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One World with Zain Asher

Marco Rubio Testifies At U.S. Senate Hearing On Venezuela; Palestinian Bedouins Leave West Bank Citing Harassment; How Teachings Of Stoicism Could Help In Turbulent Times; Aired 12-1p ET

Aired January 28, 2026 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:15:38]

ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. You've just been listening to U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio speaking before the Senate Foreign Relations

Committee, essentially answering questions from both sides of the aisle, both Democrats and Republicans about what the U.S.'s long-term strategy is

in Venezuela, post the capture of Nicolas Maduro about three weeks ago.

[12:20:59]

The conversation and the questions have certainly been wide-ranging, ranging from the disbursement rather of oil revenues from the country, to

the role of the opposition, to the possibility of free and fair elections, to the role of Delcy Rodriguez, from this point onwards, who is the new

person in charge of Venezuela post the capture of Nicolas Maduro and also Maria Corina Machado, who the president said, has simply did not have

enough support to be installed as the leader of the country.

I do want to go to Stefano Pozzebon who has been listening to this from Bogota, Colombia.

So, Stefano, we've been listening to this for about two hours or so since it started, listening to Marco Rubio take questions here. Based on what you

have heard, and obviously you've been following the story very closely, how much evidence has there been so far today that the U.S. really did have a

full, detailed, fully worked out, comprehensive plan about what would happen and what their long-term strategy was for Venezuela after the

capture of Nicolas Maduro versus the response being simply reactive? Just give us your take on that.

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think that the reaction definitely characterized the first few days straight after the -- the

operation to remove Nicolas Maduro from power.

And it's interesting, for example, that in those two hours of -- of a long deposition to Congress, I have about three pages of -- of notes in front of

my eyes. Well, in those three hours, yes, there is the -- the -- the understanding that Nicolas Maduro was somehow involved into drug

trafficking.

But we understand that the reason why the United States went after him was primarily geopolitical and to remove somebody that had been and Rubio

stressed about it, indicted by both a democratic administration on the Biden, and also by the Trump administration.

What I think was novel in this hearing is that it is the first time that we're hearing from Marco Rubio himself what is now, as of currently today,

end of January, the long-term strategy in Venezuela.

And Marco Rubio, for the first time, detailed what he called a three-phase plan, talking about stabilization of the country first, a recovery, and

then ultimately a transition to democracy.

I think it was very frank and blunt, the Secretary of State in saying that he's not satisfied with the status quo right now in Venezuela. He's seen

the old associates of Nicolas Maduro, and in particular, Nicolas Maduro's old deputy president, Vice President Delcy Rodriguez, who is currently the

acting president of Venezuela, still steering the country and still in charge in Caracas.

However, he says what was needed at that time straight after the -- the operation to remove Maduro was to stabilize the country.

And that is why, for example, when there is the conversation about oil and the money who is handling the money that is coming from the proceeds of the

sale of the Venezuela oil, Rubio did admit that they transferred a batch of $300 million that we had reported before in the past and that happened

about two weeks ago, Zain.

He said that that money will probably be audited afterward. They didn't have the time to come up with a full structure in making sure that that

money would not be handled by a government official.

However, he said that was needed to stabilize the country. There were -- there was, of course, the risk that Venezuela could descend into anarchy

with migrants heading towards the Colombian border or the Brazilian border. We had to prevent that.

And that is why we're still in the first phase of stabilization of Venezuela. And democracy could come afterward. Hopefully, it will come

afterward. Of course, hopefully, for the Venezuelan people, primarily, Zain.

ASHER: All right. Stefano Pozzebon, live for us there. Thank you so much.

We'll be back on the other side of this break with a little bit more analysis from Marco Rubio's testimony there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:42]

ASHER: All right. Back to our top story. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is testifying right now before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee

about the operation in Venezuela earlier this month that essentially deposed Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Rubio has taken questions

about Cuba, about Iran and about NATO as well.

Let's bring in CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger.

One of the big headlines here, David, is really just talking about what happens to Venezuela's oil revenues now that the U.S. is going to control

them.

Marco Rubio there essentially saying that the U.S. will sell oil from Venezuela at market rate, not at a discounted rate, that it would go to a

bank account and that the money would essentially allow Venezuelans to buy a lot of their necessities from the United States, essentially from an

American companies. And then some of the proceeds would also be used to benefit, excuse me, the Venezuelan people.

Just talk to us about some of the pitfalls that you see with that particular plan.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it's an interesting plan and basically it makes Venezuela completely dependent on

the United States.

In other words, they couldn't choose to go off and buy from a Chinese supplier because they thought they were getting a better deal. He mentioned

Huawei at one point, the telecommunications giant. It also makes them completely dependent on the U.S. for consumer goods.

So essentially, the money as he's describing it, and this was all a little bit vague, would sit in American bank account so that it couldn't be

subject to graft in Venezuela. And then they would draw on it as a -- as a reserve.

Now, it's not clear at all, yet, that this is actually a legal structure. And you heard some of the Democrats on the committee saying that they

wanted to raise questions about it, but they haven't even seen a sort of on paper description of it yet.

ASHER: And another thing that sort of continued to come up a few times during this hearing was this idea of the irony of Delcy Rodriguez's role in

all of this.

I mean, obviously, if you are going to remove Nicolas Maduro because he is a dictator and he is part of a very repressive and oppressive regime, but

then you choose to leave in his vice president who, as Senator Jeanne Shaheen talked about, has also been accused of a prominent role in the drug

trade in Venezuela as well, not to mention also having a role in -- in the -- the so-called repressive regime too.

Explain to us the pitfalls of that and the U.S.'s strategy. I mean, one senator also talked about this idea of, I think it's -- it was Tim Kaine

that actually mentioned Maria Corina Machado and Trump saying that he simply had or didn't believe that she necessarily had the respect or

support within the country in order to install her as leader.

Obviously, it would be very difficult to essentially install the opposition leader without any kind of elections. So, there are so many pitfalls with

that plan as well, but also the idea of keeping the same regime, the same administration in has its problems as well. Give us your take on that.

SANGER: So the secretary, as you heard, was, you know, pretty aggressive in his testimony. He was arguing back and forth with his critics like he's a

former senator. He -- he ran this committee so he knows a lot about what this is all about.

[12:30:08]

But he's in a tough spot on this one. What they essentially did was decapitate the government, take out Maduro and his wife and leave everyone

else in place, including military intelligence official who is considered to be one of the worst actors in Venezuela, including other members of the

government who the U.S. has charged in the past were corrupt.

Why did they do it this way? Because they thought that this leadership had the best chance of actually following American instructions and getting

things done.

Now, you heard the acting president, Ms. Rodriguez, argue in recent days that she's a little bit tired of taking instructions from the U.S., but I

think it's been clear from the U.S. that if she stops taking those instructions, they may come in and remove her as well. It's not a

comfortable place to be.

Why did they do this? Because they were determined not to renew the mistake the U.S. made in Iraq, where they took apart all of Saddam Hussein's

existing Ba'ath Party infrastructure. And then there was nothing there.

And there are some people who think that this administration overlearned those lessons and actually needed to put in place the group that won the

election in 2024, which would be Ms. Machado's party.

ASHER: All right. David Sanger, live for us. Thank you. Appreciate it, David.

All right. Still to come here on "One World," packing up to abandon their West Bank home, Palestinian Bedouins say they simply have no choice. We'll

explain after the break.

Also ahead, mind over matter. We'll take a breather in the chaos of a constant new cycle and help you deal with the pressure and the anxiety that

you may be feeling of everything that's going on. Our timeout segment, just ahead too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:35:10]

ASHER: All right. There is heartache in the West Bank where Palestinian Bedouins say they're being forced out of their village due to harassment

and violence.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond brings us their story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This isn't just the sound of a home being taken apart, it's an entire community being

erased. Mattresses are gathered and piled high before being packed into cars. Security cameras that fail to deter Israeli settlers are removed.

After decades on this land the last family in the Palestinian Bedouin community is being forced out and the uprooted take stock of all they're

about to lose and why.

Suleiman Ghawanmeh points out the four Israeli settler outposts that have made life here impossible. He is besieged and not just by settlers.

"We didn't get to this place because a shepherd or a settler attacked us, no. The issue is bigger than that. The shepherd is a tool, a means of the

occupation," he says.

For years, residents and activists say these settlers have carried out a campaign of intimidation with impunity. We saw some of them here two weeks

earlier. Goats and camels brought to graze on privately owned Palestinian land. Israeli soldiers standing idly by.

Palestinian residents say settlers have stolen hundreds of sheep, cut electric cables, and blocked their access to water.

DIAMOND: This is all that's left of what was once a thriving Palestinian Bedouin community here. More than 100 families, some 700 people altogether,

and now, they've had to abandon this area.

This is what is happening across the West Bank. Dozens of Bedouin communities have been displaced over the course of the last two-plus years.

And activists say that this is what could happen to all Palestinian herding communities in the West Bank should those actions by Israeli settlers

continue to go unchecked.

DIAMOND (voice-over): The impact on those being uprooted is difficult to put into words.

DIAMOND: It's gone.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Pieces of lives lived still scattered all about.

Standing in what was once his home, Suleiman begins to explain how difficult this all is. "Enough," he says. That's about all he can muster.

He is overwhelmed with emotion.

Suleiman's brother and sister-in-law's house has also been stripped down.

Kitchen, living room, her children's bedroom. Muntaha (ph) can still see her home as it once was. "All my memories are here," she says. "I've been

here since I got married."

DIAMOND: So we're driving up to the settler community now, which is part of the group of outposts that have been harassing this Palestinian community

of Ras Ein al-Auja. We're going to see if we can ask them a few questions.

DIAMOND (voice-over): We introduce ourselves to the first settler we see. "We don't accept journalists," he tells me, before ushering us away.

DIAMOND: You can't tell us what happened? We just want to understand why. The Palestinians here are being forced to leave.

That's it? No answers to our questions?

DIAMOND (voice-over): But the next man isn't any more willing to answer our questions. He starts filming us and then they call the police.

DIAMOND: Obviously, they're not interested in giving us their point of view or explaining what the Palestinians say have been attacks on them over the

course of the last two years.

DIAMOND (voice-over): In what remains of Ras Ein al-Auja, the departing residents are setting fire to what they are leaving behind, a final act of

defiance for a community overpowered but unbroken.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Ras Ein al-Auja, the West Bank.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:06]

ASHER: Africa's push towards a circular economy could be worth hundreds of billions of dollars a year by the end of the decade, with textiles leading

the way, and that's according to the African Development Bank.

In this week's "Africa Insider," we'll show you how designers are turning waste into opportunity.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OLUSOLA IDOWU, COUNTRY COORDINATOR NIGERIA, FASHION REVOLUTION: There are three prongs when we're talking about sustainable fashion; People, planet

and profit. The approach is for profit not to be at the expense of the other two.

Sustainable fashion is the only way fashion can move forward.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The (INAUDIBLE) cloth really came about because I wanted to work towards eliminating textile waste or at least reducing

textile waste. We go to tailoring shops, designers. We go into their studios. We pick up the offcuts from their tailoring floors and we bring

them into our studio.

I will be honest and say that, initially, the interest wasn't because it's a sustainable fabric. The interest is simply because they found it pretty

and found it different.

But with education, with advocacy, a lot of them I think or some of them, particularly those clients that we work with, if they saw two fabrics,

exact same design, one with textile waste incorporated, the other not, like most likely now would go with the one that has textile waste incorporated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then there's also Black Adudu 007 who repurposes ancient Aso Oke. These are fabrics that dates back '50, '60 and it's

targeting affluence, royals because that's an intentional way of repurposing those textiles.

LASISI OLUBUNMI, CREATIVE DIRECTOR, BLACK ADUDU 007: Imagine someone of 80 years, 100 years old, telling you this was the fabric I used for my

wedding. Then we now, in this era and time, we are out there looking for those fabrics.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We put them together (INAUDIBLE) and then we put them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would say the Nigeria fashion industry is booming because Nigerians themselves are embracing Nigerian fashion, our fabrics,

our textiles, our aesthetics and they're turning them into contemporary designs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm excited to see that sustainability in Nigeria is catching on. We're seeing a lot of that in Nigeria now, not as a trend but

brands that are very interested in doing their bit to save the environment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:45:42]

ASHER: All right. We are going to take time out now for a segment on "One World" that takes a step back from the stress of living in an increasingly

polarized world.

It can certainly be very tough to retreat from the never-ending headlines from the explosive situation, of course, in Minneapolis after the fatal

shootings of two American citizens at the hands of federal agents to simmering tensions between Tehran and Washington after protests and the

government crackdown, to Russia's war on Ukraine now set to enter its fourth year.

For those looking for respite in turbulent times, does stoicism have a thing or two to teach us?

For centuries, leaders, generals and politicians have been inspired by the thoughts and writings of thinkers like Marcus Aurelius, the essence of his

teachings. How do we learn to live well in a world that we simply cannot control? And what would that mean for our peace of mind?

Our next guest says that he was introduced to the philosophy of stoicism about two decades ago. Ryan Holiday joins us live now from Austin, Texas.

He's the host of the podcast, The Daily Stoic, and the author of several books. Many of them I've read myself, including his latest one, "Wisdom

Takes Work: Learn. Apply. And Repeat."

Ryan, so, so good to have you on the program. I am a huge fan of yours.

Obviously, I am a news anchor, and I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that the news cycle feels relentless. It feels very emotionally

charged. I mean, so many of us were so upset by what we saw on the streets of Minneapolis over the weekend.

And, you know, I don't care what side of the political aisle you're on. It is really painful and really saddening to watch someone be shot and killed

on camera.

What does stoicism have to teach us about how we can respond or how we should respond to injustice, Ryan?

RYAN HOLIDAY, HOST, "THE DAILY STOIC" PODCAST: Yes. Stoicism is ultimately a -- a philosophy about acceptance, accepting things that are outside your

control.

But the one area that the stoics are -- are quite clear that we -- we don't accept things, that we do respond is in the case of -- of injustice. The --

the force to have virtues be encouraged, self-discipline, justice and wisdom.

And I think courage and justice come together there to -- to sort of turn away to not pay attention because it's upsetting to you is -- is obviously

wrong.

[12:50:10]

And we have Marcus Aurelius, the -- the emperor of Rome saying that to himself, a -- a reminder that -- that injustices is -- is not just

something you do. You can also commit an injustice, he said by -- by doing nothing, by saying that's not my problem, that doesn't affect me, by

looking for excuses.

So the stoics are actively involved in the world. They just try to be in command of themselves while doing so.

ASHER: That's such an important point, because I think a lot of people, you know, when I first discovered stoicism, I think my misinterpretation was

that it was similar to sort of apathy and disengagement, but it's not -- it's not like that at all.

Does anger have a role to play in stoicism?

HOLIDAY: Yes. I think being upset when you see something outrageous is natural and human, but it is precisely when the stakes are high. It is

precisely when people are counting on you or you're in some position of responsibility that -- that you can't afford to go around being outraged

and acting on that emotion. The -- the stoics were often, you know, sort of connected to the halls of power.

And we have one stoic, his name is -- is Athenodorus, and he's advising the first emperor of Rome, the Octavian, the future Augustus.

And he tells him that whenever he's upset, he has to first count all 24 letters of the alphabet. It was too shorter than. And he says, you have to

count all the letters of the alphabet before you respond.

And I think, you know, pausing and reflecting before taking action is a big part of what stoicism teaches us. It's not that you don't take the action,

it's that you don't want to take it while you're angry, while you're blinded by fear or jealousy or whatever strong emotion is coming up, that's

not what you want informing what you do.

ASHER: That's such a -- you know, what I find so interesting is how so many of these philosophies overlap. I practice Kabbalah and that is a big part

of it, pausing before any kind of emotional response.

So one of my questions to you is really just moving away from the news cycle, just talking about some of the issues that people might be dealing

with in their everyday life.

Two people can go through the same thing, a divorce, a heartbreak, your boyfriend breaks up with you, death in the family. Somebody gets cancer who

you care about. You get cancer.

One person collapses under all of that pressure, totally understandable. Another person adapts. What determines the difference between the two,

Ryan?

HOLIDAY: Wow. That -- I don't know. I -- that's one of the great mysteries of life, why -- why one person responds this way and another this way.

And I think the same person might be able to deal with something heart wrenching like cancer. And their car breaks down and -- and that's

devastating. So I think so much depends on the circumstances, depends on the moment.

What -- what the stoics try to teach us though is that when we are challenged by life, the point is to rise and to meet that challenge. It's

not to turn away from it. It's not to wish it was otherwise. It's not to blame it on other people. But to say to yourself, what does this give me an

opportunity to do, right?

What can I learn from this? How can I be of service to others through this? What -- what virtue is being asked of me here?

And -- and in this way, even the most difficult and unfair and challenging of circumstances presents us an opportunity to be better for it.

It's not going to be fun while we're going through it. But afterwards, we can look back and go, hey, who I am now is only possible because of how I

responded to what happened then.

ASHER: I loved what you said about -- just now about what virtue is being asked of me here, sort of using some of the challenges that you might

experience to be of service to others. That's a big -- that's a big part of Kabbalah as well, and it sounds like stoicism too.

You know, it's one thing to practice stoicism by yourself in your bedroom when your life is going well and when your life is so-so and things are

going smoothly.

But when you are really tested, when the rubber meets the road and something goes wrong in your life, like you lose your job, for example,

it's very easy people to then sort of abandon. I don't have time for stoicism right now. I need to deal with this.

How do you make sure that you incorporate everything that you've learned in private to when it really matters when you are being tested?

HOLIDAY: Yes. It's -- it's easy to be stoic about something when you're not being tested when it's easy. It is precisely in -- in moments of extreme

success but also extreme difficulty and adversity that I think we're most called to sort of have that even keel, to have that self-command.

So, if it was easy, everyone would do it. If this was just something you were born with, it wouldn't be that impressive either. So, it's important

that we see that -- that this is work. It's hard work. It's not something you read once and you magically have. It's work. And -- and we should be

getting better at it as we go.

[12:55:10]

That -- that is how we turn obstacles into opportunities in one most simple way which is we go, hey, I'm getting practice dealing with stuff like this.

And it's going to prepare me and make me better for when I have to deal with something even more difficult than this at some point down the road.

So I just try to think about it always as I'm getting reps. I don't want to be having this conversation. I don't want to be dealing with this. I would

love the news to be positive instead of negative, but it isn't. And so I'm getting practice dealing with precisely that.

ASHER: Ryan, thank you so much for your work. I mean, obviously, I've read "The Obstacle Is the Way."

And just -- just in terms of really sort of teaching me how to respond to the challenges that we all experience in life, myself as -- I mean, I've

been through quite a bit over the past couple of years and just what you have taught me about how to react and how to respond rather than react has

been life changing. So I thank you for that.

Ryan Holiday, live for us. Thank you so much.

And that does it for this hour of "One World." I'm Zain Asher. Appreciate you watching. "Amanpour" is up next. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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