail time, something that's --
KELLY: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: -- not unheard of that's actually become quite common among former presidents?
KELLY: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: Wow.
KELLY: Yes. South Korea has jailed its presidents in the past. And this is -- I mean, this is by far -- I mean, this is -- you know, I mean,
suspending constitution from democracy because of parliamentary gridlock and the investigation --
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
KELLY: -- of your wife. I mean, this is -- I would -- yeah, I would imagine he will go to prison in the next year.
GOLODRYGA: Quite a fall from grace, a man who visited --
KELLY: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: -- the White House just, you know, less than two years ago for a state visit.
KELLY: Right. Right. That's right. Yes.
ASHER: Singing "American Pie."
GOLODRYGA: Singing "American Pie" in English.
KELLY: Yes. That's right. That's right.
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
KELLY: He seemed OK.
ASHER: That's the best part of that state dinner.
KELLY: He seemed kind of normal, right?
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Well, here we are.
KELLY: Nobody knows it's going to happen. He's like lost his mind or something. Like nobody knows.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. The shock heard around the world.
Professor Kelly --
ASHER: Well, but we have to have you on again.
GOLODRYGA: Thank you so much. And best to your children.
ASHER: I love your enthusiasm. People who watch.
GOLODRYGA: Best to your children.
KELLY: I'll bring them in. This is for season.
GOLODRYGA: They'll know what I'm talking about. Exactly.
KELLY: I'll bring them in.
ASHER: That viral video. How could we forget? Thank you, Professor.
GOLODRYGA: Thank you.
ASHER: All right. Still to come in ONE WORLD, the man Donald Trump wants to make into America's top policeman. What the FBI could look like if Kash
Patel gets his way?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:25:27]
ASHER: All right. Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.
Turning back to our top story, a manhunt is underway in New York City after the CEO of UnitedHealthcare was killed in broad daylight.
ASHER: Yes. Police say that Brian Thompson was fatally shot outside of the Hilton Hotel in Midtown Manhattan at the height of morning rush hour.
GOLODRYGA: The suspect is described as using a silencer and wearing a mask. Investigators believe he stood outside the hotel entrance for about 10
minutes and then fired several shots at Thompson when he arrived, before then taking off on foot. Many questions remain. The police say the shooting
does appear to be intentional.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH KENNY, NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: The motive for this murder currently is unknown. But based on the evidence we have so far, it does
appear that the victim was specifically targeted. But at this point, we do not know why. This does not appear to be a random act of violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: CNN's U.S. national correspondent, Brynn Gingras, is live outside the Hilton in Midtown Manhattan where the shooting happened.
As tragic as the shooting is, it is somewhat of a relief to residents in the city. There's a tree lighting event tonight. Obviously, everyone should
remain alert. But it does appear that authorities are trying to calm nerves a bit by saying this seemed to be a targeted shooting.
Nonetheless, the suspect remains on the loose. What more can you tell us about what officials have learned?
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bianna. You picked up the same thing I was picking up, which is they said that very up at the top
of that news conference, this was a targeted shooting to their belief and to calm the nerves of many people.
But it does appear also they still have a lot of work to do in trying to figure out, not only who the suspect is, but where this person is, along
with the motive that you just heard from the NYPD. They don't know that just yet. Or at least they're not telling us.
What they do know is that this happened at about 6:40 or so in the morning. The UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson, was walking across the street
from a hotel he was staying, because he lives in Minnesota, to this one here behind me, the Hilton, for a conference.
And they believe that that suspect wearing a book pack, a hoodie, a mask laid and wait, as they described for about 5 to 10 minutes before firing at
Thompson several rounds.
They found three shell casings here on the scene. And then they say that suspect took off. They say he got onto -- ran to -- down the back alley and
onto an e-bike where they basically lost track of him, to our knowledge, at least, in Central Park.
So there's a lot of questions that still need to be answered. But some of the key things that they did find, guys, is a cell phone that they're
trying to run forensics on. Does it go back to that suspect as well as GPS tracking of those e-bikes? You have to rent those e-bikes.
[12:30:06]
So possibly any sort of information they can glean from that e-bike that appears to be, so to speak, the getaway vehicle. So a lot of questions
though, like you guys mentioned, that police are still trying to answer at this hour, only about five hours into the investigation.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Brynn Gingras, continue to follow developments in this story for us. Thank you so much.
ASHER: All right. Donald Trump's choice to run the Department of Defense says that he is not dropping out. Sources tell CNN Trump's team are
increasingly frustrated with the questions and controversy around Pete Hegseth.
GOLODRYGA: And they say today is an absolutely critical day as Hegseth tries to rise above talk of mistreatment of women and excessive drinking.
Sources say the Trump team has already begun floating names of possible replacements.
Let's go to CNN's Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill with the latest. And we started hearing reporting about possible replacements, including a very
high-profile governor perhaps. But Hegseth and even the Trump team seemed dead set on Hegseth as of late.
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. He's resolute that he is staying in this race to lead the Pentagon despite the fact that there are a
lot of questions and a lot of high-stakes meetings today on Capitol Hill that will determine if that future is possible for Pete Hegseth.
One of those key people that he's going to meet with is Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa. She sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee. She's a sexual
assault survivor. She also is someone who has been very vocal about her belief that women should be allowed to serve in combat, something that Pete
Hegseth, in the past, has made comments, disparaging. So that is going to be one of the key things that perhaps they talk about today in her meeting
with Pete Hegseth.
I just caught up with her a few minutes ago and she said she was looking forward to this meeting. She also made clear this is going to be a thorough
discussion and that may contrast with the kinds of meetings that Pete Hegseth had had on Monday and Tuesday with some folks who are much closer
to Donald Trump, who are much closer to MAGA World, who I think were having a much more social conversation with Pete Hegseth than maybe some of the
meetings he's going to experience today on Capitol Hill this morning.
He also met with the incoming Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Roger Wicker. Right now, he is meeting with the incoming Republican leader
John Thune, another critical meeting and someone who knows very well up here on Capitol Hill how to count votes, what the reality is of these
confirmation battles because I think that's another thing to keep in mind.
We are still weeks, if not months, from this process being completely done playing out and that means that this drip, drip, drip of additional
information that has been problematic for some Republican senators could continue to be an issue for Pete Hegseth.
I would also note that I talked this morning with Senator Kevin Cramer, someone who's going to have the last meeting of the day today with Pete
Hegseth. And he said that he wants to hear from him in his one-on-one meeting that Pete Hegseth is done with drinking.
He said that that is something that's really important to him. He said he has firsthand knowledge of what it is like to struggle with alcohol given
the past of one of his sons.
But I just think that's a really interesting slew of meetings today on Capitol Hill given the situation that Pete Hegseth finds him in right now -
- himself in right now with the critical day of meetings ahead.
GOLODRYGA: Our colleague, Manu Raju, was able to catch up with him in a very short exchange where Pete Hegseth told Manu that he was not dropping
out of the race and said that he had spoken with President Trump who says that he is still standing by him. That's from Pete Hegseth himself to our
colleague, Manu Raju.
Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill, thank you.
Well, from Trump's controversial pick to run the Pentagon, we turned to his controversial choice to head up the FBI.
ASHER: Yes. Kash Patel has vowed to turn the FBI into an agency that will support pretty much whatever Donald Trump wants. He has spoken openly about
launching investigations into Trump's political enemies, including journalists, by the way, who report on the president.
Patel also talks about firing top FBI officials and shutting down its Washington headquarters. Critics say his ultimate goal is to take a
nonpartisan agency and basically turn it into Donald Trump's personal police force.
Time now for the exchange. Joining me live now is Elaina Plott Calabro. She is a staff writer for "The Atlantic" and has written extensively about Kash
Patel and some of her -- his more, let's say, controversial ideas. Elaina, thank you so much for being with us.
So Kash Patel, just in terms of his plan for the FBI, he has called for the firing of the agency's top officials, as I was just mentioning, shutting
down his Washington headquarters and, of course, prosecuting some journalists.
Now, the thing is, we have to remember that some of what he says is hyperbole, right? Some of it is exaggeration. But there are some things
that he can actually do here.
[12:35:04]
Just walk us through, you know, the difference between the two. What can he do and what can't he do.
ELAINA PLOTT CALABRO, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: So when it comes to the bluster about getting rid of the J. Edgar Hoover FBI building and
dispersing FBI agents who work there just across the country, that I suspect is going to be the first area where he just runs up against a lot
of red tape.
You'll recall that the current FBI director Christopher Wray, not even he could overrule the GSA when they set into motion plans to move the FBI
building to Maryland. So to what extent he has unilateral power over that building, it remains to be seen.
As far as launching the investigations that he's been talking about really for years now, I think that's more of something that the Americans should
be concerned about.
As FBI director, he would have jurisdiction to sort of gather the discovery and evidence that was later than be pushed on to possibly Attorney General
Pam Bondi to launch these investigations into members of the so-called deep state.
And for those who want a little bit more of an extended list, specific names, they can turn to appendix B of his book, Government Gangsters, where
he makes quite claim just who he would be looking to target in a position of power.
GOLODRYGA: And as anyone would find from reading, which I highly suggest people do, your lengthy and well researched piece on Kash Patel, he's not
an ideologue. He's just someone who will do anything. Go to any links for Donald Trump. And that's not just hyperbole. It's what we saw from him when
he worked for him in the first Trump term at the NSC.
And it's not just members of the Democratic Party who had voiced concerns about him. Some within Trump's own circle in his first administration from
Bill Barr, who's his attorney general, who said, over my dead body, well, this guy, be my deputy.
Gina Haspel, who head the CIA at the time, said something similar, the lines, that she threatened to resign. So what is it about this man that, A,
Trump is so invested in, what draws him to him? And at the same time, why are so many other people repelled by him?
CALABRO: I think his lack of ideology is probably the most important point when thinking about why it was that so many people, Republicans and
Democrats alike, as you mentioned, objected to his rapid rise through the ranks of the national security establishment in Trump's first term.
I think it's instructive to compare him to someone like Stephen Miller, who is very clear what policy he wants to advance when it comes to immigration.
You're not so much thinking about Stephen Miller, the person as much of his specific agenda.
With Kash Patel, this is not at all the case. He's not somebody who would be traditionally understood in the past as a movement conservative or even
really partisan more broadly. Of course, he worked under the Obama administration as a prosecutor at DOJ.
And so really, his ideology, such as it is, has become entirely tethered to Donald Trump. Donald Trump has been the fuel to his route rise through
national government. And my understanding, through my reporting, based on countless conversations, is that he will do whatever it takes to remain in
Trump's good standing because he otherwise has no real grounding in a traditional policy sense.
ASHER: Just in terms of looking at Donald Trump's some of his own words, I mean, he's repeatedly vowed, this is Trump I'm talking about, to use the
Justice Department to go after his political adversaries in his second term.
When you think about the fact that Donald Trump initially looked at Matt Gaetz, right, for Attorney General and then now, obviously, Kash Patel for
FBI, what does that tell you about the sort of Justice Department that Trump is envisioning for the next four years?
CALABRO: I think Trump has made quite plain in the past few years that one of the major mistakes, in his view that he made in his first term, was
hiring the so-called adults in the room as (INAUDIBLE) coined in the media. Members of the Republican establishment who had held government positions
before while they're in the Bush administration or at some other point.
And so the fact that Kash Patel was not, in the end, able to rise to as FBI director or the CIA director was because, as you all mentioned, people with
the movement of Bill Barr, CIA director, Gina Haspel.
And as Trump came out of office was looking ahead to a hypothetical second term, he would make quite clear, I will not make those mistakes again.
So when you see him putting forth people like Matt Gaetz, like Kash Patel, I think that is more than anything else a message that this time highest
ranks of this government will be staffed by the kind of loyalist. You're not going to see anyone who might otherwise be described as a, quote-
unquote, guardrail. And what that means for the investigations that might unfold in his administration, who that might target really remains to be
seen.
[12:40:13]
GOLODRYGA: It seems like the Senate and specifically Republicans are consumed with one nominee ahead of time, in terms of them being able to
vote for approval in confirmation.
We saw Matt Gaetz really suck up a lot of the oxygen initially before he dropped out of the race. Now, things of an attention has turned to Pete
Hegseth.
Do you think that assuming in the next 24, 48 hours, this critical window when we may see Pete Hegseth do the same, do you think that the focus will
then turn to someone like Kash Patel as to whether or not he is ultimately confirmable?
CALABRO: I think it absolutely will. And I would also like to note that the fact that the -- the fact that Trump and his orbit have put forth Kash
Patel for a Senate confirmed position was, in fact, quite surprising to me.
In my reporting on this person, it's been generally understood around Trump's orbit that this is someone who would probably be best installed as
a deputy, a position that didn't require Senate confirmation and then elevated in an acting capacity to a top role within the national security
apparatus.
So this really is, you know, quite a message from Trump, quite a statement about his confidence about what he can get senators to go along with in the
end.
But I think this conversation will be a lot more prolonged than it is with current -- other current nominees because we have to remember that there is
currently a director of the FBI, Christopher Wray, who does have years left in his term.
And so it would take Donald Trump actually becoming president to get rid of Christopher Wray, or this could really get underway in terms of a
confirmation process for Kash Patel.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Christopher Wray's term, we should note, ends in 2027. And we should also note that Christopher Wray, an FBI director, that Trump
himself nominated and appointed as well before he turned against him.
Elaina Plott Calabro, thank you so much for the time. Appreciate it.
CALABRO: Thank you so much.
ASHER: All right. The U.S. Supreme Court is tackling another tough question. Should the state or parents have control of gender-affirming care
for transgender children? We'll get into that after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:45:07]
ASHER: All right. Arguments in the landmark case before the U.S. Supreme Court have just wrapped up. The High Court is considering Tennessee's ban
on gender-affirming care for minors, including hormone therapy and gender- affirming surgeries. Critics call it an unconstitutional form of sex discrimination.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Some lawmakers say it protects minors who don't fully understand the consequences of such procedures. A verdict is expected
sometime next year.
Well, for many parents, banning gender-affirming care is a threat to their children's well-being. One family moved to a different state to get the
care their child needs, only to have that put in jeopardy.
Gabe Cohen spoke with them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So what am I looking at here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My pride flag. This shows to the world that I don't want to hide and pretend to be someone else. I want to be me.
SARAH HALUF, KATIE'S MOTHER: Our child should have the same rights as any other child. Because she's transgender, doesn't make her any different.
COHEN (voice-over): 12-year-old Katie and her family moved across the country last year to flee state restrictions on their daughter's rights. At
her parents' request, we're not showing her face, and we're using an alternate name.
S. HALUF: I don't have the answer of why people hate her and have never met her. Where is Katie allowed to exist? How is she allowed to exist?
EREZ HALUF, KATIE'S FATHER: Is she allowed to exist?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We won't be changing your children's gender with their transgender brazenness.
COHEN (voice-over): Transgender rights have become one of the biggest flashpoints in this country's culture wars, marked in many cases by flat-
out lies and conspiracies.
TRUMP: There are some places. Your boy leaves the school, comes back a girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kamala supports taxpayer-funded sex changes for prisoners.
COHEN (voice-over): Republicans spent more than $200 million on anti-trans ads before the election.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kamala's for they, them. President Trump is for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a hundred percent BS.
S. HALUF: It's sowing fear. And then by doing that, you're sowing hate. And all of this comes back to people like our child. We thought that by leaving
Missouri and coming to Maryland that we would be safe. And now we're being threatened with anti-trans legislation on a federal level.
COHEN (voice-over): At least 26 states, including Missouri, have passed restrictions on gender-affirming care for minors.
S. HALUF: This was their final protest in Jefferson City. We did everything we could to fight this. And there was nothing that we could do to change
their minds.
We moved to Maryland to be able to access gender-affirming care for Katie. What that looks like is therapy services, it's clothing, it's haircuts. And
at this age, it is a hormone blocker to prevent her from going through puberty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my hormone blocker right here.
COHEN: Could that treatment be reversed at some point?
S. HALUF: Yes, absolutely. It's really a pause button. Katie gets more time to live in the body that she has now.
TRUMP: On day one, I will revoke Joe Biden's cruel policies on so-called gender-affirming care.
COHEN (voice-over): Trump has promised federal restrictions on transgender rights, including far stricter rules about gender-affirming care,
especially for minors.
One trans rights organization saw a nearly 700 percent increase in calls to their crisis hotline after the election.
COHEN: What would happen if your daughter didn't get that care?
S. HALUF: She would end up going through puberty. And it would be traumatizing to her to see all of those things happen to her body.
COHEN: I know you get some treatment from doctors, from other care. What would happen if you didn't get that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would be upset and scared.
E. HALUF: In the LGBTQ community, the suicide rate is high for those who are not being supported by their caregivers.
S. HALUF: We want her to survive childhood.
COHEN (voice-over): So families like Katie's are trying to prepare for what's ahead, even drafting an asylum application.
S. HALUF: We have to start thinking about a backup plan.
E. HALUF: If push comes to shove, we will need to go north. We'll go to Canada.
COHEN: What would it take for your family to say, we need to leave this country?
S. HALUF: A federal health care ban would likely be the moment we know that it's time to leave here.
COHEN: What is this symbolized to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Freedom and rights. This proves that everybody has their own rights to be themselves.
COHEN (voice-over): Gabe Cohen, CNN, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:33]
GOLODRYGA: A stowaway who snuck on a commercial flight from New York to Paris is on her way back to the U.S. right now.
ASHER: Yes. This video, take a look here, actually shows the moment she was confronted by flight crew last week. The 57-year-old Russian boarded the
flight without a ticket during the busy U.S. Thanksgiving holiday travel rush.
CNN's Polo Sandoval joins us live now from New York's JFK.
I mean, listen, this is a remarkable story because I'm from overseas and, you know, obviously I live in the United States. There is heavy security in
terms of boarding an international flight, getting through all the different layers and all the different gate agents. It's not an easy thing
to do.
GOLODRYGA: It's not "Home Alone." Yes. It's not a movie.
ASHER: It's not "Home Alone." The fact that she's actually able to do this in 2025, beggars belief. Just explain to us what happens when she lands
back in the U.S.
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And you get in the wrong line and you're often yelled at, right, to get in the right one.
And by many accounts now, according to investigators who have actually had an opportunity to review that surveillance footage that was shot here at
JFK, a little over a week ago when the initial stowaway incident happened. It appears that this 57-year-old woman bypassed ID checks. Not just on one,
but two separate occasions.
The first is she was approaching that security TSA checkpoint, pre- boarding, essentially used a dedicated lane for flight crews to then go around with the TSA officers that usually has to see your boarding pass.
And then that woman proceeded to go through the security screening.
Basically, she and her bags were cleared of anything potentially dangerous. She then made her way, according to surveillance footage, and what we're
hearing from sources, to the gate where then she used that busy, pre- Thanksgiving rush to blend in with one of the boarding groups and then eventually made her way onto that plane that took her to Paris eight days
ago.
Eight days later, three attempts later, and it appears as if there's third one maybe the charm, our CNN colleague aboard that Paris to JFK flight, as
we speak. That's about halfway complete. It should be landing here at about four hours.
And we're told that this flight has continued, incident-free. She has, in some of the footage that her colleague has shared, this 57-year-old woman
is seen at the rear of the aircraft sitting in a center seat. She is flanked by security personnel. Though she's not detained. There's simply
there is a precaution.
She's sitting back, appears to be relaxing. Even appears to be listening to some music here, based on what is visible on her personal entertainment
system, has gotten up, used a lavatory, walked about the cabin. Again, incident-free.
[12:55:01]
A sharp difference in behavior from what took place on Saturday -- when video from a passenger shows her causing a disturbance before she boarded a
flight here to New York and that prompted authorities to remove her from the plane.
Then yesterday, she boards with an escort onto a Delta flight bound for New York and that's when Delta Airlines refused to allow her to fly. And here
we are 24 hours later.
Obviously some accommodations and agreement has been reached between French authorities and Delta Airlines clearly, and she is headed back to New York
where she is a green card holder. Though she holds a Russian passport.
ASHER: You know, I can't wait to hear how she was able to pull. I mean, this was not an easy thing to pull off. I mean, perhaps she has attempted
it more than once, but the fact that she actually managed to do it is incredible.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Every ticket is scanned before you get on a plane. It's crazy and see if she's facing any legal consequences at all.
SANDOVAL: I'll leave you -- I'll leave you with this. There will be a team of federal agents here ready to receive her. Again though she's not in
custody. She will be interviewed and then eventually that decision will be made whether or not to actually press any potential charges against her.
ASHER: All right. Polo Sandoval, thank you.
GOLODRYGA: And that does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. Thanks so much for (TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES) is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:00:00]
END
