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Quest Means Business
Bomb Blast Kills 18 in Bangkok, Injures 117; Search for Indonesian Plane to Resume Tuesday; Questions Over Safety of Indonesian Airlines; Indonesian Air Travel Growing Quickly; Amazon Denies Mistreating Staff
Aired August 17, 2015 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:59:55] (NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE CLOSING BELL)
RICHARD QUEST, HOST: From a sharp fall at the start of trading, the market has recovered quite considerably. It's up some 68 points for the
Dow Jones, 17,540.
(GAVEL POUNDS)
QUEST: And a strong gavel on Monday, the 17th of August.
Tonight, 18 people are dead in a bombing in Bangkok. The government says it's an attack on Thailand's economy.
Searchers are struggling to reach the debris from the plane crash in a remote part of Indonesia.
And Bezos hits back. The Amazon boss says there's nothing wrong with his company's culture.
I'm Richard Quest. We start a new week together, and I mean business.
Good evening. A deadly bomb blast has ripped through the center of Bangkok, and the government says it was a terrorist attack designed to
destroy Thailand's economy and tourism industry. So far, we don't know who was responsible for planting the device.
These are the facts as we understand them. The bomb went off in a Hindu shrine. You can see the pictures there of the explosion during the
evening rush hour. It was around 7:00 in the evening. It was close to a busy intersection. It was in the heart of Bangkok.
Twelve people died at the scene, six more people died in hospital. The number of people murdered is believed to be at least 18, 117 further
people are injured.
The shrine and the area around it are popular with tourists, especially from China. Thousands of tourists visit each day, and so far,
no one has admitted committing the atrocity. An eyewitness witnessed the explosion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via telephone): All of a sudden, I hear a loud, loud noise, and then smoke just coming through. And then, about a few
seconds later, people rushed in all directions. They were coming towards me, they were going into the intersection. Everyone was just -- it was
just a chaotic moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: A chaotic moment. Our correspondent Andrew Stevens is now in Bangkok, joins me live. Andrew, first of all, tell us the current
situation.
ANDREW STEVENS, CNN ASIA PACIFIC EDITOR: Well, the current situation is it's just around 3:00 in the morning here, Richard. The whole area is
now cordoned off. Investigators, as we understand, are at the scene. But as you say, there's a lot of theory, there's a lot of speculation swirling
around who is responsible and why at the moment, but very few facts on the ground.
You're right, where I'm standing, I'm about 200 meters or so away from the blast site. You can't really see it, it's just over my right shoulder,
just where these bright lights are. But this is the busiest shopping precinct in Bangkok, a city, as you know, which is known for its shopping.
And the shrine, the Erawan Shrine, was a very popular destination, particularly for Chinese tourists. They would come to the shrine, they
would make offerings in the hope of getting a blessing from the Hindu god, which is a representation here of Brahman.
It was popular with Chinese, it was also a tourist spot. And also locals would come here. That blast went off, or that bomb went off, at
7:00 in the evening, maximum impact on the -- on human life. As we know, 18 dead at the moment. This place would have been absolutely crowded. The
pictures we've seen, the place is teeming after work, people coming home after work, going to the shrine.
So, at the moment, the police aren't giving any suggestions on what was behind -- or who was behind it, I should say -- but as you point out,
the police chief has said this could be an attack on Thailand's economy. Tourism is a very, very strong part -- big part of the economy, 7 percent
of the economic -- of the economy is made up --
QUEST: Right.
STEVENS: -- of tourism, Richard. So that could be one lead, obviously, that's being followed by the government at the moment.
QUEST: Andrew, in the short term, you've been there. What's the mood?
STEVENS: Well, it's difficult to judge at the moment because the streets behind me are empty. Obviously, there was a lot of panic as --
just after the blast went off, people, as we heard, running in all directions.
This -- I would say this would be one of real shock here. Bangkok is no stranger to street demonstrations and, in times, street violence. 2006,
three people died in political protests on the streets here. And IEDs, improvised explosive devices, were used and did claim lives. But nothing
like the extent of the blast we've seen here today.
[16:04:56] So, this is a whole new situation for not only the people in Bangkok, but the people of Thailand are going to be waking up with and
confronting today -- and I certainly would imagine, it will be one of shock. Just the scale of that blast, the fact that it was timed to cause
maximum impact, maximum damage, a maximum loss of human life, Richard.
QUEST: Andrew Stevens, who is in Bangkok, now, for us tonight.
The blast happened in the main shopping district that Andrew was just talking about, an extremely popular area with tourists. Join me at the
super screen, and I'll give you some perspective on where all this is. Well, obviously, that's Thailand, that's Bangkok, the capital, right
towards the south.
The platinum --
(AUDIO GAP)
QUEST: -- is nearby --
(AUDIO GAP)
QUEST: -- area, and the central world is one of the largest moles in the world. Around the Erawan Shrine in this particular area are loads of
four- and five-star hotels. And in fact, the shrine itself is just at the foot of the hill which has got the Hyatt hotel.
The tourist attractions are many and varied, and the city's sky train runs just overhead. According to the Institute for Economics and Peace,
Thailand is one of the ten countries most impacted by terrorism. Look at the map and you'll see some -- these are the top ten. You'll see some ones
that you'll be well familiar with: Somalia, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, and Nigeria.
But surprisingly -- or you might be surprised to see -- that it's -- the situation is worse in Thailand, so they say, than countries like Libya
and Turkey.
The vast majority of terrorist incidents have been in the south of the country. It's an insurgency between Muslim separatists and the government.
Businesses have typically been the target, so it's a classic case no just of terrorism for fear, but economic terrorism as well. Three quarters of
the attacks go unclaimed or aren't attributed to any particular group.
Joseph Liow Chin Yong is a senior fellow and Lee Kuan Yew chair of Southeast Asian studies at the Brookings Institution. He joins me now from
Washington. I -- I'm aware of the political uncertainty: the coups, the differences of governments. But I wasn't aware of the rate of terrorism
until today.
JOSEPH LIOW CHIN YONG, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: Well, it is quite a substantial rate, as you pointed out, Richard. And most of it
has been concentrated in the southern border provinces.
Although you do see more than sporadic violence of that nature in Bangkok as well over the last few years. A lot of it perpetrated by
either side of the divide, supporters of the current military junta as well as opponents of it who were supporters of the former prime minister,
Thaksin Shinawatra.
QUEST: But that sort of disruption and unrest, that's political, and it's on the streets. It doesn't usually break out into bombs in this sort
of way, does it?
YONG: Well, there have been a number of bomb blasts. Not to this magnitude that we have just seen. But certainly even earlier this year,
there were a number of bomb blasts in Bangkok, smaller ones, and in some resorts as well, like Koh Samui. But having said that, the most recent one
is by far the most devastating.
QUEST: Right.
YONG: And the facts all point to a desire to really exact maximum casualty tolls, as far as the perpetrators are concerned. So, yes --
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: And to this idea --
YONG: -- it is different on the landscape.
QUEST: To this idea of it being a version of economic terrorism designed to harm the economy, where tourism is 10 percent of the economy
and this was a major tourist area, that would make sense. I mean, it doesn't make sense, but that would seem to be the rationale for this.
YONG: Well, there certainly will be economic repercussions. The Rajprasong area where this attack happened is a major tourist thoroughfare,
and given the dependence of the Thai economy on tourism, this will certainly have an impact.
Tomorrow morning, you'll start seeing all the travel advisories from the various ministries of foreign affairs and embassies, and you will see
an impact on tourism --
QUEST: Right.
YONG: -- in the years to come.
QUEST: Clarify this for me, if you will, sir. Is it your view that this was political terrorism, or religious terrorism?
YONG: Well, my own view is that it will be interesting to see whether or not this was linked to, as I mentioned earlier, the political
polarization that we have seen on the Thai political sphere that has taken place over the last few years. Because I think that while everything seems
calm in the -- in Thailand today, as far as the junta is concerned, beneath the surface, I think there is a lot brewing.
[16:10:08] QUEST: Right. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you for joining us --
YONG: Sure.
QUEST: -- putting that into perspective for us. We'll have more on the situation in Bangkok throughout the course of this hour.
Also tonight, bad weather is hampering the search for the Trigana Air plane which has gone missing in Indonesia, and we'll discuss that Indonesia
apparently has so many deadly plane crashes, what is it about aviation in Indonesia?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Allow me to update you on the top developments on the story from Bangkok. As we mentioned, an explosion has killed at least 18 people
and injured 117.
The police say it was an improvised device weighing three kilograms, which exploded during rush hour at a busy intersection inside a Hindu
shrine that's visited -- popular with tourists. The government says the attack was designed to hurt Thailand's economy and tourism industry.
Now, the search for the missing Indonesian passenger plane is to resume on Tuesday with the weather permitting. The search planes spotted
what looked like debris from an aircraft in a mountainous area in Papua province on Monday.
Thick fog has now forced a ground search to be abandoned. There were 54 people onboard the Trigana Air flight when it lost contact with air
traffic control on Sunday. The authorities in Indonesia say villagers have reported seeing a plane crash in the mountains.
Airlines in Indonesia are expanding rapidly, but he track record of safety shows it to be some of the lowest in the world. CNN's Anna Coren
reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Indonesia's search and rescue officials trying to pinpoint possible debris after a
passenger plane carrying 54 people disappeared Sunday in the remote and mountainous province of Papua.
The crash is Indonesia's third major aviation accident in less than a year. In June, a military transport plane crashed minutes after takeoff in
Medan, killing at least 135 people, 162 died in December last year when an Air Asia Indonesia flight from Surabaya crashed en route to Singapore.
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: The accident rate of Indonesia is just far, far too great. At the rate that they're going, they have a large
accident like this every two to three months, and it's just unacceptable.
COREN: A key challenge is the rapid growth of the country's aviation industry. The number of air passengers is expected to triple in the next
20 years.
COREN (on camera): Experts say Indonesia's government has had trouble keeping pace, leading to an industry with weak oversight and poor
infrastructure. Another major problem: recruiting and training thousands of new pilots.
ANDREW HERDMAN, ASSOCIATION OF ASIA PACIFIC AIRLINES: Well, pilots are trained through a mixture of historically government training course,
but increasingly, private sector flying training schools. Those also need to be regulated to make sure they're carrying out their tasks in accordance
with international standards and that the quality of the pilots that they're producing meets international standards.
COREN (voice-over): The airline at the center of this latest incident, Trigana Air, had a troubling safety record. Blacklisted by the
European Union, Trigana has had 14 incidents since 1992, including four fatal crashes.
[16:15:07] SCHIAVO: Three-fourths of this airline's previous fatal accidents were what's called CFIT, controlled flight into terrain. And
that means the pilots don't have enough training in their landing sequences, and they need more training and more oversight. And that also
means they probably don't have the best radar and aircraft instruments onboard.
COREN: Indonesian authorities have pledged for years to improve the safety and security of the country's aviation system, but with the recent
major crashes, many say that change needs to come faster.
Anna Coren, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Getting air safety standards up to scratch should be a priority, a top one, for Indonesia. IATA expects the country's air travel
market to triple in size by 2034. It'll have around 270 million passengers. New airlines are springing up al the time. These four all
emerged in the past decade.
David Soucie is CNN's safety analyst. He joins us now, live from Denver, Colorado. David, with your safety hat on, please, this airline was
a menace to aviation.
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: That's a great way to put it. And -- but we need to look past the airline. We need to transcend what's
happening with specific airlines and understand, as Anna reported in her report, that the tripling of this travel, it's also tripled in the -- if
you look backwards, it's tripled just within the last four or five years in that time period as well.
So, what's happening is that the culture or the safety culture is not keeping up with what's going on. So, they -- there are individuals who are
doing the best they can, but the problem is is the infrastructure is not there to add inspectors, to do more inspections, to work with IATA to come
up with IOSA operational safety audits and get them up to speed.
They're not responding to these audits. They're getting audited, but they're not responding quickly enough to them. It's a very, very complex
problem.
QUEST: Right. But it's not -- but I mean, if you look at other countries or areas where there has been an expansion -- I think of Europe,
where there was an expansion with the low-cost carriers, Ryanair, EasyJet, Wizz, and all those countries. You have to put money, resources, time, and
effort. And are you saying that is what's not happening in places like Indonesia?
SOUCIE: Well, it's not only about putting the time and resources forward, it's about slowing the growth. And Europe did that. They did
that very well during the certification of new airlines and new air carriers. They had to make sure that the training was right, they had to
make sure that those air carriers had everything in place.
Indonesia's not there. You just showed four new air carriers that were just certified within the last period of time, and that's not the way
to do this. What they need to do is slow that down. It's hard to do, because economically, there's a lot of pressure to get these airlines --
QUEST: Right.
SOUCIE: -- up and running. But that pressure is being reflected in their safety measures.
QUEST: Now, I'm not for a moment suggesting anything unsafe about the airline I'm about to mention. I'm merely using it as an example of growth.
But if we take the Indian low-cost carrier Indigo, which I have flow in several times, they've ordered 250 Airbus A320s in the last few days.
That's an indication of the size and scale of the problem. Now, India may be fine and may be able to keep up, but many other countries simply can't.
SOUCIE: That's exactly right, Richard. But it -- India has a very strong history of safe implementation. They're not the ones to just jump
forward for economic gain and say we're going to do this right and we're going to do it faster and better. They have a good history of that.
In Indonesia, because of the ICAO audit back in May of 2014 indicated they weren't prepared for this kind of growth, and they haven't shown that
they are prepared for this kind of growth yet.
QUEST: Right. But David, to pull it full circle, it -- if you've got to fly to that part of the world, and if you've got to fly on some of those
carriers, you're -- and again, I'm not referring to any particular carrier, but your suggestion is what?
SOUCIE: Well, what we have to do is make sure that people go onto the European Union blacklist basically and look for what carriers -- there are
carriers there that are not blacklisted. There's some that they can find. There are tools available to people to make sure that they're flying on a
legitimate air carrier.
Don't let the cheap airfares in Indonesia put you on the wrong airline, because they will, if that's where you're going. Be sure you
check out the airline first, and decide which airlines are safe for you to fly on, and then make your choice as far as safety among those air
carriers. Because there are air carriers that are not authorized to be flown, and there's a reason for that.
QUEST: David Soucie, thank you, sir. Thank you.
[16:19:55] It was a box that Amazon didn't want opened. It was an expose of a brutal workplace culture that's encouraged and
institutionalized at Amazon headquarters. Now the company is fighting back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Staying on top of our lead story tonight, in the Thai capital, Bangkok, a terrorist attack has left 18 people dead and more than 100
injured. The bomb went off inside a Hindu shrine that's visited by a large number of tourists and worshipers every day --
(COUGHS)
QUEST: -- excuse me. They come to pay their respects and make offerings to the Hindu god of creation. No group has claimed
responsibility for the murders.
Amazon is fighting accusations that its staff are routinely subjected to unreasonable treatment. More than 100 current and former employees
spoke to the "New York Times" for a major expose. It described an environment where it's alleged backstabbing is encouraged, overwork is
expected, and it's all in the service of putting products into our hands that little bit faster.
Now, Amazon is fighting back. In a memo sent to staff, the Amazon boss Jeff Bezos wrote, "The article doesn't describe the Amazon I know or
the caring Amazonians I work with every day. Anyone working in a company that really is like the one described in the "Times" would be crazy to
stay."
Well, let's look at some of the things that they allege, according to the article in the "New York Times," that one of the reasons why the
employees don't stay. These are the top complaints.
And the first one that came up time and again, the "Anytime Feedback took," right out of the Amazon box. It's built into the directory, and it
allows employees to submit complaints to other workers' managers.
Now, Bezos invests in a trial software company, Workday, which makes a similar product. The idea being you put the boot in to one of your
colleagues, supposedly constructive criticism. But according to the "New York Times" article, people are using it in cabals to gang up and get rid
of people.
Because along with the Anytime tool, you have employee stack ranking. Employees are ranked using a quota system, and the low performers are
fired. Microsoft did have such a system, and it abandoned it in 2013.
And then you have out of the box, Amazon's Leadership Principle. The principle is "Have backbone, Disagree, and Commit." In other words, it
rewards staff for tearing apart their colleagues' ideas. It's all about conflict and confrontation, supposedly for the constructive good. Amazon
does admit its workplace culture isn't for everyone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIMISHA SABOO, SENIOR TECHNICAL PROGRAM MANAGER, AMAZON: It's absolutely different working for Amazon as compared to working for another
company. You either fit here or you don't. You love it or you don't. There is no middle ground, really.
But once you get the hang of things, the pace of the company, the level of ownership that you get here, the kind of challenges that you have
here, you cannot just Google something and figure out a solution, really. You're doing things for the first time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, John Mattone advises corporate leaders on how to create and sustain effective leadership cultures. He's also the author of
"Cultural Transformations." He joins me now from Orlando. Sir, good to see you. What do you --
[16:25:00] JOHN MATTONE, AUTHOR, "CULTURAL TRANSFORMATIONS": Thank you, Richard.
QUEST: We are not debating here, sir, just to be clear, I'm not debating with you whether Amazon does these practices, is a good place, or
a bad place to work. We'll leave the "Times" article where it rests. But this --
MATTONE: Sure.
QUEST: -- particular idea, this idea of the culture, with the Anytime feedback tool, the culling from the bottom. What do you make of these as
legitimate practices in employee relations?
MATTONE: Richard, thank you so much for having me. I would say a couple of things. One is, with my book coming out, I've done a great deal
of research on culture and how culture drives operating success.
I would say this, that culture does drive operating success. And we look at the success of Amazon, it's very, very difficult to question the
strong culture that's been literally built by Jeff Bezos.
Now, there are always going to be questions when you look at companies that are outstanding like Amazon, when you start to peer in and look at the
elements of what's driving a strong culture and bad culture.
But really, when you look at it, this is really very consistent with what we saw in GE with Jack Welch. It's also very consistent with what we
saw in Apple with Steve Jobs. Both of those senior executives very, very tough, leaders of courage. And Jeff Bezos --
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Right, but --
MATTONE: Jeff Bezos --
QUEST: But -- OK --
MATTONE: -- would be the same.
QUEST: Right, but, so that's the culture. But is it good employee relations in your view to have a situation where employees tell on each
other through the feedback tool, or the company culls from the bottom from the bottom 10 percent? Basically, a culture of intimidation.
MATTONE: Well, that -- from my understanding, Richard, is not the intent behind those kinds of systems. Those systems are designed to raise
operating success and individual performance. I don't know the specifics as to what's going on in terms of the use or the improper usage of those
tools.
But I do quite a bit of work globally with CEOs, and what I'm seeing at Amazon is really no different than what I'm seeing with other very
successful organizations.
QUEST: So -- well, on that point, finally, how do you, sir, square the circle between the concept of a life-work balance with these Jack
Welch-ian, Jobs-ian, Amazonian environments that are draconian in their work, work, work, work, work, work, work? There is surely a contradiction
in 2015.
MATTONE: One of the things that is true -- and again, Richard, this is global -- there -- it's tough. The business world is tough. And if
you're going to survive in the business world, you've got to be -- really, you've got to bring three -- it's almost like athletics.
You've got to show up every single day. You've got to be agile around learning. You've got to be agile around change. And you've got to be
really agile around people. And you've also got to have incredible guts and courage. I think what we're seeing in Amazon is a culture that
attracts certain people.
QUEST: Right.
MATTONE: And if you're going to be successful, obviously, what you've got to do is, you've got to fit that culture. I think what we're seeing
is, some people simply do not fit that culture --
QUEST: Right.
MATTONE: -- and either they're being forced out, or what would even be better is if they self selected themselves out.
QUEST: That's a polite way of saying bottom quarter, out you go. Thank you, John. John joining us from Orlando tonight, where I'm sure it's
absolutely --
Now, when we come back after the break, I'll give you a full update on the events taking place in Bangkok, where at least 18 people have been
killed in a terrorist attack.
[16:29:21] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:31:039] RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND REPORTER HOST OF "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" SHOW: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's more
"Quest Means Business" in just a moment when we're going to take you inside the blast zone of last week's huge explosion in China where the ashes are
still smoldering.
And the U.S. tax authorities admit a recent data breach was much, much worse than they thought.
Before all of that, this is CNN and on this network the news always comes first.
At least 18 people have been killed and more than 100 others wounded after a bomb exploded in Central Bangkok. The bomb went off during rush
hour at a Hindu shrine which is popular with tourists.
The journalist Steve Herman said it may have been a deliberate attempt to target visitors.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
STEVE HERMAN, BUREAU CHIEF AND CORRESPONDENT, VOICE OF AMERICA: There were six bodies inside that shrine, another body outside the shrine and
body parts strewn all over what had been an extremely busy intersection during rush hour at the time of this blast.
And there was little doubt that this had been a deliberate act but it took a while to get an official on the scene to confirm that it had indeed
been a bomb blast.
And it appears that it was several kilograms of TNT or something similar, obviously intended to kill and maim a significant number of
people, especially tourists.
Because whoever put this device there, would have known that most of the people visiting this very popular little outdoor shrine would've been
tourists.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
QUEST: Clashes between pro-Russian separatists and Ukrainian soldiers are intensifying in Eastern Ukraine. Both sides are reporting casualties.
At least two soldiers and five civilians were killed overnight. Shelling has destroyed dozens of homes.
Turkey's prime minister says his last attempt to form a government has failed. The ruling AKP could not persuade the right Nationalist party to
join in a coalition.
The AKP failed to win a majority of the elections in June. If no government's formed by Sunday, a new vote could be held.
The search for a missing passenger plane in Indonesia's Papua Province is to resume on Tuesday weather permitting. The search plane spotted
debris scattered in a remote mountainous area on Monday. Dense fog made a ground search impossible. Fifty-four people were aboard the Trigana Air
flight when it disappeared on Sunday.
Three hundred migrants have arrived in Sicily after their ship was rescued by the Italian Navy. The bodies of 49 who did not survive the
journey were also brought ashore. It is believed they suffocated in the hull of the wooden fishing boat.
We must return to our top story with no group yet claiming responsibility for a bomb blast at a Hindu shrine in Bangkok. The
explosion killed 18 people, a further 117 were injured. It appears the attackers were targeting tourists and the whole thing was timed to inflict
greatest possible carnage.
Saima Mohsin has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A chaotic scene in Central Bangkok after a bomb ripped through a busy intersection and tourist attraction just
after 7 p.m. local time.
[16:35:10] Video posted to social media appeared to capture the moment the bomb went off.
HERMAN: There was an explosion that was heard throughout Central Bangkok.
MOHSIN: The bomb detonated near the Erawan Shrine, dedicated to a Hindu god popular with locals and tourists.
Journalist Steve Herman was nearby when he heard the blast.
HERMAN: I was in the bureau on the 18th floor and I heard this "boom." I thought it was thunder.
MOHSIN: He describes the bloody aftermath of the bombing, seeing at least six bodies covered with sheets and body parts scattered throughout
the intersection.
While there's been no claim of responsibility so far, Herman says police tell him they believe this was a deliberate act of terror targeting
a major tourist attraction.
HERMAN: Normally this intersection would be extremely crowded with tourists. We're right across the street from two major shopping malls
where thousands and thousands of tourists from all around the world come every day.
MOHSIN: Security remains tight around the blast scene. Police initially feared there was a second bomb in the area although no additional
explosives have been discovered. Saima Mohsin, CNN.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
QUEST: Bobby Ghosh is the managing editor of "Quartz" and CNN's global affairs analyst. Bobby, who did it?
BOBBY GHOSH, MANAGING EDITOR OF "QUARTZ," CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: We can't know. This doesn't fit the pattern, this doesn't show the
fingerprints of any of the most obvious suspects.
Something like this happens and your first tendency is to look for local suspects. So the two groups that people will look at first - there's
a Muslim insurgency in Southern Thailand, it's been violent. But this is not their style. They do not attack tourists. They do not as a rule blow
up innocent civilians.
They have tended to attack military and police targets and have tended to stay in the south. They don't come up north to make mayhem. This is
not their style.
The other group - political dissidents. There's a military rule in Thailand and the military rulers have really suppressed - oppressed and
suppressed - political dissidents. And there's been some violence from them, but it's the violence of the nature of throwing stones and Molotov
cocktails. This is not their style either.
QUEST: Right. I was about to say - obviously from the Shinawattra government and then the national governments and then obviously the
generals taking over the coup. There's been nothing in any of that - there's been argy-bargy and riots on the streets -
GHOSH: Right.
QUEST: But not this sort of terrorist activity.
GHOSH: Not at all. And being nationalists and democrats, this would not be their style in any case and they would not want to hurt Thailand's
economy which is something this will do.
So -
QUEST: Was that the intent here?
GHOSH: It seems - it seems obvious that this was intended to frighten - it was intended to frighten tourists - tourism's a huge part of
Thailand's economy, it's a big part of Bangkok's economy. Tourism had just begun to recover after two years of political turmoil and demonstrations,
some of those demonstrations in that very corner of the city.
So tourism had just begun to recover. This is the worst time for this attack to have taken place.
QUEST: Lone wolf? Or organized attack?
GHOSH: It's unlikely to be a lone wolf. To get your hands on explosives to plan this out, to plot this thing. I suppose it's not
impossible, but it's unlikely.
QUEST: I mean, we're talking about the shrine -
GHOSH: Yes.
QUEST: -- your view is that that - not incidental - but that that's ancillary in the sense of it happened to be there?
GHOSH: I think so. First of all, it's a Hindu shrine. It's a very small shrine. It's actually lovely but very small. I've been there a
couple of times. If you want to hit a religious target in Bangkok, Bangkok is full of beautiful, huge golden Pagodas.
This one - there's no - and there's no real history of violence against Hindus or even against - or resentment between the Buddhists and
the Hindus. This shrine's main purpose I think for whoever did this was that it attracts a lot of tourists.
It is in a very congested part of the city and blowing up an explosive right there means you're going to inflict maximum carnage.
QUEST: OK. It is obviously a very serious attack -
GHOSH: Yes.
QUEST: -- with devastating consequences. But does it portend something else? Is this the start of something bigger do you think or do
we just not know yet?
GHOSH: We can't know yet. Until somebody claims responsibility -
QUEST: And if they don't?
GHOSH: And if they don't then the police have an even greater puzzle on their head and it'll keep tourists away. I think that this is something
that the authorities need to get on top of very quickly.
They need to find out who did this and make a show of identifying them, providing credible evidence and then bringing them to justice because
this will cast a pall over tourism in Thailand and it must too.
If you are somebody who was thinking of getting on a plane and going to Bangkok and enjoying all the cultural activities - the wonderful food,
the great Pagodas and - that this is certainly going to give you pause.
QUEST: Sir, thank you.
GHOSH: Any time.
[16:40:00] QUEST: Now we continue to the other big story of course. People in Tianjin are demanding answers and compensation after last week's
deadly explosion at a chemical warehouse.
As Chinese troops are now searching the area for hazardous chemicals, some locals are saying it's up to the government to buy their homes and to
explain why the warehouses were built so close to the residential areas in the first place.
The explosions left at least 114 people dead. Just look at these pictures. It's just absolutely extraordinary. Even several days on, the
nature of that explosion - the ferocity, the intensity is still alarming.
Seventy people are still missing. CNN's Will Ripley got his closest look yet at the blast site where the smoke is still rising.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm standing on the Binhai Highway overpass and this is the closest that we have been allowed
so far to the blast site itself. And I'll tell you, when you see it in person it really underscores the tremendous magnitude of this disaster.
To see what's left of a hazardous chemical storage warehouse now obliterated. Large shipping containers that would go behind a tractor
trailer, warped and tossed and stacked up like they were toys with black smoke still rising days after the explosions and those huge fireballs that
caused an entire parking lot full of new cars to melt and keep exploding for several days after.
And all of this unfolding right within sight of residential buildings - some of them occupied, some of them under construction. But people were
living close to this facility -- people that were unaware of a long list of toxic chemicals being stored here.
Dangerous chemicals that even the fire fighters didn't know about. When they initially responded to this incident and apparently used water in
their initial response. Water that helped create perhaps the volatile reaction and the explosions that have caused damage that stretched far
beyond this location but out several kilometers into the city.
The environmental impact's still being assessed. There's environmental contamination concerns for residents, there's concerns about
the air quality, the water quality, and there are thousands of people who can't go home who are staying in temporary shelters right now.
And there are also dozens of families who still don't know the fate of their loved ones - -many of them firefighters who came here to try to get
this situation under control only for it to end up like this. China's highest prosecuting authority is promising a full investigation and
criminal charges if necessary as a result of this.
This underscores a bigger issue here in China of industrial accidents and the price that people have paid for this country's explosive growth -
some say putting profits above lives. Will Ripley, CNN Tianjin, China.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
QUEST: A vulnerability that exposed the tax documents of hundreds of thousands of taxpayers. And now the IRS says the reality was even worse
than it first thought. Help.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:06] QUEST: It's "Quest Means Business." Eighteen are dead and 117 are injured after a bomb went off near a busy intersection in downtown
Bangkok. It all happened at 7 o'clock in the evening during the rush hour in the capital.
Oliver Holmes from "The Guardian" was on the scene a few moments after the explosion and he described the chaos.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
OLIVER HOLMES, SOUTH-EAST ASIA CORRESPONDENT FOR "THE GUARDIAN": At a hospital right next to where the bomb detonated but it already seemed to be
full of people and full of ambulances
At the major intersection where the shrine is, I saw glass strewn across the road, possibly 50 meters from where the bomb detonated.
I saw there were hundreds of medics, police, fire brigades and looking at the ground trying to figure out, you know, what exactly had happened and
if there were any wounded still in the area.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
QUEST: And we've just heard all 438 Bangkok city schools are to remain shut on Tuesday.
On Wall Street, shares ended marginally higher. There was a positive housing report which offset a weak report on manufacturing. Just shows you
how the markets are at the moment.
Tesla stock rose nearly 5 percent after analysts at Morgan Stanley strongly raised its forecast for the stock price. The analyst wrote,
"Tesla is uniquely positioned to dominate the auto business." Specifically with technology for the ridesharing and self-driving cars.
In Washington, tax officials say a cyber-breach at the Internal Revenue Service - the IRS - was much worse than previously thought.
Criminals stole the tax forms of 330,000 people - now that's twice as many as it first said.
CNN Money's cybersecurity reporter Jose Pagliery is with me now. What did they do?
JOSE PAGLIERY, CNN MONEY CYBERSECURITY REPORTER: So, all right, they - these were criminals who had acquired a bunch of stolen personal data in
(inaudible).
QUEST: How?
PAGLIERY: You can find this stuff online. People's social security numbers, birthdays, addresses. Every time a company loses their data, --
QUEST: Right.
PAGLIERY: -- criminals in the background are amassing this and you using this to make databases they can tap into.
QUEST: All right.
PAGLIERY: So they take this data, they go to the IRS website and there's this really nifty tool on that website. And they get this "Get
Transcript" tool, they put in the personal data they had stolen and what it spits out are all these tax forms - additional data they can then use.
QUEST: To what purpose?
PAGLIERY: Well, you can file fake tax returns, you can file tax refunds in someone else's name. You can claim $9,000/10,000 in their name.
You can use this to open up lines of credit, open up a bank account, get a credit card in someone else's name. This is very useful information.
QUEST: So here we're not talking espionage - or are we? We're not - or are we just talking good old-fashioned theft, criminal activity?
PAGLIERY: This is just identity theft en masse. That's all this is.
QUEST: Isn't there an inevitability - I've asked you this before and I continue - every time I deal with one of these sort of stories? Isn't
there an inevitability of this sort of stuff as we're just putting more and more stuff online?
PAGLIERY: Well what's interesting here is that the IRS created this tool on their website to make it easier for -
QUEST: Right.
PAGLIERY: -- people like me to go online. Look, I lost my tax form, I want to pick up this old tax form I lost. Let me just put in my name, my
birthday, my social and it'll spit it back out at me.
The problem is we don't match this ease of technology with responsibility, right? So we make things a lot easier but we don't make
other things a lot harder.
QUEST: Right, so I've got 55 different passwords with variations on the theme. I mean, what is the answer to this sort of stuff?
PAGLIERY: It's about making it more - honestly, it's about creating a new way of thinking about identity, OK? So that when we go online, we
don't have an identity that's equally - easily replicated, easily stolen.
QUEST: Do you think the IRS is at fault here?
PAGLIERY: To a certain extent, yes. I mean, the IRS commissioner admitted to us a few months ago that this tool was just too easy to use. And so
the answer now is to make it more difficult, right? But then no one's going to like that either, right? When the go online and they want to pick
up old tax forms, they don't want to answer 100 personal questions, right?
And so it's - the difficulty here is that the easier we make things with technology, the easier it's going to make it for criminals as well.
QUEST: So far, I've had my bank account dealt with hacked, my healthcare - the company has been hacked. But at least three different
stores where I've used credit cards have all admitted to me in the last that they have been hacked.
PAGLIERY: But it's easier for you to open up a bank account, easier for you to check on your bank account, easier for you to spend money.
Look, if it makes it easier for consumers, it makes it easier for criminals.
Companies are having a hard time determining which one's which. That's just a reality of today.
QUEST: It's quite depressing.
PAGLIERY: OK.
QUEST: Thank you very much, sir.
PAGLIERY: You're welcome.
QUEST: Not you - I mean, (inaudible) the situation.
PAGLIERY: (Inaudible).
QUEST: Still to come on "Quest Means Business," an exclusive interview with the billionaire who wants to be the next president of FIFA.
He's not mincing his words about corruption in football. Stay with us for that.
[16:50:00] And before it, a look at "Make, Create, Innovate."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: We're following the latest news from Thailand where 18 people have been murdered after a bomb went off a popular Hindu shrine in Bangkok.
The attack happened during their rush hour, a time seemingly chosen so the explosion would cause the greatest possible suffering.
So far no one's claimed responsibility for the atrocity. We'll update you as we get further developments in the coming hours.
One of the most influential figures in Asian football says he's running for the FIFA presidency. He's the billionaire Chung Mong-Joon and
the former head of the South Korean Football Association. He's also a fierce critic of the FIFA chief Sepp Blatter.
At his bid announcement on Monday, he said absolute power corrupts absolutely. Well, nothing new about that. And he vowed to fix the
scandal-tainted football.
In an exclusive interview, Alex Thomas asked Chung Mong-Joon whether Blatter should keep his post until the election or go now.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
CHUNG MONG-JOON, BILLIONAIRE AND FORMER HEAD OF SOUTH KOREAN FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION: He should have stepped down immediately. E.U. parliament
announced two months ago that he should have stepped down immediately.
We need extraordinary congress or extraordinary exco to choose the interim president who can take care over the business.
ALEX THOMAS, CNN INTERNATIONAL SPORTS CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: What's Sepp Blatter like? You must have met him many times, spent time
with him.
MONG-JOON: (LAUGHTER).
THOMAS: Who is this mystery man and why has he held on to power for so long?
MONG-JOON: He's a very smart person. He can speak five different languages, but I think one of his major problem is he think he's very smart
but he does not know how to respect his own colleagues. That's a big problem.
THOMAS: What sort of FIFA president would Michel Platini be?
MONG-JOON: Well the - you know, Michel Platini was a great football player, he's my good friend. But he's problem is he does not appreciate
the seriousness of the nature of the current crisis.
We talk about FIFA's corruption problem. His reply is he did not know about the corruption. I believe him but that's not good enough for him to
say that.
We all know the personal relationship between Michel Platini and President Blatter. It was like a mentor protege or even father and son.
Now Platini claims President Blatter is his enemy. So it suddenly has become fashionable to become Blatter's enemy, but it's - that's too
convenient.
I don't think it is good for Michel, I don't think it is good for FIFA to see Michel as their next FIFA president. That's the reason why I
decided to run.
THOMAS: Do you think European clubs have too much power?
[16:55:01] MONG-JOON: Whoever becomes next president of FIFA, he can do something more for European football but he should do much more for
Asian and African football. That is my point.
If those major cities in Asia and Africa, they have good football clubs who can compete with European clubs, that's the future for football
and I want to do my best for the realization of that vision.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
QUEST: FIFA president Sepp Blatter has criticized Chung for calling FIFA a corrupt organization and has said his comments were, in his words,
"disturbing."
We'll have a "Profitable Moment" after the break (RINGS BELL).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment." I don't know whether the "New York Times" allegations about Amazon are accurate or not. Jeff Bezos says
he doesn't recognize the company that they described as being some dystopian company that he would work for.
What I do know is that there is an inherent contradiction of course between the needs of business in this new highly-competitive environment,
and on the other hand, this so-called work-life balance that we're all supposed to enjoy.
It all reminds me of the Harvard Law School story - you remember the one. Ladies and gentlemen - when please enter the first year of students.
Ladies and gentlemen, look to your left, look to your right. This time next year, 50 percent of you will not be here.
It's always been that way, it's just that we don't really like to admit it. And that's "Quest Means Business" for tonight. I'm Richard
Quest in New York -- for the time being.
Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, keep your job (RINGS BELL) and I hope it's profitable. I'll see you tomorrow.
END
