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One World with Zain Asher
Trump, Zelenskyy Exchange Accusations, Escalating Tensions; Putin: U.S. and Russia Must Build Trust To Resolve Ukraine; Pope Francis Battling Pneumonia; Measles Cases On The Rise In Texas; Reshaping The Government; More Than 60M Under Cold Weather Alerts Across The U.S.; NASCAR Eyes Clean Energy With Push For Electric Vehicles; Aired 12:00-1:00p ET
Aired February 19, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:28]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump lashes out at President Zelenskyy. ONE WORLD starts right now.
The two leaders have spent the day needling each other as relations between the U.S. and Russia thaw, Ukraine is left in the cold.
Plus, Pope Francis receives a visit from Italy's prime minister as the pontiff looks set for a lengthy hospital stay while he's treated for
pneumonia.
And an outbreak of measles sweeps across West Texas. We'll have the latest on the situation and how U.S. health authorities are handling it.
Hello everyone, live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Zain is off today. You are watching ONE WORLD.
For the past three years, the U.S. has been one of Ukraine's staunchest allies in its fight with Russia, providing more military aid than any other
country. But now, Washington and Kyiv are exchanging high-profile barbs, as Moscow delights in America's change of course.
On a social media post a short time ago, U.S. President Donald Trump just called the Ukrainian president a, quote, dictator without elections. And
warned that he better move fast or he would not have a country left.
Now, earlier, Volodymyr Zelenskyy said President Trump was living in a disinformation bubble after the U.S. president falsely claimed that Ukraine
had started the war with Russia. And he criticized the talks between the U.S. and Russia that took place in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday, claiming that
the Kremlin has been welcomed back onto the global stage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I believe the United States of America helped Putin to come out of years of
isolation.
I would like Trump's team to be more truthful. All of this definitely doesn't affect Ukraine in a positive way. They are letting Putin out of
isolation. And I think Putin and Russia are really happy because they are involved in discussions. And yesterday, there were signals that they are
the victims. That is something new.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: President Vladimir Putin, meanwhile, is welcoming the talks.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): In general, as I was told, the atmosphere was very friendly. As our participants told me,
there were completely different people on the American side who were open to the negotiation process without any bias, without any condemnation of
what had been done in the past.
In any case, there was nothing of the sort in the bilateral contacts, but they were set up for joint work, open to joint work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: And here's what the U.S. president had to say afterwards about Ukraine being left off the guest list.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years. You should have ended it three
years. You should have never started it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Now, it all comes as the Trump administration's envoy, Keith Kellogg, is in Kyiv for talks with the Ukrainian president.
CNN's Kevin Liptak is in Washington with more. Kevin, I guess we shouldn't be surprised by anything that this president tweets and posts at this
point. And yet, this most recent post is shocking, given what he -- how he described President Zelenskyy as a dictator. I mean, all of this seeming to
stem from the comments earlier today from President Zelenskyy aimed at Donald Trump.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. And I think this was, according to a White House official, Trump's direct response to Zelenskyy
saying that Trump lived in a space of disinformation.
But, you know, I don't think you can necessarily disconnect this from the enmity that Trump has felt towards Zelenskyy dating back to his first term
and the role that Zelenskyy played in his first impeachment trial. This is all wrapped up in Trump's view of Ukraine as sort of a problem that he
needs to fix right away.
But in doing so, he is very clearly parroting the accusations that have been coming from Moscow, not only about Zelenskyy himself and about
Zelenskyy being a dictator for not holding elections in the middle of a war, but also for the origins of the war itself. And you heard Trump just
yesterday accusing Zelenskyy essentially of starting the war in his own country. He didn't explain why. It's not clear what exactly he's talking
about. But it's very evident that Trump is now sort of executing this wholesale shift from the Biden administration's staunch support for Ukraine
and going back to what Putin himself has been saying about Zelenskyy essentially inviting this invasion himself.
[12:05:01]
And so I think the real question now is how all of this moves forward. As you noted, Keith Kellogg, the American envoy to -- is meant to be helping
resolve the conflict, is in Kyiv right now.
It's not exactly clear how Trump sort of expects this to end if he is engaging in this back and forth with Zelenskyy. Already what you've seen
from the American side is proposing these concessions in the war that also would seem to favor what Putin and Russia have been asking for, things like
preventing Ukraine from ever joining NATO, things like never sending American troops to act as a security guarantee in that country.
So through all of this, I think you see a very clear realignment of American priorities under Trump going forward. Of course, the next step in
all of this is this potential summit between Trump and Vladimir Putin. Trump just said yesterday that could potentially occur by the end of this
month.
I think the real fear, including among Republicans here in Washington who are watching all of this unfold with an incredible degree of skepticism, is
what Trump would agree to in such a summit. And clearly, he has made his intentions known through all of these comments about Zelenskyy and all of
the comments that he's made about how this war began and how it's unfolding.
And so I think they are watching this, certainly with a degree of skepticism, just as they're watching it with a degree of apprehension in
Kyiv and in Europe as well.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, no doubt. It's a shift not only, as you noted, from President Biden's policies, it's a shift from every single U.S. president,
both Republican and Democrat, going back to the end of the Second World War and their approach to the Soviet Union and now Russia for decades, which is
so shocking.
I mean, it's one thing for there to be some personality clashes between presidents. But when it comes to facts, the president just spewed a lot of
false talking points yesterday, from the origins of the war to who was to blame, to Volodymyr Zelenskyy's approval rating. I mean, there's legitimate
questions to be asked about when there would be presidential elections in Ukraine, but the irony is not lost on anyone that it's Russia who is
bringing this issue up about democratic election processes in another country.
What do you make of the fact that time and time again, we have President Trump seemingly regurgitating commentary and viewpoints told to him by
Vladimir Putin?
LIPTAK: Yes. And meanwhile, saying nothing about Putin himself, saying nothing about the state of democracy in Russia, saying nothing about what
actually prompted this war to begin with. You have not heard a single bad word from Trump about the president of Russia, which I think is notable.
And, you know, having covered so many American presidents dealing with Putin, specifically, not to mention the Soviet Union and presidents of
Russia before that, there has always been a degree of skepticism when you see the president sitting down for these summit talks, whether it was
President Biden in Geneva, whether it's President Obama meeting with Putin at various states. They're always approaching this as something of an
adversary.
Of course, Putin, obviously a former KGB agent, the American presidents who met with him knew that he was entering these talks looking to manipulate
them in some ways. And I think that is just absent from anything that Trump does when it comes to Russia.
And just talking about fact-checking, when you look at this post that Trump just made within the last couple of hours, he talks about the United States
spending $200 billion more than Europe. Well, that's not true, according to the Kiel Institute, which is a think tank in Germany, which has actually
found that Europe and its member nations have actually now started to outspend the United States when it comes to Ukraine.
He also says that Zelenskyy has admitted that half of the money that he sent to him is missing. It's not exactly clear what Trump is talking about
there. But even Keith Kellogg has said that, you know, the money that the United States has allocated for Ukraine may not have, you know, been sent
yet, but it is sort of being distributed at a pace that is normal and that is not suspicious in any way.
So you do continue to see the president use falsehoods and misstatements when he's talking about this crisis. But one thing you never hear the
president do is offer any criticism of Putin himself.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, at the very most, I think he said that he was wrong to start this war. And just a few weeks ago, he threatened additional
sanctions against Russia, which took a lot of people by surprise. But clearly, he seems to have walked that back and only really dangled carrots
at this point.
Kevin Liptak, thank you so much.
Well, as we mentioned, Vladimir Putin is putting a positive spin on the renewed talks with the U.S. He said there is no plan to exclude Ukraine
from negotiations on ending the conflict, but said the first step is building more trust between Moscow and Washington.
[12:10:08]
Putin described this week's talks as, quote, friendly and said he is eager to meet with Donald Trump to discuss a range of issues, but said the talks
need to be meaningful, not just for show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PUTIN (through translator): It's not just a question of drinking tea or coffee together, but that we have a team in place, not only about the
Ukrainian business, but to try and get to a decision which is mutually acceptable for both sides.
I've already spoken about this before for the presidency. He spoke about trying to put an end to the Ukrainian crisis as quickly as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: With more on the comments by Putin here, CNN's Fred Pleitgen for us in Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You just saw Vladimir Putin there, who seemed very optimistic about how those talks went
down, also saying that there were completely different people on the American side, obviously, meaning than during the Biden administration, and
that the new people who are now leading these negotiations are willing to listen to Russia. That's what we hear from all spheres right now of Russian
politics, is that they feel that they are being listened to and that the Trump administration is trying to understand them and in many ways is
understanding.
It was quite interesting, actually, to hear Vladimir Putin speak. He also said, of course, Ukraine would be part of the negotiations once they start
and when they take place. He also, of course, said that a meeting with Donald Trump is something that's high on the agenda, but it is something
that needs to be planned carefully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Fred Pleitgen for that.
For more on the view from Ukraine, Nick Paton Walsh joins me now live in Kyiv. And, Nick, we spoke yesterday. I know there was a lot of skepticism
and concern among many Ukrainians from the president on down as to how things unfolded over the last week in Europe.
Now these comments in the last 24 hours from President Trump and the back and forth between President Zelenskyy and President Trump, I would imagine
things are at an all-time low in terms of how Ukrainians are feeling about where they stand in bringing this war to an end.
And Nick, can you hear me? I think we may have audio issues with Nick. I apologize for that.
Alexander Gabuev, I hope he can hear me, is the Director of the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Center, and he joins me now live from Berlin.
Sasha, good to see you. I just spoke with you on Sunday. And you described the last week as a mix of New Year's and Christmas all in one for the
Kremlin in terms of how things have quickly shifted in their favor from the tone at the Trump administration. How do you even describe how Moscow must
be feeling about the last 12 hours?
ALEXANDER GABUEV, DIRECTOR, CARNEGIE RUSSIA EURASIA CENTER: I think Moscow is pretty happy and this 12 hours come on top of a very productive meeting
for the Russian side in Riyadh.
They spend about five hours together, five negotiators. Russia put together a very high caliber team. Whatever people think about Sergey Lavrov. He's a
very accomplished, seasoned diplomat who can be intimidating when he needs to and charming when he needs to. And I think that we saw in Riyadh a charm
offensive by the Russian team. And also Kirill Dmitriev, head of the Russian sovereign wealth fund that has contacts to Jared Kushner,
president's son-in-law, knows the royal family in Saudi Arabia, Russians come prepared, and five hours without an importation in English means a lot
of stuff.
To me, the surprising thing is that the U.S. launched the track on normalization of ties with Russia already, restoring the number of
employees in diplomatic missions, accepting ambassadors and so on. And then parallel track the setup to discuss Ukraine, but then in parallel, just
without waiting for the outcome of Ukraine negotiations, which is crucial and which is crux of the issue, and the reason why we're seeing this
breakdown in ties, Trump's team is already discussing economic opportunities that will be --
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
GABUEV: -- unlocked in partnership with Russia.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. That struck me too yesterday. It's one thing to say, let's reestablish just diplomatic ties, which one could say is perhaps
understandable for two of the world's largest nuclear powers.
But to go even further, I mean, there had never been a big history between these two countries business-wise in terms of trade. We know that a lot of
companies had frozen their businesses in Russia after Ukraine -- after Ukraine was invaded.
But for the U.S. to make such a big leap and visible concession, I mean, what message does that send to Ukraine and our European allies?
[12:15:04]
GABUEV: It's a horrible message and you see that the U.S. under this leadership is untrustworthy and shifting its priorities from, not only
President Biden, but decades of U.S. policy towards Russia, which was engagement at some point after collapse of the Soviet Union.
But as the country has taken increasingly darker turn invading its neighbors and violating international norms under Putin, particularly the
second (INAUDIBLE) peace rule, definitely the U.S. shifted to a more containment approach together with European allies and was helping Ukraine
to fend off this unprovoked illegitimate full-scale invasion that would lodge nearly three years ago.
Now that's all seems to be out of the window. And I think Russians feel very confident and very happy that, deal or no deal, they are getting what
they want. And even this fracturing in transatlantic ties and the fact that team Ukraine is not longer the same team as Team U.S. is amusing Putin a
lot.
GOLODRYGA: Amusing Putin. Interesting choice of words there. Also, interesting to hear from Vladimir Putin today, say that he doesn't think
they need mediators. And it would make sense, given that every single time he speaks with Donald Trump one-on-one, Donald Trump seems to be speaking
his language more than the other way around.
You had told me, over the weekend, that you think a summit between these two leaders could happen as soon as by the end of this month, even if it's
not in February but early March.
What could be the outcome of a meeting like that given the language that we've just heard from President Trump basically threatening President
Zelenskyy to be careful or he's going to lose his country?
GABUEV: We don't know what will happen, but I can tell you what the Russian game plan most likely for this negotiation is. And that's three scenario.
Plan A, which is the most beneficial, Russians and Americans agree on something. The Russian goal is to portray this potential relationship that
was unavailable under President Obama or President Biden. With Donald Trump and that relationship will deliver, let's say, trillions in investment into
Russian resources and benefits for American companies.
And Ukraine is a stumbling block to achieve that. So the U.S. and the West will need to make concessions to Putin's vision and solve that on Putin's
term, leaving Ukraine without meaningful security guarantees. And that's the desirable outcome.
If you agree to that, and if President Trump manages to really convince the Ukrainians and the Europeans to support it, that's a win. So you got what
you want. You keep the option to reinvade later when Trump is out of the White House, and you are on good side of Trump for the next four years. So
you've basically recruited them.
GOLODRYGA: So you just bought yourself.
GABUEV: Plan B is the same agreement.
GOLODRYGA: No. I'm just saying you just bought yourself time. Sorry. Go ahead.
GABUEV: Yes, exactly. You buy yourself time. You are in a much favorable position and you leave Ukraine weakened, indefensible, imploding, probably
with no meaningful investment because everybody who understands that you build a school or electricity facility and then Russian missile can strike
that couple of years down the road. Why would you put money into that?
Plan B is to get the same agreement with Trump, that would be rejected by President Zelenskyy in Europe. And that's good because then President
Trump is then and could pull out U.S. support for Ukraine. That's substantive. Intelligence sharing, weapons, money, diplomatic support. No
country can really feel the vacuum that will be left if the U.S. walk out of this conflict.
GOLODRYGA: I mean --
GABUEV: And then finally, the worst-case today. The worst-case scenario for the Russians is just to the talks will collapse, but Trump will be unable
to focus on containing Russia sanctions and so on. And the Russians will exploit their advantage on the battlefield to push Ukraine to a defeat.
GOLODRYGA: Just unbelievable scenarios that you laid out there. And I guess justifiably now, you understand why the German defense minister today
saying -- or foreign minister today saying, we're at an existential crossroads for security and peace in Europe. I mean, you lay out those
scenarios.
I have to think that the U.S. Congress, even though they're Republican majority, would intervene at some point. But all of that has yet to be
seen.
Alexander Gabuev, thank you so much. Appreciate the time.
GABUEV: Thanks, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Well, still to come for us, we're following growing concerns about Pope Francis' health as he battles pneumonia in a Rome hospital.
[12:20:57]
Plus, a growing outbreak of an easily preventable disease. Measles cases are on the rise in West Texas. And why health officials expect that the
number will only get bigger.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: The Vatican says Pope Francis has developed pneumonia in both lungs. It says the latest tests confirm what doctors have described as a
complex picture for the 88-year-old pontiff who has been hospitalized since last week.
Now, despite the diagnosis, the Vatican says he continues to be in good spirits. He even received a visit earlier today by Italy's prime minister
wishing him a speedy recovery.
CNN Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb joins us now from Rome.
So, Christopher, it's reassuring to hear that the pope still has a sense of humor. But what are we hearing from officials there and spokesmen from the
Vatican about how much longer they expect him to remain hospitalized?
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, we are into the sixth day of Pope Francis' hospitalization at the Gemelli behind me. We
don't have a clear timetable for how long the Pope is going to be in hospital.
All public audiences with the Pope have been cancelled for the coming days. But the Vatican have said that the Pope had a peaceful night. Last night,
he ate breakfast. A Vatican saw said that he's been sitting in a chair and he did receive that visit, as you say from Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni
who said that the pontiff was alert and reactive, that he still had his sense of humor. And we also heard last night the Pope is in good spirits.
However, it is a concerning situation because the Pope is 88 years old. He has part of his right lung missing from an operation when he was a young
man. And he has been vulnerable to respiratory infections in the past.
The key thing here is how the Pope responds to the treatment that he's getting at the Gemelli Hospital. That treatment has been changed a couple
of times, we've been told by the Vatican. But, obviously, it's critical that the Pope is able to show some improvement.
We are expecting a statement from the Vatican updating us about the Pope's health very soon and, obviously, we're looking at that very closely to see
what it says about the Pope's condition as he battles pneumonia in both of his lungs. Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Christopher Lamb for us. Thank you so much.
[12:25:59]
Coming up, Elon Musk and Donald Trump defend their plan to reshape the government, slashing agencies and jobs, as critics say they are actually
causing chaos. A report on what's happening at DOGE when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Welcome back TO ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
There are new developments regarding Elon Musk's so-called Department of Government Efficiency, even as questions swirl about the billionaire's
exact role at DOGE, as it's known.
A federal judge ruled -- excuse me. Ruled against a lawsuit brought by multiple democratic states to temporarily block Musk and his team from
accessing federal data systems.
Now, this comes as DOGE upends the federal workforce, gutting critical federal agencies, and firing thousands of workers.
President Trump is refusing to clarify Musk's official government role. In a joint interview, President Trump said the billionaire could be called an
employee, a consultant, quote, whatever you want. Musk says his job is to make sure the president's executive orders are carried out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, TRUMP PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: One of the biggest functions of the DOGE team is just making sure that the presidential executive orders are
actually carried out. And this is -- I just want to point out, this is a very important thing because the president is the elected representative of
the people. So it's representing the will of the people.
And if the bureaucracy is fighting the will of the people and preventing the president from implementing what the people want, then what we live in
is a bureaucracy and not a democracy.
[12:30:07]
GOLODRYGA: CNN's Katelyn Polantz filed this report from Washington, D.C., looking at why the judge declined to step in at this stage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: A new ruling where this judge in Washington, D.C. is saying, you know, there just isn't enough
legally for the courts to step in at this early stage of these cases against DOGE to stop whatever Elon Musk is doing.
One of the reasons there is because there's not enough evidence or even ability for the people who are suing to argue to the judge that they're
facing some sort of irreparable harm. And that was what Judge Tanya Chutkan of the federal court in D.C. told the Democratic attorney's general who had
gone to her on an emergency basis and said, please stop DOGE and Elon Musk from getting access to computer systems at a whole host of different
federal agencies across the government and also have them stop being involved in personnel decisions.
One of the issues that Judge Chutkan pointed out was that there are some discrepancies in what DOGE is even saying about how involved they are in
personnel decisions, where the lawyers in court are saying one thing and the executive order from Donald Trump is saying another. So there are a lot
of moving targets here, and Judge Chutkan is not the only judge to have to respond this way. There have been two other judges on the same bench in
Washington, D.C., who have looked at these initial challenges against DOGE and said, there's not enough here for me to step in, especially on data
privacy issues.
A judge allowed Elon Musk and DOGE to continue using a large server to send e-mail blasts out to the federal government. And then there are also ways
that DOGE is accessing data across different agencies where privacy lawsuits, where people are concerned about how they may get access to their
personal data. That just isn't enough at this point in the suits.
But the cases continue. There are more hearings. And there are many cases every day that are moving forward in different ways before different
judges. So we're watching it piece by piece by piece. And we're seeing new types of challenges come up every day to the types of policies that Donald
Trump is putting in place and also using his good friend, Elon Musk, to carry out with the Department of Government Efficiency. Back to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Thanks to Katelyn Polantz for that.
The Centers for Disease Control were hit hard in the Trump administration cuts on the federal government. At least 700 CDC workers have lost their
jobs since Friday. Now, the CDC tracks and manages outbreaks of diseases in the United States and around the world.
One of those diseases is measles, a highly preventative but highly contagious disease that affects mostly children. Well, now a measles
outbreak in West Texas has doubled in size since Friday, and new cases have popped up in neighboring New Mexico.
CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard has the latest.
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: A measles outbreak in West Texas continues to grow. What we know so far, there are now at least 58 people
who've gotten sick with measles as part of this outbreak. Thirteen of them have been hospitalized.
And in neighboring New Mexico, there's an additional eight cases that have been identified. And Texas health officials say the majority of cases in
this outbreak have been in unvaccinated people. Four cases have been in people who say that they have been vaccinated.
But what we know about the measles vaccine, it's safe, it's highly effective, it's 97 percent effective, but 97 is not 100 percent. So when we
do see outbreaks like this where the virus is spreading, there is the small chance of a vaccinated person getting infected because they have that
vaccine protection. In most cases, the illness is very mild.
Now, with the measles virus, it's so contagious, health officials say they expect to see more cases emerge in West Texas. The virus is so contagious.
If an infected person coughs or sneezes, the measles virus can linger in the air or on surfaces for up to two hours even after the infected person
has left the room.
And the signs and symptoms to watch for with measles, look for a cough, watery red eyes, a congested nose, also a high fever that sometimes spikes
more than 104 degrees Fahrenheit, and the classic measles rash, which typically develops about three to five days after the first symptoms
emerge. Back to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Time now for The Exchange. Joining me is Michael Osterholm. He is director for the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy.
Michael, welcome to the program. Let's start with this --
MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: -- measles outbreak that we know is now in six states, but let's stick with Texas in particular. Gaines County, where nearly one in five
incoming kindergartners in the school year 2023 to '24 did not get a vaccine. Most of these cases are within the ages of 5 to 17 in children and
most of these cases are among unvaccinated children.
[12:35:11]
To what do you account for such a low number of vaccinated children in Texas and this district in particular? And do you have concerns that we may
see that in other states where we're seeing this outbreak?
OSTERHOLM: Well, we actually have two issues that we're dealing with at the same time in terms of understanding what's happening with measles. The
first one is because we have done such a good job in the past of vaccinating so many of our kids, unlike many locations in the world where
hundreds of thousands of kids do get measles every year, we haven't had that situation. So many people feel like, well, it's not really a problem
for me. It won't happen to me. It won't happen if I go to a large school, but rather a small charter school.
And that is obviously a mistake because over time, as more and more people don't get vaccinated, we become more like those countries where measles is
a real challenge. We're going to see more outbreaks.
The second thing is that we have had so much mis and disinformation out there about measles vaccines. Unfortunately, it continues to be promoted
that these vaccines cause autism, which have been absolutely refuted without any question. And parents will say to themselves, well, I'm not
sure I want to get this. I want to be safer with my children. Maybe the measles vaccine will be a problem.
Well, the real problem is when they do get measles. And as we know in the outbreak in Gaines County, Texas, already at least 13 kids have been
hospitalized and it's not unusual in outbreaks of this size to actually see children die.
So our message has to be, number one, is, no, we do have a risk population here in this country. And with this virus as infectious as it is, it does
spread quickly.
And number two, the misinformation out there is wrong. It is really important. The measles vaccines are very safe, very effective. They provide
great protection. Be sure your children are vaccinated.
GOLODRYGA: And who needs to be the messenger here? I ask specifically because the new head of HHS, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., has been known in the
past to be a vaccine skeptic. Now, he says now that he just wants more research and more study into vaccines.
But we're talking about a disease and a vaccine that's been highly researched, highly studied, highly effective, proven to be effective, for
many, many years. This isn't some new disease or new virus that's just being researched as we speak.
OSTERHOLM: Well, you know, if you were to take Secretary Kennedy's approach to understanding what is safe and what's not and what is effective, it
comes down to the fact that he's the only one that seems to know that. And that nothing that has ever gone on before provides any information about
their safety.
I liken it kind of to me not understanding or accepting gravity until Newton comes back and is there with me as the apple falls off the tree and
hits the ground. You know, we don't need that. We have those data.
So this is a mistake that unfortunately, the general public sounds to them like, well, thank God this guy has taken our cause or he's trying to
protect us, which is absolutely not the truth. And so I think we do have a challenge.
I think this is a much bigger issue than just childhood immunizations. We're in a time with social media and this misinformation challenges that
we're now seeing for the very first time, not only is this a concern among parents and children, we have veterinarians reporting that there are
individuals who no longer will vaccinate their dogs and cats against rabies because they want to choose. And they say, my dog and cat will never be at
risk for that. And that's never happened before in veterinary medicine.
So this is an era of where social media is unfortunately driving what are considered facts. And we have not really put a good game together to
respond to that to say, but if you look at these data or how you look at these data, how do we communicate with you? We need to do a much better job
of that.
GOLODRYGA: What do you make of the headlines over the last few days? The CDC leadership telling staff that 10 percent of the agency's workforce will
be cut. That's about 1,300 employees. Some of those cuts have now been rescinded.
And just the last few hours, this comes after the Department of Agriculture said that over the weekend it accidentally fired several agency employees
who are working on the federal government's response to the avian flu.
And just another headline to throw out, the FDA's food safety chief resigned over the Trump administration's firings.
Putting that all together, is there reason to be alarmed?
OSTERHOLM: Well, it's not only a reason to be alarmed, but frankly, we all should be really almost in a state of panic. And I say that because, in
fact, the government workers that we are so often willing to disparage by, you know, that we don't need them, in fact, provide many incredibly
valuable services and often do things that save people's lives that we'd each take for granted.
[12:40:11]
In this case, you know, I'm not an expert on the economy. I can't tell you other than the fact that I know that we have a large deficit. We have to
basically ring in our budgets and maybe we need to have fewer people in the federal government. But how many and why and how do you do it?
Meaning that right now what's happening is the DOGE efforts are just like a machete. They're just cutting indiscriminately across agencies, across
people without taking into account what their expertise is, how important they are to the mission that this particular agency is delivering. And we
should be using surgical instruments at best.
And that is what I find hard. And just to give you an example, within the federal service, if I'm basically promoted from, say, a job A to job B and
then to job C, each of them an advancement based on my excellent performance, each one of those counts is a probation period.
So even though I may have been at the agency for years, I may be in a probation basis right now because I've advanced through the ranks. Those
are the people getting cut because they're on probation.
And in many instances, they're even getting letters saying that they're being fired for incompetent behavior, or not being what is needed. And
there's no truth to any of that.
So I think this kind of indiscriminate cut is not helping our government. It's not helping us have a better country.
You know, I'm not a business guy, but I can tell you, I don't think that the approach that they're using right now would score very well in a place
like the Harvard Business School.
And so we have to understand that what we're doing right now is destroying basically the next generation of upcoming scientists and public health
workers to protect us. And at the same time, we are making ourselves much less safe in this country.
GOLODRYGA: We are tight on time, so I hate to ask you this way, but let me just, for the sake of time, ask you. On a scale of one to 10, how concerned
are you about the spread of bird flu to humans? We know that there are 68 confirmed cases, according to the Centers for Disease Control now.
OSTERHOLM: In terms of influenza in general and a future pandemic, I'm a 10. In terms of whether H5N1, the bird flu is going to do it, I'm probably
a two or a three. I think we still have a lot of questions left. It's surely a problem, but I don't know that it's going to cause the next
influenza pandemic, which will happen, by the way.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, I heard a 10 there. And my alarm bells are going off already.
Michael Osterholm, always great to have you on and your expertise. Appreciate it.
OSTERHOLM: Thank you. Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Well, coming up for us, thermometers are plunging across the United States. We take a look at where you'll need to bundle up and where
you'll need to just stay indoors, if you can.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:45:34]
GOLODRYGA: More than 60 million people across the U.S. are under cold weather alerts as bone chilling cold sets in. Temperatures are plunging all
over the place, dropping as much as 50 degrees below what's normal for February.
Forecasters predicting record lows in at least 27 states. Some southern states already reeling from last weekend's deadly storms and flooding are
now bracing for snow, ice, and dangerous degrees of cold.
CNN's Derek Van Dam has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, Bianna. As suspected, we have seen this extreme cold air starting to shift eastward and now National Weather
Service out of Kentucky and Tennessee, some of the hardest hit flooded areas from this past weekend's winter storm, now issuing some extreme cold
alerts for that region as this arctic air mass descends on the area.
We don't have to look far to see just how cold and how cold that air mass actually is. So further to the north and northern plains, Bismarck, North
Dakota broke their daily record love temperature yesterday, negative 39 degrees Fahrenheit.
The only reason I bring this up is because you don't get to see this that often. When Bismarck, North Dakota breaks a daily record low temperature,
you know this air mass means business. And it is moving eastward as we had forecast.
In fact, 240 plus possible record low temperatures will be set through the end of the week. And many of that included across the Ohio and Tennessee
River valleys where we have the ongoing crest of the rivers. And the river flooding that is going to complicate the recovery efforts here.
The forecast wind chill values, that's what it feels like on your exposed skin as you step outside, just above the zero degree mark. That is frigid,
frigid cold. And just -- that is going to complicate the recovery efforts, especially for people who may not be able to heat their homes at this
particular moment because of the ongoing back to back winter storms.
Now, looking to the north, the northern plains, where we broke those record low temperatures. We're talking about frostbite in a matter of minutes.
That's how cold it is. So dangerously cold weather.
The second snowstorm that is moving across the Ohio River Valley and the mid-Atlantic now is actually on the move rather quickly. And it's caused
some serious problems.
This is Interstate 44 near Oklahoma and Missouri. There's a storm system pressing eastward. So snow will come to an end across the state of Kentucky
and into Tennessee. But we are keeping a close eye on what could unfold across Virginia, Virginia Beach into Norfolk, could have one of their
biggest snow storms in many winters.
But again, the efforts here -- for the recovery efforts here into Kentucky will be complicated by the fresh snow and the cold Arctic air that is
ongoing across the region.
Look at the snowfall depth across the state of Kentucky. The Arctic air will settle in, but then behind it temperatures warm up by the first parts
of next week. So all of that snow will quickly melt and move into the rivers complicating the flooding efforts there as well.
Bianna, back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: That was Derek Van Dam for us.
Still to come, up close and personal. How does it feel to be paddling in a tiny kayak as a great white shark rolls up for a look, or maybe a little
more? We'll find out after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:25]
GOLODRYGA: The fast-paced world of NASCAR is about to get an upgrade. New electric vehicles are set to be faster, quieter, and cleaner than the
current gas-burning cars. But will racing fans buy into the change?
CNN's Bill Weir got an up-close and personal look at one of the prototypes at the Daytona 500.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just outside the cradle of American racing, automobile history was made this weekend when
Formula drift Superstar, Ryan Tuerck, swapped out his rubber burning rig for a machine with twice the power, over 1,300 horses but with a fraction
of the noise and not a whiff of exhaust.
Behold, the first electric NASCAR.
WEIR: This is so surreal. Normally, this event would come with a thunderous sound of that internal combustion engine, but all you hear is this high-
pitched whine and then just the tires being shredded by those electric engines.
RYAN TUERCK, FORMULA DRIFT DRIVER: The power is just out of this world. It's like nothing I've ever experienced before.
WEIR: It's like twice as much horses as one of the regular NASCARs, right?
TUERCK: Yes. But beyond that, you have the power on demand at all times.
WEIR: Like a power drill, the zing.
TUERCK: There isn't -- there's isn't a power band, it's just -- there's just all the power at all times.
WEIR (voice-over): This is one of three electric prototypes unveiled this year as NASCAR pledges to be net zero by 2035.
But while this Chevy Blazer was supposed to be the first electric pace car in Daytona 500 history, it was literally cut off by Donald Trump's armor-
plated motorcade, a fitting metaphor from a president who was vowing to destroy EV incentives, charging networks and tailpipe pollution standards
as he promised to fossil fuel executives.
Has the politics made your job harder these days?
RILEY NELSON, HEAD OF SUSTAINABILITY, NASCAR: We have very clear corporate goals around sustainability, and so our job is to focus on getting those
done no matter who's in office or what's going on.
So our focus is on right now again, energy. And right now the race track you have behind you, that keeps you up at night. And how do we decarbonize
that within the next 10 years? And so that's everything from energy efficiency, LED lights, bringing in different ABB technologies, other
partner technologies so that we can reduce our own operating footprint as a sport --
WEIR: Yes.
NELSON: -- and then bring that to the fan and educate the fan on how can we bring some of these technologies into our communities and help support the
growth of sustainability across the country.
DAVID RAGAN, FORMER NASCAR DRIVER: I guarantee you, there's more EVs in the parking lot today than there was five years ago. And in another five years.
And then another five years, there's going to be a lot more.
WEIR (voice-over): David Ragan is a third generation NASCAR racer who now drives an electric Ford Mustang in retirement simply because it's fast,
fun, and cheaper to fuel and maintain.
He believes this fan base is destined to make that same discovery, so the market, not the president, will decide.
RAGAN: And I think the manufacturers really -- they've got their finger on the pulse. Chevrolet, Ford Motor Company, you know, Toyota, the big
partners here in NASCAR. They've all got their different plans for how they're going to attack that.
And again, I think NASCAR is just saying, hey, we want to be prepared when that evolution takes place.
JOHN STAHLBUSCH, EVP OF SALES, ABB: So Daytona, they just electrified their parking lot. So their -- whenever their employees pull up, they'll be able
to charge their vehicle.
Once charging becomes more ubiquitous and it sort of gets integrated into the fabric of the everyday American --
WEIR: Yes.
STAHLBUSCH: -- I think it'll become more and more accepted, and it will be utilized more and more by everybody.
WEIR: You're telling me, this is a conscious effort to win hearts and minds of folks who pay extra for the fumes and the noise of it.
CHRIS SHIGAS, VICE PRESIDENT, ABB: We're in the energy transition right now in this country. The energy transition isn't for some people, it's for
everyone.
[12:55:05]
So I think we need to have better conversations about how we use energy in the United States.
WEIR: Yes.
SHIGAS: And we welcome all the opinions and all the opinions out here today, because these are important decisions to make our country stronger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys are watching Ryan Tuerck right now with the electric drift car.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: In other news, a fisherman in New Zealand went from the hunter to the hunted in a heartbeat. 19-year-old kayaker, Matt Wells, noticed that
he wasn't the only one fishing for something to eat last week. A great white shark pulled up and spent several minutes following his kayak.
Wells said the shark appeared to be the size of three cars, side by side. Oh, my gosh. He cut his live bait loose, hoping that the shark would find
it more interesting than his own kayak.
The great white eventually swam away leaving Wells with one of the all-time great fishing tales to tell. And even better, he caught it all on camera,
even best, he made it out alive.
That does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga/. Thanks so much for watching. "AMANPOUR" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
