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One World with Zain Asher

Iran's Foreign Minister: Iranians Never Bow To Pressure; Health Officials Worldwide Scramble To Track Hantavirus; Questions Over U.K. PM's Future Following Local Election Losses; Pope Leo Prays For World Leaders To Calm Tensions; New Warnings Of Xenophobic Attacks In South Africa. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired May 08, 2026 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:35]

ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: According to Iranian media, U.S. and Iran exchange limited fire today, but Donald Trump says that the ceasefire is still in

place.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: The second hour of "One World" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If there's no ceasefire, you're not going to have to know. You're just going to have to look at one

big glow coming out of Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: What will Iran say about the U.S. proposal to end the conflict?

According to Marco Rubio, we should know by the end of the day.

ASHER: Also ahead, in transit. The MV Hondius is on its way to the Canary Islands and the people who work at the port are not happy. Hear from a

doctor who's been treating patients on board.

Plus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Let me be clear, these are really tough results. I'm not going to sugarcoat it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Still standing. Despite the bleak election results, the British prime minister says, he's not going anywhere.

ASHER: And later, ice baths, protein sodas, manifestation, you've heard it all. But what actually works will separate the health from the hype, on

this week's Timeout.

All right. Coming to you live from New York, I'm Zain Asher.

GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. You are watching the second hour of "One World."

ASHER: As the U.S. waits for Iran's response to its peace proposal, tensions are intensifying in the Strait of Hormuz.

GOLODRYGA: The Pentagon says the U.S. has disabled two more Iranian oil tankers attempting to bypass the blockade. Iranian media reports both sides

are exchanging fire.

On Thursday, U.S. Central Command said, three American destroyers came under attack in the Strait and the military responded with self-defense

strikes.

The Defense Secretary, meanwhile, is still holding out hope for a diplomatic solution and says, the ball is in Tehran's court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We're expecting a response from them today at some point. We have not received that yet as, you know, the last -

- in the last hour, but perhaps that will come. Their system is still highly fractured and a bit dysfunctional as well. So that may be serving as

an impediment. I hope it's a serious offer. I really do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Secretary of State Marco Rubio there.

President Trump downplayed those attacks as a, quote, love tap and says the ceasefire remains in effect. But he also had this warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, it's more than a one-page offer. It's an offer that's basically said they will not have nuclear weapons. They're going to hand us

the nuclear dust and many other things that we want.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have they (INAUDIBLE)?

TRUMP: Yes. When they agree, it doesn't mean much because the next day they forget -- they forgot they agreed. And, you know, we're dealing with

different sets of leaders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: CNN's Nic Robertson joins is live now from Islamabad.

So, Nic, I think the big question is how much is the exchange of fire undermined diplomatic efforts to end the war, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. Abbas Araghchi, the Iranian foreign minister spoke to that. He said in a tweet that, you

know, when there's diplomacy on the table, the U.S. reaches for a military adventure and raises the question, are they doing this as a pressure

tactic? Or is it because some spoiler? And by spoiler, he means here influence of Israel trying to push them into doing this.

It's really, at the moment, the ball is actually in Iran's court to get back. And the Pakistan is here. We're expecting a response yesterday.

Secretary Rubio there saying that he expects a response today and even sort of indicated talking about an hour or he -- he seemed to give the

impression that this was something he was expecting for a soon president Trump has talked about expecting it in the next couple of days that both

Trump and Rubio continue to say that it's a sort of a fractured leadership that it's broken. It's hard for them to make decisions.

I think if you look at what's happened this week, Iran got the U.S. version of the proposal back on Sunday. They'd handed it -- there's over Friday.

They got it back Sunday. They've had all week to look at this.

And for the first time, publicly, we know that the president of Iran is met with the Supreme Leader.

So the signals that Iran are sending here is that they are not as fractured as Washington might think they are. That they are taking their time because

they've decided to take time. They've kind of slowed down what they're doing. They do seem to indicate that they're willing to respond to military

force by the United States. That's what we saw earlier in the week. That's what we saw today.

[12:05:12]

It seems rather than being put off by these sort of military exchanges. It really feels as if the Iranians are slow rolling because they think that

time is on their side and they -- they will continue. It appears to use that as a pressure tool against President Trump who wants it as soon as

possible.

GOLODRYGA: Nic, we're hearing from the president continuing to say that these strikes are nothing but a trifle. We heard from the defense secretary

earlier this week saying that along with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs that the strikes back and forth in particular even after Iran struck the

UAE that -- that none of this met the threshold of the U.S. responding.

How is that being interpreted by mediators?

ROBERTSON: You know, I think the mediators are just hoping that -- that small escalation, small outbreaks of -- of fighting don't escalate into

something bigger and then really derail the process.

I think the -- the negotiators believe that both the U.S. and Iran would like to make a deal. I think they understand that, you know, the -- the

things that President Trump spoke about today about getting the highly enriched uranium, the nuclear dust about Iran, not having a nuclear weapon.

If he -- if he wants to have that declared in a document, I mean, that's just the sort of thing that would -- would -- would slow developments up

because Iran is certainly not -- they're not going to do that and have indicated they want to push that issue off to later.

So, in terms of the sort of military side of it, I think there's growing concern in the -- in the -- in the GCC countries and the Gulf, because

they've seen UAE hit on Monday significantly, again on Tuesday, again today, three people injured when a couple of ballistic missiles and drones

were fired there.

And President Trump, earlier in the week, kind of write off those strikes against -- against the UAE as not being terribly significant. That doesn't

make those countries feel particularly safe. And I think they've looked to the White House to get a toughened response if Iran is aggressive again

against the UAE and -- and -- and other countries.

Saudi Arabia is saying, look, we do want to push the diplomacy. We want the diplomacy to work. We want to see a de-escalation. But I think the region's

on tenterhooks because this is all about a conversation between the United States and Iran and the GCC countries are collateral in that -- in that

tension at the moment.

And the mediators here recognize that the longer it goes without bringing the two sides together, and ideally they'd like to have them around a

table, the whole thing unravels.

Their concern has always been, once I put down 10 issues and the other says, okay, well, we, if you're going to add those in, we're going to add

these other issues and you never get to the table. The delay by Iran, at the moment, does, however, seem to be intentional.

ASHER: All right. Nic Robertson, live for us. Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, health officials from around the globe are racing to contain the spread of a strain of Hantavirus after an outbreak aboard a

cruise ship.

ASHER: Three people have died. One big issue, dozens of passengers got off that ship late last month and are already home. Now, disease detectives

across the globe are tracking them down.

GOLODRYGA: That cruise ship, meanwhile, is now headed to Spain's Canary Islands and due to dock Sunday. About 150 passengers and crew on board will

be sent back to their home countries. Local port workers are already protesting.

ASHER: And from onboard the cruise ship, an American doctor has been talking about how he jumped in to help those who fell ill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. STEPHEN KORNFELD, CARED FOR SICK PASSENGERS ABOARD HANTAVIRUS HIT CRUISE SHIP: There are three patients that seem to be getting the ill

around the same time. One of them just very non-specific symptoms, a lot of confusion and a lot of weakness. And she ultimately passed away relatively

quickly.

The two other gentlemen, quite a bit younger, including the doc, just had a lot of standard viral symptoms. At the time, neither one of them looked

critically ill, but the fear with Hantavirus is you can go from seriously ill to critically ill very, very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: The ship started its journey from Argentina. And officials there are scrambling to see if the country is the source.

CNN's Ivan Sarmenti joins us now from Buenos Aires. Ivan, so on the one hand, a good sign is that this is not a virus that's as highly

transmittable as say the flu and COVID, but it does have an incubation time that could be significantly longer, perhaps even up to eight weeks.

So, how are health officials there trying to determine if in fact this outbreak originated in Argentina?

IVAN SARMENTI, CNN EN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Bianna. And as you say here in Argentina, the local ministry of health is currently reconstructing

the route taken by the couple identified as the index case of this Hantavirus outbreak.

[12:10:12]

Investigators are working to pinpoint the exact origin of the infection. Let's remember that the ship had sailed from Ushuaia, the southernmost city

in the world on April the 1st.

However, authorities have not yet confirmed that the contention occurred in Argentina. The virus has an incubation, as you said, an incubation period

of one-two-eight weeks, and the couple had recently traveled through other Latin American countries before arriving in Ushuaia.

And Ushuaia is the capital of Tierra del Fuego province, an island at the southern tip of the continent separated from the mainland. According to

authorities, there has never been a reported case of Hantavirus in the province.

Because of this, local residents we spoke with are highly surprised by the news. But until now, authorities also report 24 cases, so far, in 2026 all

over the country, and 101 during the last year. This figure is nearly doubled, the 57 cases reported in the previous period.

And the World Health Organization confirmed that the variant infecting the cruise passenger corresponds to the Andes strain, the only known to be

transmitted from person to person would circulate here in Argentina and Chile.

And the majority of cases are concentrated in the country's central region and the southern region has only 10 notified cases over the last year. But

these are in areas quite distant from Ushuaia.

They are located more than 80 mile -- 800 miles away from the port where the cruise set sail, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Ivan Sarmenti reporting live from Buenos Aires for us. Thank you.

ASHER: All right. U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer had vowed to stay in office following heavy losses for his Labour Party in England's local

election.

Despite a landslide victory just under two years ago, Starmer's popularity has shrunk. And the populist party, Reform U.K. is making major gains on

the local level with vote -- vote still being counted.

Its leader, Nigel Farage, poked fun at the prime minister today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIGEL FARAGE, REFORM U.K. LEADER: When you see the full results in the Red Wall, there will be a rebellion. Personally, I'd be very sad to see the

prime minister go. I -- I -- I would be very, very sad indeed. He's the greatest asset we've got.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Nada Bashir is joining us live now outside 10 Downing Street. Obviously, not a good day for the prime minister, just in terms of Labour's

losses.

But what I find very interesting is that when you read a lot of the analysis coming out of the U.K. today, it appears that this sort of post-

war two-party political landscape that the U.K. has been used to for many, many decades is -- could be, I don't want to say is, but could be now a

thing of the past.

You saw major gains from the Green Party, major gains from Reform U.K. What is causing this shift in -- in British politics, Nada?

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We are seeing a huge amount of fragmentation and splintering across the political landscape here in the

United Kingdom, shifting away from that dominant two-party system that we have, of course, seen over the last few decades.

Of course, this stage of the results are still coming in, but there has been that growing sense in the lead-up to these local elections that this

would be a crucial temperature check on the leadership, both of the prime minister and the governing Labour Party, but also of the second leading

Conservative Party, the Opposition Party as well.

And there has been that growing sense of disillusionment on a range of overarching political policies.

And important to underscore, of course, that these are local elections that we are focusing on -- on local councilors and mayors, for example.

But again, this does feel like a temperature check, almost on the leadership of the prime minister. And there certainly has been that growing

sense of distrust given the crisis that we have seen, Number 10, facing over the last few weeks in particular.

But, of course, as you mentioned, then we have seen that splintering as well. We've seen gains being made crucially by the Reform U.K. Party, which

appears to be making real waves across the political landscape, taking locations, of course, in constituencies that were considered part of the

Labour heartland in the -- in the North and in the Midlands.

And, of course, as you've mentioned, we've also seen the Green Party making significant gains as well.

But we have heard from the British prime minister, he has said that he will not walk away from his role as prime minister at this stage. But, of

course, he has acknowledged and admitted that these results are, in his words, tough. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STARMER: Let me be clear, these are really tough results. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. And we have lost brilliant Labour representatives, people

who've put so much into their communities, so much into our party and our movement.

And the voters have sent a message about the pace of change, how they want their lives improved. They were elected to meet those challenges. And I'm

not going to walk away from those challenges and plunge the country into chaos.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:15:13]

BASHIR: Now, of course, we are still waiting for further results to come in. There will be many eyes on the prime minister, on Number 10 waiting to

see whether any of that will increase the pressure on the prime minister.

But at this stage, when we look at the senior cabinet members of the Labour Party, there haven't been any major calls for a change at this stage, but

of course, there is still some time to go.

ASHER: Nada Bashir, live for us at Number 10. Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: For more on this, we're joined by Quentin Peel. He's the former foreign editor at the "Financial Times." Quentin, it's good to see you.

So Nigel Farage is calling this a, quote, historic shift. The Greens Party is saying, to Zain's point, this two-party politics is dead.

Is this a premature assessment? Or do you think this is becoming more of an understanding right now of the present-day reality of the political

environment in the U.K.?

QUENTIN PEEL, FORMER FOREIGN EDITOR, THE FINANCIAL TIMES: I think it is becoming a reality. We're really looking at, at least a five-party, split

in the vote in England.

And if you answer that, the Scottish nationalists-backed winning in Scotland, and the Welsh Nationalists for the first time have overturned the

huge Labour majority in Wales, you've actually got a very fragmented situation.

And it's a backlash against the center, which I think we're seeing actually right across Europe. You've got it in Germany. You've got it in France.

So in quite a lot of countries, voters seem to be going to the far left or the far right rather than the center.

ASHER: And just in terms of the sort of variant reasons as to why the Green Party and Nigel Farage's Reform U.K. is becoming more and more popular. Can

you give us the sort of various factors? And it's been 10 years since Brexit. Just explain to us why this sudden surge in now.

PEEL: Yes. Well, of course, there's one contradictory element to this, which is that in the 10 years since Brexit, actually a popular feeling

against Brexit has grown quite significantly. And yet, the party that really promoted Brexit, which is Reform U.K., seems to have done rather

well.

So, you -- you do have a contradiction there. Having said that, I think that Brexit was part of this process of splitting the country in a very

black and white way, not a traditional left and right way, but much more into sort of bad mood of politics.

So Reform U.K. is really quite a divisive party. And it -- it plays on issues like immigration, on sort of social issues and cultural issues,

which divides people.

So the thing about this result, I think, is it may not be as good for Reform U.K. in a national election as it is in a local election, because

there are as many people who really dislike them as people who like them. They are a divisive party.

GOLODRYGA: And Keir Starmer has proven to be quite divisive as well. He's saying that he won't walk away. Is this more of a problem with his own

policies? Or is this his personal brand of leadership that's really being questioned?

PEEL: I think it's his personal brand of leadership doesn't work very well. He's not got charisma. He's not good on television. And he also seems to be

really actually quite indecisive.

And I think when he was elected at the last general election with a big majority, but overwhelmingly because people said anything but the

Conservative Party. He -- he was elected on a backlash.

Now, he seems to be rather losing on a backlash because it's sort of anything but Labour. So, it is a rebellion if you like against whoever's in

power.

And therefore, if you're not in power, if you're a party of eternal opposition, like Reform, like the Greens, then you're picking up votes.

GOLODRYGA: Go ahead.

ASHER: Quentin Peel, thank you so much. We appreciate you coming to the show.

PEEL: Thanks for having me.

ASHER: All right. One year ago today, the Catholic Church got a new leader.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And as Pope Leo XIV reaches that one year milestone, he traveled to Pompeii and Naples today.

During a mass earlier, he asked God to inspire world leaders to embrace peace. In recent months, his frequent condemnation of the Iran war has

drawn the ire of Donald Trump.

Christopher Lamb looks back at Leo's first year as pope.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On a mission to cool the rhetoric.

[12:20:00]

POPE LEO XIV, HEAD OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: Mr. Secretary.

RUBIO: It's great to see you.

LAMB (voice-over): Secretary of State Marco Rubio meeting Pope Leo XIV, at a time when President Donald Trump has launched a series of broadsides

against the first American pontiff.

TRUMP: I think he's very weak on crime.

I'm not a fan of Pope Leo.

LAMB (voice-over): In what has been an extraordinary and unprecedented clash.

POPE LEO XIV: I don't want to get into a debate with him.

LAMB (voice-over): This meeting, an attempt to get back to old-fashioned diplomacy.

RUBIO: And it has the seal of the State Department, so.

POPE LEO XIV: Wow. OK.

LAMB (voice-over): Both sides, at least publicly, downplaying the verbal fisticuffs.

Officially, the pair discussing the situation in the Middle East and other conflicts, and a, quote, "shared commitment to promoting peace."

The Vatican saying Cuba was also discussed, with Rubio saying beforehand that was on the agenda.

RUBIO: They won't allow us to give their own people more humanitarian aid. And we're willing to do it through the church. So, there's a lot to talk

about.

LAMB (voice-over): But deep disagreements remain. Leo would likely speak out against any violent intervention in Cuba, and has been vocal in his

opposition to the Iran War, something which has irked the president.

TRUMP: The Pope would rather talk about the fact that it's OK for Iran to have a nuclear weapon. And I don't think that's very good. I think he's

endangering a lot of Catholics and a lot of people.

LAMB (voice-over): The Pope even correcting the record and showing no signs of backing down.

POLE LEO XIV (through translator): If anyone wants to criticize me for proclaiming the gospel, let them do so with the truth.

The church has spoken out against all nuclear weapons for years, so there is no doubt.

LAMB (voice-over): The first American pope's leadership has offered a stark contrast to the president, not just speaking out on war, but criticizing

the, quote, inhuman treatment of immigrants in the U.S. and calling for protection of the environment, and in a language the White House can

understand.

POPE LEO XIV: I'm told that President Trump recently stated that he would like to end the war. Hopefully, he's looking for an off-ramp.

LAMB (voice-over): Leo marking the one-year anniversary of his election, has said that he has no fear of the Trump administration and won't

compromise on the core message of his papacy, the desire to pursue peace.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: All right. Still to come, violent protests in South Africa raising serious concerns for nearby countries. Details ahead on the recent

xenophobic attacks.

GOLODRYGA: Plus, a porn website at the center of a CNN investigation is now offline. Details ahead on how Motherless became the subject of

international scrutiny.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:03]

GOLODRYGA: Well, some African countries are urging their citizens in South Africa to stay cautious because of recent xenophobic attacks.

ASHER: Yes. This comes amid a new wave of protests against illegal immigration. In some instances, the protests took a violent turn. Migrant

rights groups say that they are wrongfully being blamed for the country's economic problems, particularly unemployment, which hovers at around 30

percent.

Let's discuss all of this with Larry Madowo joining us live now from Nairobi. I mean, this has been going on in South Africa for quite some

time. I know that a lot of Nigerians have talked about the fact that, you know, the country is not safe for them. They do not feel rather that the

country is safe for them because you have a lot of people protesting out against immigration from certain countries.

Just explain to us why this is a source of ongoing tension in South Africa and how much does it have to do with economic issues in the country?

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It has everything to do with economic issues. And the people protesting against foreign migrants, especially

African foreign migrants in South Africa say these foreigners, these Africans are stealing their jobs. They also accuse them of dealing drugs

and other criminal acts. And they fear that the South African government has not done enough to stop illegal migration.

Part of the problem here is that South Africa's unemployment is at 30 percent. And in those cases where a lot of people are out of work, it's

easy to scapegoat the foreigners who they see around them running informal businesses, living next to them.

There have been weeks of protests in parts of South Africa and Johannesburg and Pretoria, in Durban, and other parts of the country against African

migrants whom they accuse of essentially taking up resources that are meant for them.

In some cases, these protests have turned violent. There's been videos of people getting beaten up.

The South African government says, South Africa is not xenophobic and it has condemned any violent attacks, any kind of people demanding documents

from African migrants saying that is the job of authorities.

But at the same time, the South African government says, there are real issues around illegal migration.

Ghana and Nigeria have specifically accused South Africa of being xenophobic, of attacking other African migrants despite the fact that

Africa supported South Africa during the fight against apartheid.

Right now, you have several African countries apart from Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, Malawi, Lesotho, and Zimbabwe asking their citizens in South Africa

to be vigilant.

Here's the South African government's response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHUMBUDZO NTSHAVHENI, MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY OF SOUTH AFRICA: Advisories are issued left to right and center by all sorts of countries,

all kinds of countries every year, every time. And it does -- it doesn't change the price of bread. The price of bread is that South Africa has lost

that must be respected, that must be applied to by all citizens and non- citizens.

And we're saying those who are undocumented must do the right thing also. But what's worse is those that are involved in criminality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADOWO: They must do the right thing. That is the minister in the presidency in South Africa. She also said some of the videos that have been

circulating of African migrants being beaten up in South Africa are either fake or A.I. generated.

Ghana has written to the African Union asking for it to discuss xenophobia in South Africa, and to send a fact-finding mission to the country. The

South African foreign minister has responded saying, while it's open to any kind of engagement on this issue, it regrets that Ghana has -- has

escalated this problem, when South Africa has been very welcoming. It has more than three million immigrants. Ninety percent of them are from African

countries.

So, it holds the largest amount of Africans anywhere in the world. And so the South African government once again saying, they're not xenophobic, but

these people who are matching have a right to protest against what they see as essentially illegal immigration gone too far and squeezing regular South

Africans.

ASHER: All right. Larry Madowo, live for us there. Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: Well, Dutch authorities say the controversial porn website, Motherless, is going dark and that a preliminary investigation has begun.

Public attention had focused on the site after CNN and other journalists investigated content allegedly linked to gender-based violence and drug-

facilitated sexual assault.

Here's part of CNN's report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Huge numbers of explicit sleep videos are being uploaded online by users who claim it's non-consensual. One

website profiting from this is motherless.com.

Last year, we began investigating a porn site that gets over 60 million visits a month, focusing on the thousands of videos featuring women who

appear unconscious during sex acts.

Most of its users are based in the U.S. It's home to so-called sleep content with hundreds of thousands of views.

One popular hashtag is "eye check," a way of proving a woman is asleep.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Motherless servers are located in the Netherlands. As of Thursday evening, the website appears to have been taken offline.

[12:30:02]

Dutch authorities say there has been mountain pressure to take the site down.

We'll be right back with more after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: All right. Welcome back to "One World." I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. Let's take timeout in stressful times. It can be easy to turn devices, like, of course, alcohol or smoking, to get through

or take the edge off. It turns out many Americans though are doing just the opposite.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Poll taken last year shows only 54 percent of American adults drink alcohol. And when asked if they smoked a cigarette in the last

week, only 11 percent said yes.

Now, these are good headlines, but the decline in numbers can be attributed to the younger generation taking control of their health with interest in

healthy eating, weight loss, beauty and mental health on the rise. The wellness industry is a $6 trillion business and is expected to keep

growing.

ASHER: To talk more about this, let's bring in mindset -- mindset expert and neuroscientist, Dr. Tara Swart. Her latest book is called, "The Signs:

The New Science of How to Trust Your Instincts." Dr. Swart, thank you so much for being with us. I'm so excited to have you on the show.

One of the things I do want to talk to you about is this idea of mindset because you are a neuroscientist after all.

Two days ago, and I'm not sure if you heard this, but the founder of CNN, Ted Turner, passed away and he was 87.

And one of the things that I think is so fascinating about this man's life is this idea of persistence, of mental resilience. He started CNN in 1980

at a time when everybody said that a 24-hour news network was never going to succeed, that it was going to fail. People laughed at him, people

ridiculed him, and it took 11 years until 1991 to when the Gulf War happened, to when his bet finally paid off.

[12:35:03]

And one of the things I think is really interesting is that most people would not have the stamina to keep going for 11 years. Eleven years of

being laughter, 11 years of being told, you're going to fail.

Most people would give up, I mean, I know -- for me, I would probably give up after the first six months. Where does that come from? That ability to

say, you know what, I don't care what people think. I am completely immune to external validation.

And I have a very, very high tolerance and high ability or high capacity for risk. That is one of the most overlooked ingredients, I think, in terms

of achieving your goals, this idea of really not caring what people think. Take it away, Dr. Swart.

DR. TARA SWART, NEUROSCIENTIST: Wow, there's a lot there. That's a very impressive story. And for people who have experienced that loss, that's

exactly what my book, "The Signs" is about. It is about receiving signs from beyond or the universe.

But to answer your question, there's quite a few things here. So, there's a sort of a scale of motivation. And motivation is one of our six ways of

thinking. So, there's logical thinking, emotional thinking, physicality, so messages from your body, creative thinking, intuitive thinking and

motivation.

So knowing what really makes you get up in the morning and want to do the things that people are laughing at you for or saying that you shouldn't do

or that you're going to fail on, that -- building up that pathway to be really strong is very important. And it often comes from childhood.

So interestingly, a small amount of stress or trauma in childhood can actually make us more resilient. Whereas obviously too much can make people

very stressed and anxious.

So, maybe channeling something that you've experienced and, you know, giving yourself that data that it's made you more resilient.

I also talk about the difference between resilience and mental toughness. So, resilience, I define as the ability to bounce back from something bad

happening or, you know, bad news or bad narrative from people.

And mental toughness is never allowing yourself to go like beyond that ability to cope with things. And like with anything, neuroplasticity, which

says that our brains can grow and change throughout life at any stage, any age, any mindset means that you can train yourself to become better at

those things.

GOLODRYGA: Dr. Swart, great to have you on the program. I know that you train top executives and business leaders on how to achieve peak brain

performance.

If you were to talk to our audience about some lessons they can take away from that as well because the question of nature versus nurture inevitably

comes up, can peak brain performance be taught?

SWART: Absolutely. And it really starts (COUGH) sorry, with some very basic things like sleep, diet, hydration, exercise and how you manage your

stress.

So, a lot of people will look at things like, should I take supplements or should I do fasting? But I always say, if you don't have those basics

right, there's not really much pointing anything else.

So, it's, you know, getting eight hours of good quality sleep a night, eating a balanced, varied diet, drinking enough water, that affects your

memory and your concentration, making sure that your breathing normally and deeply because stress makes us breathe in a shallow way or hold our breath.

So looking at all of those things.

And then stress management is really the most important one because it's the stress that will kill you in the end. Stress kills off neurons in the

brain.

So learning ways to manage that, whether it's through breath work, meditation, time and nature, time with the people that you love, though

it's really important to focus on those things.

ASHER: I loved what you said earlier about the fact that having a difficult childhood in some ways can be quite useful. And I say that very delicately

because obviously, as you point out, it is this very, very fine line. You know, you -- you wanna have a childhood that does help you with generating

emotional resilience. But obviously, if you have too much of a difficult childhood, of course, it can be too much to overcome.

One of the things that I think is also interesting, going back to the founder of CNN, Ted Turner, is that he did also have a very difficult

childhood. He had a father that was -- he talked about being very volatile. He also lost his father to suicide, I believe, in his early 20s. He also

lost his sister. There was a lot of childhood trauma.

And what childhood trauma, again, if it's not too much, can do, it can allow you to withstand emotional pain.

And so this idea of being able to pursue your goals without caring what anybody thinks, which again, I think is so crucial to it because a lot of

people talk about success in relationship to hard work and in relationship to persistence.

And, you know, there's -- there's various sort of threads that go into what makes a person successful.

But this idea of having a high tolerance for embarrassment, for social disapproval, and you see that with so many visionary founders, is something

that I don't think is talked about enough.

[12:40:03]

So this idea that you can develop that trait, I mean, again, if you -- it's quite difficult to achieve extraordinary success if you care too much about

what people think of you because you're not going to be willing to take the necessary risks.

So, in terms of this particular trait, how do you start from the ground up to develop it within yourself, if you are someone who cares a lot about

what people think of you?

SWART: These are such brilliant questions. I'm really enjoying this. So, a few things have come to my mind.

When I was like working with these leaders, I would show them a table because Freudian psychology said that whatever age you have a disruption at

during your childhood, this is what's going to be wrong with you for the rest of your life.

Whereas his student, Erikson, and you -- you can Google this, this -- there's psychosocial stages of childhood development said that wherever

there was a disruption, there was a potential vice, but there was also a virtue.

So, for a lot of these industry leaders, the stress or trauma was usually around the ages of five to seven. And the vice and the virtue for that for

that age group is inferiority versus industry. And industry by meaning working hard.

So, often, these people have a very strong work -- work ethic. And like you said, a high-risk appetite as well.

So, for people to try to bring this into their own life, it's -- it's really about connection. So that's connection to yourself. So, having a

regulated nervous system, having, you know, a sense of the connection between your mind and your body and not feeling so cut off from your body

and not listening to signals that your body gives you and kind of, you know, embracing all of your senses to experience the world.

And then it's about connection to others because our sense of belonging and the community of people that we have around us have a really big impact on

us through something called social contagion.

So, you know, you're likely to be as hardworking or as successful as the people that you spend the most time with, not always, but it's an

influence.

And then what's really interesting from neuroscience and the connection between science and spirituality is a connection to something greater or --

and/or having a purpose that transcends yourself.

So, I -- I wish if we could ask Ted that there was something that he believed, something that he thought was so important that it was worth

going through that 11 years of struggle.

Yes, I wish we knew. Maybe you know, Zain.

ASHER: No. I -- I -- I wish I could have spent time with him, you know, sadly wasn't able to. But, you know, he's somebody that really has inspired

so many of us and --

GOLODRYGA: It's quintessential American maverick. That was -- that was his story.

ASHER: There's so many lessons to take away from his life, you know, beyond just the fact that he founded CNN. Just that particular mindset, that

emotional resilience, that ability to withstand pain, that ability to withstand ridicule, for 11 years, is something that I think all of us can

learn from.

Dr. Tara Swart, thank you so much for being with us.

GOLODRYGA: That does it for "One World" today.

SWART: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: I'm Zain Asher. "African Voices" is up next.

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(AFRICAN VOICES)

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