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One World with Zain Asher
Russia Detains Uzbek Suspect Over General's Assassination; Hamas Expresses Optimism For Gaza Deal Amid Obstacles; House Ethics Panel To Release Report On Matt Gaetz; House Republicans Call For Criminal Probe Into Liz Cheney; U.S. Supreme Court Agrees To Hear Case Over TikTok Ban; Ghana's Supreme Court Rejects Challenges To Anti-LGBT Bill; Kurdish Groups, Pro- Turkish Factions Vie For Control In Syria; Drone Detection Tech Sent To New Jersey Military Facilities; Aired 12-1p ET
Aired December 18, 2024 - 12:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:29]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: A suspect has been named and Russia is vowing revenge. ONE WORLD starts right now.
Significant updates on the killing of a top Russian general, who Russia thinks is to blame.
And former congressman Matt Gaetz responds to a CNN report that a House Committee will now release their report on his alleged misconduct.
And to couples who work together, stay together. Meet the couple who took their romance from the mountains of Bolivia to the main streets of New
York.
Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Zain is off today. You are watching ONE WORLD.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is in Brussels at this hour, meeting with European leaders to discuss the situation in Ukraine, where the
possibility of deploying peacekeeping troops in his country might be on the table.
The meeting comes one day after Russia accused Kyiv of what it called a terrorist attack, killing a top Russian general and his aide. Russian
authorities wasted no time in arresting a suspect. They say a 29-year-old from Uzbekistan confessed to the killing.
Russian investigators say he was recruited by Ukraine and was offered a reward to kill Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov. The general died in a bomb
blast outside his Moscow apartment early Tuesday. These pictures were taken in the moments just leading up to the blast. Russian officials are vowing
to take revenge for the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IGOR KOROTCHENKO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, NATIONAL DEFENSE MAGAZINE (through translator): Revenge is a dish that has to be served cold. So let's set
aside all the talking and red lines. Let's just wait when the retribution comes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: CNN's Fred Pleitgen has more from Moscow.
We don't have report. For that. I thought we had a report from Fred.
Meantime, mediators are intensifying efforts to broker a ceasefire in Gaza, as Israel continues to pound the Palestinian enclave. Health officials say
Israeli airstrikes killed at least a dozen people there overnight. This amid fresh optimism for a ceasefire and hostage release deal.
CIA Director Bill Burns is expected to return to the region this week, and all parties, including Hamas, are cautiously optimistic. The U.S. National
Security Adviser tells MSNBC, negotiators are working on the details.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: They are working through the names of hostages who would come out in the first phase, the names of the
prisoners who would be released as part of the exchange. And then some specific details about the disposition of Israeli forces during the
ceasefire.
So, small details, but those can be worked out. The big picture question is, is Hamas prepared to just finally say, yes, let's do it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: CNN's Jeremy Diamond reports from Jerusalem.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, there is optimism in the air, significant diplomatic activity in the region, and a clear sense of
momentum towards a potential hostage and ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. But will there actually be a deal?
That is indeed the question at this moment, as we are seeing a number of officials arriving in the Middle East to try and get this deal across the
finish line. The latest arrival in the region appears to be the CIA Director Bill Burns, who has been the top U.S. official in these
negotiations for months now.
He often travels and arrives in the region at critical junctures in the process. And this does indeed appear to be one of those critical moments
yet again, following visits by the National Security Adviser, Jake Sullivan, last week.
President Biden's top Middle East adviser, Brett McGurk, also in the region. And, of course, we've seen an Israeli delegation, Hamas
delegations, in both Cairo as well as in Doha, Qatar.
And accompanying this flurry of diplomatic activity, you also have the rhetoric. We've heard optimism from the Americans, from the Israelis, from
all sides, really, saying that they believe that we are closer than ever to a deal.
Hamas also joining that optimistic rhetoric yesterday in a statement saying that they believe a deal is, quote, possible. A Hamas source also saying
that the state of talks is, quote, positive and optimistic.
But they are also offering a note of caution, as so many others involved in the process are as well.
[12:05:04]
Hamas saying that a deal is possible as long as Israel does not continue to make additional last-minute demands in this process. And all sides are
really urging caution, even as they are sounding an optimistic note, because we have seen so many times before these two sides get very, very
close to a potential agreement, but ultimately a deal not falling through.
But officials in the region believe that conditions are now at their ripest for an agreement to actually take place. And there's no question that it is
very much needed. As we are watching in Gaza over the last 24 hours, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, 38 people have been
killed, more than 200 have been injured.
And, of course, the humanitarian conditions in Gaza certainly not improving. Much needed aid would get in if a ceasefire were to go in place.
And then, of course, there are those 100 hostages still held in the Gaza Strip, about half of whom Israel believes are still alive.
Their fate, of course, also hanging in the balance.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: We want to take you back to our top lead story this hour, and that is Russia making an arrest following the assassination of one of its
top generals. Fred Pleitgen has more from Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Russian state media has named the suspect that the Russian Investigative Committee says
has been arrested as 29-year-old Uzbek citizen, Akhmad Kurbanov.
Now, the Russian authorities are saying that he is suspected in connection with the assassination of Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov, who, of course,
was killed when leaving his apartment yesterday by a bomb blast.
And the Russian investigators are saying that they believe that Kurbanov was recruited by Ukraine's intelligence service, the SBU. They say that he
was told to get a electric scooter and then was given a homemade bomb and parked the scooter with the bomb in front of the door that later the
general, together with an aide, would come out of.
Now, as part of this plot, the Russians say that Kurbanov also got a car- sharing car -- rented a car-sharing car, and parked it outside of the door of that building as well. They say that that car was outfitted with a
camera that had a live feed that went straight to the city of Dnipro in Central Ukraine where it was monitored by Ukrainian security services.
And when the general left his building, that is when the bomb was detonated. Obviously, General Kirillov was killed yesterday when he left
his apartment building. That blast seemed to be massive.
When we were on the scene, we saw that even in the houses adjacent to where this blast took place, that windows had been shattered there.
Russian politicians obviously irate about all this. The Kremlin came out and commented on all of this for the first time today. The Kremlin
spokesman saying that all of this shows that Kyiv, as he put it, does not shy away from terrorist methods.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Fred for that report.
Turning back to the U.S., Matt Gaetz is firing back at a House Ethics panel that has voted to release a potentially explosive report on the former
congressman.
Just a short time ago, Gaetz posted on social media that allegations of sexual misconduct, drug use and bribery are untrue. But he admitted that
it's quote, embarrassing, though not criminal, that I probably partied, womanized, drank and smoked more than I should have earlier in my life.
Gaetz posted soon after CNN exclusively reported that the ethics panel would release its report in the coming days. It is a stunning reversal, of
course, for the panel.
CNN's Manu Raju has more on this breaking news.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In a major reversal, the House Ethics Committee voted secretly earlier this month to release the
report into Matt Gaetz. Of course, he's the former congressman, someone who Donald Trump initially chose to be his attorney general, and allegations
that they have investigated for years of sexual misconduct, about illicit drug use, about accepting bribes and impermeable gifts, all of which Gaetz
has denied.
But those allegations were enough to essentially derail his pick to be attorney general. A lot of Republican senators had concerns about it,
wanted to see the details of the report.
And while he is being considered as the attorney general candidate, that's when the Republicans voted on the House Ethics Committee to scuttle this
report to derail it, to push it, to essentially not allow it to come out publicly.
But there's been a change over the last several weeks. Gaetz is no longer considered to be the attorney general candidate. He withdrew from that
position. And this report was still being finalized behind the scenes.
Ultimately, the committee met again behind closed doors earlier this month and then voted, we are told, to release a report. That's just some
Republicans may have had a change of heart here. Republicans, many of them, had pretty frosty relationships with Matt Gaetz over the years. Gaetz, of
course, famously led the ouster of Kevin McCarthy as speaker last year.
A lot of Republicans don't -- didn't like that or are still angry about that. And there are other issues as well that have divided him from many of
his colleagues. But these allegations undoubtedly will be serious. It could be an explosive report. And we expect it to be released on the final day of
voting, after the final day of voting, in this congressional year, which could be today, which could be tomorrow, which could potentially Friday or
even a little bit later.
[12:10:11]
But it is expected to come out before the end of this Congress and will be an explosive matter. And we'll see how it impacts Gaetz' career, as he
still has eyes on potentially other offices, or maybe even working in some capacity in the Trump administration. But a lot of people want to see this
report, a lot of Republicans and Democrats alike, and they could get a chance to see that in just a matter of days.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: That's Manu Raju reporting for us. Donald Trump today is meeting with tech billionaire, Jeff Bezos, the founder and chairman of Amazon. The
two of them have not always gotten along. Trump has been very critical of "The Washington Post," which Bezos owns.
But a parade of tech moguls have been meeting with Trump in recent days, and Bezos recently said he wants to talk to Trump about easing up on
regulations in the tech industry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF BEZOS, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, AMAZON: I'm actually very optimistic this time around that we're going to see -- I'm very hopeful
about this -- his -- he seems to have a lot of energy around reducing regulation. And my point of view, if I can help him do that, I'm going to
help him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: During his campaign, Donald Trump also vowed to go after his political rivals, if re-elected, even threatening to turn the military on
those he called the enemy within.
Well, now it appears House Republicans are siding with Trump's retribution agenda and calling for their former colleague Liz Cheney to be criminally
investigated. Cheney served on the January 6th Select Committee that investigated the Capitol insurrection, and she is perhaps the most vocal
Republican critic of Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
Here's what Trump recently said about both the committee and Cheney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think those people committed a major crime and Cheney was behind it.
For what they did, honestly, they should go to jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: It is not the first time Cheney has been singled out by the incoming president. Just last month, he said that she should be fired upon.
Let's talk more about this. Rina Shah is a Republican strategist, and she joins me now live from Washington. Rina, it is good to see you again.
So, here we have another example of Donald Trump saying something controversial and quite dangerous. And then a few weeks later seeing
Republicans sort of fall in line here. And these are Republicans who were once upon a time fellow colleagues of Liz Cheney.
Let me give you more specifics on what they are saying should be investigated. This is the House Administration Subcommittee on Oversight.
And they said, she should be investigated for witness tampering, accusing her of colluding with Cassidy Hutchinson, the former White House aide who
became the committee's star witness during the January 6 Committee hearings.
What do you make of this? And then the subsequent tweet or post at 3:30 this morning from Donald Trump saying that she believes -- that he
believes, that she should actually, that she may actually face a lot of trouble in the days ahead.
RINA SHAH, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: President-elect Trump could not be more ill-advised in this moment. Going after former Congresswoman Liz Cheney
isn't just a move that doubles down on what I call stupid. It is one that frankly has no logic behind it and can't in the follow-up because there is
no crime that has been committed here.
He is going after this former congresswoman not only because of her last name, the Cheney last name signals an old Republican Party, an
establishment Republican Party that we all know that Trump wants to show that he has blown up and remade entirely in his image.
But going a step further, the fact that Cheney became so notable in her -- in her going after Trump in that January 6th Select Committee is really the
only thing here that he continues to gripe over.
And whether that investigation was conducted properly or improperly isn't, I believe, material value to anything moving that his administration could
do. So if I were advising the president-elect, which I'm not, I would just say, let this one go.
GOLODRYGA: Is that basically all we can hope for, though, that the president-elect will let this one go? And I ask because, in the sort of now
years of covering Donald Trump, it doesn't appear that we have quite figured out how to cover him best. And that is whether to take him
seriously and not literally or literally and not seriously.
And it seems that Republicans in Congress find themselves in the same conundrum. So, what do you make of the current dynamics and the kind of
behavior we can expect in a second Trump administration?
SHAH: Well, on the one hand, Bianna, I have seen the president-elect behave differently than the Trump we have known. In some ways, he -- he's almost
settled into a version of himself that wants to carve out this legacy that not just delivers blows to the Democrats, kind of pushing back on
everything they've done in the past four years, saying that, you were no longer wanted by the American people, and now you are getting kicked out
after he was kicked out in 2020, right?
[12:15:20]
But what I think is really fully on display here is party loyalty. This Republican Party functions as one that is fully in -- is not adaptable but
is fully remade in an image of authoritarianism. And what that means is that we start to see what could be constitutional norms torn down.
A select committee, such as the January 6th one in Congress, was stood up not just to take aim at Trump. In fact, it was stood up to show the
American people the facts of January 6th, 2021, to reveal those, much like the 9/11 commission did.
And so what I wanna say here is that when you see what's illustrated in some of Trump's picks, such as Kash Patel for FBI, you see two sides of
him. And that is who he continues to be. Reasonable one day, illogical the next.
And so what I think is really important here is that we go back to what is in the constitution. If there was a crime, then that crime -- you know, the
person guilty of that crime is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
What former Congresswoman Liz Cheney has done here is just done an investigation. And the great irony here, Bianna, is that Republicans are
going to use these next four years conducting investigations of their own from a congressional perch.
But what this all shows, and I think this is the most important point of all and the scariest, is that Trump is OK with jailing his opponents. And
to that I say, Mr. President-elect, you cannot do that. America is a great country that does not function like third world countries. We do not jail
people for exercising their First Amendment rights, which may not be in line with your opinions.
GOLODRYGA: It's also going to be a country and a government that he's going to have to keep functioning by working alongside Democrats, though they
have the majority in the House and in the Senate, it is by a slim margin, especially in the House. I believe it's just one seat difference between
Republicans and Democrats come Trump's inauguration and the new government that will be sworn in.
And the question is, let's take the CR now, that it appears we have a deal on the table to avoid a government shutdown on Friday. This is something
that has raised a lot of concern among some Republicans. They are not happy with the deal that Speaker Johnson made with Democrats in agreeing to this
CR, but it's going to be the reality that whatever speaker is going to be in charge come next year is going to have to face.
Do you think that Donald Trump will keep or will support Mike Johnson as speaker?
SHAH: I am continually hopeful for the Trump-Johnson relationship. It's been good so far. It's been one that seems to have mutual respect. I
wouldn't say admiration entirely, but that respect is important because then Trump can kind of pull back and say, hey, you do your job, which is
what essentially our system is designed to do. One branch check the other.
If Johnson is going to make a deal with people, then that is his prerogative as the head of that chamber of the legislative branch.
And what I see Trump doing right now is obviously he's still not taking the oath. Obviously, he is not in the White House where the loyalists around
him can start to fill his brain with other thoughts.
So I would just say this, the conservatives who are really mad about the continuing resolution and spending from the federal government, these are
the same conservatives that have always screamed about reckless spending.
What is going to change now in this next two years? That's what I'm looking for. And we frankly have no indication of what is going to change. I think
it'll continue to be business as usual because that is what Congress is designed to do, is to essentially stop and fill gaps. And we're just seeing
Congress do that more and more. It's not going to change until we see systemic reform with Congress, which hasn't happened. And Trump getting
back in office doesn't automatically do that.
So I share this to say, anybody who's upset about Trump re-entering the White House, there is still tremendous hope that this Congress, though
it'll be fully led by Republicans, can still achieve things for the American people and get the work that they're tasked with done.
GOLODRYGA: It'll likely have to do that. And the only way it'll be able to do that successfully is by working across the aisle with their democratic
colleagues as well, which has proven to be quite difficult in the years recently.
Rina Shah, thank you so much.
SHAH: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Well, the U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear arguments from TikTok over its potential ban next month. Justices will decide whether a
controversial ban on the social media app violates the First Amendment.
[12:20:05]
Now, this adds a major case to the docket just before President Donald Trump's takes office.
CNN's chief Supreme Court analyst, Joan Biskupic, joins us now from Washington. And, Joan, this decision to hear TikTok's challenge comes just
days before a January 19th deadline to sell or be shut down. I believe that the court will be hearing from them on January 10th.
Is this a surprise decision? And what do you make of the fact that the court did not ask the government to respond to this application as well?
JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: It's good to see you, Bianna. I mean, clearly they know that they're facing a ticking clock of
that deadline of January 19th and they probably thought they're going to have to hear it anyway. Might as well take it up now, ask for expedited
briefing. Everything will be due into them by January 3rd and then as you said the arguments on January 10th.
Think of what's at stake here. It's a major First Amendment case. It will affect some 170 million users of TikTok in America. And it's a big First
Amendment question.
So the justices probably thought they're going to have to take it and they're going to have to decide it fast. There was a request from TikTok,
Bianna, to put the law on hold, to not let it take effect on January 19th, and the justices said that they would wait to consider that part of the
request.
But as you know, this all traces back to an April law passed by a bipartisan Congress signed by President Biden that said that TikTok would
have to be banned in the U.S. unless it divested itself of Chinese ownership.
TikTok, Incorporated is an American company, but the ultimate parent company here is ByteDance, which is owned partly by China.
And when that law was passed, it responded to years of concern, national security concerns that China could manipulate the content or collect users'
data.
So I have to tell you that the federal government made a very good case in a lower court, and a lower court decided earlier this month to let the law
stand. So now it's all in the hands of the nine justices and all in their hands to act very quickly. Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: So, despite agreeing to hear this case, the deadline, as of now, of January 19th, still is in place.
Joan Biskupic, thank you so much.
BISKUPIC: Absolutely. Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Well, just ahead on ONE WORLD, Ghana's Supreme Court weighs in on a harsh piece of anti-LGBT legislation. What the justices decide, that's
just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:25:19]
GOLODRYGA: Ghana is on its way to signing a harsh piece of anti-LGBT legislation into law. The Supreme Court dismissed two separate cases that
challenged the legality of a restrictive anti-LGBT bill passed earlier this year by Parliament.
The bill intensifies a crackdown on the rights of LGBT people and anyone promoting gay, lesbian or other non-conventional sexual or gender
identities.
CNN's Larry Madowo reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If it is signed into law, this bill will be one of the strictest anti-LGBT laws anywhere in Africa. And that is
saying something. Though, its name is much more innocent sounding, the Human Sexual Rights and Family Values Bill, that's its official name, and
it was supported by Christian, Muslim and traditional leaders in Ghana. It passed unanimously in parliament. That explains just how popular it is.
And many in Ghana are supportive of the Supreme Court essentially deciding that they cannot stop it until it's officially a law. I've been reporting
in Ghana twice this year and I know that many people support this bill.
But activists, those that work in the LGBT human rights space say even before it has become a law, there are already serious consequences.
ABENA TAKYIWAA MANUH, SENIOR FELLOW, CENTER FOR DEMOCRATIC GOVERNANCE: It is a sad day and it has implications for the LGBT community. Even without
the passage of the bill, people have been attacking members of a certain community. And I think that just this pronouncement, this kind of
formalism, this resort to constitutionalism, actually put at risk the life and health of certain members of the community, and of course, some of us
who are human rights defenders.
MADOWO: Ghana's outgoing president, Nana Akufo-Addo, has less than three weeks left in office, so if he does not sign it, he would kick the can down
the road and leave that as a problem for the incoming administration of the president-elect, John Mahama.
Amnesty West Africa asking him not to sign it into law, saying it is not just infringed on the rights of one group but on the rights of all. But one
of the lawmakers who was the biggest supporter of this bill helped bring it to parliament.
Sam George tweeted that it is done to God be the glory. Gay sex in Ghana was already punishable with up to three years in prison. But this makes it
even harder to even identify as LGBTI in Ghana. It criminalizes the promotion of LGBT rights in the country. And that is why it's getting --
it's getting a lot of criticism.
However, the finance ministry in Ghana had already warned that if this were to become law, Ghana risked losing out on $3.8 billion from the World Bank
and another $3 billion from the IMF. These are funds the country badly needs for an economic revival.
But for the men on the street, they think it needs to become law. Larry Madowo, CNN, Nairobi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: A high-profile Iranian women's rights campaigner is out of prison temporarily and speaking to CNN.
Narges Mohammadi won the Nobel Peace Prize for her activism in 2023. She's serving multiple sentences amounting to decades in Tehran's torturous Evin
Prison after various convictions.
This month, she was given a three-week release to recover from surgery, and she spoke exclusively with our colleague, Christiane Amanpour.
Christiane began by asking about the moment she was released on medical leave.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARGES MOHAMMADI, IRANIAN NOBEL PEACE LAUREATE (through translator): The moment they led me in the ambulance and I saw the streets, I felt
liberated. And I felt I could see a woman who was crossing the road without a headscarf. And they recognized me. And they greeted me. And I started
chanting, woman, life, freedom.
And I felt that this is not a movement that is going to lose its strength, and it's still going strong because our women are very strong. And I was
filled with joy to see our women like that.
And I greeted freedom because I realized I was not surrounded by guards and I could leave prison. But it was -- I had a kind of dual feeling about
leaving prison.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I understand what you're saying, but I'm also -- I mean, I'm just so amazed that you would be
leaving prison for only a period of time, you're jailed for defying the state, and yet, you still come out and you shout the slogan, woman, life,
freedom.
[12:30:05]
You're on an international television interview right now that will be shown all over the world and in the United States, and you're still
standing up for what you believe in.
Are you not afraid of the consequences?
MOHAMMADI (through translator): I have been tried for nine times but, you know, and they continue to convict me of various crimes. But I think the
path that I have chosen will never stop, not even the prison walls. And all these convictions can ever stop me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: The embodiment of bravery and fearlessness. And you can see the full interview with Narges Mohammadi today on "AMANPOUR" in about 30
minutes time. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
And as Syria's new leaders try to establish international legitimacy and build a transitional government, in some parts of the country, fighting
continues.
In the north, Kurdish groups and pro-Turkish factions are vying for control. The Kurdish-led soldiers known as the SDF helped the U.S. defeat
ISIS. But Turkey has long considered the SDF to be its enemy. And Washington is now concerned about a possible ISIS resurgence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SULLIVAN: There is an enormous opportunity now that the butcher Assad is gone, for Syria to build a better future. But as you said, there are huge
risks. And the single biggest risk I see is that ISIS comes back because ISIS wants to take advantage of any vacuum or instability in Syria
following the civil war. So the U.S. has to be laser-focused on suppressing the threat of ISIS.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[12:35:21]
GOLODRYGA: Complicating matters, Turkey and the U.S., NATO allies who were both opposed to the Assad regime are backing those rival forces in Syria.
And now U.S. President-elect Donald Trump is weighing in on the tense situation along Syria's border.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you ask Putin to give up Assad?
TRUMP: Well, I hadn't thought of it. I think we have to get on with our lives. We'll have to see what happens. But right now, Syria has a lot of --
you know, there's a lot of indefinites. Nobody knows what's going to happen with Syria.
I think Turkey is going to hold the key to Syria, actually. I don't think you've heard that from anybody else, but I've been pretty good at
predicting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: We'll discuss this more with our guest after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Time now for The Exchange. My conversation with Soner Cagaptay. He is the author of, "A Sultan in Autumn: Erdogan Faces Turkey's
Uncontainable Forces."
He's also the director of the Turkish Research Program at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. And he joins me now live from Washington.
Soner, thank you so much for joining us.
SONER CAGAPTAY, DIRECTOR, TURKISH RESEARCH PROGRAM AT THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: Pleasure.
GOLODRYGA: So let's talk about what The Wall Street Journal reported yesterday, and that is senior U.S. officials saying that Turkey and its
militia allies are building up forces along the border between Turkey and Syria in Syria's northeast, and that is, of course, raising alarm amongst
many in the Kurdish resistance fighters there, the SDF forces along with U.S. forces. The Turkey may be preparing for some sort of invasion or
incursion into that area.
[12:40:04]
How warranted are these concerns?
CAGAPTAY: So the -- there has been a revolution in Syria executed mostly by Turkey and Turkish back forces. The Assad regime fell in less than two
weeks, something that many people thought would never happen. So Turkey has a lot of influence in Damascus now. And I think Ankara wants to end Syria's
decentralization and stitch the country back together.
For that, Turkey is supporting HTS, which has taken power in Damascus. And it also wants to see Syria's autonomous militia and entities come back
under Damascus rule.
Now, the problem here is, of course, the U.S. government has relied on the Kurdish SDF to fight ISIS. And the U.S. government, while it supports
Syria's re-centralization, also wants to make sure that the counter-ISIS struggle is not undermining this process.
I think while Ankara and Washington are working together to stabilize the government in Damascus, they're also competing to find out a solution that
will be acceptable to both in the East, including in the SDF governed areas.
GOLODRYGA: And this is coming at a really critical moment here in terms of U.S. leadership. We're in the midst of a lame duck, really, period, for the
Biden administration. And we saw Secretary of State Blinken in Turkey just days ago trying to broker a ceasefire between the Syrian Kurds and the
Kurdish-backed rebels in the Kobani. And that collapsed recently, just a few days ago.
And we yet to have a definitive policy or any sense of continuity in terms of what a Biden -- a Trump administration will look like specifically as it
relates to Syria.
How much does that complicate the situation there right now? And whether or not we will see any sort of incursion in the weeks to come with Turkey
perhaps taking advantage of this transition period in the U.S.?
CAGAPTAY: A little bit. I think Turkey wants to wrap up whatever it's doing before January 20th, before Trump take over -- takes over.
I think President Erdogan in Ankara wants to get along well with President Trump. The two leaders during Trump's first term had a good relationship.
And I think that can be -- we can see that again.
But before we get there, I think Ankara is also looking at the new dynamics in Syria. So much of Eastern Syria when there was Assad dictatorship in
power, was governed under a model where you had a Kurdish group that Turkey opposes, that kind of ruled these areas in a consensus of public support by
conservative, religiously conservative Arab tribes and Kurdish populations.
That consensus has now broken down because earlier these Arab tribes did not want to live under Assad regime control. Now Assad is out. I think that
given a choice, these tribes would rather live under Damascus than under the Kurdish group.
And so the popular base of SDF is imploding. And I think Ankara's pressure is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. I think that we're
going to see SDF-led areas shrinking in size in the coming days, perhaps to Syria's purely Kurdish-majority areas in the country's extreme northeast.
I don't think we'll see a Turkish incursion. I think this will happen through negotiations between the new government in Damascus led by the HTS.
It will be supported by the tribal Arabs who live in the desert, who have so far agreed to live under SDF rule, but who now are opting to live under
HTS rule in Damascus.
So we're going to see a process of Syria's re-centralization in which there could still be a role for SDF to play, especially in terms of containing
ISIS and maintaining prison camps, but that'd be limited to the extreme Northeast of the country. A much smaller footprint for the SDF is what I'm
predicting going forward.
GOLODRYGA: And that begs the question of what happens to U.S. influence in the region as well. And the top concern is the reconstitution of ISIS,
which SDF, alongside some 900 U.S. forces, have been fighting against the last few years.
We'll have to leave it there, Soner Cagaptay. Thank you so much for your time.
CAGAPTAY: It's a pleasure. Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Thank you.
Well, U.S. President Biden is trying to calm growing fears over recent drone sightings reported across the Eastern U.S. He told reporters Tuesday
that authorities are checking out the reports, but he says there's apparently nothing nefarious going on.
CNN's Pete Muntean spoke with experts and New Jersey residents about the mysterious sightings.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We are on the lookout for drones with drones where fears first took off, New Jersey.
Ocean County Sheriff Sergeant Kevin Fennessy is one of about a dozen drone officers responding to calls and now tracking flights from inside this
major Crimes Command Center now turned into a drone war room.
KEVIN FENNESSY, OCEAN COUNTY SHERIFF: See, it's wild the amount of air traffic over New Jersey, and especially over Ocean County.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): The sergeant says, sure, many of the calls the department gets are actually airplanes, helicopters, medevacs, planets,
even stars. But they have seen things they just cannot explain.
[12:45:07]
A sheriff's lookout drone tethered to the ground captured this video.
FENNESSY: We had something coming at us. And as it's coming at us, it stops, you know, it does like a 180 in the air and then drives away. Then
comes back and does like a giant "U" around us. So that's not normal for aircraft.
MUNTEAN: So this is really happening?
FENNESSY: We think so. You know, it's definitely something that whatever we're seeing, we can't figure out what it is.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): The federal government reiterated Tuesday that the vast majority of purported drone sightings are in fact airplanes or drones
flying legally with no threat to public safety.
But don't say that to the folks on the Seaside Heights Boardwalk, who were not shy to tell me about what they have seen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's drones. Too many people have seen them to it not be real.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I haven't seen -- I do think it's legitimate, but I don't believe that nobody knows where they're coming from.
MIKE WEST, WRITER AND UAP ANALYST: I haven't seen any legitimate drone sightings in this current flat around New Jersey.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): Science writer and conspiracy expert, Mick West, investigates possible drone sightings and says that you can too.
WEST: If you get the details, the date, the time, and the location, you can actually look up what was in the sky at that point and look at what
direction they were looking in. And you can see, you know, that it was actually just a plane.
MUNTEAN: We're on the Boardwalk, the sun is set, and the sky has really come alive. You can see almost why folks are reporting so many drone
sightings.
Off in the distance over the Atlantic Ocean there, I can see several planes. I'm corroborating here with the same app that they use over in the
Command Center. This is called ADS-B Exchange, showing within about a 20- mile view, planes broadcasting their position live.
There's an Atlas Air cargo flight that just left, not too far away from here, going out over the Atlantic Ocean. There's a Delta flight that's
coming in over the Atlantic, turning north to go into JFK. And then another really bright light above those two, that is Jupiter. But it's the things
that cannot be explained so easily that have folks here really concerned.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): Deputies like Kevin Fennessy hope the truth is still out there.
FENNESSY: We're not drone hunters. We're just trying to see if we can figure out what's going on, where they're coming from, and try to put this
to bed.
MUNTEAN: The Pentagon is sending drone systems to two military bases here in New Jersey. Naval Weapons Station Earle is the closest, only about 25
miles away from where we are.
The goal is to identify and track drones, not shoot them down, rather jam the signal between the controller and the drone in hopes that the drone
essentially lands itself.
Pete Muntean, CNN, Seaside Heights, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:20]
GOLODRYGA: The Oxford English dictionary says brain rot has been voted word of the year. You know, scrolling endlessly on your phone, well, it does
contribute to brain rot.
CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, explains why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It can change your brain. There have been some recent studies on this. It's really interesting. And
we've known for some time that the sort of doom scrolling or whatever you call it, more than three hours being on social media for teens is
associated with doubling depression risk. So that's obviously concerning.
The average amount of time people are spending, teens are spending on social media is five hours. Just three hours can double your risk of
depression.
But what's more interesting, I think, lately is this fact that they've measured these changes that occur in the brain. So for example, the outer
part of your brain called the cortex, the gray matter, that can thin in response to a lot of social media use or just the scrolling constantly.
That can affect your cognition.
But also the area in between the gray matter is called the white matter, and that can also be affected, and that can slow down your speed of
processing.
So scientists are starting to get a better idea of sort of this brain fog thing that people describe and finding out what is happening in your brain,
what sort of causes that, and those are two things that might be sort of being attributed to that.
There's two main things and these studies are really fascinating, I got to say, if you look into this. First of all, we're just surrounded by it. So
the immersion in all of these different platforms for adults and teens is very significant.
But there's three main criteria that the algorithms really look at. One is this idea that if you've watched five videos of the same thing, you're more
likely to watch another one as opposed to just watching one.
So if they get you going two or three of them, how much you watch is going to make a big difference. How similar is the content? They actually want to
give you very similar content to keep you going on this. It's really interesting when you dig into the algorithms.
And even where you're watching the content or consuming the content. If you're doing it in a place where you're not as distracted, that's going to
keep you down the rabbit hole longer as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Both fascinating and frightening. Our thanks to Sanjay for that.
Well, now to a chance encounter that led to love, marriage, and a work partnership. Here's a story of a French traveler and an American
backpacker.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHELLE YOUNG, FOUNDER, UNTAPPED NEW YORK: So some people think mixing work and love can be a dangerous, maybe explosive mixture.
AUGUSTIN PASQUET, HUSBAND OF MICHELLE YOUNG: It's intense.
We just need to move the entrance. Can you help me with this?
YOUNG: I thought you were going to do that.
PASQUET: Being in love with the majority shareholder? Yes, it's OK.
YOUNG: I did fiddle with the operating agreement once.
PASQUET: The guests are coming in exactly one hour.
YOUNG: We met in Bolivia backpacking. I think when you're traveling, you're more open to putting yourself out there. That's sort of, in some ways, the
point of backpacking.
This is in the Bolivian salt flats.
PASQUET: She told me she was a cellist. And my grandmother was a cellist. We also shared a bond with the camera because we were using the same
camera.
YOUNG: We just had like a very fun, I would say PG evening with two groups of friends together. And then we went our separate ways.
I was already planning to do a study abroad program in Paris. And so when I got to Paris, I contacted him and said, I'm here. And we were together
almost right after I arrived.
PASQUET: That was our first date.
YOUNG: Yes. We have been married since 2014. And we've been working together officially since 2015.
Augustin and I run a magazine and tour company together.
My name is Michelle Young, and I founded Untapped New York. This tour Grand Central was one of the first tours we ever created.
I kind of roped him in slowly into joining my company.
PASQUET: I would come home from my corporate work, I would tell her, oh, I had a great day, you know, market share is going up. And then she'd tell
me, you know, I climbed to the top of this building today. And then I went into an abandoned big vault.
And I met all these cool people. And I was like, what am I doing with my life, you know? So at some point, I took the leap.
Usually working from home, from my office. And sometimes I find like you.
Yes. If there is any universal advice on how to work together as a couple, I think it's to separate clearly the rules and responsibilities.
[12:55:01]
YOUNG: Do you want to do the writing homework first or the math homework?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is easy-peasy?
YOUNG: It means it's very easy.
PASQUET: Yes. (INAUDIBLE)
YOUNG: I think we split things up very equally.
PASQUET: If I cook every day, including the grocery shopping and cooking, that's like a lot of hours, all right? So to make up for those hours, you
take all the other chores, and that's like cleaning, that's like --
YOUNG: Laundry.
PASQUET: Laundry. And even then, I think we're maybe a bit short, no?
YOUNG: On laundry?
PASQUET: No, on the bonds.
YOUNG: What? My job is to make our life interesting.
PASQUET: Yes, yes.
YOUNG: And fun.
Where should I put these flowers, Zsa-Zsa (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There.
PASQUET: We're hosting a (INAUDIBLE).
YOUNG: When you work together, the highs are really high. But when there's hard times, it can be doubly difficult.
I think that it's actually a wonderful thing to be able to implicitly, fully trust someone and to know that you're building something together for
the long haul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: They didn't make it look easy, but like she said, when the highs are high, they were really high. Love that story.
Well, that does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Bianna Golodryga. "AMANPOUR" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
