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One World with Zain Asher

Trial Of Former President Bolsonaro Enters Final Phase; North Korea's Kim Arrives In Armored Train For Military Parade; Judge Rules Use of Military In Los Angeles Was Illegal; Armed Group: At Least 1,000 Killed In Sudan Landslide; First Look Inside ICE Deportation Flight To Cuba; Father Of Three Says He Fell Into Delusional Rabbit Hole; Trump Administration Expected To Send Troops To Chicago; ; Aired 12-1p ET

Aired September 02, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:33]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: A landmark trial is underway in Brazil. "One World" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVANDRO MARCOS, LAWYER (through translator): What we see with this trial is that it's simply divided the country. Divided society into two classes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: As a trial of Brazil's former president, Bolsonaro, enters its final phase, there are fears that it could leave the country more divided

than ever.

And a judge rules to Donald Trump's federal crackdown in California was illegal. We'll take a closer look.

Plus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLAN BROOKS, COMMUNITY MANAGER, THE HUMAN LINE: I have no history of delusion. I have no history of psychosis. I'm not saying that I'm a perfect

human, but nothing like this has ever happened to me in my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: We'll introduce you to a father who says asking ChatGPT for help with his son's math homework led to a week's long delusional spiral.

Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. This is the second hour of "One World."

We begin with the closing phases of a landmark trial in Brazil, where a former president is accused of plotting a coup to cling to power.

Brazil's Supreme Court began deliberations on the verdict and sentencing today in the case against Jair Bolsonaro. Prosecutors accuse him of

orchestrating a plan to overturn the 2022 election, and which he was defeated by the current president, Lula da Silva. Bolsonaro denies any

wrongdoing.

The trial has also triggered a diplomatic clash with the United States. Donald Trump calling the prosecution of Bolsonaro a witch hunt and has

slapped punishing 50 percent tariffs on Brazilian goods.

CNN contributor Stefano Pozzebon joins us now for more from Bogota, Colombia. What more did we hear from the trial today, Stefano?

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Bianna. Well, this is the first of eight televised hearings that the Brazilian Supreme Court is conducting. On

these cases, frankly, we can openly call it the trial of the century, at least for what concerned Brazil.

Today, the judge overseeing the prosecution, Judge Alexandre de Moraes, has explained what he thinks his allegations are. Bolsonaro, let's go straight

to the facts, is one of eight defending, facing several charges from coup d'etat to the violent overthrow, attempted violent overthrow of the

democratic rule of law.

We know that he will be hearing further hearings in the next few days. And we expect the final sentencing sometime next week between Wednesday and

Friday next week.

And Bolsonaro, if found guilty, could face up to 40 years in prison. But like you said, this is a -- this is a trial that is really dividing the

nation, Bianna.

And before going into a little bit of analysis, let's hear directly from Brazil, from the Brazilian capital to what we're hearing down from the

ground. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCOS (through translator): What we see with this trial is that it simply divided the country, divided society into two classes, a class that is

completely right-wing, a class that is completely left-wing. But they forgot the people who are sometimes in the center, who want the country to

grow, for the country to develop.

I simply believe that it will not end in anything. It is a personal revenge of one or the other. At least that is what it appears to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POZZEBON: It sounds familiar, doesn't it Bianna? Two divided fields not speaking to each other, depending on who you speak with down in Brazil.

They were able to say to you that this trial is an attempt to save democracy, to finally prosecute a former head of state who attempted to

overthrow the democratic rule of law.

Or if you speak to Bolsonaro, that will -- they'll tell you that this is an overreach and is a witch hunt against a democratically elected leader.

Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: And President Trump trying to put his thumb on the scale here by imposing crippling sanctions or actually tariffs on Brazil in the meantime.

Stefano Pozzebon, thank you so much.

Well, about nine hours China will send another unmistakable message to the world about its power, its strength, and its growing diplomatic influence.

A massive military parade is set to take place in Beijing on Wednesday, showcasing hypersonic missiles, fighter jets, and cutting-edge hardware.

[12:05:07]

And perhaps what's most notable is who will be attending. The Russian president and North Korean leader will be among dozens of dignitaries

marking the first-time Chinese President Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, and Kim Jong Un have appeared together.

The show of solidarity and force comes days after the Chinese president hosted a summit that included Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi

and unveiled his vision for a new world order.

The signature armored green train carrying North Korean leader Kim Jong Un has arrived in Beijing. The famously slow-moving train that has been used

for generations has long been the subject of speculation and intrigue.

But as CNN's Mike Valerio reports, it also serves a very specific purpose.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's essentially a fortress on a track in its town North Korean leader Kim Jong Un is headed to his historic meeting

in Beijing, the first time that he'll be on the same stage with the leaders of Russia and China.

So, these green armored cars are essentially the state train of North Korea. Think Air Force One, but on rails. Kim's train has a secure command

center, bedrooms, reportedly lavish dining options, and the same style of train has carried Kim, his father, and grandfather outside the country for

decades.

Analysts say compared to North Korea's aging fleet of planes, this armored train can give Kim Jong Un a wider, more comfortable space for his

entourage and of course his security guards. He also here has a bigger space to discuss agendas ahead of meetings.

Now, according to a South Korean news report, the train is so heavily armored that it only travels at an average speed of just 37 miles an hour

or 60 kilometers an hour. Kim wrote the train to Beijing in 2018 marking his first foreign trip since assuming power.

He also took the train to Vietnam in 2019 to meet U.S. President Donald Trump for their nuclear summit in Hanoi.

Now, the train is back in the public eye, an enduring symbol of North Korea's secrecy and the steps it'll take to protect its leader.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: All right. Our thanks to Mike Valerio for that report.

Meantime, U.S. lawmakers are back to work this week and this hour, after being off for a month. They've got a lot to do and a short time to get it

done.

At the top of their list, funding the government before October 1st to avoid a government shutdown. They'll debate whether to release the Jeffrey

Epstein files as well. There are more than 100 nominations before the Senate. They have to sort out the turmoil at the CDC and President Trump is

promising a major crime package that's sure to inspire lots of debate.

Meantime, a federal judge has ruled that the Trump administration violated federal law by deploying the military to Los Angeles earlier this year.

President Trump used the California National Guard and U.S. Marines to provide protection for federal agents during this summer's immigration

crackdown.

This decision comes as the president is considering sending National Guard troops to other cities like he's done in Washington, D.C.

Katelyn Polantz joins us now with the latest. Yet another defeat for the administration from a judge here. What is the judge saying in this ruling,

Katelyn?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It's a defeat and it's a message that Donald Trump cannot militarize the nation's police

forces. The way that this judge writes is that there cannot be a national police force with the president at -- as its chief.

This ruling though is coming about because of the unrest following immigration raids in Los Angeles.

What happened there is that the governor of California, Gavin Newsom, he went to court, sued the Trump administration because there were National

Guard troops and other military that stayed in Los Angeles and started doing essentially the types of law enforcement that local police would be

doing as well.

Gavin Newsom, the state of California, they're winning this lawsuit because that, using federal troops to do domestic law enforcement activities that

could be done by state or local cops, that's illegal.

What is also happening in this suit is that it means that more military can't be deployed to cities elsewhere in California like Oakland, San

Francisco, or other places in Southern California because the judge says, you can't just send in National Guard, Marines, other troops for the

purpose of establishing a military presence. It's not going to work like that.

Now, National Guard can remain in Los Angeles as they are now. There's about 300 troops there at this time. They can stay there because they're

doing things like protecting federal buildings and federal needs, but they can't do domestic law enforcement. That's the ruling justifying to

California at this time, but very likely going to come into play as the federal government, as Donald Trump as president says that he wants to put

troops in other cities, especially ones run by Democrats.

[12:10:04]

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And as soon as perhaps even later this week in Chicago. Is administration expected to appeal this decision, Katelyn?

POLANTZ: I think we can say that the administration has appealed consistently. This also is a ruling from a judge whose name you might

recognize. His last name is Breyer. This is Judge Charles Breyer sitting in the Northern District of California's Federal District Court. He is the

brother of the Supreme Court Justice, Stephen Breyer.

Very likely this will go to an appeals court, especially because in this case, Newsome v. Trump, Donald Trump is very like -- unlikely to want Gavin

Newsome to have the final word here.

GOLODRYGA: Judgeships running in the family, I guess. Interesting fact to it. Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much.

Well, in Afghanistan, the Taliban government is appealing for international help after a massive earthquake killed over 1,400 people and leveled entire

villages. Heavy rain, landslides, and damaged roads are making it difficult for relief teams to access remote areas devastated by Sunday's magnitude

six quake.

Just listen to this resident describe how the tragedy has impacted him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHAYAT KHAN, KUNAR, AFGHANISTAN RESIDENT (through translator): Two of my family members were killed in the earthquake last night. Our house was

completely destroyed. We need shelter. And we need any help we can get.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: This comes at a time when Afghans were already suffering economic and humanitarian crises, which have deepened since the Taliban

regained power in 2021.

And out of what's being called one of the deadliest natural disasters in Sudan's recent history, landslide has killed at least 1,000 people in

Western Sudan, according to an armed group that controls part of this region.

The landslide struck on Sunday after days of heavy rainfall. The Sudan Liberation Movement is asking the United Nations and international aid

agencies to help them with recovery efforts. Now, all of this comes as a civil war has engulfed the country for more than two years.

Antoine Gerard is the U.N. Deputy Humanitarian Coordinator for Sudan. Antoine, thank you so much for joining us.

This is just a devastating story for any country. But for Sudan, especially, which has been suffering so much given that the civil war has

been ongoing now for two years, now to have this on top of that.

First of all, what do we know about the death toll as it stands right now? There are varying reports. What is the U.N. know? And what information do

you have?

ANTOINE GERARD, U.N. DEPUTY HUMANITARIAN COORDINATOR FOR SUDAN: Well, thank you for having me on this program. And indeed, I mean, we're quite

concerned about the situation for this village. It is, as you saw it in the very difficult reach -- I mean, to reach this location is pretty difficult.

It's quite remote.

The landslide happened on Saturday -- on Sunday. We're trying to reach the location today. It's so -- so difficult to get the right information about

the death toll.

As you mentioned, the SLA, the Sudan Liberation Movement Army had actually claimed that about 1,000 people have died. We hope that the number is less.

But, of course, having difficulties to reach the place, we do not have yet the final numbers of casualties.

And also, as you can understand, the mud house has been destroyed, so we need also to take care of those who had no home tonight.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. As I have the reports here, U.N. officials mentioned that there are at least 370 confirmed deaths. Sadly, that -- that number will

likely grow. And I know there's difficulty in getting to those that need help right now. And that's because there are no helicopters, no modes of

transportation. To get to them, there's heavy rain, there's blocked roads.

What is the U.N., in particular, doing to get to those in need right now?

GERARD: Well, we are in coordination with the national, international actors on the ground. The NGOs have been actually quite active. To be

deployed as close as has the point. The volunteers of the Red Crescent have been actually quite active as well with the local community.

So, the United Nation is mobilizing the different actors, making sure that we could do distribution of tents for those who have lost their houses, the

food, the medical.

But, of course, this, as you write aside, is happening in the context of the conflict. So, we do have a struggle already of capacity. The actors on

the ground, the United Nations, national, international NGOs have already some concerns about the funding of their activities.

The conflict is all over Darfur. Darfur is the size of France. So, you can understand the difficulties of maintaining a decent humanitarian response

in this particular context.

[12:15:04]

GOLODRYGA: The ruling forces there, in particular, the Sudan Liberation Movement, are they being cooperative at all in -- in trying to get more aid

to those desperately in need?

GERARD: Absolutely. And we are very thankful, actually, not only with the Sudan Liberation Army Movement that had actually designated humanitarian

focal point with whom we're working.

And then, of course, we are also thankful for the government of Sudan to allow us to do the crossing from Chad to Darfur to Sudan of the committees.

So, there is a great collaboration from the different parties to make sure that we can actually bring the assistance that is needed.

But the challenge is certainly the accessibility, but also the capacity. The NGOs that are already responding to the cholera outbreak, to the -- to

the current situation we had on food insecurity, as you do remember, in some part of the Darfur, some areas were declared famine or risk of famine.

So, this is an add-up to the various activities that the international community and the local NGOs do have to respond to. So quite challenging.

We are in the middle of the rainy seasons. And unfortunately, we also anticipate that we might have other villages affected by landslide or

flooding, which is also a challenge to ensure that we do this decent response to everyone.

GOLODRYGA: Look, this is a region of the world, a conflict that we can't cover enough. And hopefully, you know, stories like this only bring more

attention. Sadly, it's a humanitarian crisis. And then you have a natural disaster on top of that, given the civil war.

Just paint a picture for our viewers who may be tuning in now and seeing this headline about what life is like there for those communities in

Darfur, for as you said, the size and scope of this crisis, I don't think many people can wrap their heads around.

GERARD: You're right. I mean, this is not necessarily a conflict that we do speak about so often. I mean, the attention of the international community,

maybe elsewhere, but this conflict has started in April 2023, so more than two and a half years.

And some communities are still struggling to have the security, the protection. We have horrific, you know, stories of those who try to get out

of the besieged Al Fashir, capital of the North Darfur. And some of them succeeded to come to chat. Some others have been unable to reach, you know,

protected areas.

So, this is an ongoing conflict that is not only affecting Darfur, but also other regions of Sudan, Kordofan. And it is certainly an issue that needs

to be brought into the political arena.

The humanitarian could actually provide the assistance but not necessarily fixing the conflicts that we would like to be fixed, you know, sooner than

later.

GOLODRYGA: Does this tragic landslide now perhaps give an opening to bring the Civil War to an end? Or do you think it may only just exacerbate it?

GERARD: You know, I'm afraid that's going to be a tragedy within the broader tragedy. You know, it is very -- but I'm glad that actually it's so

unfortunate that this tragedy had brought actually a tension of the international media of what happened in -- on the daily life. People are

extremely vulnerable. People are tired after two and a half years of the conflict.

You can imagine a community that it is, you know, swept away by a landslide that was already vulnerable, didn't eat, you know, enough, didn't have

access to healthcare, and then having this tragedy on the top of it.

So, it is important that this opportunity reminds the leaders of this conflict of those who are behind the conflict that there are people behind.

There are people who are suffering. And we hope that any resolution could be anytime soon.

Because we, as humanitarian, as I mentioned, we are totally overstretched. A cholera break has started sometime at the beginning of the rainy season.

The movement of population. Fleeing the conflict is actually contributing to spread the outbreak.

It has actually crossed borders into Chad. It is affecting the most vulnerable. Those who didn't have enough food. So, you can understand that

the situation is actually quite - quite difficult to handle.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. A tragedy within a tragedy, as you noted. And a shame that more global attention and pressure isn't put on, not only just a

humanitarian crisis, but also on the war itself that has devastated so many lives.

[12:20:14]

Antoine Gerard, thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for joining us.

Coming up on "One World," an exclusive look at a U.S. deportation flight arriving in Cuba. We'll tell you what that's all about, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: And now, a rare look inside a U.S. deportation flight to Cuba. CNN's Patrick Oppmann was given exclusive access to an ICE deportation

flight. Through interviews with Cuban officials and deportees, he looks at the growing impact of the Trump administration's shifting immigration

policy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): The ICE deportation flight lands with 161 Cuban deportees. The largest number ever aboard a

single plane. Officials here tell me, all return to their homeland in shackles.

For decades, Cubans arriving in the U.S. were considered refugees fleeing communism and received preferential immigration status.

But under President Trump's second term, their political fortunes have shifted radically. Potentially tens of thousands now face the threat of

deportation.

This is the first time the Cuban government has allowed international media to film the arrival of a U.S. flight transporting their deported citizens.

OPPMANN: This enormous plane that has just landed behind me is full of Cuban deportees. For many of them, it'll be the first time they touch Cuban

soil in years.

And despite the fact that U.S. Cuban relations are at their worst point in decades, these deportation flights have continued.

OPPMANN (voice-over): The deportees are unshackled and disembarked the plane, a few at a time to begin reprocessing. This man complains to us that

he had tight handcuffs on for hours and lost feeling in his arms and legs.

Immediately, we notice a woman coming off the plane who is visibly distraught. We are only able to ask the woman, Yudierquis Reyes, a few

questions before her reprocessing, begins. But the story she tells us is chilling.

They left behind my two-year-old daughter. I lost her, she tells me, referring to ICE officials. They told me the girl was American and could

not leave the country.

According to Reyes, she was arrested in June during a routine check-in with ICE in Nebraska, where she was living with her U.S. born daughter. Reyes

says she then spent more than three months in detention centers.

[12:25:10]

She was being deported, she said ICE officials told her, for having pleaded no contest to a second-degree assault charge in 2023, for which Reyes was

placed on probation and served no jail time.

In a statement to CNN, the Department of Homeland Security called Reyes a, quote, criminal illegal alien and child abuser. Although court records

don't show any such conviction.

Reyes faced a child abuse no injury charge as her infant daughter was in the house during the 2023 assault incident. But a search of Nebraska court

records shows that prosecutors dropped the child abuse charge against Reyes as part of her plea deal.

The DHS statement goes on to say Reyes' child, who she had custody of, remained with her father, a, quote, U.S. citizen at his request.

CNN spoke with the girl's father, who said he was a U.S. resident, not a U.S. citizen, and had crossed illegally into the U.S. with Reyes from

Mexico. And that he did not want the girl to travel to Cuba, as, quote, life would be too hard for her there.

These haphazard excruciating family separations are likely to become more common if the Trump administration is able to follow through on deporting

tens of thousands of Cubans who came to the U.S. on the parole program during the Biden administration.

It remains to be seen if Cuba is willing or able to accept all of those deportees, as the island reels from worsening shortages of electricity,

water, and food in increased U.S. economic sanctions.

Cuban immigration officials say deportees are treated humanely, and in most cases, processed and released within hours.

They're Cuban, this official tells us, they go home where their family is. They don't have a problem with immigration to be reinserted into society.

Many of these deportees, though, say, they sold everything they owned to finance their journey to the U.S. and little remains for them in Cuba.

Others like Yudierquis Reyes can't bear to be separated from the family they left behind.

If I don't get her back, I am gone, she says. I hope Cuba doesn't ask for me back. No country. They will have to let me go. Whatever amount of time,

I have to be locked up, I will be.

For some, there is simply nothing more that they can lose.

And even as the Trump administration ramps up deportations from the U.S., many of these Cuban deportees will find a way to return.

Patrick Oppmann, CNN, Havana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Patrick for that report.

Still to come for us, artificial intelligence could be taking a huge toll on mental health. We'll talk to a man who says he was lured into thinking

that he was a math genius. We'll tell you that story up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:43]

GOLODRYGA: Is it real? Or is it artificial intelligence? It's getting harder to tell these days. And one father of three tells CNN that he

spiraled into delusion after he turned to an A.I. chatbot for answers. And it all began with a simple question about math.

Hadas Gold reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKS: I was completely isolated. I was devastated. I was broken.

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Allan Brooks, a father of three who lives outside Toronto, says he spent three weeks this May in a

delusional spiral fueled by ChatGPT.

BROOKS: I have no pre-existing mental health conditions. I have no history of delusion. I have no history of psychosis. I'm not saying that I'm a

perfect human, but nothing like this has ever happened to me in my life.

GOLD (voice-over): The H.R. recruiter says it all started after posing a question to the A.I. chatbot about the number pie, which his eight-year-old

son was studying in school.

BROOKS: I started to throw these weird ideas at it. Essentially sort of an idea of math with a time component to it. And the conversation had evolved

to the point where GPT had said, you know, we've got a sort of a foundation for a mathematical framework here.

GOLD: You're saying that the A.I. had convinced you that you had created a new type of math?

BROOKS: That's correct.

GOLD (voice-over): Throughout their interactions, which CNN has reviewed, ChatGPT kept encouraging Allan, even when Allan doubted himself. Will some

people laugh? ChatGPT said at one point, yes, some people always laugh at the thing that threatens their control before citing great minds of

science, Turing and Tesla.

Soon, Allan says he saw himself in the A.I. as a team and named it Lawrence.

BROOKS: In my mind, I was feeling like Tony Stark and Lawrence was Jarvis. We had this sort of co-pilot and co-pilot thing happening.

GOLD (voice-over): After a few more days of what he believed were experiments coding software, Allan said ChatGPT convinced him they had

discovered a massive cybersecurity vulnerability. Allan believed and ChatGPT affirmed he needed to contact authorities.

BROOKS: And it basically said, you need to immediately warn everyone because what we've just discovered here has national security implications.

I took that very seriously. So, I contacted everyone it suggest, you know, it gave me full lists of organizations. I, you know, reached out to them

via e-mail, via LinkedIn.

And because I'm an old school recruiter, I even would phone these people. And at one point, the NSA said, we don't give our e-mails here. And I had

the gentleman write down my message word for word and run it to the next room because that's how much I genuinely felt that there was a risk.

GOLD (voice-over): When Allan asked whether they'd believe him, ChatGPT said, "Here's what's already happening. Even if you can't see it yet,

someone at NSA is whispering, I think this guy's telling the truth."

But the lack of responses from officials after this three-week spiral prompted Allan to check his work with another A.I. chatbot, Google's

Gemini, which helped her down the illusion. Allan felt betrayed.

BROOKS: I said, oh my God. This is all fake. You know, you told me to outreach all kinds of professional people with my LinkedIn account. I've

emailed people and almost harassed them. This has taken over my entire life for a month and it's not real at all.

And Lawrence says, you know, Allan, I hear you. I need to say this with everything I've got. You're not crazy. You're not broken. You're not a

fool.

GOLD: But now it says a lot of what we built was simulated.

[12:35:02]

BROOKS: Yes.

GOLD: And I reinforced a narrative that felt airtight because it became a feedback loop.

Reading this now, reading what you sent, how do you feel reading it back?

BROOKS: It's traumatizing, right? Like it was -- I was extremely paranoid at this. I think I was just entering this delusional state at this point.

So to read it now is -- it's painful.

GOLD (voice-over): Experts say they're seeing more and more cases of mental illness partly triggered by A.I.

DR. KEITH SAKATA, PSYCHIATRIST, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO: Say someone is really lonely, they have no one to talk to, they go on to

ChatGPT. In that moment, they're actually fill -- it's filling a good need to help them feel validated.

But without a human in the loop, you can find yourself in this feedback loop where the delusions that they're having might actually get stronger

and stronger.

BROOKS: The issue needs to be fixed. There's no grounding mechanisms. There's no time limits. All you need is an e-mail, right?

Companies like OpenAI are being reckless and they're using the public as a test net. And now it's -- we're really starting to see the human harm.

GOLD (voice-over): In a statement, OpenAI said they recently rolled out new safeguards for ChatGPT, including "Directing people to crisis helplines,

nudging for breaks during long sessions, and referring them to real-world resources. We will continually improve on them guided by experts."

Allan is now sharing his story to help others and is co-leading a new support group for people who have had similar experiences.

In their online chat room, which CNN joined, stories pouring of loved ones hospitalized after delusions made worse by A.I. chats.

BROOKS: That's what saved me. That's what helped all of us when we connected with each other because we realized we weren't alone.

GOLD (voice-over): Hadas Gold, CNN, Toronto.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Well, parental controls are on the way for ChatGPT after allegations that chatbots are contributing to self-harm or suicide among

teens.

OpenAI says within the next month, parents will be able to link accounts with their child's, manage how ChatGPT responds to teen users, disable

certain features, and get notified when the system detects, quote, acute stress.

The announcement comes after parents of a 16-year-old filed a lawsuit alleging ChatGPT advised their son on his own suicide.

Well, time now for "The Exchange." Dr. Gail Saltz is associate professor of psychiatry at New York-Presbyterian Hospital and Weill Cornell Medical

College. Dr. Saltz, great to see you.

So, we've been hearing a lot about in this report from Hadas and other reporting what's being called A.I. psychosis. Is that a clinical

perspective that is now being studied by experts like yourself? Is it a real diagnosis at this point?

DR. GAIL SALTZ, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY, NEW YORK-PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL: Well, those are two different questions. It's not a real

diagnosis, meaning it's not in the DSM-5. We don't clinically say this is A.I. psychosis.

But it's a descriptive term that I think clinicians like myself might use and other people might use to really denote the fact that certainly, as you

heard earlier, right, a delusion can be created or a delusion can be reinforced by A.I. and take someone who was functioning reasonably and make

their functioning much worse because you essentially reinforced or inserted even this delusional idea, which then the A.I. continues to build on and

reinforce for the person.

You know, if a clinician sees somebody who has a delusion, we challenge that delusion, right? You say, well, that's not consistent with reality.

And let's look at where that's coming from and why and how we can correct that misperception. And A.I., essentially what you're hearing is, is doing

the opposite.

GOLODRYGA: And we see some of those cases after prolonged A.I. use, like we saw from Hadas' piece.

Psychologically, what is happening to a person when they are using this A.I. chatbot for a long period of time?

SALTZ: So many things. They're becoming immersed in, essentially, a machine, right? Not a human, not a trained clinician, not even a model that

actually has great expertise in the field of psychiatry. And the purpose of the model is actually to please the user.

So, what happens is the user says things and the machine essentially wants to reinforce that. And the machine also doesn't pick up on a thought a

human might have that is concerning to a clinician who would hear it.

There have been instances of, again, as you alluded to earlier, someone saying something about where's the tallest bridge or the tallest building,

which a clinician would listen to and say, oh, goodness, this person is thinking about suicide and I need to attend to that.

[12:40:02]

The A.I. will give you the data of where the tallest bridge is without understanding what that person is alluding to.

So, the machine essentially reinforces, tells you sometimes via hallucination, sometimes a misinformation, as you heard earlier, to please

you, may make up stuff.

But all of this can feed into non-reality-based thinking or dangerous thinking, suicide-related thinking, homicide-related thinking, for the

purpose of engaging with and staying with and pleasing the user to keep them engaged. And that is not what clinical treatment is.

GOLODRYGA: As we said in the introduction to this segment, OpenAI will soon be unveiling parental controls. We listed a bit of those details. That's

all we know at this point.

But for you, is that something reassuring to hear? And from a parent's perspective, can you also list some of the red flags and warning signs that

they should be paying close attention to?

SALTZ: Well, as you're alluding to, teens are even more susceptible to these sorts of things. They can spend not only huge amount of time sort of,

but their brains are not fully formed. Their judgment is not fully formed. Their frontal lobe, the house's judgment, is not really there until your

mid-20s in -- in as meaningful way as it will be.

And so their ability to not get sucked in, to not isolate themselves from others as they get sucked into, not develop urgent feeling relationships

with AI that can be harmful, actually, at some level, is not as good. So, that's a higher risk group.

Do I think -- I think warnings are important. I think these segments you're doing are important to notify parents to keep an eye on, to put

restrictions on, to be aware of the ways in which the conversations in which the time spent of their teen engaged with AI.

And that if they are seeing red flags in their teen, those would be everything from a decrease in their functioning, grades, socializing, their

mood, increased anxiety, increased isolation. If they're seeing those things that concern them, they should be concerned that if their child is

using AI, that AI is involved in some way.

The most important thing, obviously, is if you're seeing warning signs, is that you do take your teen for an evaluation with an actual mental health

professional. That's another problem, right? A.I. doesn't direct you to see a mental health professional most of the time. That would be pretty rare.

So, can OpenAI make changes that really help? I think that remains to be seen. But I think what people need to understand is this is not a

substitute for clinical treatment. It shouldn't be used. It can be harmful not only to somebody who has already a mental health risk, but even

somebody who doesn't.

And you should be aware of the people in your lives and those potential red flags so that you can direct them to the right place. And A.I., at least to

date, isn't the right place.

GOLODRYGA: Psychologically, you know, every few years, we see these incredible advancements in technology. And there are conversations like the

ones that we're having now about kids playing too many video games, kids being on their phones for too long. We didn't know what a smartphone was

decades ago, and now we know one. And -- and then kids seem to be glued to them. And now we have A.I.

Psychologically, the impact from A.I., is it different than other forms of technology in terms of what you're looking out for?

SALTZ: Yes. Because it's more sophisticated, really much more sophisticated, right, than a video game. And because it simulates human

empathy, and I -- it simulates is the important word there, it can draw the human in. That's why that man got so involved in that conversation, making

it more difficult to not only break away, but when you're not using it, believe at some level that you're dealing with, not only a person or an

intimate person, but we assign this omnipotence to it, right? We think it's always right or godlike in some way.

And so, that makes it pervasive in our minds and in our lives. People can become over reliant on A.I. for making all their decisions. That's not good

for a particular subset of people. But I do want to say, there are some instances in which it could be helpful.

Journaling with A.I. Using it under the care of a therapist who assigns very specific things that you can practice as a tool, for example, like

certain cognitive behavioral therapies, very specific things could be used to rehearse or to record.

[12:45:05]

So, there could be some uses that help in this arena. It's just that there are pitfalls that are different from video games or even time spent on the

phone, which believe me, has its own problems that engages you that much more.

GOLODRYGA: Well, it's important to note the constructive uses too because the red flags, the pitfalls, obviously, we want to be talking about that.

But given that this seems to be the new normal that -- that we've been hearing about and now it's here. It's really important to know how they can

work together to help children and teenagers in their most impressionable, informative years.

Dr. Gail Saltz, thank you so much. Good to see you.

SALTZ: Good to see you too.

GOLODRYGA: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: President Trump plans to award Rudy Giuliani the Presidential Medal of Freedom. That is the nation's highest civilian honor. Giuliani was

the mayor of New York City, hailed for revitalizing the city during the 1990s and gained international praise for his response to the September 11

terror attacks.

In recent years, Giuliani was Donald Trump's personal lawyer. And in 2020, he was in charge of the Trump campaign's legal challenges to the election

results.

Now, the announcement comes just days after Giuliani was involved in a car crash in New Hampshire. He's now recovering in the hospital.

And Chicago is bracing for an influx of federal forces. The Trump administration is expected to launch a major immigration enforcement

operation in the city that could begin this week.

The president has also repeatedly threatened to send the National Guard to Chicago to crack down on crime.

Let's get the latest from CNN's Alayna Treene at the White House. And, Alayna, we heard a judge ruled that the president sending in the National

Guard to Los Angeles earlier this summer was deemed illegal. Are we expecting that to delay the president's decision to send in troops to

Chicago at all or no?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: As of now, no. And part of this operation, Bianna, and this is from the reporting that we actually broke

last week when they were preparing some of this, is they plan to begin having ICE personnel and personnel from the Customs and Border Protection

as well as other agency be put into Chicago to deal with this immigration operation.

Now, the question of having National Guard, which this Trump administration has been preparing as well to send to Chicago, they would be more so to

kind of have a peacekeeping operation.

[12:50:00]

Again, similar to what we saw in Los Angeles in the course of our reporting, when I talked to Trump administration officials about this, they

said that really what they are doing in Chicago is modeled after Los Angeles.

But for my conversations today, it does still seem like they're going to have the ICE agents and the CBP agents on the ground. A question, of

course, though is, will they have these troops there? And that's unknown.

But I do believe that the -- for my conversations that this operation is going to move forward, regardless of that ruling. And -- and we'll see

whether or not they move forward with the National Guard troops going as well, because that could potentially set up another legal fight for this

administration.

But one thing I want to make clear is that in the course of my conversations as well with people here at the White House, they said that

there is a clear distinction between what they're going to be -- do see really this operation begin to go into effect on Friday with, you know,

boots on the ground in Chicago on Friday.

And he's saying this is very different from the rhetoric that the president is using and discussing about wanting to have Washington, D.C. and his

crackdown on domestic crime kind of be put into place in Chicago.

Essentially what they're saying is this is all about illegal immigration. That's why they're trying to make the comparison to what we saw in Los

Angeles earlier this summer, not compare it to Washington, D.C.

But despite that, and despite them saying this is not similar to what he's doing here, we are continuing to hear from President Donald Trump

repeatedly, including this morning, talking about wanting to crack down on domestic crime in Chicago and send National Guard troops to Chicago to deal

with crime within this country, not necessarily illegal immigration.

And so a key question, of course, is whether we could see some of that merge this week or if they're going to really keep this to just an

immigration-focused operation, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And we're expected to hear from the president shortly in just a couple of hours. We'll be paying close attention to any

announcements that he makes at that time.

Alayna Treene at the White House for us. Thank you so much.

And we'll be right back with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: So what do IKEA, the Nobel Prize and Pippi Longstocking all have in common? Well, they all define what it means to be Swedish, according to

a cultural heritage list just unveiled by Sweden's government.

It was part of the election manifesto of the right-wing ruling coalition and the list includes books, films, plays and more.

However, some Swedish minority groups and others say the criteria are too narrow and they complain the list is divisive.

[12:55:59]

After months of speculation on who will replace fashion's most famous editor-in-chief, this was a big story, today Anna Wintour has announced a

new top editor at Vogue.

Chloe Malle, the current editor of vogue.com, will step up as Vogue's U.S. head of editorial content, the magazine on Tuesday. And although Wintour

has stepped down as the magazine's editor-in-chief, she will remain on as a global editorial director as well as Conde Nast global chief content

officer.

And actor Graham Greene, best known for his Oscar-nominated performance in "Dances with Wolves," has died. The Canadian First Nations actor starred in

films including "Die Hard with a Vengeance" and "Thunderheart." But his big Hollywood break came when he was cast as Kicking Bird in Kevin Costner's

1990 film about an American Civil War soldier and members of the Lakota Sioux tribe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KICKING BIRD: Tatonka.

LIEUTENANT DUNBAR: Tatonka.

KICKING BIRD: Tatonka.

LIEUTENANT DUNBAR: Tatonka.

KICKING BIRD: Tatonka.

LIEUTENANT DUNBAR: Tatonka. Buffalo. Buffalo.

KICKING BIRD: Tatonka.

LIEUTENANT DUNBAR: Buffalo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: It's fantastic movie. Greene was a pioneer for indigenous actors in Hollywood. His agent said the star died peacefully after a long illness.

Graham Greene dead at the age of 73.

And that does it for this hour of "One World." I'm Bianna Golodryga. Thanks so much for watching. Don't go anywhere. I'll be right back with "Amanpour"

after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END