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One World with Zain Asher
Two Children Killed, 17 Other People Wounded In Attack; Russia Launches Second-Biggest Air Assault Of Ukraine War; New Video Reveals Third Strike In Gaza Hospital Attack; Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook Files Lawsuit To Keep Job; DCD Director Fired by Trump Administration; FEMA Staff Put On Leave After Penning "Katrina Declaration"; Russia Swapping Ruthless Paramilitary In Africa For A Replica; Europe Boosting Defense Capability Amid Russia Threat; The Rising Environmental Cost Of AI Use. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired August 28, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:00]
DR. GAIL SALTZ, PSYCHIATRIST, NEW YORK PSYCHIATRIC INSTITUTE: Distance of the nation. This remains an incredibly rare event. I think that's really
important to help your child to understand. And then to help them to manage anxious feelings, which they may have about this and about other things.
So, what coping tools do they have to manage their anxiety? The practice of deep breathing, getting out and exercise and talking about their feelings,
journaling their feelings. What methods can you help them to develop to manage stress and anxiety and being available to them?
And then talking even potentially as a family about what you want to do, because helping in these situations does help decrease anxiety. What do you
do? What do you want to do? What are your thoughts as a family, about how to make that safe space, that -- that place even safer than it is?
Whatever that may be as a community that you champion, shall we say, whether that is about, you know, inside the school and what kind of
security they have, whether that is about gun control measures, whatever you feel as a family is important to implement, that kind of proactive
stance can actually also help reduce anxiety.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Because it's not just about the short-term effects, you know, and the immediate aftermath of the shooting. You can
only imagine the long-term effects that these kids are going to end up dealing with, whether it's depression, anxiety, PTSD, looking for exits
every time they're in an enclosed space. The list goes on.
But Dr. Gail Saltz, live for us there. Thank you so much. We have to leave it there. We are out of time, sadly. Thank you.
All right. I'm Zain Asher. You are watching the second hour of "One World."
Terror, sadness and anger. The state of Minnesota and much of the U.S. are trying to understand what can be done to stop school shootings today after
19 people were shot at a Catholic school on Wednesday.
Two young children and an eight-year-old -- an eight-year-old and a 10- year-old specifically were killed in this attack, 14 other children and three adults were injured.
Police say the shooter posted a bizarre video manifested online that was filled with racist and anti-Semitic hate as they continue to look for a
motive behind this attack.
Next hour, the Minneapolis community will gather for a prayer service and more calls for action on gun control. Officials are also praising teachers
and others at the school who prevented the tragedy from actually being even worse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACOB FREY, MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR: I'm so grateful to the teachers and the faculty at Annunciation that threw their bodies on top of children.
MATTHEW DEBOER, PRINCIPAL, ANNUNCIATION CATHOLIC SCHOOL: Children were ducked down, adults were protecting children, older children were
protecting younger children. And as we heard earlier, it could have been significantly worse without their heroic action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Let's bring in CNN's Brian Todd in Washington with more in all this.
One of the biggest priorities for police right now, Brian, is, of course, to try to figure out the motive, why on earth this individual carried out
this heinous crime.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Zain, and to try to get at that motive, they're just piecing together as much information as they can
on the shooter themselves.
And now Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O'Hara saying the suspect Robin Westman had no previous criminal history on record.
But today, there are just some clearly some signs there of bizarre and disturbing behavior exhibited by the suspect. Westman appears to have left
a series of online videos which describe an obsession with school shootings and name some other mass shooters such as the 2012 Sandy Hook gunman, the
Columbine Shooters, and the man who attacked the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in 2018.
And according to CNN's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller, Westman also posted a video on YouTube showing writings which
contained anti-black, anti-Semitic, and anti-religious messages.
Now as for the videos, there is one of Westman simply reading the manual for a clothes dryer. That's that video you see there of him in a green
shirt. That video goes on for several minutes.
In one video, the suspect pages through a handwritten notebook. One video shows guns and gun magazines with various messages and racial slurs written
on them. One magazine says the words psycho killer on it.
Now, a key question, what does all of this tell us about a possible motive for the shooting? Minneapolis police chief Brian O'Hara spoke about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN O'HARA, MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA POLICE CHIEF: You know what we've seen so far is just a variety of hate. Just really deranged comments and almost
like an idolizing of previous active shooters.
So right now, we don't have a clear motive to establish for why he did this at the church today. We're obviously open to every possibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: There's also one disturbing video which seems to illustrate part of the shooters plans to attack the church. The video shows a slab of wood
which has the words no escape on it among other things. An actual slab of wood was found at the scene blocking a door of the church from the outside.
[12:05:12]
We have also learned that the shooter identified as female and changed their name legally from Robert to Robin in 2020 with the permission of
their mother.
And, Zain, on Wednesday night, the shooter's uncle, a former Kentucky lawmaker named Bob Heleringer spoke to CNN affiliate WLEX and he called the
attack, quote, an unspeakable tragedy.
The uncle also told the "Associated Press," quote, I wish he had shot me instead of innocent school children. Zain.
ASHER: All right. Brian Todd, live for us there. Thank you.
All right. Volodymyr Zelensky is accusing Moscow of choosing ballistics instead of the negotiating table following Russia's second largest aerial
attack on Ukraine since its full-scale invasion.
At least 19 people were killed including children in the hours' long bombardment on Kyiv overnight that are also damaged E.U. and British
offices. Rescue crews, meantime, are still searching for victims who may be trapped beneath the rubble.
And then what appears to be a reference to repeated threats from the White House to penalize Moscow, the Ukrainian president is reiterating his call
for new tough sanctions on Russia saying that all deadlines have already been missed.
Let's get more now from CNN's Salma Abdelaziz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If you're wondering how President Putin is responding to peace efforts while Kyiv suffered its second largest
aerial attack by Russia since the start of the conflict. That's according to Ukrainian authorities who say that nearly 600 drones in more than 30
missiles were fired by Russia overnight at the capital.
It was a terrifying night for families. Some who had to endure a nine-hour air raid siren. More than 15 people have been killed so far. And among
those victims are children. The youngest is just two years old.
The strikes hit residential buildings, homes, a kindergarten, and even a building belonging to the European Union mission and another building
belonging to the British Council. Both those parties have summoned top Russian diplomats to discuss these strikes.
And this, of course, is happening as President Trump continues to push for peace efforts, for a deal to end the conflict in Ukraine. So far, his
attempts at starting a bilateral meeting between President Putin and President Zelenskyy have fallen flat with Russia simply dragging its feet
on the issue.
It also takes place as E.U., European Union diplomats are meeting in Europe this week to discuss security guarantees for Ukraine, yet, another step in
that peace process, which Russia has just simply batted away on Friday.
President Zelenskyy says some of his top officials will be meeting in New York with some of President Trump's top officials to continue that peace
process.
But in the meanwhile, we are seeing a tried and true Russian strategy as those diplomatic efforts stall the offensive on the ground led by the
Kremlin has intensified. And those drones and missiles continue to rain down on civilians across Ukraine.
Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: All right. Residents say Israeli drones have been dropping leaflets urging them to leave Gaza City. As an IDF spokesperson calls the evacuation
of the largest city in the besieged enclave inevitable.
Israel is ramping up its attacks on the outskirts of Gaza City ahead of a planned takeover. Residents say artillery fire targeted several
neighborhoods in the north today. Many people are heeding the call and fleeing. Others are remaining in the city ruined beyond recognition.
Israel says it will open new aid distribution centers, but none will be in Gaza City forcing people to leave if they want to receive food. About one
million Palestinians call Gaza City home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What should we do? Do we stay here to die, to be broken? My two brothers died. My mother was murdered. My cousins were killed before
my eyes. What should we do? We keep moving from one place to another until God above looks upon us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Now, a CNN exclusive on the Israeli attack on Nasser Hospital that killed at least 22 people. A new video obtained by CNN shows not two but
actually three strikes on the facility leading to a lot more questions for the IDF.
CNN's Paula Hancocks has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A live Reuters feed of the Gazan city of Khan Younis at 10:08 A.M. the shot freezes and the sound
drops. Israel has targeted the fourth floor of the Nasser Hospital where the camera stood. Reuters' cameraman Hussam Al Masri is killed.
Emergency and health workers rush to the scene along with journalists from a ground floor media tent. It is all broadcast live by Al-Ghad TV from the
street below, the damaged camera and live streaming unit are held up and shown to the crowd.
[12:10:11]
Visible on the staircase is Mariam Abu Dagga, working for "AP." Al Jazeera cameraman Mohammed Salama and freelance journalist Moaz Abu Taha in the
final moments of their lives. Reuters' cameraman Hatem Omar, seen here in a red T shirt, films the scene on his phone.
A rescue worker says they carried two body bags down as they gathered remains of a third body. There was a second explosion. It was 10:17 A.M.
nine minutes after the first strike. Footage filmed seconds later is too horrific to show, lifeless bodies piled on top of each other.
New video obtained by CNN reveals that this second explosion was in fact two near simultaneous strikes. The second and third strikes, less than a
second apart, appear to have caused most of the deaths.
One weapons expert says, quote, "It suggests a more carefully coordinated attack rather than a single vehicle firing at a target of opportunity."
DR. MOHAMMAD SAQER, DIRECTOR OF NURSING, NASSER MEDICAL COMPLEX: What is the point of waiting the humanitarian and medical staff to arrive to a
specific area and target them once they arrive?
HANCOCKS (voice-over): Israeli statements have evolved over the past 48 hours. Israel's prime minister called the deaths a, quote, tragic mishap.
The IDF now says it was targeting a camera, quote, "Positioned by Hamas in the area of the Nasser hospital that was being used to observe the activity
of IDF troops."
No evidence was offered. The IDF claims six terrorists were killed, disputed by Hamas and health officials in Gaza. The IDF has not addressed
the double strike, adding gaps will be examined, including the decision making process and approved munition.
Satellite images show Israeli combat vehicles, including tanks stationed nearby the hospital. An Israeli security official tells CNN the military
fired on the hospital with tank shells.
The staircase was often used as a live camera position by Reuters, "AP" and other global media outlets.
With international media kept out by Israel, local journalists grouped together here searching for cell signal to feed their material to the
world. The last functioning hospital in southern Gaza already struck multiple times.
The United Nations says targeting hospitals, journalists, and rescue workers is forbidden under international law, calling for accountability
and transparency, adding neither have been readily apparent in previous incidents where Israel has investigated itself.
Paula Hancocks, CNN, Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: All right. Still to come, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is thrown into a malady of its own after the Trump
administration fires its director.
And in the 20 years since Hurricane Katrina, U.S. emergency workers have become even more critical. I'll tell you about the emergency they're facing
within their own agency.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:15:05]
ASHER: Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook has filed a lawsuit challenging President Trump's attempt to fire her. Cook filed a suit today in federal
court in Washington.
According to court records, President Trump attempted to fire her over claims that she lied on mortgage applications. She's not been charged there
with any wrongdoing. Cook's lawsuit now sets the stage for high-stakes legal battle with major implications for the independence of the U.S.
Central Bank.
CNN's Katelyn Polantz is joining us live now with more in her lawsuit.
And Lisa Cook's lawsuit, Katelyn, she essentially asked for a judge to rule that Trump's attempt to remove her, was unlawful, and that she remained an
active member of the Federal Reserve. Just take us through it.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Zain. This is going to be heard by a judge in earnest tomorrow morning. This is going to
be very fast-moving because there have been several cases like this already where Donald Trump has fired people in independent agencies around the
federal government.
And the court system has largely let those people stay -- or sorry, they've let those people be removed from their jobs.
Lisa Cook, at the Fed, she says she is different because this is the president doing something that could greatly hurt the nation's economy.
The independence of the federal banking system is so significant here that Lisa Cook argues she is different and should not be able to be removed from
this job.
The judge in federal court in Washington, Jia Cobb, she is going to have a hearing tomorrow on this at 10 A.M. And Cook will also be making arguments
around an important part of how this played out this week with Donald Trump posting on social media that she was going to be fired.
It's not just the president saying, I'm removing you because I'm the president, although he will very likely argue his authority as the chief
executive of the U.S.
What is being argued by Cook here is more about, there's no cause for her to be fired. And if Donald Trump says that there are mortgage fraud
allegations around Lisa Cook as he is, saying that's the reason for her termination, she says they've never been investigated, they've never been
proven, and it predates her being confirmed by the U.S. Senate to this role on the Federal Reserve Board of Governors.
All of this should not allow for the president to just remove her because he chooses and because he says. There would be a for cause reason to do so.
Zain?
ASHER: All right. Katelyn Polantz live for us. Thank you so much.
All right. To a growing crisis at America's national public health agency, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is without an official
leader right now after the dramatic firing of Director Susan Monarez. Sources say it follows internal pressure from the U.S. Health Secretary
Robert Kennedy Jr.
It comes at a hugely difficult time for the CDC. A gunman attacked its main campus in Atlanta earlier this month, killing a police officer.
Jacqueline Howard has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: There is chaos at the CDC right now. And just this morning, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. had this to
say on "Fox and Friends" when he was asked about this exodus of CDC officials. Have a listen.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR., U.S. SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: No, it has not caught us at surprise -- by surprise. Again, I cannot comment on
personnel issues, but the agency is in trouble and we need to fix it. And we are fixing it. And it may be that some people should not be working
there anymore.
HOWARD: And what we know sources tell CNN that the ouster of CDC director Dr. Susan Monarez actually followed clashes that she had with HHS Secretary
Robert F. Kennedy Jr., as well as internal pressure from Kennedy's deputy chief of staff.
We know that -- that behind the scenes, there were these tensions around vaccine policies, around the priorities. Dr. Monarez says that she has been
following the science.
[12:20:06]
But just weeks after she was sworn in as CDC director, here's what developed overnight. The White House said in a statement, quote, Susan
Monarez is not aligned with the president's agenda of making America healthy again. Since Susan Monarez refused to resign despite informing HHS
leadership of her intent to do so, the White House has terminated Monarez from her position."
Now, in response, Dr. Monarez' attorneys say this in a statement, quote, "Our client was notified tonight by White House staff in the personnel
office that she was fired. As a presidential appointee, Senate confirmed officer, only the president himself can fire her. For this reason, we
reject notification Dr. Monarez has received as legally deficient, and she remains as CDC director. We have notified the White House counsel of our
position."
And as we know, following Dr. Monarez' ouster, we did see other top CDC officials announce they are leaving the agency. This is in solidarity with
Dr. Monarez. And this is all happening just months after we did see sweeping the job cuts at the agency in the spring.
This turmoil leaves public health experts concerned. There is no one currently it seems steering the ship at CDC. And this could have potential
public health implications.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: The Trump administration is pushing ahead with its crackdown on U.S. federal agencies. Several workers at the Federal Emergency Management
Agency or FEMA have been put on leave. It comes just a day after 180 current and former female -- FEMA, rather, staffers signed an open letter
to Congress accusing both Donald Trump and Homeland Security Secretary boss Kristi Noem of undermining FEMA's capabilities.
The letter, titled "Katrina Declaration" was written as the U.S. marks 20 years since Hurricane Katrina. The failed response to which led to the
deaths of almost 1,400 people.
Workers say the Trump administration's overhaul of FEMA could lead to similar catastrophes in the future.
Let's speak to someone who had a front row view to the Hurricane Katrina disaster. Meteorologist Jeff Masters is a former Hurricane Hunter and co-
founder of the Weather Underground website. He's now working at Yale Climate Connections. Jeff joins us live now from Highland in Michigan.
Jeff, thank you so much for being with us.
In the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, there were so many investigations and reports that really showed that a lot of the deaths
could, of course, been prevented. You had this idea that local and state officials often struggle to evacuate and rescue and house people after the
disaster unfolded, especially in the hardest hit and most vulnerable parts of Louisiana.
So, as a result of Hurricane Katrina, we know that FEMA was, of course, overhauled. And now you have sweeping changes by President Trump in an
attempt to sort of politicize the agency. Obviously, he fired a number of people who signed this letter, essentially criticizing Kristi Noem's
handling of the agency and also obviously David Richardson and -- and -- and various other current and former officials at FEMA.
Just walk us through how that, all of that sort of politicization threatens to jeopardize the overhaul that was initially made in the aftermath of
Hurricane Katrina 20 years ago.
JEFF MASTERS, METEOROLOGIST: Congress put in place some safeguards here to improve our disaster management. One of those was that we had to have an
official in charge of FEMA who had disaster experience because Michael Brown, who was in charge of FEMA back then, he was an Arabian horse expert.
But now, we've had two consecutive interim directors of FEMA who have no disaster management experience. And also, Congress mandated that we should
have -- the Department of Homeland Security not messing around with the internal affairs, yet, that's exactly what's going on now.
Kristi Noem has to personally approve every expenditure over $100,000 that FEMA does. And this really hurt us during the recent floods in Texas
because FEMA was not boots on the ground until like three days afterwards because of some of these restrictions.
So, this is really hurting us to have these sorts drains on FEMA, in addition to losing 2,000 employees, about a third of their workforce.
ASHER: And just a specific, just a sort of hone in on this idea of losing employees. As I mentioned, you had about 200 people signing this open
letter to President Trump, 200 FEMA employees. And then you had about three dozen using their real name.
A number of those people ended up fired, including two employees who were working within Kerr County. And our international audience remember that
Kerr County was that county that incurred those floods in July.
[12:25:01]
So, what sort of effect on disaster response is there when you have a number of workers within FEMA just being fired at whim?
MASTERS: It's a bad situation, particularly now that we're approaching the peak part of hurricane season. Why are we putting on administrative leave
so many of our key employees when, you know, we're likely going to need them more than any other time of the year?
FEMA showed that they really couldn't handle a relatively small scale disaster like in Texas, although it was very deadly. It did not impact a
huge part of the country.
If you have a massive hurricane like we had two of last year, Helene and Milton hitting the U.S., FEMA was really not prepared for that. And we've
already lost so much of their brain trust of the organization. And we're losing additional more people by doing these sort of vindictive, placing
people on administrative leave for calling attention to the very problems that it is their job to do so.
ASHER: And one of the things that was mentioned in this open letter is this idea that any kind of head, I mean, you touched on this already in your
initial answer with this idea that anyone who's running FEMA should have the legal qualifications, the Senate approval, and most of all the
experience necessary to lead the agency.
I mean, there was a sort of clip that went viral just a few months ago because David Richardson, the current head of FEMA, apparently didn't know
that the U.S. had a hurricane season at all, which obviously, you know, a lot of people laughed at that.
But that is actually quite a serious thing. The fact that you have the head of the nation's most important disaster management agency, 20 years on from
Hurricane Katrina, but at a time when we are seeing because of climate change, a lot of floods throughout the U.S. has no idea that this country
has a hurricane season at all. How damaging is that?
MASTERS: I mean, that's hugely damaging for not just the morale of FEMA itself, but for the American population at large. And the acting director
did not even show his face in the wake of the Texas floods until over a week afterwards. He should have been there right away.
So, it's obvious that FEMA is not being confidently managed, and that is very injurious to our disaster preparedness and response.
ASHER: And what is your major concern? What is your main concern, rather, as it -- as it pertains to disaster response, especially given that --
given climate change, we are likely to continue seeing more floods and more natural disasters across this country?
MASTERS: Yes. I mean, I think having simultaneous disasters would be my main concern here. Say you get an earthquake in California at the same time
you get a major hurricane in Florida. We cannot even manage one of those, let alone two, simultaneously.
So as you said, climate change is increasing the odds of extreme weather events capable of causing disasters. And we're cutting our capability at
the very time that we most need it. So, we should be investing more in our disaster preparedness and response capabilities, spending more on FEMA,
making it a cabinet level agency, taking it out of the Department of Homeland Security and making it stand alone.
All these things need to happen to respond to the threat of climate change, increasing the number of weather disasters we're going to be seeing.
ASHER: All right. Jeff Masters live for us there. Thank you so much.
All right. Still ahead, replacing one ruthless paramilitary organization with another. We'll explain why Russia is swapping the notorious Wagner
Group in West Africa with one that looks very similar.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:30:13]
ASHER: All right. Welcome back to "One World." I am Zain Asher.
Turning now to West Africa where Moscow has been working to expand its military footprint and geopolitical power.
In Mali, a Kremlin-controlled armed force known as Africa Corps, has replaced the ruthless paramilitary group, Wagner. And we're now learning
why.
According to a new report by "The Sentry," Wagner had caused a lot of trouble for the Malian military. It says interviews with Malian soldiers
revealed Wagner fighters would often operate outside of the chain of command. And ultimately, they failed in their task to eliminate terrorist
groups.
Africa Corps, meantime, consists of combat commanders from Russia's army and a former Wagner fighters. It's controlled and managed by Moscow as
well. And the group is now conducting joint operations with Mali -- Mali's military.
Time now for "The Exchange." Justyna Gudzowska is Executive Director at "The Sentry." She joins us live now from New York. Justyna, thank you so
much for being with us.
So Saturday, last Saturday, actually marked about two years since the death of Yevgeny Prigozhin in that horrific plane crash that a lot of people
believe was ordered by Vladimir Putin. How has Wagner Group's operations in Africa? Obviously, it's now built under a different name, a lot of them.
But how has the group's operations across Africa changed since the death of its leader?
JUSTYNA GUDZOWSKA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE SENTRY: Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
So, after that untimely death of the Wagner leader Prigozhin, the -- the Kremlin proceeded to replace the Wagner Group with the Africa Corps. It's
largely a rebranding of the group. It's taken around a couple of years.
But most recently, the Kremlin announced that Wagner would be leaving Mali and has been replaced with the Africa Corps. This is occurring in countries
around Africa. This is going to occur in the Central African Republic. And other places in Africa, it's already occurred.
So, it's more of a rebranding. But this time, the Africa Corps will be under a much tighter leash under the Ministry of Defense.
ASHER: Talk to us about how much havoc the Wagner Group now, obviously, Africa Corps, as you point out, rebranded. How much havoc have they wreaked
in places across Africa? In, say, Mali, for example, as we're talking about Mali, whether it's human rights abuses, whether it's torture, whether it's
operating outside of the chain of command.
And obviously, their goal or the promise that they made to the Malian government was to help them tackle terrorist groups. And they have -- they
had, in part, failed in that objective. But they also caused a lot of suffering as well. Walk us through that.
GUDZOWSKA: Yes, of course. So Wagner Group, wherever they go, violence tends to rise. And Malian, in particular, they've been an agent of chaos.
They ostensibly came in on a counterterrorism mission and have failed in that miserably.
[12:35:14]
In fact, terrorism is on the rise in Mali and across the Sahel and groups such as JNIM have only strength. And JNIM is the fearsome Al-Qaeda
affiliate that operates in the Sahel.
So, Wagner's extreme violence against civilians, its violence against Malian soldiers, has actually helped terrorist groups in particular JNIM
recruit.
Wagner's actions have been the most costly for the civilians. Wagner itself is extremely violent as was shown with the Moura massacre shortly after
Wagner arrived in Mali, as well as leading to reactive attacks by terrorist groups.
So, Wagner's violence has increased violence by the terrorist groups. And Wagner has also been a terrible influence on the Malian military itself
where violence by the Malian military has increased since Wagner's arrival. So, the civilians are really the biggest victims in all of this.
ASHER: So, the civilians end up being the ones paying the price. We've talked about human rights abuses. We've talked about them operating outside
the chain of command. We've talked about how they negatively impact Malian soldiers and the Malian military in terms of making them more violent.
And on top of that, you have a situation where they're very objective, which is to try to help eliminate terrorism, but they failed at that. So,
why are a lot of African governments still willing to sign contracts and work with the Wagner Group, AKA Africa Corps?
GUDZOWSKA: Yes. I think part of it is the reputation Wagner has, and now Africa Corps, as a fearsome fighting force. And part of the reason behind
the centuries report, our report, is to bust that myth.
Wagner is actually not the fighting force we tend to think it is. It has made a lot of mistakes and has suffered a lot of casualties themselves.
They increase your problems. They don't solve them, but certain countries have turned away from the West, especially former colonial powers such as
France.
So, a number of countries in the region that have had coups in the last few years have turned away from France and other Western powers have called
into Russia.
So, part of the reasoning behind our report is buyer beware, caveat emptor. You think you're going to get a reliable partner in Russia, but Russia is
not going to be a reliable partner. It's not going to solve your problems. It's going to exacerbate your problems.
ASHER: Yes, caveat emptor. And just in terms of what Russia stands to gain, I mean, we all know, obviously, that one of the major goals for a lot of
Western powers in terms of entering Africa is, of course, natural resources.
We know that Mali, of course, has gold. But just explain to us in detail what the Wagner Group or Africa Corps stand to gain, both in terms of
natural resources and beyond that.
GUDZOWSKA: So, it's one thing is influence, right? Russia goes into these African countries looking for influence, looking for friends. They're not
that many friends that Russia has around the world. So, it's looking to exploit colonial grievances to establish their own influence, fear of
influence within Africa.
The second thing it's trying to do and has done with some success in other places like the Central African Republic Sudan is gain access to natural
resources. It was very successful during that in the Central African Republic, where the Wagner Group gained access to gold, diamonds, and
timber.
And it tried to replicate the same thing in Mali, but failed because the circumstances in Mali are very different. It is a very gold rich country
indeed, but there are already a lot of multinational, very established mining companies operating in Mali.
And we heard from the Ministry of Mines in Mali that the junta was not really willing to take the risk, kick out those multinationals and replace
them with Wagner for industrial scale mining. The junta is very dependent on tax revenue from industrial scale mining and these multinational mining
giants.
Similarly on the artisanal mining, Wagner also tried to establish a footprint, but failed. So, it's just very, very different circumstances.
And you can't go into a country thinking you had success in one thing in another and expect the same results.
ASHER: You have three major powers vying for influence in Africa and got the U.S. to a lesser extent, obviously, under the Trump administration. But
certainly under the Biden administration, it was a priority and definitely under Obama. And then you obviously have China and now you have Russia. To
what extent has Russian influence eroded the influence of the other two?
[12:40:18]
GUDZOWSKA: Well, I think it's interesting, especially with Western countries. You know, Russia is a partner that doesn't ask many questions.
It doesn't care about your human rights record. It doesn't care whether you had a coup, whether you're a democracy. So, I think that's one reason all
of these countries are bringing them in.
But, you know, Western countries have also turned away from Africa in a way. So again, Russia is seen as a -- a partner with a great fighting
force.
China is also obviously, as we all know, in Africa, but it's much more focused on the economic, the business interests. Russia is more of a -- of
a military partner.
You know, I think that the thing to think about is that the three countries in the Sahel, Mali, Niger, Burkina Faso left ECOWAS, which is a regional
economic and political block of West African countries.
So, our recommendation would be for them to rejoin. Stop looking for, you know, other Western powers. Look towards your partners in Africa, regional
partners and work on regional security and regional economic solutions.
ASHER: All right. Justyna Gudzowska, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
All right. Europe is ramping up its own defense capabilities. Russia's war in Ukraine is leading nations like Germany to increase their military
power. CNN's Sebastian Shukla explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEBASTIAN SHUKLA, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): Europe is forging ahead to tackle dwindling ammunition supplies. In central Germany, Rheinmetall, one
of the largest contractors in Europe, has just opened this cavernous ammunition factory.
Spread over the size of five football fields, it aims to produce 350,000 rounds of ammunition by 2027. The Lower Saxony plant has been finished in
record time, just 18 months and it has already started churning out NATO standard 155 millimeter artillery shells.
ARMIN PAPPERGER, CEO RHEINMETALL: Well, I think it's very important to -- to -- to give a signal also how fast we are able to be so we can react.
Europe is able to react. NATO is able to -- to react.
SHUKLA: The opening of this factory is symbolic, if not significant. It's also very serendipitous. Europe is looking to replenish its ammunition
stores. And the idea of security guarantees for Ukraine is also back on the table.
SHUKLA (voice-over): NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte alongside German Vice Chancellor and the German Defense Minister putting on a show.
But the question of security guarantees for Ukraine is still largely unclear.
MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: This is detailed, difficult stuff. You have to hammer it all out. So, the fact that nine days later we have not
agreed on everything is not a bad signal, means that we are working hard and I'm absolutely sure we will get there.
SHUKLA (voice-over): While the future of European security was on show in Lower Saxony, in Berlin, Germany was shaping its new security and defense
posture. Chancellor Friedrich Merz held a symbolic cabinet meeting inside the Defense Ministry, the first in 20 years from a room known as the U-
boat, German for submarine.
The reintroduction of voluntary conscription and the formation of Germany's first ever National Security Council, all discussed and approved.
FRIEDRICH MERZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): Russia is and will remain the greatest threat to freedom, peace, and stability in Europe for a
long time to come. And the German government is responding to this with determination.
SHUKLA (voice-over): Europe then is making serious strides in its own security posture and capabilities but tangible details on their support to
end the war in Ukraine is still lacking precision.
Sebastian Shukla, CNN, Unterluess, Germany.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: We'll be right back with more after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:45:54]
ASHER: For this month's "African Insider," we're visiting Nigeria, where Bennie Technologies is building homegrown machines that are designed to
make farming faster and more affordable, while training the next generation of local engineers. Here's their story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JERRY ISAAC MALLO, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, BENNIE GROUP: My parents were farmers. I was born in a society where we went to the farm as early as 6:00
A.M. and sometimes came back as late as 10 P.M.
So I stayed to think of machines that will reduce my time being on the farm, so I could get more time to study about cars.
In my just one, I made my first treasure.
SOLOMON SAMUEL, HEAD OF FABRICATION, BENNIE GROUP: This machine is a -- is an easy machine that will help farmers to ease their farming time frame and
(INAUDIBLE) their cost of labor and actually it's very fast and efficient.
VICTOR SAMUEL, HEAD OF DESIGN, BENNIE GROUP: We look at how foreign machines are being made. And we try to see how we are going to make it in a
way that is going to suit our own environment here because we -- we realize that where we import some of these machines. They don't suit our own needs
here.
For example, this is the crawler tractor, which we try to see how we are going to redesign it to the way that it's going to fit into our own
farmers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bennie, beyond just fabrication, we see ourselves as the matchstick, always tighten the jaws of the vise for the young minds that
wants to build value in Nigeria. So, we organize trainings at intervals where we bring in young minds that wants to learn more about manufacturing
and about fabrication and we give them the basic training from the designs to understanding what they need to do and converting their ideas into
walkable values that the end users will be able to use.
MALLO: In the next five years, we see ourselves being a major household name within Africa. We want to see how we are doing. We're one of the key
players in -- in mechanized agricultural space. We want to see how we make agricultural equipment mostly available and affordable to the end users,
focusing on small and medium scale farmers.
Africa is gradually getting to that point where it wants to consume indigenous products. So, there's increasing demand for vehicles. We see
ourselves developing day-to-day vehicles, utility vehicles, SUVs, trucks, tricycles, and a couple of others.
So, as we develop in the agricultural sector, we really want to develop in the automotive industry to have more affordable and available vehicles
around.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:29]
ASHER: Every day, more than a two and a half billion messages are sent to ChatGPT. But that popularity comes with an increase in the energy and
resources needed for data centers to process the billions of requests.
CNN's Clare Duffy has more on how to use AI in more sustainable ways.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SASHA LUCCIONI, CLIMATE AND AI RESEARCHER: The whole pipeline, the whole life cycle of AI requires a lot of energy. And the amounts of energy are
truly phenomenal. The hyperscale data centers, like the ones that have a lot of AI running on them can use as much energy as a town, essentially.
CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER (voice-over): The data centers answering your AI questions are pulling a whole lot of electricity from local grids
and a ton of water to stay cool. The computers inside are made from rare earth metals that have to be mined out of the ground.
There's limited data out there, but some big AI companies have given us at least some indication of the resources their AI systems use.
In its latest environmental report, Google said the electricity consumed by its data centers grew 27 percent in 2024 compared to the year prior.
Although it said emissions were falling, thanks to investments in clean energy and making its technology more efficient.
OpenAI CEO, Sam Altman, has written that one ChatGPT query uses just about 0.34 watt hours, about what a high-efficiency light bulb uses in a couple
of minutes. But OpenAI also says that more than 2.5 billion messages are sent to ChatGPT daily.
So, if you do the math, everyday ChatGPT is using enough energy to keep that light bulb running for more than 9,500 years.
Google estimates the average text question to its chatbot Gemini uses slightly less, about 0.24 watt hours.
Part of the challenge is that AI systems demand a lot more resources than earlier computing models.
LUCCIONI: According to the studies that I ran on open source models, it's 30 times more energy for a generative model compared to an old school, like
traditional model for a task like web search. We're still using Google. We're still using Bing.
The fact that we're switching out tasks that were traditionally done in -- in a much more kind of efficient way with generative AI and then multiplied
by the amount of people that uses these tools every day, that's what really worries me, because the interfaces are the same but the back end is so much
more energy and resource intensive and we don't see that.
DUFFY: So for consumers out there who are trying to be mindful about the impact of their AI usage, how do you go about that?
[12:55:07]
LUCCIONI: I think that by default, a lot of AI models are quite verbose. So just like being very specific about what I'm looking for is a like a single
number or a single fact can be really useful.
If you're having this long conversation and then at the end you say, thank you, you're essentially asking it to take all of the context that came
before and then just like one small token and then it responds, you're welcome.
Use specific tools for specific tasks. So, use a -- a cookbook or a recipe website. Don't use ChatGPT. ChatGPT uses probably like 10,000 times more
energy than a calculator or your phone. Same thing with a book or a simple web search.
A good rule of thumb, if -- if a model does a single task, it's going to use a lot less energy.
For a lot of people, it's become ChatGPT for just about anything. And that's where environmental costs add up. We should be using multiple
platforms, multiple tools. And I think that that's a healthy practice to have as a user.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: Clare Duffy reporting there.
All right. That does it for "One World." I'm Zain Asher. Appreciate you watching. Bianna Golodryga, my colleague and friend has "Amanpour" after
the short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:00:00]
END
