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Trump Says He Won't Work with Democrats Until They Stop Investigating Him; Schumer and Pelosi Accuse President Trump of not Cooperating with Them; Six Killed, More Than 200 Wounded in Jakarta Protests. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired May 22, 2019 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Investors are still grumpy over that trade war. It is May, the 22nd, 2019. One of Theresa May's top
Cabinet allies has just quit as the Prime Minister tries to hang on to power. E.U. Commission President, Jean-Claude Juncker telling CNN in an
exclusive, he is a bit fed up with all the Brexit drama; and the U.S. President ditches infrastructure talks for an angry tirade against his
opponents. I am Isa Soares in for Richard Quest, and I too, mean business.
A very good evening to you. A top member of Theresa May's Cabinet has resigned within the past few moments -- a few minutes in fact, saying she
fundamentally opposes the Prime Minister's new Brexit bill.
Andrea Leadsom was the leader of the House whose job is to put Theresa May's mates Brexit bill to Parliament and now, she has quit. It follows
really a day of intense speculation here in London that rebel members of Theresa May's party would force the Prime Minister to resign.
Mrs. May is reportedly set to discuss her future with a powerful 1922 Committee on Friday. Now that is the group of backbench Conservative MPs
which oversees leadership contest within the party.
Earlier, the Prime Minister faced a hostile House of Commons as she defended her plan to hold a fourth vote on her withdrawal bill. This is
what she had to say. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Reject it and all we have before us is division and deadlock. We risk leaving with no deal, something this
House is clearly against. We risk stopping Brexit all together, something the British people -- something the British people would simply not
tolerate. We risk creating further divisions.
We risk creating further divisions as a time when we need to be acting together in the national interest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: What does this all mean? Bianca, joining me now. Bianca, Andrea Leadsom, let's start with that because that just happened in the last few
minutes. What does that mean for Theresa May? It is one resignation, if we continue to see more resignation in the next few days, is she in a
position that she will have to step down earlier than she anticipated?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: She is weaker now than she ever has been. And there have been several instances of these Cabinet meetings then
the Prime Minister makes a big statement and then she faces a series of resignations.
She survived them, but things are different at the moment. You and I both felt that today as the speculation was growing about whether or not she
would actually resign.
Andrea Leadsom is a significant figure. She's a Member of the Cabinet. She's a Brexiteer. She is the leader of the House of Commons. Also
somebody that stood against Theresa May's down to the final two in the last conservative leadership contest.
So the fact that she is resigning is a blow to the government. We would note that the Chancellor, Philip Hammond has just got into Downing Street.
He is going there now. We don't know how this is going to unfold over the next 24 hours.
As it stands, it had looked like the Prime Minister had bought herself a little bit of breathing space for two reasons. She had agreed to meet the
Chair of this influential backbench Committee, which you alluded to, Graham Brady on Friday and have a discussion with him.
I was just speaking with him and he confirmed that. Then we have the European elections in the U.K. tomorrow. So it was considered that if the
Prime Minister could get through this afternoon and this evening, then she would be saved.
So this resignation comes at a moment that journalists and politicians alike we're taking a small sigh of relief thinking that we've got through
the day. And now we're not sure what to expect.
SOARES: As you look at this, as you've been covering this for several years now for us. Do you see now -- of course, we've got European
elections tomorrow, is there -- is the thinking that perhaps they wait until post European elections to then put some pressure on Theresa May to
try and resign?
What -- I mean, does anything change as well by getting her to step down besides giving -- starting the leadership race sooner?
NOBILO: You ask what the thinking is. It is critical not to overstate the extent to which the Conservative Party as a whole has a plan. There is not
a master strategy. There are so many different parts of the party that have their own interest and have their own designs on power and their own
ideas for Brexit.
So just because she is in this incredibly weak position, and just because people want her out, they want her out for different reasons. They want to
replace her with different people. So we -- we are not sure at this point exactly who wants what.
The European elections -- the results of those will be interesting and they will have agency in this process because if the Brexit Party sweeps to the
victory that we expect to around ...
SOARES: The Tories expect her to give her something, haven't they?
NOBILO: ... thirty percent and the Conservative Party has batted but potentially less than 10 percent support in these elections. It will add
another impetus behind the drive to get rid of the Prime Minister and it is different this time because she has already said that she is going to go.
[15:05:13] NOBILO: We didn't have an exact date for departure, but the only reason she said that she was staying in post was to try for a last
chance and attempt to get a Brexit plan through.
We now know it's not possible, and that's what's triggered what we've seen today.
SOARES: And PMQs today, you and I were both listening. Bianca and I sat very close together here in the office and talk about this all the time.
Is that the PMQs, many were asking her to set a date in terms for her departure, but it's clear that it isn't so much about the message. It's
more about the messenger. That has been clear for the last -- especially in the last few days, I know, but particularly today.
So if it's about the messenger, then you think Theresa May is aware about it? She is holding on. She wants to bow out with dignity, this may be the
time to do it. Or do you think she is -- you know, she sees this as duty in many ways?
NOBILO: From people who know the Prime Minister well, who I've spoken to, and I even saw her once or twice back when I worked in politics, she
definitely has a strong sense of duty that's beyond dispute.
But she is equally as strong as her sense of duty is, as blind and deaf as she is to the mood of the party and what's required in order to get
Parliament on side. She really has lost her sense of Parliamentary arithmetic. She hasn't been able to take the temperature of the mood of
the party or the country or Parliament.
She is now in a predicament where it looks as if she will be able to have no legacy when it comes to Brexit because this final attempt to try and
make concessions to both sides, offering Brexiteers some form of concession on the backstop, offering remainers the opportunity to vote on a second
referendum, offering concessions to the DUP and so on. It's ended up isolating all of them because Parliament is still not in the mood to
compromise.
So by walking this tightrope, she has ended up completely alone in this with almost nowhere to go now.
SOARES: Can she salvage the deal at all if she got rid of the second referendum element in that, do you think that's --
NOBILO: Highly unlikely because that is a new element. So when she presented the deal for the first three times, yes, she got a little bit
more support each time. But now, she has added these other concessions which have sent Brexiteer MPs who were trying to be pragmatic run for the
hills.
And you mentioned the issue of the messenger, even those that don't have a personal problem with the Prime Minister, because many do, they feel like
she hasn't been considered a Tory. She hasn't been consultative, and that she needed to be and they don't feel listened to.
But the ones that do, those who regard her with respect, and have an affection for her now have been saying openly to media to colleagues to me
that it's time to go.
SOARES: Has she just -- very quickly -- has she barricaded herself, she's still -- and clearly, she is still seeing other Members of Parliament
within her --
NOBILO: So I was told and it's being reported that she has refused a series of one-on-one meetings. However, as I came to you on set, I
mentioned that Philip Hammond is going down to Downing Street.
The reason why people are mentioning that with a sense of significance is the fact that in the last days of Margaret Thatcher as Prime Minister, she
met for these one-on-one meetings and then had to listen to people present with her with all of the reasons why she couldn't continue as Prime
Minister. And that was something which dealt her Premiership that crushing final blow. And that might be something the Prime Minister's trying to
avoid.
Perhaps that's reading too much into things. This is also a Prime Minister that isn't comfortable in those types of situations. She's not a great
people pleaser and she's not -- her strength is not in the personal aspects of the job. She's always struggled with that.
SOARES: And hence why we have to start reading tea leaves, isn't it? Because we don't really know like you said, they don't really have a
strategy in place. So we're trying to understand the thinking.
NOBILO: Exactly, and then literally, considering making up rules on the fly was discussed today and rewriting the rules of the 22 Committee to see
whether or not they could try and expedite her removal as Prime Minister.
SOARES: The next 24 to 48 hours I think would be critical for Theresa May. I think I've said this before. We've been here before, I know. Bianca
Nobilo, thank you very much.
Now the leader of the opposition says Theresa May has failed to offer a genuine compromise although if she does go one place, it will be missed is
in Brussels. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY CORBYN, BRITISH MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, LABOUR PARTY: No matter what the Prime Minister offers, it's clear no compromise would survive the
upcoming Tory leadership contest.
The multiple leaks reported from the Cabinet yesterday show the Prime Minister couldn't even get the compromise deal she wanted through her own
Cabinet and it's clear that the shrunken offer that emerged satisfied no one, not her own backbenchers, not the DUP. And Mr. Speaker, not the
official opposition either.
JEAN-CLAUDE JUNCKER, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: And I'm saying to myself, this is a woman of courage. This is a woman who knows how to do
things, but she is not able to succeed in doing things like she would like to do things.
No, no, no. I like a very much. She is a tough person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:10:10] SOARES: She's a tough person. Later this hour, we will bring you an exclusive interview with European Commission President, Jean-Claude
Juncker.
Now joining me now Rupa Huq hook who is a Labour MP. Thank you very much for being here on the show. There is so much for us to get through. The
last 24 hours --
RUPA HUQ, BRITISH MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, LABOUR PARTY: By the minute.
SOARES: By the minute. Exactly. We've seen Andrea Leadsom has resigned. Hearing that Philip Hammonds just walked in to 10 Downing Street in the
last few minutes just before we came on air. How do you see the next 24 hours play out? Because it's clear that Theresa May is in a very delicate
position.
HUQ: Yes, I think Theresa May has actually been on life support for quite a long time. And her Cabinet seems to change on a weekly basis as it is, I
mean, the faces who are there now are not the same ones who were there in January, not the same ones who were there you know, even a month ago.
And it feels like her Cabinet at the moment is as -- I mean, we've seen Leadsom has gone in the last half hour. It is a kind of collection of
different leadership bids. And so every time any of them makes a speech, everyone is pouring over there for the significance of their Prime
Ministerial --
SOARES: Position.
HUQ: Yes, they're sort of launched into the fray. And even before the starting gun was fired, they were all on maneuvers. And it's an old song
by Joy Division, she's lost control.
SOARES: And so she, at the moment, she is Prime Minister, she has a new bold Brexit plan, she wants to put -- I know you're rolling your eyes, but
this is what she's calling it. Would you support it? Would you back it?
HUQ: Certainly not. And I think it was very bold of her to bring back essentially the same thing. But with none of the two changes that would
have made it palatable to Labour MPs. Had we had a permanent and full Customs Union and had we had even more importantly, a confirmatory
referendum attached to it.
SOARES: But you're going to have a chance of a second referendum?
HUQ: Well, I mean, that's a chance of a vote.
SOARES: Correct.
HUQ: Does she think we're stupid or something? I had half an hour with Theresa May on April the 4th. So at the very beginning of the cross party
talks in Number 10, and I could sense from her that she wasn't in a mood for budging.
I think her problem is she boxed herself in very early. I think, it was January 2017.
SOARES: Those red lines.
HUQ: Yes, when she set her parameters, and then there's been no room for maneuver.
SOARES: But she said she's made consensus. She said she has done what she can from her side. She is giving -- she is putting on the table the second
potential for a second referendum.
HUQ: I mean, we could have had a vote --
SOARES: A temporary Customs Union, do you think that puts more pressure on Labour to try and meet her half way?
HUQ: I think that she's actually offered nothing new. So we would have been in the two-year transition period with a temporary customs arrangement
anyway. And we wanted to -- I mean, I said to her that I would vote for her deal, which would be a big climb down for me, a big eating of words
because all my election literature said I will never, never -- my seat is 71 percent remain. I'll never support any withdrawal agreement.
But I said I would if it had attached to it a confirmatory referendum, so that is actually on the terms of a deal that we have back in 2016. It was
leave/remain. It was all of --
SOARES: That would very much go against her own party, isn't it? And that's --
HUQ: I mean, the thing is I think that's the kind of midway because you've got people hardening all over the place, you have people who want to leave
actually wanting no deal, which every government assessment has shown for every sector of the economy, and every region of the nation would be
really, really damaging.
We've seen already this week, British Steel has gone. There are many of these --
SOARES: Yes, a story we're covering here on the show. Yes.
HUQ: In Swindon, lots of banks even in London, whole bits of them whole banks moved out. So I mean, people -- that would be really dangerous.
At the same time, people want to revoke. Lots of people where I live, 6 million people remember have signed a petition, not even for confirmatory
vote, but just to completely call the whole thing off. So a midway thing would be to offer a tangible proposal to voters and say, do you want it?
SOARES: Well, clearly, she is not going to go. Clearly, she is not going to change that and she is staying at Downing Street. But let me ask you
very quickly, if she did step down, how does that favor Labour in any way?
HUQ: I mean, we've got these elections tomorrow. It's not a good look to have Cabinet resignations on the eve of elections. I mean, I fear that the
next person will be even worse than --
SOARES: Boris?
HUQ: A lot of these people who are entertaining the idea of no deal really because they're flirting with the Conservative membership. They know that
there is a small rump of members of very hardcore, much to the right of normal people. And I think we've had this absurdly stubborn Prime
Minister, who is victim of her own red lines perhaps to herself, and you know, in some sense, being a bloody difficult woman. That was her strength
that she sticks to her guns, but it becomes a liability after a while and that's what's happened here.
SOARES: Yes, if we do then have a change, if you then have a Brexiteer then Labour's problems become much more.
HUQ: I mean, I feel -- yes, I mean, this whole thing has been an exercise in keeping the Conservative Party together and not looking at what is good
for our country.
SOARES: Rupa Huq, thank you very much for coming in. Thank you. And later in the show, we will hear from the Conservative MP, Alistair Burt who
supports the Prime Minister's deal. We will bring you down in about 20 minutes or so.
[15:15:14] SOARES: Now, it's becoming a tired line, but this is once again supposed to be infrastructure week in Washington. A meeting at the White
House between Donald Trump and Democrats on that subject apparently lasted only five minutes.
The President got upset, then walked outside to a gathering of reporters, you can see there. The placard on his podium wasn't about infrastructure.
In fact, it was about the Mueller investigation. He then launched a combative attack at, let's say, on Democrats and Nancy Pelosi, who had
earlier in the day accused him of a cover up. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I walked into the room, and I told Senator Schumer, Speaker Pelosi, I want to do
infrastructure. I want to do it more than you want to do it. I'd be really, really good at that. That's what I do. But you know what? You
can't do it under these circumstances. So get these phony investigations over with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Now, Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats hustled back to Capitol Hill and responded moments later with this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We had hoped that we could give this President an opportunity to have a signature infrastructure initiative, to create
jobs, to improve the quality of life, to just do so much for our country. I pray for the President of the United States. And I pray for the United
States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Sarah Westwood is in Washington for us this hour. And Sarah, what we saw is a pretty furious, I think it's fair to say President Trump,
basically saying he won't negotiate on anything until the Democrats basically dropped their investigation. What's the likelihood of that
happening?
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Isa, it's not very likely at all. Democrats are in fact doubling down on their strategy of
investigating President Trump. Speaker Pelosi has been resisting calls from within her caucus to start impeachment proceedings, but certainly
there is no end in sight for those congressional investigations.
The White House, at least White House aides had been working on ways to pay for the $2 trillion infrastructure package that Democratic Congressional
leaders and President Trump agreed on late last month. So they fully intended to walk into this meeting and at least go through the motions of
negotiating with Democrats for infrastructure.
But after Nancy Pelosi emerged this morning from that meeting with her Democratic colleagues on the very issue of impeachment and said that the
President had engaged in a cover up that's when the President according to sources, became very angry, decided that he was not going to conduct that
meeting with congressional leaders and instructed aides to prepare for that fiery Rose Garden performance that we witnessed.
And President Trump, in doing so cleared up any confusion about how the White House was going to negotiate with Democrats on issues like
infrastructure, on issues like lowering drug prices, and yet at the same time, stonewall those very same Democrats when they're asking for testimony
and documents.
We now know that the President is not going to do both. He says, he is not going to work with Democrats for the next year and a half, plus, if he is
reelected, more than that until those investigations are over, Isa, and that just isn't looking like a likely possibility.
SOARES: Yes, he is definitely getting legislation -- you know, holding legislation hostage at this point, but you know, his tirade if we can call
it that, Sarah was clearly meant to shame his rivals, to shame the Democrats. But what it also showed and correct me if I'm wrong, is that
these investigations, the subpoenas are clearly getting under his skin.
WESTWOOD: We know that the President is frustrated, particularly at the perception that the Russia investigation isn't a closed book. He has liked
to portray Robert Mueller's final report as a total exoneration of him even though the real story is a lot more complicated. It was not a total
exoneration.
But the President is frustrated that the Russia inquiry or forms of it have continued in Congress when he would like to put the issue behind him and to
hear the President tell it today, his White House has already cooperated with the Special Counsel's investigators, so he doesn't see a need to
cooperate with congressional investigators.
Although we should note that the inquiries of congressional Democrats go far beyond what Mueller looked into. They're looking for the President's
taxes. They're looking at the conduct of other people in the President's orbit and at the issue of obstruction which Mueller explicitly left up to
Congress.
So clearly, though, the President is still frustrated that those probes are ongoing -- Isa.
SOARES: Very much and this was supposed to be infrastructure week and they were supposed to be discussing a bipartisan infrastructure spending
package, something that markers were waiting for. That clearly hasn't happened. God knows when it will happen. Sarah Westwood, thank you very
much for joining us there in Washington.
And coming up next, right here on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. One thing the Brits and Jean-Claude Juncker can agree on, the European Commission Chief
tells CNN he has had enough of the Brexit delay. We will bring you that exclusive interview, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:22:49] SOARES: Welcome back, now, Brexit and nationalism, these two big issues are really dominating the European elections which begin
tomorrow. Turnout is traditionally low, but the stakes are incredibly high.
European parliamentarians have authority over the E.U. laws, its budget as well as oversight over other European institutions. For more of what's at
stake, CNN's Fred Pleitgen sat down with the outgoing head of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker for an exclusive interview.
And Fred, let me start off -- I'll ask about European election in just a second. I want to get your take on the Brexit process or the lack of a
process, as you say, here in the U.K., how frustrated has Europe been by the indecision and the bitter rivalry here in the U.K.?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Isa, the rivalry in the political antics really that they've seen in the U.K. I
spoke to Jean-Claude Juncker exactly about that a little earlier and he said he's absolutely fed up with what's going on. He said the U.K. is
going from one extension to the next.
And essentially he says that the Europeans right now are watching U.K. politics like a sphinx except there are even more riddles and less
knowledge than there would be about this thing. So the Europeans are saying they're absolutely fed up with some of the things they're seeing,
but Jean-Claude Juncker also said he wouldn't mind having a second referendum, even if he's not sure it would bring a different result in the
first one. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUNCKER: I would like to say yes, yes, yes to the idea of having a second referendum, although, I'm not convinced that the result will be totally
different. That's to be seen at the autopsy when it happens, but I mean, we could -- how could I say -- observers in a British Stadium, they have to
decide. It's not up to us to lecture.
I'm a little bit fed up because we are moving from one extension to the next extension and we are imagining the next extension after the next
extension. People are losing patience.
I must liken the British Parliament to an Egyptian Sphinx. An Egyptian Sphinx is an open book by comparison to the British Parliament.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:25:10] PLEIGTEN: So that was John-Claude Juncker talking about some of the sort of antics and the infighting involved, of course, in the Brexit
process, but I think one of the things that he also really wanted to make clear, Isa is how dangerous some of that can be to the world's economy.
And in fact, he said that the current Brexit conundrum was almost as dangerous to the world's economy as a trade war between the U.S. and China.
Let's listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUNCKER: You have to stop this process because it's harming the general atmosphere in Europe, it is harming the growth perspectives worldwide, I
have to say, because we have two problems when it comes to the international economy. The trade dispute between the U.S. and China and we
have this Brexit issue, this is not helping the economic growth worldwide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: So you have Jean-Claude Juncker talking about just how dangerous the whole Brexit problematic is not just here in Europe, but indeed for
markets and economies around the world.
He said that by and large, he is still hopeful that there is not going to be a no deal Brexit, of course, as we know, and as we've been talking
about, Isa, time really is running out the political situation in the U.K. certainly remains very, very difficult -- Isa.
SOARES: Very much so and there's so much. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the interview. There's so much I know you got into and
including the rise of the far right party, European elections, the rise of populism, including Nigel Farage here in the U.K. Fred Pleitgen there with
that exclusive interview. Thank you very much, Fred, good to see you.
Now a Cabinet resignation calls for the Prime Minister to resign. Theresa May appears to be on the brink once again as Fred was saying, we will be
live outside 10 Downing Street in just a moment with Phil Black. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Hello, I'm Isa Soares. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment. When I speak to Victoria Pea who still believes May's plan is the
way to go. And Qualcomm shares take a hit over anti-trust ruling, but before that, the headlines at this hour.
Donald Trump says he won't work with Democrats until they stop investigating him. Mr. Trump went on an extraordinary rant today, calls
for an impeachment probe have gathered steam and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused him of a cover-up. Mr. Trump showed Nancy Pelosi and Senate
Democratic leader Chuck Schumer the door when they went to the White House for an infrastructure meeting.
Schumer called it jaw-dropping, Pelosi said it was very strange. She's praying for the president and the U.S. Those were her words. In
Indonesia, at least six people have been killed and more than 200 are injured in post-election protests. Demonstrators are ignoring President
Joko Widodo message that the military and police will take firm action against what he called rioters.
This follows an official announcement that he had been elected to a second term. Widodo's opponents say he will change -- he will challenge the
results. A federal grand jury in New York has indicted celebrity attorney Michael Avenatti. He's been charged with fraud and aggravated identity
theft for allegedly stealing from his former client Stormy Daniels.
He's also charged with attempting to extort more than $20 million from Nike. And if you're just joining us, it's 8:30 here in London. I want to
return to our top story this hour. A key member of Theresa May's cabinet has resigned in the last 40 minutes or so, saying she fundamentally
opposes the Prime Minister's new Brexit bill.
It follows a day of intense speculation here in London that rebel members of Theresa May's party would force the Prime Minister to resign. CNN's
Phil Black is outside 10 Downing Street for us at this hour. And Phil, we're seeing growing calls for her -- for Prime Minister to resign, with
some even saying -- I'm quoting here, "it's the end of the line."
But when is that moment actually going to come because we've been here before, haven't we?
PHIL BLACK, CNN REPORTER: Haven't we just? We've pondered Theresa May's departure under dramatic circumstances so many times over the last year or
so. Today was another day when a speculation really reached a feverish point, most of it focusing on the possibility of her back bench revolt of
some kind, perhaps one that could actually lead to the Conservative Party even changing party rules so that she could be deposed pretty quickly.
But it seems as we approach the end of the day here, there will not be the change to those party rules according to back benches. So in that sense,
she's received something of a reprieve as she says she continues to push to get her Brexit deal through parliament in a couple of weeks.
But another blow to the Prime Minister. Just in the last hour or so, a member of cabinet, her senior member of the government Andrea Leadsom; the
leader of the house, a potential leadership rival, a known Brexiteer has announced her resignation saying that she simply cannot continue to do her
job because she disagrees so profoundly with the Prime Minister's chosen direction with her latest suggested Brexit compromises to try and get this
withdrawal agreement through parliament.
Now, in and of itself, one senior cabinet minister resigning is a very big deal, but Theresa May has endured many cabinet resignations over Brexit
over some time now, and she has hung on. What we can't be sure of at this stage is whether or not there will be more resignations of a senior level -
- at a senior level in the coming hours or days perhaps, because that is a situation that could indeed make it very difficult for Theresa May to hang
on to power.
It could indeed be a situation where if there were a wave of senior cabinet resignations -- and make no mistake, there are members, back-bench members
of her own party who would very much like to see that happen. That's a situation where Theresa May could be forced into a corner, forced to accept
a situation where she can no longer lead and forced to consider her future as a leader of the party and as Prime Minister. Isa?
SOARES: Yes, one figure I saw could be said as many as 36 MPs that actually quit during her time as Prime Minister. But Phil, I want to bring
you this, "Reuters" is flashing why at the moment, basically saying the Downing Street spokesman says "it's disappointed that Leadsom, Andrea
Leadsom has chosen to resign and the Prime Minister May remains focused on delivering the Brexit people voted for."
Yet, today, Phil, in PMQs, we had so many MPs saying -- asking for her resignation date, but also asking her to pull that vote. Is she really
setting himself up for a huge defeat and huge blow, bigger than the last one potentially?
[15:35:00] BLACK: Potentially, certainly, I mean, you'd have to say the overwhelming reaction to her latest suggested compromise has been, well,
derision, fury, disappointment and that's --
SOARES: Yes --
BLACK: Just from within her own party. In addition to that, you've had these suggestions rejected by leaders of the opposition parties as well.
And remember, these suggested compromises are all very much designed to try and attract opposition support.
This has come about through the realization that Theresa May -- well, that she's finally come through, that she cannot -- has no chance of getting
support from her own party in order to get a deal through. So she's trying to attract support from across the house.
That's where these ideas like a potential Customs Union, a temporary one, that's where that comes from. That's where the notion of perhaps allowing
parliament to vote on the possibility of holding another referendum, that's where that comes from as well, to try and pull away --
SOARES: Yes --
BLACK: Some of that -- some of that field -- pull away votes from people who feel that way on the other side of the house. At this stage, you would
have to say as an objective assessment, she has not achieved anything in terms of attracting that opposition support, but she has only served to
further enrage members of her own party.
SOARES: Yes, enrage and now they're impatient, highly impatient. Phil Black there outside 10 Downing Street. Thanks very much, Phil. Now,
Alistair Burt is a conservative MP who supports the Prime Minister and her new Brexit deal that Phil was talking about.
I spoke to him before the latest resignation from the Conservative Party from Andrea Leadsom. And I asked if a change of leader would bring any
clarity to the Brexit process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALISTAIR BURT, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: Well, yes and no. It will bring no clarity to the process because the arithmetic of the House of Commons
remains the same, whoever leads the Conservative Party and whoever becomes the prime minister.
The relationship with the EU is presumably where it has been because of the negotiations and the positions of 27 other states is not changed because we
change our leader. If the Prime Minister gets a new mandate as obviously a new leader will, then the Prime Minister has got to convince the House of
Commons in a way that Mrs. May wasn't able to do of reaching a compromise.
Now, if colleagues are prepared to do that, things will change, if they're not, there won't in fact, be any further clarity. The truth is my
colleagues who want to leave have got to accept that they have to leave with a deal, and that means that they have to be prepared to compromise.
Everyone needs to be able to take a step to compromise. That's what the Prime Minister Mrs. May was trying to do. If a new leader cannot get the
house to do that, then we will be no further --
SOARES: Yes --
BURT: Forward.
SOARES: As we heard today, there were a lot of MPs who voiced their concern, who sounded -- rang alarm bells, they didn't want to back the
deal, Theresa May's deal. If there were to be a leadership contest, who do you think -- who do you think would do the best job at dealing with Brexit?
Who would have your vote?
BURT: Understandably, I have not decided who I would vote for. I'm not working with a particular team, and I'm waiting to see which of the 147
runners and writers that appear to have come forward. I'm in a minority in the Conservative Party, and that I don't think I should be the next prime
minister, most of my colleagues appear to do so.
It's a fascinating field. I think we will narrow it down, my sense is being honest, I think it is most likely that someone who voted in the
referendum to leave the EU is likely to emerge as the most plausible candidate. And members may be 70 percent of Conservative members in the
country voted to leave and would like to see someone who voted to leave.
And then that individual has got to be able to reach across, has got to be able to demonstrate that the British Conservative Party is not just about
leaving the EU, we'll have to make contact and be part of what I -- we have termed as the one nation sense of conservatives and conservatives and for
all.
If the right individual could do that, then the Conservative Party has got a good opportunity. If it becomes absolutely involved solely over Brexit,
if it becomes a fierce battle over a deal or no deal, leaving with no deal which would damage the economy, then I think the Conservative Party will be
in serious difficulty.
I will make a judgment as who will be best, not for me, and not just for the party, but who will be best for the United Kingdom in an election to
come. And at the moment, that individual is not yet clear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Conservative MP there talking to me earlier. Now, there are new troubles for Huawei. Japan's top mobile carrier KDDI and SoftBank are now
postponing selling the Chinese tech giant's new phones with its chip designer ARM or A-R-M -- is it ARM or A-R-M?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ARM.
SOARES: Thank you, because I've heard both. Has announced it's also suspending business with Huawei. And shares of Chinese surveillance
company Hikvision all following a report it may end up on the U.S. trade blacklist.
[15:40:00] All this comes despite the temporary U.S. reprieve of President Trump's Huawei ban. Samuel Burke is here, thanks for clarifying that
because I've heard both, I wasn't sure who was right there.
Let's talk about Huawei and where we've been because we had yesterday, you and I were talking about this 90-day reprieve and now we're talking about a
different -- a different -- things have definitely changed for Huawei. Companies will be put in quite a pickle, in quite a position.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS & TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: They will be and they've already been put in this pickle. Companies are having to make
decisions and they've started making them in the past 24 hours, and many companies are choosing to walk away from Huawei. Yes, there's this 90-day
reprieve, but that's only for existing devices.
So companies like Google saying we will service your phone at least for now. Other companies saying, well, what's the point? If you don't have
these services, and you see right now up on your screen, if your phone doesn't have something like Google Maps, Gmail or YouTube, even if it
doesn't have those apps on top of that, it won't have the services.
Companies like Uber and Deliveroo depend on those services, your phone is useless, so why are they even going to try. So you've got Vodafone, EE
from Japan to U.K., they're saying walk away.
SOARES: What if I buy a new phone now and what do I do?
BURKE: Well, that's the interesting part, it should work for now because technically it's an existing device that's already --
SOARES: Yes --
BURKE: Been set up, maybe not by you, but the carrier. But that's why these companies like EE and Vodafone don't want to get involved in this
because maybe a few weeks or now, a new --
SOARES: Yes --
BURKE: Device wouldn't be serviceable.
SOARES: Let's talk retaliation because this is clearly heating up the U.S.-China trade war. How could China potentially retaliate if it were to
retaliate?
BURKE: I've been saying for months that Apple is the company with the biggest bull's-eyes on their back.
SOARES: Why?
BURKE: And that's because -- take a look at these numbers --
SOARES: OK --
BURKE: Apple makes a huge amount of revenue from China, 20 percent of their --
SOARES: Wow --
BURKE: Revenue last year came from China. So imagine if somehow the Chinese pulled the plug there which they're not expected to do. There was
a new note out from the UBS analyst today that said that they think that the biggest retaliation that Apple could experience in China is consumer
retaliation.
We've already seen certain quarters where it looks like Chinese consumers are turning to Huawei, that would be natural if the companies are -- your
national brand is under attack. But Americans turned to the Chinese brand and we could see more of that according to these analysts.
SOARES: Right --
BURKE: That's a huge amount of revenue to lose for America's --
SOARES: Thank you, Sam, absolutely --
BURKE: Most valuable company depending on the day.
SOARES: And very quickly, yes or no, and I know it's not a question for a yes or no answer, but are we beginning a digital war battle here?
BURKE: A digital cold war for sure.
SOARES: You definitely think so, OK, Samuel, thank you very much. CNN's Julia Chatterley sat down for an exclusive interview with the president of
the Boston Federal Reserve who weighed in on the current trade situation and how it might affect policy-making. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC ROSENGREN, PRESIDENT, BOSTON FEDERAL RESERVE: We make assumptions about what we think is likely to happen. My own assumption is that both
countries do have an agreement, that over time, they will come together. I don't know when exactly that will be, but my expectation is that it doesn't
have a large impact on my forecast for the economy.
But that could be wrong and if it is wrong, then we'll have to think differently about monetary policy. But both countries do have a strong
incentive to try to get to an agreement, hopefully they are able to do that over the course of this year.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN REPORTER: I mean, right now the rhetoric is flying thick and fast. Do you acknowledge the hope or the expectation of a deal
here could be complacent. Whether it's the Federal Reserve or whether it's financial markets for investors at this moment.
ROSENGREN: So I don't think anybody is complacent. You certainly see fairly large financial market movement when news comes out that people view
was indicating that there may not be an agreement as quickly as others had hoped. So there's a lot of uncertainty and uncertainty is bad for the U.S.
economy as well.
So we have to be concerned that the longer this goes on without some resolution, there are some costs just to having this period of waiting
where we're not sure what the outcome will be.
CHATTERLEY: Do you see the Federal Reserve right now as the biggest risk to the economic outlook.
ROSENGREN: I would certainly say it's one of the biggest risks. Tariffs have potential to slow down the economy very significantly, not only here,
but abroad as well.
CHATTERLEY: What about where we lie now today for the U.S. economy versus where we were at the beginning of the year because there was a real fear
factor into the back end of last year that we were going to see a material slowing. And actually, the data hasn't shown that.
ROSENGREN: You know, the economy is actually in a better place than many people expected we would be at this time. In particular, the first quarter
growth was higher than people were expecting, the rest of the world turned out to be a little stronger than people were expecting both in Europe and
China.
So I think that's a positive sign as well. The consumer confidence seems to have come back and the stock market has recovered substantially even
though it's come down a bit in the last two weeks. It's substantially higher than it was at the end of the fourth quarter.
So all of those are significant signs of a positive outcome for the U.S. economy. And I think if you took tariffs off and didn't have to worry
about tariffs, we'd have a pretty strong underlying economy, and my expectation is, as long as we come up with some kind of an agreement over
the course fo this year, that, that underlying strength in the economy will prevail.
[15:45:00] CHATTERLEY: Is the Fed trapped to some degree? The market believes that the Fed will always have their backs.
ROSENGREN: So we have to think about financial market conditions, but we shouldn't be driven by financial market conditions. So small changes in
the stock market that don't affect inflation or unemployment shouldn't be something that we get particularly concerned about.
If the stock market declines enough that we're worried about consumption and investment going down significantly, then that's a financial market
condition that we should react to, not because the stock price is lower, but because we're worried about the economic outcomes more broadly.
Sometimes, I think the markets forget that our goal is not to set a stock price, it is to get our inflation and unemployment consistent with what our
mandates are by Congress. So that we will react if it's a very negative shock and we should because that's an indication that more than likely the
economy will slow down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Now, Europeans will soon head to the polls happening tomorrow, and my interview with EU Commissioner Vera Jourova who has been leading the
fight against fake news. We'll talk about that after a very short break. You are watching QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back to QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Now, the speculation over the future of Britain's government and Brexit comes ahead of a key
election. Europeans begin voting tomorrow in a four-day poll that will not just set European policy for the next four years.
But could also determine the future of the union itself. Polls show strong gains for U.S. skeptic parties across the bloc. Well, ahead of the
election, the EU Commission doubled-down on its fight against fake news. And listen to how other social media giants, it is better known for going
after. I spoke to EU Commissioner Vera Jourova and asked her how successful the cooperation with Facebook, Google and Twitter among others
of us had been.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VERA JOUROVA, EU COMMISSIONER: Well, they in fact follow the agreement. We had several monitoring rounds where we saw that the number of removed
notified hate messages --
SOARES: Yes --
JOUROVA: Was gradually increasing. At this moment, we are around 80 percent, and I must make clear that I never wanted them to remove 100
percent because the primary principal is the freedom of expression.
[15:50:00] We fully recognize that some of the notifications, some of the references to the concrete cases may not be hate speech which is prohibited
by the law. So we will monitor further what they are doing, and up to now, I have to say that the code of conduct fulfilled its purpose because we
needed to do something immediately.
In 2016, we had a horrible atmosphere in the EU, the level of hatred online was incredibly serious and incredibly high and we had to act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: European Commissioner there speaking to me earlier. Now, a court ruling spells trouble for Qualcomm, we'll have more after the break, we'll
tell you why, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Shares in Qualcomm are tumbling more than 10 percent, almost 11 percent in fact after U.S. federal judge ruled the chipmaker broke
antitrust laws and strangled competition. Paul La Monica has the latest. We can see the shares there down almost 11 percent.
And Paul, how important is this ruling?
PAUL LA MONICA, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: PD is extremely important for Qualcomm because Qualcomm really generates a big chunk of its revenue
from licensing. And then what this ruling says is that Qualcomm is no longer able to collect licensing revenue based on the entire charge of a
smartphone, just a small portion of the chip sets that they actually put into these phones.
So it's a much tinier portion of revenue that they would be eligible to get payments on. And that's why Qualcomm is asking for a stay of this.
They're appealing the case as well, it's clearly bad news for Qualcomm if this were to go through, and you know, I think that's the big reason why
the stock is tumbling more than 10 percent today.
SOARES: And what does this mean, in terms though, for its business model, for Qualcomm's business model. How will it have to shift?
LA MONICA: Yes, Qualcomm would probably need to rely a lot less on royalty payments and more on the sale of actual chips for phones. And it's the
royalty side, the license side, that has made Qualcomm such a major competitor in the chip area and it's you know, why the company has been
doing so well.
[15:55:00] They had a similar agreement with Apple not that long ago which lifted the stock about 35 percent because Apple agreed to start paying a
certain amount of fees to Qualcomm for its chips and to use some of Qualcomm's technology and all of their iPhones.
So that is a big problem for Qualcomm if all of a sudden this ruling means that they no longer will be able to rely on that lucrative revenue stream
from royalties.
SOARES: Right, and I suspect they will fight this to the very end. Paul La Monica there, thank you very much, Paul, good to see you. Now, there
are just moments left to trade on Wall Street. We'll have the final numbers and the closing bell for you right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: We only have a few minutes left of trade on Wall Street. Let's have a look at stocks. We've seen the Dow Jones down only smidget though,
I have to say, three-tenths of a percent down, U.S. stocks right across the board on reports that Washington might expand its trade blacklist of
Chinese companies.
It's something that Samuel and I were discussing throughout the show. Investors really worried that tariff tensions could undercut the U.S.
economy. Another stock we've been looking at is Qualcomm. And just before the break, we showed you how much shares were down almost 11 percent as you
can see there.
A big loser of the day, that's after U.S. federal judge ruled that the chip maker violated anti-trust law. Qualcomm said that it will appeal that.
Now, I want to show you very quickly before we go, the British pound because it's edging ever so slightly lower amid renewed Brexit chaos.
Sterling trading below 1.27 against the dollar, on fresh fears, the U.K. could be lurching towards a messy exit from the EU. As we'll be reporting
it throughout this hour. Theresa May's latest withdrawal ordeal has fallen flat, making the British Prime Minister seem especially one row in the last
hour or so, I should say 15 minutes.
Andrea Leadsom; a member of parliament with the Conservative Party has resigned, and now really all eyes on 10 Downing Street to see whether
Theresa May will also step down. We've been here before, but really her position, many are telling us -- many MPs told me on the show, it's
becoming untenable. We'll keep an eye on the next 24 hours. Of course, European elections are tomorrow.
And that's it for this hour of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, I'm Isa Soares in London, we'll have the news for you after the break. I leave you with the
closing bell on Wall Street. Good night.
(BELL RINGING)
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