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Quest Means Business
Horror In London; Two People Injured In London Bridge Attack Have Died; U.K. Police: Two Victims of London Terror Attack have Died; Iraqi Prime Minister to Step Down Amid Protests; Trump Announced Peace Talks During Afghanistan Trip. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 29, 2019 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:09]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Good evening. I am Richard Quest. Tonight, horror in London. A knife attacker who went on the rampage and
the video that we're showing you is disturbing. Police have declared it a terror incident.
The location: London Bridge, the scene of a terror attack back in 2017. And today, officers shot and killed a suspect who they say stabbed several
people whilst wearing a hoax explosive device.
We aren't showing you the moment that the suspect was shot of course. This is the scene right before and eyewitnesses say people wrestled the suspect
to the ground and disarmed him of what you'll see is an extremely vicious looking knife.
The police then ran over with guns and pulled the civilians off the suspect before shooting and which is what you're seeing there.
Nick Paton Walsh is with me from near London Bridge this evening. Two developments tonight. Firstly, we know that the Prime Minister has made a
statement and COBRA, the emergency Cabinet Committee will be meeting and also tonight, we are waiting for further details of the suspect. What more
can you tell us?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Richard, we have a sort of different view here of London Bridge which when Boris
Johnson says that as far as they know they believe the situation is over. You get a feeling of that frankly from what we can see here.
Now, our cameraman is going to zoom in on what we think is the tent put up by police over the scene of where that graphic video you just saw was in
fact filmed and the bridge is full frankly, of busses clearly stopped by police as they saw this incident finally getting underway.
But this is a London really getting back as much as it can in the areas around where the attack occurred to normal. This all began Richard, at the
premises the police say they haven't identified exactly where it was, it was most likely on that side of the bridge before two o'clock or so.
It was then police were called to somewhere and then the incident appears to have moved there in that area on the bridge on the other side over there
where you saw that graphic video.
London Mayor, Sadiq Khan along with Boris Johnson praising the very best of humanity to quote the London mayor of the ordinary Londoners who saw this
getting underway and seem to have thrown themselves at that assailant. One man seem taking the very long blade away from the scene, and another man it
seems trying to restrain or at least engaged in exchanging blows with the assailant, taken away by the police before they opened fire.
It does appear that they believe the attacker was wearing a vest to some degree, possibly a suicide vest, an explosive device. The police now say
they believe that was a hoax. But of course in the heat of that moment the police would have felt most likely, the lethal force was the only option
they had to prevent the attacker from detonating that and perhaps causing yet more loss of life.
But several people have been stabbed. It is unclear how seriously injured these people are at this point. And as you say, the British government are
now working its standard response sadly to instance like this.
The terror threat had been slightly lowered in the past weeks, perhaps not really a reflection of a relaxed posture by British police. But perhaps
the sad reality that for an individual like this, it's unclear what his motivation besides to make an attack like this often there may be mental
health issues involved here as well as radical ideology -- Richard.
QUEST: I mean that's the point. We don't know and one of our experts in the last couple of hours was suggesting that the -- well, it was Pauline
Neville-Jones -- Lady Neville? Jones that these days, more and more of the individuals are working on their own, because they know the ability of
tracking through communications is much better than before. Thereby, the possibility of getting caught before they're able to wreak havoc?
WALSH: Well, yes and also, too, if you look at the techniques, the weapons used here, it seems by this assailant and we don't know his motivation. We
say from police, this is terror related, treated as a terror offense. We don't know what ideology if any was fueling this attack.
It seems to have simply been some wires made to look like an explosive vest and a big knife. Now, there's nothing you can stop anybody from laying
hands on those. There are limitations, age-wise in terms of knife purchasing here in London because of gang culture and violence, but you
can't really stop one sick individual, whatever motivation they have, whatever ideology they want to twist towards justifying their means.
You can't stop one individual from deciding to do something like this. Now, we don't know if this person acted entirely on their own, but this is
essentially the challenge going forward.
[15:05:00]
WALSH: ISIS or whatever group may have been behind this, the territory they used to operate from, degraded. Their leadership dead to some
degrees, and so when one individual possibly, as I say, with mental health issues, that's increasingly what security personnel talk about in instances
like this, it's very hard to know exactly what you can do to stop them -- Richard.
QUEST: Nick, thank you. Nick Paton Walsh who is just by London Bridge. So to the actual events of what happened and get a firsthand account, Lloyd
Griffiths was there as the police arrived on the scene.
He captured the footage of passersby tackling the man carrying a knife. Before that man was shot dead by police. He spoke to us earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LLOYD GRIFFITHS, WITNESS TO LONDON BRIDGE INCIDENT (via phone): When I realized something was happening, I kind of looked up for my phone and it
looked like members of the public were fighting with a man that was trying -- it looked like he was trying to pin down onto the pavement on the left
hand side of the pavement on London Bridge.
At that moment, I kind of saw like -- it looked like a shine of light come across from the man on the floor. And I realized quickly it was a knife
like the sun was shining on the knife. It was a relatively large knife.
At that point, I thought maybe it was something quite serious that was going on there. And very quickly, there was at least one member of the
public who went out of their cars to help. And then the police went over with some guns and it ended with a man being shot.
ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: So it was your understanding as you were recording that it was a police officer who fired that shot?
GRIFFITHS: Yes, definitely. Yes.
CABRERA: How quickly did the police respond to this incident?
GRIFFITHS: Within seconds. They were very, very fast.
CABRERA: And that was even before --
GRIFFITHS: Sorry?
CABRERA: That was before you started recording?
GRIFFITHS: The police weren't there when I first started recording, but from my first -- I think it was maybe, I think maybe 20 seconds later. So
this was all under a minute. I would say they were very quick and very swift and thank goodness for the police in London.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: And before we go on, I do want to clarify one point. You'll have noticed in the videos that we're showing you, quite often, the faces are
blurred of some of the people involved. And there's good reason for that.
We don't know who they are and we don't know the role in which they played. And if they turn out to be as indeed, the person running away with a knife,
good Samaritans, those members of the public doing their duties as they see it. Well, the last thing we want them to be doing is broadcasting faces
around the world when they don't -- they may not wish their privacy to be breached in such a way. So that's why --
And then of course there are the police themselves, many of the police officers, in this case are special forces, anti-terrorism,
counterterrorism, and it makes little sense of broadcasting their faces so that anybody who is a ne'er-do-well gets an idea of who's who in the world
of the British forces. So there are valid reasons. We're not just being nice to all when we decide to blur the faces. It is done in the best
practices as recommended.
Now, the past several minutes. We've received word of a separate stabbing attack. This in the Netherlands. The Hague. Dutch Police say this attack
happened on a street lined with shops in The Hague, several people were wounded.
We absolutely know nothing more about it at the moment, the motive the perpetrator, the conditions of the victims. The details will dribble out
in the hour ahead and when we get them, we'll bring them to you.
Give us moment as we turn to Will Geddes, the Managing Director at International Corporate Protection. He joins me now from London. Let's
start first with this particular incident, the London incident.
The reality is that is -- the reality is it was a man with a knife. But at the time, it looked as if it could be much, much more serious.
WILL GEDDES, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL CORPORATE PROTECTION: Yes, no, absolutely, Richard, but it is this very low-tech approach, which is
almost as concerning. It is as simple as getting one's hands on daily implements or daily accessible implements, like a knife, going into a
crowded place, as we may be seeing developing over in the Netherlands, as you say, and causing mayhem and then adding into them, albeit hoax IED bomb
belts, this can cause even greater terror, obviously, in the local populace.
So it's highly effective, even if it's not a big spectacular as we used to see back in the days of al Qaeda.
QUEST: And we're hearing about the Netherlands. We know nothing about the Netherlands so far, it could just be a random stabbing. There are plenty
of those in Europe at the moment. What's your fear, though? Is there a fear of coming along, that we may be in the midst of some coordinated
attacks are not?
GEDDES: Well, my speculation and this is purely my speculation, Richard is that we could be seeing more of these low-level, lone actor attacks.
[15:10:10]
GEDDES: I mean, the biggest concern is to see what they call a marauding terrorist threat, as we saw back in 2017, on the same location in London
Bridge in the Borough Market where the perpetrators will move from one location to another, making it incredibly difficult for the authorities and
emergency services to react appropriately.
But this is all very much in the wake of the decimation of Islamic State in its biggest sense in Southern Syria and Iraq, and they did make warnings
that they were going to carry out these kinds of attacks across Europe.
QUEST: Right. So with that in mind, I mean, there's an element of terror, of course, and a possibility now and an element of, of risk and danger.
Somebody with a knife can do a lot of damage.
But in terms of the global terror perspective, I mean, it's a far cry from this from some of the al Qaeda and ISIS operations. What do they hope to
gain by a lone person that goes on a rampage?
GEDDES: Well, to be honest, what they're trying to do is just reinforce their presence, if anything else. I mean, again, we need to keep this in
perspective, as you rightly say, Richard.
I mean, the chances of being caught up in a terrorist event is still thankfully, very, very scarce. And you're more likely to be a victim of
standard indigenous criminality than you are of a terrorist attack.
But it is just a reinforcement that they are a presence to be reckoned with, that they can strike as the unlikeliest times and with spontaneity,
as we saw today, but also bearing in mind that the security services over here in the United Kingdom --
QUEST: Right, Will, let me interrupt you. Let me interrupt you if I may to thank you, first of all. Will Geddes. We have just learned that now
two people have been killed in that attack on London Bridge.
There have been suggestions of this for an hour or two, but now it's been confirmed. Nina dos Santos is near the scene. To clarify, Nina, this is
two people besides the suspect.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN EUROPE EDITOR: That's right. That's what we understand, Richard. The Press Association, as you said, citing Whitehall,
basically government sources saying that two civilians they believe have lost their lives tragically in this attack. That comes in addition to the
suspect who was gunned down as you've been discussing, after police believe that he was wearing a suicide vest and after he had attacked a number of
people with a knife.
So now it appears as though two of those victims who had been attacked with that blade have tragically lost their lives according to the Press
Association.
It is not the first time that London Bridge has been the scene of people losing their lives either on London Bridge or in the streets nearby after
the 2017 attacks here -- Richard.
QUEST: Okay, but do we know where those two people were murdered? I mean, was it on the -- well, it doesn't look like it was on the bridge, because
we can't really see anybody else there. So this must have been when the incident started, which was just off the bridge of which we know very
little about at the moment.
DOS SANTOS: Well, at this point, this is just conjecture, Richard and the latest statement that we've heard from the Metropolitan Police is the one
that we've been airing where they started out by saying that they were called to an incident at the premises in the vicinity of London Bridge, one
of the busiest stations in London, close to a big market. It's a big tourist area.
It's also a place where there a lot of office blocks behind as well. So all sorts of reasons for this area to be frequented by all sorts of people.
And they were called to an incident at around about 2:00 p.m. and then from there things unfolded with of course, that fatal discharge of shots by
those specialist members of the City of London Police.
So we don't know exactly where these people who sustained these fatal injuries sustained them. Obviously, that will be part of the
investigation. We also don't know who the assailant is. We don't know the identities of the victims either thus far -- Richard.
What I can tell you at the moment is that obviously government sources will be talking about this at a COBRA meeting in a few hours' time from now.
QUEST: And related to this, I'm seeing that the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Cressida Dick is to give an update outside Scotland Yard, 3:15
Eastern, 8:15, so that could be anytime now.
Of course, we don't know if she is going to be on time. What are we expecting to hear? And I'll apologize in advance, Nina, if I need to
interrupt you to go to it. But tell me what we think we're going to hear.
DOS SANTOS: Of course, well, the types of lines of investigation that they'll be looking at will be the same ones that they looked at in 2017
when London Bridge was subject to another series of even more fatal attacks with three assailants there, and Westminster Bridge attacks that took place
just a couple of months before that also in 2017 that left several people dead, and also saw the perpetrator being killed on the spot as well.
[15:15:16]
DOS SANTOS: We will be looking at the identities of the assailant. They will be looking at their social media profiles, finding out who they're in
contact with, any kind of idea to give an idea of what the motivation was. And also looking into as Nick mentioned before, on this very show, whether
or not mental health may have played a role in this.
Whether this individual was acting in concert with other people, whether they traveled to any of the countries that could give us a sense -- this
might be the granular detail.
QUEST: All right, thank you. Let's go to new Scotland Yard.
CRESSIDA DICK, COMMISSIONER, LONDON METROPOLITAN POLICE: We are deeply saddened and angered that our city of London has again being targeted by
terrorism. It is with the heaviest of hearts to inform you that as well as the suspect who was shot dead by police, two of those injured in this
attack at the London Bridge area have tragically lost their lives.
My heart goes out to their loved ones and to the three further injured victims who I understand are being treated in hospital. And of course, to
everybody who has been affected by today's terrible and mindless attack.
The attack started at Fishmongers' Hall in the City of London. My understanding is that police were called at 1358. Two minutes to two. And
City of London police officers had bravely and professionally confronted the suspect by 1403 just five minutes later.
If you are concerned about anyone who was there today, please try to contact them, and if you cannot, then get in touch with us.
I want to thank all the emergency service personnel who are currently working tirelessly to deal with this incident, particularly the police
officers from the Met and the city who have worked so closely together to protect the public.
I also want to thank the members of the public who have helped either by showing extraordinary courage and stepping in to tackle this attacker, or
indeed, by following the instructions they've subsequently been given by officers at the scene and in the area.
This support from our public assists us much more than you could know.
In the coming days, you will see more police, both armed and unarmed, patrolling our streets to help reassure those who are understandably
concerned.
Similarly, our counterterrorism detectives will be working around the clock to identify those who have lost their lives, to support all the victims and
their families.
We are also working at full tilt to understand exactly what has happened and whether anyone else was involved.
For this reason, we expect cordons to remain in place around the London Bridge area for some time.
This afternoon I met with the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary and also had a meeting with the Mayor. I'm very grateful for all their
support. Indeed, we have been working closely with governments at every level, and as closely with our partners across London. This will obviously
continue in the coming days.
This joint efforts mustn't stop with the authorities. As you know, we are treating this as a terrorist incident. Fighting terrorism takes effort and
determination from all of us.
If you have any information or indeed any concerns, please do contact us.
The empty ideology of terror offers nothing but hatred and today, I urge everyone to reject that. Ours is a great city because we embrace each
other's differences.
[15:20:10]
DICK: We must emerge stronger still from this tragedy. In doing that, we will ensure that the very few who seek to divide us will never, ever
succeed.
Thank you very much. I'm happy to take a couple of questions.
QUESTION: Commissioner, do you think that this very early stage, the assailant was in any way known to the police?
DICK: This is a very fast moving, dynamic investigation. We will keep you updated as we learn things. I can't comment on that at the moment.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).
DICK: Again, a very fast moving inquiry. That's obviously a very important line of investigation for us. Was this person involved with
anybody else? If so, who? And of course, we will be working to minimize any threat there may be out there.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).
DICK: I'm afraid I can't. That would be a lead for the hospitals and indeed the LAS.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).
DICK: I can't at the moment. I'm not prepared to do that. Of course, it's an absolute priority for us to identify who they are and make sure
that their families are informed. So I'm not going to say anything more, I'm afraid about the two people who have sadly died.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).
DICK: I absolutely cannot confirm anything at all further at this stage, but rest assured, we will tell you as soon as we reasonably can, what we
know about these people, but of course you would understand our priority is first of all, to make a categorical identification, and secondly, to ensure
that their families are informed as swiftly and as properly as we can. Well, last one.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).
DICK: I'm so sorry, I couldn't actually hear the question.
QUESTION: Are you seeking to talk to any (INAUDIBLE).
DICK: So I think we have -- we've already put out an appeal. I would repeat that appeal that anybody who is in the area, anybody who has, for
example, any video footage, they think maybe may be relevant. Anybody who saw anything at that time, we would want to hear from them.
We will be working as fast as we can to understand who this man is, where he comes from, and whether there is anybody else that we need to find
quickly, who might be in touch with him. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you.
QUEST: The Head of London police, the Metropolitan Police, the Commissioner there, Cressida Dick, giving not a huge amount of information,
but more than we had so far.
We now know that the attack started at Fishmongers' Hall, which is a large building next to London Bridge, an old liver building. Two people are now
known to have died. We neither know the gender, nor who they were. They are -- as the Commissioner said -- they are working to identify.
What is interesting, Nic Robertson, who is with me -- what is interesting, especially, is as the Commissioner said, there's only five minutes between
the first call to the police at 1358 and them being on the scene and involved in a confrontation at 1403. And that not only includes the
Metropolitan Police, but also the City Police, Nic Robertson.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. And she praised them for working well together. And I think that's also significant.
Look, you would expect the Chief Police Officer to praise her officers. But I think by any measure in London, any of us that know the traffic in
London will understand that five minutes for that number of officers, armed officers, some of them to get on the scene -- that's fast. That's
significant.
I was struck by, you know, by the fact that you just mentioned there that they're still trying to identify who these victims are. And then when she
said -- this struck me as terribly difficult for some families, right now - - she said, if you haven't heard from your loved ones, please try to contact them now. And if you don't hear nothing, then contact us.
I mean, I think that does give you the real understanding there how this is going to play out.
QUEST: And Nic, more police armed and unarmed on the streets, counterterrorism working around the clock. And she said, working at full
tilt to use the Commissioner's words to identify those involved.
[15:25:03]
ROBERTSON: This is, again, this is what we would expect. This is what we've heard after other incidents like this, but clearly that is still not
ruling out whether or not this person or whether who this person is, where they came from, and are they connected to other people.
And I think this will be really resonating very strongly for the police in London right now, particularly when, you know, Europe at the moment is
itself wondering, could there be more? Could there be more such attacks in capitals in the run up to Christmas? And obviously, a view will be taken
on that about what's happening in The Hague tonight.
QUEST: And Nic Robertson, who is in Washington, we will be talking to you more about this in a moment.
The thing that the Commissioner did put out, as Nic was saying, the extraordinary acts of bravery by members of the public, which the
Commissioner said was more important than most people realize and was crucial to their abilities to protect.
And the British Prime Minister also says, he can't thank the public enough. Boris Johnson's response is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Two people have now been confirmed dead after a terror attack on London Bridge. These are how the day's events unfolded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Earlier today, I heard a couple of gunshots and I heard 10 or seven and then I saw some people running away from the busses.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keep it a little bit swiftly. Please clear the area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A rush of people running into the cafe and the manager ran and shut the door and locked it. Everybody basically dove
under the tables and we were told that shots were heard.
And then at some point where we saw police coming to the bridge.
INCOMPREHENSIBLE CONVERSATION.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like members of the public fighting with a man that was trying -- it looked like he was trying to be pinned down. I kind
of saw like, like a -- it looked like a shine of light come across from the man on the floor and I realized quickly it was a knife.
INCOMPREHENSIBLE CONVERSATION.
[Gunshots]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then the police went over with some guns and it ended with the man being shot.
[15:30:00]
NEIL BASU, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER, METROPOLITAN POLICE: I'm now in a position to confirm that it has been declared a terrorist incident.
MAYOR SADIQ KHAN, LONDON, ENGLAND: We'll also like to thank members of the public who risked their own safety this afternoon. They are the best of
us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: This is CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest, we'll return to London in just a moment to bring you the latest on the London bridge terror attack, as we continue
the news headlines on CNN.
A few moments ago, London police said two people are now known to have died and been murdered in the London bridge stabbing attack. The police shot
and killed the suspect. They're calling it a terrorist incident, and are looking into whether anyone else was involved.
The U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has called an emergency security meeting at the cabinet in response to the attack. Iraq's Prime Minister
Adil Abdul-Mahdi says he will submit his resignation to parliament. It follows deadly protests across Iraq over the past two months. Nearly 400
people have been killed and thousands injured since the protests began.
Demonstrators are calling for an end to the government corruption, and the Iranian intervention in the country's affairs. The Taliban confirms they
are ready to return to the negotiating table with the U.S., and possibly hammer out an end to the longest U.S. war. The Taliban's spokesman says if
the U.S. wants, the talks can resume where they left off.
President Trump announced the talks during a surprise visit to Afghanistan, though an official later clarified the U.S. is in the process of restarting
those talks. In Hong Kong, police have handed back control of the polytechnic university to its officials. The university says it hopes it
can get back on schedule as early as next semester.
Now, you'll recall the campus was the site of days of violent protests, officers said they found nearly 4,000 Molotov cocktails there.
[15:35:00]
A breaking news tonight, two people murdered in that attack on London bridge, and the opposition Labor Party says it has suspended election
campaigning in London tonight. The election is less than two weeks away. Now, you can't divorce the fact that there's a general election pending
with what's taken place.
The way in which the government responds will indeed become part of the election narrative. The British Prime Minister Boris Johnson returned to
Downing Street from his constituency in Greater London as soon as the news broke. And of course, he expressed his support for the emergency services.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, PRIME MINSTER, UNITED KINGDOM: The police can confirm that this is a terrorist incident and clearly, my thoughts -- first my -- first,
with the emergency services, with the police, the bravery that they showed in going towards danger as they do. I also want to pay tribute to the
extraordinary bravery of those members of the public who physically intervened to protect the lives of others.
And for me, they represent the very best of our country and I thank them on behalf of all of our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The Prime Minister Boris Johnson -- Scott McLean is in London live for us tonight. Where exactly are you, so we can get perspective of the
position, the situation tonight?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Richard, so, we're actually just a couple of blocks from London Bridge. The cordon here has shrunk
significantly over the last couple of hours. The London Bridge is about a block that way, and maybe another block or two to the right. You cannot
get close to it at this stage, and police have just said not long ago that it will remain closed for quite some time.
The headlines at this hour is that the Prime Minister, the mayor will be meeting with British security services and other relevant agencies, to make
some decisions as to how to go forward. And also obviously, the two of the three people that police say were stabbed and taken to the hospital have
now died.
Now bystanders caught the ending or what seems like the ending of this incident on London Bridge on cellphone video, and it shows some pretty
dramatic scenes. The Prime Minister, the mayor keep referring to these acts of bravery. And you can see why in these videos, members of the
public are wrestling with someone who looks to be the suspect.
QUEST: Right --
MCLEAN: And from one angle, you can actually see someone emerge from that scrum with a knife, Richard, and then you see everyone backed out from that
person, and then you hear police fire --
QUEST: Right --
MCLEAN: A couple of shots. Now, according to a source with knowledge of the situation, a law enforcement source, police decided to fire those shots
because they could see wires and tapes -- and tape around that person's mid-section. It terms out that was a hoax explosive device. It brings
back though painful memories of the 2017 London Bridge attack when eight people were killed in that case, those three terrorists also were wearing
fake explosive devices. Richard?
QUEST: All right, thank you, Scott in London tonight. And it's also in the British government. Well, Sajjan Gohel; International Security
director at the Asia-Pacific Foundation, he joins me. Good opportunity for us to go through a little bit more of what president -- the commissioner
said.
Talking about the "working full tilt to identify those involved and calling it a terrorist incident." When they say terrorist incident, what do they
mean? I mean, you know, strictly speaking, any incident is a terror and it puts terror, but what do they mean here?
SAJJAN GOHEL, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY DIRECTOR, ASIA-PACIFIC FOUNDATION: Well, I think they believe that there was an ideological motivation. That
this individual was drawn to a particular doctrine. Whether it was transnational or whether it was domestic, the police will identify that in
a short space of time.
But they do believe that this has similarities to previous terrorist attacks. There are eerie similarities to the previous London Bridge attack
that your correspondent was mentioning. And unfortunately, we've seen another type of tactic of death by cop, where you have an individual using
a knife, stabbing his way, plowing his way, what they call anger mass(ph) attack if this was an ISIS operation and then dying in hail of bullets, as
we saw --
QUEST: Yes --
GOHEL: Graphically in the video footage that is now going viral.
QUEST: The way forward to actually apprehend or well, before we apprehend, to discover who else might be involved. How difficult will that be?
GOHEL: The counterterrorism command of SO-15, the Metropolitan police will take the lead now in this investigation.
[15:40:00]
They have some of the best officers in the world when it comes to investigating terrorism. They piece together the London Bridge attack back
--
QUEST: Right --
GOHEL: In 2017, along with the Westminster Bridge attack, the Manchester bombing. So, they will react very quickly, and I wouldn't be surprised
that they already have a clear fix on who this individual is, and potentially who he has been talking to online using encrypted messaging and
on the dark web.
QUEST: Yes, we were sort of saying in the office before we came on air, you know, from experience of these things, the next thing we invariably
start seeing is reports of raids in some parts of suburban England or in other parts of the country. And that's usually the first indication, isn't
it, of the direction? Because they're unlikely to say much more publicly. Are they?
GOHEL: Well, the police here operate differently to other countries. They tend to use the opportunity of the investigation to keep their cards to
themselves. They don't really divulge too much to the public, to the media until they have actually put together the complete picture as to this
individual, his connections, physical and virtue.
Was he known to the intelligence community? In the past, many people come up on the radar because they've issued --
QUEST: Right --
GOHEL: A message online, social media platforms. But there's not enough evidence to formally charge them --
QUEST: Right --
GOHEL: Or is this person traveling abroad?
QUEST: Yes --
GOHEL: Has he been operating online?
QUEST: Right, stay with me for one second because I want to update on the situation on the Netherlands where Dutch police say three people have been
injured in a stabbing incident in The Hague, now, this attack happened on a street lined with shops. These are some of the first pictures that we now
have from the scene where the police say they don't know anything about the motive, and they're appealing to the public for help.
Now, this is, Sajjan, this is obviously we know even less about The Hague than we do about London where we at least have now got this terror motive
or this terror incident. But what would you -- where would you caution us not to go with this Hague one and the London one in conflating them
together?
GOHEL: Well, it's disturbing that you've had two incidents on the same day. But at the moment, we could say that, that is coincident, that
they're not necessarily directly connected what will be important if we look at the Dutch case, is for their own intelligence agency, the AIVD to
conduct its investigations to see who this individual was, what the motivation was.
The Hague is the political capital of the Netherlands -- was there an ideological connection? Was this someone who had --
QUEST: Yes --
GOHEL: Mental health issues. What we do need to remember though, Richard, is the period of these incidents taking place. It's the build-up to
Christmas. We've seen attacks take place in the past, we're in the build- up to Christmas today, it was Black Friday in London, busy shopping day.
QUEST: Sure --
GOHEL: The individual in London deliberately timed it in many ways to probably inflict maximum casualties. And we also need to remember that
just because terrorist groups like ISIS may have had the operational space confined and limited in places like in Iraq and Syria, their ideology still
operates.
So, if this individual is tied to a transnational group, it shows that the poisonous doctrine and ideology can still infect --
QUEST: All right --
GOHEL: Impressionable minds globally.
QUEST: Good point, thank you, sir. As we continue, Iraqis are celebrating, they have been protesting for two months, and now the Prime
Minister has announced he will step aside. In a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:45:00]
QUEST: Iraq's Prime Minister is to resign after two months of protests. More than 300 people have been killed in the demonstrations, and thousands
injured. Protesters have been concerned about economic conditions and government corruption. Arwa Damon is in Baghdad. So, the Prime Minister
goes, but it is only effective in that sense if there's somebody who is going to take the job that everybody has a better hope will be less corrupt
in the first place.
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's very true, Richard, and actually we've been talking to a number of the demonstrators
about just that. Who is this person who they actually think can lead Iraq to become this nation that they also desperately crave? One that is fair,
one that respects its citizens, one that is free of corruption, of unemployment.
One that can actually fix the electricity, and what they all say is that, what they're actually hoping to achieve is not just a change in government
per se. But it's an entire revamping of the country's political system. They say that they don't want to actually see the same political leaders in
power once again.
They don't want a system that is based on these sectarian, divisive political parties. They really want to -- at least, this is what they're
aiming for, is a government that is truly ruling for the people and operating for the people. And the other significant factor that they want
to change when it comes to the way that Iraqi dynamics actually function is Iran's influence.
You very rarely in the past would hear anyone who would dare openly criticize Iran's role in Iraq, and now you hear it --
QUEST: Right --
DAMON: Just about everywhere.
QUEST: Right --
DAMON: In Baghdad and in the country's predominantly Shia south. They want to end that influence and other influences as well.
QUEST: Right, so tell me, how do -- thread that needle to get from the goals, the desires to the execution and reality? Because without -- you
know, maybe, I'm being mealy-mouthed here after the riot people on the streets for democracy. But if it's not just to dwindle into another --
into nothing, there has to be a path through which it can succeed.
And that, Richard is really going to be the challenge because it's not actually about threading the needle at this stage. They still need to find
the needle and create and build that thread. This is a country that has been destroyed. You first have the dictator of Saddam Hussein and the
U.S.-led invasion, the sectarian violence, the wars against ISIS.
So, it's a country whose people have been through all of that, who are basically taking to the streets, saying, we are done! We are finished! And
it's the country's youth that are at the forefront of this. But these demonstrations don't really have a single leader who is guiding them. And
so, moving ahead, when you ask them what kind of a political entity are you looking for, they say look, we don't want any political parties, we want to
be able to vote for an individual.
This country has people who are qualified, but they just haven't yet been given a chance. So, the exact mechanisms of how they want to bring about
this drastic and dramatic change, those are yet to be determined. And given what we know about Iraq's history, the unfortunate reality is that,
this upcoming resignation of the Prime Minister is as they themselves are saying, just a first step. But they are --
QUEST: Right --
DAMON: But they are a long way off from really seeing this turn into the kind of country they all are craving and dreaming of.
QUEST: Arwa, thank you, putting it beautifully into perspective for us tonight.
[15:50:00]
In a moment, we'll be back in London to hear from a witness who was nearby when the incident occurred.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: We now know two people were murdered after being stabbed in London. The suspect was shot dead by the police at the scene. The authorities say
they're treating the attack as a terrorist incident. The suspect had a hoax explosive device strapped to him.
The pictures that you're looking for are -- Einar Orn was in the area and took this video on his phone. He joins me now from our London bureau. So,
what did you see when you were there? How terrifying was it there?
EINAR ORN, LONDON BRIDGE ATTACK WITNESS: Do you know what? It was very terrifying. Simply because going -- because I went out on lunch. I went
to the cafe and just seeing and hearing two gunshots is obviously very worrying. And then after that, I looked away and then looked back and
there was loads of police cars and another set of shots fired away.
And you really question yourself when you're -- when you're looking at it, like what was that? Was it a gunshot, was it a firework? And you know, you
question yourself, and that's what really --
QUEST: Right --
ORN: Was the mood.
QUEST: And what was the mood of the people around you? I mean, because obviously, there's an element of media panic. But what do you do?
ORN: I don't know, like it's difficult. I want to say to stay calm, but I think you can't really, can you?
QUEST: No, that's the point, you can't. So what did you do?
ORN: Well, the thing is, I was in that building, so I couldn't do anything because the building was under lockdown --
QUEST: Right --
ORN: And I had to just stay in the building and working together, about you know, staying calm and just waiting for everything -- you know, waiting
for answers and waiting to see what happened next.
QUEST: We now know that two people were murdered, they were killed. The three -- two of the three people who were stabbed, two of them have now
died. And that the suspect of course, was shot because the police believed -- well, the police say he had on him a fake bomb vest which makes the
whole thing even more terrifying, doesn't it?
ORN: It really does, and it really like makes me worried when you know, when you go out in the streets, you know, you're going to have this kind of
--you know, maybe questions yourself like you know, what if he's got that on him, you know, just -- you know, you really hope -- well, I'm really an
over thinker and it really worries me --
[15:55:00]
QUEST: Oh, I think -- I think we'll forgive you over-thinking this one. I mean, it's -- this sounds like you were all involved and caught up,
obviously, I know the area extremely well. You were all caught up in a very nasty incident. Well, some people took refuge under tables and things
like that, didn't they?
ORN: Yes, I mean I was upstairs in the office and I had loads of people telling me that, you know, there was either in a restaurant nearby or there
was an apartment nearby, and just to have that thought that it was literally closer than I was is shocking. It's terrifying.
QUEST: Thank you for joining us this evening. A terrifying incident, but it's 9:00 at night there, and so it's probably still -- there's still a
chance to have a last drink and soothe the nerves. Before --
ORN: I think, yes --
QUEST: Absolutely, no one would blame you. Thank you for joining us, sir.
ORN: I hope not.
QUEST: We'll be back with more in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: So, two people died in today's London Bridge stabbing attack. I say died -- let's call it what it was, they were murdered today by an
attacker with a knife who himself was shot dead by police. And there's a sickening familiarity to the way it all folded -- unfolded. If you look at
the pictures, the police were called to a stabbing, near London Bridge at around 2:00 p.m., and suddenly the bridge and the area around it were in
lockdown.
The video of the eye witnesses shows the moment the suspect was apprehended. We're not showing the suspect's face or those around his
face. We don't know who they are, we don't know the role they played. It would be deeply unfair to do so. But the point to make tonight I think is
this -- we are 13 days away from a general election in the United Kingdom.
We are 26 days away from Christmas. And once again, the specter of terror hits into the heart of one of the largest, busiest, most interesting
capital cities of the world into London. But people will go about their business, and in fact, they'll do more than that because so far, the story
of today is the way ordinary men and women who got stuck in went into the fight as passer-bys, they became involved to try and put this thing right.
That's the story of what happened, and now, of course, everybody wants to make sure it doesn't happen.
