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One World with Zain Asher
Lawmakers Want Answers About Conditions on USS Abraham Lincoln; Wildfires Rage as Europe Battles Fifth Heat Wave of Year; Record Rainfall Claims 8 Lives in Japan, Strands Thousands; Taiwan Runs Drills to Prepare for Possible China Attack; I.C.E. Tactics Cause Concern Among Law Enforcement Agencies; I.C.E. Plans to Spend Up to $20 Million on Electric Shock Gloves. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired August 14, 2026 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST, ONE WORLD: All right, coming to you live from New York, I'm Zain Asher. Bianna is off today. You are watching "One World".
Still to come on the show, Luigi Mangione is back in court, where sources say he might plead guilty to federal charges tied to the fatal shooting of
a United Healthcare CEO.
And a new USS carrier strike group heads to the Middle East after reports of worsening conditions on the USS Abraham Lincoln. And the Trump
Administration's crackdown on immigration is under new scrutiny with controversial tactics, back in the spotlight after several recent
incidents.
All right, happening soon, Luigi Mangione is expected to return to court for a quickly scheduled hearing. Our sources tell us that he could plead
guilty to federal charges tied to the killing of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Mangione led police on a five-day man hunt after he
allegedly gunned down Thompson on a New York City sidewalk in December of 2024.
The 28-year-old, who faces charges in both federal and state courts previously pleaded not guilty in both cases. Under the most serious federal
charges, he faces life in prison. We'll continue following the story and bring you any updates as they come in. And a little later this hour, we'll
get some perspective on this case from a legal expert as well.
All right. The U.S. is sending another carrier group to the Middle East amid mountain scrutiny over deteriorating conditions and growing mental
health concerns for sailors aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln. One U.S. official told CNN the swap was planned. But in recent days reports have
emerged of food shortages, water contamination, plumbing issues aboard the Lincoln, which has been deployed for a grueling nine months and counting.
And among the roughly 5000 sailors and marines on the carrier, we're learning that several have actually attempted to jump overboard, and one
succeeded but was quickly rescued. Democrats are demanding answers, but the Pentagon is pushing back with the Defense Secretary implying that the
reports are distorted.
Speaking to Newsmax, Pete Hegseth didn't address the conditions on board, and he didn't say when the warship would return stateside.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Yeah, completely misrepresented. Listen, we make sure that every ship, every crew, every captain has
everything we can provide them at every single moment. Some deployments are longer than others, and I have more respect and gratitude for those sailors
than anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: CNN's Brian Todd joins us live now from Washington. I mean, a lot of people found these reports very distressing. I mean, this idea that those
on-board Abraham Lincoln, you know, might be attempting to jump overboard because the conditions are so dire.
Reports have emerged, as I mentioned, of food shortages, water contamination, plumbing issues. Not to mention the very lengthy deployment.
What is the Defense Department doing to make these long deployments that much more bearable, Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, at least in this instant, Zain, they are sending the USS George Washington carrier strike group over to relief
the USS Abraham Lincoln, but that was previously scheduled. Getting back to the main body of this, this is new reporting from our colleagues Pamela
Brown and Ross Adkin.
They cite 3 U.S. officials saying a sailor on board the aircraft carrier the USS Abraham Lincoln did go overboard earlier this month. Two of the
officials tell CNN that sailor was quickly rescued and was medically evaluated. One official said the sailor went overboard wearing a life vest
and was not injured.
The official added that the navy considered the incident a mental health episode. One official said the sailor was recovered by an air wing search
and rescue helicopter. That they received treatment on board, then they were transferred off the ship for follow-on care. Now, this incident, which
has not been previously reported, adds to the growing concerns about the crew on board the USS Abraham Lincoln.
The news outlets "Stars and Stripes" and the "Navy Times" reported this week that there had been multiple attempts by crew members on the Lincoln
to jump overboard. Those outlets cited interviews with sailors and families of those on board who described the impacts of a very lengthy deployment.
[11:05:00]
Now, since the Lincoln left its home port of San Diego, and that was last November. It's been deployed for more than 250 days after being redirected
to the Middle East to take part in the war with Iran, according to Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal, who sits on the Armed Services
Committee.
The Lincoln has not made a port call in more than 200 days. That's about 6.5 months. And just a short time ago, he said it was more like 250 days.
The "Navy Times" and "Stars and Stripes" report that about a week ago, around 200 family members of the sailors on board the Lincoln voiced
concerns over the sailors' mental health and safety conditions when they met at a town hall meeting in San Diego with Acting Navy Secretary Hung Cao
and other senior officials.
The "Stars and Stripes" reported that during that town hall, one spouse was in tears when she said she had received a message that same day from her
husband saying quote, he hopes he doesn't wake up tomorrow, end quote. In a statement to CNN, the U.S. Navy said this quote, we have not observed an
increase in suicidal ideations or attempts aboard the ship.
We take every service member's well-being seriously and have religious, medical, and mental health professionals available to assess and address
concerns as they arise. One U.S. official told CNN the navy's internal tracking of reports of suicidal ideation on the ship had actually gone down
in recent months.
As I mentioned earlier, right now the aircraft carrier strike group, the USS George Washington, is on its way to the region to relief the Abraham
Lincoln. The George Washington, it's not clear when it'll get there, Zain, it just left the Pacific region just a short time ago.
ASHER: All right, Brian Todd, live for us there. Thank you so much. All right, a maritime intelligence group says there is no genuinely safe route
for commercial ships attempting to navigate in and around the Persian Gulf region. This, as U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says, Washington is
preparing new measures against Iran to isolate the country's economically on a scale that has never been seen, according to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: Watch this space for more announcements coming next week because we are going to apply measures like
have never been seen in the history of economic isolation on a country. It will be a combination of economic isolation like the world has never seen
before.
And the continued blockade in the Strait of Hormuz that will keep anything from going in or out of the Iranian ports.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Meantime, more vessels have come under fire in the Strait of Hormuz. The UAE says two of its ships were attacked Thursday. The maritime
intelligence firm Kpler says that traffic through the critical waterway is still incredibly limited. They say that just 13 ships crossed the strait
Thursday.
Houthi attacks in the Red Sea area, the other key trade route, are also choking traffic as well. Oil prices are now trending up amid the stalemates
over the Iran war. Brent crude hovered nearly $88 a barrel. Right now, let's see here, oil prices, Brent crude specifically, is at $87 a barrel,
WTI is at $81 a barrel.
Right, happening now, several European countries facing both record- breaking heat and multiple wildfires as well. In Croatia, 14 people were taken to hospital after a fire raged overnight in the town of Omis. More
than 1,000 people had to evacuate the area, and after surviving the hottest day of the year on Thursday, wildfires are racing across parts of the UK.
This includes the West Midlands, where several houses were actually burned to the ground. Meantime, this drone video shows the extent of a drought in
Hungary. Hungary's government is working to build a riverbed, still in hopes of raising water levels. This construction is urgently needed in
order to ensure cooling for the Paks Nuclear Plant.
While Europe is in the grip of a powerful heat wave, Japan is dealing with its own extreme weather, deadly floods, as well. Chiba City is one of the
worst hit spots. Authorities there say record rainfall has left eight people dead. In just one day parts of the region received nearly three
times the average August rainfall.
At one point, around 7000 passengers were stranded at Tokyo's Narita Airport. Similar scenes can be found in parts of the America -- parts of
America's Midwestern region. Indiana's governor has declared a statewide disaster emergency. This after experiencing a one in 1000-year rainfall on
Wednesday.
Today, Iowa and Illinois face the greatest risk of flooding rain. Let's discuss all of these developments with our Chief Climate Correspondent,
Bill Weir. I mean, obviously the situation sounds dire, especially in Europe. Europe is actually heating twice as fast, warming twice as fast as
any other continent on the planet right now.
[11:10:00]
And obviously they are ill-equipped for this kind of heat wave and repeated heat wave we've seen across the summer. Just explain to us why that is and
what Europe can do to step up.
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the split screen that you're seeing there, Zain, from around the world really perfectly
illustrates what UCLA Climate Scientist Daniel Swain calls a weather whiplash as the planet overheats, as the jet stream, the wind band of wind
at the top of the Earth gets wobbly and creates these heat domes that just sit for a week at a time.
What happens is you get super wet winters, which create a lot of fresh vegetation, and then comes just scorchingly hot, dry summers, and now it
turns all of that to fire fuel, and you're seeing that around the world. There are over 40,000 wildfires burning on planet Earth right now.
24,000 of them, more than that, are critical. But at the same time, you've got these flooding scenarios happening around the world. It's too much
water, or not nearly enough. And the worst news is that the super El Nino, this blob of warm water that occurs naturally every two to seven years,
hasn't even really kicked off yet.
It's just getting going. So, the recent scorching heat waves you've had in Europe, that is not the result of this super El Nino that the scientists
think. That's going to peak later in the fall and through the winter and for the next year, give us a glimpse, maybe, of what life at two degrees of
global warming looks like.
Right now, we're at about 1.5, which was supposed to be humanity's red line, but of course, the politics around this topic has changed so much.
You got to wonder, Zain, if we just seen that just that murderous row of examples you just showed us, if that had happened 10 years ago, if it would
have sparked the kind of mass climate action we saw when Greta Thunberg was in the streets, and that laws have changed to prevent those kind of
protests.
Politics has changed, especially in the United States, where the president ignores all of this and is almost has animus against any action, you know,
where we would be. But this is the time when the best we can say is buckle up and prepare because it may be getting a lot worse for the next year or
so.
ASHER: Yeah, such an important point about how the political environment has changed dramatically over the past few years. All right, Bill Weir live
for us there. Thank you so much. All right, turning now to Taipei, empty streets and air raid warnings as Taipei wraps up its largest ever military
and civilian preparedness exercise, a drill aimed at getting people ready for potential conflict with China.
CNN's Will Ripley has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Taiwan's capital, a jarring reminder of how quickly things can change.
Every phone gets the same alert, missile attack. Seek immediate shelter. In less than two minutes, Taipei is silent.
This may be a drill, but it doesn't feel like one. China's military is actively training in the waters and skies around Taiwan, practicing
blockades, joint combat operations, and rocket strikes.
RIPLEY: It's surreal to see the busiest intersection in Taipei or at least one of them totally dead. Everybody is pulled over and hunkering down
underground or inside.
RIPLEY (voice-over): On top of that, mobile internet slows to a crawl. Sending a text takes several minutes, testing how Taiwan could cope if its
communications came under fire. These are the island's biggest annual military exercises. The major focus this year? Preparing the entire society
for what a Chinese attack could really be like.
BEN LEWIS, CO-FOUNDER, PLA TRACKER: It's very likely that in the event of an invasion, China is going to strike critical infrastructure in Taiwan,
but also use its cyber capabilities to degrade Taiwan's network connections in an attempt to cause chaos.
RIPLEY (voice-over): PLA Tracker co-founder Ben Lewis traveled from Washington to observe all 10 days of Taiwan's drills.
LEWIS: The United States has a very significant interest in ensuring that Taiwan can stand and fight on its own, to, you know, ensure that there is a
deterrent against China that doesn't totally rely on U.S. intervention.
RIPLEY (voice-over): And increasingly, many Taiwanese believe they may have to stand alone. One recent survey found less than a quarter of voters here
see the United States as a trustworthy ally.
RIPLEY: Do you trust that the U.S. would defend Taiwan if China were to attack?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taiwanese also, they need to believe in themselves. Like, no matter if Trump or the USA, they will help us, we still need to
have the courage to do some action.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think not because Trump is the president. He prioritizes his interests. America's interests first. Plus, if you just
watch what's going on in Iran, you'll know that the U.S. is not reliable. I also don't think we can rely on the U.S.
[11:15:00]
RIPLEY (voice-over): A tiny democracy preparing for war with a superpower, a war Taiwan hopes will never come, but is preparing to fight with or
without American help.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIPLEY (on camera): This drill comes as Beijing ramps up pressure on Taiwan, taking steps that stop just short of war, sending ships and Coast
Guard vessels farther into the Pacific, and increasingly challenging American power in this region. And now, with the U.S. tied up in Iran with
no end in sight, Taiwan is preparing for the possibility it may have to hold out on its own, making these drills and preparing the entire society
for a crisis all the more urgent.
Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.
ASHER: All right, still to come here on "One World", a new controversial video is sparking debate about tactics used by I.C.E. officers. Details
ahead on the tense confrontation in Virginia.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right, now to an issue that has dominated headlines all year: escalating tensions between U.S. citizens and I.C.E. officers. The latest
confrontation involves a woman in Virginia who had a gun pointed at her by an I.C.E. agent. Jason Carroll has more on that exchange and the agency's
new controversial tactics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A tense exchange between I.C.E. agents and a woman in Virginia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You almost ran us over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't almost --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You almost ran us over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop playing -- Stop playing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are --
CARROLL (voice-over): The Department of Homeland Security now describes her as an anti-I.C.E. agitator they accuse of trying to weaponize her car
against their agents, but the woman in question, Carolina Molina, says her dashcam video shows what really happened.
The incident took place on Monday. That's when Molina says she saw agents handcuff two Latino men and escort them to an unmarked car. She rolled down
her window and shouted insults at the officers. Molina says she turned around and tried to drive away, and that's when she says I.C.E. agents
blocked her in with their cars, and an agent drew his weapon.
Part of that confrontation captured on her dashcam.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will arrest you. Keep it up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a legal citizen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't matter.
CARROLL (voice-over): The Department of Homeland Security giving a much different account of what happened, saying in part, while I.C.E. was
conducting targeted immigration enforcement in Falls Church, Virginia, an anti-I.C.E. agitator began to drive her car in circles around our I.C.E.
officers.
[11:20:00]
And then attempted to harm officers by weaponizing her vehicle against them, all in an attempt to help illegal aliens get away. Fearing for their
safety, I.C.E. officers conducted a vehicle stop of the driver.
RYAN SCHWANK, FORMER ASSISTANT COUNSEL OF U.S. IMMIGRATION & CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: When I hear this story, is that this is exactly one of the
scenarios that we train the officers to address at the academy?
CARROLL (voice-over): Ryan Schwank spent four years working at I.C.E. as an assistant chief counsel.
SCHWANK: We trained them in what we call roving vehicle stops on how to deal with in agitators or individuals who show up and yell insults or slurs
at the officers. What we taught them when I was there is those people have every right to do that. These officers were agitated and upset, and they
took it out on this individual.
CARROLL (voice-over): This latest incident coming in the wake of other controversial I.C.E. encounters, some of them deadly. Last month, I.C.E.
agents accused a man of weaponizing his vehicle during a targeted traffic stop in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Surveillance video obtained by WGAL
showed officers had boxed in the SUV.
An agent fired a shot as the vehicle drove away. Law enforcement experts criticize how I.C.E. responded. The incident occurred just days before an
I.C.E. agent fatally shot a 52-year-old man during a car stop in Houston. Less than a week later, another I.C.E. agent killed a 25-year-old man
during a vehicle stop in Maine.
Neither of those victims was the intended target of I.C.E. operations. In a report released last month, the ACLU reviewed more than 1,200 incidents of
immigration enforcement in 2025 across eight states, identifying 432 incidents involving misconduct by agents. 418 incidents were people who
were pushed, shoved, tackled, or pinned.
128 involved threatened force, including brandishing weapons. 82 involved agents using their cars, such as boxing in or hitting other people's cars.
Adding to concerns over I.C.E. tactics comes word I.C.E. has approved a plan to spend millions on electric shock gloves.
TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: It's another device, you know, to help someone be compliant, whether or not, you know, you just can't go from 0 to
100, right? And first thing you go for is lethal force.
CARROLL (voice-over): Critics worry the devices will be misused. Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: All right, my next guest is the Former Acting Director of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement ICE, John Sandweg joins us live now
from Phoenix, Arizona. John, thank you so much for being with us. So, we've all heard this story, this idea of you knows this woman in Virginia who was
-- she was insulting the officers, but she did not, based on the video, try to use her vehicle as a weapon.
And then you have I.C.E. agents pointing a gun at her, accusing her of trying to do just that. When you have a situation whereby an I.C.E. officer
makes obviously verifiable, based on video, false statements accusing someone of essentially trying to harm them when that person did not.
What should happen to that I.C.E. agent?
JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE U.S. IMMIGRATION & CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Well, first, I mean to be fair here, we're seeing just initial
videos of it, and you do want to make sure that you take a comprehensive look at everything, a full, thorough investigation.
Of course, we've seen a number of these situations though, where these statements, and frankly, not just statements from the individual officers,
but the department itself, appear contradicted by those videos. Traditionally, what would happen here is any time there's an incident, a
firearm is withdrawn.
Certainly, if it's fired, that there needs to be reporting made, including to either the Office of Professional Responsibility at I.C.E., and in many
of those cases, the inspector general's office, and an investigation is conducted. Obviously, if you find that an officer, you know, made false
statements in there, you have to send a message and you have to terminate that individual.
And in some cases, they're criminally prosecuted. Unfortunately, we've seen a real rush very quickly to defend these I.C.E. officers in each and every
one of these incidents. And you know it's incredibly unusual for the department to be kicking out these statements, kind of establishing without
any investigation whatsoever, and with just based on preliminary reports that the officers' use of force was justified.
And unfortunately, I do think that kind of this erosion of that culture can contribute to more of these incidents happening.
ASHER: I.C.E., the presence of I.C.E. agents in many communities across the country has always brought with it a level of fear, right?
SANDWEG: Of course.
ASHER: And you know, I'm a U.S. citizen, but I come from a family of immigrants. And even if the presence is legitimate, right? When I.C.E.
agents enter certain communities, there is a level of fear. But now, beyond just fear, there is now a level of distrust. There's a level of anger and
deep, deep resentment.
You know, this agency doesn't have any credibility left because an I.C.E. agent might say one thing, and maybe it's true, maybe it's not true.
[11:25:00]
And if you don't have video evidence, you know, God help you, essentially. So just walk us through. If you were still in charge of I.C.E., you were
acting director at one point. If you were still in charge of I.C.E., what would you be doing differently to restore that credibility?
SANDWEG: Oh, I mean, I think there's a lot of different things going on here, right? First of all, we're asking these agents to do things that they
haven't done certainly not over the last six years, and really, frankly, throughout the agency's history. We've pushed them out into doing more
enforcement in our cities, where they're interacting with the public at a much greater extent.
And these vehicular stops, although they receive some basic training on how to do these vehicular stops, historically just hasn't been a large part of
what I.C.E. has done. And then you're right, you're compounding that by not just again the actions of the individual officers, but a lot of that
credibility gap has been formed by the department itself.
You know, after the tragic shootings in Minneapolis, the department was very quickly come out and characterized those incidents in a way that would
later really appear to be undercut by the videos of the incidents. But I think the first thing you need to do is pivot on these tactics, right?
And let me back up. I do think another big part of it is who they're arresting these days. You know, the administration says we're focused on
the worst of the worst, but everybody sees in the data, and so many of these cases involve individuals who have no criminal history whatsoever.
I think you know. Listen, for the agency's perspective, what's best for the agency in order to let it get back to being a public safety organization,
you need to pivot those tactics and get back to doing more targeted operations that are focused on serious criminals.
Focusing first on a prioritized approach, where truly you go after the worst first, not trying to grab as many people as possible, not engaged in
kind of filling arbitrary quotas that were set by the White House, but rather looking at the quality of individuals, getting those individuals
pose a threat to the United States, and doing it in a cautious, careful manner.
I mean, that is just -- but honestly, Zain, to answer your question, would take so many different things that need to be done differently. But that's
where I begin right there.
ASHER: Yeah, and I mean, there are so many other things that I wanted to talk to you about, including the conditions at I.C.E. dissension centers,
where people have, of course, died. People being released from I.C.E. detention centers at bus stops in the freezing cold, and then dying of
hypothermia.
I mean, the list goes on. But yes, as you point out, it wouldn't just be one thing, right? The agency obviously is in a crisis right now, and there
is a massive credibility problem. John Sandweg, live for us. Thank you so much.
SANDWEG: Yeah, thank you.
ASHER: And still to come -- Of course, still to come here on "One World". Breaking news out of a Manhattan courthouse. We'll bring you the latest on
the Luigi Mangione plea hearing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
ASHER: All right, welcome back to "One World". I'm Zain Asher in New York. Here are some of the headlines we are watching today. The U.S. is sending
another aircraft carrier to the Middle East to replace the USS Abraham Lincoln. An official tells CNN the swap was planned.
However, it comes amid reports of deteriorating conditions and mental health issues among sailors on board, the Lincoln following a record-
breaking uninterrupted time at sea. Right now, Europe remains in the grip of a powerful heat wave after surviving the hottest day of the year
Thursday.
Wildfires are racing across parts of the UK. This includes the West Midlands, where several houses were burned. At least eight people died when
a powerful rainstorm swept across Japan's Chiba Prefecture overnight, bursting riverbanks, flooding homes, and submerging cars.
Record-breaking rain has also left thousands of travelers stranded at Tokyo's Narita Airport. Italian police have recovered three paintings by
French masters stolen from a museum near the City of Parma. Back in March, by burglars who forced open the front door, Italy's cultural heritage
protection unit recovered the works of Cezanne, Matisse, and Renoir.
This video shows the theft took less than three minutes. Art experts say the estimated value of these paintings exceeded 9 million Euros. All right.
Breaking news out of New York. Luigi Mangione has just said that he is prepared to plead guilty. He's the man who faces federal stalking charges
connected to the fatal shooting of United Health Care CEO Brian Thompson.
His lawyers have been in plea negotiations in a Manhattan federal court room with prosecutors today, the 28-year-old Mangione still faces several
state charges, including murder. Joining us live now is Former State and Federal Prosecutor David Weinstein.
He's also a partner at Jones Walker LLP. David, thank you so much for being with us. So, this is just -- there's a lot of things that we need to sort
of make clear for the audience as it pertains to this guilty plea. First of all, why the guilty plea is significant? What it means for potentially the
federal trial, but I think more importantly what it means for the state trial because that is where he's facing second degree murder charges?
DAVID WEINSTEIN, FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, Zain, thanks for having me on and allowing me to explain this to everyone. What's important about this
plea is that he's pleading guilty to a series of acts that took place in New York State that resulted in the death of his victim.
Now, in federal court, these are stalking charges. The primary one being the one that they've charged in count one of the indictments, and he's
pleading guilty to both of these counts. We haven't heard yet what his deal is. He faces a sentence of up to life in prison, and it can also be any
term of years.
I suspect that his lawyers are going to argue for something less than life in prison. And as to your second question, the impact on the state case
that's pending, where he's charged with murder, is very important to look at. New York State has a law that bars prosecution in that state if the
crime involves facts that are similar or identical to ones that have been closed in another jurisdiction, most states state charges go separate than
federal charges, but not in New York State.
So, it has a great deal of impact on his case is set to go to trial on September 8th, and that's what's going to be litigated next after he's done
with his change of plea.
ASHER: So, the question then becomes, I mean, this very strong double jeopardy law that New York has are the two cases, federal and state,
dissimilar enough for that double jeopardy law to stand.
WEINSTEIN: Zain, only based on the charges, the facts they're identical, and it's going to be important to hear what he agrees to in his proffer of
facts and what he stipulated to in the federal case, and hear what those facts are, because they are, I suspect, going to be identical to the facts
that the state is going to present in the murder case.
[11:35:00]
Now there are exceptions to New York's double jeopardy law, and it'll be incumbent on the prosecution to try to distinguish the crimes, not the
facts, but the crimes, and that's where the arguments are really going to be heavy.
ASHER: And just to backtrack for our audience, you know, obviously this is CNN International, so we have people watching from all around the world who
might not necessarily have been following. I mean, a lot of us do remember what happened back in December 2024, when you had Luigi Mangione
essentially shoot this sort of healthcare CEO at point blank range in Midtown Manhattan, and then we had this five-day man hunt ensue afterwards.
You now end up having two separate cases. You have the federal case whereby he is charged with stalking. Stalking in a way that has led to a person's
death, and a state case where he's charged with second degree murder. Just explain why there are two cases here.
WEINSTEIN: In the United States, we have dual sovereigns. We have the federal system, where people can be charged with violations of federal
crimes, and those courts exist in every state. We also have separate and distinct state jurisdictions, and in any state in the United States, you
can prosecute a person for a crime that violates state law.
Now, normally, there are very few murder cases that can be brought in federal court. There are a few, and initially this fell into one of those
crimes. But those charges were dismissed, and all that was left in the federal prosecution were the two stalking charges. Routinely, what happens
is that a state proceeds on a more severe crime.
In this case, murder, and then the feds will come in, and they will see what's left and see if it's worth prosecuting. But they move together, sort
in parallel with each other. But once one has been resolved, the other usually backs off. Now, again, in New York State, they have a law that says
you can't be tried twice for the same crime that arose out of the same facts.
That's not the same in every other state, and so arguably, if this had occurred in a different state, the state would be arguing, no, we have a
murder statute here. That's what's going to control. It's very nice that he accepted responsibility and pled guilty to the federal charges, but we have
a separate charge.
But that's not what's going on here. In New York State, the rules are different.
ASHER: Charges that he is facing, both on the federal level and the state level. Obviously, I've talked about the stalking charges, stalking in a way
that has led to a person's death. I've talked about the sort of the charge that everybody's focused on in the state case, which is of course the
second-degree murder.
But beyond that, what are the other charges that Luigi Mangione is facing here?
WEINSTEIN: Well, if we look at the federal statute, there's a second charge related to stalking, and that's the way they brought this crime into
federal court. He used interstate commerce to facilitate the first stalking charge. He used his cell phone and made some calls, and then traveled in
interstate commerce.
In the state case, in addition to the second-degree murder count, which carries penalty of 25 years to life. He's also charged with multiple counts
of possession of a weapon, as well as possession of forged instruments. Those are all much less severe in terms of the punishment he could receive.
So that's why everyone's focusing on the first stalking charge in federal court, and then the second-degree murder charge in state court. Different
elements for each of these crimes. Nobody disputes that, but the issue here with New York State is, do these crimes arise out of the same exact facts,
and will the facts be the same to convict in federal court as well as in state court?
ASHER: My producer just mentioned to me that Luigi Mangione is actually speaking right now in the courtroom. We have reporters in the courtroom.
Obviously, we don't have video of him speaking, but he is speaking right now, describing the actions that he took ahead of Brian Thompson's murder,
December 2024.
So, when it comes to pleading guilty, we expect, based on what we know so far, he hasn't pleaded guilty yet. My producers will tell me when he does.
We expect that he's going to plead guilty specifically for the stalking charges. Are there other charges that we also expect him to plead guilty
for on the federal level?
WEINSTEIN: Not on the federal level. There are only the two stalking charges, the use of interstate commerce to commit stalking, and then the
primary stalking charge that resulted in the murder that had occurred here. But what's more important is what he's saying that he did.
If he's admitting to all of the facts that led up to this, including but not limited to him shooting and killing this individual, he's admitted to
all of that, and those are the facts upon which the state would base their conviction. So, it presents two problems, one, the issue with does that
then invoke New York State's double jeopardy law.
And second, they now have an admission on the record of what it is that he said he did.
[11:40:00]
If the judge in New York says no, different charges, however, same facts. The state will then try to use his statements in his guilty plea against
him in the federal case, which may just result him in pleading guilty there and try to work out a sentence that will exist at the same time, run
concurrent for the state and the federal charges.
ASHER: So, I have just been told what he has said in the court room, his words were, and I repeat them exactly. I shot Mr. Thompson, and he died.
Your thoughts on that? How does that perhaps change things?
WEINSTEIN: Well, he's now admitted to the murder charge that occurred in New York State. Those are essential elements. He's admitting that he was
the person that put the actions in motion. That the result of his actions, he was doing it. Now he's admitted knowingly and intelligently, and that it
caused the death of the individual that he shot.
So, he's essentially not only pled guilty in the federal case, but in the state case as well, which supports the defense's argument that they're
going to make that New York State's double jeopardy law prohibition should apply.
ASHER: He also said, and we have it on the screen now. I knew what I was doing was illegal. Why is that important for him to specify?
WEINSTEIN: There were some issues early on with regard to his mental status and what he was thinking at the time, whether he knew what he was doing and
whether he could have knowingly and intelligently committed these crimes by admitting under oath that he knew what he was doing, that defeats any
potential charge that would have been dismissed based on his mental health.
They can still use his mental health issues in terms of sentencing, but he's now admitting that he had a fully formed, conscious intent to commit
this crime. Again, essential elements of both the state and the federal charges.
ASHER: When it comes to what state prosecutors will say, you're saying that all of this really strengthens the defense argument that there shouldn't be
a state trial. What will state prosecutors argue as to why there should be an additional state trial here?
WEINSTEIN: They're going to argue that one of the clauses within the New York statute that prohibits double jeopardy states that if there are
significant differences between the elements of the crimes that were committed. If there is a significant difference in terms of what the end
result of the punishment or why the law was established in the state, but what it sets forth within it.
Those are grounds that says the double jeopardy statute doesn't apply. And so, they're going to focus on the elements of the crimes. Why the murder
charge is so significantly different? Why it's not the same as the stalking charge, despite some of the actions being the same. That's where their
focus is going to be.
ASHER: And one question I have about the state charges, this idea of second-degree murder. Why was why was it second degree murder specifically
brought against Luigi Mangione? When, of course, you know, as he's just admitted, this particular murder was intentional.
It was deliberate. Under New York law, the standard murder charge, as I understand it, is sort of second-degree murder. First degree murder is much
narrower. Can you explain that difference to us?
WEINSTEIN: Certainly. You know, premeditation goes into first degree murder. He's now telling everyone that he knew what he was doing. He didn't
establish all the essential elements of pre meditation, but that's the biggest difference between the two charges, as well as the minimum penalty
that he would be subjected to.
At the time that they filed the charges in New York State, though, there were some issues related to what the evidence would be that would be
allowed to come in. How the state prosecutors would be able to establish premeditation, and again, what the mental health issue was at the time.
They were heavily litigating that issue, and so as a result of a variety of factors, they went with the lesser charge of the second-degree murder. At
this point in time, you know, could they change the charge? Could they up it to first degree murder? They're sort of stuck with where they are now,
especially with the trial date coming up on the 8th of September.
ASHER: And we are just being told that Luigi Mangione has now officially pleaded guilty in this federal case, just in terms of those stalking
charges, and he will be sentenced on December 18th. I mean, obviously, it's very difficult to sort of use conjecture here in terms of what the
sentencing could look like.
But based on your experience, what are your thoughts on that aspect of it?
WEINSTEIN: Well, you know, he's entered this plea. It appears he pled up to the court. I haven't heard any reference being made to any sort of a
negotiated plea agreement. Facts that the government agrees exist and will factor into the computation of the advisory sentencing guidelines.
[11:45:00]
So, what's going to be important leading up to that December sentencing date in federal court is going to be what are the guidelines that are going
to be calculated by probation? And what factors are they going to include? How much time do the advisory guidelines suggest is appropriate for the
crime that's been committed?
It's up to life, but there's no minimum mandatory penalty based on the charges, and so the judge is not bound to impose a specific sentence. And
so, what we will see as we approach that sentencing date are arguments made by the defense as to why his sentence should be less than life.
At the same time that they're arguing with state prosecutors about the fact that he can't be prosecuted there. So, I think we will now again see his
history, what his life was like, what led him to do this, why the defense is saying he shouldn't be given a life sentence?
ASHER: I'm being told that the hearing is now over. Obviously, as we discuss, he's pled guilty. He said that he knew what he was doing. He shot
Mr. Thompson, and he died. We know that the sentencing will be on December 18th. Just talk to us a bit more about which way it's likely to go, based
on your experience, in terms of whether or not the state trial is going to happen at all.
WEINSTEIN: I can't predict the future with great complete certainty, but to me, based on the fact he's now admitted to these crimes, he's pled guilty.
The defense is going to argue, judge. Here's our motion for dismissal based on New York's double jeopardy law. We need to litigate this before we
proceed to a trial on the 8th.
And then, depending on the outcome of that, he's admitted to having committed the crime. And so, they're in a strange position of defending him
now in state court by challenging the prosecution as to what was happened here, because the prosecution is going to get a transcript of what took
place in federal court of his statement under oath, where he waived his right against self-incrimination.
And then they'll seek to introduce that in the state court trial if one took place. So, I don't think we're going to see a trial in state court on
September 8th. We're going to see a flurry of motion practice, some hearings that are held by the judge to flush out whether or not the state
charges can proceed.
And then if the defense prevails, the question will be, will the state prosecutors be willing to take this up to the highest court in New York
State and potentially court in federal jurisdictions to determine whether or not it did fall within this category of special law in New York?
ASHER: And a moment ago, you were sort of explaining to us the guidelines, and obviously, again, we can't really predict what the sentencing is going
to look like for December 18th, but you know, for those two federal counts, this idea, you know, stalking in a way that led to a person's death.
What would be the sort of upper limit and lower limit in terms of guidelines for sentencing? And also, you talked about the various sort of
different aspects that might be introduced. For example, his mental health conditions. Can you just recap that for our audience, please?
WEINSTEIN: Sure. Let's start with the maximum, minimum penalties. The maximum penalty that is allowed for this federal conviction is a sentence
of up to life, and so that means the judge could impose a sentence of life for his guilty plea. At the lower end, it's any term of years.
And so, the judge could determine that perhaps 25 years is appropriate given his age and circumstances. Judge could determine a little bit less.
Judge could determine, oh, I'm not going to give him a life sentence, but given his age, I'm going to give him a 50- or 60-year sentence.
The judge can sentence anywhere up to life, and then as low as a judge feels is appropriate, given the facts and circumstances. Now, in terms of
what factors into that, that's where the defense is going to be bringing full weight to who this person is. What was he thinking?
What was his life like before he committed this crime? What has his life been like after he committed this crime? What are the facts that the judge
should know about Mangione that would allow the judge to impose a sentence that is less than life in prison, and that's what their job will be between
now and the December sentencing date?
ASHER: All right, David Weinstein, stay with us. We're going to take a quick break, and we'll cover the story a little bit more when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:50:00]
ASHER: Right, breaking news into CNN. Luigi Mangione has just pleaded guilty to federal charges related to the death of United Healthcare CEO
Brian Thompson. He will be desenten, sentenced rather on December 18th. And we are expecting to hear from the New York Police Commissioner any moment
now.
Obviously, we are standing by for that. I'm joined again by Former State and Federal Prosecutor David Weinstein. He's also a Partner at Jones Walker
LLP. David, thank you so much for your time, just in terms of breaking down this case for us and explaining to us the sort of differences between the
federal case that is essentially there's not going to be a trial now in the federal case, because he's just pleaded guilty to sort of several counts of
stalking, stalking in a manner that led to a person's death.
The big question is, of course, whether or not the state trial goes ahead, and that is where he is charged with second-degree murder. We heard him in
the court room. We had reporters in the court room, and he essentially said, I shot Brian Thompson, the United Health Care CEO, and he died.
And he said, I knew what I was doing was illegal. So, explain to us. Does that mean that he has now admitted to murdering Brian Thompson, or is that
something different?
WEINSTEIN: He has admitted that he in fact killed Brian Thompson. Now, those were not the charges in federal court. In federal court, it was
stalking resulting in the death. So, he's admitted to that that he stalked him and it resulted in his death. However, certainly the defense is now
going to argue that, that was the essential element of the murder charge.
He's admitted to doing that. The facts and circumstances are identical. There is no fact that's any different from that. And as a result, the New
York State statute that prohibits another prosecution based on double jeopardy would apply here. And so, that's what they're going to assert.
That's the motion that they're going to file. I suspect that it will be done very quickly, especially with the September 8th trial date heading up.
And then it'll be up to the state prosecutors to respond to that and say that may be similar or identical facts, but the crimes themselves are
different.
Murder is different than stalking that resulted in someone's murder. This is a New York State charge. These are what the elements are of those
crimes. While he's admitted to some of them, he has admitted to all of them, and it'll be up to the judge ultimately to determine, based on the
law and those facts, whether or not the defense is right.
And whoever loses is certainly going to take an appeal. So, I don't think that we're going to see a state trial anytime soon.
ASHER: It's such an important point that you mentioned this idea of what state prosecutors are going to be arguing. This idea that listens they
might be different charges, but when you consider what he has just said in court, I shot Brian Thompson, and he died.
[11:55:00]
You know how much does that overlap indeed with the second-degree murder charges that he's facing by the state?
WEINSTEIN: I don't know how many of your viewers are familiar with the new math, where you had two circles and you could see where they intersect, and
there would be some sort of a commonality between the two. These two circles are overlapping right over each other.
Everything he's just admitted to are essential elements of the crime of murder. The only thing he hasn't admitted to essentially was premeditation,
and that's not the charge. It was second degree murders. So, these two crimes intersect and overlap with each other based on the facts he's
admitted to and the facts of the case, 100 percent.
ASHER: Right, David Weinstein. Thank you so much for breaking this down for us. Very grateful to have you for the past 30 minutes. Stay with CNN. I'll
have much more "One World" after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
