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Quest Means Business

Greece and EU; China's Economy Examined; UK Packaging Laws Anger Tobacco Companies; Pickpockets Target Eiffel Tower

Aired May 22, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00] RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND REPORTER HOST OF "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" SHOW: The Dow was down for all of the session.

It's paired back some of its losses within the last hour or so, but still off a quarter of a point as trading comes to an end at the start of a long

holiday weekend.

(APPLAUSE AT NYSE)

QUEST: Oh my goodness. Now that - oh, good grief. Well you don't see that every day and certainly not on Friday - the 22nd of May. No wimpy

gavels for us tonight! On Greece, Tsipras says he's very optimistic and Merkel says very, very intensive work is needed. We'll have very much the

story.

Pack it in. Tobacco companies are suing the U.K. over plain packaging laws. And Pac-Man celebrates its 35th year while Eurovision is in its 60th

year. And we speak to champions, including the bearded lady, from both competitions. It's going to be that sort of a Friday. I'm Richard Quest

and I mean business.

Good evening. We begin tonight with Greece and optimism that a deal is close. Germany's warning the hard work's only just beginning whilst

European leaders are gathered for a summit in Latvia. There are more debt payments imminent by Greece and the focus is squarely on the country

avoiding default.

On the sidelines of the summit, the Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras met his German and French counterparts. The Chancellor Angela Merkel exited

the talks saying very intensive work remains and urged Greece to get back to negotiating table.

As for Mr. Tsipras, the discussions left him feeling hopeful.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ALEXIS TSIPRAS, GREEK PRIME MINISTER: (Inaudible) inform you that the discussions were - was - very constructive in a very good and friendly

atmosphere. So I'm optimist we can soon reach a long-term sustainable and viable solution without the mistakes of the past. And Greece will soon

come back with cohesion and growth. This is - this is the issue - to come back to growth soon. So I'm optimist, I'm very optimistic.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: 'I'm an optimist, I'm very optimistic.' Tadgh Enright joins us from London. We've heard all this before. What's different this time

'round?

TADHG ENRIGHT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not a lot I would think. One thing he was optimistic or hopeful of at this European summit in Latvia was that

he'd be able to knock some leaders' heads together and actually gain some kind of leniency from them.

The clear message, and it's been the same message from France and Germany, is don't think there's any other way out of this. The message of Greece

is that their negotiations are squarely with the IMF, the European Commission and the European Central Bank.

Now, the Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel did have a face-to-face meeting with Alexis Tsipras last night. It lasted into the small hours actually of

the morning. She too describes this as friendly and constructive but she also said there's an awful lot more work to do.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR, VIA INTERPRETER: It was a very friendly and constructive exchange. But it is also clear that there is more work to

do with the three institutions. There is still a large amount to do.

France and Germany has offered to discuss any questions that arise of Greece and the Greek prime minister and to give help when it is needed.

But the agreement must be found with the three institutions and there must be a lot of intensive work on this.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

ENRIGHT: I think the only thing they really agreed on was there is indeed more work to do. Now bear in mind earlier this week the Greeks were saying

they expected the deal to be done by the end of this week - that's obviously not happening now.

The Greeks are now saying they expect a deal to be done within ten days. And that takes us very close to that June 5th deadline when they're making

their next payments to the IMF. So it is tricky times.

QUEST: And those tricky times - when does the deadline run out? Give an overview of what the current position is.

ENRIGHT: Well June 5th is when they make their next payment to the IMF. It's a $300 million dollar payment. And bear in mind the last payment they

only barely scraped it together. It was a bigger payment but they were raiding the coffers of hospitals, other state agencies to pay it.

So, you know, we are in, you know, dangerous territory here. And the issue for Syriza and its leadership - the Greek government - is that they have to

appease their MPs back in parliament.

Some of them are even more extreme than those who are involved in the negotiations. And that is probably why Athens is clinging so closely to

what is called its red lines in these negotiations.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

[16:05:08] ENRIGHT: Greece has been on a mission impossible since it was bailed out five years ago - raising taxes, sacking civil servants and

slashing the minimum wage while trying to get the economy growing again.

Public anger is palpable. In January, Greece elected a new government which has refused to implement any more pain. So the bailout money has

stopped and four months of talks have gone nowhere.

Now Greece is outgrowing risk of default. The deadline for its next debt repayment is June the 5th. The deadlock has come down to this - four red

lines that the Greek government says it won't cross.

Athens says it won't cut pensions, extend the retirement age or change benefits for early retirees. The government has a growth plan which

involves pending money to boost the economy and it wants that to be part of the deal.

The Troika has given Greece a primary surplus target of 3 percent this year. Athens says it won't cut spending to achieve that. And rather than

another bailout and more surveillance, the government wants debt restructuring to allow it to repay its existing loans at a longer and more

sustainable way.

This are the points on which the Greek government says there's no room for compromise.

DANIELE ANTONUCCI, SENIOR EUROPEAN ECONOMIST, MORGAN STANLEY: I would describe it as an impossible treaty (ph). Salazar (ph) wants to stay in

the euro which is a good thing. They also want to stay in government.

But at the same time, they're struggling to do what it takes to remain in the currency union. So that's the trilemma that they face. These are

impossible all together so one has to give.

ENRIGHT: And while these red lines remain, the pain continues. More than one in four Greeks are out of work and having shrunk 25 percent in five

years, the economy is back in recession.

Without a compromise, then the E.U. and IMF won't release the last $8 billion-dollar installments of bailout money.

No more cash and Greece will probably default on its debts. And then it could leave the Euro -- if or when that might happen is unknown and the

consequences impossible to estimate.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

ENRIGHT: Well this weekend Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras won't be negotiating with the Troika. He will be negotiating with his own party

when he meets their central committee for a two-day meeting. And those extreme MPs will be wanting to know just where he has made compromises, how

far he's gone and the dangers is of course if he goes too far, they pull the plug on his government and then where would we be? Richard.

QUEST: We'll find out not too long in the future. Tadhg Enright, thank you.

There were fears that Hungary's prime minister would get a frosty reception at this week's summit. Viktor Orban's raised eyebrows with his recent

comments on immigration and the death penalty. So this is how the European commission president Jean Claude Juncker welcomed him.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JEAN CLAUDE JUNCKER, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: (HANDSHAKE) - Dictator.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: Yes. Oh yes well that's what you get. He's clearly been in a good mood at this summit but even so he greets Viktor Orban with the phrase

"dictator" and then he has a joke with Mr. Tsipras about his tie and his refusal to wear a tie and then realizes he was in fact wearing the same tie

as one of his fellow commissioners.

They know how to have fun at the European Commission. European stocks closed mostly low on Friday and the outlier was in London. If you look at

the numbers you can see London was up just a quarter of a point but there was some sharp losses in Frankfurt where the Dax was down nearly half a

point.

Greece drove the other markets lower despite the Tsipras comments. It was a quiet finish for the U.S. stocks, down just 53 points, bearing in mind we

were virtually unchanged yesterday. There's now a three-day weekend. The U.S. is about to celebrate Memorial Day, and indeed many European countries

will be having bank holidays over the weekend as well.

The chairman of the Fed Janet Yellen said the Reserve is likely to raise interest rates some time this year. In a speech earlier on Friday she said

that waiting too long would risk overheating the economy.

Now, HP shares have rallied. There's been worries about what's been going on in the Chinese and Hong Kong markets. We need to pull together the

earnings Emoji and make some sense of what it's all about.

Let's start with HP. It used to be known as Hewlett-Packard in the old days. HP has a situation where the shares were up some 3 percent after the

company beat expectations.

[16:10:01] The rally - the happy smile after the company announced it's selling a stake it its Chinese unit. So it'll be setting up a new joint

venture in China. You have smiles on the results and waving goodbyes to certain parts of the company.

As for China itself, we've been seeing the markets and how the market there has been performing. Open the book and you have a smiley face with hearts

all over. There's a seven-year high for the bull market which had been wavering, but now it's coming stampeding back.

Shanghai is up 8 percent, Shenzhen is up 12 percent. The bulls have definitely returned in China. The question of course - how long can it

last?

And if you're talking about China, then Hong Kong and particularly remember this company? We told you about it yesterday. Its share price fell

dramatically and for no obvious or apparent reason. Well now the market regulator is issuing warnings about volatility and the mystery continues

over exactly why the share price tumbled so sharply.

Twenty billion dollars was wiped off its value in half an hour. Putting it together though, the market is strong in China, the growth prospects are

still somewhat questionable. Joining me now is Anthony Chan. Good to see you, sir at the start of a good long weekend.

ANTHONY CHAN, CHIEF ECONOMIST, CHASE PRIVATE CLIENT: Nice to see you.

QUEST: Chief economist at Chase Private Client, a unit of JP Morgan. Well you heard the assessment there. Chinese stocks rise even as there are

minor worries concerning the growth.

CHAN: I think there should be some concerns about growth because if you've seen the Chinese economy, it's sort of been wavering. But at the same time

you have the Central Bank and you have the potential for more fiscal policy that's likely to stabilize and - or in fact - accelerate economic growth.

And that's behind the share rise.

QUEST: So I guess what people are saying is you're - I'm following from what you said - you've got the prospect of more government action or

monetary action or fiscal action, but you've had the reality of the market. Is the market ahead of the reality/

CHAN: Well when you look at real GDP growth and it's decelerating relative -

QUEST: Yes.

CHAN: -- to what we saw last year. You could argue that the market is slightly ahead of itself, but when you look at the prospects of where we're

likely to be 12 to 18 months from now, I think the market is representing reality. We saw the same thing in the United States when we went through

the global financial crisis.

The stock market was accelerating and people were saying well we don't see the fundamentals supporting it. But it was investors anticipating the

future.

QUEST: Right. And if you're right on that, then we should see the same in Europe. We are certainly to a certain extent -

CHAN: And we -

QUEST: -- as QE from the ECB continues to feed this. But it's not healthy - stock market growth - it's not necessarily predicated on better earnings.

It's a result of artificial inflation from monetary policy.

CHAN: Monetary policy does in fact give us stimulus, but remember there's a wealth effect. That's happening in Europe, Europe is in fact

outperforming the United States even after you adjust for the weaker euro. In China, we know the growth numbers are much bigger. In Europe we're

talking about maybe as the economy grows 1.3, 1.4 percent -

QUEST: So, but -

CHAN: -- we're talking about 7 percent at the bare minimum for China. These are bigger numbers.

QUEST: Right, so but staying with you just for one second, when you see the market that does rally up ahead of what the reality is, should I be

worried?

CHAN: You should be worried if you don't believe the central bankers will be successful. You should be worried if you don't think fiscal policy will

be successful. If you think they will be successful, you should be less worried.

QUEST: I'm worried. (LAUGHTER). Good to see you. Have a lovely weekend.

CHAN: Thank you.

QUEST: Many thanks indeed. Now, under a new law, iconic cigarette packaging is going away in the United Kingdom. Big tobacco is trying to

use the courts to snuff out the law. It's "Quest Means Business." (RINGS BELL).

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:36] QUEST: Two of the world's biggest tobacco companies are fighting back and doing so hard against the law that aims to stamp out

smoking. British American Tobacco and Philip Morris have both filed lawsuits against the U.K. government over what the U.K. calls the

standardization or the standardized packaging law.

So instead of having these traditional packaging, the U.K. wants to introduce a law that will have blank packaging but there will have a small

health warning at the bottom.

You know the concept of the way in which it works out. This is the normal packaging that you see in the shops, and what they want to do is have this

very bland with just a brand name and maybe the variant - so which will be Marlboro Light and then some nasty pictures in the middle.

Now the inability to use their own brand on their own packaging, the companies say, it violates E.U. and English law. And in doing so, it would

deprive the company of the ability to use their trademarks. How significant is this? Well, Philip Morris filed a similar lawsuit in

Australia and Uruguay - those are currently winding their way through the courts.

The World Health Organization says smoking causes six million deaths a year, and of course that's a public policy reason why they say governments

have the right to restrict the use of this trademark. And there are at least 80,000 deaths in England alone.

All in all, Australia says the evidence suggests plain packaging works. Well smoking rates fell 50 percent between 2010 and 2013. Younger people

waited longer before giving up smoking.

Put all these together and you ask the question - what's the difference between that and that? Well both Philip Morris and the British American

Tobacco we invited them to come on the program to put forward their case. Instead they referred us to their statements.

From BAT - "Legal action is not something we wanted to have to consider, and is not something we undertake lightly. But the U.K. government has

left us with no other choice. And Philip Morris said, "We respect the government's authority to regulate in the public interest, but wiping out

trademarks simply goes too far."

The question for our guest Enrico Bonadio who teaches intellectual property law at City University. He joined me via Skype from Tokyo. How

significant is it to be able to have your own packaging on the brands - is it a significant part of your intellectual property?

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ENRICO BONADIO, SENIOR LECTURER, CITY UNIVERSITY LONDON: I think that they don't have a strong case. On the face (ph) of it, tobacco companies

they say, 'Look, we have spent lots of money in registering trademarks worldwide in the U.K. We have spent lots of money in the making such

brands recognizable/famous for consumers, so why are now governments telling me that I cannot use them?'

Well, they also may say by doing that, the government prevents consumers from distinguishing their packs. Well, these arguments in my opinion are a

bit weak. First of all, this measure - genetic packaging - of course it removes the most important part -

QUEST: Right.

BONADIO: -- of the brands from the packs. But tobacco measures - my competitor (ph) is still able to distinguish their products because the

name - it will be still there.

QUEST: Right.

BONADIO: And even if it will be standardized and all and identical for any brand.

QUEST: Right, but let be put the other point of view. Really the tobacco companies are entitled to say, 'Look, this is a legal product, we are legal

companies, we have a legal trademark. Now you may restrict the way in which they're being sold - behind barriers and things - but you can't stop

me using my own name and my own trademark.'

BONADIO: Yes and I understand this position. But on the other end, government say they also have the right to protect consumers' health. And

they - in my opinion - they also have the right to curb the promotional aspect of a brand.

[16:20:04] And we know that the packaging - tobacco packagings - are a tool for promoting the products. And here we talk about a product whose

consumption kills people --

QUEST: Right.

BONADIO: -- (inaudible) tumors. So governments have the right to curb the promotional aspects of brand, and in my opinion they also have the rights

to remove the promotional aspects from the package.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: The heated battle over tobacco which will certainly give the lawyers a great deal of work.

A lot of dark looks in the city of light at a top tourist attraction. The sign said 'closed.' The head of the Paris Tourist Board tells me what's

being done to help one of the world's most visited cities to be safe from pickpockets.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: This evening in Paris the Eiffel Tower's open. The landmark was shut for around six hours when the staff walked out over a surge in

aggressive pickpockets around the Eiffel Tower.

The strikers say they want a police presence on the viewing decks because they feel threatened. Two years ago the Louvre endured a similar

situation. The head of the Paris tourist board says extra police are going to be deployed around the Eiffel Tower and I asked him why these

pickpockets have been so difficult to deal with.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

FRANCOIS NAVARRO, MANAGING DIRECTOR, PARIS REGION TOURIST BOARD: As you may know, Paris is the first tourist destination of the world with more

than 46 million visitors a year, so yes pickpockets are an issue for all tourism professionals in Paris.

But we have to fight against this - the issue so we have decided to put 26 policemen around museums, monuments, department store and Eiffel Tower of

course in Paris. So, yes, we have to react and we have decided to react to fight against that.

QUEST: Were you surprised when the workers decided to close the Eiffel Tower over these pickpockets?

NAVARRO: In fact, what did they say - they are fed up with the pickpockets or tourism professionals are fed up with pickpockets. But things are going

better. Paris as you may know if a safe city. Paris is a very safe city. Between 2013 and 2014 there was ten-person decrease of security problems in

Paris. So we are in the good way but the road is not over yet for the moment.

QUEST: It's not just pickpockets. I mean, one of the things of course Paris has had to deal with is the follow-on from the Charlie Hebdo attacks

and the massacre there. I know from history that tourism always bounces back. The tourists always return. Tourism is extremely resilient. Has

that been your experience in Paris?

NAVARRO: You're totally right. Yes, after Charlie Hebdo, even since January in Paris, we were shocked in Paris but the answer was very, very

moving for us. We have received thousands of messages from all over the world, especially from U.S. because we have something in common - it's

freedom.

[16:25:07] And the U.S. and France sometimes don't agree about issues, but about freedom, about liberty - we have this in common. So, yes, you're

totally right. Tourists are back in Paris. Paris is open for business now and we have a good season and for example for U.S. visitors is the moment

to come to Paris because of the decrease of the euro. It's good for you to come to Paris now.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: That's the head of the Paris regional tourism authority. When we come back, clean up continues around the clock in this week's oil spill on

the California coast. Investigators still don't know the cause of the underground leak.

We're going to be in Santa Barbara in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's more "Quest Means Business" in a moment. When the reigning Eurovision song champion Conchita Wurst tells me

how music now pays her rent.

And I'll ask one of the greatest Pac-Man players in history about the game. We'll join him (ph) here. Before all of that, this is CNN and on this

network the news always comes first.

ISIS is claiming responsibility for an attack on a Shiite mosque in Saudi Arabia. The country's press agent says a suicide bomber detonated

explosives during Friday prayers. Reuters reports art least 21 people are dead.

Meanwhile ISIS is pushing further east in Iraq. The group has taken over a new town near Ramadi on Friday. Hundreds of people are trying to get out

of harm's way as you can see very much in this CNN video.

A bridge out of Anbar Province was unexplainably closed meaning these people were left trapped.

The polls are about to close in Ireland where there's a referendum on whether to legalize same-sex marriage. If it passes, it would make Ireland

the first country in the world to adopt same-sex marriage through a popular vote. The results are expected on Saturday morning. The polls close in

just 30 minutes from now.

In the United States, the State Department's released its first round of e- mails from Hillary Clinton's time as U.S. secretary of state and they offer a new look at the handling of the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi.

Around 300 e-mails totaling 850 pages have now been made public.

The former Korean air executive who was jailed over an argument about macadamia nuts - so-called "nut rage" - has been released from prison.

CNN's Kathy Novak is in Seoul.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

KATHY NOVAK, CNN FREELANCE REPORTER OUT OF SEOUL, KOREA: Well she's been in custody since December and now Heather Cho is a free woman.

[16:30:01] The daughter of Korean Air's chairman was so angry about the way her nuts were served in first class that she forced the taxiing plane back

to the gate at New York's JFK Airport so the head flight attendant could be kicked off.

The incident sparked widespread public anger and it landed Cho with a one- year prison sentence. Earlier this year a court found that Cho had, among other things, violated aviation law and changed the flight's path. Well on

appeal, the High Court disagreed. It handed Cho a ten-month sentence for assaulting the flight attendants involved then it released her with two

years' probation.

The head judge said Cho had shown genuine remorse and took into account her clean record and the fact that she has two small children. Cho said

nothing as she left court but has publicly apologized in the past. Prosecutors have one week to decide if they'll appeal. Kathy Novak, CNN

Seoul.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: Investigators are still looking into the cause of that pipeline rupture which sent 100,000 gallons of oil under and into California

beaches. By Thursday night nearly 10,000 gallons of oily water had been skimmed from the ocean surface. CNN's Stephanie Elam joins me there from

Santa Barbara.

It's - from where I'm sitting it looks picture perfect, a stunningly beautiful day on the West Coast, but I'm imagining it's anything but.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Richard, it's - the first thing is the smell. It starts to nag at your senses when you're out here for a long

time like we've been because you can smell it before you see any of the crude oil that is here.

But when you look out at the beaches, you can still see that the rocks - it almost looks like someone dropped black paint on them. But that's actually

that gooey tar of the crude oil that has washed up on the shore here.

But they have been cleaning up as best they can, taking advantage of when the tide was out earlier this morning, cleaning as much as they could and

getting those little bitty drops. But as we know, the tide has been pushing a lot of what was in the water further west out into the Pacific

Ocean.

So they're saying it'll take a long time before they are actually able to get it all. And if they will able to be - able to get it all - in the

totality of it, it's really something that's not going to happen. So you're seeing marine life that's already been coated in crude oil and

affecting the marine life here, Richard.

QUEST: And have they started giving the old answer that they always give in these situations that, you know, it's no longer a hazard to marine life.

You know how these stories go, Stephanie. Before long they're telling us that they've washed the beaches, they've skimmed the oil off the water and

everything's OK.

ELAM: They've started that. They started saying that there was no effect, but then we started to see the effect of animals that were effected. And,

you know, you can see here that there's this yellow caution tape that no one's allowed to go out onto the beach there.

What we did learn is that the Department of Transportation has issued the company that owns the pipeline, Plains Pipeline, things that they have to

do before they could get this pipeline up and operating again.

And for one thing, they had to take out that section of the pipe that ruptured. That has to be examined, figure out why it happened, fix the

pipeline, remove all the crude out - oil - out of that pipeline as well.

You're talking about ten miles - more than ten miles of pipeline that they have to clear out before they can then submit a proposal to hopefully get

that pipeline up and running again. So they want to try to stop this from happening again.

But a little bit of perspective, Richard. This is 100,000 gallons that went into the water here. If you think about the Gulf of Mexico in 2010 -

that was 200 million gallons. So just to put it into perspective, the size of this one in comparison to that really, really big disaster.

QUEST: And we are - while you're talking there, Stephanie, we are looking at some superb video from the air - some drone photographs you're familiar

with - and it really brings into very good focus the whole question. This - let's talk wider for a second.

This battle that exists on the West Coast - we talked about it yesterday. We can see in the background the oil platforms out at sea and the

inevitability that things do go wrong.

ELAM: Oh, completely. And that's the thing about it, and, Richard, I know you know California well. This is a beautiful stretch of beach where we're

standing right now and this is a holiday weekend in the United States. It's the unofficial beginning to the summer season.

So normally you would have people out here who'd be trying to take advantage of it although it's super windy. But out in the distance, you do

see those platforms - those oil drigging - drilling - platforms. And there are a lot of people who did not want to see those here at all and a lot of

people who would like to see them gone.

There was a big disaster that happened for this area in the late 60s. And when that happened, that's what led to a whole big push -

QUEST: Right.

[16:35:08] ELAM: -- to Earth Day and conservation and how can we stop all of this oil drilling. But it's still an issue that comes up all the time.

QUEST: Stephanie, good to have you with us. Thank you for making sense of it all. Stephanie Elam joining us from Santa Barbara, California.

An anniversary for the first superstar of the digital world - a cultural icon still going strong after - oh, just listen and enjoy it.

(PAC-MAN VIDEO GAME SOUNDS)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: We frequently tell you about distressing stories of hacking and this one perhaps is more distressing than most. Hackers have stolen data

from an adult dating website where users share their most intimate secrets. More than 3 and 1/2 million users of the adultfriendfinder.com have had

data stolen and that data is all sorts of things including sexual preferences. The fear now is the information could be used for extortion.

CNN Money's Jose Pagliery joins me now. Good to see you.

JOSE PAGLIERY, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

QUEST: Now you were just saying before we started this is very disturbing. This is on a different scale. Tell me what (inaudible).

PAGLIERY: It is. This is - this is deeply invasive. So hackers broke into the adult friend finder website and this is an adult sex dating

website. This is where people go to lead their secret lives. If they're married they could find someone to cheat with, they can arrange threesomes,

they can find swingers like them.

And so this is a website where people go and put their deepest, darkest sexual desires - the things they don't want to admit to anyone else - and

they can live that life. And those details have been pulled from this site. How? We don't know.

So some hacker broke in. This company isn't saying very much about how it happened because the company just found out about it. Apparently hackers

broke in in March, the company just heard about it and is now responding with law enforcement and hiring cybersecurity experts.

But the problem here is how deeply disturbing this is. This is very private information.

QUEST: Right. Now we always tend to think of those websites where, you are, our financial welfare, the banks, the insurance companies - where we

legitimately go to do - not that going to these websites is not legitimate. I'm digging myself into a trap here, but you know what I mean.

PAGLIERY: Conservative, traditional websites.

QUEST: Thank you.

PAGLIERY: Right?

QUEST: You rescued me. But so we believe there has to be a barrier around the protection of those sort - that sort - of information. But here were

they being - obviously they were being lax.

PAGLIERY: This is arguably worse - a much worse situation here, right? Because if a bank gets hacked, who cares? It's not your money, right?

It's the bank's money. And so if a bank gets hacked, don't worry, they'll refund whatever it is that I lost.

This is different. This can be used to blackmail people.

QUEST: But here's the - there's a slight difference. The moment - and this is what I would suggest - the moment you go that extra mile and

blackmail, you're in a different league. As a - as the criminal. It's one thing to hack, it's another thing to even hack and then use --

PAGLIERY: Sure.

[16:40:06] QUEST: -- hacked credit cards. But when you blackmail, you go to prison for a very long time.

PAGLIERY: That's right, but we're not talking about one hacker. These files are now online, OK? So this database of 3 and 1/2 million people -

their names, where they live, their sexual preferences, their birthdays. This is now online.

And so now what we've got are people all over the world who have these secrets that are potentially exposed here. They - that makes me think

about places like Uganda, right? Which recently passed very strict anti- gay laws, right? What happens if people get outed there, right? What happens if people get outed who are lawyers or judges, right? Or

politicians or whatever it is. The people get outed now. Spouses that were cheating on their wives or their husbands.

QUEST: OK, so here's what - let's turn this 'round - because I can see the seriousness of this from what you say. So now I suggest to you that the

companies who ran these websites do not have anything like the security and standards that we berate Walmart or Nordstrom or any of the other companies

that all got their facts stolen (ph). These companies are a paper tiger by comparison.

PAGLIERY: Sure. Well OK, let's be honest about something. All companies are getting hacked into. Their defenses are horrible. They admit - they

admit -

QUEST: If you've got - hang on a second. If you're holding people's deepest, darkest private sexual secrets -

PAGLIERY: You should be held to a higher standard.

QUEST: Arguably yes, arguably yes.

PAGLIERY: But they failed. They failed. And that's what we're seeing with banks who are losing our credit card data, right? Insurers like

Anthem have lost our social security numbers. And now this website's lost our, you know, deep secrets about our sexual preferences. This is dark

stuff.

QUEST: Thank you very much, sir. Good to have you come in.

PAGLIERY: Thanks.

QUEST: Now, 35 years ago to go to a completely different area - read of a (ph) subject - the digital world's most enduring and recognizable

personality made - I say his debut? It could have been her debut. It was Pac-Man. He's been an icon for three generations and we've all got

pictures of his grandchildren sitting in your phone right now.

We're talking of course about the Pac-Man, the Ghost hunter and the ancestor of Emoji and it's still generating huge amounts of revenue today.

For those of you of a certain age that don't know what this was all about, basically he goes 'round eating until he gets to a power pellet or he gets

rid of the ghosts. You get the idea. Now, a Bud Light commercial threw human contestants into a giant physical version of the game.

(COMMERCIAL CLIP)

QUEST: Pac-Man is believed to be the biggest grossing arcade game of all time. When Google put a version of the game on its home page to celebrate

the 35th anniversary, estimates suggest it cost the global economy more than $100 million in lost productivity.

I spoke to Pac-Man champion Billy Mitchell. Why Billy Mitchell? Well in 1999 he became the first player ever to rack up a perfect score. In other

words, he went all the way. He not only ate all the dots, he got all the pellets --the power pellets - and he didn't lose any of the three lives on

the way.

Over 3.3 million points. I asked him about his first encounter with the Pac-Man.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

BILLY MITCHELL, ACHIEVED FIRST PERFECT PAC-MAN SCORE: The first time I played I went up, I put a quarter in and I probably played almost as good

as you did the first time. I probably got about 3,000 points and it lasted under a minute.

And luckily nobody was around, nobody saw it and it's not recorded into history.

QUEST: When did you first play - from when you first played it to when you then did your record-breaking perfect score? How long was that?

MITCHELL: Well I first played it in 1980. I first got the world record - regular world record in 1983. But then I just sort of sat on it. I did

all the research - I knew what a perfect game would take. I was the only one who knew - I just shared it with Walter Day, and it wasn't until 1999

when somebody else came into the picture who was also that good who could also have taken that which I never achieved - the perfect score - and at

that point I just said I didn't sit on it all these years to let someone else take it. And that was July 3, 1999.

QUEST: Describe for those who don't know what is a perfect score? Is see the number - 3,338,360 - but to get that perfect score, what is it you have

to do?

[16:45:03] MITCHELL: Well, you go from the start, you get every dot, every power pellet, every prize, every blue guy. You have to go 255 screens.

You have to make it to 256 and you can never die one time. So, my rival - my Canadian friend - he did what I did, but he died one time, therefore he

lost 90 points. Therefore he's lost in history. Nobody even knows his name. I'm not even going to tell you his name.

QUEST: In terms of the game itself, as you are a man who specialized in video games, what is it about Pac-Man that just keeps you coming back?

MITCHELL: Well, again, it was early on. It was a video game that wasn't based on shooting or kicking or punching or blood or anything like that.

It was a softhearted game, it was fun, it was cute, it was a story and, again, it was something that people - you could get women to play, you

could get kids to play. It wasn't just a young male hardcore testosterone game. It was fun.

And the fact of the matter was at the time it came out, computers were relatively new to everybody. So everybody was being introduced to

computers through a game like Pac-Man. It made computers less intimidating, it created fun. It actually was a gateway that opened up

other worlds for many people. I say that because that's what happened with me.

One of the best benefits of it as a game today, guys like me - I would rather pay Pac-Man because it's a game that I can still beat my kid at. If

I play any of the other games, he whips me. I'm not going to have that.

QUEST: Thank you very much indeed for joining us and a big thank you to Mr. Pac-Man or Ms. Pac-Man or Pac-Man next to you.

MITCHELL: Good day. Thank you.

QUEST: Thank you.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: I can honestly say in 30 years of doing this job, I've never done an interview with somebody who had a Pac-Man behind them dancing. And come

to think of it, I don't think I've ever done a program where we've gone from a live Pac-Man to a bearded lady.

But the bearded lady won the Eurovision song contest. It's one of those days. (RINGS BELL).

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: OK, some of you will hate it, others will absolutely adore it and quite a few of you won't have any idea what we are talking about for the

next few minutes.

It is the 60th anniversary of the Eurovision song contest. Yes - Eurovision. (RINGS BELL). This year 56 countries are competing in front

of an estimated audience of 180 million people. With the finale just a day away, Isa Soares explains how Eurovision 2015 is about tolerance.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: To rapturous applause Conchita Wurst rises like a phoenix once more. Returning to the stage in dramatic

style for the semi-final of this year's Eurovision song contest.

On and off the stage, this bearded drag queen has delivered a message of tolerance - of equal rights for all. In honor of there, Vienna's also

showing its true colors - looking to put a stop to homophobia with traffic lights that feature same-sex couples.

[16:50:18] If this isn't enough to stop you in your tracks, then the music may just do the trick. This year's message is all about building bridges.

Russia, many argue, may have the most to rebuild given criticism against the country on gay rights and the crisis in Ukraine. And the lyrics may

raise some eyebrows.

Female (SINGING): Different yet we're the same. We believe, we believe in a dream.

SOARES: Despite this, this song, "A Million Voices" is a hot favorite. New to the party and non-European - Australia. They'd been invited to this

European extravaganza as a one- off and in celebration of the competition's 60th anniversary.

Male (SINGING): This is one tough act to follow.

SOARES: That may be so but it won't be a waltz in the park either. Italy is sharing Europe with "Amore" - a powerful love ballad by pop-opera trio

Il Volo.

While some sing of "Grand Amore," Greece sings a sorrow.

Female (SINGING): I have one last breath -

SOARES: Their song "One Last Breath" may be interpreted as being of economic despair. And hoping to spoil everyone's party, the underdog -

Serbia's Bojana Stamenov, a favorite among LGBT followers. And if Conchita has anything to go by, the "Beauty" may just take home the prize. Isa

Soares, CNN London.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: And that's classic Eurovision - boom, bang-a bang, boom bang-a bang, boom, bang-a bang, boom bang-a bang boom!

Now, like Abba and Celine Dion, Conchita's career has gone stratospheric since winner Eurovision. She has performed at the European Parliament and

at the United Nations, modeled for Jean Paul Gaultier as you can see there - well such an extraordinary confection - and she's also making a run at

commercial success. Her debut album was released last week.

So Conchita joined me from Vienna, getting ready for tomorrow night - or this weekend's - competition and I asked what winning Eurovision meant to

her.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

CONCHITA WURST, 2014 EUROVISION SONG CONTEST WINNER: Winning the Eurovision made basically all my dreams come true. I'm a Eurovision fan as

long as I remember and I always wanted to sing and I always wanted to, you know, achieve something in the music industry.

And after winning, my whole life changed in every way you can imagine. And actually I'm now able to live my dream, and that's a huge honor.

QUEST: What is that dream?

WURST: My dream is of living my visions, being able to -- at the end of the day being able to pay my rent and my bills with the thing that I love

the most and this would be entertaining people. And, yes that was the biggest dream I've ever had since I'm very little.

QUEST: Eurovision - and, you know, I have been watching Eurovision since I was knee-high to a grasshopper as they say. Eurovision is that moment in

Europe, that contest that we love and that we hate, that we look forward to and that we deride. That we watch and we laugh with. Why is Eurovision so

successful do you think?

WURST: Well I think that Eurovision is so successful it's a beautiful way of entertaining people. It's such a beautiful concept that - like the

whole Europe is coming together through the love of music. And, you know, there's no prejudgment going on.

Everybody is allowed to come as they are, there's no one telling an artist, 'Oh, you're not allowed to do this or that.' If they're authentic and if

they're doing what they love, then they are very welcome.

And I think that's basically this feeling that attracts people to this contest. And it's over the top. And - you know - the costumes and the

light and stuff. So it's also good to gossip about I guess.

QUEST: Now do you think that's the secret of a good Eurovision song - big hair, big music, big costumes, the bigger the better, the nosier, the

brassier, the best?

[16:55:12] WURST: No, not really. I think you really have to find your authentic concept of your stage performance because I kept it quite simple.

I mean, I know I'm the lady with the beard, but I was standing there on my own and I had beautiful light and that was basically it.

And of course there are acts that are - you know - really outrageous and they have like almost like gigantic stuff on the stage. So they really put

a huge effort on creating Wonderland on this little stage. So, I don't think there is a specific recipe, it's just really try to enjoy your time

on stage.

QUEST: This ability for a bearded lady to win Eurovision when President Putin doesn't like it, the Russian Orthodox Church doesn't like it -

there's a lot of people who loved it. I wonder, Conchita, what does it tell us about music and what we like?

WURST: What does it tell us? Well, in first place, I'm quite honored that these really influential people are talking about me. So obviously I'm

necessary enough to think about what I have to say and - but I don't want to disappoint them because I'm just a drag queen. So they don't have to be

scared.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: 'I'm just a drag queen.' "Profitable Moment" after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: It's not every day -- for tonight's "Profitable Moment" that we have a live Pac-Man, a bearded lady and an oil spill in California all in

the same program. I leave you with this thought - the quick question - which country has won Eurovision most times? And that's "Quest Means

Business." I'm Richard. Quest. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, (RINGS BELL) I hope it's profitable.

[17:00:06] I'll see you next week.

END