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One World with Zain Asher

Nationwide Arrests In Federal Gambling Probe; Trump Cancels Meeting With Putin, But Says It May Still Happen; U.S. Sanctions Russia's Two Largest Oil Companies; Foreign Press Association: Israel Is Stalling Entry Of Journalists; CNN Searches For Survivor Of Strike On Alleged Drug Boat; Suzanne Somers Revived Using Artificial Intelligence; Aired 12-1p ET

Aired October 23, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:33]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Players, coaches, and the mafia. It's like out of a Hollywood movie. Some of the world's most famous basketball

players are accused in an investigation into corrupt sports betting.

ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: Second hour of "One World" starts right now. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: It's not thousands of dollars. It's not tens of thousands of dollars. It's not even millions of dollars. We're talking

about tens of millions of dollars in fraud.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: It's a story that has everything. How some of the most prominent names in basketball have found themselves in the crosshairs of the FBI?

GOLODRYGA: The ceasefire is holding, but a key piece of the puzzle is still missing. When will independent journalists be allowed access, being allowed

to assess the damage in Gaza?

Plus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ULF KRISTERSSON, PRIME MINISTER OF SWEDEN: when it comes to the U.S. and all the support for Ukraine, it is there and it is close to the president's

heart and I know this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Talking tough. Donald Trump flexes his muscles on Putin as Sweden moves to arm Ukraine. Will this be enough to get the Russian leader to the

negotiating table?

GOLODRYGA: And later, stranger than fiction, Suzanne Somers' husband is paying tribute to his late wife with an A.I. clone. So if you could do it

yourself, would you? We'll discuss more straight ahead.

Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. You're watching the second hour of "One World."

We begin with a breaking story that feels like an episode from the "Sopranos."

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Short time ago, federal prosecutors announced the arrest of multiple NBA players and coaches accused of being part of a gambling scheme

involving some of New York's most infamous organized crime families. Among those arrested was NBA star Terry Rozier. He is accused of faking injuries

to ensure that bets on his statistics would pay off.

ASHER: Also arrested was NBA Hall of Famer and current Portland Trailblazers' head coach Chauncey Billups. He's accused of helping to rig

high-stakes poker games. Prosecutors say more than 30 people were arrested and that the fraud involves tens of millions of dollars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH NOCELLA, JR., U.S. ATTORNEY, EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Between December 2022 and March 2024. These defendants perpetrated a scream -- a

scheme to defraud by betting on inside, non-public information about NBA athletes and teams.

PATEL: Not only did we crack into the fraud that these perpetrators committed on the grand stage of the NBA, but we also entered and executed a

system of justice against La Casa Nostra to include the Bonanno, Gambino, Genovese, and Lucchese crime families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Joining us now to help explain all of this is CNN law enforcement reporter Mark Morales.

Mark, just talk to us. I mean, these are two major and separate indictments here. Talk to us about the scale of these charges and how significant it is

both in the crime family world here in Mafia families in New York City, but also for the NBA itself.

MARK MORALES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT REPORTER: Right. And as you mentioned, two major indictments, part of one massive investigation. And this case has

everything. You've got a former NBA champion and Hall of Famer, a current NBA player, and four of the five most notorious crime families here in New

York.

Now, in terms of Chauncey Billups, he's the current head coach of the Portland Trailblazers. He is what was used as the face of the card games,

meaning, that they would use him for high rollers, they would get the high rollers, they would sit them next to Chauncey Billups, and they'd be so

enamored that they would be sitting next to a current NBA head coach and a former NBA champion that they would actually forget what was going on

around them.

Now, what was going on around them was a very sophisticated effort to fix this card game. They were using card readers, the shuffling that would

shuffle the deck where they would actually know the cards that were spinning out. They would know the hands that were being played. And they

were able to get millions of dollars from some of these people that were actually playing this card game.

And as you might imagine, because of who's involved, the Gambinos, the Bonannos, the Genovese families, and others, when they didn't pay up, it

was these guys that would go and collect. And you would all know how that would happen. They would use very violent means of it. And that's what

they've been famous for.

[12:05:08]

Now, in the other -- in the other case, you had current NBA Heat -- NBA player from the Miami Heat, Terry Rozier. And he would give information

about other players from other teams so that his group could then play sports bets on how many points a player would score, or how many rebounds

they would get.

It would be sports bets tied to the effort, but they would have inside information as to who would be able to perform on the basketball court.

As an example, Terry Rozier was playing in a game in March 2023, went after about nine minutes. He decided to fake an injury and say, I can't play

anymore. Why that was so critical was that the people in his conspiracy all put up money betting that he would not hit mile markers for points scored

or assists or rebounds. And they collected a lot of money from that. And that was all part of this massive scheme. That's the original question as

to what this means.

You're talking about not only bringing back a case of the -- that would -- that would feature some of these crime families from that we thought were

long gone, but they're clearly not.

We are now talking about another scandal for the NBA. It's not too far that we had an issue with Tim Donaghy, the referee in the NBA, who's fixing

games.

So this is -- depending on how you look at it, another black eye, but at the same time, it's a massive investigation on these two fronts.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Crime families from the past now involved in sophisticated technology where a lot of this went undetected for as long as it did. And

then, of course, superstar NBA players, ingredients for, as we noted, an episode out of the "Sopranos" or a Hollywood movie.

Law enforcement reporter Mark Morales. Thank you so much.

ASHER: All right. We've just heard from Russian President Vladimir Putin, who says the U.S. sanctions are an attempt to put pressure on Moscow,

adding that they would not affect his country's economy. That statement after Donald Trump targeted two of Russia's largest oil companies and

demanded a ceasefire in Ukraine.

He also said Washington would not be sending long-range Tomahawk missiles to Kyiv, but new weapons may still be on the way.

And new NATO member, Sweden, says it will sell up to 150 of its most advanced fighter jets to Ukraine. The leaders of both countries signed a

letter of understanding Wednesday, but details are yet to be determined.

GOLODRYGA: And as Russia continues its strikes on Ukraine, Trump has canceled his proposed meeting with Vladimir Putin. But both he and the U.S.

Secretary of State say that still could happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It didn't feel like we were going to get to the place we have to get, so I canceled it. But we'll do it

in the future.

In terms of honesty, the only thing I can say is every time I speak with Vladimir, I have good conversations, and then they don't go anywhere. They

just don't go anywhere.

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We're always going to be interested in engaging if there's an opportunity to achieve peace. I think the

president has said repeatedly for a number of months now that at some point, he will have to do something if we don't make progress on the peace

deal. Today was the day he decided to do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Moscow, meanwhile, says it's still open to having a conversation.

ASHER: All right. Joining us live now from Berlin is senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen.

So you heard Trump there saying, listen, I've given Vladimir Putin enough chances.

And then now when it comes to him slapping sanctions on two of Russia's largest oil companies, obviously, the hope, I guess, from the U.S. side is

that this is going to push Vladimir Putin to the negotiating table. But we have seen Russia's economy weather this type of storm before.

Walk us through how resilient Russia's economy actually is to this kind of economic pressure.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, you're absolutely right. The Russian economy has been quite resilient.

But that's also due to the fact that obviously the Russians have been very adaptive in the face of these sanctions that have been placed on the

Russian economy.

It's, of course, not just since the Trump administration that sanctions, very heavy sanctions, have been put on the Russian economy, and also on the

Russian oil and other hydrocarbon sector as well. And still, the Russians are -- are managing to make due. And that's certainly something that they

hope they'll be able to do once again with this new set of sanctions.

Although I think they do believe that these sanctions could have an effect, even though Vladimir Putin might be trying to downplay that certainly with

these two very large companies, Rosneft and Lukoil, that could certainly be an issue for the Russians where at least in the meantime, they'll have to

start trying to adapt in different ways.

Now, one of the things, of course, that they have done is that they are still able to export some of their gas and also oil to countries like India

and China on a large scale. You know, we're already hearing that some Indian companies are sort of scaling back.

But the Chinese have certainly still been buying Russian hydrocarbons. And that's definitely something where the Russian see a strategic partnership

that has only been strengthened over the past couple of -- of years.

[12:10:05]

One of the other things that's also going on, however, here in Europe is that the Europeans are saying that they want to do their part now as well

and want to outlaw any sort of purchases of Russian gas in the European Union by 2027.

One of the interesting things that's been going on since Russia's full of - - on invasion of Ukraine is that while many countries have significantly scaled back or completely stopped importing Russian oil and gas, others

have not. And 20 percent of the gas that comes here to Europe still comes from Russia.

So those are certainly things where the U.S.'s European allies are also trying to put some pressure on the Russians as well.

But at the same time, you're absolutely right. The Russians certainly, in the past, have weathered the storm of sanctions.

One of the things that I've heard from the Kremlin, by the way, in the past on all of this is they say that, yes, if there are additional sanctions on

Russian oil and gas companies on the Russian economy, of course, that will have an effect. And of course, that'll make it more difficult.

But the Russians do believe that the economy that they have, and this comes from the Kremlin spokesmen, Dmitry Peskov, that their economy is simply too

big to be isolated. And therefore, they believe they are going to get by.

And, of course, one of the things that they have said is they also want to continue what they still call their special military operation until what

they say their aims in that operation are fully achieved, guys.

ASHER: All right. Fred Pleitgen, live for us in Berlin. Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Joining us also from Berlin is the director of the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Center, Alexander Gabuev. His team of analysts is

focused on the impact of the war in Ukraine. Alex, Sasha, it is good to see you.

So, what's notable here is this is the most direct punitive measure that we've seen President Trump take in his second term against Russia. And

going after and sanctioning its first and second largest oil and gas companies. President Biden sanctioned, I believe, number three and four.

As we noted, a significant portion of oil and gas sales do go to fund the economy. And then this war, I believe, a quarter of those sales do. All of

that considered, we do know that Russia has been able to circumvent some of these sanctions as well.

There's a big focus on whether there will be secondary sanctions against other countries, specifically China.

But in the meantime, just in response to these sanctions, what is the immediate effect in maybe even shorter, longer term effect of blacklisting

these two major oil behemoths in Russia?

ALEXANDER GABUEV, DIRECTOR, CARNEGIE RUSSIA EURASIA CENTER: I don't think that there is an immediate shock. And the devil is really in the details of

how the secondary sanctions will be implemented, whether Team Trump will really go after some of the entities, particularly in China, if there are

big state-owned companies or if there are involved in clearing transactions, because all of the Russia-China trade doesn't touch U.S.

dollar or U.S. jurisdiction.

And then how smart and sophisticated Russians are in circumventing creating various shale companies and the regime. We see that the prices of oil have

gone up on the news. The Russians are buckling up, as far as I know. Everybody involved in the decision making is back in Moscow. And they have

a string of meetings, including in the Kremlin, on wrapping up their contingency planning and putting them into actions.

And then I think that the second part of the Russian response will be trying to put more pressure on Ukraine on the battlefield, particularly at

the most vulnerable time where Ukraine is going into the winter, and the Russians are intensifying their horrible air strike campaign in order to

knock out electricity and heat for Ukrainians it is.

ASHER: And just in terms of other options, I mean, obviously, as -- as Bianna was just mentioning, the Russians have been able to sort of

circumvent the effect of these sanctions. But the Treasury did say that they are prepared to take further action, if necessary, to -- to -- to

support President Donald Trump's effort to end this war. Also, the Treasury talked about encouraging allies to join them in this effort.

If these particular sanctions do not work, what other economic sanctions can be placed on Russia? What are the -- what are the tricks does the

Treasury have up its sleeve?

GABUEV: I think first is really the enforcement of existing sanctions. We know that since arrival of the Trump administration, there have been

various layoffs, including in Treasury, the State Department sanctions bureau. And the U.S. government is in shutdown mode. So how many people are

able to man the sanctions is really becoming crucial for their efficiency.

But then there are still a lot of Russian banks on the SWIFT system. So you can look at the addition of the new Russian banks and go after them and

just remove them. There are -- there is ability for Russia to sell not only oil, but metals and fertilizers. The U.S. is still buying uranium from

Russia.

[12:15:06]

So there are smaller streams of revenue other than oil and gas that you can target in a sophisticated way, hoping that this compiled effect will

finally knock Russian economy out.

Problem is the timeline. I think the Russian economy has and the budget has ammunition to withstand the war for at least another 12 months. So while

trying to choke it off, you need to have patient and know that the effect will materialize later, but not -- will not be immediate.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. The Russian economy is expected to slow significantly throughout the remainder of this year and next year as well. But as so many

like yourself have noted at this point, this is an existential war for Vladimir Putin, and thus, it would take a lot more than just these

sanctions to stop him at this point.

Alexander Gabuev, good to see you. Thank you so much.

GABUEV: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: And still to calm on "One World."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: There are very few boats traveling underwater. So now they'll come in by land at a lesser to a lesser extent and they will be hit on land

also.

We have legal authority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: The U.S. military strikes two boats in the Pacific expanding its campaign against alleged drug trafficking.

Plus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN JORDAN, REPORTER (voice-over): What fears do you have if this goes away?

DESTINEE DOONAN, MOTHER OF THREE-YEAR-OLD BATTLING LEUKEMIA: We'll have to make some sacrifices. I don't like having to ask for help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Ahead, more from this Wisconsin mother who says the U.S. government shutdown is threatening a critical food program that her son who's battling

leukemia, by the way, relies on.

GOLODRYGA: And it's been a business for 100 years, but General Motors is looking to the future. The automaker is promising new technology where

drivers can actually take their eyes off of the road. I'm not quite ready for that yet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: All right. Top American officials have been tag teaming in and out of Israel in an intense diplomatic effort to safeguard the fragile Israel-

Hamas ceasefire in Gaza.

GOLODRYGA: The U.S. Secretary of State flew in hours ago just as Vice President J.D. Vance wrapped up his visit. Marco Rubio meets Israeli Prime

Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other officials to ensure the deal does not fall apart.

Before Rubio departed the United States, he acknowledged the challenges in keeping the agreement afloat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:20:05]

RUBIO: Hamas remains in danger, not just to Israel but to the people of Gaza. That's -- that's why we need an international security force on the

ground to stabilize that and prevent them from doing some of the things we've seen.

So every day is going to bring challenges like that. But it's also going to bring opportunities. So we've got to take it. You know, we've got to deal

with the challenges and make sure they don't unravel this.

So I'm not worried about it, but we're aware that these are challenges that we have to confront.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Meantime in Gaza, funerals are being held for the dozens of dead Palestinians returned by Israel as part of the exchange relatives and Hamas

officials say that some bodies are unrecognizable and show signs of abuse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAMI AL-FARRA, PALESTINIAN WHOSE COUSIN IS MISSING (through translator): The signs of torture and brutal treatment on the body did not allow us to

tell whether it was him or not.

Our message and our demands to the world are to provide us with the means by which we can determine whether this person belongs to us or to someone

else. The resources are weak. I believe they are nonexistent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Israel says that it adheres to international law and denies any report of abuse.

ASHER: In the meantime, the Israeli Supreme Court is once again delaying a hearing on allowing independent journalists to enter Gaza. The High Court

has given the government 30 more days to come up with a position.

GOLODRYGA: Foreign journalists have been barred for more than two years now.

ASHER: CNN's Jeremy Diamond joins us live now from Jerusalem.

So, Jeremy, the Foreign Press Association is essentially saying, listen, this ban essentially limits and violates freedom of press, freedom of

expression. But Israel has said multiple times this is an issue of security. Walk us through it, Jeremy.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, I should first just lay out that I am a member of the board of the Foreign Press Association, and

just laying that out, out front.

And we are indeed disappointed, as the Foreign Press Association, in this decision by the Israeli Supreme Court to give the government yet another

30-day extension in order to give us their stance on the entry of journalists into Gaza.

The Foreign Press Association has been pressing for nearly two years now for journalists to get access to Gaza. We have endured repeated delays by -

- requested by the Israeli government, authorized in many cases by the Israeli Supreme Court in order for us to arrive at some kind of judgment

here.

And after claiming for many months that security was the issue, even now during the ceasefire, the Israeli government, yet again, requesting another

delay on providing a response regarding the situation in Gaza and the possibility of journalists entering.

It's important to note that we have been barred from entering independently into Gaza for two years now. We have been able to access Gaza through, you

know, limited military embeds into the Gaza Strip where, you know, access is limited, what we can see and hear, and actually do inside the Gaza Strip

is also limited.

And so we at the Foreign Press Association certainly hope that the Israeli Supreme Court will not authorize any further delays and will ultimately

rule in our favor once they actually hear the government's position.

ASHER: All right. Jeremy Diamond, thank you.

All right. The U.S. government shutdown is now in its fourth week.

GOLODRYGA: Hundreds of thousands of government workers are off the job and many others are working without pay. Politicians on both sides of the aisle

continue to point the finger at each other.

Meantime, Americans in need of assistance are struggling. One Wisconsin mother of a three-year-old boy battling leukemia says the shutdown is

threatening a critical food program that she relies on.

Reporter Ben Jordan with CNN-affiliate WTMJ has her story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOONAN: Is that a vampire?

JORDAN (voice-over): For a three-year-old battling cancer.

DOONAN: What's the ghost say?

JORDAN (voice-over): Destinee Doonan wants her son, Kade, to focus on Halloween. Not what's left in the fridge, as food share funding could be

paused the following day if the government shutdown continues.

DOONAN: We get $289 a month, but it helps a lot because currently, I get Social Security. You know, because Kade has leukemia.

JORDAN (voice-over): Destinee says Kade's leukemia diagnosis means he spends days and sometimes months at a time at Children's Hospital for

chemotherapy and treatment.

DOONAN: In March, I started considering, you know, going back to work and then he started having seizures and his O2 went down to 50 and he almost

passed away.

And then in June and July, I started working and they just couldn't accommodate his appointments.

JORDAN (voice-over): Unable to work, Destinee says she currently lives off $900 a month and half of it goes toward rent. She says food share isn't

just a choice for her and Kade.

DOONAN: I usually get milk, eggs. I get cheese.

JORDAN (voice-over): It's a necessity.

JORDAN: What fears do you have if this goes away?

[12:25:00]

DOONAN: We'll have to make some sacrifices. I don't like having to ask for help. And then, you know, I grew up in an foster care so I don't have like

a village. So it's -- it's hard.

JORDAN (voice-over): Food share is provided to 12 percent of Wisconsinites living at or below twice the federal poverty income level since it's 100

percent federally funded.

Governor Tony Evers called on the Trump administration Wednesday to use U.S. Department of Agriculture dollars currently available to extend food

assistance into November.

Evers' office tells me he alone doesn't have the power to use state dollars to temporarily fill the gap saying, quote, the legislature would need to

pass a bill appropriating funding to do so.

BILL SCHMITT, ROOTED AND RISING FOOD PANTRY: We're looking for our elected officials to put the people first.

JORDAN (voice-over): Bill Schmidt runs a food pantry in Milwaukee called Rooted and Rising.

With already growing demand and reliance, he fears the nonprofit won't be able to assist everyone in need if food share is paused.

SCHMITT: We will certainly step up and do the best that we can, but we are not going to be able to fill that entire gap.

DOONAN: Even the food banks are starting to already struggle.

JORDAN (voice-over): With all of the unknowns Kade faces in his future, Destinee says she wants others to recognize why the program is so important

for people in her situation.

JORDAN: What do you hope people take away from this story?

DOONAN: Just to not be so judgmental. It's embarrassing the way it is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:08]

ASHER: All right. President Donald Trump says he believes the U.S. has legal authority to launch strikes in international waters when targeting

drug cartels.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: There are very few boats traveling on the water right now. Actually, that includes fishing boats, that includes any other kind of boat. But

there are very few boats traveling on the water. So now they'll come in by land at a lesser -- to a lesser extent. And they will be hit on land also.

We have legal authority. We're -- we're allowed to do that. And if we do by land, we may go back to Congress.

We will hit them very hard when they come in by land. And they haven't experienced that yet. But now, we're totally prepared to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Those comments come as the U.S. Secretary of Defense announced military strikes on two separate boats in the Eastern Pacific, killing five

people. That makes nine known strikes by the U.S. military since the start of September.

GOLODRYGA: The bulk of the strikes happening in the Caribbean, flaring tensions between Venezuela and the United States. Venezuelan President

Nicolas Maduro says that he now has 5,000 Russian short-range missiles set in key defensive positions.

The U.S. struck at least two other vessels last week in the Caribbean, one of which did not kill everyone on board. CNN traveled to Ecuador to try to

find one of the survivors.

GOLODRYGA: Our David Culver filed this exclusive report before the news of the most recent strike in the Eastern Pacific.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In this small Ecuadorian coastal town, nearly everyone knows someone who's left for work

and never come back.

CULVER: This is all her brother, Andres' clothes, the mattress where he slept up until nearly a year ago. She says he was desperate for work, that

he was concerned about providing for his six kids and he said he needed to go to work. And like many in this small coastal town, he is a fisherman.

The thing is, and this is what she found odd, he left behind all of his fishing gear. She says he's a good person and that was just trying to make

ends meet.

President Trump says your brother is a terrorist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

CULVER (voice-over): Her brother, Andres Tufino Chila, isn't a stranger to U.S. law enforcement. Court records show he was arrested, convicted and

jailed in 2020 for smuggling drugs off Mexico's coast before being deported.

Now, after surviving the latest U.S. strike on a suspected drug vessel in the Caribbean, he's believed to be back in Ecuador and free.

Officials here say they have no evidence he broke local laws and released him. Yet, his case has put a spotlight on a broader question, who and what

exactly are these U.S. strikes trying to stop?

Since early September, the U.S. has carried out at least seven strikes off Venezuela's coast. The Trump administration says they're about saving

American lives from drug overdoses. Yet, most U.S. overdose deaths aren't from cocaine, they're from fentanyl, largely produced in Mexico and

smuggled over the border, often by U.S. citizens.

It's not clear where exactly the U.S. has been targeting suspected drug running boats. But our analysis of U.S. military flight data shows dozens

of surveillance flights just north of Venezuela in the Caribbean.

Far from Ecuador's shores, where cocaine from Colombia in the north and Peru in the south, pours in before moving out to sea, using Ecuador

essentially as a transit hub to the Pacific. This is how about 70 percent of the world's cocaine supply gets to the U.S. and Europe and beyond.

And the drug runners, the ones risking it all at sea, mostly are not gang members. They're fishermen, often seen as expendable by the gangs that

control them. Ecuadorian officials say they're also cracking down, even with limited resources.

Still, many here say the trade feels impossible to escape.

CULVER: When you ask them about the amount of involvement in narco and drug trafficking, some are hesitant to disclose it.

He says as he looks at it, probably 25 to 30 percent are working in illicit drug trafficking activity.

CULVER (voice-over): Some say they have no choice.

In 2023, gangs ambushed a fishing village in the north, targeting those who refused to pay extortion. Nine were killed, dozens wounded.

Others say the money makes it worth the risk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We put a box in the hull of the boat to hide the drugs. As a fisherman, I could make $300 a month. But doing an illegal run up to

just off the coast of Mexico, I can make $30,000 to $60,000 a month. It's good money.

CULVER (voice-over): If you survive the trip.

[12:35:03]

Since 2024, Solanda Bermeo's group has documented more than 2,800 Ecuadorian fishermen missing, dead, or detained abroad. These women, some

two dozen who wanted to share their stories with us, know their loved ones broke the law, but they also know why.

We don't have work. We don't have any way to support ourselves, she says.

As the U.S. strikes continue far from these shores, the ones caught in the crossfire are rarely cartel leaders, but the men who take the risk for

them.

CULVER: She says she really wants to talk to her brother, Andres. She's grateful that at least he's alive, especially considering her other two

brothers are both in prison, one here in Ecuador, the other in the U.S. Both of them accused of being fishermen turned drug runners.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: And time now for "The Exchange." Joining us live now is Leon Panetta. He's been Defense Secretary and CIA Director under President

Barack Obama and Bill Clinton's White House Chief of Staff. Thank you so much, sir, for being with us.

Obviously, the moral and the legal rationale of these strikes have, of course, been questioned. With all of your years of experience, what should

be the clear criteria for when a vessel qualifies as valid -- as a valid military target, especially in the counter narcotics domain?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, as always in these matters, there's the right way to do things and there's the wrong way to do

things.

The right way to do this would be to present a strategy to the American people about just what exactly is the United States' goal here. Is it

regime change? Is it to go after drug traffickers? Are there really terrorists that -- that we're going after? We're not sure. We're not sure

right now.

So there -- there needs to be a casemate for just exactly what are we doing. It needs to be presented to the Congress. The Congress needs to

provide the authority that the president needs in order to take action. And very frankly, I think the United States ought to be working with our

allies.

The real issue here is, are we dealing with law enforcement? Or are we dealing with something else?

The problem is that the administration has not presented any clear evidence as to who is involved. And for that reason, there are a lot of questions as

to whether or not what the administration is doing is legal.

GOLODRYGA: As we noted, you have worn multiple hats. You've all been defense secretary. Also a CIA director. We know that the president has

signed off on covert CIA operations inside of Venezuela itself.

Do you think -- I know you said ultimately that the -- the president and this administration need to present their plans to the people here in the

United States and to Congress.

From everything that you're seeing though, does this suggest to you that perhaps regime change is the ultimate goal or at least one of them?

PANETTA: Well, that's -- that's the problem. And frankly, that's what has to be made clear. What exactly is our objective? If it's regime change,

that's a very different approach than simply trying to stop drug traffickers. But we don't know the answer to that.

Look, I think it makes sense to be able to use covert operations. I was director of the CIA. And I did covert operations pursuant to orders by the

president. But those orders are to be classified and kept confidential. That's why it's a covert operation.

For the president to then announce that he's doing a covert action undermines the basic mission of conducting covert operations in another

country.

So it -- it's a very confused policy. And it raises a lot of questions about whether or not we're on the right track or the wrong track.

ASHER: What would be the right way if the administration has legitimate concerns about drug boats headed to the U.S.? What would be the right way

for them to go about targeting this particular issue?

PANETTA: Well, you know, the issue is whether this is a law enforcement issue or whether this is something else. If it's a law enforcement issue,

when we deal with drug traffickers, we have to, like everything else, when we go after criminals, we have to present the evidence. We have to make

sure that we are making a strong case that we are dealing with criminals and their actions.

[12:40:13]

And we have to be transparent in terms of what we're trying to accomplish. None of that applies here. They're simply getting -- giving an order to

blow these ships out of the water.

And we don't know, frankly. We haven't seen any evidence regarding who's on board, what are they carrying, what are they involved in. And that's what's

raising serious questions with Congress. And I think it's raising serious questions with America.

Look, nobody questions the fact that we ought to go after drug traffickers. But as I said, there's a right way to do that and a wrong way to do it. And

I'm afraid right now, the administration is taking the wrong path.

GOLODRYGA: Can I ask you about another significant development over the last 24 hours? And that is the president taking the most punitive actions

he has thus far in his second term against Russia and its war on Ukraine, sanctioning the country's two largest oil companies.

We heard Russia respond by saying that they are defended against these type of measures right now and that their economy can circumvent and withstand

these sanctions.

Curious your reaction here. And specifically, if you think this is an opportunity now for Europe, which also leveled, I think it's 19th set of

sanctions against Russia to possibly view this as a sign that they can step up even more and start utilizing the hundreds of billions of dollars in

frozen Russian assets now to help fund this war.

PANETTA: Well, look, it's been true for a long time that the United States and our NATO allies have to stand up to Putin. Putin is a tyrant. Putin is

somebody who invaded another country, continues to invade another country. You cannot trust Putin.

And so it's always been clear that the United States has to take actions to basically make clear to Putin that he will not succeed in Ukraine.

I'm glad that the president took steps with regards to sanctions. They were late in coming. I wish he had done this a while ago. But I -- I -- I think

this is the right thing to do to apply these sanctions.

What I would also recommend to the president is that he seriously consider providing more sophisticated weapons to the Ukrainians so that they can

properly defend themselves from these actions that Russia is taking.

We -- we can build a unified front against Putin. And that's what's needed right now. If we wanted to achieve peace, Putin has to be convinced that

there is no way he can succeed. And the only way to do that is to make clear we're going to take actions to tell Putin, you are -- you are not

going to be able to win.

What you need to do is to freeze the situation as it is and engage in negotiations. But Putin will not listen to words, he listens to force.

ASHER: Yes. One of the things that President Zelenskyy was hoping to get about a week or so ago when he visited Trump, when he sat down with Trump

was, of course, those Tomahawk missiles.

Just walk us through what sort of difference you think Tomahawks could have actually made on the battlefield in terms of moving the needle one way or

another. How effective could they be?

PANETTA: Well, look, we have -- we have a lot of advanced missiles. They are using some of the missiles we're already providing.

I do think the Tomahawks would represent another step towards a sophisticated approach to going after targets, particularly in Russia.

If I were the president, he had mentioned the possibility of providing Tomahawks. I would say to Putin, Tomahawks are back on the table. You need

to know that. And therefore, that's why you need to stop fighting.

ASHER: All right. Leon Panetta. Thank you so much for your time, sir. We are definitely appreciative of it.

We'll be right back with more after this short break.

GOLODRYGA: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:45:04]

GOLODRYGA: All right. Let's get a check on how the U.S. markets are doing right now. Looks like they're pretty flat green arrows. But the Dow up a

quarter of a percentage point there. Over 100 points. The NASDAQ, nearly up one percent. The S&P 500, up a little more than half a percentage point.

This is your "Business Breakout."

ASHER: And oil prices are on the rise amid global supply fears. That's after the U.S. imposed sanctions on Russia's two largest oil companies,

Rosneft and Lukoil. Prices hit a two-month high early on Thursday.

Sanctions against Russia could reduce the amount of oil on the global market since it is the world's second largest producer.

GOLODRYGA: General Motors says that it will introduce eyes off driving on new Cadillac --Cadillac Escalades starting from 2028.

The new system lets passengers read a book, for instance, and take their eyes off the road. G.M. hopes to be the first to make personal self-driving

cars a mainstream hit.

ASHER: And Google has just dropped a program that helps boost women in tech. It was called Women Techmakers and has been losing support for a

while now.

The end of Women Techmakers is another sign that the tech giant is unwinding its diversity programs which face political pressure.

GOLODRYGA: While the '70s icon is being given a cutting-edge revival, the husband of actress Suzanne Somers says that he's been working on an A.I.

clone of his wife who died in 2023.

Something the star had been talking about with the computer scientist since back in the' 80s, according to Somers husband, Alan Hamel.

ASHER: He reportedly shared a demonstration earlier this year saying quite simply, it was Suzanne.

GOLODRYGA: Clare Duffy is following the story from New York.

So for those who might find this a bit odd, as we've noted there in the introduction, it's something that Somers' husband says that they worked on

together. It's something that she supported. Tell us more about what they actually did.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yes. It is interesting right to hear that this was something she was on board with before she died.

Alan Hamel saying that the couple talked with the computer science and writer, Ray Kurzweil, about this years ago.

And now, they've made this possible by training this A.I. twin on her 27 books, hundreds of interviews that she's done in the past. And he says it's

now hard for him to tell the difference between the real Suzanne that he knew and this A.I. replica of her that he's created.

Take a listen to what he said about his first experience using this A.I. twin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN HAMEL, SUZANNE SOMERS' HUSBAND: I talked to her for two minutes and it was a little odd. And then after about two or three minutes, I totally

forgot I was talking to her twin. I was talking to a robot and it was amazing. Really amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DUFFY: Now, this is a growing trend. It's obviously new technology, but we are seeing this uptick in people trying to recreate loved ones who have

passed using A.I. And you can understand the sort of pull of this. You know, so many of us have had that experience where you wish you could go

back and have another conversation with someone who's passed.

[12:50:15]

But I will note a word of caution on this. I spoke with one woman, young woman, who lost her father at an early age. And she tried to do this,

create an A.I. replica of her late father. And she said that it didn't go well. The A.I. hallucinated memories that it said they'd had together that

weren't real. And she said it actually ended up affecting her real-life memories of her father.

And so I think, obviously, everybody will have a different experience of this. But I do think it's going to be really interesting to watch how this

technology develops.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. No doubt.

Clare Duffy, thank you so much. Really fascinating.

We'll be right back with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: All right. Pope Leo said a prayer with Britain's King Charles today, marking the first time in 500 years of Pope and a British monarch have

actually prayed together.

The historic moment happened during King and Queen's historic state visit to the Vatican where they met the pontiff for the very first time.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. The prayer took place during mass, which Pope Leo and the Church of England's Archbishop of York presided over.

The joint prayer is meant to symbolize the deepening bonds between Catholics and Anglicans.

ASHER: All right. She is 92 years old and can run 200 meters in less than 50. This is your future, by the way.

GOLODRYGA: I hope so. I hope so.

ASHER: Emma Mazzenga is being studied by scientists to understand how the full record -- full world record holder continues to dazzle crowds and

leave the competition to dust.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Emma hails from Verona, Italy, and says even after running for decades, she still feels tense before each race. Now that's important,

those nerves and butterflies.

CNN's Antonia --

ASHER: This is you, Bianna. It's more than me. We're looking into the future.

GOLODRYGA: You know what, from your lips, I hope to run and until I'm that age. Antonia Mortensen caught up with the marvelous Mazzenga.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANTONIA MORTENSEN, CNN FIELD PRODUCER: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: What would be your advice for others who want to be or stay fit like you?

EMMA MAZZENGA, 92-YEAR-OLD ITALIAN ELITE SPRINTER: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: I would say that first of all, check the diet. And then do constant physical activity. The physical activity in particular which is

quite challenging, is good not only for the body but also the spirit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:55:59]

GOLODRYGA: Look at her. I love that story. It's always so inspiring.

ASHER: Look at her go. I mean, I didn't even know if I can run that fast.

GOLODRYGA: You can do it. Go run together.

ASHER: Imagine racing with her. Please.

GOLODRYGA: That does it for "One World." I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: I'm Zain Asher. Appreciate you watching. "Amanpour" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END

END