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One World with Zain Asher
Afghanistan and Pakistan Exchange Cross-Border Strikes; Signs of Progress but no Breakthrough in Nuclear Talks; Former President Clinton Gives Deposition Over Epstein Ties; UN: "Flawed" Disclosures Undermine Accountability; Anthropic CEO Shuts Down Latest Pete Hegseth Proposal; Blackpink Unveils "Deadline" with Five New Tracks. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired February 27, 2026 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST, ONE WORLD: All right. Coming to you live from New York. I'm Zain Asher. My colleague, Bianna, is off today. You are watching
"One World". At this hour, a historic legal showdown is underway. A Former President of the United States is about to testify about his ties to
Jeffrey Epstein.
The House Oversight Committee is questioning Bill Clinton, this just one day after his wife Hillary answered questions for more than six hours
yesterday. Republican lawmakers say they have a lot of questions for the former president, who flew on Epstein's private plane at least 16 times,
according to a CNN analysis.
And as you can see here, he also appeared in photographs with the convicted sex offender as well. The head of the committee says there are questions
that only the former president can answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Jeffrey Epstein was in the White House 17 times while Bill Clinton was President. We know that Bill Clinton flew on Jeffrey
Epstein's plane at least 27 times. So those are questions that we're going to ask. Everything that most media outlets have reported with respect to
pictures and correspondence between Epstein, Maxwell and Bill Clinton. These are all questions that we're going to ask today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: All right. Hillary Clinton emerged from testifying Thursday saying she had no knowledge of Epstein's crimes, and that she expects her husband
will say the same today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I think the chronology of the connection that he had with Epstein ended years, several years before
anything about Epstein's criminal activities came to light.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Secretary Clinton criticized the committee for holding the deposition behind closed doors. Republican Congresswoman Lauren Boebert
seemed to agree. She sent this photo of Clinton giving her testimony to a right-wing influencer who then posted it online. That incident forced
lawmakers to temporarily pause proceedings.
The Clintons have not been accused of any criminal wrong doing in this case. Let's get some perspective on these certainly unusual proceedings.
We're joined live now by Former Federal Prosecutor Gene Rossi. Gene, always good to see you.
So, Hillary Clinton yesterday talked about the fact that she had never really even met. She didn't even know Jeffrey Epstein. Obviously, the same
cannot be said for her husband, Bill Clinton. Just give us your take on the sorts of questions you expect Bill Clinton to have to answer today at the
deposition.
GENE ROSSI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, if I were doing the deposition, I would focus on and these are just areas that I would inquire
into what relationship did Jeffrey Epstein have with the Clinton Global Initiative and also at the White House? What money was exchanged, or
anything like that?
And I'd also focus on the plane trips. I heard a number of 16 times Mr. Comer -- Chairman, Comer said 27. But I would ask about the plane trips.
Where did they go? Who else was on the plane? Were there Secret Service? Was there -- were there any young women on the plane, anything like that?
I'd ask if he ever went to the islands or the homes that Jeffrey Epstein has. So, I would drill down on that. Here's my main concern, Zain, is
you're deposing in private, not public. You're deposing in private a former president. The precedent that is being set here is absolutely atrocious.
Because what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and Donald Trump is just leading with his chin by encouraging and approving, Mr. Comer's
deposition of both Hillary and President Clinton. And I got to say this, Melania Trump, the First Lady of the United States, there's nothing to
prevent her from being interviewed.
If we're going to interview Hillary Clinton, who didn't even know Jeffrey Epstein, never met him and had nothing to offer. Then Melania Trump was in
a ton of photos. That's fair game. So, I'm just worried about the precedent that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, as they say.
ASHER: Well, I mean, that is what a lot of people are saying, especially if you know, you look at the midterms and if Democrats take control of the
House, then could this end up backfiring on Republicans? It is possible that is what a lot of people saying.
And a lot of people are really sort of talking about the double standard, as you point out here. Just in terms of Hillary Clinton, being deposed
yesterday.
[11:05:00]
Just how common is it for such a peripheral figure, right, so to speak, to be deposed in that way, especially given, as you just touched on, she
didn't even know Epstein.
ROSSI: If this were a criminal or civil case, and depositions are usually taken in civil cases, a judge would quash a subpoena of Hillary Clinton.
She has zero nothing zippo to offer to this committee, and it gets to one point I wanted to make. It's just a shiny object.
Hillary Clinton is a classic shiny object Zain. The Republicans the poll numbers are a disaster. They are going to lose the House and possibly the
Senate. That's a given. Put a fork in it. It's done. So, they have to distract from the issues that people care about, and this is one of them.
Because whenever Republicans are in trouble, whenever they're in trouble, they always go to the Clintons, whether it's Benghazi or this issue of
Jeffrey Epstein. So, it's a shiny object and the deposition of Bill Clinton, there are questions they can ask regarding the relationship,
financially and things like that.
And whether he saw anything that would give him reason to believe that he was engaging in horrendous conduct. That's fair game, but I just worry
about the precedent that's going to be sent. And Zain, the other thing is this, we have the junior varsity people asking the President of the United
States and Hillary Clinton questions.
The people on the House Oversight Committee they aren't the creme de la creme of members of Congress, let's just call it the way it is. If they're
asking about UFOs, Pizza Gate, you know, Laser Beams from outer space, if they're asking about that, they lose complete credibility.
And it reinforces that this is just a side show, a distraction, and just an attempt to divert from the horrendous electoral prospects of this November.
ASHER: So, Gene, you talk to us in your first answer, just really about the kinds of questions that you know lawmakers might be asking here. But in
terms of how Bill Clinton might respond, what sort of questions can he, legally refuse to answer in a deposition like this?
ROSSI: Well, this is just hypothetical. If he took money illegally from Jeffrey Epstein, that's just an easy one. I'm not saying that happened, but
if there's evidence that he did, and I'm not saying it occurred, then that's something to which he would claim the Fifth Amendment.
If he took cash, if he money launder it, or anything like that. These are just things I'm throwing out there that would be fair game. The financial
records of the Clinton Global Initiative. And then you add to it, I'm just throwing out an allegation that he may have been aware or had willful
blindness as to what Jeffrey Epstein was doing on his island and with the women.
And that may be something you would plead the Fifth. But I'm not saying it occurred. I'm just saying these are questions that Comer at all will
probably focus on. They'll focus on the money that Jeffrey Epstein may have sent to the Clinton Global Initiative. They'll focus on, why, of all people
are you getting on his plane 16 to 27 times?
Third would be, what money was he giving to the Clinton Global Initiative? What was the financial benefit? Those are things I predict they're going to
focus on, if they get into, you know, UFOs and Pizza Gate, if they get into President Clinton's personal issues that we all are aware of before and
during his presidency, if they get into that, then Republicans have really lost the attention of the American people.
ASHER: All right. Gene Rossi, live for us there. Thank you so much. And we'll have much more later on this hour, when we take you live to
Chappaqua, New York, where the deposition is being held. All right. I want to turn now to the latest flare up of violence between two neighbors,
Pakistan and Afghanistan are clashing openly once again.
All right, you can hear there the sounds of gunfire in this video released by Afghan forces. The two nations have been trading tit-for-tat attacks
this week along their long, rugged and porous borders -- says that Friday strikes targeted Afghan defense facilities in the Capital Kabul and
elsewhere.
Pakistan's Defense Minister says that Pakistan is essentially declaring open war on Afghanistan, accusing them of exporting terrorism. Last
weekend, Islamabad hit what it said were militant camps in Afghanistan. The Taliban's military launched what it calls a retaliatory attack late
Thursday.
International Diplomatic Editor, Nic Robertson is tracking the story for us. Joins us live now from London.
[11:10:00]
So, Nic, we know that Pakistan is essentially accusing Afghanistan of harboring and sort of safe keeping and supporting Pakistani Taliban the
TTP. Just walk us through what we know about the TTP's presence in Afghanistan right now?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's kind of interesting, because if you go back to when the United States and allies
were in Afghanistan, the Taliban that were attacking them with the Afghan Taliban, and they were using safe bases and spaces inside of Pakistan.
Then the United States pulled out. And then a group called the Pakistani Taliban, TTP, and I remember having a sort of an email exchange
conversation with a leader at the time. He said, we are now looking to get support from the Afghan Taliban. Now they're in charge.
And this is, in essence, what's happened over the past several years that they -- the TTP, the Pakistani Taliban have set themselves up at bases
inside of Afghanistan. The Pakistani government says that the Afghan government is allowing them to do this and not cracking down on them.
The Pakistani Taliban have been attacking the Pakistan border the military post there. They want to take control of parts of Afghanistan. They want to
turn it into something similar to Afghanistan and Islamic Emirates. That's what they've said that they wanted to do, bring strict to Sharia Law to
those areas in Pakistan.
So, what has happened here? And we saw a similar sort of flare up in October last year, that after a big border attack by the Pakistani Taliban
against the Pakistani military at the border Pakistan, this army has said enough, we're going to strike their camps. We're going to strike the
Pakistan Taliban camps in Afghanistan that the response came from the Afghan government, therefore, to use Afghan government troops Taliban to
attack Pakistan border.
It all begins to look a lot like the same thing for the Afghan government, and they, in turn, as we saw overnight, struck what they said were Afghan
government military positions inside Afghanistan. That's where the escalation is that they're striking Afghan government targets.
So, there are lines of diplomacy at play at the moment, but the tensions are simmering and high, and it's quite possible that more cross-border
attacks by Afghan or Pakistani Taliban in Afghanistan against Pakistan will likely very quickly bring further air strikes by Pakistan's Air Force.
ASHER: All right. Nic Robertson, live for us. Thank you so much. New developments on the tensions between the U.S. and Iran. The U.S. Embassy in
Israel now authorizing non-essential staff to leave the country. This comes as the U.S. military continues to build up its forces in the Middle East.
CNN is told that President Trump has been briefed on potential military options Iran, though it remains unclear whether he would authorize a strike
at this particular time, while America's military may be prepared for war, the public is certainly not. Many Americans are concerned over the idea of
another prolonged conflict in the Middle East.
In response to those concerns U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance tells "The Washington Post" that there is, quote, no chance of the U.S. becoming
embroiled in a years' long war. Meantime, talks in Geneva have not seen any major breakthrough. Let's bring in Paula Hancocks joining us live now from
Abu Dhabi.
So, Paula, no major breakthrough in terms of these talks, I guess, as a lot of people had been expecting. But we do know, as I mentioned, that J.D.
Vance is meeting with the Omani Foreign Minister. We also know that Marco Rubio is traveling to Israel next week, there does seem to be still a
concerted effort to stave off any sort of potential war with Iran. Where do things stand now?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's a huge amount of diplomatic activity going on at the moment Zain. And of course, you can bet there are
many phone calls back channels being used to try and push the diplomatic process forward. You're right.
There was no breakthrough in the talks on Thursday in Geneva, but what we heard from the Iranian side, and also from the Omani side, the mediators,
was positive, saying that there was progress that was made. We do know there will be these technical talks in Vienna, starting potentially on
Monday.
This is where the UN nuclear watch dog IAEA is based, so it can get to the nitty gritty of what can be agreed to. But of course, there are concerns at
the same time that we are seeing even more military hardware coming in to this region.
We are hearing from the State Department that non-essential personnel in the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem, for example, are authorized to leave. And
we've also heard from -- there was an email from the U.S. Ambassador Mike Huckabee in Jerusalem, saying to his staffers that if they do want to
leave, that they should leave today.
[11:15:00]
Also pointing out there's not a reason to panic, but they are making these decisions out of an abundance of caution. Also pointing out that there will
be a high demand for flights out of Israel, so that they should just get a flight out of Israel and then onward travel to Washington.
All of these elements play together to raise concerns, to raise tensions in the region, that military action could be imminent. But of course, there is
only one man that knows whether or not that is going to be the case.
We know that the U.S. military has been briefing the military leadership has been briefing the U.S. President on exactly what the options are and
the downsides of those options when it comes to potentially not being able to limit the scale or the intensity of an attack, and certainly not the
scale of the retaliation, which Tehran has been very clear about.
They have said that any strike would result in a wider regional war. So, this is a region on edge this Friday evening, with little clarity, really,
after those talks in Geneva yesterday, Zain.
ASHER: All right, Paula Hancocks live for us there. Thank you so much. And the last time Texas had a Democratic Senator was more than three decades
ago. Now these two candidates hope to change that. We'll look at their chances coming up after the break. And speaking of Bill Clinton, we'll go
live to New York, where lawmakers are questioning him about Jeffrey Epstein.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right, early voting in Texas ends in just a few hours as the high stakes Senate Primary there gets closer. Congresswoman Jasmine
Crockett is facing off against State Representative James Talarico for the Democratic Nomination.
On the Republican side, Incumbent Republican Senator John Cornyn, the man on the left, is in a competitive primary race against Texas Attorney
General Ken Paxton, the man the right and Representative Wesley Hunt. Jeff Zeleny takes a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: James Talarico.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're calling out his name all across Texas, a rising star, making some Democrats
dream big.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go win this thing.
ZELENY (voice-over): James Talarico is turning heads as Democrats look for signs of hope in the midterm elections and beyond.
[11:20:00]
ZELENY: You weren't born the last time that Texas elected a Democrat to the U.S. Senate.
JAMES TALARICO, U.S. SENATE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: That's right.
ZELENY: Why is this year different you believe?
TALARICO: Well, there is a growing backlash in this state to the extremism and the corruption in our government. I can't tell you how many people come
up to me at the end of these events and whisper, I'm not a Democrat, like it's some kind of secret.
ZELENY (voice-over): That fact alone speaks to the challenge or opportunity in a deep red state where the last Democratic Senator was Lloyd Benson,
reelected in 1988 a year before Talarico was born.
TALARICO: There is something happening in the state, and I think we're going to surprise a lot of people on election night in November.
ZELENY (voice-over): But long before a potential November surprise, he faces a spirited Primary Tuesday with Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett.
JASMINE CROCKETT, U.S. SENATE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: People can take a chance on somebody that says that they will fight, or they can go with a
proven fire.
ZELENY (voice-over): It's emerged as a study in contrast and a stark choice for Democrats whether to fire up the base or try to expand it
TALARICO: Whether you're a Democrat or Republican, whether you're a progressive or a conservative, the real fight in this country is not left
versus right, it's top versus bottom.
ZELENY (voice-over): That message has put Talarico, a 36-year-old State Representative on the political map after appearing with Joe Rogan last
year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to run for president. We need someone who's actually a good person.
ZELENY (voice-over): Talarico has been everywhere, including a star turn on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert, who said the FCC sought to block the
broadcast in a segment that became political gold.
TALARICO: I think it's safe to say their plan backfired.
ZELENY (voice-over): The grandson of a pastor and a seminary student himself, he talks more about faith than most Democrats and tackling tough
problems with love.
TALARICO: Love is not weak. Love sometimes requires that we stand between the bullies and the bullied.
ZELENY: As you well know, some Democrats aren't in the mood to love, right?
TALARICO: Well, I think it's because we treat love as some kind of soft, sentimental feeling, when, in fact, love is a ferocious force. You think
about the love of a mama bear protecting her cub, that's the kind of love that we need in this moment.
ZELENY (voice-over): He's tapped into the frustration of seasoned voters like Elaine and Ed Barnes.
ELAINE BARNES, TEXAS VOTER: We used to vote Republican, and 2016 it changed us.
ED BARNES, TEXAS VOTER: We're not left, we're not right, we just want to be reasonable somewhere in sensible center, and maybe this is going in that
direction.
ZELENY (voice-over): And younger ones like Oliver Dixon.
OLIVER DIXON, TEXAS VOTER: It shouldn't be left versus right. And I think Talarico spot on, on that when he talks about that.
ZELENY (voice-over): Talarico's views are proudly progressive, strongly denouncing Trump's immigration crackdown and most administration policies,
yet his touch is softer.
ZELENY: Do you think voters are looking for a healer more than a fighter?
TALARICO: I don't know if those two things are mutually exclusive. I think the best way to fight is to unite, and I know how to do both of those
things.
ZELENY: Electability has become a key issue in the final days of this campaign, at events like this one, Talarico argues he's the stronger
general election candidate. Of course, that's a moot point if he doesn't win on Tuesday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: That was Jeff Zeleny reporting from Texas. All right, still to come, the Epstein files are filled with misogyny and sexism in email exchanges
between Epstein and his circle, including some very, very powerful men. I'm going to speak to an expert on gender equality about what these reveals
about the global patriarchy is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:25:00]
ASHER: Welcome back to "One World" I'm Zain Asher from New York. Here are some of the headlines we are watching today. Right now, Former President
Bill Clinton is facing questions from House lawmakers about his relationship with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.
The president's name and face showed up a number of times during the investigation into Epstein. Today's closed-door hearing comes a day after
lawmakers actually grill his wife, Former Secretary of State, Former First Lady, Hillary Clinton.
Pakistan's Defense Minister says his country has declared open war on Afghanistan as two nations trade tit-for-tat fire. Pakistan struck Afghan
defense facilities in Kabul and two other provinces hours after the Taliban launched cross border attacks. The latest escalation comes after Islamabad
launched weekend strikes targeting what it calls militant camps in Afghanistan as well.
A U.S. official tells CNN that an American citizen is actually among four people killed Wednesday in what has been described as a shootout between
Cuban forces and a speedboat into Cuba's territorial waters. The official said a second wounded U.S. citizen is receiving medical treatment in Cuba.
Havana says the speedboat was trying to, quote, infiltrate the island.
And the serial stowaway Svetlana Dali is at it again. According to sources, she sneaked onto a flight from New York to Milan on Wednesday, where she
was then taken or detained, rather, at the airport. In 2024 Dali stowed away on a flight from New York to Paris, and prosecutors say that flight
was actually not her first attempt.
All right, let's get back to our main story. Former U.S. President Bill Clinton testifying behind closed-doors in the Epstein investigation by the
House Oversight Committee. CNN's Annie Grayer is in Chappaqua, New York, where the deposition is taking place. And the deposition has now begun.
It's going to be a very different tone and tenor Annie, especially when you compare it to what happened with his wife Hillary Clinton yesterday,
because at the end of the day, you know, based on what she said, she didn't really know Jeffrey Epstein at all.
Obviously, it's a very different situation for Bill Clinton, because he traveled on Epstein's private jet a number of times, and Epstein actually
visited him at the White House while he was President. Just walk us through some of the questions lawmakers are going to be asking him.
ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: That's right. Today, it's going to have a very different tone than yesterday, and there's bipartisan interest in
getting more information from the former president about his well- documented relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
As you mentioned, Secretary Clinton, who testified yesterday in the building behind me for more than six hours, said she never met Jeffrey
Epstein. So, unlike his wife, Former President, Bill Clinton, has flown on Epstein's plane. Epstein did visit Bill Clinton while he was in the White
House.
And Bill Clinton's face is featured all over the Epstein files released by the Department of Justice, including a photo of Clinton in a jacuzzi with
women whose face is -- faces are redacted. So, the former president is, I'm told, reading his opening statement as we speak in the building behind me,
where he's going to have a closed-door deposition.
He's going to be answering questions by both Democrat and Republican lawmakers. We are expecting it to be a very long day. This deposition will
be videotaped. There will be a transcript, but that will be released at a later date.
We were just informed by the House Oversight Chairman James Comer that he is trying to release the deposition video of Hillary Clinton from her
deposition yesterday.
[11:30:00]
He's trying to release that as soon as later today, so we will be on stand by for that. But this is not -- this has been a long road to get here. This
is not how the Clintons wanted to participate in this investigation.
They wanted to submit written testimony and say that they were being treated unfairly for political purposes when Comer forced them to come for
in person depositions. They only caved to the demands for depositions when, on a bipartisan basis, Democrats and Republicans were going to hold the
Clintons in criminal contempt of Congress for not complying with their subpoenas.
We are here in Chappaqua as part of an accommodation between Clinton attorneys and the committee who wanted to hold this deposition in their
hometown. And this sets a new precedent today, with the Former President Bill Clinton testifying. It's the first time a former president has ever
test -- been deposed in a congressional investigation.
Democrats say that this sets the precedent for them to call in President Donald Trump for his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. They called Hillary Clinton's
deposition yesterday, a waste of time, given that she says she's ever met Epstein. They're trying to push Republicans who control this committee to
bring Donald Trump in for questioning, who claim to be resistant of all this.
Now, the Clintons wanted to testify publicly, but the Oversight Chairman made this all happen behind closed-doors, so this is going to be a long day
of questioning, and we will keep you posted as it unfolds.
ASHER: All right. Annie Grayer, thank you so much. Right, as the fallout from the Jeffrey Epstein files reverberates around the world. I want to
take a closer look at what the files reveal about the depths of misogyny among Epstein and his circle of powerful friends, powerful friends around
the world.
UN experts say the flawed release of the Epstein filed by the Justice Department undermines accountability for grave crimes against women and
girls. They go on to say, quote, these crimes were committed against a backdrop of supremacist beliefs, racism, corruption, extreme misogyny and
the commodification and dehumanization of women and girls from different parts of the world.
Amelia Gentleman is a Reporter and Author of "The Windrush Betrayal" in The Guardian. She writes, quote, the Epstein files reveal a patriarchy
inaction. The emails showcase the private behavior of a male ruling class. As they network joke and trade information women exist at the periphery,
tolerated because they organize the diaries of the busy men. They arrange food, they grace a table and they provide sex.
My next guest, Amy Diehl, is a Gender Equality Equity Expert and Co-Author of "Glass Walls Shattering: The Six Gender Biases Barriers Still Holding
Women Back at Work". Amy, thank you so much for being with us. It's really hard to believe that it's actually been --
AMY DIEHL, GENDER EQUITY RESEARCHER: Thanks for having me.
ASHER: Of course, it's really hard to believe that it's been about 10 years since the "Me Too Movement" started in 2017. And back then, obviously we
saw a number of resignations of a lot of very high profile, very prominent men. That's happening this time around, albeit at a much slower pace.
Talk to us about the differences in terms of accountability between the "Me Too Movement" a decade ago and what we're seeing now in the fallout of
Jeffrey Epstein files, because one of the key differences is that back then, politics didn't really play a role. There wasn't necessarily a sort
of partisan nature to the level of accountability or the resignations, et cetera. That's playing a much bigger role this time around. Give us your
take on the two movements, if you will.
DIEHL: Well, I think that there are certainly, you know, in the United States government, the person at the very top of our government, our
president is, you know, in those files. And so, there is, you know, political pressure to not use -- as you've seen, political pressure to not
release the files.
And now that they are released, you know, we're not even sure that everything has been released. So, you are seeing much more of silencing of
victims and trying to keep this at bay.
ASHER: And just in terms of the way that these files have been released. I mean, I've talked a lot about on this show, just really about the way the
sort of the names of the powerful men and the co-conspirators, their names have been redacted, while you often see the names of victims being
released.
And you know, either it's sort of carelessness or there's a deliberate attempt intent behind this. I mean, that's for other people to sort of
speculate on. But just in terms of what that says about the power dynamics and really what that says about, you know, credibility and just trusting
the process?
[11:35:00]
Obviously, it is very difficult for young women who have been sexually abused to come forward in the first place, let alone this idea that their
names are now going to be exposed. That we've talked a lot about how that re-traumatizes the victims. Give us your take on that.
DIEHL: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it absolutely re-victimizes victims when their names are released without their consent. It re-traumatize like
-- the whole process re-traumatizes victims, and it really shouldn't. We should have processes in place where victims are believed, supported, and
that they can see that their abusers are brought to justice.
However, we are not seeing that so far in this case, if you think about it, in the United States, we've had two convictions related to this case so
far, Jeffrey Epstein himself, and Ghislaine Maxwell, and that's been it. So, I think what we really need to see from this case is that the
individuals who have perpetuated the abuse or who have enabled it are brought to justice.
ASHER: You know, just in terms of what you've read with, you know, some of these emails that have been released, and what you've seen from that front,
what is your sort of overarching perspective and view about especially among the elite and powerful men in this country, what is your overarching
view of misogyny, gender and power? And what we're seeing in terms of the main themes of some of these emails?
DIEHL: Yeah, the emails were really interesting because what you're seeing is the casual, how casual they are with their misogyny and their everyday
correspondence. It's very explicit. You know, they thought it was behind closed doors, various explicit misogyny.
So, Epstein, he was well connected to scientists at top universities who actually continue to associate with him, even after 2008 conviction for
soliciting prostitution with a minor. But the files show how he used his power and money and status in ways that kept women out of places where they
might succeed.
So, he had these like networks, right? These exclusive networks of men, and the men in the club benefited. You know, Epstein donated millions of
dollars to like these scientists. He donated millions of dollars to their research. He hosted them at networking dinners at his home.
He invited them to his island and to his ranch in Santa Fe. And he connected them to potential funders of their work. But what you really see,
what you also see in these files, is that they did not see Epstein and his associates did not see women as their intellectual equals.
There was an AI researcher who said, it's hard to be brilliant if you are worrying if you look fat or why another woman hates you. Epstein responded,
there are no really smart women, none. And then another point with Epstein, Epstein called women all week and a distraction.
And what he was referring to, he was complaining because two women were invited to an exclusive retreat that was organized by a literary agent.
Epstein felt that no women should be invited. And so, if you think about it, Epstein really had two types of victims.
He had the direct victims who were sexually exploited, but he also had indirect women, excuse me, indirect victims, and those are the women who
were excluded and kept out of intellectual conversations, who were de graded in the casual conversations, and whose ideas were taken seriously.
And, you know, were unable to benefit from, you know, the money that the men were able to benefit the money and the funding that the men were able
to benefit from.
ASHER: Right. Amy Diehl, we appreciate your perspective. Thank you. Thank you so much.
DIEHL: You're welcome.
ASHER: All right, still to come, Anthropic AI battle with the Pentagon, how the company has responded to defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's ultimatum?
That's after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:40:00]
ASHER: All right, we are now just hours away from the Pentagon's deadline for Anthropic AI. The American company, has been given an ultimatum by U.S.
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, hand over full access to its technology or face being blacklisted.
But Anthropic CEO Dario Amadeo seemed undeterred in his latest statement, saying that he cannot, in good conscious, accede to their request. Hegseth
Pentagon has been seeking unfettered access to Anthropic AI Model Claude, but Amadeo is adamant the company systems will not be used in autonomous
weapons or for mass surveillance.
CNN's Hadas Gold has been following the story closely and joins us live now. So, one of the things that Anthropic has sort of really built their
reputation on is this idea of sort of morality and safeguards, and so this puts them in a really difficult position Hadas?
HADAS GOLD, CNN AI CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it puts them in a difficult position. Because their concern, they say, is that these AI models are just
not ready to be in charge of an autonomous weapon. And they're also concerned when it comes to mass surveillance, that the laws and regulations
that we currently have not caught up to the advancements in AI.
And Dario Amadeo wrote in this, in a statement, that the Fourth Amendment could be made a mockery of based because of how advanced AI can be in mass
surveillance. And they're standing firm on these red lines, saying that they want to work with the military, and if the military doesn't agree to
this, they're happy to help off board their systems, from Anthropic Claude, and work with whoever they want to work with, to, you know, to make the
transformation be seamless.
But the issue here is that Claude was the first system that was to work on the military class fight system. It's considered one of the best in the
industry, and that's why the military wants to be able to use it. But the Pentagon is saying, hey, we need to be able to make the decisions we make
with the tools that we have.
We don't want to be in a war situation having to go to you for permission or trying to change something so we can use it the way we want to. You have
to work with us on this. But the threats that they've been leveling of calling Anthropic a supply chain risk that could make major damage to their
business.
These are unprecedented threats, and they are seemingly punitive, because instead of just saying, hey, OK, we won't work with you, we'll try to go
somewhere else, they're leveling these other threats. But what's interesting is just this morning, Zain, Anthropic is getting some really
big support from one of their chief rivals, somebody who has not been won too often laud compliments on Anthropic.
Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI, says in a memo both to staff and in an interview, saying that they have the same concerns as Anthropic when it
comes to working with the Pentagon. Take a listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAM ALTMAN, OPENAI CEO: I don't personally think the Pentagon should be threatening DPA against these companies. But I also think that companies
that choose to work with the Pentagon, as long as it is going to comply with legal protections and the sort of the few red lines that the field
that we have, I think we share with Anthropic and that other companies also independently agree with.
I think it is important to do that. I've been for all the differences I have with Anthropic. I mostly trust them as a company, and I think they
really do care about safety, and I've been happy that they've been supporting our war fighters. I'm not sure where this is going to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLD: I think this is really notable, because if the Pentagon doesn't want to work with Anthropic, one of the other best models they could work with
is OpenAI. But if OpenAI has these same concerns, they will have to deal with now OpenAI having these red lines as well.
Now, Sam Altman wrote in a memo to staff that I have confirmed that they still want to strike a deal with the Pentagon that they think they have
found an Avenue that will satisfy the Pentagon's issues and hopefully also their issues with Anthropic and they want to kind of be a peacemaker here.
[11:45:00]
But so far, the Pentagon has been putting out pretty harsh statements about Anthropic, saying that Dario Amadeo, the CEO, has a god complex, calling
him a liar. So, we'll see what happens today at 05:01 p.m. when that deadline shows up, Zain.
ASHER: All right, Hadas Gold live for us there. Thank you so much. For more, let's bring in Sarah Myers West, a Co-Executive Director at the AI
Now Institute, who joins us live now from New York. Sarah, thank you so much for being with us.
I mean, just want to get your take just out of the gate. Just, you know, here you have the Defense Department, Pete Hegseth essentially using DPA to
sort of force a private AI company towards military objectives. Your thoughts on that? And also, what does that say about autonomy, you know,
general sort of autonomy of private AI companies going forward?
SARAH MAYERS WEST, CO-EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AI NOW INSTITUTE: Thanks for having me. I mean, let's take a step back. The Pentagon itself has rules
that wouldn't allow the use of AI for autonomous weapons. There's a requirement that they be engaged in rigorous testing, that there be
meaningful human control over these systems.
And there's good reason for those rules to be upheld, because tests of similar systems that have been made public show that the accuracy of using
LLMs in sort of battlefield environments is extremely low. It's an unacceptable threshold for targeting as an unacceptable threshold for the
use of these systems for defense.
And so, you know this -- though, this is being framed as an issue around a particular company's red lines. I think the key here is that there are
existing standards around the use of tools in these contexts that need to be upheld, and that the Pentagon should be abiding by its own playbook
here.
ASHER: Yeah, that's an interesting point, that it's not just about Anthropic it's really about the Pentagon sort of upholding their own rules
on this. But from Anthropic's perspective, you know, talk to us about the ethical considerations.
I mean, where do they draw the line between national security interests versus, you know, the use of that technology for mass surveillance, for
autonomous weapons? I mean, ethically, you know, they've made their position very clear, but explain that thought process to us that they're
in?
WEST: Yes. I mean, I think it's wise that Anthropic has put safety forward in its -- you know, orientation towards these tools. You know, if they are
to be deployed in really highly, you know, socially significant contexts like surveillance or weaponry that would have profound implications for the
public at large.
But we've seen Anthropic itself feel immense pressure to roll these guidelines back. For example, they release it -- they recently rolled back
the responsible scaling policy, which said that, you know that if they found that the systems that they were developing out strict their ability
to control them, they would stop building them.
And they've recently removed this policy because none of their competitors are keeping up with it. They say themselves, they're in a race to the
bottom, and because they're seeing so much political pressure, more generally, around safety.
So, I think the entire context around AI and the safety of these tools right now, it is in a quite dire state, and it's really important for
policy makers to be, you know, pushing the line for baseline protections for the public from these, you know, quite egregious potential uses.
ASHER: I want you to expand on something you sort of touched on a minute ago. What would have been the consequences? What would have been the
broader implications had Anthropic acquiesced to the Department of Defense demands here, Pete Hegseth's demands?
WEST: Well, we've seen in recent memos coming from the Pentagon that there are particular kinds of uses of AI that they really want to be doubling
down on. It's things like enabling AI to be used autonomously in drone warfare. The use of AI agents that can act, you know, without human
oversight.
The development of drone swarms, mass -- the sort of potentially uses, not by the Pentagon, but by DHS for mass surveillance. These are things that
you know, historically, that the United States has not exceeded to, and it's really like a massive ramp up in the militarization of these tools.
ASHER: And final question, could the standoff prompt Congress to sort of rewrite laws, or just regulators to really think, rethink rather AI policy
going forward?
WEST: Let's hope so. I mean, I think that there's already ground to just focus on upholding the rules that we already have. You know, we don't need
to rewrite the playbook for this version of AI. There are existing safety standards that we've used across many different generations of technology
that have really served us well, that have protected our security, both at the national level, and the security of the you know, the domestic public.
[11:50:00]
So, starting there, just by making sure that we're upholding and enforcing the existing rules is a really good start. And unfortunately, it seems like
that's, you know, that's the lowest bar that we can be moving from.
ASHER: Right. Sarah Myers West, thank you so much. Appreciate it. We'll be right back with more after the short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right, judges in Paris were slicing, smelling and sampling baguettes at this year's Annual Grand Prix De La Baguette on Thursday.
Bakers entered more than 140 of the loaves made with just flour, water, salt and yeast when a baguette is baked this way, in France, it's called a
tradition.
Winner of the contest, a baker at the Boulangerie Fournil Didot received $4,700 and the honor of supplying the French President's table with
baguettes as well. Meantime, in Argentina, a small discovery about a mighty species.
Researchers have uncovered the fossil of one of the world's tiniest known dinosaurs, the pint science reptile, nicknamed Alna, is about the size of a
crow and weighs a pound and a half. Her body was widely covered by a sand dune when she died, which is why she is actually so well preserved.
Researchers believe Alna probably hunted lizards, snakes, mammals and invertebrates.
One of the world's most popular media franchises at Pokemon celebrates its 30th anniversary today. The Japanese brand is beloved globally for its
animated TV series, movies, video games and iconic trading cards as well founded in Tokyo, 1936 the franchise has gone on to become the world's most
valuable according to Guinness, world records with revenues exceeding 100 billion.
Earlier this month, Influencer and Wrestler Logan Paul sold a single trading card for a record setting 60.5 million proving just how popular and
profitable the franchise remains. All right, finally, this hour, major news for fans of K-Pop. Superstars Blackpink just dropped five new tracks for
the first time in more than three years.
[11:55:00]
Deadline is Blackpink's first relief since their full-length album in 2022. To celebrate, the National Museum of Korea held a special pink themed event
for more than 300 fans. The band's agency say they are the first artist in the world of the past, 100 million subscribers on YouTube. All right, stay
with CNN. I'll have much more "One World" after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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