Return to Transcripts main page
One World with Zain Asher
CNN International: Trump Celebrates Easing Of Tariff War He Started With China; U.S. And China Agree To Dramatically Cut Tariffs For 90 Days; Trump: The Relationship Is Very Good; We're Not Looking To Hurt China. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired May 12, 2025 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, HOST, "ONE WORLD": Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ZAIN ASHER, HOST, "ONE WORLD": And Zain Asher. You are watching One World.
U.S. President Donald Trump has just signed an executive order cracking down on prescription drug prices. The administration is looking into ways
to force prices down. If that doesn't work, the government will implement a rule that matches drug prices with the lowest international price for that
specific medication.
GOLODRYGA: And President Trump is now about to set off for the Middle East. He will visit Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE. The White House says the big
focus will be strengthening economic ties and shoring up relations with key Middle Eastern allies. We will bring you more on the visit over the next
couple of hours here on One World.
ASHER: Yeah. We were just talking. It's been such a busy hour --
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
ASHER: -- such a busy hour for us, and actually for the U.S. President. He took a moment today to celebrate the pause from the trade war that, of
course, he started.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. That Liberation Day just a few weeks ago. The President said that there has been a total reset in the relationship between the U.S.
and Beijing after trade negotiators agreed to dramatically cut tariffs between the two nations. The lower tariffs will last for 90 days, starting
Wednesday, as the two economic superpowers continue to negotiate a more complete trade deal. The U.S. tariff on Chinese goods is going from a
whopping 145 percent to 30 percent, while China is dropping their tariff from 125 percent to 10 percent. After months of tough talk on China, the
President is now striking a very different tone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICASHER: The talks in Geneva were very friendly. The relationship is very good. We're not looking to
hurt China. China was being hurt very badly. They were closing up factories. They were having a lot of unrest, and they were very happy to be
able to do something with us. And the relationship is very, very good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: And we should note, there were no reports of widespread unrest, and the U.S. was also significantly hurt by Trump's trade war.
But now, let's take a look at where stocks are. Stock markets all over the world have been surging on this news of reduced tariffs, even if it is just
a temporary pause, or rather reduction for 90 days.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Still 2.5 percent up across the board, NASDAQ up nearly 3.5 percent. That is quite a sight for sore eyes here today.
Joining us now, our CNN White House Reporter Alayna Treene, and our Paula Newton who is in New York looking at the business side of all of this.
Alayna, let's start with you. The White House calling this a victory. We heard from the President earlier saying that if things don't go his way, if
they can't come up with concrete measures for more specific details out of this deal that favor the United States, that the tariffs would go up after
95 -- after 90 days, though, maybe not to 145 percent where they were. The Treasury Secretary, of course, saying that was unsustainable. Walk us
through how the White House is reacting to this news over the weekend.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. Look, of course, and as you mentioned, Bianna and Zain, they are trying to frame this as a victory lap.
But, I can't overstate enough how much of a drastic change this is, and one that many people weren't anticipating from just one weekend of talks. I'd
remind you that at this point last week, and even just the days leading up to the Secretary and the United States Trade Representative, Jamieson
Greer, going to Geneva, the Washington and Beijing, the U.S. and China had not been talking, not even, let alone face-to-face, but also even over the
phone, about how to find a way to deescalate this trade war with China. And so, the fact that they walked away from this with such drastic changes to
the current tariff policy is very significant.
I want to just walk you through exactly what the changes are. So, we know that they're expected to only be for 90 days and go into effect on May
14th. So, that's just two days from now. And essentially, the United States is going to temporarily lower its tariffs from 145 percent on China to 30
percent, and China will lower its tariffs on the U.S. from 125 percent to 10 percent.
Now, you talked about the much friendlier, optimistic tone we heard from the President. We also heard similar rhetoric and tenor from the Treasury
Secretary Scott Bessent in his press conference this morning. I want to take a listen to how he put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: The consensus from both delegations this weekend is neither side wants a decoupling, and what had occurred with
these very high tariffs, as Ambassador Greer said, was the equivalent of an embargo, and neither side wants that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:05:00]
TREENE: So, as you heard him say there, that essentially the tariffs that they had in place on both sides was essentially an equivalent to a trade
embargo, and he said neither side wants that.
But, again, this is such a change in posture from the Trump administration, which had really tried to make China the example for the President's trade
policies, as we saw them lower tariffs to 10 percent for every other country. They kept it at such a high rate on China because the President
has long said that China was the worst of the abusers of being unfair with trade, that they were really taking advantage of the United States. And so,
to have this come so quickly, I'd also note that this is only the second real kind of trade agreement we've learned of following the U.S.-UK
agreement last week, I mean, it is very significant.
And two other things I just want to note about the President's remarks from earlier. He also said that he would expect to, or perhaps may speak with
President Xi Jinping at the end of the week. They have not spoken since this trade war really kicked off, since the United States imposed that 145
percent tariff on China. And so, that would be a significant development as well. From here, though, of course, is what is going to happen. They have
90 days to work out the finer specifics of what could go into this agreement. The President said he believes that they will successfully
strike a more permanent deal within that timeframe, and if not, the tariffs will not go back to 145 percent but would go higher. So, all of that, of
course, still to be seen, Bianna and Zain.
ASHER: All right. Alayna Treene live for us at the White House. Stand by.
Paula, let me bring you in, Paula Newton joining us live now from New York. So, we got some clarification from the U.S. President there in that auto
tariffs, steel and aluminum tariffs, were not necessarily going to be included in this 30 percent reduction. But, it is worth noting that on any
normal day, under any sort of normal circumstance, a 30 percent tariff on all Chinese goods coming into the U.S. would be problematic, to say the
least. I mean, American companies still have to figure out how much of these costs they're going to eat, they're going to have to swallow, versus
passing on to the American consumer. It could still lead to price hikes. Walk us through that, Paula.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And to your point, Zain, there is real collateral damage here. Now, while the Trump administration says that
this is a victory and perhaps they believe that increasing the tariffs to what amounted to an embargo was a good negotiating strategy, I would argue
that a better negotiating strategy would have been to threaten those kinds of tariffs, and in so doing, in threatening, even if they had to affix
timelines to it, would have been better. Why? Because the collateral damage they've created within the American economy itself, leaving all the other
allies out in the cold here for a moment, was not necessary. And you have small and medium-sized businesses in the United States, and in the end of
the day, consumers, scrambling on so many fronts.
And I want to point something else out here. What did not happen in this deal in Switzerland was that the de minimis. I know that's a big word. All
it means is that anything valued under $800 in the United States before would come and go from China into the United States duty-free. It wasn't
searched. It kind of was given a pass. That's gone. So, what does it mean? It means, if you have a small and medium-sized business in the United
States, there is trade friction everywhere you look, not just from the 30 percent that you just outlined, Zain, but from everything else as well. And
as I said, that creates problems, maybe not for the Walmarts of the world, let's say, but certainly for smaller companies. And it is that dynamism in
the American economy that keeps, certainly, prices down for consumers and keeps inflation in check.
I do want to point out something else as well. Given this deal with China right now, that still leaves this kind of confusion, Bessent said there, a
decoupling was not in the interest of the United States or China. But, let's be clear, he said that strategic decoupling still had to be done.
What does that mean? It means getting China to stop dumping things like steel industry.
One more thing to note, I wonder what allies are thinking, countries like Japan, countries in the EU, Canada, Mexico. China has now taken up all the
oxygen in the room, and they are still very large trading partners in the United States, and there is still a lot of work to be done on those files.
GOLODRYGA: One would imagine they're thinking, at least, the President of the President of the United States seems to be willing to negotiate. We
will watch and see how those negotiations go in the weeks to come.
Paula Newton, Alayna Treene, thank you so much.
ASHER: Thank you, guys.
GOLODRYGA: We want to bring in Kevin McCarthy. He is the former House Speaker. He joins us live from Washington. Mr. Speaker, thank you so much
for taking the time. We have a lot --
ASHER: A lot.
GOLODRYGA: -- to get through. So, let's get started on what can only be described as a colossal reversal from the President here, especially given
that China tariffs were the centerpiece of his new tariff policy, now going from 145 percent to now 30 percent.
[11:10:00]
Do you think this drastic change came not only from the CEOs of major companies in the United States warning him of what was to come, empty store
shelves in the weeks ahead, or also perhaps your former colleagues, members of Congress, also calling the President, concerned about what they are
hearing from their constituents and what that could lead to in terms of the midterms?
KEVIN MCCARTHY, FORMER U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: Well, no one ever believed 145 percent was going to stay. Remember, that escalated during that tension
period, and this is all about making sure America is not too dependent upon China, which we all discovered during COVID that they controlled 50 percent
of our medical supplies, that they controlled 90 percent of critical minerals, and 95 percent of the processing.
President Trump is always about negotiations, and I think he wanted to get into this negotiation. So, I think this is a positive. Remember, staying at
30 percent, President Trump is getting a lot of investment into America on this trip that he is going right now. You're going to hear a lot of
announcements of the more investment coming into America. And I think that's the discussion he wanted to have. It's looking more long term than
the short term.
ASHER: Speaker, I'm not sure if you heard our correspondent, Paula Newton there, but she talked about the collateral damage over the past sort of
month and a half.
Just in terms of Liberation Day, April 2nd onwards, with that 145 percent tariff announced, you think about the wild swings that we saw in the stock
market. You think about the contraction that we got in terms of GDP. You think about how much consumer confidence in this country has really
suffered as a result. You think about consumers and businesses frontloading because of all of the fear and uncertainty rushing out and saying, listen,
we have to buy goods right now because we've got to get ahead of the tariffs coming into effect. And then you think about even just down to sort
of the Port of LA and the Port of Long Beach, talking about the significant reduction in traffic that the ports are going to see as a result of these
tariffs.
When you think about the collateral damage over the past month and a half, I have to ask you, I mean, was it worth it? Was this the smartest way to
actually go about forcing China's hands here?
MCCARTHY: Well, the real question is, you can't answer your question until you look longer term. I mean, I've watched the ports of LA to be jammed
because so much imports are coming in, not exports going out. So, you want to look long term. What does it mean? We knew there had to be a disruption,
because this has built up over a number of decades, the dependency upon China, and that's what has to shift. Even our allies have said it and
watched it. And you can't -- look, everybody wants it to be smoother and easier and more strategic, but that would never happen. We've watched it
time and again, trying to have those negotiations with China. Promise one thing and nothing happened. Promise to end fentanyl and nothing happened.
So, I think you almost make it that disruption. You had to be a little stronger at it. Is there a short-term disruption? Yes, there is. But, only
long term will you realize that that was beneficial or not. They couldn't have gone longer than 60 days, because if you order a product from China,
it takes about 60 days to get on the shelves. So, I'm actually positive that this discussion happened now. You had to get into the room. Remember,
when Joe Biden took office, the general in China wouldn't even talk to American military. So, things needed to change, and now people are
communicating with one another. So, long term, it is a much better position that we're in today.
ASHER: Things need to change, and the U.S. does have some legitimate grievances when it comes to China, but you also have to remember that the
U.S. right now is in a trade war with pretty much the entire world, including with its closest allies. I mean, even the UK. I mean, obviously,
the UK got a trade deal just last week, but the U.S. had a trade surplus with the UK.
When you think about the fact that the U.S. -- I mean, China, right now, is in a trade war with the U.S. The U.S. is in a trade war with the entire
world. That aspect of it, do you agree with that?
MCCARTHY: Well, we're really talking not a trade war, but reciprocal. OK? So, what we're talking about what transpired after World War II. America
ended in a much stronger place in the rest of the world. So, we allowed all these products to come into America, and we've allowed even our best
friends to shut their industry down to American products. We have trade agreements with our allies, like South Korea, that's supposed to allow
American products to come in, but they still find ways to deny it. That is -- that was going to continue unless someone finally brought it up. It's
more about respect for each other's nations. You can be friends, but isn't it wrong that if America allows all your products to come in, that you
close your entire economy to American products? I think that's more a fairness issue.
And so, I don't believe it's a trade war. I believe it's something that has to be sit down and negotiated, and our friends have taken advantage of us.
Are they upset that we have finally called it out?
[11:15:00]
Yes. Does it mean there will have to be a discussion? Yes. And at the end of the day, I think America will be stronger for it, because trade will be
more fair in this process.
GOLODRYGA: So, is it about negotiating a fair trade deal with China and other countries, or is it about completely restructuring our business model
in the United States and bringing production back to the United States? Because it does seem, Mr. Speaker, to be a bit confusing, that that was the
message from the President, that was the message from the Commerce Secretary, a complete reorder. You know that you've heard from business
leaders as well, saying they don't know how to plan ahead if they've got to start to bring their factories back to the U.S. If it was all about getting
to 30 percent, what do you anticipate? What advice do you have for President Trump, as he is planning to speak with President Xi later this
week?
MCCARTHY: I always think, when President Trump says there is going to be a 10 percent tariff, that's going to go into place. And remember, President
Trump has always believed in tariffs, long before he ever ran for office. That's really what his principal fundamentally believes. And he always
believed that prescription drug prices were too high. So, you watched two things happen today that he has talked about his entire life. Now, anytime
President Trump says 25 percent higher, that's a call to negotiate, and what he is really talking about is opening up markets for American
products. That would mean, if the price is a little higher, that you would get more production in America that we lost. But, I don't believe you're
going to get all that production back, because it's just the world economy.
But, there is going to be some disruption as we go, but again, at the end of the day, at the end of this year, at the end of next year, and three
years from now, if people have invested more. And with technology, remember, China had an advantage over us with the cost of labor, but their
labor is up higher now. So, a lot of products moved out of China to Vietnam. That still didn't move into America. So, can we, with AI, with new
technology, can we level that playing field and get some of that production back in America and be less dependent upon others?
But one thing I do know is we cannot allow China to control 50 percent of our medical supply. We cannot allow China to control 90 percent of critical
minerals and 95 percent of the processing because --
GOLODRYGA: Yeah.
MCCARTHY: -- our military will not be able to continue. So, do you have to have disruption to have that discussion? Yes. But, you also need the policy
makers in America, when we have the ability inside America to produce those critical minerals, to open up those mines and actually provide it here.
GOLODRYGA: You mentioned that executive order to lower drug prices. That is something that he attempted in his first term as well. You and I both know
that that is deemed unconstitutional. It got mired in the courts. We'll see what will happen this time right now.
But, before you do leave, I have to ask you about another development, and that is the President seemingly willing to accept a airplane, a luxury
plane from the Qatari royal family, that would be retrofitted and used as Air Force One, a number of issues come to mind, the Emoluments Clause, the
ethics behind it, and also the security factor involved, given what I would imagine the Defense Department would have to do to make sure that this
plane would be safe enough for the President to make some of the most consequential decisions and phone calls while on this airplane. All of this
amounts to the question of whether or not you agree with this. Is this something that you would feel comfortable with?
MCCARTHY: Look, I think our current Air Force One is old, more than 40 years, and we need a new one. I think the best place to go is, let's let
Boeing finish that -- the new planes coming in. Let's have them speed up the process. I don't think another country should be providing America. We
don't need that. Look, I don't know what staffer worked on this, but I know Susie and President Trump, that's probably not what they desire. I think
America can afford their own plane and build their own Air Force One, and I think President Trump deserves a new Air Force One, and every President who
is moving forward.
It's a beautiful plane, but inside, where technology has been today, I think Boeing needs to find a way to the ones that we appropriated a couple
of years back to finish those and get them done sooner.
GOLODRYGA: So, you'd be advising him against taking this plane from the Qataris.
MCCARTHY: Yes.
ASHER: Speaker, before we let you go, one last question.
MCCARTHY: Sure.
ASHER: Obviously, the Trump administration has been reportedly considering sending migrants from the U.S. to countries in Africa, specifically Rwanda
and Libya. These are countries that, of course, have really poor human rights records. Libya, of course, has been mired in conflict for about a
decade. Your thoughts on the humaneness of that policy.
MCCARTHY: I think the policy you're talking about is just people that have entered the country illegally, removing them back to the country they came
from. That's really the fundamental question there. Now, if you're looking at the country --
ASHER: No. That's right, the country they came from, but sending them to Libya and Rwanda, it's something the UK tried to do. But, it got blocked in
the courts.
[11:20:00]
What are your thoughts on that specific policy?
MCCARTHY: I don't know exactly what Trump policy is doing on that. I just know from the discussions I had with this new administration, it's just
securing the border, what the American public asked them to do, removing people that are here illegally, sending it back to the countries that they
came from. So, I'm not familiar with the policy you speak of.
GOLODRYGA: All right. OK. Speaker Kevin McCarthy --
ASHER: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: -- it's your first interview with us. I hope it's the first of many to come. Thank you.
ASHER: We'd love to have you back.
MCCARTHY: I'm at throw (ph) to coming back. Thanks for having me.
ASHER: OK.
GOLODRYGA: Thank you.
MCCARTHY: Have a great day.
GOLODRYGA: You too.
All right. Up next for us, the White House hails a historic return to the Middle East for President Trump, as he prepares to visit the Gulf states.
Now, it comes while crises flare in Gaza and Iran.
ASHER: Plus, the Red Cross convoy is on its way to retrieve American hostage Edan Alexander. We'll have the latest after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right. We are waiting to hear word from Israel about the release of American hostage Edan Alexander. The Red Cross convoy is on its way out
to Gaza right now to collect him. Hamas announced Alexander's imminent release after direct talks with the U.S. Alexander family -- Alexander's
family, rather, calls it the greatest gift imaginal. You can only imagine how they're feeling right now, just the relief. They also thanked U.S.
President Donald Trump and his administration. A source familiar with the matter described the move as a total goodwill gesture.
GOLODRYGA: His mom, Yael there, waiting to greet him as we speak. Israel, meantime, has not agreed to any ceasefire or prisoner swap with Hamas, and
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says plans for an intensified military campaign in Gaza will continue.
Jeremy Diamond joins us now from Hostages Square in Tel Aviv. And Jeremy, I mean, having been where you're standing right now, I just imagine that
those around you are anxiously waiting to see those first images of Edan Alexander alive, cross into Israeli territory there, and within the minutes
and hours to come, reunited finally with his family.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. That's exactly right. And we are already starting to see scenes of joy and jubilation here at
Hostages Square in Tel Aviv, as we have now learned that the Red Cross did indeed arrive at the meeting points in Gaza in order to pick up Edan
Alexander and bring him to an Israeli military base just outside of the Gaza border, and that is where, for the first time in more than 19 months,
the Israeli soldier, Edan Alexander, will be able to finally embrace his mother.
[11:25:00]
He will also there meet with Trump administration officials, including Adam Boehler, the hostage envoy, who traveled with Yael Alexander from the
United States last night, arriving today, and who was, of course, instrumental alongside Steve Witkoff, President Trump's Special Envoy, in
securing this agreement to -- for Hamas to release Edan Alexander, something that U.S. officials and other sources who I've spoken to have
told me they very much see as a goodwill gesture on Hamas' part, but not a one-off goodwill gesture, a gesture that they hope will now provide the
momentum in order for Israel and Hamas to agree to a broader deal, to secure the release of additional hostages, the 58 remaining hostages still
in Gaza once Edan Alexander is released, and of course, also secure a ceasefire in Gaza, perhaps even to end the war there, which is what
President Trump has said himself over the course of the last 24 hours, making clear that he hopes that this is the first of the final steps in
order to end what he has described as a brutal war in the Gaza Strip.
Prime Minister Netanyahu today speaking directly with President Trump and agreeing to send an Israeli delegation tomorrow to Doha, Qatar, to pursue
further negotiations.
So, there is certainly a sense of optimism, a sense of momentum following several weeks during which hope had really rapidly been fading about the
prospects for a ceasefire deal. But, it very much does seem that President Trump and his decision to travel to the Middle East at this moment, that
the timing of that visit provided an additional kind of pressure point here in order to unlock this gesture of the release of Edan Alexander, and we
will see whether it unlocks much more, perhaps, in the direction of a broader deal to secure the release of more hostages and to provide a much
needed ceasefire in the war in Gaza.
ASHER: And Jeremy, just for our international audience, please remind us a little bit more about Edan Alexander's story. I mean, this is a young man
who is obviously an American and Israeli national. He was born in Tel Aviv. He also grew up in New Jersey, and he was essentially serving with the IDF
when he was snatched from that military base in southern Israel. What more can you tell us about him?
DIAMOND: Yeah. That's right. He was a 19-year-old Israeli soldier at the time of his capture, on October 7th. He was serving at a military base just
outside of the Gaza border. He grew up in New Jersey. Like so many Americans, his family lives there as well. And so, his connection to the
United States obviously very strong, in addition to being an Israeli soldier, and that is obviously why the Trump administration pushed so hard
for his release. It has left, I must say, the families of other hostages here, with questions about what will happen to the fate of their loved ones
who don't have American passports. But, we will see, of course, very shortly, how that progresses.
GOLODRYGA: This appears to be happening very, very quickly, the transfer of Edan Alexander, into Israeli custody, and we will be covering all of this.
And let's take a deeper dive now with our next guest.
ASHER: Yeah. We've got Steven Cook from the Council of Foreign Relations. He is the author of "The End of Ambition: America's Past, Present, and
Future in the Middle East". So, Jeremy there just brought up a good question at the end of that interview, essentially saying, what does this
mean for the other hostages? As I understand it, there are about 59 hostages left in Gaza. Obviously, we know, unfortunately, that a lot of
them are not alive anymore. There is about -- OK. I'm just going to show our audience -- I'm sorry. My producer was speaking to me there. I'm just
going to show our audience some pictures, some live pictures there of President Trump, who is boarding a plane headed to the Middle East.
Now, we know, Steven, that he is choosing not to go to Israel. Just give us your thoughts on that. Obviously, I was in the middle of asking you a
completely different question, but we are looking at live pictures of the President boarding the plane heading to the Middle East right now. The fact
that he has chosen not to go to Israel and the White House didn't really give much in terms of an explanation as to why, what do you make of that?
STEVEN COOK, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, look, there have been presidential visits to the Middle East that have not included
Israel on the itinerary. I think that the President's intention here in Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar is really focused on the
possibilities for investment and weapon sales, investment of those very wealthy countries in the United States and weapon sales to those countries.
Israel -- the President has met with Prime Minister Netanyahu a number of times, and of course, there is no secret that there is a certain amount of
friction between the two leaders.
[11:30:00]
And I think that the President, by cutting a separate deal with the Houthis about attacks in the Red Sea, and now this big push on Edan Alexander and
possibly other -- and other hostages, via direct talks with Hamas, is signaling to the Israelis that things have changed. The way in which this
administration is going to go about business in the Middle East is quite different, and that the Israelis better get on board. And I think by his
not going there, this is a signal to the Israelis that they better get on board quickly, otherwise they will be left behind.
GOLODRYGA: Get on board for what exactly, Steven, because, as you note, you mentioned the Houthis and that deal with the United States reportedly
blindsiding Netanyahu and his government, concerns about the ongoing negotiations between the U.S. and Iran. That seems to be taking center
stage in Israel, even as the war continues in Gaza. So, what is it exactly the United States is hoping Israel does at this point? Because at least
when it comes to the issue of Iran, I'm not sure the United States is giving Israel many options here.
COOK: Well, that's exactly right. I think it's important to recognize that the kind of MAGA foreign policy wing of this administration is really
ascended. I think pushing Mike Waltz, who is the National Security Advisor, aside, is a clear indication of that. And that wing, that America first
wing of the administration, is quite skeptical of Prime Minister Netanyahu and quite skeptical of Israel, they believe, and I believe J.D. Vance has
said it, that they were wary of Prime Minister Netanyahu trying to drag the United States into a conflict with Iran.
And by what -- and what I mean by getting on board is the Israelis accommodating themselves to independent American diplomacy in the interest
of how the President determines the national interest of the United States, and that the Israelis need to be more flexible when it comes to these
negotiations and to adapt to this new reality, which the Israelis have been reluctant to do, and previously, have been able to use their friends in
Congress, as well as previous presidents, particularly in the case of President Biden, his ideological affinity for Israel, to shape the American
approach to difficult issues like Iran's nuclear program and of course, the hostages in Gaza.
ASHER: And Steven, as you're speaking, we are looking at live pictures of Hostages Square in Tel Aviv. Obviously, you see a lot of people waving the
Israeli flag. There is so much excitement for the release of Edan Alexander. But, it's important to note, this comes at a really precarious
time, because Israel has sort of promised to intensify its offensive in Gaza, including by seizing territory and also displacing a lot of the
population in Gaza again, and just in terms of what this means for other hostages. Obviously, there is the release of this American where a lot of
people are excited, but as I was mentioning earlier, there are 59 hostages still in Gaza. We understand that 24 of them or so are still alive. The
fact that Israel is intensifying its offensive in Gaza at this time, what will that mean for the remaining hostages in the Enclave?
COOK: It remains unclear. The Israelis have said that their strategy of increasing military pressure on Hamas was one of the reasons why Edan
Alexander is now going to be freed, that he has been released without condition. It seems that it's more complicated than that, that Hamas is
looking to curry favor with the Trump administration, as the President was traveling to the Middle East and thus agreed to release the last remaining
alive American. What it means for the remaining 24 or so hostages is very unclear. But, under American pressure, the Israelis are dispatching
negotiating teams to both Doha as well as Cairo to try to work out a further hostage release that may lead to, ultimately, the end of
hostilities.
But, this is the real problem. This has been a problem for many, many months, is that the right wing of Prime Minister Netanyahu's coalition does
not want this war to stop. They want to remain focused on destroying Hamas, however they define it, and have essentially said that the lives of the
hostages and the freedom of the hostages are secondary to them.
GOLODRYGA: And without their support, this coalition falls apart and this government falls apart --
COOK: That's exactly right.
GOLODRYGA: -- of Prime Minister Netanyahu, which is why so many have been questioning what his priorities actually are at this point.
Steven, again, reading into what appears to be some daylight between President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu, now we haven't heard
President Trump say explicitly that he is calling for Israel to have ceasefire at this point, he is still putting pressure on Hamas, but news at
least that's been reported from Edan Alexander's family, that if he is healthy enough, he is planning on meeting -- that President Trump would
like to meet with him while in Qatar, one would imagine if an Israel trip were in the offing, it would happen right now, what does that suggest to
you that a hostage that has been kept in captivity for this long would travel to another country, as opposed to the President coming and seeing
him and declaring victory, saying, I freed another American?
[11:35:00]
COOK: Well, of course, he is the President of the United States, and people tend to go to him rather than he going to them. But, once again, there is a
daylight, we shouldn't sugar coat it, there is daylight between the Israeli government and the Trump administration on a variety of key issues. And if
people are paying close attention to the President's approach to foreign policy, this kind of tension was inevitable.
I do think that the families of hostages have been extraordinarily strewed in addressing President Trump since -- even before he was inaugurated,
believing that he would have the kind of influence ability and not be shy about crossing Prime Minister Netanyahu in seeking the release of the
hostages. Everybody knows that the President has been deeply moved by the plight of the hostages. He has also talked about getting humanitarian aid
into the Gaza Strip. So, while he seems to have lost the interest over the course of the last month or so in the Gaza Strip, now with the prospect of
Edan Alexander's freedom, he seems to be much more engaged in this issue, which is likely to deepen the divide between the Israeli government and the
White House.
ASHER: This release of Edan Alexander has been described as, quote, unquote, "some kind of goodwill gesture by Hamas". I want to get your
response to that and also this idea of the possibility of Hamas ending up releasing some additional hostages at a later date. What incentive do they
have to do that, without any kind of guarantee about the end to this war, which is what Hamas really wants at the end of the day?
COOK: Yeah. Hamas really wants an end to the war, and it wants to remain a viable force when that war comes to end. It does seem that Hamas is engaged
in an effort to curry favor with the President of the United States, as the President is traveling to the Gulf, where the President is likely to hear a
lot about the situation in Gaza, the plight of Palestinians, the lack of humanitarian aid, and that this conflict finally needs to come to an end.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some coordination going on between Hamas and a number of Arab states with regard to this release of Edan
Alexander and putting the Israelis in a difficult and awkward position politically with the President. It strikes me that there is the possibility
that the President will take this up, now that Edan Alexander is going to be free, to push the Israelis to finally bring this conflict to an end.
I don't think the President would be disappointed to see a new Israeli Prime Minister in Jerusalem. We know that there is bad blood between Prime
Minister Netanyahu and President Trump. There is a significant trust deficit going back to the first term, President Trump's first term, and I
think that the President would be happy to see some other Israeli President -- Israeli Prime Minister who he can deal with.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. President Trump had made it clear his dissatisfaction with Prime Minister Netanyahu being the first foreign leader to congratulate
President Biden at the time for his victory.
Steve, stand by for us.
I do want to bring in Kylie Atwood, who has been covering this as well, from the State Department. Obviously, again, the President really engaging
in this issue once more on news that a deal had been reached to free the last live American hostage, Edan Alexander, and we heard from him earlier
this morning, before he departed, Kylie, also referencing that there sadly are over 20 deceased hostages, a number of them also American citizens, who
remain in Gaza -- in captivity in Gaza, and now the effort is on to bring their remains home as well.
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I think that's a really good point, because today, obviously, is just such a day of happiness for the
family of Edan Alexander, but we continue to talk about him as the final live Israeli-American held by Hamas.
[11:40:00]
But, those bodies of those Americans who are still held by Hamas are something that, of course, the families are still focused on, securing
their release, and President Trump is demonstrating in his comments today that he is keenly aware of the need to get those remains back to their
loved ones. And so, that will keep him engaged on this, even though there are no more living Israeli- Americans that are being detained held hostage
by Hamas.
But, of course, we also know that there are the dozens of Israelis who are still being held, and it will be really interesting to watch and see what
happens over the next 48 hours here, because while Prime Minister Netanyahu said that the release of Alexander is not going to necessarily lead to any
ceasefire talks, he said there was no commitment on that front. Then, just hours later, after he had a conversation with President Trump, after he had
a meeting with President Trump's Special Envoy for the Middle East, Steve Witkoff, he changed his tune a bit in saying that they would be sending an
Israeli delegation to Doha tomorrow to discuss a potential ceasefire, and of course, the release of those Israeli hostages who are still held by
Hamas.
So, the Trump administration is clearly putting pressure on Prime Minister Netanyahu to facilitate, to actually engage in talks that could lead to an
end to this conflict. Of course, we have been through moments over the last few years where there has been pressure on Netanyahu, but this pressure
might be different, and we'll watch and see if it's actually able to manifest into some sort of ceasefire. Of course, what we're watching for in
the short term, Hamas said that the release of Alexander would then trigger a ceasefire and allowing of humanitarian aid into Gaza. We know that that
aid flow has been halted over the course of the last two months by the Israelis. So, that is really a near-term movement that we'll be watching
for.
ASHER: Yeah, and that blockade essentially has sparked so many warnings in terms of a risk of famine in the Enclave. Our producer just let us know
that Edan Alexander, Kylie, has now officially been handed over to the Red Cross by Hamas.
Obviously, in terms of previous hostages who have been released, what do we know about what happens next? I mean, obviously, the Red Cross convoy is
going to make its way into Israel, but then what? There is presumably some kind of medical assessment. Walk us through the next steps here.
ATWOOD: Yeah. That's right. So, what happens now is the Red Cross will take Alexander to the Israeli military and then he will be transferred to an
Israeli hospital for medical checks. Of course, we know that there have been videos of him while he was held captive, which were just chilling, of
course, to watch, particularly for his family. So, they will need to see how he is doing, both physically and of course, mentally. And then we'll
watch and see his reunification with his family. His parents flew over to Israel. We know that Adam Boehler, who is the Special Envoy for hostage
affairs now for the Trump administration, flew over last night with his mother on Mother's Day. What a jubilant moment that must have been for her
finally being able to go and see her son.
So, we'll watch for those moments to unfold, which will, of course, be incredibly emotional.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. And you're looking at live images of the road, where you see supporters waiting for Edan Alexander to be driven by the Red Cross and
into Israeli territory and into the hands of Israeli -- IDF officials before being taken to the hospital. I had been in Israel during one of the
earlier prisoner releases, the earlier hostage releases, and there are about four hospitals that are prepared to take in these hostages. They stay
there for about four or five days, get evaluated, and then hopefully are sent home relatively soon.
Steven, when you hear that this deal was done, quote, unquote, "in good faith" by Hamas, this has led many Israelis to wonder behind closed doors
what the U.S. had offered in return, in exchange, and that adds, then, to the sort of developing friction between these two countries, or at least
their leaders. What more, if anything, are you learning on that front?
COOK: Yeah. This is something that the Israelis have been quite suspicious of, and they're quite suspicious of the President, not only on this issue,
but on the Iran issue and the question of the ceasefire with the Houthis in the Red Sea. And what it seems clear is that Hamas, which, from the Israeli
perspective and the previous administration's perspective, could not be trusted with these negotiations, has curried favor with the President and
gotten at least some sense of a commitment from the Trump administration to lean on the Israelis to finally bring this conflict to an end.
[11:45:00]
Hamas has never been assured that when the conflict finally came to an end that they would remain a viable political force in the Gaza Strip. Thus,
they've never been willing to give up hostages. Now, one can read between the lines and see how the administration is maneuvering here, and suspect
the possibility that the Trump administration has given some sort of assurances, whether direct or indirect, that if the hostages are released,
they will restrain the Israelis from pursuing Hamas and Israel's stated military goals, which is the destruction of Hamas.
ASHER: And Steven, just talk to us about how much pressure Hamas and actually, honestly, all Palestinians are under right now. I mean, we talk
about the sort of goodwill gesture to release Edan Alexander, when you think about this Israeli blockade of the Enclave where there is really very
little, if any, food imports that are being allowed in and what that means for the Palestinians, who a lot of people are saying are at the risk of
famine at this point in time. I mean, literally, hospital patients simply are not being given food at this point. Talk to us about the sort of
pressure people there are under right now.
COOK: Yeah. Well, throughout this conflict, Palestinian civilians have been caught in the crossfire and have suffered unimaginable loss. The Israelis
believe, however, that part of the problem, a significant part of the problem with aid in Gaza, is that the Hamas is absconding with it and then
using it to raise funds and extort other Palestinians. There is some reason to believe that this is accurate. What we've seen over the last month are
large numbers of Palestinians actually demonstrating against Hamas for this kind of pain and suffering that they're inflicting on the Palestinian
people of the Gaza Strip.
Still, it is clear that this is part of an Israeli strategy here to put as much pressure on Hamas, and it seems that they are feeling it, both
internally from the Palestinians as well as militarily from the Israelis, and that's why it seems to me that they have been willing to part with Edan
Alexander in a way to get the Trump administration to lean on the Israelis to relieve the pressure on themselves, first of all, and then secondly, the
Palestinian people.
GOLODRYGA: The psychological trauma that this war and the last over 18 months has had on families, has just been immeasurable. And of course, the
families of those hostages that have waited for their family members to come home, obviously, those are the luckier ones that have been able to be
reunited. We know of the 59, now 58, with the release of Edan Alexander, hostages that remain in Gaza. There also remain a number of Israeli
hostages that are still believed to be alive. One of those is Omri Miran, and we're joined now by his brother-in-law, Moshe Lavi, who has been
fighting for his release since October 7th, and has been a voice for all of the hostages and their families since then.
And Moshe, I know this must be a really difficult day for you, on the one hand, knowing that your brother-in-law still remains in captivity. But, to
see the release of Edan Alexander in just moments, hopefully we will see that convoy come by, how are you feeling right now?
MOSHE LAVI, BROTHER-IN-LAW OF HOSTAGE OMRI MIRAN, & FORMER IDF CAPTAIN: Thank you for having me. I want to emphasize first that I'm so happy and
relieved to see Edan hopefully returning back home, reuniting with his parents, Yael and Adi, who became such good friends and source of support
and love for me over the past 20 months, as we're both based in New York, New Jersey. But, as you said, it's also a moment of concern for the
families of hostages who are still remaining in captivity, because we don't know what this -- what the day will lead. There are two options. Either the
U.S. will stop its push for the release of all the hostages, or this release will lead to increased negotiations for all of them, including
Omri.
ASHER: Obviously we've heard Omri's name time and time again. And I have to say, I just -- I always find it so moving interviewing you, Moshe, because
you have campaigned tirelessly for your brother-in-law. I mean, he honestly would be so proud of just how much effort and how much hard work that you
put in.
[11:50:00]
I mean, you've pretty much made it your life for the past nearly two years. But, for people who don't necessarily know Omri, I mean, obviously we got
that video of him just a few months ago, but just talk to us a little bit more about him. I mean, I just think it's so important to humanize a lot of
these hostages that have simply become sort of names in the media, but to just talk about who they are.
LAVI: Yes. Thank you for asking me that. And I just returned from Los Angeles, where I participated in the Milken conference last week, meeting
with officials and private sector individuals to do exactly that, humanize Omri's story, and by extension, that of all the hostages. Omri marked his
48th birthday a month ago in captivity, second birthday in captivity. He is a Shiatsu therapist and a gardener, love of nature, humanity, enthusiast
sport supporter, especially basketball and soccer, loves literature, loves reading, an incredible father for my nieces, Roni Alma, and devoted husband
to my sister, Lishay.
We can't stop fighting for him. We can't stop living his story and making sure his name appears everywhere so that people can relate with who he is,
still in captivity, and we received a proof of life for him a few weeks ago. Hamas released a psychological warfare video featuring him. We didn't
focus on video itself, on what it was said there. We focused on the fact he is alive, and it's the second video they released, and he is alive. We can
still bring him home to Roni, Alma and Lishay.
GOLODRYGA: And Moshe, for you having to be a champion for your brother-in- law, for Omri, and for all of the hostages there be a voice for them both in Washington and in Jerusalem, and you're hearing from some family members
of Israelis who remain in captivity there in Gaza, again, elated that yet another hostage will be released, but also increasingly concerned that
their family members don't have a U.S. citizenship, and wonder whether their Prime Minister will fight for them as much as the U.S. President has
clearly fought for and achieved the release of their loved ones. Just walk us through that really complicated dynamic.
LAVI: Yes, so complicated. I want to stress first that we acknowledge that the Israeli government led several deals in order to release many of the
hostages who were captured on October 7th. However, over the past few weeks, we have been increasingly alarmed by statements and move made by the
government that were counterproductive and to the cause of releasing all the hostages and put the hostages as a secondary mission in the war against
Hamas. This move by President Trump to rejuvenate, in a way, the negotiations, his statements yesterday, making clear that what he wants to
see is the end of this brutal conflict and the release of all the hostages, puts again the pressure on the Israeli government on one hand, but also on
other stakeholders in the negotiations, Hamas and their sponsors, Qatar, Turkey and Iran.
Everything comes together. There are a lot of different kind of negotiations taking part in the region this week and in the past few weeks.
There is President Trump's visit to the Middle East. And we're hoping that this moment, this week, will bring about the release of all the hostages,
and we'll make sure that all parties understand that we can't tolerate more hostages being held captive by Hamas, and that the end of the war needs to
come with the release of them, and of course, a better future for Gazans that doesn't include Hamas in power.
ASHER: Moshe, just in terms of concrete steps that you are going to take as a result of what our screen right now, which is the imminent release of
Edan Alexander, what options do you have open to at this point in time? I mean, obviously, you touched on the fact that Omri just turned 48. He --
his birthday was on April 11th, just a few weeks ago. And on top of that, this is the second time he has celebrated his birthday in captivity. He is
a father. Obviously, he is your brother-in-law. He is a husband. He has got two small daughters. This is somebody that has just a beautiful life
waiting for him back home in Israel.
So, just in terms of concrete steps, I know you said that you are incredibly happy about the release of Edan Alexander.
[11:55:00]
That release, again, is imminent. I'm just looking at the screen right now, but -- and we see people cheering.
LAVI: Amazing scenes.
ASHER: So, I'm assuming that there might be a convoy coming. I'm watching it very closely.
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
ASHER: But, just in terms of what you can do, in terms of concrete steps to secure your brother's release and to secure that -- to ensure that he is
not forgotten, walk us through that.
LAVI: Well, the first thing we as families are doing are acting in Israel. My sisters, both the Lishay and Mikha (ph), were in the Knesset today,
voicing Omri's voice, voicing their frustration that we -- that Omri and the rest of the hostages are not on top of priority of the officials and
making sure they understand that when they're making decisions, they need to look at the eyes of Roni and Alma, the eyes of all of the children who
have been suffering from this ongoing crisis, and tell them that we're not bringing your parents home or not bringing your siblings home or your loved
one's home just because we have other priorities.
And the second thing we are doing is, of course, continuing our advocacy work in the U.S. Again, we're not policy makers. Our role is to make sure
that the policy makers, whether in the U.S., in Israel and worldwide, understand that there are people involved here, that they need to take care
of those individuals, and they have responsibility to ensure their release because they were kidnapped unjustly by Hamas, held unjustly by Hamas, and
need to be returning home, and we put the pressure on everyone, not only on our elected officials.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. And as always, it is important to note that the onus here is on Hamas. If Hamas --
LAVI: Hamas just wants to --
GOLODRYGA: -- wanted this to end, they would release all of the hostages immediately.
Kylie, I do want to get back to you quickly, because we have seen this become a personal issue for the President as well, in the fact that he is
meeting -- he has met with a number of the released hostages over the last few weeks and months, and it has clearly touched him to meet with the
families, to meet with these hostages that have come to see him at the Oval Office. I was listening to Edan Alexander's mother in an interview say
that, for Edan, Thanksgiving was his favorite holiday. And when the President hears these types of personal anecdotes and stories and sees the
faces of the people who he helped release, this clearly has motivated him as well.
ATWOOD: Yeah. That's right. I think that hearing the stories gives life to what is, on paper, a matter of diplomacy and a matter of deal making for
the President, but in reality, a matter that actually impacts people's lives. On a daily basis, we know that Alexander -- Edan Alexander's family
said that they were living in agony. They spoke about every single day just being effectively paralyzed by the fact that their son was still being held
captive by Hamas.
I think it's also important to remind folks that it was just last month that Hamas came out and publicly said that they had lost contact with the
people who were actually holding Alexander. Obviously, we don't know if that's true or if that was just psychological warfare on behalf of Hamas,
which, of course, is a tactic that they do use. But, hearing that whether or not it was true, you have to imagine deeply impacted his family, as they
obviously had heard time and time again of hostages that were held by Hamas who were found dead and didn't come home alive.
So, the jubilation of today is even more pronounced because of what they've been through. And I think that President Trump spoke today at the Oval
Office about his personal conversations with these American families, and not only the ones whose loved ones have come home alive, but of course, as
you said, the people who have family members who are -- whose bodies are still being held by Hamas. That is something that President Trump clearly
is focused in on. We'll have to watch and see what kind of pressure comes on that front, as we wait for Edan Alexander's release.
ASHER: All right. Kylie Atwood live for us there. Steven Cook, thank you so much. And Moshe Lavi, my prayer is that the next time we interview you, it
will be under very different circumstances that we are going to be interviewing you when Omri gets to come home. That is my prayer. No more
you watching on the sidelines. I wish you all the best, my friend. Thank you so much for joining us on the program.
GOLODRYGA: Thank you. Moshe, thank you all.
And stay with us. We'll have more One World after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
