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One World with Zain Asher
Mass Starvation, Illness And Suffering Spread Across Gaza; Trump Heads To Scotland As Epstein Case Swirls In U.S.; Soon: Deputy Attorney General Meets Ghislaine Maxwell For Second Day; Stories Emerge From Detainees Inside "Alligator Alcatraz"; Thailand-Cambodia Border Clashes Rage For Second Day; Family Breaks Silence About Soldier In Russian Captivity; Chinese Coffee Brand Sees U.S. Market Boom; First Responders Risk Their Lives After Fertility Clinic Bombing; Aired 12-1p ET
Aired July 25, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:37]
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN ANCHOR: Live from London, I'm Eleni Giokos. I'm in for Zain and Bianna. You're watching "One World."
A ceasefire talks in the Middle East are at a standstill at this hour. The U.S. and Israel withdrew their teams from negotiations in Qatar. The U.S.
special envoy says Hamas clearly shows a lack of desire to reach a truce. Something Hamas denies.
U.S. President Trump believes the group doesn't want to make a deal. Take a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They pulled out of Gaza. They pulled out in terms of negotiating. It was too bad. Hamas -- Hamas didn't
really want to make a deal. I think they want to die. And it's very, very bad.
And it got -- it got to be to a point where you're going to have to finish your job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: Well, Israel says it will allow air drops of badly needed aid into Gaza in the coming days. Jordan and the UAE will conduct the drops. It
can't come soon enough.
Gaza's health ministry, they say, dozens have died from starvation and malnutrition just this week. The U.N. says it's running out of food made to
treat malnutrition in children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FARHAN HAQ, DEPUTY SPOKESPERSON, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: More than one million children are bearing the brunt of deepening starvation and
malnutrition with reports of death from malnutrition increasing by the day.
According to our partners working in nutrition, in the first two weeks of July, nearly 5,000 of the 56,000 children under the age of five who were
screened for malnutrition in the Gaza, Deir al-Balah and Khan Yunis Governorate were found to be acutely malnourished.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: After months of warnings from aid agencies about a starvation crisis, the worst-case scenario appears to be unfolding.
CNN's Jeremy Diamond takes a closer look at the story for us, but I want to warn you that his report has disturbing and graphic images.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There are no bullet holes or shrapnel wounds marking this man's body. His bears the
signs of a far more silent killer, starvation.
At 41 years old, Mohammed al Hassanat (ph) is one of at least 45 Palestinians who have died of malnutrition in just the last week, according
to the Palestinian Health Ministry, an entirely manmade humanitarian crisis in Gaza now reaching unprecedented levels.
The question now is not whether starvation will claim more lives, but who will be its next victim. Most food stocks have run dry. Malnutrition cases
are skyrocketing, and there is only so much Gaza's under-resourced hospitals can do.
At one of the few soup kitchens still serving meals, the growing desperation of Gaza's population of more than two million is clear as day.
Twenty-eight Western nations, more than 100 humanitarian aid organizations, and top U.N. officials have all said Israeli policies are to blame for the
starvation crisis now unfolding. That's because Israel imposed a total siege of Gaza between March and May. And since then, Israeli restrictions
on the entry and distribution of aid have snowballed into an utterly avoidable disaster.
DR. TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, WHO DIRECTOR-GENERAL: I don't know what you would call it other than mass starvation, and it's manmade. And that's very
clear. And this is because of blockade.
DIAMOND: Israel denies it is using starvation as a weapon, pointing to hundreds of aid trucks inside Gaza awaiting U.N. pickup. The U.N. says
Israeli authorities have repeatedly failed to authorize safe routes to pick up those stockpiles.
But the reality of starvation is impossible to deny, including four Israeli news channels, which rarely broadcast such images.
Fadia Abu Namuz (ph) has been in line since 6:00 A.M., hoping to fill a pot of lentil soup to feed the nine members of her family.
"We've had enough of starvation and oppression, enough of staying in the streets like dogs where no one looks at us, where we can't find anything
for our children to eat or drink."
Signs of hunger are everywhere in Gaza. This man collapsed while sifting through the wreckage of the latest Israeli offensive. He says he hasn't
eaten anything lately but scraps of bread.
[12:05:01]
Moments later, his body gives out on him again. He is simply too weak to go on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: Right now, U.S. President Donald Trump is on his way to Scotland. His five-day visit will be a mix of both official, as well as personal
commitments, including visits to his golf courses, including the opening of a new one.
Trump is also expected to meet with the British Prime Minister. And he'll likely be greeted by protesters in Scotland who say they'll mount a wave of
resistance against him during planned demonstrations on Saturday.
Meanwhile, reactions to the President's visit are mixed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA ACQUROFF, GLASGOW RESIDENT: I don't think many Scottish people would feel he's welcome. I think it's an embarrassment that he is coming here at
all, personally.
KEITH BEAN, GLASGOW RESIDENT: He's investing in Scotland, so, yes, why not? Why not? We don't -- what he does over in his island, fine. When he comes
to our island, he's fine with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: All right. Jeff Zeleny is following the President's visit to Scotland for us, from Edinburgh. Great to have you with us.
I mean, I want to know what the atmosphere is like ahead of President Trump's visit. But importantly, this is going to be a mixture of going to
golf courses, a bit of trade talk as well. Tell me about the agenda and what we're expecting.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, as President Trump makes his way here to Scotland, the land of his mother's
ancestors, he's not being greeted necessarily with a warm welcome.
Just a quick look at the front page of "The National" newspaper, obviously a liberal-leaning newspaper, certainly not rolling out the red carpet,
saying "Convicted U.S. Felon To Arrive In Scotland." Of course, that would be the U.S. President.
But, look, by and large, President Trump is not going to be here at Edinburgh or in Glasgow. He is going to be in his golf courses in Trump
Turnberry for three nights. And that is, of course, on the western coast of Scotland. And then going up to another one of his golf courses in the north
in -- in Aberdeen.
Largely, this is a golfing weekend. President Trump, of course, spends most of his weekends on one of his golf courses back in the United States. He's
going to be doing it here in Scotland, but also meeting, as you said, with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer on Monday.
And there are some trade talks that he will be doing there, as well as, of course, many other issues, the Ukraine War, the -- the continued U.S.
funding for that, as well as, of course, the deepening humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
So many challenges hanging over this -- this trip. But to be honest, the first order of business is playing golf. And the President is scheduled to
do that throughout the weekend on his courses.
GIOKOS: Yes. Seems like that is the priority on the agenda. Really fascinating.
I just want to talk about the pressing issues, like you mentioned, and meeting with Keir Starmer, trade talks, striking up deals with the E.U.,
working with the U.K. Where are we with that and the decisions that President Trump needs to make?
ZELENY: Well, look, the decision, so there has been the outlines of a -- a tariff agreement reached with the British Prime Minister some weeks ago, so
there could be a finalization of that. There, of course, are many details to be worked out on steel manufacturing among those.
But this is not likely to be, even though it's a bilateral meeting, all sides are sort of lowering expectations for any type of big agreements to
come from this. This is being described as a prelude to the official state visit for the U.S. President in the United Kingdom. And that comes in
September when he is going to come back for a meeting, an official greeting, an official state visit that King Charles has invited Donald
Trump to.
So that is where perhaps more of the business will be done, if you will. But there will be that meeting on Monday.
But I think Ukraine, that is one thing. And as we talk to British officials, certainly are heartened by Donald Trump's recent support for
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He, of course, has put a Russian President Vladimir Putin on a notice, wanting the bombing to stop there, so
we will see if there are any more discussions on that on Monday.
But again, a lot of golf between now and Monday evening when Donald Trump is scheduled to meet with Keir Starmer at the Trump Turnberry, of course,
here in Scotland.
GIOKOS: All right. Jeff Zeleny, great to have you with us. Enjoy Edinburgh.
While Donald Trump is heading to Scotland, his former lawyer is spending a second day talking to long-time Jeffrey Epstein associate Ghislaine
Maxwell. Todd Blanche is now the Deputy U.S. Attorney General, the second highest person at the Department of Justice.
It is unprecedented for someone like that to conduct what amounts to a jailhouse interview with a convicted felon like Maxwell. She is currently
serving 20 years for conspiring with Epstein in a sex trafficking operation after referring to Maxwell as a scapegoat. Her attorney says they are
looking forward to another day of talks.
[12:10:15]
DAVID MARKUS, ATTORNEY FOR GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ghislaine has been treated unfairly for over five years now. If you looked up scapegoat in the
dictionary, her face would be next to the definition -- next to the dictionary definition of it.
So, you know, we are grateful for this opportunity to finally be able to say what really happens and that's what we're going to do yesterday and
today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: All right. President Trump was asked about a possible pardon for Maxwell a short time ago, as he was leaving the White House. And he said he
has not really thought about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't know exactly what's happening but I -- I certainly can't talk about pardons now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you trust -- can you trust what she's telling him? She's a convicted trafficker who's eager to get out of prison.
TRUMP: Well, you know, he's a professional lawyer. I think he -- he's been through things like this before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: All right. With more on all of this, I want to bring in our chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid. Great to have you with us.
Everyone is watching the Ghislaine Maxwell story very closely. Asking the question, is she a credible witness? You know, what kind of information
will come through it? And, of course, what is she being asked? Could you give us the latest on how consequential this is?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It could potentially be consequential, but I think you're leading with the exact right thing which
are the questions about why she should be believed. This is a convicted sex trafficker who is always kind of painted herself as a victim while
simultaneously victims of Jeffrey Epstein have described her as a, quote, predator.
This is someone who is credibility has been called into question in the past. So even if she was to present something of note to the Justice
Department, the first question is going to be, why would you believe her? Can she corroborate this?
And there's also this -- this really fraught idea of making a deal or somehow rewarding someone who, as I said, is a convicted sex trafficker
when a lot of the larger concern around the Epstein investigation comes from people who are worried that -- that predators and sex traffickers and
those who may have abused, those teenage girls are somehow being protected or were led off the hook even though that is what the Justice Department
says is not happening, because they say they don't have enough evidence to charge anyone else.
So, it's unclear what if anything she's being asked to provide, what if anything she can provide. But even if she does have something, the Justice
Department, the administration, they're going to face a lot of tough questions about why they would go to her now after all these years. And why
she is to be believed.
I think this is something that is pretty fraught for the administration which is likely why they sent the Deputy Attorney Genera, not usually the
person who would do this kind of interview because he is a very trusted adviser and lawyer for the president who has a track record of protecting
his interests.
GIOKOS: All right. Paula Reid, great to have you with us. Thank you so much.
Well, Democrats are calling for the full release of the Jeffrey Epstein files. Democratic strategist Julie Roginsky joins me now from New York and
the party's next steps. Julie, great to have you with us.
I mean, this is a really fascinating time because I think a lot of people have been asking, you know, where the Democrats stand, what power they
yield, how do they fight back. And this is really an interesting time with President Trump's name being mentioned in the Jeffrey Epstein files.
Could you break down for us how the Democrats are perceiving this from a strategic perspective?
JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, strategically and morally is kind of equivalent right now for change in politics which is that if you
want to get to the bottom of what happened, if you want to find out whom these girls who are now women were trafficked to, we need to see all the
files.
And by all the files, it means not just what Todd Blanche wants us to see, not just what Pam Bondi wants us to see, not just what the president wants
us to see, which is apparently nothing, since they said they're shutting down all discussion of this going forward, but all of it.
It's exactly what the president promised. It's exactly what Pam Bondi promised. It's what Kash Patel, the -- the head of the FBI and Dan Bongino,
his deputy promised, Donald Trump Jr. promised it and so on.
And so when you have consistent promises being made to the American people in advance of this election about what was going to be shown to them if
Donald Trump got in and suddenly now the president is saying there's nothing to see here, that -- that smells a little bit. And I think that is
not something it's just the Democrats believe, it's what everybody believes.
GIOKOS: Yes. And it's a -- it's very big U-turn, and as you said it was one of those hot button issues, the Trump administration shifting very
dramatically.
I think what people are asking is, you know, why? Why don't you release it so we can see?
Do you think Democrats see this as an opportunity to assert, you know, sort of their agenda and the entire political landscape?
ROGINSKY: You know, there's the politics of this, but there's also, as I said, before the morality of this. And I have a -- I have a -- a column in
"Time Magazine" today actually talking about this.
Nobody's talking about the cost of this to the young women who were trafficked. Nobody's talking about what those girls, now women, went
through. And nobody's creating a safe space for them to feel like they can come forward and not be threatened and not be maligned for telling the
truth.
[12:15:07]
Certainly they know who they were trafficked to. And certainly, they understand that some of these were very high-profile men who even then were
very high-profile ostensibly and who they can probably name if they felt comfortable doing that.
But when this has become so politicized that these women feel like they are afraid, not just for their safety but potentially even for their lives,
we've got to ask ourselves as a society what that means for other survivors who want to come forward.
And look, I understand that there's the politics of this and both sides are smelling blood in the water now and understandably especially on the
democratic side. This is a big political thing that the president has clearly not known and figured out how to respond to.
But there's also the -- the larger aspect of this that I hope both parties really pay strong attention to which is that this is not just about Jeffrey
Epstein. This is also about survivors who are not political at all who deserve to have the space and the freedom and the safety to be able to tell
the stories of what happened to them, if they so choose and not feel like they're political footballs or not feel like they have to worry about their
own safety in order to do that.
GIOKOS: And -- and to your point, you know, a big focus should still remain on the victims. You know, but taking a step back here and because President
Trump has been referred to as the Teflon presidents in the past, you know, I think that his party, everyone wants to see this -- this issue go away.
I'm -- I'm kind of curious from a legal perspective, from a political perspective, what kind of options do the Democrats and even people from
within the Republican Party have to fight this. Because I think that both people from both sides of the aisle are curious to -- to know and make
these -- these files public.
ROGINSKY: Well, first of all, there's the court of law and then there's the court of public opinion. And the court of public opinion is really where
Democrats, and -- and also Republicans who I think truly want to see justice done for these victims. That's where they really have the freedom
to operate in ways that maybe they can't in a court of law.
Look, you have had Republicans for a decade from the president on down talking about how we need to expose everything that Jeffrey Epstein,
Ghislaine Maxwell and their unnamed co-conspirators have done to these girls.
And the truth of the matter is that all of a sudden now that Donald Trump has decided he wants to shut this down for reasons that we can only guess
at, suddenly a big chunk of the Republican Party wants to move on and say that there's nothing to see here and are trying to rehabilitate Ghislaine
Maxwell.
I mean, it's just unbelievable to me that the president's personal lawyer, the man who served as the president's criminal defense lawyer who now is
the number two of the Justice Department, is spending two days meeting with the woman who, until just a few weeks ago, was universally acknowledged as
the right hand woman to a pedophile, a woman who herself has been convicted of trafficking young girls for sex.
And ultimately, when you have something like that happen and all of a sudden you have the president saying even earlier, oh, well, you know, I
wish her only the best and suddenly the entire Republican Party for all intents and purposes falling in behind him.
Well, if you have been a supporter of Donald Trump, and you have been told for a decade that she and everybody else, regardless of who those everybody
else may be, would be held to account when Donald Trump came back into power. And suddenly in the first six months you've had this kind of
whiplash, what does that tell you about anything that this president has said to you before about any subject? Never mind something as serious as
trafficking young girls to middle age and older adult men.
Julie Roginsky, great to have you with us. Thank you so much --
ROGINSKY: Thank you so much.
GIOKOS: -- for those -- those insights.
All right. It's no secret that President Trump and the U.S. Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, don't see eye to eye. But on Thursday, their feud
spilled out in front of the cameras.
While the pair toured ongoing renovations at the Central Bank building, Mr. Trump claimed the budget for the work had gone up to $3.1 billion, hundreds
of millions more than the Fed said it would cost. Listen to the awkward exchange that followed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It just came out.
JEROME POWELL, CHAIRMAN, U.S. FEDERAL RESERVE: Yes. And I haven't heard that from anybody to Fed.
TRUMP: It just came out.
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): I'm not excited about 3.1 as well.
TRUMP: 3.1.
SCOTT: 3.1, 3.2.
POWELL: This came from us?
TRUMP: Yes. I don't know who does there.
POWELL: Are you including the Martin renovation? You just added --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The entire capital.
POWELL: You just -- you just added in the third buildings with it. That's the third building.
TRUMP: Why not? But it's -- it's a building that's being built.
POWELL: No. It's been -- it was built five years ago. We finished Martin five years.
TRUMP: It was part of the overall work. So --
POWELL: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: Well, the President's tone at the end of the visit was very different. Backing away from threats to fire Powell, at least for now, and
insisting there was no tension between the two of them.
[12:20:06]
And it comes just ahead of the Fed's next rate setting meeting, which is scheduled for next week.
Well, coming up, inside Alligator Alcatraz. We'll tell you what goes on behind closed doors by bringing you the stories of the detainees at the
facility.
Plus, clashes erupt for a second day along the disputed border between Cambodia and Thailand, forcing thousands to flee their homes. The latest on
the rising tensions, also ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: America's latest coffee chain isn't from America.
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's from where I live. Luckin Coffee is from China.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: Well, despite the trade war, Chinese products are thriving in the United States. CNN is in both countries to find out why. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: Turning to the United States immigration now with the news that ICE has deported around 150,000 people since the start of Donald Trump's
presidency. That's just six months ago.
The number puts the administration on track to deport the highest number of people in more than a decade. ICE has been ramping up the immigration
crackdown since Trump came into power in an effort to meet the president's goal of one million deportations in a year.
Our stories are emerging from detainees and their families about what truly goes on behind closed doors at the so-called Alligator Alcatraz, now the
mixture facility in Florida.
Despite the controversy it's been facing, supporters of Mr. Trump's deportation policy are defending the facility, including Florida governor
Ron DeSantis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): It was never intended to be something where people are just held and -- and we just kind of twiddle our thumbs.
The whole purpose is to make this be a place that can facilitate increased frequency and numbers of deportations of illegal aliens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: Well, the question remains, what is it really like on the inside? CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has a report for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUAN PALMA MARTINEZ, ALLIGATOR ALCATRAZ DETAINEE (through translator): This is sad, sad, hopeless. It's a type of torture.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are the stories of migrants held at Alligator Alcatraz, a new detention facility deep in the
Florida Everglades.
Using a plan of the site shown during President Trump's visit and photos from media tours and social media, CNN created a 3D model to take you
inside the site, where hundreds of immigrant detainees are being held.
[12:25:07]
Here are the giant tents where people report being crammed into cells made of chain-link fence, packed with bunk beds.
CNN spoke with eight detainees to hear firsthand accounts of what conditions are like on the inside. Some asked not to be named for fear of
retribution.
GONZALO ALMANZA VALDES, ALLIGATOR ALCATRAZ DETAINEE: Because of the way that we have been treated, it has been a very terrible experience.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Gonzano Almanza Valdes was detained by ICE when he showed up for a meeting with his probation officer.
VALDES: Thirty-two people per cell or per cage, really, because it's a cage. It's a metal cage strapped in with zip ties.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Three open toilets are shared by dozens of men, who say there's no running water or sewage system.
Roger Moreno, who has lived in the U.S. for more than 30 years, told CNN the rain makes it worse.
ROGER MORENO, ALLIGATOR ALCATRAZ DETAINEE (through translator): The toilets, when it rains, they overflow and the cells we're in fill up with
sewage.
VALDES: Every time it does rain and storm, the toilets clog up.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Detainees told CNN the lights are kept on 24 hours a day.
VALDES: We can't see. I have to personally put a -- a rag on top of my head to -- to at least try to take a nap because the lights are so bright.
There's 24 LED lights in the roof and it's -- it's like shining bright.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Juan Palma Martinez has lived in the U.S. for more than 20 years and was also picked up by ICE at a routine meeting with his
probation officer.
JUAN PALMA MARTINEZ, ALLIGATOR ALCATRAZ DETAINEE (through translator): I no longer know when it's daytime or when it's nighttime. I don't sleep. It's
affecting me mentally and physically.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): The tents aren't sealed. You can see cracks in this image. And at the height of the hot Florida summer, that means the insects
are relentless.
MORENO (through translator): Yesterday, the air-conditioning went out. We had the whole morning without air-conditioning. Lots of mosquitoes came in
because they get in from all sides.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Multiple detainees said they don't get enough food, though they're served three meals a day and that water is limited.
VALDES: They scan our --our bracelets, we go into the food hall. The food is very terrible here. Very, very, very small portions People are having a
hard time living here because like they're starving. It's probably like a quarter cup of rice.
MARTINEZ (through translator): We've eaten as late as 10:00 at night. The food at night is cold, too. There's never a hot meal.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Showers are located in a separate tent. And opportunities to shower there are scarce, according to the detainees we
spoke with.
VALDES: All the showers are connected to the same water source. There's barely any water pressure. So we have to, like, literally put ourselves on
the wall right next to the water drainage so like we can at least get hit with water.
MARTINEZ (through translator): They follow you when you're walking to the shower with your hands on your head, as if you were a prisoner. The water
is very hot, very hot. They don't give you enough time. Mosquitoes are biting you in the shower. There are more mosquitoes than water.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): The only line to the outside world are phones set up in the cells.
VALDES: Nobody here has been able to see a loved one. Nobody has been able to see a lawyer here. Nobody. And it sucks. It sucks. There's no like
physical contact with the outside world other than these phone calls. It's not really more about me. It's about not being able to see my son. He's
six. He's about to turn seven in November. And I don't even know if I'm going to be able to see him in his birthday.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Republican and democratic lawmakers recently toured the facility. According to one of them, they were not permitted to speak to
the detainees.
Then-state senator Blaise Ingoglia, a Republican, said the facility is in good order.
BLAISE INGOGLIA, FORMER FLORIDA STATE SENATOR: It's actually a very well- run facility. The idea that the -- the detainees are in there and they're in squalid conditions is just not accurate.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): But most distressing for detainees, they say, was that in multiple cases, they haven't appeared in any state or federal
detention system since they were arrested. That means families have been unable to track them.
VALDES: We're in the middle of the Everglades with constant reminder that we're locked up in a cage and anything can happen. A hurricane can hit us
and we can all die and nobody would know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: All right. Coming up, the tensions soar between Cambodia and Thailand as deadly border fighting intensifies. The how and the why behind
the clashes, that's just coming up after this.
And later.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREG LYLE, PALM SPRINGS DEPUTY FIRE CHIEF: If we don't do something, then the bad guy wins.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They risk personal health and safety in life to bring hope to other people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: Earlier this year, a bombing rocked a fertility clinic in Palm Springs, California. The first responders risked their lives to prevent
further tragedy. That story later this hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:30:39]
GIOKOS: Welcome back to "One World." I'm Eleni Giokos.
Increased fighting along the Cambodia border has prompted Thailand to declare martial law in two provinces.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(EXPLOSION)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: This as second day of border clashes is underway. The violence forcing more than 130,000 people to flee their homes and killing more than
a dozen people.
The Thai military is calling for Cambodia to return to the negotiating table as a friendly nation. Now tensions between the Southeast Asian
neighbors have been boiling for months over disputed sections of the 800- kilometer land border, which is home to several religious sites both countries claim.
Those sites largely mapped out by France when it ruled Cambodia. This is what Cambodian officials have to say about the recent fighting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEN BONA, GOVERNMENT SPOKESPERSON, CAMBODIA (through translator): Thailand's attacks are aimed at taking Cambodian land, which is another
reason I think the international community, as well as the international court of justice, can clearly see the purpose of the royal government of
Cambodia in bringing this case to the court to solve. So surely Cambodia will come out ahead in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: Well, time now for "The Exchange." Joining me is Andreyka Natalegawa, an associate fellow for the Southeast Asia program at the
Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C. Great to have you with us.
[12:35:02]
It's an important time. I want to talk about the current state of hostilities and the risk of further escalation.
We are seeing calls to get back to the negotiating table. How would you describe the current state we're in?
ANDREYKA NATALEGAWA, ASSOCIATE FELLOW, SOUTHEAST ASIA PROGRAM, CSS: Well, we're in a very much a state of sort of tension as it relates to Thailand
and Cambodia. There's a statement earlier today from the acting prime minister of Thailand saying that if developments continued as they
currently are, this could lead to war.
And so we're certainly at an unprecedented time, I think, in relations between the two countries. We've seen periodic spades of border disputes
between the two, 2011, as a notable example, 2008 as well.
But this time around, as I understand it, this is the sort of most violent conflict between two Southeast Asian nations in at least a decade. And so
it's very much in flux the situation. And it's something that we're monitoring quite closely.
GIOKOS: Yes. I want to take a step back here, because I want you to explain this -- this long running dispute, which dates back, frankly, more than 100
years when the borders were drawn by France during the occupation of Cambodia.
And it kind of brings the issue of the legacy of colonization, of borders being drawn in places where it doesn't work for the people on the ground.
Having that knowledge and knowing that this is a legacy issue, what is your sense of the two countries coming together and looking at the religious
sites that are in dispute, the border that is in dispute and finding a solution?
NATALEGAWA: Right. And as you've noted, this has been a longstanding issue between Cambodia and Thailand and their bilateral relations, owing to sort
of the roots of the conflict given that the map that was drawn in, I believe, 1907, that was vague as it relates to some of the sites that --
that are in contention right now.
And -- and throughout the decades, we've seen tensions flare up between the two sides. In the 1960s, I believe the International Court of Justice
intervened in the issue. 2008 was also a landmark year when Cambodia attempted to register some of the temple sites as UNESCO World Heritage
locations leading to, again, an outbreak of border skirmishes between the two sides.
And so, you know, this has been a long-running conflict that -- that tends to flare up periodically between the two sides.
What I think is valuable here to recognize is that for the past few decades, both Thailand and Cambodia have been member states of the
Association of Southeast Asian Nations, or ASEAN, the sort of regional organization that, you know, I -- I think at its very core, is intended to
build trust and confidence and -- and personal rapport between the countries in Southeast Asia.
And so when -- when I'm looking at this current crisis, I see it in some ways as a litmus test for this organization, right? Is it -- is it able to
-- to bring Cambodia and Thailand together to find an amicable resolution for this crisis?
GIOKOS: And what it means regionally? We know that Beijing is watching very closely. You spoke about the ASEAN group as well. Give me a sense of how
regionally the impact is going to play out.
NATALEGAWA: Right. And so if you look at the regional response thus far, Prime Minister Ammar Ibrahim of Malaysia, who is also concurrently serving
as the chair of ASEAN this year, has already contacted his counterparts in both Thailand and Malaysia.
And, you know, my sense is that he will continue to try to play an active role in mediating the crisis. When you look across the region, other
similar regional responses, countries like the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, have issued statements through their respective ministries of
foreign affairs, expressing their concern about the crisis.
What I think here is interesting is -- is Indonesia's role. If you look back at 2011, during the crisis at the time, Indonesia was the ASEAN chair,
and played a very active role in mediating the peaceful resolution of that crisis involving monitors, fact-finding efforts as well.
And -- and fact-finding efforts being particularly valuable here, given that the two sides in this conflict, Thailand and Cambodia, each have quite
differing accounts of what happened on the ground on July 24th.
So that the importance of the role of independent, impartial fact-finding is of critical. That can't be understated.
GIOKOS: Yes. I mean, I'm so glad you mentioned that, because they are currently in a blamed game, finger-pointing cycle. So you need a mediator
to step in to try and sort of, you know, get them to see eye to eye at some point.
The Thai Prime Minister had warned that this could lead to war. And more importantly, this news is just coming in that the Thai army saying it will
consider using cluster munitions as necessary against military targets.
[12:40:02]
You've got over 100,000 people that are currently being displaced. You know, they -- these are hallmarks of -- of things potentially getting
worse.
How are you analyzing sort of the -- the appetites at this point to get both parties at the table, while we're seeing sort of threats of -- of
cluster munitions being in play?
NATALEGAWA: I think the most important thing to emphasize at this point in time is that war is something that neither of these countries can afford at
this point in time. And so every effort must be made to bring the crisis to a peaceful resolution.
We've seen statements over the past 24 hours regarding potential escalations in conflict. What I think I'd emphasize here is that when you
look back at the drivers of this current spate of violence, you know, you can look back at the May 28th incidents that -- that was shooting that
resulted in the death of one Cambodian soldier. You can look back at the landmine incident that occurred earlier this week that resulted in the
injury of five Thai soldiers.
You know, throughout this period of time, there's also been that sort of overlay of domestic politics within each country that have complicated
matters in terms of -- of -- of how each government is approaching the issue.
Again, I'd emphasize at this point that war and -- and sort of an escalation of conflict at this time would be -- would be unthinkable for --
for not even each country, but also for -- for the region.
And so it's incumbent on other partners in the region, including Malaysia, to really step forward and try to bring this to a peaceful close.
GIOKOS: So uphold serves no one. So I -- thank you so much for your insights. Great to have you with us, Andreyka --
NATALEGAWA: Thank you.
GIOKOS: Natalagawa.
All right. Now to Ukrainian military family breaking their silence about their son. He's a prisoner of war held by Russia for more than 10 -- more
than three years, rather. His family believes he faced a harsh treatment in captivity, but they didn't want to speak in public until now.
Rafael Romo has a story for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): We are not afraid to die on our land, in our city.
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was one of the last times they heard his voice before being captured. The Russians kept
shelling their last bastion mercilessly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): We keep fighting every day under heavy airstrikes.
ROMO (voice-over): By mid-May 2022, they had run out of ammunition, surrounded by the enemy, hungry and thirsty after a weeks-long siege.
Fewer than 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers were still holding a steel plant in the city of Mariupol, facing a stark choice, surrender or die.
By the end of May, they had all been captured, and according to a witness, 400 had died there.
ROMO: It's been more than three years, Lyudmyla, since your brother was captured. What would you like to tell us about him?
LYUDMYLA LEYVA GARSIYA, SISTER OF POW HELD BY RUSSIA: He's a brave man. He was one of those soldiers who was trying to defend Mariupol from Russian
occupation.
ROMO (voice-over): Sitting with her father and mother, Lyudmyla Leyva Garsiya says just about the only thing they know about her 27-year-old
brother, Juan Alberto, is that he's still alive.
ROMO: Do you know where he is and what condition he's in?
GARSIYA: It's really hard to get any information about prisoners of war who are hold in Russia. We could get some information from other exchanged
soldiers.
ROMO (voice-over): Recently released POWs have told the family that Juan Alberto, who was fighting for his native Mariupol, was first sent to
Olevnivka, in Ukraine's Russian-occupied Donetsk region, before being transferred to Luhansk, and finally to the Perma Krai Region in Russia.
ROMO: For the first time since the beginning of the war, the POW's family is speaking publicly. They are no longer afraid, they say, to speak about
what they consider gross violations of international law by Russia under the Geneva Conventions that say POWs must be treated humanely.
ROMO (voice-over): Conditions are terrible, his father says, based on what a recently released POW told him. The food is terrible. They're forced to
stand for 16 hours. They can't move. If they do, they're beaten up. They can't speak to each other.
Russia and Ukraine have agreed to prisoner swaps several times since the beginning of the war, including last September when malnourished but in
good spirits POWs returned home, including one who was unable to walk.
They didn't do anything wrong other than defending their country, their families and their homeland, the POW's mother says. That's the most
important thing the world has to understand about them.
The wait for this POW family has been agonizing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): We want to survive to save our people and to continue the fight for our country.
[12:45:04]
ROMO (voice-over): His father, a Cuban immigrant to Ukraine, says he hopes the captured soldier still remembers what he taught him as a little boy, a
phrase the young soldier would repeat when he was under siege in the Mariupol steel plant. Homeland and life.
Rafael Romo, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: Despite the ongoing trade war, Chinese brands are expanding across the United States. Luckin Coffee, Pop Mart and HEYTEA have all seen a major
boom. But what makes these brands so loved by Americans?
CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich and Marc Stewart investigate from two different continents. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YURKEVICH: America's latest coffee chain isn't from America.
STEWART: It's from where I live. Luckin coffee is from China.
YURKEVICH: Luckin just opened its first two locations right here in New York City. They are huge in China.
STEWART: Here in China, Luckin overtook Starbucks back in 2019. Right now, it has about 22,000 stores across the country. You can understand why it
has its eye on the U.S.
YURKEVICH: How did you hear about Luckin?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I actually heard about it from TikTok. Apparently, it's China's number one coffee chain. So we really wanted to try it. It's
actually really good.
STEWART: Here in China, Luckin is known for its cheap prices. This is a specialty latte with oat milk. It only costs about $1.25 U.S. dollars.
Do you think they'll be successful in the United States?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they are cheaper as they are in China now, I think they will be. Coffee is coffee.
YURKEVICH: All right. We got some cold brews here. Ice drinks started about 4.50 and go up from there.
Luckin isn't the only Chinese beverage company to come to the U.S. HEYTEA, a really popular tea brand in China, has been here in the United States
since 2023.
STEWART: HEYTEA is very popular among young people here in China. It's very sweet, but there's also a fresh taste to it.
YURKEVICH: The Chinese own company Pop Mart did $1.8 billion in sales last year. And about 23 percent of that came from outside of China, primarily
because of these guys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Labubu unboxing.
STEWART: Even before the Labubu craze, Pop Mart was popular here in China. This is its theme park in Beijing.
[12:50:01]
Well, there's a lot of hype about some of these Chinese brands coming to the U.S. Here in China, American brands like McDonald's have been part of
life here for years.
YURKEVICH: Chinese companies are moving to the United States at the same time that we're in a trade war with China, but U.S. consumers don't seem to
care. They just want a good cup of coffee or their chance to get their hands on the ever elusive Labubu.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: Don't get me started on Labubus. Don't get me started.
All right. San Diego Comic-Con opened its doors Thursday to tens of thousands of self-professed nerds, some dressed in costume, considered the
world's number one pop culture convention. Comic-Con attracts large crowd to see A-list celebrities speak on panels. Convention runs through
Saturday.
We'll be back right after this break. Stick with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: Welcome back.
Now on a Saturday morning in May, Palm Springs, California was rocked by the bombing of a fertility clinic. In the crucial hours after the
explosion, first responders risked their lives to prevent further tragedy and bring hope to families who depend on the clinic services.
CNN's Stephanie Elam has the story of these heroes who sprang into action.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREW MILLS, POLICE CHIEF, PALM SPRINGS POLICE DEPARTMENT: I've heard and felt a very loud explosion and looked and could see the mushroom cloud
going up into the sky.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On May 17th, a bomber parked in front of the American Reproductive Center, or ARC, in Palm
Springs and detonated a device, killing himself, and severely damaging several buildings.
MILLS: The primary building collapsed. The building to the south of it looked like it would have been in a war zone.
ELAM (voice-over): Families depend on the clinic for fertility services.
EMERY BAUCUS, AMERICAN REPRODUCTIVE CENTER PATIENT: It's the only one for 100 miles.
ELAM (voice-over): Emery Baucus conceived a daughter with the help of ARC and was shocked to hear about the attack.
BAUCUS: Initially, my thought was, oh, my gosh, my embryos. I still have two embryos frozen in storage. Are the embryos OK? It was such a
devastating thought that it could all be gone.
ELAM (voice-over): Palm Springs Deputy Fire Chief Greg Lyle and other first responders, realize they should try to save the specimens inside.
LYLE: If we don't do something, then the bad guy wins. There's hopes and dreams in there.
ELAM (voice-over): Lyle went in, along with Chris Meltzer, an FBI agent, despite the dangers.
CHRIS MELTZER, FBI AGENT: The walls and the ceilings were hanging down. Water was running. There was electricity sparking.
[12:55:06]
ELAM (voice-over): Once inside, they quickly realized the backup generators had failed.
LYLE: There was lots of tanks. There was lots of computer and important equipment that needed to be powered.
ELAM (voice-over): They assembled a team of first responders to restore electricity to the building and incubators. And they didn't stop there.
The next day, Lyle and Meltzer climbed into another part of the facility to retrieve important paperwork.
LYLE: There were certain patients that were due to come in that following week. And these were the critical patients that were in this really narrow
time of being successful with having children.
MELTZER: They risked personal health and safety in life to bring hope to other people.
BAUCUS: There are always going to be people who try to ruin happiness for others, but in the end, kindness and love is always going to win.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: And kindness and love always does win.
Well, that does it for this hour of "One World." I'm Eleni Giokos in London. Thanks so much for watching. Have a great weekend. "Amanpour" is up
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
