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One World with Zain Asher
Russia And Ukraine Hold Direct Peace Talks In Istanbul; U.S. President Heads Home After Whirlwind Tour Of The Gulf; Cassie Ventura Back On Witness Stand For Fourth Day; Third-Largest Commuter Line In America Grinds To A Halt; Trump On way Home From Mideast Tour Filled With Deals; World's Best Struggle As Unlikely Leader Emerges; Aired 12-1p ET
Aired May 16, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:00:37]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Zain is off today. You are watching "ONE WORLD."
Turkey is hailing the Russia-Ukraine talks as an important day for world peace. And the Vatican is being offered as a venue for future meetings.
While there was no immediate breakthrough after the conclusion of those talks in Istanbul, Russia and Ukraine agree to a large-scale prisoner swap.
And agreed that each side would present its vision for a future ceasefire.
Now, as soon as the meeting ended, Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy held a phone call with the U.S. President along with the leaders of France,
Germany, Britain, and Poland. He and Russia's President did not attend the talks.
Also not there, Donald Trump, who said that there would be no movement without a meeting between himself and Vladimir Putin. He spoke while
winding up a Middle East tour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's time for us to just do it. I said, you know, they all said Putin was going, and Zelenskyy
was going, and I said, if I don't go, I guarantee Putin's not going. And he didn't go. And I understand that, but we're going to get -- we're going to
get it done, so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do you think you'll meet the president?
TRUMP: As soon as we can set it up. I was going to -- I would actually leave here and go. I do want to see my beautiful grandson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Let's bring in CNN's Nick Paton Walsh, who joins us now live from Kyiv.
Nick, are we learning any more about that phone conversation between President Zelenskyy, the leader of European allies and President Trump
while he was flying back on Air Force One?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No. We don't have specifics as to what exactly was discussed. We do know what the
European leaders said after that phone call.
French President Emmanuel Macron said it was unacceptable that Russia continued to ignore demands for a ceasefire, and U.K. Prime Minister Keir
Starmer said that Russia must be punished for refusing peace here, I paraphrase there.
So clearly, European leaders emerging from that call almost a mirror image of a phone call made on Saturday.
From here, Kyiv, alongside also Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, still hopeful that their pressure upon the U.S. president might potentially
yield sanctions consequences for Russia. Not only brushing aside the 30-day unconditional ceasefire, which they demanded saying they had support from
Trump back on Saturday, but also failing to send Putin to the talks in Istanbul.
Now, those talks in Istanbul were Russia's idea, Zelenskyy suggested it should be a presidential summit. Trump said he might be an intermediary
there. None of that happened, and the results today, I mean, obviously there's some important potential symbolism of direct talks beginning after
since the early days of the war in 2022.
But let's also be honest about the seniority of the delegation, a very junior Russian delegation, the Ukrainian sending their defense minister
here.
The results, well, look, yes, a substantial prisoner swap may well occur in the coming days, a thousand on each side, but bear in mind, those happen in
the sort of low hundreds levels reasonably regularly.
They've also said that they will continue to talk about the possibility of a presidential meeting, and that's already been offered by Ukraine for
Thursday, and Russia didn't show.
The final third piece is that both sides, according to the Russian delegation, will now go away and write up their versions or the ceasefire
might look like. Well, we know Ukraine's it's 30 days unconditional, air, sea and land. That's been offered since the weekend. And so ultimately,
this is, I think, about Russia composing its conditions that's not an unconditional ceasefire.
So there will be more talks. A source there, present around the room, suggested that they were more positive than potentially they could indeed
have been. But I think we've had a remarkable week here, where we started with the potential for real pressure, for a ceasefire, that ebbed, the
potential for meaningful talks in Turkey, that went away as well. And ultimately, we end now with President Trump who's really the power behind
all of this, saying nothing can be expected to happen until I move Putin directly, and also publicly not honoring what he seems to have made to the
European leaders in private, and that promises on pressure -- promises of pressure on Russia if they don't keep up their side of moving towards peace
here.
So ultimately, Moscow set the tempo, the timetable, the venues, the casting of the past week of peace talks, and now Ukraine is simply left trying to
show the White House that it still wants a peace that the White House doesn't seem willing to put pressure on Russia to achieve.
[12:05:13]
GOLODRYGA: Yes. I mean, it's worth noting, this is the first Ukrainian and Russian meeting to have peace stocks face-to-face in three years. But as
President Zelenskyy reiterated, these were low-level officials that Russia had sent.
President Zelenskyy had shown up himself. His counterpart had not. And here's what he said about Vladimir Putin not coming to these talks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: All of you know that this week we had a real chance to take important steps toward ending this war. If only
Putin had not been afraid to come to Turkey.
I was in in Ankara yesterday and thanks for participation and hosting us, President Erdogan. And that was really for a direct meeting with Putin,
whether in Ankara or in Istanbul, and not just for a meeting, but to resolve all the important -- all the important issues to my mind, but he
didn't agree to anything. I mean, Putin.
And you can also see that the Russian delegation that came to Istanbul is of a very low level. None of them are people who actually make decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Nick, he went on to say President Trump wants to end this war. U.S. support is essential, and American backstop is needed.
I'm wondering how President Zelenskyy walks away from this trip and these meetings with President Trump responding by saying that it's all about
Vladimir Putin having a face-to-face meeting with me.
WALSH: Ultimately, Ukraine has no choice here. They've learned that over the past months. If they fall out with the White House, as happened
spectacularly in the Oval Office, then they potentially run the risk of aid and intelligence sharing being cut off. That's catastrophic for their
troops on the front line here.
Europe even cleared that its bid to assist Ukraine militarily is dependent upon an American backstop here.
So Zelenskyy has no choice but to keep friendly with Trump, and that means continuing to go along with whatever peace process steps that White House
indeed suggests.
But I just want to read out to you something, Bianna, which kind of left me startled today. A bit of a view from an insider, well, a State Department
insider from the Trump administration. The ambassador to Kyiv for the United States, Bridget Brink, previous appointed prior to the Trump
administration, released an op-ed today about her abrupt resignation here, saying that the, unfortunately, the policy since the beginning of the Trump
administration has been to put pressure on the victim Ukraine rather than on the aggressor Russia.
She goes on to say she had to resign because she can no longer continue serving in that capacity. But then says, peace at any price is not peace at
all. It is appeasement. And history has taught us time and time again that appeasement does not lead to safety, security or prosperity. It leads to
more war and suffering.
Remarkable words here to see from a serving U.S. diplomat three decades in government, characterizing how she viewed the Trump administration's
policy.
We don't know how this will all play out. And it is indeed possible that in private, Trump is starkly critical of Putin and on the phone with European
allies, makes promise of support that he will indeed honor.
But publicly, you saw him just there talking about how he would go immediately to meet Vladimir Putin, but might be first see his grandson,
instead holding out the notion of him being available to the Kremlin head.
Many who've dealt with Putin over the years have remarked that he respects strength, he respects being told conditions and having a tough
interlocutor.
We have Donald Trump here, I think, perhaps using his business mindset in negotiation to try and make sure the person he's talking to remains
friendly with him, but that doesn't seem to be working right now. And instead, we've had a remarkable week where we've sort of gone back almost
to zero, that the significant step of Russia and Ukraine talking directly, yes, but at such a junior level with what seems to be such maximalist
Russian demands, a source there suggesting that, indeed, they ask for more territory than they've actually conquered as part of this peace process,
suggesting, really, that they continue to inch forward incredibly slowly, hoping to drag this out.
Why? Plenty of signs that as summer months approach here in the ground hardens Russia's amassing forces in the east, potentially for some kind of
offensive.
We'll have to wait and see, but diplomacy isn't matching the pace at which that moment gains on many Ukrainians here.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And Russia amassing troops is something that CNN has been reporting per intelligence sources.
Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much.
We'll have more on the peace talks and the implications for Ukraine's future later this hour. We'll talk to Ukrainian parliament member, Oleksiy
Goncharenko.
Well, the U.S. president is headed home after a whirlwind trip to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates this week. Trump was heavily
focused on securing business deals.
[12:10:07]
Let's take a look at what officials say was achieved. Saudi Arabia pledging $600 billion in investments in the U.S. that included an expansive defense
partnership. Qatar committed to buying $96 billion worth of Boeing planes. And the U.S. and the UAE reaching $200 billion worth of deals, including
plans to deepen cooperation on artificial intelligence.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny is in Abu Dhabi for us.
So we've got deals, both business deals, economic deals, Jeff, and also diplomatic as well that the president has really been focused on
specifically as it relates to Iran's nuclear program.
The president today suggesting that Iran had been presented with the plan. We have Iran's foreign minister casting doubt on that, saying that no plan
had been presented. But this is clearly an area where the president is really prioritizing, getting a deal done.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: There's no doubt about it. I mean, every day, along the way on this journey from Saudi
Arabia to Qatar to here in the United Arab Emirates, President Trump has talked about Iran. He is, on one hand, extended an olive branch, if you
will, extended a hand, you know, speaking in kind language. He wants the economy to grow. He wants, you know, to do good things. And then another
turn to essentially threatening them if they do not come to the table and accept a deal.
But, Bianna, one thing we know is, even though the president says the -- there has been a formal deal presented, perhaps one of the reasons we've
not been briefed on that formal plan or, you know, it's been explained at all is because it is elusive and there is not one.
We've seen this time and time again from the Trump administration. The president says, there is a full plan and then the advisers are sort of
scrambling to fill in the details.
But regardless of that, we know that simply having a plan is not going to make a deal, particularly on the Iran nuclear program. We have a pretty
good example of this from the last time this was a negotiated during the Obama administration. There's a little reason to think that it would go
much faster this time. We shall see.
But that is one of the -- the things that the president certainly has prioritized as he has spent most of the week here. But you're right, it's
been a week of deal making, a week of diplomacy.
But for the President, we've also seen a bit more of a globalist of you. For someone who campaigned on the mantra of America first, this is a
president who seemed much more of a globalist this week, particularly when it comes to making those deals.
And the AI one that you mentioned at the end there, Bianna, that perhaps could be the most significant one of all. That is why so many business
leaders that were here, the White House advisor on artificial intelligence, David Sacks, was here all week long. That is something that could be a game
changer.
And some actually worry, is it going to outsource American jobs? So that will be, of all the things, to keep an eye on for the coming years. That
certainly is one of them in my notebook. Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And that's why you saw the CEOs of major tech companies accompanying the president on this trip as well, meeting with officials and
also wanting to get an in in this part of the world where China has significantly invested its resources in trying to develop partnerships.
This seemed to be one of the aims and focuses of the president.
Jeff, I do also want to ask you about these talks in Turkey over the war in Ukraine. I don't know if you heard my conversation with Nick Paton Walsh.
You have the Ukrainian president and European allies, both really offering stern remarks about Vladimir Putin not attending this meeting.
President Zelenskyy showed up and Vladimir Putin did not. And yet, as you've noted before in your reporting, the president of the United States
continuing to allow, seemingly allow Vladimir Putin to move the goalposts, now saying, oh, what's all about the two of them meeting?
What more are we hearing from the White House?
ZELENY: Look, it's been striking to watch this, particularly the fact that this meeting was Vladimir Putin's idea, because he did not want to agree to
a ceasefire, so that it would be a discussion. It would be a talk.
So the -- the -- one consistency throughout all of this is the White House and the -- the U.S. president giving Vladimir Putin a pass. There has been
an example, after example, after example, where the Trump administration and the president himself have allowed Putin to change his mind, not live
up to a hope agreement again and again.
So we have not heard the president respond to this. He is in communication, obviously, as he's flying on Air Force One. He's sending out messages on
Taylor Swift, a lot of other things, but not much of a response on Putin specifically.
And before leaving Abu Dhabi here, the president said that it's going to be up to us to have a one -- a one-on-one meeting.
[12:15:06]
So now, the Kremlin is on the -- the balls in their court, I guess, to respond to, are they going to meet with Trump or not? But that meeting has
been so elusive for the last four months. We've been covering this administration as we did the other one, the -- the prior one. And a meeting
with Trump and Putin is always talked about, but rarely actually in the work.
So we shall see if that actually happens quickly or not. But there is no doubt that with Putin not being on hand, and sending a junior ranks of
people, the White House, I'm not sure if they have egg on their face on this, but it certainly is a bit embarrassing in terms of not holding
Putin's feet to the fire on this.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. President Zelenskyy interpreted that way, saying that this was an insult to the president of the United States, Vladimir Putin not
showing up, at least publicly. That doesn't seem to be how President Trump is interpreting it, just saying that it's all about President Putin wanting
to meet him in person.
Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much. Safe travels home.
Well, it's day five of testimony in the Sean "Diddy" Combs sex trafficking trial. Just ahead, we'll get you up to speed on the latest court
proceedings with CNN legal analyst Jennifer Rodgers.
Plus, out of service. New Jersey transit engineers go on strike, impacting tens of thousands of commuters in the New York metropolitan area.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Cassie Ventura is back on the witness stand for a fourth straight day in Sean "Diddy" Combs racketeering and sex trafficking trial.
The court is working to make sure her testimony is fully finished by the end of the day, as prosecutors say that heavily pregnant pop singer could
give birth at any time.
It's her second day of cross examination by the defense, which has tried to suggest that she willingly took part in drug-fueled sex parties known as
Freak Offs.
Under prosecution questioning Ventura alleged her ex-boyfriend, Combs, physically and sexually abused her and coerced her into participating in
these Freak Offs.
CNN legal analyst Jennifer Rodgers joins me now.
Jennifer, I'm wondering how you view and interpret the defense and how they've conducted the cross-examination of Cassie -- of Cassie both
yesterday and today. Because Ventura, as we noted, is very pregnant. It does appear that the jury -- the jurors are quite sympathetic to her as
well.
[12:20:05]
There's a female attorney who is representing the defense and she's cross- examining her, but how has she been doing?
JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, generally, I think she's been doing quite well. I mean, certainly, she was composed and calm, emotional
at times, as one would expect as she went through this testimony. So I think she's done a good job for the prosecutors.
Defense has been successful in picking out certain pieces of evidence that they want to use in their summation to tell their side of the story, which,
of course, is that all of this --
GOLODRYGA: Oh, it looks like we have a bit of technical issue with Jennifer. Can you hear me, Jennifer?
I think we've lost our connection. We will try to come back to Jennifer if we can reconnect.
In the meantime, another major story here in New York, one of America's largest commuter rail services, has ground to a halt. Engineers at New
Jersey Transit went on strike today. Negotiations between the state-run commuter rail service and the union failed to reach a deal. The strike
disrupts hundreds of thousands of riders across the New York metropolitan area
CNN business and politics correspondent, Vanessa Yurkevich joins me now live from Penn Station in New York.
And, Vanessa, I know you've spoken with some of these engineers, some of these workers who are actually on strike. What are they telling you?
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, if you take a look behind me, I'm going to step out of the way just so you can
see the entrance to Penn Station here. This is an area where thousands of riders who rely on New Jersey Transit, the third largest commuter rail
system in the entire country.
They're usually flowing out in the morning. Very quiet this morning as this strike got underway. This is now impacting 100,000 commuters who rely on
this train service, but because of the strike, trains are idle this morning.
And really, it's because the union that is representing the engineers who drive the trains and the New Jersey Transit, who runs the trains, could not
come to an agreement on a new contract. And the agreement really is stalled because of pay. You have the engineers who say that they want to be making
what their counterparts are making on other train lines, like Amtrak and Metro-North. They say that they are paid well below that.
Amtrak saying they simply cannot meet those demands. Otherwise, New Jersey Transit would go bankrupt.
I want to bring in Chezzie Edwards. He has been with New Jersey Transit for 28 years. You've been an engineer driving these trains for 26 years. You've
been through several negotiations.
How is this one different, Chezzie?
CHEZZIE EDWARDS, LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER, NJ TRANSIT: This is a little different because it's -- it's going on six years. And you know --
YURKEVICH: Six years since you've had a raise?
EDWARDS: Yes, a contract. And, you know, with the cost of living and, you know, with every -- you know, with everything going up, you know, this --
this is definitely different. And we were under the impression that we could probably come to, you know, a nice fair deal this time around, but
unfortunately -- unfortunately, it didn't happen.
So we're still hopeful that -- that we're going to come to a resolution because we don't want to do this. You know, this is now that -- we -- we --
you know, we didn't really ask for this but --
YURKEVICH: You don't want to be on strike right now?
EDWARDS: We don't want to be on strike because I've been doing this a while. You know, I take pride in what I do. My commuters, they're so used
to seeing me on the platforms every day, you know. And today, it didn't happen.
YURKEVICH: Did you miss them this morning?
EDWARDS: Yes. I missed -- I missed them dearly this morning. I missed them dearly this morning.
YURKEVICH: So for folks at home watching, an engineer, a locomotive engineer is -- is the person, yourself, who actually drives the train every
day.
How important is your role to New Jersey Transit and to keeping commuters safe?
EDWARDS: Yes. Well, my role is very, very important because, first and foremost, I have so many lives in my hands, you know. And I do take pride
in what I do.
And the fact that, like for example, my shift that -- that I work, it's like in the morning -- the morning, 7:00, seven o'clock to about nine
o'clock, that's where everybody pretty much --
YURKEVICH: That is rush hour.
EDWARDS: That's a rush hour. That's when everybody's doing the work. And, you know, with congestion pricing, you know, they need the trains. It's the
quickest way to get into New York City. And it's the quickest way to get into New York City.
And, you know, to have, you know, people being stranded, you know, today because we weren't able to get a fair deal. You know, I feel bad about it
because my -- you know, like I said, my -- my commuters, they see me every day, you know, and they're used to seeing me on time.
But, you know, we are confident that we're going to probably come -- we're going to get a -- a deal done soon.
YURKEVICH: Thank you so much, Chezzie.
EDWARDS: Appreciate it.
YURKEVICH: We're actually just hanging back a little bit because it started raining. You have several other engineers that have been out here since
early this morning, Bianna.
New Jersey Transit making contingency plans, trying to bring in buses and ferries and light rails in order to move commuters who rely on this rail
service. But it is not enough to make up for the losses in trains that are not moving right now.
[12:25:14]
Also worth noting that this weekend is a big Shakira concert at MetLife Stadium, 30 minutes away in New Jersey. No train service going there. And
Beyonce is in town. Next weekend, a lot of people relying on transportation to get to and from that stadium safely. If this drags on into next week,
obviously, those people will have a harder time getting to and from that concert.
But both sides, the union and New Jersey Transit saying that they're hoping to get back to the table as soon as possible. Sunday is the day that
they've been targeting, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Let's not forget a big basketball game. A game six in the playoffs between the Knicks and the Celtics happening right where you're
standing later on tonight as well, expected to draw a big crowd.
Vanessa Yurkevich, you'll continue to cover this for us. Thank you.
Well, as we mentioned earlier, Cassie Ventura is back on the witness stand for a fourth straight day and Sean "Diddy" Combs racketeering and sex
trafficking trials.
CNN legal analyst Jennifer Rodgers is back with me now. Hopefully, we've got our connection all worked out, Jennifer.
So the defense essentially was trying to poke holes in some of Ventura's testimony from earlier by going through text messages and emails between
Ventura and Combs over the years. Were they successful in doing that?
RODGERS: I think they did a pretty good job of some of it. They definitely picked up some facts that they'll use in their summation to weave together
their side of the story that this was all voluntary, her participation in the Freak Off sex parties, the relationship itself for about a decade. So
in that sense, I think they've done well.
The problem is Cassie Ventura is the key critical witness here. They really have to undermine her significantly. And I don't think that they've really
had a devastating blow as to her credibility. So kind of in the smaller things, I think they've been successful. In the bigger picture, not yet,
unless a surprise is coming.
And you never know. Sean Combs knows her quite well for a long time. He may know things about her that her lawyers don't and the prosecutors don't. So
we still may have more coming. But absent that, I would say that they really have it done.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Jennifer Rodgers, thanks so much.
And we'll be right back with more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:30:02]
GOLODRYGA: Welcome back to "ONE WORLD." I'm Bianna Golodryga.
As we mentioned earlier, Donald Trump is now on Air Force One heading back to Washington, D.C. after his trip to the Middle East. He celebrated
several deals that he struck to boost international investment in the U.S., but he also had a stunning admission today about his tariff plans.
He said the U.S. simply does not have time to negotiate individual trade deals with all the countries who want one.
As a result, Trump says the U.S. will be sending letters to most countries dictating what tariffs they will face.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have, at the same time, 150 countries that want to make a deal, but you're not able to see that many countries at a certain point over the
next two to three weeks. I think Scott and Howard will be sending letters out, essentially telling people.
It would be very fair, but we'll be telling people what they'll be paying to do business in the United States.
It's not possible to meet the number of people that want to see us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Joining me now to talk about Trump's overall trip to the Gulf is CNN's Fareed Zakaria. Fareed, it's so good to see you.
So this has been a week where the president, at least on paper, has secured hundreds of billions of deals, if not a trillion dollars. He met with the
new leader of Syria, the first time that's happened with the U.S. President in 25 years and also surprised everyone by lifting sanctions on the
country.
And then he suggest that there has been intense progress made on the Iran nuclear talk, saying that they even have a copy of the proposal. Now the
Iranian Foreign Minister is disputing that claim.
But the -- the Qatari airplane, Air Force One gift aside, and the controversy surrounding that, in your view, was this ultimately a
successful trip for the president?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: Yes. I think it was a very successful trip. I think you have to be honest.
Look, the Gulf has become incredibly important because of the extraordinary amounts of capital that sit there. Much of the oil that they sell, they
sell to China. So it's been very important to keep it in the American cap. And I think Trump does that.
He has a natural affinity to these people because, to be honest, I mean, I think he likes dictators and monarchs because they can make decisions
quickly. He likes money. There's a lot of money there.
But he -- he -- he reversed the sanctions on -- on Syria. And that's a good example of Trump being disruptive and thinking out of the box in a positive
way, because this would have taken years of reviews and committee meetings before they would have actually lifted them.
Trump has done it, you know, very expeditiously. And I think it's probably the right decision to at least give the new regime a chance. He's trying to
make a deal on Iran. Again, there's enormous inertia and bureaucracy and politics in Washington that tries to stop it. And the fact that he's
willing to think out of the box is good.
The -- the -- you know, in the bad side, the shooting from the hip and, you know, disruption for the sake of disruption. Of course, the tariffs, as you
said, you let the -- the -- the segment with.
You know, he's created this crazy problem for himself. You know, he makes it out like the problem is all these countries are clamoring to do business
with the United States.
Now, the problem is that Trump unilaterally announced tariffs on 195 countries, which make no sense whatsoever. The calculations are based on
absurdities. And now that countries are trying to figure out how they deal with it, the -- the administration is admitting they don't have a rational
formula that they can use, so they're going to come up with some new arbitrary formula for it.
So there you see Trump's disruption shooting from the hip, lack of preparedness, you know, causing a huge amount of problems. So it is mixed
because of that, the tariff reality, but the trip on the whole was successful.
GOLODRYGA: And the -- the clock is ticking on the 90-day pause, both on -- on the universal reciprocal tariffs and on the China tariffs, the former
expiring, I believe, in early July.
[12:35:06]
And the fact that we only have one specific deal on the table, and that's been announced between the United States and the U.K., and as you note,
there's just not enough time to get deals with 150 countries, as the president said today, does this offer an opportunity to China, which has
been trying to showcase itself as a more reliable, dependable trading partner?
We know that's been one of the priorities. And the president's trip to the Gulf is to wean those nations away from what has been a burgeoning
relationship with China over the last few years. Has this played to China's advantage thus far?
ZAKARIA: Without any question, it has. Look, the American economy is much, much more productive than the Chinese economy. America is a much better
place to do business. It's a -- it's a much more advanced economy.
But you've -- you've thrown in this layer of uncertainty about American policy, whereas the Chinese are much more predictable, much more stable.
If you're a CEO trying to decide where to locate a factory, how to source your goods, you need to have a sense of what things are going to look like
for the next 5, 10 years, right, where if you're building a factory.
At this point, how could you make a decision? You don't know what the tariffs on China are going to end up being. You don't know what they'll be
on India. So, should you move your production there? Or what if the tariffs on India are as high as they are in -- on China?
Should you move them to Vietnam? What if the tariffs are going to be there? Nobody knows, and that uncertainty is bad for business.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And it came at a time, perhaps even a gift to China that's been dealing with its own economic slowdown and challenges domestically in
terms of an aging population, a housing crisis.
Let me pick up, if I can, on something that you noted, and that is President Trump's familiarity and his affinity for these Gulf leaders, for
monarchs, because the "Wall Street Journal" has a piece about just that and contrasting it with it -- with his at-time strained relationships with
traditional U.S. allies, namely European allies.
The headline of this piece is he calls them handsome, attractive, tough, Trump's romance with Arab leaders. And it lists some of the praise that
he's thrown at Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, I like you too much. To the Syrian president he described as attractive and tough. And to Mohammed
bin Zayed, the president of the UAE, he said you're a magnificent man.
And that really reminded me of the conversation that Steve Witkoff had with Tucker Carlson a --a few weeks ago, where he basically suggested that the
Gulf was the -- the future of investment, AI. All that we're seeing now, all these deals taking place, whereas he described Europe as dysfunctional
and dying.
What is this signal to you about the president's view on the world and his foreign policy priorities?
ZAKARIA: Well, part of it is that Trump is a businessman and he -- he loves the idea of these very, very rich countries, but really very, very rich
families. These are -- these are, you know, essentially families that own the countries, easy to do business with, accommodating.
You don't have to worry about parliaments, courts, any of that. I think Trump, you know, warms to all of that. And he finds Europe messy,
complicated. You know, Merkel and her memoirs talks about who's constantly trying to strike a separate deal with Germany. And she would have to
patiently explain to him that, no, you have to deal with the European Union because that's a collective decision we've made.
So, you know, it -- and it's funny how he -- you know, Trump is such a great salesman that when he likes somebody, he starts to describe them as,
you know, handsome and winning and things like that. Words he's never used for say Justin Trudeau or -- or Keir Starmer or any of these people. It's -
- it's, you know, he -- he goes all in on what he -- he likes.
What's striking about it is, you know, he said it at the Gulf, essentially my foreign policy doctrine is, I don't believe in interfering in the
internal affairs of other countries. And he's saying this to a bunch of absolute monarchies who are loving hearing that.
Of course, he does constantly intervene in the internal affairs of countries. He's constantly telling the British how they should be handling
free speech issues.
The -- Vice President Vance is telling the Germans that they should be recognizing the AFG and incorporating it in the coalitions. He's telling
the Canadians what to do.
So actually, Trump believes in lots of interference, almost all in democracies and in non-interference in autocracies.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Important that you picked up on that, Fareed. Really good to have you on. Thank you so much for taking the time and we'll be sure to
tune in Sunday to Fareed Zakaria GPS as always. Thank you so much for joining us.
[12:40:04]
Well, former FBI Director, James Comey, is now under investigation for an Instagram post after Republicans claimed that it was a threat against
President Trump.
The post, which Comey has since deleted, shows seashells arranged to read 86-47. Now, the number 86 can refer to getting rid of or tossing something
out. Trump is the 47th president. The conservative uproar was swift.
Donald Trump Jr. posting, just James Comey casually calling for my dad to be murdered. This is who the Dem media worships.
Comey, a vocal Trump critic, denied the picture was a call for violence. He explained in another post that he saw the shells while walking on the beach
and thought it was, quote, a political message, adding, quote, I didn't realize some folks associate those numbers with violence.
Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem said DHS and Secret Service are investigating. And the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard,
said this last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Do you believe Comey should be in jail?
TULSI GABBARD, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I do. Any other person with the position of influence that he has, people who take very seriously
what a -- the -- with a guy of his stature, his experience, and what the propaganda media has built him up to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: And still to come for us, we have a live report from Moscow after direct peace talks between Ukraine and Russia wrap up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Let's return now to our top story this hour. We are hearing more details from those peace talks between Russia and Ukraine and Istanbul
Friday. The head of Russia's delegation says discussions will continue and that each side will present its vision of a possible future ceasefire.
Turkey's Foreign Minister says talks mark, quote, an important day for world peace.
Time now for "The Exchange." Joining me is Oleksiy Goncharenko, a member of the Ukrainian Parliament. He is joining us live from Kyiv.
Oleksiy, I'm wondering how you feel about the fact that President Zelenskyy lived up to his pledge to come to these meetings in good faith in Turkey.
President Putin did not. And when asked why and how he responds, President Trump says, oh, it -- it's just that President Putin wants a face-to-face
meeting with me. Your reaction to that.
[12:45:02]
OLEKSIY GONCHARENKO, UKRAINIAN MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: My reaction is very simple. Absolutely predictable result. Russia doesn't want any peace. They
just try to win time. They're playing games with the United States, with President Trump, to just showing some kind of a goodwill.
Good result from these negotiations is exchange of prisoners of war, 1,000 for 1,000. Here's -- this is about destinies of people, but really no
result if we are speaking about end of the war and ceasefire. No result at all.
Russian delegation was just making some historical lectures. I can give you details from my sources and claiming that they want to have even more
territories that they control now. So really no result. No deadlines now. Nobody knows what will be next. So Russia is just playing games and trying
win -- to win the time. That's it.
GOLODRYGA: Again, President Trump didn't go into details, but he did seem to suggest that it is another summit, perhaps an in-person meeting between
President Putin and President Trump that will lead to this war coming to an end or at least a ceasefire.
How would Ukraine, how would President Zelensky, how would you respond to the possibility of a meeting just between those two leaders that would
exclude President Zelenskyy?
GONCHARENKO: President Trump can have any meetings he wants to. It's absolutely his right. But if I may, I will give advice to President Trump.
His meeting with Putin, I am afraid, will not give much if before Putin will not be showed that he will have big problems if he will not stop the
war.
And he does not believe the words. Because there are a lot of words from European leaders. There is a quote from President Trump who said, I will
finish the war in 24 hours. Now, it's more than 100 days. Putin thinks that Western leaders are weak and they are just talking. That's it.
And when he thinks so, there will be no result. There is no difference. They are meeting with his delegation or with him personally. There will be
no result before he will realize that if he will not stop the war, there will be really putting -- the pressure will be put on him. Real pressure.
Real tough sanctions. That's it.
He understands only the language of force. He is the bully. He is a predator. He's aggressor. And he will go as far as he will be allowed to
go.
GOLODRYGA: Why do you think then that President Trump hasn't gone further? The most, I think he's threatened, is additional sanctions on a social
media post. But publicly, he hasn't said that and he hasn't implemented any of those threats yet.
GONCHARENKO: I think he -- he believes that Putin is adequate and Russia is suffering from the war and that's why Putin will be really -- will have --
will have a goodwill that Putin wants to end the war, but it's -- it's not.
And I -- I think now, President Trump has all evidences that Putin just doesn't want to have peace. So it's the time to put pressure on Putin. It's
not the time to meet with him in person. Again, it's my personal view. It's the time to show to Putin that President Trump is really serious.
Secondary sanctions against countries which buy Russian oil, sanctions against Russian shadow fleet, and want more weapons to Ukraine. That will
convince Putin that President Trump is really serious when he wants peace.
And after this, there is a real chance for negotiations, maybe one on one on all three leaders together, that doesn't matter.
GOLODRYGA: How long will you consistently be offering this advice to President Trump without him implementing it?
I mean, it's pretty clear that President Putin is just stalling, trying to buy time. President Trump isn't naive. I would imagine he's seeing this.
He's suggested as much anyway.
The fact that he hasn't gone to these measures doesn't worry you that he may in fact lose interest in trying to negotiate a ceasefire here and
perhaps even provide aid and assistance. Because President Zelenskyy, even today, said that U.S. support is essential and American backstop is needed.
GONCHARENKO: Absolutely. It worries me a lot. But all I can do is just to address President Trump because I can't -- I can't do anything else and
Ukraine too. Ukraine did everything what President Trump wanted us to do. We signed a mineral deal. We can agree for a complete ceasefire right now.
We're -- we agreed to negotiations without any preconditions. We agreed to any level of negotiations. So we did everything.
I don't know how else we can convince President Trump that Ukraine has a goodwill for peace. And the only obstacle to peace is just President Putin
and Russia. That's it.
[12:50:03]
So we -- we can just repeat it and repeat and repeat again. But the question is that not just Putin or Ukraine are watching, the whole world is
watching. And what is the feeling of many leaders, why we should care about what the United States say or think if they are not acting. That is a very
threatening thing. And that is a very dangerous thing because we need leadership of the United States.
But with such countries as Russia, with such dictators, and there are unfortunately a lot of them in the world, they understand only actions. So
I hope President Trump will turn to actions now because his goodwill to peace is not shared by Putin. And now it's clear to absolutely everybody.
GOLODRYGA: Oleksiy Goncharenko, thank you so much for the time. We appreciate it.
GONCHARENKO: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: The top golfers are playing round two of the PGA Championship today and hoping they can do much better than they did in round one. World
Sport's Patrick Snell is live at the course.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: The second round is underway at golf's second major of the year. The best golfers hit the links for the PGA championship being held at the
Quail Hollow Club in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Fans were excited to see Rory McIlroy in round one after his huge win at the Masters and achieving the career grand slam.
Let's go live to our World Sports, Patrick Snell, who is at the Quail Hollow Club in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Patrick, what can we expect to see?
PATRICK SNELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Hi, Bianna. Yes. Welcome to Quail Hollow here. I've got to keep my voice down because there's some elite players
behind me on the putting green fine shooting their games ahead of their second round, including none other than Rory McIlroy and Scottie Scheffler,
as well as Xander Schauffele, as they try and get their bid for the title on track.
But let's talk about Jhonattan Vegas. A remarkable story. A 40-year-old from Venezuela who's already made plenty, plenty of history seeks to become
the first man to win a men's golf major. What a story that would be at 40 years of age as well.
But he's already made history because he's already won on the PGA Tour. He's actually a four-time winner. So he has wonderful winning pedigree, but
he's never had a top 20 finish, I will say, in a major. So that's something.
He's doing very nicely. He's out on the course right now. And there's no sign of him giving anything back. He's currently at nine under par and
looking really, really good. So his message to the rest of the field is, catch me if you can.
[12:55:10]
And among those players trying to do just that a certain Rory McIlroy who I mentioned. He recently became the sixth man in history doing the coveted
Grand Slam. That's when a golfer wins all the majors during your -- during a career. And he's done that in remarkable fashion recently at Augusta
National.
He arrived here with massive expectations. But by his, and I'll stress that again, Bianna, by his very high standards. It wasn't the best of first
rounds for him on Thursday. He shot a three over par 74.
But here's why you should never ever discount Rory McIlroy when it comes to this particular course. I tell you what. He's won on it already four times
during his story career going back to 2010 when he was a -- a wee young lad.
He's trying to win it for a fifth time. He's trying to become a five-time winner on this famous course. And he's going to have to improve greatly if
he's to achieve that.
Right back to you.
GOLODRYGA: All right. We'll be watching. Patrick Snell, thank you so much.
And that does it for this hour of "ONE WORLD." I'm Bianna Golodryga. Thanks so much for watching. "AMANPOUR" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
