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Quest Means Business

Greece, Eurozone Narrowly Avoid Crisis; Tsipras Must Sell Debt Deal to Country; Debt Deal Faces Opposition in Greece; Greeks React to Debt Deal; International Reaction to Greek Deal; Greek Banks Closed Until Thursday; Markets Rally After Greek Deal News; Banks React; Deal Still Minefield

Aired July 13, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:59:55] (NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE CLOSING BELL)

RICHARD QUEST, HOST: Michael Douglas is ringing the closing bell at the New York Stock Exchange.

(GAVEL POUNDS)

(CROWD CHEERS)

QUEST: Now, that's what you call a real gavel at the end of the trading day. Well done, Mr. Douglas, sir, from "Ant-Man" and Marvel. It's

Monday, it's July the 30th (sic).

A strong gavel and the deal is done. Now the hard work begins as Greece rushes to push difficult reforms through its parliament.

Athens in uproar. Hundreds are protesting, fearing more economic pain.

And the markets are rallying with relief after the longest-ever EU summit.

Back in London, I'm Richard Quest, and of course, I mean business.

Good evening, and a warm welcome to our program tonight. They were marathon negotiations, there was flaring tempers, and the talks neared

collapse. European leaders are dealing with the aftermath of a defining weekend in modern European financial history.

Greece and its partners have to execute the plan, which was so painful to put together. The Greek prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, is heading back

to Athens hoping to convince the country and the parliament to accept the new deal.

The Greek financial system is still closed, and even with the new agreement, the ECB has refused to increase emergency liquidity. It all

means the cash in the Greek banks will start to be running short.

And the tough negotiations over the weekend have left eurozone relations frayed. "The Financial Times" reports the European Council

president, Donald Tusk, had to stop Mr. Tsipras and the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, from walking out at one point. The French finance minister

praised the Greek government's resolve.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHEL SAPIN, FRENCH FINANCE MINISTER (through translator): I pay tribute to the courage, especially the political courage, of a government

which faced up to the difficulties, including the legitimate political debate -- and serious and difficult political debate -- to put in place,

finally, solid reforms, which will allow Greece to get out of the situation it finds itself in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now, Alexis Tsipras must now persuade his country and his parliament to accept a deal which many say is worse than the one that was

rejected in the referendum. Here are the details.

(RINGS BELL)

QUEST: The new agreement sees $55 billion in Greek assets that will be moved to this new fund. The scope of structural reforms has been

massively expanded. And all economic legislation needs approval from the creditors before going to the Greek parliament, as well as there'll be --

the rollbacks will need to be rolled back themselves.

The agreement specifically rules out any haircuts or cuts on Greece's debts, but it does offer the possibility of debt restructuring in the

future.

If the Sunday and Monday were busy, well, on Monday, once again, eurozone finance ministers had to go to work to discuss the 7 billion at

least in bridge financing required by the 20th of July. The money will be used by Greece to pay debts to the ECB, the IMF, and the Bank of Greece.

I spoke to the Finnish finance minister, Alex Stubb, and asked him how he and his colleagues were dealing with such an unprecedented crisis and

finding the money.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX STUBBS, FINNISH FINANCE MINISTER: The big thing here is that yesterday there was a road, and then that road went in two directions. One

direction was Grexit, and the other direction was a deal, and we found that deal.

Now, bridge financing is a short-term measure, approximately 7 billion euros that will be needed by the 20th of July. I'm sure some kind of a

solution will be found, and we're working on it.

But people also have to understand that for us, the finance ministers, it's very difficult to start to give bridge money, which is basically free

money, without any conditionality. So, we'll have to find some kind of another solution.

QUEST: Is it difficult to look at somebody like Euclid Tsakalotos, the finance minister, and although you're not talking personally about him

per se, but looking at him and saying to his face, "We don't trust you"?

STUBBS: No, we don't do that, and we don't say that. What we do say is that, listen, here we have a package, approximately 82 to 86 billion

euros, which tops up the already 370, 380 billion euros that we have helped you out with. We need conditionality. You need to do what you promised to

do.

And we say three steps of trust. Number one, as a government, go and sell this package at home. Show faith that you have backing for the deal.

Number two, vote it in your parliament.

[16:05:00] And then number three, we can start, perhaps, the negotiations on the new package. So, we just needed these locks in order

to be able to move forward, and I think we got them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: The Greek prime minister is championing the agreement as a victory. Alexis Tsipras says his government has brought about a major

change and created a new legacy for Europe. He also said the new agreement will help restore investor confidence in Greece. Mr. Tsipras did admit the

bailout terms will lead to economic pain for Greeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXIS TSIPRAS, PRIME MINISTER OF GREECE (through translator): Today's agreement keeps Greece in a state of financial stability. It gives

the possibilities for a recovery. It will, however, be an agreement whose implementation will be difficult. The measures included are the ones

passed in parliament. They will unavoidably cause recessionary effects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Alexis Tsipras still faces major hurdles at home. Senior members of his own party are now saying they will refuse to back the new

plan. I'm joined by Rania Antonopoulos, and she's Greece's deputy labor minister. So, we can be clear on where you stand, how will you be voting

on these various measures?

RANIA ANTONOPOULOS, GREEK DEPUTY LABOR MINISTER: I am in full support of my government and of the prime minister. At this juncture, we had to

literally save the country by accepting a host of measures that run against the grain of what this government --

QUEST: Right.

ANTONOPOULOS: -- stands for. But stability of the financial sector and renegotiating the debt, leaving some opening, some room for that, is a

key priority.

QUEST: Whichever way you look at this, the deal that you now have is worse than the deal that was on offer two to three weeks ago when Mr.

Tsipras walked out. So, a simple question: now we know the worst of this deal. Was that a mistake to have walked out and thrown away the deal that

you previously had?

ANTONOPOULOS: I think this agreement has definitely some very harsh measures. But I also think that there is room for us to say that this is

not a horrible, horrifying outcome. The investment package, of course, is a key priority of the government, has been a key priority of the

government, so that road can restart in our country.

QUEST: Right.

ANTONOPOULOS: But also, please recall that many of the structural changes proposed were part of the agenda and, in fact, opening up the

economy and making it more competitive, less -- relying less to oligopolistic structures that have been haunting the Greek economy, have

been key priorities of this government. So, I would say that definitely there are measures that will be terribly painful for our people --

QUEST: All right.

ANTONOPOULOS: -- but at the same time, we need to treat this as a period that we will roll up our sleeves and work hard and get through so

that we can --

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: OK --

ANTONOPOULOS: -- really focus on what is needed, which is investment --

QUEST: Right, but let --

ANTONOPOULOS: -- in this country.

QUEST: Right, but let me jump in here. The vote will get through parliament because the opposition -- all the opposition parties are pretty

much going to go along with it. But how hobbled is the government if it can't carry a mandate of its own MPs going forward after this?

ANTONOPOULOS: We will need to weigh very carefully the developments tomorrow and the day after tomorrow. There is a lot of disgruntlement

within the party, as you very well know. What the outcome of these discussions will be tomorrow and day after remains to be seen.

QUEST: Is it likely that the prime minister will have to refashion the coalition? And if necessary, could -- and I'm not as familiar,

obviously, with Greek politics -- but could he end up having to go to the country again?

ANTONOPOULOS: I most certainly hope that that will not be the case. I think that having a political stable environment, one that does not

invite another period of elections and whatever comes with it, is extremely important.

[16:10:06] I hope my colleagues in the parliament and in the government will recognize that this was a (inaudible). There is no

alternative moment that we were facing. I hope they will also recognize --

QUEST: Right.

ANTONOPOULOS: -- that Mr. Tsipras and this government has the best chance to lead the country out of the mess that the last five, six years

have gotten us into. And that at the end of the day --

QUEST: All right.

ANTONOPOULOS: -- very calmly, we will be able to move on to the next stage.

QUEST: And we hope to talk to you about these moves as the Greek vote continues. Thank you for joining us, Minister.

Now, we've heard how the politicians have reacted to Monday's announcement. It's the ordinary Greeks who will be the most affected by

the decisions in Brussels, of course. CNN's Isa Soares has been looking at how the news of the deal, worse or better, depending on your point of view,

but how that deal has been received at home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dazed and confused, Greeks woke up to a new reality with even more austerity and

tougher reforms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are not good. This is left system for the people nothing.

(CROWD CHANTING)

SOARES: It's a stark contrast to the celebrations in Athens more than a week ago after a national referendum. Greeks voted no to an EU deal with

even less austerity than today's agreement, an even harder pill to swallow for many who had hoped for a different outcome.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We tried the medicine two -- the same medicine two times before, and it failed spectacularly.

SOARES: Even before a deal was finally reached in Brussels, there was indignation in Athens and anger towards Germany's hard line. Blaring

headlines, "Monster bailout, Greece in Auschwitz." For some, the latest deal was just too much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All these reforms could happen five years ago, when people had some more money. Now, we're dry.

SOARES: As the details of the deadline trickled in, the mood went from shock to outrage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people of Greece had already lost a lot of their rights, all the years have passed. Now, they lose everything.

SOARES: Some Athenians we spoke to are just resigned to it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this deal was necessary in order to avoid chaos in Greece and disorder throughout the eurozone. It was almost the

best possible and the (inaudible).

SOARES: Now, its leader is racing against time. Alexis Tsipras has only 48 hours to convince parliament to push these measures through or the

banks will run out of cash.

TSIPRAS (through translator): I have the feeling, the confidence, and the hope that the 35 billion euro development package, which we managed,

along with the debt restructuring and secure financing for the next three years, will create the feeling among markets and investors that a Grexit is

a thing of the past.

SOARES: No Grexit, but banks are still closed at least through Wednesday. And no sign of capital controls being lifted.

SOARES (on camera): All this is adding pressure on the Greek people, who are emotionally and financially drained by this crisis. They may not

like the terms of this deal, as the rally behind me shows, but even Alexis Tsipras, the Greek prime minister who has fought every step of the way,

acknowledges that this is the best possible outcome.

Isa Soares, CNN, Athens, Greece.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: No relief yet for the Greek banks. Up next, why they're still mired in crisis as the shutdown stretches into a third week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:42] QUEST: A lot of work still has to be done before Greece gets any real rescue money. The international reaction is focusing on

that.

So, for instance, the IMF has issued a statement saying it's ready to work with Greece to implement the terms of the bailout, which is somewhat

remarkable, bearing in mind that one of the very biggest sticking points was Greece's refusal or rejection of having the IMF involved. Well, they

lost that point, and the IMF is involved.

US treasury secretary Jack Lew has called the deal an important step forward, and he said it's a basis for restoring trust between Greece and

eurozone partners. It's well-known that the White House and the Treasury were extremely concerned and have been monitoring events closely.

When asked to comment at a press conference on his plane home, Pope Francis said it's too simple to say the fault is only on one side. The

pope says he hopes Greece's experience will help other countries avoid the same situation.

Even with a deal, banks in Greece will stay closed until Thursday. This extended closure follows the ECB's decision on Monday not to increase

funding for the banks. The cash-strapped banks shut their doors two weeks ago and ordinary citizens have been lining up to make limited withdrawals

from ATMs.

Bill Rhodes is president and chief exec of William Rhodes Global Advisors, a senior advisor at CitiGroup, and the author of "Banker to the

World." He joins me from New York. Bill, good to see you, as always, and to help us understand what is happening here. You're not surprised, I

assume, that the ECB didn't take the agreement last night as a political cover to restart emergency lending?

BILL RHODES, PRESIDENT AND CEO, WILLIAM RHODES GLOBAL ADVISORS: I think the ECB wants to see the Greek parliament approve this. And you

remember, Richard, when I was on your show two months ago, you asked me specifically, will there be a default. I said yes. And then you said,

will there be a Greek exit? Will there be a deal? I said there'll be no Greek exit because Tsipras wants to stay within the eurozone, and so do the

Greek people. So, that's what's happened.

I think the real problem, as I mentioned to you then, is going to be the Greek banking system, because some of those banks -- there are four

major banks -- some of them will need to be recapitalized. And so, I think that's key, because without a healthy banking system open every day to the

public, you're not going to get the economy coming back.

QUEST: Right. But the privatization fund, or the trust fund, or whatever we want to call it, that's going to have up to 55 -- 50, 55

billion in it, of which 25 billion is going to be used for bank recapitalizing. That is necessary, but is it sufficient?

RHODES: That's the real question. Not clear. It depends on the bank, probably, because the -- there are four major banks, and each one has

a different type portfolio. Some of them have bigger non-performing than others. So, it's not clear that it'll be enough.

And of course, that goes on the basis the Greeks will implement this deal as they have promised to do. And as you know, each time they've

gotten into one of the these, they've had to redo it. And then of course, there's --

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: Ah, but hang on --

RHODES: -- going to have to be debt relief.

QUEST: I will get to debt relief in just a second. The -- what you have just said there, Bill, is the crucial point. Because if they don't

implement, we're back to square one. And -- I mean, do you have confidence that the agreement that was reached yesterday, along with the measures that

they will take this week in terms of legislating, are trust-building and will work?

RHODES: I think if they are really pursued in the proper fashion, it can work, but only with debt relief. They cannot repay this amount of debt

that's out there, much less the debt they're taking on, which is somewhere between 177 percent of GDP and 180 percent of GDP. So, there will be debt

relief in some form, even if it's only extending maturities and cutting back on interest rates.

QUEST: Does -- the agreement last night specifically says there will be no haircuts and, indeed, Chancellor Merkel made that abundantly clear.

Would re-profiling the debt, per se, just shoving out maturities, maybe doing other things on the interest rate, would that have a major effect

when the debt is so great?

[16:20:14] RHODES: Well, I think you have to see how they implement this thing, particularly with regards to privatization. Because this has

been talked about for five years, and very little privatization has occurred. And in the successful cases we've seen in other countries,

Portugal being an example, there was a lot of privatization going on.

QUEST: Right.

RHODES: And you've seen that in Latin America and other areas where you've had difficult debt situations. So, it'll depend on how the

implement this. But certainly the agreement per se, without some sort of debt relief, will not work over time.

QUEST: Finally, Bill, you are a scholar and a student of these sort of long, late, painfully detailed negotiations. This one went 17 hours.

How torrid do you think it was?

RHODES: I think it was very tough, because there's a lot of bad will on both sides. And we even had a split in the eurozone itself between

France and Italy on the one side and German, Finland, Slovakia on the other side.

And I think that, first of all, we need to see a period of time where both parties are willing to work together in a positive fashion. And that

is really going to be key to the implementation.

Obviously, the approval of the Greek parliament is key, and you might even have to have reelections going forward. Although your previous guest

said she didn't think so. But I think there's probably a reasonable chance that we're going to have to see reelections in the next six months to a

year to make sure that this agreement is properly implemented over time.

QUEST: Bill, we're grateful, sir, that you have come in and given us your expertise. You've solved a few crises -- financial crises in your

life, and so, thank you for helping us understand what this one -- where it goes next.

RHODES: It's always --

QUEST: I appreciate it.

RHODES: It's always great to be with you, Richard. You cover things so well.

QUEST: Ah! You're too kind, sir. Thank you.

Now, markets across Europe rallied on Monday. Better to have a bell for that.

(RINGS BELL)

QUEST: In Germany, Paris, and Madrid, stocks closed up 1.5 percent or more. Banks shares performed particularly well. The London FTSE was up

some 1 percent. That's what happens when you get a deal at 9:00 in the morning.

It's not only investors who are optimistic. We're going to show you the US stocks reacted to the Greek deal next. It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS,

and there you see a strong, strong reaction, up more than 200 points.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Leading banks are having their say about the deal between Greece and its creditors. If you join me at the super screens, in the

library, you'll see what I'm talking about. Let's see -- this is a sort of a distillation, a few of the brokerage reports and economic analysis that I

got this morning when I got back to London.

Barclay's has issued a research, saying that while that talks are headed in the right direction, their view is longer-term risks remain if

negotiations do not stay on track.

[16:24:54] Schroders, the UK investment giant, says that the Rubicon has been crossed. Now, the reason they say "Rubicon," that refers to the

last two lines of the agreement, which said that if the deal was not accepted, then they should move to swift negotiations for a time out of the

euro area. What Schroders is calling a Rubicon.

Let's face it, once you've suggested once that somebody could have a time out, can it be that far before somebody else is?

The Swiss bank UBS says the whole episode exposes failures of the European structure. I just hope -- and proves the decades are warning that

the eurozone can't survive.

But -- but -- despite all of this, US markets rallied in Monday's trading. This is how it looked. The Dow was up about 1.5 percent in a

session marked by record prices, up 217. And just look -- haven't got my pen with me today -- but that gain started in the day, and really, it

stayed all -- well, it increased all the way up to the close of business.

CNN Money's digital correspondent Paul La Monica joins me from New York. Are -- was this Grex hello, Grex euphoria that we saw in the market?

PAUL LA MONICA, CNN MONEY DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it was. Investors are definitely crossing their fingers, but buying, and hoping

that the Greek crisis, even if it's not over, per se -- you know full well that it's not going to be over for a long time -- that at the very least,

the concerns about a Grexit are probably in the rear-view mirror, and investors can now focus on other things, like the Fed and corporate

earnings, and things of that nature.

QUEST: Paul La Monica in New York. Thank you, sir, putting that part of the story for us tonight. The week ahead puts the dreaded Grexit back

on the table potentially -- potentially -- according to the analysts at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Thanos Vamvakidis is the managing director

of Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

THANOS VAMVAKIDIS, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BANK OF AMERICA MERRILL LYNCH: Richard.

QUEST: You and I have discussed this many times. What do you -- in a nutshell, what do you make of the agreement last night?

VAMVAKIDIS: We came very, very close to Grexit. But I think that was a positive development. There are clearly many risks ahead, but for now,

we have avoided the worst.

QUEST: Right. What's the biggest risk ahead for you at the moment?

VAMVAKIDIS: The Greek politics, they can be messy. The government has lost its majority. They need to form a new government coalition this

week. And --

QUEST: Right, but they can get the -- I mean, I can understand why a mandate is necessary in the future, but just to get through these votes,

they've got that with the opposition.

VAMVAKIDIS: Yes, the opposition will come to the rescue, but they cannot possibly implement this agreement with this government. So, they

need to form a new government coalition.

This can be a positive development, because for the first time, you'd have a grand coalition in Greece that will start implementing reforms. But

as we know very well, the Greek politics can be messy and unpredictable.

QUEST: So, help me understand. Because I had a couple of arguments with people on trains and shops in Athens last week who all said that the

deal that was offered -- that the prime minister had actually got them a better deal.

VAMVAKIDIS: Not really. Definitely the delay that we had has led to a worse deal. Greece could have had a much better deal in September with

the former government, in February when this government took over, three weeks ago, before the referendum.

But given where we were, the only alternative was Grexit. So, looking forward, now it is extremely important to focus on the reforms in the deal

to support the recovery.

QUEST: Right, but I realize that you're sort of -- you're neutral in all of this. But it leaves one wondering -- and since it's over for the

moment -- was it a waste of time? Was it a monumental mistake the likes of which will be causing economic problems for a long time in Greece?

VAMVAKIDIS: All this delay definitely was a huge mistake. But we have to understand where the government came from. It had the support of

the people to try to get a better deal. They had some --

QUEST: But there was never going to be a better deal on offer. There was never going to be.

VAMVAKIDIS: This indeed proved to be the case. This indeed proved --

QUEST: You knew that.

VAMVAKIDIS: We have been talking about it for some time now. I really thought that the eurogroup agreement of February 20 was a great

opportunity to have a deal back then. This was missed, and since then, every week that they were delaying --

QUEST: Right.

VAMVAKIDIS: -- they had a worse chance for a deal.

QUEST: You, sir, will be back again to help us understand as it works through, if you'll be as kind.

VAMVAKIDIS: Thank you --

QUEST: Thank you very much.

Now, it was a case of no deal and no sleep for the leaders anyway. We'll show you how that deal came together over 17 hours after the break.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

[16:30:04] (RINGS BELL)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest in Athens. There's more "Quest Means Business" in just a moment when the Finland's finance minister tells us

what it was like to negotiate for 17 hours on Greece.

And another country, another massive debt pile and another set of bailout talks. We're not talking about Greece, it's Ukraine. Before all

of that, this is CNN and on this network the news always comes first.

We may have to wait at least another day for the end to a 13-year-old - 13-year standoff - over Iran's nuclear program. The negotiators in

Vienna are reportedly very close to reaching a final agreement. Sources tell CNN the biggest sticking point is Iran's insistence that any deal

should include the lifting of an arms embargo.

Greece's Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras is racing to convince his parliament to approve a package of reforms before a vote on Wednesday.

Without parliament's approval, the country's third European bailout cannot move forward. European leaders have agreed on a new $96 billion bailout

offer in principle. It will keep Greece in the Euro.

Finland's finance minister told me why the terms were so strict.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ALEX STUBB, FINNISH FINANCE MINISTER: The truth is that we needed very tough conditionality. At the end of the day European integration is

about trust. And that trust is built through institutions, it's built through laws and then it is built also through sticking to the rules and

regulations that we decide on.

And we've been so many times in a situation whereby a deal has not been trusted or it has not been implemented, and this time we just needed

to be absolutely sure and that's why we built these steps of trust into the agreement.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: As you're aware, there's a massive manhunt underway in Mexico after the country's most notorious drug lord escaped from prison. There's

been no sign of Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman since he'd disappeared on Saturday.

You will be aware he escaped through a tunnel below the shower in his prison cell. The U.S. says it's working with Mexico to ensure his re-

arrest.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: The Attorney General of the United States Loretta Lynch telephone her counterpart yesterday to offer

the full support of the United States government to the Mexican government as they undertake an operation to try to recapture Mr. Guzman.

[16:35:06] Obviously the United States will, you know, is very interested in making sure that Mr. Guzman is brought to justice. He faces

very serious crimes, not just in Mexico, but he's been charged with some serious crimes in the United States as well.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: In Russia at least 23 people have been killed in a barracks collapse at a military base in the Siberian town of Omsk. The Russian

media reports some 42 service members were trapped beneath the debris. Rescuers pulled out 19 survivors. The building had been recently

renovated.

And Iraq's government has announced a new offensive against ISIS. Joint Iraqi forces are now moving to retake Anbar Province where the

militant group is deeply entrenched. Shia militia fighters say they've already started assaulting the ISIS-held city of Fallujah.

Everybody who was involved said they had never seen anything like it or been through such an ordeal. It was a tense 17 hours, capping five

months of missed deadlines, multiple crisis summits and a healthy or unhealthy dose of acrimony.

And now the leaders met together and in small groups as days stretched into evening, evening into night and then back into early morning. At some

points, the talks appeared close to collapse and the key throughout was trust.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JEROEN DIJSSELBLOEM, EUROGROUP PRESIDENT: We've come a long way, solved a lot of issues but some big issues still remain, so we're now going

to inform the leaders and they can discuss and hopefully decide on those last issues.

MARTIN SCHULZ, EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT PRESIDENT: The heads of state of government gathering here today have a duty. They must conclude today a

deal. The overbearing majority of the members of the European Parliament would be happy if Greece sticks now to the proposals they've put on the

table.

QUEST: It is 7 o'clock in the evening here in Brussels and the talks on the Greek debt crisis are stretching long and late into another evening.

The question being asked here in Brussels - can Greece be trusted to keep its word?

QUEST: In case no agreement could be reached, Greece should be offered swift negotiations on a "time-out" from the Euro area with

possible debt restructuring. That is the temporary Grexit that everyone has been talking about. We were told yesterday that nobody was talking

about Grexits. Oh, yes they are.

QUEST: The hour grows late and the meetings continued. A leaked copy of the proposals from the Eurogroup finance ministers reveals Greece needs

a bailout of up to $96 billion.

(CLIP OF NEGOTIATORS RESTING ON THEIR DESKS AND COMPUTERS)

QUEST: Over my shoulder -- you can't really see too clearly-- but over my shoulder on the floor of the meeting room here, all these little

huddles are now taking place. This is the so-called briefing time.

This is where the making of the sausages takes place.

QUEST: Two major areas of contention that could drive this over the edge. First of all, the specific mention of the involvement of the IMF in

any future negotiations. The second big issue is the privatization fund. Now the Greeks say 50 billion euros is too much, they want a smaller number

- maybe 17 billion.

QUEST: The Belgian prime minister has tweeted one word - "agreement." The nature, the terms, the extent and the range of that deal we don't know.

And - ha-ha - here we go - get the brass band out, prepare the breaking news. Donald Tusk has now tweeted, "Euro Summit has unanimously

reached agreement. All ready to go for ESM program for Greece with serious reforms and financial support.

DONALD TUSK, EUROPEAN COUNCIL PRESIDENT: Today we had only one objection - to reach an agreement. After 17 hours of negotiations, we have

finally reached it. Someone can say that we have an "AGreekment".

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: I was waiting for the "AGreekment." Well, it was an extraordinary night, and if the talks were intense for the journalists

covering it, they were unimaginably tough for the ministers actually involved.

[16:40:12] Finland's finance minister Alex Stubb had a front-row seat to the drama that unfolded in Brussels, particularly earlier on the

Saturday and on the Sunday when the European finance ministers - or the Eurogroup finance ministers - were negotiating the draft of the agreement.

I asked him whether they were the hardest negotiations he's known.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

STUBB: It was probably one of the toughest, and I've been involved in the E.U. negotiations for the better part of 20 years as a civil servant

and later as a politician.

This was certainly very difficult because we all knew that we were on the brink. There wasn't a gray issue anymore - it was black and white -

either they were in or out. And we wanted to give Greece one more chance, therefore the negotiations were very tough.

QUEST: And that came through very late last night in the sense that I kept wondering why are they pushing so hard. When I listen to Angela

Merkel in her press conference and Francois Hollande, there was this determination when you thought, "Just turn off the lights and go home."

STUBB: Yes, I mean, sometimes in the negotiations you come to a situation where you basically have to stop the clock on the wall and get a

result. And I think that was very much the way in which head of state government felt last night.

It was a little bit easier for us finance ministers. We had the time, we had a deadline, we were able to give a document. But it was certainly a

very difficult situation because everyone knew it was about the future of the E.U. and it was about the future of the Eurozone, and certainly about

the future of Greece as well.

QUEST: Pulling the strands together of the last few days, it's - what do you make of it all? Because it's difficult to know from the moment when

they - the - Greek government walked out, to calling the referendum, right the way through the referendum to yesterday and today. What do you make of

it?

STUBB: Well I've never seen a process like this in my sort of 20 years involved with E.U., the E.U. institutions. It was completely

unforeseen. I would have never thought that a referendum will be organized on the basis of a proposal by the institutions, I never thought that the

referendum would be declined.

I never thought that we would put basically conditions which are much tougher than were rejected in the referendum on the table. I never thought

the head of state government would have had an all-nighter. And I never thought that we could go this close to the brink with Greece. But we did,

and at the end of the day we found a solution.

But, you know, we're not there yet. I talked about the three steps of trust. We need to have proof that the Greek government supports this deal,

--

QUEST: Right.

STUBB: -- we need to have a decision by the Greek Parliament by tomorrow or day after tomorrow and then we'll see if we can start the

negotiations.

So it certainly has been a rough ride, there's no denying that. There are no winners or losers I think in this whole thing.

I'm a staunch pro-European. I believe in institutions, I believe in common rules but I also believe that in order for you to be a true pro-

European, you have to abide by those rules. That's what European integration is all about and we have seen a lack of trust in the past few

weeks which I have not seen previously in European integration history.

QUEST: And finally, did you have a momentary wince when you saw that last - those last - two lines in the original draft document that talked

about a time-out for the - from the Euro area for Greece? Because that is the first time that we've ever seen in an official document the possibility

of Grexit.

STUBB: No, I didn't wince because as I said previously, I think we stood at a crossroads and there was a possibility for a time out from the

Eurozone - which of course would have been historic and unheard of, and it could've had unforeseen consequences because as I said previously, there's

no prewritten script.

But we managed to pull that back and we managed to find a solution, and now it's up for the Greek Parliament to show goodwill and faith and

approve this package and then we can move things forward.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: That's Alex Stubb, the finance minister of Finland talking to me earlier. The bailout is under threat, but we're not talking about

Greece. It's in Ukraine. A stark warning from the IMF next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:46:55] QUEST: Huge debts that can't be paid, multi-billion dollar bailouts and international creditors demanding reforms. It's not only

Greece that has a major debt crisis right now. Ukraine is trying to secure a $40 billion bailout in a cash-for-reforms deal.

The IMF warned over the weekend that measure is up for consideration in the Ukrainian Parliament could jeopardize those efforts.

Ukraine's economy and finance ministers are in Washington. They're looking for investments from American businesses. Just look - you can see

the difference - $40 billion or Ukraine, $96 billion for Greece.

Ukrainian economy minister Aivaras Abromavieius joins me exclusively from Washington. You're talking - you're there sort of on - you're trying

to convince people in Washington to invest, and obviously you have an extremely difficult task in the sense that there are so many deep economic

issues. How are you squaring that circle?

AIVARAS ABROMAVIEIUS, UKRAINIAN ECONOMY MINISTER: Well thank you very much. The business forum which was dedicated to U.S./Ukraine business

relations has just finished. We had a massive attendance from the American side. T'was a high level of participation from the Ukrainian side

including Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk. I would say the forum was a success.

We had received an acknowledgement of early progress in the number of economic reforms which is exactly what this new government is there to do,

and we also got commitments from selected American companies to invest in Ukraine and a number of deals have been -

QUEST: Right.

ABROMAVIEIUS: -- announced in the agricultural sector, oil and gas and technology sector.

QUEST: But the reforms necessary - because I, you know, -- every time I've looked at the Ukrainian economy, the reforms necessary are always on

the table and I question how far you are - I mean, I'm not suggesting you're do a Greece and sort of promising and not delivering - but you do

need to move further and you do need to move faster. And would you accept that?

ABROMAVIEIUS: Absolutely. I accept that the progress is not good enough. We're doing our job, the government is in place for seven months.

There's a number of things that have been done, however already we're not just talking the talk, we are walking the walk.

We embrace reforms while Greece as you know is rejecting reforms. The reforms have - that have been - in place and been implemented first of all

is the gas market reform which is very much about fighting corruption. When you were involved in gas trades between Russia and Ukraine, you either

got super rich or went to jail. So the gas market reform completely revolizes(ph). The market will no longer buy -

QUEST: Right.

ABROMAVIEIUS: -- majority of gas from Russia. It comes from Europe's Statoil from Norway's number one supplier. Number two reform is the

banking sector reform where we're cleaning up the entire sector - 49 banks out of 118 the span of last one and a half years have been shut down -

[16:50:07] QUEST: All right -

ABROMAVIEIUS: -- and then a lot of progress on deregulation front as well.

QUEST: When do you expect to see real tangible benefits? And by that I mean people are always saying, 'Yes, we like to invest' and 'we'll think

about investing' and 'we may well invest,' but when do you expect to see an economy that is running satisfactory to you?

ABROMAVIEIUS: Absolutely. It's second year in a row that we have substantial economic decline, but we witnessed both recessions and

recoveries in the past 30 years in some of the neighboring countries. So if we stay on a firm course of reforms - of economic reforms and we stay

united with parliament and the (presential/provincial) (ph) administration, I am certain that the worst microeconomic financial debt is behind and

already 2016 is going to bring us back on the path of growth.

QUEST: Sir, thank you very much indeed for joining us. I appreciate it -

ABROMAVIEIUS: Thank you, it's an honor.

QUEST: -- from Washington tonight. (Inaudible) to have you on the program. Thank you, sir. "Quest Means Business continues just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Gamers are mourning the loss of Nintendo's president Satoru Iwata passed away on Saturday after a long illness. The 55-year-old is

credited with bold decision that ended up bringing video games to a totally new audience. Our Asian-Pacific editor Andrew Stevens reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN ASIA PACIFIC EDITOR: A CEO with a difference. Satoru Iwata was known for his YouTube broadcasts like this, delivering the

news about Nintendo's latest games directly to its fans. Iwata spoke to gamers because he was a gamer.

He started as a programmer at HAL Laboratory working on the Kirby series and other popular titles for Nintendo. That's where he caught the

eye of Nintendo's long-time leader, Hiroshi Yamauchi, who chose him as his successor in 2002.

Iwata took over a Nintendo in decline, struggling to compete against giants like Sony and Microsoft. But within five years, he'd turned the

company around. His plan was to let his rivals fight for hardcore gamers. Instead, he created the DS and Wii, two consoles to attract people who

don't play games. It worked. Scenes like this became common -- Senior citizens bowling on the Wii - proof that Nintendo and Iwata had expanded

the definition of gamer.

But that success would not continue. Nintendo's next console, the Wii U flopped and many wondered just how long Nintendo's handhelds could hold

out against Smartphone gaming. These troubled times for Nintendo came at a tough time for Iwata. He didn't attend E3 in June - gaming's biggest

annual show. But Iwata had a typically quirky solution.

MALE ANNOUNCER: We're ready to start filming the Nintendo Digital event for E3 2015.

IWATA AS A MUPPET: OK, thank you.

[16:55:06] STEVENS: Iwata gave his presentation on YouTube as a Muppet. Speaking to gamers one last time as only he could. Satoru Iwata

was 55. Andrew Stevens, CNN Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment." Look at how the market's traded today. Let's start with New York and you'll see that the Dow Jones

Industrials roared up along with the European stock markets. The Europeans were up the best part of 1 percent to 2 percent. The Dow Jones was up some

1.2 percent at 217.

Because tonight's "Profitable Moment" that's what happens with a market rally when you get a Greek agreement - or an "AGreekment" as Donald

Tusk called it. It was the most extraordinary 24 hours. In actual fact, it was an extraordinary two weeks going from the moment when the banks were

closed right the way through to the referendum and then on to the final AGreekment.

But the real hard work does begin now because unless the Greek Parliament passes the measures unless the government actually implements

the reforms, we will be back here in just a couple of years and it'll be much more ugly then.

Nobody wants to forecast that actually nothing's changed but everybody's thinking it at the same time. The (onus) on both sides to

prove that this time will be different.

And that's "Quest Means Business" for this Monday night. I'm Richard Quest in London. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, (RINGS BELL) --

I'm off now for a few weeks - I hope it's profitable.

END