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One World with Zain Asher
Trump And Zelenskyy Hold Critical Meeting At White House; Volodymyr Zelenskyy's Visit Is Capping Off A Week Of Diplomacy To End Russia's War On Ukraine; Meeting Between Trump And Zelenskyy Gets Tense; Trump On Putin: He Wants To Make A Deal; Trump, Zelenskyy Meeting Devolves Into Shouting Match; Aired 12:00-1:00p ET
Aired February 28, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:34]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Zain is off today. This is a special two-hour ONE WORLD.
A pivotal meeting is underway at the White House right now, where U.S. President Donald Trump is sitting down with Ukrainian leader Volodymyr
Zelenskyy. His visit capping off a week of diplomacy to try and end Russia's war on Ukraine.
Now, any minute we expect to hear from the two leaders. They both are trying to finalize a deal that would give the U.S. access to Ukraine's
mineral wealth. With the future of its nation at stake, President Zelenskyy is seeking security guarantees.
Now the details of the agreement remain murky. There are also questions about the extent of Ukraine's resources and how easily they can be
extracted, particularly in Russian-occupied eastern regions. There's also uncertainty about those security guarantees sought by both Kyiv and Europe.
CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak joins us now. So, Kevin, it was about 30 minutes ago we saw President Zelenskyy and his motorcade drive
up to the White House. He was greeted by President Trump. And we know the two are in a meeting right now with reporters in the room that's been going
on for about 25 minutes.
And this is really an attempt by President Zelenskyy to reset what was a very frosty beginning to their relationship here as Donald Trump has
entered his second term.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, very much so. I don't think it's overstating to say that Zelenskyy is here in Washington to try
and advocate for the future of his entire country to a counterpart who at best views him skeptically and, at worst, has voiced open hostility towards
him. So the stakes really could not be higher.
At the center of their meeting is, of course, this mineral deal. Donald Trump says it essentially acts as back payment for previous American grants
to Ukraine. His aides say that it would act as a security guarantee on its own if the U.S. and Ukraine financially intertwined, essentially acting as
an insurance policy so that Russia doesn't go back in.
But that is, not at all, the type of security guarantee that Zelenskyy wants out of this meeting. He wants American military might. So do the
Europeans. If they're going to send their own peacekeepers into Ukraine, they want to ensure that there will be some American backstop to ensure
Russia doesn't use the ceasefire to regroup and go back in. So some very important topics for the two men to talk about.
We saw Zelenskyy arriving here to the West Wing portico. So all smiles at that point. He's obviously wearing his military drab outfit, his standard
uniform, sort of reflecting to the president visually that this is a country and he is a leader who is still very much at war.
But I do think it will be interesting to see kind of the body language. You know, you never want to dwell too much on it, but in this meeting, I think
it will be important.
You know, Zelenskyy, for all of the political acumen that he's shown, over the last three years, he's also someone who does sometimes rub foreign
leaders the wrong way. That was true in the Biden administration too. They weren't always pleased with how he was talking to them. They would have
liked him to be a little more grateful.
That takes on a new layer of significance with Donald Trump, who is so attuned to how he's being treated and how he's being spoken to. So, how
these two men interact in the Oval Office will, I think, be important. We are getting a little bit of an idea of what they're talking about.
At one point, Zelenskyy pulled out some photos to show President Trump of the destruction that Russia has wrought inside Ukraine.
And there was another interesting moment that one of the reporters were counting, saying that when Zelenskyy was asked, is the U.S. on his side,
Donald Trump interjected to say that was a stupid question. And Zelenskyy says that the U.S. has always been on the side of Ukraine. So some
interesting dynamics unfolding right now.
You know, ahead of this meeting, Trump had softened his tone somewhat on Zelenskyy. He was asked yesterday when he was meeting with Keir Starmer,
whether he still viewed him dictator and he said, oh, did I really say that? And I think that was important. He didn't necessarily retract his
statement, but he also didn't repeat it.
But what I think caught the ears of so many people in the room yesterday was how he described Vladimir Putin, taking essentially a credulous
attitude towards the Russian leader, saying that he trusted him to uphold any sort of peace agreement, in part because of their shared experience
enduring what he called the Russia hoax.
And I think it is that trusting attitude that really sends the shivers down the spines of so many Europeans, so many Ukrainian.
All of the leaders who are here at the White House this week, the French president, Emmanuel Macron, Starmer, even the Polish President, Duda, who
Trump met over the weekend, have tried to impart on him this idea that Putin can't be trusted.
[12:05:10]
When you look at all of the peace agreements that he's broken, Minsk 1, Minsk 2, he has gone back in. That doesn't seem to have penetrated at the
moment. So it will be interesting to see exactly what we hear from these two men, now that they're sitting down in the Oval Office.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And despite his history, the president continues to say that he believes Vladimir Putin wants a permanent end to this war and that
he trusts him on that point.
Though notable yesterday when he was describing Vladimir Putin and one of the questions he was asked, whether Vladimir Putin would have to make some
concessions. And I believe one of the first times we heard President Trump answer yes to that question.
Kevin Liptak, thank you.
LIPTAK: Sure.
GOLODRYGA: Well, CNN's chief international anchor, Christiane Amanpour, joins us now for more.
And, Christiane, what's interesting is that what we heard from President Zelenskyy earlier this week, before this trip, saying, we need to
understand where we stand with the United States of America. And just getting some of the early reporting out of the meeting here between these
two leaders, you heard what Kevin noted, President Zelenskyy saying that Trump is on our side, but President Trump also, per the reporting, said, I
am in the middle. I'm for both Ukraine and Russia. I'm wondering how you interpret that and the significance of this meeting.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, look, charitably, you could say that this is the impartial mediator trying to get
a peace accord, but it is incredibly important what he says, because actually, Zelenskyy said, I am here to see what the United States will do.
The United States has been our biggest and most important backer along with all the other European countries.
And remember, Europe has given at least as much, if not more than the United States over the last three years. But it's very, very important
because the bottom line is that the United States and the free world are on Ukraine's side. It is the country that has been -- that has been invaded.
Its country is got its sovereignty and its independence and its territorial integrity at risk and at stake.
So it's incredibly important that Trump somehow stops publicly delegitimizing Zelenskyy. Because over the last week, he has been saying,
as we've repeated many times, that he's a dictator, even if he tried to not repeat that yesterday, that he is illegitimate, that he hasn't had
elections.
All of these are Russian talking points. And all of these serve to delegitimize, not just Zelenskyy, but Ukraine. And this is Russia's primary
goal, to delegitimize Ukraine as an independent state.
Russia has not shown any inkling at all, even in the last few weeks that Trump has been talking about a peace plan, any inkling that any compromises
it might make, based on a just peace. It has doubled down on its maximalist demands.
Again, is that what it's just saying right now? Most people believe that Russia is not interested. And it was told to me by the British defense
secretary and others, not interested in a peace deal, but interested only in victory.
This is a very important thing to try to remember as these, whatever, peace deals, ceasefires, whatever negotiations are being attempted.
And moreover, Trump has told several people including Keir Starmer yesterday and now again in the White House, according to the notes, that we
are quite well advanced in our talks on peace with Putin.
Nothing of that is public. We don't know whether Ukraine knows what that means. Certainly the Europeans have not said they know what that means.
And, Bianna, just finally, Keir Starmer, after his meeting that went well with President Trump, is holding a summit here in London this weekend as
Zelenskyy flies back from Washington. So Zelenskyy is invited and other European leaders are invited, because it is going to be up to Europe,
apparently, under this administration, to make sure Ukraine does not lose its territory.
GOLODRYGA: And you hear President Trump reiterate that he trusts Vladimir Putin wants a ceasefire, wants this war to come to an end. But as we've
been reporting, as you note, the missile strikes against Ukraine continue over the last few weeks.
And there's reporting from "The Wall Street Journal" that even more North Korean troops have now been sent to Russia. That doesn't give any
indication that Vladimir Putin seems willing or dedicated to bringing this war to an end at this point.
In terms of this rare earth minerals deal, yes, it appears to be more favorable to Ukraine than initially presented. at the Munich conference by
the U.S. Treasury secretary, but we're also getting reports that Vladimir - - that Volodymyr Zelenskyy, in this meeting, is saying that this document is not enough.
[12:10:07]
What are -- what are the repercussions of President Zelenskyy leaving Washington without more assurances from President Trump?
AMANPOUR: Well, it really just depends. At first, he said that I'm not going to sell my country. After it was a take-it-or-leave-it demand by
Secretary Bessent to Volodymyr Zelenskyy and his people, in Kyiv, just around the Munich Security Conference.
As you know, Zelenskyy refused. He said, I will not sell my country. And now that's been, you know, more drafts. We don't know the full details. But
what we do know, because it's not in any draft, and it was, again, reiterated by President Trump, I am not giving any particular security
guarantees beyond our future business presence in Ukraine. He thinks that will be a deterrent. Nobody else believes that. Maybe Vladimir Putin would
like that to happen, but nobody else believes that, that in any of these kinds of end of wars that are so bitterly fought, you have to have a peace
deal or ceasefire or frozen lines that are then enforced by a peacekeeping force to prevent further incursions, which Putin has just showed that
that's what he's been doing for the last 10 years in Ukraine, regroup, reinvade since 2014. So that is one thing.
The other thing is that as has been said, and this is really important, Zelenskyy is going to ask, presumably one way or the other, Donald Trump,
which side he's on, not just what he might do. And Trump, according to notes, said, we will arm Ukraine.
The issue here is that they have to give enough and as much as possible to allow Ukraine to have the leverage at a bargaining table with Putin. That's
been a problem throughout the three years that they haven't -- they've given a lot the U.S. but not quite enough to make Putin sit up and take
notice.
And, finally, as many analysts said and have said on my program and to others, Putin is not winning this war right now. It is a false narrative
that the United States administration is peddling. It is -- he is not winning this war right now.
The most territory was taken, you know, when they first invaded and he's got less now by small percentage, small fractions of a percentage, but it's
less than on, you know, February 4th -- February 24th, 2022.
So the idea is to keep pressuring Putin as they keep trying to bring him to the table. And Trump yesterday did say trust, but verify. Today, again, he
said trust. So it's a little confused in public.
AMANPOUR: And as you note, in our last hour, it was President Trump's administration that stepped up in its military aid to Ukraine following
Russia's initial invasion in 2014, providing weapons that the Biden administration did not.
But henceforth, there has been a lot of pressure from the Republican Party and obviously from this president alone to curtail the delivery of a lot of
these weapons.
AMANPOUR: Can we just be clear?
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
AMANPOUR: You're right, and it's important. President Trump did deliver javelin missiles, anti-tank missiles, shoulder-held javelin missiles that
made a big difference in the initial weeks of the -- of the invasion. That was about 2017. It was the previous Obama administration that didn't
provide lethal weaponry. But obviously, Biden has provided a huge amount in the last three years.
I think that that tells its own story, that when you provide Ukraine with the weapons, then it uses them and it can fight its own fight. It is not
asking for American or European or NATO troops to come and fight its fight. But it is asking for its allies of the last three years to keep in its
corner, to keep on site.
And very importantly, there is still bipartisan support in the United States for Ukraine's defense and for its survival in Congress. I know that
there's a lot of problems with the MAGA wing.
And if you remember, one of the reasons why Ukraine is in a bind right now is because President Trump, this time last year, got his MAGA allies in
Congress to delay, to stop that amount of military aid that was earmarked for Ukraine.
For seven months, Ukraine did not get the weaponry that was earmarked for it and that had been, you know, said that it was going in. So I was in
Ukraine just after it started to arrive. And the military commander there, General Syrskyi, told me this delay costs lives and costs a little bit of
territory.
So the lesson is, when you provide the weapons, Ukraine can fight. When you don't, it's very touch and go. And the United States has to decide which
side it is on, Putin's side or the side of Ukraine.
GOLODRYGA: And remember what President Zelenskyy said when he spoke before Congress a few years ago, that this isn't charity, it's an investment in
supporting Ukraine with military assistance.
[12:15:11]
Christiane, I could talk to you for hours. We are so fortunate to have your expertise here. Just want to tell our viewers some more news of note that
came out of this meeting thus far. Apparently, President Trump said that he spoke with Vladimir Putin a couple of days ago.
I want to go to Matthew Chance who was in Moscow for us for a reaction on this. I'm not sure if the Kremlin has put out a statement about this most
recent phone call, but this seems to be news.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, I mean, look, they haven't put out, is the short answer, as far as I'm aware, a
statement about that most recent phone call.
But, you know, if it's -- if it's the case, if it's true, it gives us a little insight into the negotiations that are taking place behind the
scenes, privately, at various levels, including the highest level, it seems, between the Russian administration, you know, the Kremlin basically,
and the Trump administration.
And that's something that I think, you know, with the fast pace of the foreign policy about turn in Washington, that many of us have been -- have
been suspecting has been the case all along. You know, that a deal basically is already being brokered behind the scenes.
Ukraine is being essentially carved up over the heads and without the knowledge of the Ukrainian leadership. And now we're in a situation where
those negotiations are reaching a sort of further advanced stage.
I mean, look, the Kremlin must be looking at these scenes, not just the scenes in Washington today, but the scenes since the inauguration of
President Trump -- what was it, just over a month ago now, it seems like a lot longer -- with, you know, absolute glee because it has achieved so
much, so much that it didn't think was even possible.
Not only has the United States indicated that it will whittle down, wind down its support for Ukraine, which is an enormous boost for the Kremlin,
but also it has sort of sowed disunity in the Western Alliance, which is something that has been a long-standing objective of the Kremlin that
predates even the Ukraine War.
So an immense degree of satisfaction inside the Kremlin right now with the process, yet alone with what any peace deal might deliver. And, of course,
President Trump has, you know, reiterated that he does not see Ukraine as being part of NATO. That's something that was a big concern of the -- of
the -- of the Russians.
And he's kind of indicated that, you know, there'll be territorial concessions that Ukraine will have to make.
Now, it doesn't mean that a deal is definitely going to happen. In fact, you know, the Kremlin, Vladimir Putin, has, you know, drawn some red lines,
red lines that could potentially derail a negotiation.
They've said, for instance, that there'll be no tolerance of European peacekeepers on the ground in Ukraine, if there's a peace deal to be
policed. And that's potentially problematic because European peacekeepers or Europe, according to President Trump, will have to fall, you know, be at
-- be at the forefront of providing security for any -- for any peace agreement that is agreed and implemented.
The Kremlin's also talked about being, you know, unable and unwilling to make any territorial concessions or anything it would consider to be
territorial concessions.
And so, you know, for instance, it's annexed several areas of Ukraine and absorbed those territories into the Russian sort of federation through its
-- through its constitution, even though it doesn't even control many parts of those areas.
And, you know, Putin and his officials have said time and again that they won't compromise on that. You know, they will have all the territory in any
peace agreement that they have annexed and absorbed into the Russian Federation.
Now, that might be a negotiating position that they can climb down from, who knows. But it could also equally be a hard line that prevents a Trump
deal getting across the line.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And some of those areas are where these rare earth minerals are located for Ukraine as well. And it's clear the -- that Kremlin is
watching all of this play out closely, as Vladimir Putin, just this week, also announced a deal of his own to offer rare earth minerals opportunity
for investment for the United States in Russia.
Matthew Chance, thank you so much.
Still to come for us, Mexico has extradited a notorious drug lord and 28 other wanted cartel members to the U.S. A look at what's next for these men
as they face the U.S. justice system.
And the growing mystery surrounding the death of Hollywood legend, Gene Hackman. What police are now saying about what they found at his house,
that's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:20:41]
GOLODRYGA: Right now, a meeting between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy is under way. The U.S. is expected to sign a deal to acquire
Ukrainian natural resources.
We expect to hear from the two presidents momentarily. We're joined by CNN's global affairs analyst, Kimberly Dozier.
Kimberly, this spray in the Oval Office is going on for quite a bit of time. We're also expecting later this afternoon for a press conference as
well, so a lot to digest.
But just from what we're hearing in the first 45 minutes or so from these two men meeting, President Zelenskyy answering a question about whose side
the president is on, saying Donald Trump is on our side, President Trump saying, I'm in the middle, I'm for both Ukraine and Russia.
And then President Trump saying, again, that he has just recently spoken to Vladimir Putin and added to that by saying he's talking to Putin numerous
times. Yes, they are expected to sign this deal. President Trump seemed to walk back some of his toughest criticism of President Zelenskyy from last
week.
But what do you make of what you're hearing from reporters right now as these two men are meeting in the Oval Office?
KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, a charitable explanation could be that President Trump is playing the good cop in these negotiations
and leaning on the side of favoring Russia to offset the Biden administration's antipathy toward Russia after its invasion of Ukraine in
2022.
But that is very uncomfortable for European leaders to experience. It was tough for the French president, the British prime minister. And now
Zelenskyy to sit there next to him, considering that they've just lost almost 50 civilians in the past week or so from constant Russian air
attacks.
But you also have to watch what Trump does. The Trump administration just extended for another year sanctions against Russia over its invasion of
Crimea back in 2014. So that is a signal that while Trump is playing the nice guy to Putin publicly, that the administration itself is preparing for
tough negotiations where presumably they will fight on Ukraine's behalf to get back some of the territory that Russia now occupies, if only to trade
some of it for the Kursk territory in Russia that Ukraine now occupies.
[12:25:23]
GOLODRYGA: For this rare earth minerals deal to really offer Ukraine some assurances and U.S. support, we know that there are at least 20 of the 50
minerals in Ukraine right now that the U.S. considers critical. This is a deal that is more favorable now for Ukraine in terms of what the United
States gets out of it and what Ukraine does just from an economic standpoint.
But without a U.S. military commitment, without this backstop that Keir Starmer, that Emmanuel Macron, that all of these world leaders that have
come to visit President Trump have pressed him on to backstop really what they've already put forward and that is more spending and peacekeeping
troops that would even, in theory, be located in Ukraine.
Does that offer defense against Vladimir Putin for Ukraine without that U.S. commitment?
DOZIER: Well, Zelenskyy might not get the U.S. commitment in writing in the mineral deal today. But I think that Trump's staff, including the very
anti-Russia, traditionally Republican-minded national security advisor, Mike Waltz, and the Secretary of State Marco Rubio, they have figured out a
way to get Trump to sign on this deal, and that's by making it about business and making it about U.S. business profits.
So their logic is once Trump and Zelenskyy have signed this, the U.S. has made the only kind of commitment that Trump really takes seriously. And
that's when U.S. businesses will step in and say, OK, we would like to invest.
This is, of course, presuming that the U.S. Geological Survey and others will go in and test out and find some of those mineral reserves that
haven't been double-checked since the Soviet Union did a survey decades ago.
But for the U.S. business community to invest in Ukraine, they need a stable, protected environment. They're not going to invest billions of
dollars in a multi-decade deal, because that's how long it takes to mine some of this stuff, if they think Russia might invade.
And I think that's when France, Britain, two of the countries that have said they'd actually put peacekeeping troops on the ground, will be able to
pressure the U.S. Trump going forward, saying, hey, we need you to continue giving us, if not troops on the ground, access to your satellites, to the
geospatial intelligence, to Russian troop movements, the kind of logistical and intelligence support that the U.S. is giving Ukraine right now,
including today.
The U.S., despite Trump's rhetoric, is still giving Ukraine daily reports on Russian troop movements on the battlefield. And they'll need that going
forward.
GOLODRYGA: Well, you know, this is a president, a U.S. president that invests heavily on personal relationships, bilateral deals, not only
between countries but between two leaders. We know he's taken to quite a liking, at least personally, for Vladimir Putin.
There's been rarely a time where we've seen him criticize him. Yesterday, he said he will have to make some concessions, but other than that, very
little. And that's not necessarily the case when it comes to President Zelenskyy speaking even just now.
We're getting some reports from this ongoing meeting in the White House, President Trump telling Zelenskyy that his comments from last week were
very disrespectful, and offering and laying down an ultimatum, really, telling him you have to be thankful and if you don't take this deal, we are
out.
How do you -- how do you interpret this, Kimberly?
DOZIER: Zelenskyy would have been braced for this coming into this, as he's called his relationship with Trump not in the, quote-unquote, best way in
the past. So he knew he was going to have to swallow some humble pie and eat some crow going into this meeting.
The point is, if he can get this deal, he can build on it. If he blows this deal, then it's more likely that Trump does listen to some of what Putin
has fed him.
Remember, Putin has essentially held out to Trump the possibility of the U.S. and Russia denuclearizing, you know, a sort of Reagan Soviet Union
moment. And Trump has his eye on getting the Nobel Peace Prize.
[12:30:00]
So for ending the war in Ukraine, and it would be even better if he could get Russia to denuclearize. So that's the kind of legacy Putin is offering
that Zelenskyy is going up against. Ukrainian officials I have spoken to have said, we know we kind of need to keep our mouths shut because
eventually, Putin's arrogance and their pressure at the negotiating table to seize much of our country, is going to trip him up, make Trump angry,
and hopefully make Trump side more with Ukraine going forward. But that's rose-colored glasses and putting a lot of hopes on talks that haven't
happened yet.
GOLODRYGA: And we know President Zelenskyy is not necessarily a diplomat in the sense of withholding his personal views as well. Sort of speaking
freely is about how he feels in certain situations, as he did last week, saying that President Trump lives in a bubble of sorts.
Kimberly Dozier, we'll keep you posted on the headlines coming out of this meeting right now. Thank you.
And our coverage of the pivotal meeting between Trump and Zelenskyy continues after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
U.S. President Donald Trump has been sitting down with Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the White House for about an hour now. We understand
from reporters in the room the bilateral meeting got intense at times.
[12:35:02]
Trump and Vice President Vance called President Zelenskyy disrespectful as President Zelenskyy asks for a security commitment.
They're all supposed to have lunch and then give a press conference. It appears that this is a press conference, or at least this pool spray has
turned into quite a bit of a press conference.
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh joins us from the view in Kyiv. And these can't be very optimistic headlines coming out for Kyiv right now and Ukrainians, in
general. The status of this meeting seems to be rather tense given some of these headlines that have come out and reports of even, you know, some
ultimatums being given by the U.S. president.
Nick Paton Walsh, tell us what you're hearing.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, look, it clearly has not been the sort of convivial meeting that
President Trump and French President Emmanuel Macron enjoyed back in Monday, which sort of paved the way for Zelenskyy's visits.
We hear that Zelenskyy called Putin a terrorist in the early moments of that meeting. That would have left Donald Trump probably quite
uncomfortable. He is obviously reticent in the past to say negative things about the Kremlin head. And then you made a reference to there about how
Zelenskyy was called disrespectful.
There are also suggestions again that Trump repeated his comments that Zelenskyy didn't have any cards to play.
In a previous interview, he made similar comments and said that, quote, he was sick of it in that interview. So we're still getting the details of
exactly what this exchange has been, but it is clear that it is not one that was relaxed or cheerful.
But that also reflects possibly two things here. This is a make or break meeting for Ukraine. I think President Zelenskyy is representing the
existential, frankly, fears of many Ukrainian people if he comes to the meeting feeling concerned, feeling like he doesn't want to quip around, and
potentially, you know, defending his position.
And there are some observers of Donald Trump who say that actually he tends to respond to people who show no fear in him in a way which benefits those
individuals. And that's been an observation made by some now former world leaders.
So we don't know how this necessarily going to play out, but certainly, the immediate headlines from this first meeting --
GOLODRYGA: Nick, we're
WALSH: -- probably the most significant moment --
GOLODRYGA: -- going to cut you off right now. I'm sorry. We're going to go to the White House for that exchange between these two leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, if I didn't align myself with both of them, you'd never have a deal. You want me to say
really terrible things about Putin and then say, hi, Vladimir how are we doing on the deal? That doesn't work that way. I'm not aligned with Putin.
I'm not aligned with anybody. I'm aligned with the United States of America. And for the good of the world. I'm aligned with the world. And I
want to get this thing over with.
You see the hatred he's got for Putin. That's very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hate. He's got tremendous hatred. And I understand
that.
But I can tell you, the other side isn't exactly in love with, you know, him either. So it's not a question of alignment. I have to -- I'm aligned
with the world. I want to get the things that -- I'm aligned with Europe. I want to see if we can get this thing done.
You want me to be tough? I could be tougher than any human being you've ever seen. I'd be so tough, but you're never going to get a deal that way.
So that's the way it goes.
All right. One more question. Go, Matt.
JD VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hey, I will respond to this. So look, for four years in the United States of America, we had a president
who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the
country.
The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden of thumping our chest and
pretending that the President of the United States' words mattered more than the President of the United States' actions.
What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That's what President Trump is doing.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Can I ask you?
VANCE: Sure. Yes.
ZELENSKYY: Yes?
VANCE: Yes.
ZELENSKYY: OK. So he occupied our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of East and Crimea. So he occupied it on 2014. So during a lot of years, I'm
not speaking about just Biden, but those time was Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump, and
God bless, now President Trump will stop him.
But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the contact --
TRUMP: 2015.
ZELENSKYY: 2014.
VANCE: 2014 and 2015.
TRUMP: Oh, 2014?
ZELENSKYY: Yes, yes. So he killed --
TRUMP: I was -- I was not here.
ZELENSKYY: Yes, but --
VANCE: That's exactly right.
ZELENSKYY: Yes. But during 2014 till 2022, you know, the same -- well, the situation the same that people have been dying on the contact line. Nobody
stopped here.
[12:40:08]
You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversation, my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him, me, like a new president.
In 2019, I signed with him, the deal. I signed with him, Macron and Merkel. We signed ceasefire. Ceasefire.
All of them told me that he will never go. We signed him -- gas contract. Gas contract.
VANCE: Yes.
ZELENSKYY: Yes. But after that, he broke the ceasefire. He killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of
prisoners, but he didn't do it.
What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about? What do you mean?
VANCE: I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.
ZELENSKYY: Yes. But if you are not --
VANCE: Mr. President -- Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office try to litigate this in
front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems.
You should be thanking the president for trying to bring it into this conflict.
ZELENSKYY: Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?
VANCE: I have been to --
ZELENSKYY: Then come one (PH).
VANCE: I have actually -- I've actually watched and seen the stories. And I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour,
Mr. President. Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military?
ZELENSKYY: We have problems.
VANCE: And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying
to prevent the destruction of your country?
ZELENSKYY: A lot of -- a lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning.
VANCE: Sure.
ZELENSKYY: First of all, during the war, everybody has problems. Even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now. But you will feel it in the
future. God bless.
TRUMP: You don't know that.
ZELENSKYY: God bless.
TRUMP: You don't know that.
ZELENSKYY: God bless you will not have a war.
TRUMP: Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel.
ZELENSKYY: I'm not telling you. I'm answering all his questions.
TRUMP: Because you're in no position to dictate that.
VANCE: That's exactly what you did.
TRUMP: Remember that. You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good.
ZELENSKYY: You will feel influenced.
TRUMP: We're going to feel very good and very strong.
ZELENSKYY: I'm telling, you will feel influenced.
TRUMP: You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself --
ZELENSKYY: From the very beginning of the war.
TRUMP: -- to be in a very bad position and it happens to be right about it.
ZELENSKYY: From the very beginning of the war.
TRUMP: You're not in a good position.
ZELENSKYY: I was -- I was --
TRUMP: You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards.
ZELENSKYY: We're not playing cards. I want to see --
TRUMP: Right now, you don't -- you're playing cards. You're playing cards. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people.
ZELENSKYY: You think --
TRUMP: You're gambling with World War III.
ZELENSKYY: What are you talking about? What are you talking about?
TRUMP: You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country.
ZELENSKYY: I'm with all respect.
TRUMP: That's back to you, far more than a lot of people said they should have.
VANCE: Have you said thank you once this entire meeting?
ZELENSKYY: A lot of times. Even today.
VANCE: No. In this entire meeting, have you said thank you?
ZELENSKYY: Even today.
VANCE: You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October, offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America
and the president who's trying to save your country.
ZELENSKYY: Please. You think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can --
TRUMP: He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble.
ZELENSKYY: Can I answer?
TRUMP: Wait a minute. No, no.
ZELENSKYY: Can I answer?
TRUMP: You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble.
ZELENSKYY: I know. I know.
TRUMP: You're not winning. You're not winning this.
ZELENSKYY: I --
TRUMP: You have a damn good chance of coming out OK because of us.
ZELENSKYY: Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong from the very beginning of the war. We've been alone. And we are thankful.
I said thanks in this cabinet.
TRUMP: You haven't been alone. You haven't been alone.
ZELENSKYY: And not only in this cabinet.
TRUMP: We gave you through the stupid president $350 billion --
ZELENSKYY: You voted for your president.
TRUMP: We gave you military equipment.
ZELENSKYY: You voted for your president.
TRUMP: And your men are brave, but they had to use our military.
ZELENSKYY: What about -- you invited me.
TRUMP: If you didn't have our military equipment --
ZELENSKYY: You invited me.
TRUMP: If you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks.
ZELENSKYY: In three days, I heard it from Putin. In three days. This is something new.
TRUMP: Maybe less.
ZELENSKYY: In two weeks, of course, yes.
TRUMP: It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this. I tell you.
VANCE: You say thank you.
ZELENSKYY: I said a lot of times thank you to the American people.
VANCE: Except that there -- exact that there are disagreements and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the
American media when you're wrong. We know that you're wrong.
TRUMP: But you see I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on over here.
VANCE: I agree, sir.
TRUMP: I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful. You don't have the cards.
ZELENSKYY: I'm thankful.
TRUMP: You're buried there. People are dying.
ZELENSKYY: I can tell you -- I know --
TRUMP: You're running low on soldiers. Listen. You're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing.
ZELENSKYY: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Then you -- then you tell us -- I don't want a ceasefire. I don't want a ceasefire. I want to go. And I want to this. Look, if you could get
a ceasefire right now, I'd tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed.
ZELENSKYY: Of course -- of course we want to stop the war.
TRUMP: But you're saying you don't want a ceasefire.
ZELENSKYY: But I said to you --
TRUMP: I want to ceasefire.
ZELENSKYY: -- with guarantess.
TRUMP: Because you'll get a ceasefire faster than an agreement.
[12:45:02]
ZELENSKYY: Ask our people about ceasefire. What they think.
TRUMP: That wasn't with me --
ZELENSKYY: It doesn't matter for you what you want.
TRUMP: That wasn't with me. That was with a guy named Biden who was not a smart person. That was with -- that was with Obama.
ZELENSKYY: It was your president.
TRUMP: Excuse me. That was with Obama, who gave you sheets, and I gave you javelins.
ZELENSKYY: Yes.
TRUMP: I gave you the javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact, the statement is, Obama gave sheets and Trump gave
javelins.
You've got to be more thankful. Because let me tell you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards. But without us, you don't have any
cards.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One more question to Mr. Vice President. Sorry.
TRUMP: It's going to be a tough deal to make, because the attitudes have to change.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What if Russia breaks ceasefire? What if Russia breaks the ceasefire? What do you then? I understand that it's a heated
conversation right now.
TRUMP: What are you saying?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is Russia --
VANCE: She's asking what if Russia breaks the ceasefire?
TRUMP: What if anything? What if the bomb drops on your head right now? OK? What if they broke it? I don't know. They broke it with Biden because
Biden, they didn't respect him. They didn't respect Obama. They respect me.
Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch-hunt where they used him and Russia, Russia, Russia,
Russia. You ever hear of that deal? That was a phony -- that was a phony Hunter Biden-Joe Biden scam. Hillary Clinton, Shifty Adam Schiff. It was a
Democrat scam. And he had to go through that. And he did go through it. We didn't end up in a war. And he went through it. He was accused of all that
stuff. He had nothing to do with it. It came out of Hunter Biden's bathroom. It came out of Hunter Biden's bedroom. It was disgusting.
And then they said, oh, the laptop from hell was made by Russia, the 51 agents. The whole thing was a scam. And he had to put up with that. He was
being accused of all that stuff.
All I can say is this. He might have broken deals with Obama and Bush, and he might have broken them with Biden. He did, maybe. Maybe he didn't. I
don't know what happened. But he didn't break them with me. He wants to make a deal. I don't know if you can make a deal.
The problem is I've empowered you to be a tough guy. And I don't think you'd be a tough guy without the United States. And your people are very
brave.
ZELENSKYY: Thank you.
TRUMP: But you're either going to make a deal or we're out. And if we're out, you'll fight it out. I don't think it's going to be pretty, but you'll
fight it out. But you don't have the cards. But once we sign that deal, you're in a much better position. But you're not acting at all thankful.
And that's not a nice thing. I'll be honest, that's not a nice thing.
All right. I think we've seen enough. What do you think, huh? This is -- this is going to be great television, I will say that.
All right. We'll see what we can do about putting it together.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Correspondent Kaitlan Collins, who was in the Oval Office, as we heard before we saw the tape. And CNN chief international
anchor, Christiane Amanpour.
Kaitlan, I want to start with, look at her face. I mean, Christiane, hold that thought for once. OK. Actually, Christiane, please. Take it away.
AMANPOUR: Never in the history of modern diplomacy, war, peace, whatever, have I ever, ever, ever seen anything like it. We just have to hope that
for the safety of the free world and for the American people, for the European people, for the Ukrainian people, that these two presidents, it's
out of -- and try to iron out their differences.
This was an entirely personal go-to with so many mistruths and misfires. JD Vance, who once said about Ukraine, I don't really care about whatever
happens to Ukraine. Then to Zelenskyy, who spent (TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES)
BASH: Christiane.
AMANPOUR: It's impossible to understand what's going to happen next. The only person here from this is President Putin.
BASH: Yes.
AMANPOUR: And beyond that, President --
BASH: Yes. Christiane, your audio is breaking up a little bit, but we definitely got the gist of what you were saying.
[12:50:01]
And, Kaitlan, I do want to -- because there were a lot of things that were just not true, aside from just the tone of tenor and the monumental
historic, not in a good way, historic event that we just saw in the -- in the Oval Office.
Kaitlan, what really did seem to devolve when the vice president said to Zelenskyy, we just want diplomacy. And what Zelenskyy was trying to do was
say, we had that. We had a deal with Russia. We had an agreement, the Minsk agreement. And Russia didn't abide by it. So I want some guarantees that
won't happen again. And then it devolved in a way that is really, really remarkable.
The screaming, I mean, you have been with Donald Trump a lot. We have seen and heard about Trump getting upset and losing his temper. I think this is
probably the first time we have seen it like this on camera.
We all should say, Kaitlan, that let's just be clear. I'm not saying that there wasn't genuine anger here, but he understands when the television
cameras are there, as does JD Vance. And we can't lose sight of the performance aspect of this.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It was incredibly genuine, though. I mean, JD Vance said that this shouldn't be litigated in
front of the press. Trump said, actually, no, it should be. I'm glad that this is happening.
And, you know, the way that this built, just to give context of the 40 minutes that happened before what you just watched, the most remarkable
part of this interaction was there were moments where President Zelenskyy would do what we saw the other European leaders do this week where they
step in to correct either on aid to Ukraine or to talk about Putin and the fact that he can't be trusted.
At one point, Zelenskyy called him a killer and saying that there should be no compromises with him. And the U.S. officials were sitting there just
kind of listening to this. And it was at that point though where Vice President Vance stepped in.
Trump was silent at the beginning of that and then got involved and then they were just essentially yelling at one another in this.
And with Trump, all of his diplomacy, we know, is personal. That's why the world leaders who have come here this week have tried to flatter him to
essentially get what they want when it comes to negotiating the end of this. And that was not what we just saw the tact that Zelenskyy took here.
BASH: Yes.
COLLINS: He was, as Zelenskyy typically is, straightforward in his opinions and what is the reality on the ground.
It was kind of chastising president -- Vice President Vance for not having come to Ukraine. And at one point earlier when Trump was asked if he would
go to Ukraine, Zelenskyy was saying that was what he was going to ask Trump as well. He's been very -- he's emphasized a lot that he thinks these U.S.
officials need to be there.
But to give you a sense of how this negotiation is going, right now, they are meeting behind closed doors. They're supposed to come out for a press
conference any minute now, and that's where they're signing that minerals agreement that they've been touting as a big first step here.
There are real questions about what this looks like going forward, because you heard what President Trump said to me there at the end. I asked, can
the two of you still go in a room and negotiate after what just happened? And he said, we'll see, essentially.
And, Dana, there was one moment where I looked around the room at the officials who were there. It's the top Ukrainian advisors, the Secretary of
State to President Trump, the Treasury Secretary, Vice President Vance, obviously.
The Ukrainian ambassador to the United States --
BASH: Yes.
COLLINS: -- had her head buried in her hands --
BASH: Yes.
COLLINS: -- as this shouting match was going on between the three of them.
BASH: Yes. I saw you put that on social media. It is one of the many. There you go. We're putting it up on the screen now. That is the Ukrainian
ambassador, as you said. And she, I mean, talk about her worst nightmare. She was literally watching it unfold before her eyes in the Oval Office of
the White House.
David Chalian, I want to go to you because so much of the kind of pre-game, if you will, the discussion before this event today was people who were
trying to get these two officials to a yes and to a place where they could have a good working relationship and a good conversation were trying to
explain to Zelenskyy in particular, David, this is the way to approach it. This is the way to kind of play it right for Donald Trump.
I got a text from a senator who was in the earlier meeting on Capitol Hill with the Ukrainian president. And this senator said he did everything
wrong. And not -- I'm not to -- not to say, David, that what he said wasn't accurate. Just in terms of the strategy, if you're trying to appeal to and
appease Donald Trump.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: Right. I mean, Zelenskyy was coming here, obviously, to give Trump a win, if you will, an agreement
here, something that Trump had been talking about forever.
And by the way, did you not see yesterday, Dana? When we talked about this that Donald Trump sort of was changing his --
BASH: Exactly.
CHALIAN: -- tone a little bit. I mean, it was only a week ago, 10 days ago, he was calling Zelenskyy a dictator and saying that Ukraine was at fault
for the start of the war. Obviously, that doesn't comport with the facts.
[12:55:03]
And then you heard a totally different tone from him yesterday. Looking forward to this meeting at 11:00. It will be a good meeting, because he was
anticipating the win. And, of course, what does Zelenskyy get of that?
I mean, he's hoping to get security guarantees. That obviously seems very much not a certain thing from the United States, but he was really hoping
to keep the trains on track here for.
As Starmer, the U.K. prime minister, was saying yesterday, any kind of deal with Russia that brings us to a resolution, one that actually sticks.
BASH: Yes.
CHALIAN: And that's what Zelenskyy was looking for here. And what you just saw here was so much pent up personal frustration and narrative through the
last five or six years of this relationship now back and forth.
You just saw it spill out publicly. And I think that the American people see here, obviously. There will be a lot of people in Donald Trump's
quarter who will love this moment of it --
BASH: That's right.
CHALIAN: -- and getting combative. And, obviously, JD Vance, I think you saw sort of coaching a moment, the president to get to this place, right?
Like, he was leading --
BASH: Absolutely.
CHALIAN: -- this conversation there.
But there will be a whole swath of Americans, some of whom who have voted for Donald Trump, who will find this very uncomfortable. And that may
include, not publicly, but privately, as you know, some Republican allies and the president on Capitol Hill.
BASH: Yes. Nick Paton Walsh, you are in Ukraine. Your reaction and what you're hearing there.
WALSH: I mean, there's palpable fear, I think, amongst many Ukrainians watching that, the outcome they were hoping for in this meeting, that they
could get back to six weeks ago where the U.S. was their partner, that seems to have dissolved.
I can't say evaporated, because we don't know the consequence of this. But the acrimony there on display. I think it really began when we saw JD Vance
intervene in parts of that conversation.
But I mean, the way that Donald Trump mimicked President Zelenskyy saying, I don't want a ceasefire, you could tell there's a lot of frustration built
up amongst the American side there.
JD Vance stepping in and saying, you're forcing conscripts to the frontline. Well, at times, there are recruitment here that is not entirely
voluntary.
But it's an extraordinary collapse there of what people had hoped would be their relationship getting back on track.
Zelenskyy feeling the obligation to correct falses, perhaps mistaking the friendly way in which Emmanuel Macron and Keir Starmer seem to do that
something he could replicate, perhaps misreading part of the room there.
But you've got to understand too where this is for Ukrainians. This is a matter of life and death where they've lost friends. And so Zelenskyy's
emotions there, I think, portraying the frustration of a nation here, frankly, who don't like the way in which their conflict is misrepresented
and answering back.
But ultimately, the way they shout each other down, and it was -- it was said to Zelenskyy that he was not being thankful enough, that is
exceptionally damaging for this relationship and I think leaves many people here very concerned about where this war goes next.
BASH: Yes. Thank you so much, Nick.
And, Susan Glasser, David Chalian said the hope was to keep the train on tracks. I mean this was a head on collision.
SUSAN GLASSER, STAFF WRITER, THE NEW YORKER: That's exactly right. It had the feelings at times, Dana, of an ambush where you had the Vice President
of the United States and the President of the United States both going after President Zelenskyy at points in that confrontation. In many ways, it
seemed as though, you know, Vladimir Putin's work was being done for him.
And I just think the big picture here is to understand the shock and horror of Ukraine to see the country that was its biggest ally and supporter in
the space of weeks, essentially, change the foreign policy of the United States and of the West.
And you had Trump and Vance amplifying Russian lies about the invasion. You had Donald Trump in that confrontation saying that, you know, he trusts
Vladimir Putin. You had him saying lies about the Russian intervention in our elections back in 2016. This is the level of grievance going forward.
But what's happened in the last week, it's hard for us to process, I think. The United States -- Donald Trump has switched sides in the war. And I
think that is the backdrop for this confrontation that we just saw.
BASH: And, Alex, they are popping the champagne in Moscow. They've got their best vodka out, and they're doing shots as we speak. There's no
question.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I mean, that's exactly the same thought that went through my head. And they are grinning
from ear to ear. They look like the calmer, more mature partner right now.
I mean, Zelenskyy walked into a buzz saw. He knew that he was going to face a hostile president and vice president, clearly. And he clearly couldn't
hold back when some of these statements were made and these untruths were put in front of him. It is just an extraordinary moment.
We were going to be talking here about this deal that was a win-win for both sides, questions about the security guarantees --
END
