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One World with Zain Asher
China Raises Retaliatory tariffs On U.S. Imports To 125 Percent; Spain's Olive Oil Producers Brace For Tariffs; U.S. Consumer Sentiment Plummets To Second-Lowest Level On Record; CNN Speaks To The Far-Right Extremist With A "Retribution" List; Trump-Supporting Tech Giants Losing Money Under His Policies; RFK Jr. Announces "Massive" Research Into "Autism Epidemic"; Right Wing Embraces Theory That The World Needs More Babies; Kevin O'Leary: Raise U.S. Tariffs On China To 400 Percent; ; Aired 12:00- 1:00p ET
Aired April 11, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:02]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: The art of making a deal. The White House says countries are lining up to talk about trade. ONE WORLD starts right
now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We think we're in very good shape. We think we're doing very well. Again, there'll be a transition cost
and transition problems, but in the end, it's going to be a beautiful thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Donald Trump sounds optimistic, even as the trade war with China escalates and market turmoil continues. So who will blink first?
Plus, consumer sentiment tumbles. The latest numbers are the second lowest since 1952.
Also ahead. What would you do if you were a multimillionaire? Well, we know a guy, Kevin O'Leary. We'll ask him. He's going to be joining ONE WORLD to
talk about what to do in this turmoil.
Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Zain is off today. You're watching the second hour of ONE WORLD.
A crisis of confidence fueled by economic uncertainty. The Trump administration claims world leaders are lining up to make deals, even as
the U.S. president's global trade war threatens to inflict further damage.
The E.U. says it will try to sign agreements with the White House on Sunday. And Italy's Prime Minister says that she will visit Washington next
week. But China is striking a very different tone.
Today, Beijing announced its increasing tariffs on American imports to 125 percent after Donald Trump clarified on Thursday that U.S. levies on
Chinese goods have been cranked up to a massive 145 percent.
And we're learning the administration warned China against such a move and said President Xi should request a call with Trump. According to one top
official, that has not happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your response to what President Xi Jinping said this morning?
JAMIESON GREER, U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: I'm not going to give any further comment this morning. Thank you though.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is the U.S. engaged in negotiations with China?
GREER: Not at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Well, here's a look at how Wall Street is trading right now. Stocks are rather muted, all pointing up, though, the Dow, S&P 500, and
NASDAQ, all trading up about half a percentage point.
But we should note the U.S. dollar is down sharply. And there are some alarming moves in the bond market where yields rose again this Friday.
And another sign of uncertainty gripping the U.S. economy, one of the world's leading investment banks is now weighing in. JPMorgan CEO, Jamie
Dimon, saying the economy is facing considerable turbulence, including geopolitics. As always, we hope for the best, but prepare the firm for a
wide range of scenarios.
CNN's Nic Robertson joins me now live in London. Not a beat you're usually covering, Nic, but we're seeing a spike in gold, a drop in the U.S. dollar,
an increase in the U.S. treasury yields. And this is unusual, given that typically in times of uncertainty and economic crises, investors flock to a
safe haven, which has always been the United States. That's not happening and that spooking investors in the longer term and short term.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. When you have it, and you mentioned it several times in the lead in there, and Jamie Dimon is
referencing it as well, a lack of confidence, a lack of confidence for businesses is the polar opposite of what they want to need. They need
certainty. They want to grow their businesses. They want to employ people. They want to put money in people's pockets and their own pockets and
investors' pockets.
And at this time of uncertainty, they can't do that. And this means potentially that, as we've heard from several very serious economists, that
the world is staring down the barrel of a potential recession. And recession potentially means countries with poor economic margins are going
to be hard hit that can lead to, we're extrapolating here, of course. Can't put your finger on the map and say where and when these things might
happen, but it brings social tension, potential social unrest, potential tensions between neighboring countries, potential fluctuations in migration
patterns, all the things that lead to sort of destabilizing the geopolitical world order.
[12:05:22]
And this has sort of been this economic stress has been piled on a sort of lowering of security confidence in the position of the United States in
partnership with its allies.
And I think this is what President Xi and China reaches into when he talks about the European Union should, you know, partner with China to stand up
the world's rules-based order, which of course China doesn't stick to those rules particularly well.
So when he says that and the United States is hosting a number of countries coming this weekend, looking for those deals, those tensions there exist.
And the biggest tension, the biggest global tension when you look at the geopolitics is with China.
And for China, this ability, it views that to grow its economy and views the United States as holding it back is an existential thing. These are --
these are very big factors which will shake, further shake global confidence at a time when the security confidence is diminishing.
President Xi is really trying to exploit that with the European Union. This is going to be a real testing time.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. One could argue that the strength of American foreign policy and economic policy has traditionally been in sticking with
alliances and allies and forming wide trade groups and partnerships as opposed to something that's a bit more confrontational and transactional.
Those are more of the hallmarks of China and Russia. And now it appears that the United States is also using them as well.
Nic Robertson, thank you so much.
Well, joining me now for more on this is Lingling Wei, "The Wall Street Journal's" chief China correspondent.
Lingling, you just heard my conversation with Nic Robertson and the lead-in there with both sides, the United States, with President Trump and
President Xi and China digging in their heels. China increasing their tariffs now to 125 percent calling this back and forth, quote, silly.
What has the reaction been? I'm wondering, you're in New York, but obviously you have so many contacts in China now.
What has the reaction been, if there has been one, from the president as we've been reporting, wanting a phone call now with President Xi?
LINGLING WEI, CHIEF CHINA CORRESPONDENT, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Sure. Great to be here, Bianna.
So President Trump has made it clear that he's waiting for a call from President Xi Jinping. It's not going to happen. The reason being, it's
extremely rare for Chinese leaders to reach out to foreign leaders without any kind of preparation.
Now, we're just not seeing any kind of, you know, communication, high-level communication going on between Washington and Beijing. We had a big piece
early this week talking about, you know, China's efforts to get to the core team of the Trump administration has repeatedly failed because there's such
a mismatch between how China operates and the Trump administration's style.
So what we're seeing right now is really a stalemate in communication between Trump administration and Beijing. And for Xi Jinping to reach out
to Trump and to have this conversation, and especially given the kind of pressure China is saying is under right now, it is very, very unlikely.
GOLODRYGA: Do you think this is an example of just having lack of knowledge about the Chinese culture, the communist parties, functioning there? I
mean, because it seems as if roles are reversed. I remember when Nancy Pelosi as Speaker visited Taiwan, and there was a lot of frustration in
China and Beijing as to how president -- how the president of the United States could have allowed that without understanding their two separate
branches.
Are we seeing the opposite here in your view that there's a lack of understanding as to the nationalism, perhaps in the pride from someone, an
authoritarian like Xi Jinping, and acquiescing to what he's viewing as a demand from the United States?
WEI: So the Trump administration, you know, it does appear that they know China. They know China pretty well. They know the kind of people in under
Xi Jinping's leadership, you know, who have the direct lines to him.
So what the -- based on reporting, what the Trump team has requested is that, you know, fine.
[12:10:13]
GOLODRYGA: Lingling, I'm so sorry. We lost audio with you. It's really frustrating now, especially since you're here in New York. We'll try to
reconnect when we get a chance. We definitely lost her? Yes. OK. OK. You're back? OK. Hi. Yes. See you. It was just about waiting the extra few
seconds.
WEI: Hi.
GOLODRYGA: OK. I'm sorry. Keep going.
WEI: I apologize. So anyway what I was getting at is that the Trump team, they do understand, you know, who are the people in China who have the
direct lines to Xi Jinping.
So what they have requested is to talk to people who are really close to Xi, but that's not how China operates. They want to go through the
established diplomatic channels. They want to go through the established ways of doing things. So this huge mismatch is really why we're, you know,
stuck right now basically.
GOLODRYGA: And we know that Xi Jinping learned a lot of lessons in terms of diversifying trading partners and expanding his toolbox following the
initial round of tariffs from President Trump during his first term in 2018.
And though they say they're not going to exceed the 125 percent mark, what was interesting is that they were saying there's more damage they could
inflict upon the United States, a sort of a threat if this continues to escalate.
What are those additional forms that they can use to hurt the United States?
WEI: Absolutely. Basically, you know, essentially, the -- China's response today basically saying we're done playing the tariff tit for tat
escalation. We have other tools we can use. So everything is the first trade war between President Trump, you know, the Trump administration
during the first term and China.
China has developed a very, you know, big arsenal of tools to hit back at U.S. companies with ties to China. Those tools include export controls of
critical minerals companies like chip makers need to use to make chips. And also include, you know, trade blacklists that could severely restricting --
restrict U.S. companies, you know, ability to conduct business in China.
GOLODRYGA: And they're also reaching out to other countries including closing up to E.U. members, specifically the prime minister of Spain, I
believe, was meeting with Xi Jinping despite the warning from Treasury Secretary Bessent against doing so.
We'll continue to follow this story Lingling Wei. Thank you so much for your reporting.
WEI: Of course. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: And speaking of Spain, it is one of the world's top exporters of olive oil including to the United States. CNN's Pau Mosquera visited a
family-run business to see how the industry is preparing for potentially even more tariffs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAU MOSQUERA, CNN REPORTER: This is olive oil or liquid gold, as we call it in Spain. This is a business that exports nearly $1 billion of this product
per year from Spain to the United States.
Right now, we are on a family-run company, located south of Madrid. And we are being told that here, they produce around 45,000 bottles of this
product per day. And 30 to 40 percent of this olive oil goes directly to the United States.
Now, they have decided that they will introduce the impact of the reciprocal tariffs announced by Donald Trump to the final sales price of
their olive oil, but not all Spanish companies can do the same. And that's why many of them are waiting for the aid promised by the Spanish government
a package of around $16 billion to try to mitigate the impact of these tariffs on their businesses.
Pau Mosquera, CNN, Madridejos, Spain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: On the U.S., tariffs are likely to blow a sizable hole in the wallets of Americans. That is according to research published Thursday by
the Budget Lab at Yale which says the latest tariffs will cost the typical middle-class household $3,443 a year. Now that estimate factors in Donald
Trump's 90-day pause on country specific tariffs, as well as the surge in U.S. tariffs on Chinese goods to at least 145 percent.
Let's stay on this with CNN reporter Matt Egan. And you heard the president there, Matt, today while -- or yesterday rather, while continuing to sound
optimism, also noting that this may be transitional this period too. And perhaps we're in for a few months, if not longer of pain for the American
consumer.
[12:15:04]
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes. The American consumer is already expressing some significant anxiety about all of this turbulence out a Washington and
the volatility on Wall Street.
So new numbers out this morning from the University of Michigan show that consumers sentiment in the United States, for the month of April, tumbled
by 11 percent. So the second lowest level on record. Lower, as that chart shows, lower today than it was during the Great Recession, which is pretty
incredible when you think about it. These numbers go back all the way to the 1950s.
The only point where consumer confidence was lower than it is right now was three years ago when a lot of Americans were panicking over $5 gas. Of
course, right now, gas is relatively cheap. This is really all about turbulence out of Washington and, of course, on Wall Street.
And the internals in this report were pretty ugly. Americans marked down their views on the current situation. They also are less optimistic about
the future. They're increasingly concerned about unemployment.
And here's a number that I think is going to get the attention of officials at the Federal Reserve. Almost seven percent, that's how much consumers
expect prices to go up over the next 12 months. That is a major acceleration from March.
And we haven't seen a number like this. We have to go all the way back to the 1980s during that inflation crisis to get a higher figure than this
one.
Listen, at the end of the day, this, of course, is bad news, bad report from the perspective of the White House. But there's also significant
economic implications too because consumer spending is the number one driver of the U.S. economy. It's one of the most important factors where
the whole entire world economy.
And if people are feeling anxious enough where they decide to maybe shop less, maybe they're not going out to eat, perhaps they're deciding not to
buy a car or go on vacation, that, of course, would do real damage to the economy.
Now, I would note that sometimes Americans say that they hate the economy. That's what they tell pollsters. And they keep shopping anyway. So we have
to wait to see how this plays out in the real economic data.
But clearly, this points to a pretty dark mood on Main Street. Bianna?
GOLODRYGA: Well, that's one way to bring down a trade deficit is to just have consumers stop buying and shopping. Not the -- not the avenue and
path, I would, imagine the administration was hoping to bring that deficit down, but these are pretty gloomy numbers.
Matt Egan again, thank you so much.
EGAN: Thanks, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Well, a federal investigation is underway after a family of five and a pilot were killed in a helicopter crash in New York on Thursday. The
video we're about to show you is of the moment the helicopter crash into the Hudson River. And a warning you might find the footage disturbing.
Eyewitnesses captured the tragedy unfolding as the sightseeing helicopter fell from the sky and plunged upside down into the river.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: River traffic, be advised. You do have an aircraft down Holland Tunnel. Please keep your eyes open for anybody in the water.
Please keep your eyes open. You guys see anything in the water, please let us know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just circling over Holland now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: So tragic. Bystanders reported seeing the helicopter spinning out of control. What you see here is a piece of the chopper actually
falling from the sky.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BELLE ANGEL, EYEWITNESS TO HELICOPTER CRASH: I noticed that a helicopter, the propeller just exploded in the air.
There were other people on the boardwalk and they said, we were like -- first, we were like shocked. We were like, did you see that? Is that real?
You know, we were like questioning ourselves, did we just really -- did that just happen? Because as soon as the propeller exploded, the helicopter
lost control and it was waving back and forth. It was like a sway, like, you know, like -- we were like, no, no, no, no, no. And it just kept going
and then it crashed into the water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: And we're learning more about the family on board the helicopter, an executive with the German company Siemens, Agustin Escobar
from Spain was with his -- with his wife and their three children.
Officials say Escobar was in town for a business trip and his family came to join him in New York City to celebrate his wife's 40th birthday. The
cause of the crash is still unknown. So heartbreaking.
Still to come for us, the U.S. Health Secretary says he is launching a major study into autism, but critics wonder if it will produce any honest
results.
And trade, tariffs, and turnarounds, the billionaires speaking out against Donald Trump's new economic policies.
But first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IVAN RAIKLIN, FAR-RIGHT EXTREMIST: I'm not sure yet if you are or are not on the deep state target list, because I haven't consumed all of the
information that you've put forth to determine what your status should be.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: But we've been hanging on with you.
RAIKLIN: As we ruin you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[12:20:00]
GOLODRYGA: Wow. Far-right extremism -- extremist, who says he's responsible for the January 6 Capitol Hill insurrection. CNN confronts him, after the
break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Far-right extremist, Ivan Raiklin, is spreading the false claim that the January 6th attack was a set up. And he says he's keeping a,
quote, retribution list.
CNN's Donie O'Sullivan went to confront him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O'SULLIVAN: Impeachment hoax, 2020 election. So this is your -- this is your enemy list?
RAIKLIN: This is the deep state target list. Just a portion of it. Some of the high-value target, if you will.
O'SULLIVAN: Who's target number one?
RAIKLIN: I'd probably say Nancy Pelosi.
O'SULLIVAN: All right.
RAIKLIN: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Ivan Raiklin is a far-right extremist.
RAIKLIN: Yes. Just hit the deep state right in the heart.
O'SULLIVAN: So who do you think was ultimately responsible for the attack on the Capitol?
RAIKLIN: So I would say probably me. I'm the one.
REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): President Trump retweeted a memo from an individual named Ivan Raiklin entitled, Operation Pence Card that called on
the vice president to refuse the Electoral College votes from certain states that had certified Joe Biden as the winner.
O'SULLIVAN: When you say you're responsible for January 6 --
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): So my legal strategy forced Nancy Pelosi to conduct the deliberate breach and facilitate the deliberate and cited
entrapment of January 6th. That is why I'm responsible.
Exposing the Nancy Pelosi fedsurrection of January 6th.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): He promotes the conspiracy theory that January 6th was a setup.
RAIKLIN: Some people call it a entrapment. A fedsurrection, a parliamentary coup.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your shirt. It has a list of names of the retribution tour.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): And he's got a retribution list.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Biden laptop cover-up, the COVID-19 pandemic.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): For those he believes have wronged President Trump and the American people.
RAIKLIN: Jim Clapper, right? Mike Hayden, Brian Kemp, Brad Raffensperger. The list goes on and on.
I prefer the term retribution.
Liz Cheney, we're coming for you. Adam Kinzinger, we're coming for you.
O'SULLIVAN: You mentioned Pelosi, what do you think she would be charged with in this scenario?
RAIKLIN: I mean, simple statute. This is treason.
O'SULLIVAN: Treason?
RAIKLIN: Yes. Absolutely. And I would like to see at the end of the due process, lawful capital punishment.
[12:25:06]
O'SULLIVAN: Would you be disappointed if in 12 months from now somebody hasn't been executed for treason?
RAIKLIN: I think the nation will be furious.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): He says even I could be a target.
RAIKLIN: I'm not sure yet if you are or are not on the deep state target list, because I haven't consumed all of the information that you've put
forth to determine what your status should be.
O'SULLIVAN: But we've been hanging out a lot.
RAIKLIN: As we ruin you.
O'SULLIVAN: As you what?
RAIKLIN: Just like you ruined us. An eye for an eye look up Leviticus as a Christian man.
RAIKLIN: You never responded to me. Where are your loyalties? Are they to Ireland? Are they to the United States of America? Or are they to the
criminal news network? Are you nominating yourself to be on the deep state target list?
O'SULLIVAN: Do you think I should be?
RAIKLIN: Well, you're not answering any questions that will automatically make me not even want to investigate you.
O'SULLIVAN: Uh-huh. Yes.
RAIKLIN: Should I be investigating you?
O'SULLIVAN: Who do you think you should be investigating?
RAIKLIN: I'm waiting.
O'SULLIVAN: All right. Well, thanks for your time, Ivan. We appreciate you.
Yes, we're done.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
Some tech industry giants have worked for months to win Donald Trump's favor. They may donate donations to his campaign or his inaugural fund or
both. Some even visited him at Mar-a-Lago. But now, their wallets are taking huge hits from the president's policies.
[12:30:10]
CNN business writer Clare Duffy has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes. It's interesting because these five leaders, Amazon founder, Jeff Bezos, Apple CEO, Tim Cook, Google CEO,
Sundar Pichai, Meta CEO, Mark Zuckerberg, and Tesla CEO, Elon Musk, they sat front row at Trump's inauguration. They donated to his campaign or his
inaugural fund, either through their companies or personally, all presumably because they hoped that his policies would benefit their
businesses bottom line, but that is not how we've seen the situation play out, at least in these first three months of Trump's presidency.
Even after Wednesday's market rally, these companies have collectively lost $1.8 trillion in market value since the start of this year. For Meta,
that's been tens of billions of dollars of market value lost since the start of this year. For the other companies, hundreds of billions of
dollars. Of course, much of that has to do with uncertainty around how these tariff policies will play out.
And as we see the company's share price and their valuations declined, we're also saying that these leaders are taking a hit to their personal
wealth. None more so than Elon Musk. Musk donated at least $290 million to Trump's campaign. He has now lost $107 billion in net worth since the start
of this year.
Now, we are starting to see some of these leaders speaking out with concerns about Trump's tariff policies. Elon Musk warned that they would
have a significant impact on Tesla. Amazon's CEO warning that consumers could start to see higher prices if these tariffs remain in place.
But we have not seen all of these leaders, at least publicly speaking out. Although, you have to imagine that there must be some behind-the-scenes
conversations happening. These leaders trying to use the leverage, the relationships that they built with the Trump administration to raise their
concerns about these policies.
Clare Duffy, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Clare for that report.
Still to come on ONE WORLD, we take you to a gathering of people who think the biggest threat to mankind is that we aren't having enough children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN DOLAN, NATALCON ORGANIZER: There's a civilizational catastrophe coming. And the way to solve it is to have sex. Like that's got to be the
easiest pitch in history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: The commander of a U.S. military base in Greenland has been removed following Vice President JD Vance's controversial visit to the
Arctic Island last month.
The Pentagon says that it has lost confidence to Susannah Meyers ability to lead. Now it comes after Meyers reportedly sent out an email pushing back
on Vance's actions and comments during the trip.
[12:35:08]
Meyers' ouster comes as President Trump has repeatedly expressed interest in annexing Greenland, vowing to acquire it, quote, one way or another.
And the top health official in the country says that the U.S. is embarking on a massive testing and research program to look into the causes of
autism.
Robert F Kennedy Jr. says there is an autism epidemic and he said that by September he should know what is causing it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR. U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We've launched a massive testing and research effort that's going to involve
hundreds of scientists from around the world.
By September, we will know what has caused the autism epidemic and we'll be able to eliminate those exposures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: But it is worth noting that Kennedy has a long history of pushing unfounded conspiracy theories that link autism to vaccines. And
critics wonder if this new study will be done in good faith.
So let's bring in CNN medical correspondent Meg Tirrell with more on this.
Listen, Meg, it is a worthy cause. Obviously, there is a lot of research that is going into autism, but the concerns here are valid, given his past
skepticism about the connection between autism and vaccines and also the target date of September somehow magically having more answers.
What are you hearing from the medical community?
MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: All of those concerns and more and even in that same interaction with President Trump at that cabinet meeting
yesterday, President Trump then suggested it would be great to know what this is. Maybe it's a shot.
So it seems as if the answer to this is preordained. And according to decades of science and dozens of studies, if they come out of this and
suggest that indeed the culprit is vaccines, that would be wrong, based on the science that's been done. As you noted, five months also is in just
unrealistic timeline to do legitimate science into a question like this.
It's important to note also the National Institutes of Health, which will play a key role in this research already says on its website, quote, no
link has been found between autism and vaccines, including those containing thiomersal, a mercury based compound.
We heard this morning from vaccine researcher, Dr. Paul Offit, who said, quote, it doesn't take a psychic to see where this is going, noting there
have been two dozen studies showing that kids who got the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine had no higher rates of autism than kids who didn't get that
vaccine.
It is true though, Bianna, that rates of autism are rising in the year 2000. The rate of diagnoses in children was about one in 150. Now in 2020,
it's one in 36. And Robert F Kennedy Jr. suggested in that cabinet meeting that new data will soon show it's up to one in 31. And so, you know, we do
see rates rising.
But experts and advocates for the community say a big contributor to why we're seeing rates rising is increased awareness of what autism is, a
broadening definitions of autism to include more folks who may have been either left out or considered to be dealing with something else in previous
years. Improved screening tools and processes and earlier detection. All of this is driving rates higher.
Also, a lot of research has gone into drivers of autism and things have been identified, including genetics and certain environmental factors. But
the one thing that's really been studied the most is vaccines and there has been no link shown.
And so there's just a lot of concern that this is going to be another wild goose chase coming up with a preordained and wrong answer and further cast
out on vaccines and stigmatize the autism community.
Bianna?
GOLODRYGA: Meg Tirrell, thank you so much.
Well, JD Vance has three. Donald Trump has five. Elon Musk has at least 14 that we know of. We are talking about children. And it seems that having as
many kids as possible has become a battle cry among some of the people closest to the U.S. president. It stems from a belief that birth rates are
plunging, especially in richer nations.
CNN's Meena Duerson recently attended a conference where attendees talked about their strategy for having more babies.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JACK POSOBIEC, NATALCON SPEAKER: Raise your hand if you are a mom or a dad in the room here tonight.
This is the war for civilization and we are going to win it one life at a time.
MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're here at NatalCon, which is a gathering of about 200 people from all over the world who have come here
because they all feel very strongly that the world needs more babies.
DOLAN: There's a civilizational catastrophe coming, and the way to solve it is to have sex. Like, that's got to be the easiest pitch in history.
DUERSON: Birth rates around the world are plummeting, and they think this is the issue of our time.
HANNAH CENTERS, NATALCON ATTENDEE: It's a massive conversation, and that's why we're here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to encourage more people to get married and have kids. We need those people to be the people of the future.
DUERSON (voice-over): Many countries are no longer having enough kids to replace their populations. Some experts predict this will cause labor
shortages and inflation, permanently changing the economy. The people most passionate about this call themselves pronatalists.
[12:40:11]
MALCOLM COLLINS, FOUNDER, PRONATALIST.ORG: People are like, why are high fertility people always so weird?
DUERSON: Malcom and Simone Collins have four kids, soon to be five, and are some of the loudest advocates for pronatalism.
M. COLLINS: What we've seen is pronatalism and demographic collapse have become the global warming of the right. Some of the first people who really
recognize the scale of the problem are major players in the White House right now, you know, like JD Vance and Elon Musk.
MUSK: The birth rate is very low in almost every country, and unless that changes, our civilization will disappear.
DUERSON: Elon Musk's fixation with population collapse has pushed pronatalism into the spotlight. His tweets about NatalCon helped double
attendance for this year's event, where the tickets cost $1,000.
BENJAMIN DETRY, NATALCON ATTENDEE: Yes, I spent all of my savings coming here, actually.
DUERSON: Do you want to have kids?
DETRY: Yes.
DUERSON: Do you have -- you don't have kids?
DETRY: No, no.
DUERSON: How many do you want to have?
DETRY: Well, minimum of five. I want to have my first 22. And then I want to have.
DUERSON: You got to get on that.
DETRY: Yes, I know.
DUERSON: Organizers said they heard a lot of interest in matchmaking. So they gave yellow wristbands to singles to help them find each other.
You have a yellow wristband?
DETRY: Yes.
DUERSON: So you're open to mingling?
DETRY: Yes. Well, yes.
DUERSON: Have you met anybody good?
DETRY: Well, I'm not sure if you can tell.
DUERSON: Yes.
DETRY: But, like, there's a lot of lads here. There's not that many ladies.
DUERSON (voice-over): The speakers are largely dry economist types focused on tweaks to boost birth rates, from tax credits to housing. But
politically, the vibe is firmly right wing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The marginal people need to go back to the margins.
POSOBIEC: We want to raise families. The left is raising pride flags over cat shelters.
PEACHY KEENAN, NATALCON SPEAKER: 2024 actually did have a slight uptick in births. Bad news, it was just the anchor babies from the illegal
immigrants.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's pretty difficult to draw a neat, tidy circle around everybody here. The far right or the extreme right, like we would
like to have more babies, but we would like to have more of our babies.
On the other end, people like more babies are always good, whether its babies or immigrants. And the other axis, you know, trad Catholics,
Mormons, and then like a kind of tech bro or tech futurist genetic selection of embryos, trying to refine the quality of the babies that are
born.
DUERSON (voice-over): Because the Collinses are building their family through IVF, using experimental testing to rank embryos for traits from
health risks to intelligence, they get one of the biggest criticisms of pronatalism that its code for eugenics.
M. COLLINS: Eugenics is when you say these are good traits, these are bad traits.
SIMONE COLLINS, FOUNDER, PRONATALIST.ORG: This is just people choosing among their own embryos. We're not talking about sterilizing people or all
the classic problems that are out there with eugenics.
DUERSON (voice-over): Ahead of the conference, press coverage called out some speakers as race science promoters and eugenicists. And students
accused the event of hosting Nazis. A criticism organizer Kevin Dolan, dismissed.
DOLAN: You can't be governed by people calling you names. I think that these ideas, they're not going to come from people who don't want to hurt
any feelings.
DUERSON: Do you feel like there's a risk of alienating people with the kind of speakers you've selected, and that tenor --
DOLAN: Yes, of course. Yes.
DUERSON: And is that a risk for the larger cause?
DOLAN: I mean, yes, some of those people are polarizing. They're my friends. And, you know, I'm not going to chuck them under the bus.
PAUL CONSTANCE, NATALCON ATTENDEE: We can't let the right own things that are that fundamental.
DUERSON (voice-over): Paul Constance was the only liberal we met the whole weekend.
CONSTANCE: I'm here because I think it's a really big, big topic. And progressives need to be in the conversation.
DUERSON: Why is this such a big deal to you?
CONSTANCE: So, I have kids in their 20s. Young people today feel very hesitant or unable to form families. It's very easy to talk about cat
ladies and to imply that people on the left don't care about kids. It's much harder to actually put forward policies that would make everyone of
any political stripe be more inclined to form a family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that one of the things that often gets skipped over in any discussion of nihilism today is kind of the actual lives of
women who make decisions about whether or not to bring a child into the world. Don't forget about the ladies. Don't forget about the people who
have the babies.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:45:47]
GOLODRYGA: Well, despite a week of economic uncertainty and fears that the U.S. could head towards a recession, the U.S. president seemed to be in an
upbeat mood earlier this week. He even bragged about how much money his billionaire friends had made on the stock market. Reportedly in the rally
that came after he paused most reciprocal tariffs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This is Charles Schwab. It's not just a company, it's actually an individual. He made -- he made 2.5 million today and he made 900 million.
That's not bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: While markets largely bounce back on Wednesday, the turmoil on Wall Street continues, and many billionaires have spoken out against
President Trump's tariff plan, including Elon Musk, one of Trump's closest allies and advisors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS HOST: Do you personally expect a recession?
JAMIE DIMON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, JPMORGAN CHASE: I am going to defer to my account at this point, but I think probably that's a likely outcome.
ELON MUSK, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I hope it is agreed that both Europe and the United States should move, ideally in my
view, to a zero tariff situation, effectively creating a free trade zone between Europe and North America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Well, around this time yesterday, we heard exclusively from the former U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, in her first interview since
Donald Trump took office for a second time. She spoke to our show exclusively and echoed those concerns about the economy, telling us that
the U.S. president has actively damaged it with his new policies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANET YELLEN, FORMER U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: We had a very well- functioning economy and President Trump has taken a wrecking ball to it.
This is the worst self-inflicted wound that I have ever seen in the administration impose on a well-functioning economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Time now for The Exchange, Canadian businessman and co-host of the investment show, Shark Tank, Kevin O'Leary is a supporter of U.S.
tariffs on China. In fact, he's calling for a significantly higher rate than 400 percent. Why not 500 percent? We'll get to all of that in a
second, but he is all about forcing Beijing to the bargaining table and he says China must be punished for, in his words, not playing by the rules of
international trade.
Kevin O'Leary, welcome to the program. First time we're having you on. Thanks so much for joining us.
So I wanted to play that sound from my co-anchor in my conversation yesterday with Janet Yellen because I heard you speak after hearing her
sound with my colleague Jim Sciutto yesterday and really lists a concern about the U.S. not going after intellectual property theft and illegal
trade practices by China.
Now that element did not come up in our conversation with Janet Yellen. But we should note that President Biden, so her administration in May of 2024,
quadrupled tariffs on electric vehicles from China from 25 percent that had been laid out by President Trump, former President Trump in its previous
administration to 100 percent, and they included everything from solar cells, batteries, computer chips, steel, and aluminum.
So 18 billion dollars worth of tariffs that were added for some of the reasons that you expressed concern over yesterday with Jim Sciutto. And
they said that was to save the American worker and also to punish China for their unfair trade practices, and collectively, they said that was a
targeted approach that would cost the American family an average of $1,500.
[12:50:13]
I'm sure you've seen the research that shows Trump's policies now as they would stay in place would cost the American household roughly $4,000.
So what did you like about what you heard from Trump that you didn't like from what you heard from the Biden administration?
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: So my problem with the Biden administration and the last administrations for Almost 40 years is they
never put any consequence on the theft of IP. Those electric cars manufactured in China that you talked about, my bet is up to 30 percent of
the IP in those cars has been stolen from U.S. technology. And that's how they develop that industry, as they have in almost every other industry all
the way, you know, from basic plumbing supply technology all the way to DNA sequence testing. It's all stolen IP.
And frankly, as an investor watching this happen, this is go back as far as 2020 -- or sorry, 2000 when China came into the WTO. In the first month,
they didn't abide by what they agreed to abide by.
Any disputes never settled, can't use their courts to litigate. And yet, they have access to our financial markets and eyes an issue of security and
debt. Have to compete with them and yet, they don't even comply with gap.
So all of these aggregate issues have come to a head in my view. So it's really not about the tariffs. So Biden put tariffs on, who cares? It didn't
change the behavior of the Chinese. They continued to steal.
And specifically, let me give an example how that works. Over 20 years has been millions of cases of this. Make an investment in a new technology in
the United States and maybe, whatever the number is. Say it's a hundred million dollars, whatever.
And the product gets launched and it becomes successful. The minute that service are good, hits five million in run rate sales on Alibaba or on
Amazon or in retail or direct to consumer, it doesn't matter, it gets knocked off in China. And it's sold in the U.S. weeks later at 30 to 40
percent discount. And yet, that company that's stealing it didn't have to amortize the hundred million dollar R&D cost
And the original company loses all of its margin because it's being made at a variable cost of manufacturing, plus maybe 10 percent profits. And they
lose -- they get wiped out. This happens all the time.
And as an investor, I'm saying OK, I've had enough. I mean, this is just getting ridiculous. Why do we hold their feet to the fire? And that's why I
bombastically said, let's go to 400 percent.
What I want to do is just stop the trade knowing that, you know, Xi has to deal with it because he's got millions of people in factories making stuff
that only the largest consumer market in the world can absorb. And if that stuff just sits on boats in the ocean, he's going to be out of a job when
they come rioting with torches to the castle because they can't feed their families. That's what he has to worry about and he knows it. And his
economy is weak. So I say squeeze them now and let's get to the table.
GOLODRYGA: So listen, I am not here to advocate on China's behalf at all. We have been financial journalists. And journalists, in general, have been
quite critical about their deceptive trading practices for many, many years, eyes an American as a journalist obviously want to see America's
succeed and prosper.
But I'm wondering if it gives you pause as a businessman from so many of the headwinds that we've been hearing this week. Just today, consumer
confidence plummeting to decades, level lows, more concerns about inflation spiking, recession talk, the 10-year yields on the U.S. treasury bonds
actually going up, instead of down, the dollar going down. There's no good headlines out there.
So as a businessman, what is your advice to Americans who are watching this worried about their 401(k) and looking to people like you to say, hey,
where are you investing because maybe that'll give me a little bit more clarity?
O'LEARY: Well, you know, I've lived through market corrections my whole investing life. And they're very uncomfortable when they occur. Although
it's impossible to time the market. You've seen volatility as much as seven percent in four hours on the indexes just in the last 10 days.
So, you know, 20 percent corrections are happen all the time. And so I -- it doesn't matter why. They just happen. And you can always blame something
from the occurrence of them, but they are the nature of our capital markets. There's volatility in price discovery and transparency.
When this issue gets resolved, markets will align back into their normal advance as they have for almost 200 years, generally providing eight to 10,
12 percent returns on average, and that's because the American economy works.
What I'm pointing out here is, yes, there's volatility, yes, people are uncomfortable, yes, people don't like watching sausage being made in these
negotiations. But if we don't fix this problem now, while we have the leverage, we're going to be in a lot more trouble down the road.
[12:55:02]
And I think that message is coming out of the administration. You have to be willing to stomach the volatility while you bring China who's attempting
to steal their way to economic dominance. If you don't have to pay for any R&D, you can get that pretty quickly. And that's basically what they're
doing.
I don't care what it is, military weaponry, right down to ordinary supplies. I mean, they don't play by the rules. That's obvious. And there's
been countless examples and disputes.
And I'm just wondering why no administration wants to deal with this, including the Europeans. Look at the complaints the WTO has had for the
last 20 years. Give me a week where there wasn't a complaint about China. And nothing is done about it.
Well, I think this particular administration is saying, OK, while we have the leverage, why we are 26.11 percent of world GDP, and almost 40 percent
of all consumables, let's work this out with China.
And I would encourage Xi to listen because I think he's in a lot more trouble than the American economy is. And maybe he wants a save face and I
hope we can find a way to do that. But either they meet in Geneva or Riyadh or in Washington or I don't care. Let's just get this over with.
But it can't be a situation where we're back to the old ways. I invest, you steal, you discount. I'm done with that. I'm just done with it.
GOLODRYGA: Kevin O'Leary, we'll have to have you back for more conversation on this really important subject. I promise you this, it's not going away
anytime soon. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a good weekend.
O'LEARY: Take care.
GOLODRYGA: And that does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga. Thanks for watching. "AMANPOUR" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
