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Quest Means Business
Greece Needs Deal to Continue Payments; European Stocks Fall on Warning from Greece; Cameron Begins Week of Meetings With EU Leaders; Deal Reached in Nigeria Fuel Strike; Oil Giant Nigeria Paralyzed by Fuel Shortage; Cunard Marks 175th Anniversary
Aired May 25, 2015 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:20] RICHARD QUEST, HOST: No trading in New York or in the United States, it's the Memorial Day holiday weekend, and it's still
Monday, it's the 25th of May.
Tonight, Greece's finance minister tells me, we can pay the IMF, but only if there is a deal.
Nigeria's outgoing finance minister will give her view on the country's fuel crisis.
And Varoufakis and a college from Princeton pay tribute to the game theorist John Nash, who died over the weekend.
I'm Richard Quest, tonight, live from Los Angeles, where I mean business.
Good evening from Los Angeles. Tonight we hear from the Greek finance minister, who says that Greece can pay the IMF only if there is a deal.
Greece owes the International Monetary Fund more than $1.7 billion in loan repayments over the month of June.
And the country's interior minister warned that Greece wouldn't have the money and, as had been said before, would prioritize paying civil
servants and pensioners instead. In the quote of the minister, "This money will not be given, it is not there to be given," said the interior
minister.
A short while ago, I spoke to Yanis Varoufakis, who joined me from Athens, and I put that quote fairly and squarely to the minister and asked
him if he agrees.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YANIS VAROUFAKIS, GREEK FINANCE MINISTER: I'm chronically optimistic, so my answer to the question will be colored by the optimism, and I shall
say that we will make the payment, because I have no doubt that we will have an agreement by then with the institutions, our partners in Europe,
the IMF, and so on and so forth.
QUEST: But the payment of this money to the IMF in June is dependent, if I understand you correctly, on an agreement being reached.
VAROUFAKIS: An agreement has to be reached. This state cannot continue to make repayments to creditors as part of a loan agreement which
was meant to be based on both our making the payments and them making the disbursements.
QUEST: Is it fair to say that Greece is just about out of money?
VAROUFAKIS: No, it isn't. Our state -- our state, out of huge sacrifices by the Greek people, has managed to live within its means.
QUEST: I suppose I am inviting you to comment on one of your cabinet colleagues, but is it helpful when the interior minister does make those
sort of comments, basically saying to the rest of the world, do a deal or there's no repayment. It's ratcheting up the pressure.
VAROUFAKIS: Not in the slightest. As I said, it is common knowledge. Everybody knows amongst our partners and friends and the institutions that
the Greek state cannot carry on making large payments to he IMF without an agreement.
Mr. Voutsis, my colleague from the cabinet, the interior minister, simply repeated something I've said on a number of occasions, and what I've
said is just common sense. We have for four months been meeting our obligations to our creditors by extracting the last ounce of liquidity from
our battered economy's fiber.
We can't carry on doing this forever, and our creditors know that. So, it's about time they come to the table and meet us, not half the way,
but one quarter of the way. We've already met them three quarters of the way. It's about time the institutions, in particular the IMF, get their
act together and come to an agreement with us.
QUEST: Let's talk about that meeting on the way. I read a recent article that you've just written, and I hesitate to use the words "red
lines," because it seems these days everybody has red lines all over the place.
But in this particular case, it would appear your red, red line, if you like, is the pensions question. And if you cannot -- if it becomes a
choice or your dragooned into cutting pensions, you won't do it. Is that the sticking point, pensions?
[16:05:03] VAROUFAKIS: It is a sticking point, it's not the sticking point. The sticking point is, as I said in an article that I wrote only
this morning, which you may be referring to, the sticking point is austerity.
Greece has had the greatest dose of austerity of any economy after the second World War. We are the champions of fiscal consolidation and
austerity, and the result is a collapsed economy. We can't have more of that, Richard. We need growth now.
QUEST: The reality is, sir, the reality is you are now at a position where it appears the eurogroup are determined to stare you down, and you
are in a position which is very difficult. And it's -- and having covered this from the beginning, I can't see how you get out of it without more
pain.
VAROUFAKIS: Well, this country has experienced a great deal of pain, and if it is simply a matter of investing into a little bit more pain in
order to get the gain, I will be happy to do it. The difference of opinion, it's not with my eurozone member state colleagues, it's primarily
with one or two of the institutions, actually one.
The point I want to make, Richard, and I think every well-meaning member of our audience would agree, is whatever extra pain there is should
be an investment into a turnaround.
QUEST: You have opened a hornet's nest, minister, with your revelation that you record, your words, your interventions so that you can
better recount them to your prime minister. Can you accept that others who will have attended those meetings will find that improper?
VAROUFAKIS: I don't think they do find it improper. There's nothing improper about one minister recording his own speeches so as to be able to
recount them. I haven't recorded anybody else's speeches, only mine.
And what I think this revelation has probably done is firstly to throw light on the rather improper way that that the international press has been
reporting that eurogroup meeting. And secondly, to reveal the fact that we don't have minutes. We should have minutes, shouldn't we, Richard?
QUEST: Right.
VAROUFAKIS: Transparency should be part of any democratic process.
QUEST: In your article that you referred to earlier, you said that the motivation of those is in question and is best left to future
historians. Do you believe there are people, institutions that want Greece out of the eurozone? Because I question -- my fundamental question is,
what are you suggesting is their motivation?
VAROUFAKIS: Well, actually, what I was referring to was the lack of transparency in various fora, like, for instance, the eurogroup. And also
the motivation of those who leaked lies and innuendoes, and of the international press of renowned news media that reported upon them as if
they were facts.
So, this is the motivation that I was referring to, and I think that - - I know that from having watched your program on a number of occasions over many years, that you would also be worried about this kind of mass
reproduction of lies and innuendoes, wouldn't you?
QUEST: Right, but -- well, but do you -- well, we try to avoid lies and those sort of things on the program, as perhaps you might expect. But
do you believe there are people who wish either Greece or will or wish Greece out?
VAROUFAKIS: Maybe. I have no way of knowing. What I do know is that it is in the interest of no one if Greece is forced out of the eurozone.
It is in the interest of no one in Europe, indeed, it is exactly the opposite true, that it is in the interest of the average European that this
Greek crisis ends.
And the only way it can end is with Greek growth and development so that Greece can repay its debts and Europe can show that it can deal with a
crisis in a rational manner and not in a disciplinarian fashion that applies a kind of Biblical economics that really doesn't work.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: That's the Greek finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, talking to me earlier. And you can hear more of Mr. Varoufakis later in the
program as he gives his thoughts and remembers the life of John Nash, an economist who had a great influence on Mr. Varoufakis, and of course who
was the founder, if you like, the creator of the so-called Game Theory. You'll hear his views on that later in tonight's program.
[16:10:01] The stock markets were closed in the UK and Germany, as indeed they have been in the United States. And those markets that were
opened were down for very heavy losses in Greece and Spain. The Athens general was down more than 3 percent for obvious reasons following the
interior minister's comments that the government won't make debt payments.
The IBEX fell two and a third percent, and that was all about local election upsets with the anti-austerity parties. It's a spillover, if you
like, from the Greek issues. The voters are punishing the governing party for the spending cuts.
Staying with matters in Europe, the British prime minister, David Cameron, has begun his effort, in his words, to negotiate what he's calling
a better deal for Britain within the European Union. Mr. Cameron is meeting the European Commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, at
Cameron's weekend home at Chequers.
Our senior international correspondent, Nima Elbagir, is in London. Now, they will be doing an extremely good job, Nima, of papering over
differences, certainly bearing in mind Cameron never wanted Juncker in the job. But the fact is, he -- everyone accepts Cameron has a mandate, and
now the EU has to negotiate.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. You can't accuse David Cameron of being lacking in ambition. To start his
proposed charm offensive towards EU reform, towards what the UK is calling EU reform, I should say, with Jean-Claude Juncker, it's pretty bold.
But taking him down the Chequers, to that grand estate, it's a good start. Downing Street are saying they're not getting into any specifics in
this working dinner, but they will be setting the scene. They're outlining what it is Britain wants from the European Union.
And what they want goes to the heart of the founding tenant of the European Union, which is freedom of movement. They want to control the
movement of EU migrants into the UK, and they also want to be allowed to set limits on when EU migrants can claim benefits.
These -- this is not something that's particularly popular with the leaders in Europe, as you know. Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has
said that this is an unacceptable picking apart of that central tenant, but she is next on that charm offensive list. Well, no, sorry, Hollande is
next, and then from there, he's hopping over to Berlin to see if he can try and change her mind.
QUEST: And of course, it is ultimately in Berlin that an agreement will have to be reached. Nima, thank you very much. We'll be watching
that. And that's a story that's going to be with us for some months, if not years, to come.
A crippling fuel shortage in Africa's largest economy is now nearing its end. Nigeria's finance minister has accused the fuel companies of
holding the country hostage. You're going to hear from her and how she helped end the crisis. It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Good evening to you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Welcome back, it's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Richard Quest, tonight in Los Angeles. Nigeria's crippling fuel crisis may be about to
end. Africa's largest economy has been running on empty as businesses, banks, even the cell phone networks has shut down as their generators ran
dry. Airlines canceled flights, motorists lined up to get petrol where they can.
[16:15:00] Oil suppliers -- the suppliers say the government owes them a billion dollars in unpaid fuel bills. Nigeria's government is
accusing the oil companies of using the crisis to push through a payment without verification.
Now, the suppliers have agreed to restart deliveries after a meeting with the government officials. Nigeria's finance minister, Ngozi Okonjo-
Iweala, was at that meeting. The minister has four days left in office before she hands over to her successor. The minister is with me now. What
did you pay or promise to get the fuel flowing again, Minister?
NGOZI OKONJO-IWEALA, NIGERIAN OUTGOING FINANCE MINISTER (via telephone): Richard, we didn't say anything. They senate committee on
petroleum upstream and downstream held a hearing in which several things came out. First, diesel is not subsidized. It was deregulated several
years ago.
So there was absolutely no reason why there should have been a shortage of diesel in the country. And it could only be because there was
an attempt to sabotage the economy and make it look bad in the last days of the administration.
And that came out very clearly, that the issue was not money, but some logistical problems with moving the diesel. Diesel is not subsidized, has
not been for several years.
QUEST: All right.
OKONJO-IWEALA: So that's the first point.
QUEST: But Minister --
OKONJO-IWEALA: The other --
QUEST: Minister, hang on.
OKONJO-IWEALA: Yes?
QUEST: Minister, let me jump in. Why should they want to make the government look bad when the government is out in four days, having lost
the election?
OKONJO-IWEALA: Well, I think that's a question to pose to certain elements. Because there's no other explanation for that. Diesel is not
subsidized, so why should diesel have been a problem? And that was what came out, the question that everybody asked at the hearing. And when it
became very clear that there was no very strong reason for that, you'll have to ask the tough questions about why this is happening.
The second thing is that on the portion which is for PNX, for petrol, for gas, on which they're owed some money, and large amounts of it, almost
a billion dollars, is for foreign exchange differential. Which we've said must be verified, because Nigerians are very skeptical of anything that's
made of subsidizes, as you know. And we said that must be verified before they are paid.
Now, in terms of the marketers, there was also a trade that the incoming government will not honor any outstanding obligations.
QUEST: All right.
OKONJO-IWEALA: Because we just paid them quite a large amount. We paid them $2.5 billion this December --
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: All right, but --
OKONJO-IWEALA: -- of last year. So, it wasn't a question of not being paid. They were just afraid that maybe the new government may not
continue the payments. They received some reassurances from the senators on the side of the incoming government --
QUEST: All right, let me --
OKONJO-IWEALA: -- that this would be honored --
QUEST: Let me --
OKONJO-IWEALA: -- provided the --
QUEST: Let me jump in --
OKONJO-IWEALA: -- the amounts are properly verified.
QUEST: So, let me jump in here and just finally ask you, can you tell us tonight that the fuel is now starting to flow, and that things should be
getting as relatively normal as possible quite quickly?
OKONJO-IWEALA: The (inaudible) promise, a promise that within six hours they would start -- reopen operations. So I expect that by tomorrow,
things should start getting back to normal, and particularly for a product like diesel that is not subsidized, has nothing to do with government
payment whatsoever. I want to make that clear, that this -- much of this had nothing to do with government payment.
QUEST: All right. You've -- thank you very much for joining us. I think we got -- we've certainly got the point. The minister, four days
left in office, just proves right up until the last moment. Minister, thank you, as always, for joining us.
But whilst that fuel shortage existed -- and, indeed, until the fuel manages to get flowing again -- it is affecting daily life across Nigeria.
And one casualty, the elevator to the CNN bureau in Lagos. Christian Purefoy has climbed 12 flights of stairs -- looking fit -- and he now joins
us with the latest, not out of breath.
Christian, so, you heard the minister saying -- and as I understand the minister, what she's basically claiming, this is politics, it's got
nothing to do with, if you like, the real economy and the issue of diesel.
CHRISTIAN PUREFOY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Richard, there's an enormous amount of politics involved in this, but there's also an
enormous amount of corruption involved in this problem. It's an extremely complicated, messy thing that is Nigeria's fuel subsidy.
And on one side, yes, you have the finance minister and, at the moment, the ruling government saying that they are paying -- that they're
paying the subsidy so Nigerians can have cheap fuel, but that the fuel importers are fiddling the books. There are ghost ships coming in full of
petrol, that they want to audit them, that's what's been going on.
[16:20:09] But the incoming government, the Buhari administration, which will be coming in about four days' time, are saying that actually
what has happened is Ngozi and the PDP government have basically ruled over one of the most corrupt sums in the world, and we're seeing all sorts of
figures bandied about. One report was $6 billion a few years ago.
The central bank governor seemed to indicate that part of a 50 -- a 20 million -- $20 billion missing from the Nigerian Petroleum Corporation was
also part of that. So yes, it's extremely complicated, extremely messy. It's not simple. But at the heart of it, yes, it's politics and corruption
in Nigeria, and people are suffering.
QUEST: Right.
And this is -- when we went down to the streets of Lagos, Richard -- sorry -- this is what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without fuel, you cannot do anything. My -- I couldn't pump water in the mall, I couldn't (inaudible). In fact, to get
transport from my house to work is a hell. It's just a shame to this country, honestly, very shameful. Very shameful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel so bad and so sad. A Nigerian citizen can never get good service from government. That's very bad.
PUREFOY: And that you have so much oil --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have enough oil. There's oil everywhere, but to the sell the fuel, it's a problem. So, we need a good government. A
just government as well, please.
PUREFOY: I'll hang here just in case, gentlemen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The views of the streets, Christian Purefoy, where the lights are still going on. Christian, we thank you for that.
Kingsley Moghalu is the former deputy governor of the Nigerian Central Bank. He's a professor at Tufts University's Fletcher School of
International Affairs, and he joins me now from Washington.
So, I think you heard Christian Purefoy, and I'm sure you heard the minister, the outgoing minister. But what a mess! It's hardly, as my
grandmother used to say, it's no way to run a railroad. Four days before the government leaves, and you have this fuel dispute at a time when the
economy is already in parlor states. What's gone wrong?
KINGSLEY MOGHALU, FORMER DEPUTY GOVERNOR, CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA: Well, what's gone wrong is something that has been wrong for a very long
time, and I think it's important that we should make that clear.
The oil subsidy regime in Nigeria has gone on for God knows how long, for decades, and no government has been able to summon the political will
to end it. Now, to be fair, the Jonathan government tried to do that, but the government was resisted from 2012.
QUEST: OK, but -- but when the minister says, as you heard her say, diesel has been zero subsidized, diesel is not subsidized, it's only other
petroleum products, she's effectively saying that the oil companies and the distributors were holding the government to ransom to make the payment. Is
she right?
MOGHALU: Well, I think it's quite clear that the whole question of the oil subsidies scheme is enmeshed in very deep corruption. There are a
lot of bogus claims and no one is exactly clear the basis on which these claims are made.
And it's not always also very clear who's perpetrating these scams, whether it's the oil companies, whether it's the distributors, or indeed
whether it's some people inside the government bureaucracy.
But what is very clear is that the oil subsidy has to end. And this is going to be one of the toughest and immediate challenges that General
Mumammadu Buhari will face when he takes office on the 29th of May.
It's clear this crisis has brought out quite clearly that the oil subsidy regime is not working. And it's in everybody's best interest that
it should end. Fuel in Nigeria is -- it costs the market rate in many parts of the country, and the subsidy does not get to a lot of Nigerians in
reality.
QUEST: So -- let's just push forward, now, finally, and relatively briefly, when the new government takes over, there are a variety of
economic issues that have to be dealt with. What for you, sir, is the number one issue that they must deal with, if you like, in the honeymoon of
the first hundred days?
MOGHALU: The number one issue the new government will have to deal with is simply running the machinery of government. Because as we -- the
country is faced with a very severe fiscal crisis. There's clear fiscal distress. Many states under federal government have had problems from
reports paying salaries, over 18 states.
[16:24:59] That's about two thirds or half, at least half, of the states in Nigeria cannot pay salaries to their workers. The federal
government's resources are quite strained because of the fall in oil prices by more than 50 percent over the last six months.
QUEST: Right.
MOGHALU: And therefore -- and we've had an economy, or a political economy in Nigeria that's run not for capital projects, but run to sustain
a large bureaucracy of government. And this is absolutely outrageous.
So, the first challenge that will face Buhari is surviving and maintaining the government to run. And this is going to call for some very
tough decisions.
QUEST: Right. And as those tough decisions are taken, you, sir, will be with us -- frequently, I hope -- to help us understand what's happening.
We're grateful that you -- for your guidance today. Thank you, sir. Now - -
MOGHALU: Well, thank you.
QUEST: -- as QUEST MEANS BUSINESS continues, it's a birthday celebration with three queens as the honored guests. Cunard Line is
marking 175 years, and it does so with a trip back in time. Magnificent pictures, wonderful ships, and the CEO next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SHIP'S HORN SOUNDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Magnificent. Just look at it. This was the scene in Liverpool today -- funny, it's where I was born -- as the so-called Three
Queens from the Cunard Line sail together for --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SHIP'S HORN SOUNDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Oh, that cleared the tubes. That -- sailed together for the first time in the company's spiritual home city. It was 175 years ago that
Cunard's first ship, it was the Britannia, departed for the New World.
Now, since that first voyage, Cunard liners have carried people from all walks of life, from immigrants to celebrities. Cunard's floating
palaces have hosted everybody from Mark Twain and Charles Dickens, Elizabeth Taylor, Clark Gable, Bing Crosby -- you name them, they were all
onboard.
And the ships were also called into service for grimmer tasks. The Carpathia, it rescued more than 800 survivors from the Titanic in 1912.
During the Crimean War and again during the World War II and during the Falklands War, soldiers filled the stately halls. Winston Churchill
credits Cunard ships' role as a troop carrier with helping to end World War II.
To the present, and Cunard's chief executive Dave Dingle joins me now on the line from London. Mr. Dingle, first of all, congratulations on what
is a very impressive set of ships.
One thing I always remember, having been -- and I will declare my conflict of interest, I have actually -- and I paid, by the way, I paid --
but I sailed across on one of your ships. It's not a -- when you cross the Atlantic, it's not a cruise, is it? It's a crossing.
DAVID DINGLE, CEO, CUNARD LINE (via telephone): Well, that's right, Richard. We're always very keen to distinguish the two, because when you
sail across the transatlantic on Queen Mary II, you are sailing on an ocean liner, you're sailing on a ship which has been designed technically to cope
with an ocean crossing very comfortably.
And also which is equipped inside with plenty of things to do and keep you well amused, occupied, and entertained for a full six days at sea.
QUEST: Right.
[16:30:00] DINGLE: So, it is different, and it's very special.
QUEST: Mr. Dingle, your part of a much larger company, now, obviously, part of Carnival.
DINGLE: Yes.
QUEST: And you're part of a -- and when Carnival took over Cunard, the fear was it would become part of the enmeshed larger group. How
difficult has it been in that sense, to maintain its identity at a time when you've got Royal Caribbean, you've got Holland, you've got Norwegian,
and everybody is crowing and crying out for those more lucrative passengers.
DINGLE: Well, first of all, the Carnival organization is a house of great cruise brands, and we have proved ourselves to be very good at making
sure that each one is separate, is distinguished, maintains its own character.
And because of that, the -- we have preserved the absolute uniqueness of Cunard, which, remember, is the single remaining bloodline with the
glorious, glamorous days of ocean travel in the 1930s and 1940s.
Nobody else can claim that, and we make absolutely sure through the marketing of the brand, the presentation of it, that it remains
unchallenged in that respect. And so, that is how we keep it as strong and as successful as it is to this day.
QUEST: And seeing those three -- thank you, sir. David Dingle joining us from Cunard. Seeing those three ships with the red arrows in my
hometown. I'll be back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:30:00] DAVID DINGLE, CEO, CUNARD LINE: It is different and it's very special.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND REPORTER HOST OF "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" SHOW: -- ister Dingle, you're part of a much larger
company now obviously - a part of Carnival. And you're part of that.
And when Carnival took over Cunard, the fear was it would become a part of the enmeshed larger group. How difficult has it been in that sense
to maintain its identity at a time when you've got Royal Caribbean, you've got Holland, you've got Norwegian and everybody is crowing and crying out
for those lucrative passengers.
DINGLE: Well first of all, the Carnival organization is a house of great cruise brands. And we have proved ourselves to be very good at
making sure that each one is separate, is distinguished, maintains its own character. And because of that, the - we - have preserved the absolute
uniqueness Cunard which remember is the single remaining bloodline with the glorious, glamorous of ocean travel in the 1930s and 1940s.
Nobody else can claim that and we make absolutely sure through the marketing of the brand, the presentation of it, that it remains
unchallenged in that respect. And so that is how we keep it as strong and as successful as it is to this day.
QUEST: And steering those three. Thank you, sir. David Dingle joining us from Cunard. Seeing those three ships with the red arrows in my
home town. I'll be back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Hello I'm Richard Quest tonight in Los Angeles. There's more "Quest Means Business" in a moment when Greece's finance minister Yanis
Varoufakis pays tribute to the game theorist John who's died and we get an exclusive look at the perks enjoyed by the business and political elite in
North Korea.
Before all of that, this is CNN and on this network the news always comes first.
The Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis says Greece will make scheduled debt payments to the IMF next month. It follows the country's
interior minister's warning that Greece won't have enough money and would prioritize paying civil servants and pensioners instead.
Speaking to me on "Quest Means Business," Mr. Varoufakis said the payments will continue to the IMF because there will be an agreement with
international creditors.
YANIS VAROUFAKIS, GREEK FINANCE MINISTER: It is common knowledge. Everybody knows some unstable (ph) partners and friends and institutions
that the Greek state cannot carry on making large payments to the IMF without an agreement.
Mr. Voutzis, my colleague from the cabinet - the interior minister - simply repeated something I've said on a number of occasions. And what I
said is, you know, just common sense.
[16:35:06] We have for four months been meeting our obligations to our creditors by extracting the last ounce of liquidity from our - you know -
our battered economy's fiber. We can't carry on doing this forever. And our creditors know that.
QUEST: Iraqi forces are on the outskirts of Ramadi waiting for orders to attack. Government troops backed by Shia militia and Sunni tribal
fighters are preparing for a counter offense to try to retake Ramadi from ISIS.
Human remains are being exhumed from more than 130 graves in Malaysia. The bodies were found near the border with Thailand and they're believed to
be the victims of human trafficking. Malaysia's prime minister has to find and punish those responsible.
Ten people have been killed by Boko Haram insurgents in Northeastern Nigeria where officials in the Madagali district say Boko Haram fighters
attacked residents of one village with machetes. The area where the attack took place had been held by Boko Haram until Nigeria's military regained
control of it in March.
And staying in Nigeria, the fuel crisis in the country is nearing its end. Businesses, banks and cell phone networks are shutting down as the
diesel generators run down. But now oil suppliers say the government has been paying them a billion dollars in unpaid oil bills while the government
accuses the oil suppliers of holding the country hostage.
Nigeria's finance minister told me crisis is almost over.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
NGOZI OKONJO-IWEALA, NIGERIAN FINANCE MINISTER: So I expect that by tomorrow, things should progress back to normal and particularly for a
product like diesel that is not soft the dice (ph), have nothing to do with government in it (ph) whatsoever. I want to make that clear.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
QUEST: At least three people are dead and 12 are missing after recorded - after record rains I beg your pardon - sent floods through
the U.S. states of Texas and Oklahoma.
Officials in the Texas city of San Marcos say hundreds of homes were wept off their foundations and many bridges were destroying,
leaving some residents stranded. Continued bad weather has forced the authorities to halt air rescues in some areas.
So many tributes are being paid to the Nobel Prize-winning mathematician John Nash. He and his wife Alicia were killed in a car
accident on Saturday. In a statement, the president of Princeton University where Mr. Nash had been for so many years and was on the faculty.
The president said,
CHRISTOPHER L. EISGRUBER, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: "John's remarkable achievements inspired generations of mathematicians,
economists and scientists who were influenced by his brilliant, groundbreaking work in game theory, and the story of his life with Alicia
which moved millions."
The RAND Corporation, a top-secret Washington think tank during the Cold War where Nash worked as a consultant issued a rare
statement, saying,
MICHAEL RICH, RAND CORP. CEO: "John contributed important insights into game theory which widened and deepened our understanding of
mutual deterrence and the nuclear arms race."
QUEST: Yanis Varoufakis is among those who are mourning the loss of John Nash. Mr. Varoufakis wrote on his Twitter Feed, "Reading
your work was inspirational. Meeting you and spending time together was an unearned bonus. Farewell, John Nash, Jr.
I asked the Greek finance minister how upsetting it must have been to hear of his death.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
VAROUFAKIS: It was. Firstly because as a games theorist of sorts, my life was very seriously impressed upon by the genius of John
Nash and secondly because I had the great opportunity to meet him when he was visiting Athens in the early 2000s and I actually spent a couple of
days with him, one of which was spent traveling to various archeological sites and having very intimate discussions that revealed another side of
his brilliant mathematical mind and his `beautiful mind' to quote the movie.
QUEST: Did you discuss with Mr. Nash any of your strategies recently that you're now looking at?
VAROUFAKIS: No, no because when I met John Nash, I think that during that phase of life -
QUEST: Right.
VAROUFAKIS: -- he steadfastly refused to discuss game theory. Which is very interesting. Nevertheless, every discussion we had,
whether it was the way I was driving or the way that staff in the restaurant behaved, it was tinged with his game theory way of thinking - it
was quite clear which made it even more fascinating.
QUEST: If I read one more article that suggests you are engaged in game theory in your negotiations with Europe, I'll probably
scream as I'm sure you're the same. Everybody suggests that you are. And that's not my question.
[16:40:12] My question is knowing game theory, having been exposed to it, do you find it a hindrance now you're having to negotiate?
VAROUFAKIS: No, I don't find it a hindrance. I find it irrelevant. Game theory's a wonderful tool for sharpening one's minds and
thinking. It's like chess. It's good for one's mind. But it is irrelevant to what we're doing. And the reason is, you know, something that
I used to teach my students when I was a professor, is that games - take chess - they're also given, you know precisely the motivation of the
opponent and it's simply a matter of finding the right strategy for winning within those rules of the game.
Whereas what we're engaged in - and that is the beauty of it - the beauty of politics - Europe engaged in a dialogue and the purpose
of a dialogue as Socrates would know and Plato, is to try to change other people and while you're change - you're trying to change their mind - you
changed your own.
QUEST: Right.
VAROUFAKIS: So it's a much more dynamic interaction and much more fascinating for it.
QUEST: Finally, sir, you did say in a recent article and there've been many, so forgive me I haven't got it in front of me. But you
did say the big difference between you and all other politicians is that you'll know when it's time to go. And if things - if you can't make a
difference, then you will go.
So let me ask you, sir, when will it be time for you to go?
VAROUFAKIS: We don't have a deal that ends this catastrophic inhuman crisis for the majority of the Greeks, a crisis which
is detrimental to the process of Europe as a whole. When we have such a deal, I will be able to turn around to my prime minister and say, "Well, I
could hang around a bit longer to implement, it but it's not absolutely necessary that I should."
QUEST: And if you can't get that deal, will you go?
VAROUFAKIS: Well this is a hypothetical and --
QUEST: (LAUGHTER).
VAROUFAKIS: -- I've learned over the last four months to try to avoid hypothetical questions from smart journalists like you, Richard.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
QUEST: The Greek finance minister. Now David Gabai is the chair of the mathematics department at Princeton University where John Nash taught.
He joins me now via Skype from Princeton, New Jersey to tell us more about the Nobel Laureate.
Sir, first of all our condolences to you and your colleagues on what an extraordinary loss for somebody who did such magnificent work. But I
need you to - for those who are not familiar with Mr. Nash and indeed his wife - his late wife - tell us what was it about him? What did he bring?
DAVID GABAI, MATHEMATICS DEPARTMENT CHAIR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Well Nash was an extraordinary mathematician and he was extraordinary because
not only did he do spectacular work but his work was something incredibly original.
I mean, you know, the highest-level mathematicians, you know, solve famous, long-standing problems. But what Nash did was he made amazing
discoveries about it didn't even occur to people to ask. So -
QUEST: Right.
GABAI: So it was just so striking what he has done.
QUEST: Did you - his game theory and the way in which he espoused game theory and his philosophy - did he use those theories practically in
his own negotiations or his own dealings with you, with the institutions, with the people he'd deal?
Did he put it into practice?
GABAI: Well, frankly, John Nash was above that. He was just so spectacular that he didn't have to say anything. That we just said
everything that we could to keep him around, to keep him happy, to make sure that the Princeton University administration really appreciated him.
QUEST: And when we now look of course at the extraordinary battles he had with his own personal problems, his own mental health issues - that
really shows - that's even more remarkable, isn't it? Because to have dealt with these issues, to have had to come back from them and still make
such magnificent contributions. I wonder what we learn that. Perhaps you can help me understand.
GABAI: Well, one thing really amazing about Nash was he was incredibly powerful - his mind, his will power - it was incredibly
powerful. I mean, just to be able to come back after, you know, such a difficult illness that almost he did this by pure willpower.
[16:45:07] And so the reflection of his mind was after he won the Abel Prize in Oslo on Tuesday that he was asked in an interview - said,
"Professor Nash, what would you be thinking about during those ten or more years that you lost in the 60s/70s? If you didn't have this sickness."
And his response was, "Well I could have been living in the Garden of Eden." By which he meant that he didn't want to make excuses for himself.
He could have been in an ideal situation and, you know, nothing to worry about, and that situation he could've very easily have not thought about
mathematics - that working was a choice and he wasn't making any excuses for himself.
QUEST: Professor, thank you so much, sir, for taking time out of your busy day, particularly on a holiday weekend. And, again, commiserations
which I know will be a terrible loss for you and your colleagues.
GABAI: Yes, thank you very much.
QUEST: Thank you, sir.
When we return, there is some extraordinary and very distressing flooding taking place in Texas and you'll see exactly how bad after the
break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: "Quest Means Business." I'm in Los Angeles. Now record- breaking rains have brought devastating floods to the U.S. state of Texas and Oklahoma. Ed Lavandera you see and join me now from Wimberley in
Texas. How bad is it?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Richard, a devastating scene here as you see mile and miles along the Blanco River here in the central
part of the state has taken on an incredible amount of rain in the overnight hours. Many people caught off guard and simply just raising to
get away from these floodwaters.
And you can see the scene behind me, Richard here, especially when you consider that the Blanco River which is responsible for the onslaught of
these floodwaters is a good distance back here off to my left. The water racing back this way knocking this one particular house off of the
foundation.
And as I mentioned, Richard, many people just barely had time to react and get out of their homes and reach safety.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
LAVANDERA; The torrential rainstorm jolted this usually sleepy river in this sleepy central Texas town in the middle of the night. For
thousands of residents along the Blanco River, it was a night of terror.
Male: Oh, my God! Stop! Stop! He needs to get out!
LAVANDERA; One person was killed here in central Texas and nearly 400 homes were washed away. The floodwaters cut a winding destructive path
through the town of Wimberley and San Marcos, Texas.
Twelve people are believed to be missing. They were part of a family gathering for Memorial Day Weekend at a river house. Search and rescue
teams are pushing through the debris along the riverbanks looking for the families which also includes small children.
JUDGE BERT COBB, HAYS COUNTY: Never did we in our wildest imagination think about the wall of water that would come down and do the destruction.
It came in rather quickly, and despite our efforts to inform the public and to warn people to evacuate, to take precautions, many people did not have
time to do that.
[16:50:14] LAVANDERA: David Marmalejo (ph) and his daughter Mary Jane are cleaning up the damage left by that wall of water. They know they're
lucky to be alive. They woke up to ankle-deep flood waters rushing into their home. By the time they woke everyone up and got out of the house, it
was already knee deep.
Female: Animals went running everywhere. It was like the scariest thing I've ever seen. I've never seen it so high - the water. But it was
within a matter of like two to three minutes, the waters was from ankles to your knees.
LAVANDERA: They didn't have time to grab their dog Oreo, but when they came back to the house after the flood waters receded, they found Oreo
alive.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
LAVANDERA: And, Richard, you know the difficult news here is that rain is still in the forecast and although the floodwaters have receded
already dramatically compared to where it was at the height of this storm and the worst parts of this storm, the rain here continues to fall and
(AUDIO GAP).
QUEST: And there you see an example of what they're facing. You could hear the plip, plip, plip of the rain and the line of course fell
because of the cloud cover and the rain through the cloud.
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is one year into his first term. The challenges are many. Has there been much progress? In a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: On Tuesday it's a year since the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi took office as leader of the world's largest democracy. And
in that year, there've been policy shifts, there has been some progressing growth and there's been plenty of criticism.
Sumnima Udas reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is one world leader who emerged in the public consciousness in 2014. It was Narendra
Modi. From a sold-out reception at New York's Madison Square Garden to an unprecedented welcome in China for an India Premiere.
Traveling an impressive 50 out of the past 365 days to some 18 countries. Modi embraced them all.
SHEKHAR GUPTA, SENIOR JOURNALIST: So much was expected of him. And frankly for me, nobody could have revolutionized India's economy in a year.
India's a juggernaut, it's a big, huge machine and on creaky wings. Billions and billions and billions of people in fact have to push forward.
One individual cannot do it.
UDAS: Few can deny the economy has improved. Stock markets soared, inflation dipped. Much of this a result of the collapse in global oil
prices. But still, India is set to overtake China and become the fastest- growing major economy this year.
The murmurs of dissatisfaction even amongst his biggest supporters - corporate India - are starting to be heard though. They say he hasn't
moved quickly enough with labor and tax reforms. Investor sentiment is also cooling.
But perhaps his biggest shortfall, many criticize Modi for not doing enough to stop members of his own Hindu Nationalist Party and allies from
organizing forced religious conversion ceremonies and making anti-minority statements in parliament.
[16:55:02] GUPTA: My pick (inaudible) pluralism - pluralism - it's India's greatest strength. I wish he had paid more attention to that. In
a diverse society like this, you have to reach out to minorities, ethnicities, give them a good reason to stay together.
UDAS: For his part, Modi did say his government will ensure freedom of faith. It is just one issue among many. Turning around a country as
big and diverse as India in one year was always going to be a challenge. But political observers say for the optimism and momentum to last and for
real change to happen, Modi needs to deliver more and soon.
Sumnima Udas, CNN New Delhi.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
QUEST: We'll have a "Profitable Moment" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment." Yanis Varoufakis said on this program that it is simply common sense that Greece will not be able to make
its payments unless there is a further deal with the Eurogroup and its creditors. That much we know. And so unless the deal happens before June,
Greece runs out of money, the payments aren't made and Greece either defaults or there has to be credit controls.
The problem is the underlying issue has not shifted one jot. Greece says too much austerity's being required, the others - the creditors - say
Greece has to follow through. And that has been the situation since day one. The distressing part of all of this is how little movement there has
been.
Credit controls and currency controls are on the horizon unless the two sides manage to get their act together for one very simple reason -
before long, everyone is going to be taking their cash out of Greece.
And that's "Quest Means Business" for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in Los Angeles. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, (RINGS BELL) I hope
it's profitable.
END
