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Quest Means Business
W.H.O. Says U.S. Has Potential To Be Next Epicenter Of Coronavirus Pandemic; Interview With Joe Biden About Coronavirus Pandemic; U.S. Stocks Heading For A Record Breaking Session; IMF Warns Global Recession Could Be Worse Than 2008 Crisis; Outbreak Triggers Record Collapse In E.U. Business Activity; Senate Close To Deal On $2 Trillion Stimulus Package; Nobu Parent Group Shutters New York Locations; First Human Trial of Coronavirus Vaccine Underway in U.S. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired March 24, 2020 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:16]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: ... coverage continues now with Jake Tapper.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.
In just minutes, I'm going to speak with Democratic presidential candidate former Vice President Joe Biden about the coronavirus pandemic and his bid
to try to replace President Trump, as the World Health Organization issues a scary warning today, now saying that the United States has the potential
to be the next epicenter of the pandemic.
The numbers reflect the horrific situation, the death toll in the United States now a shocking 646, meaning, in just the last 24 hours, since I was
on air last, more than 100 people, 146 more people, have died from the coronavirus.
I want to take just a second here to think about that, so it's not just a number to you or to me; 646, each one of those numbers, someone's son or
daughter, someone's mother or father, their brother or sister.
Whether young or old, there are oceans of pain and suffering surrounding each addition to this grim toll.
A week ago, there were just over 6,000 confirmed cases. Now, we have crossed the threshold of 50,000, and the calls for supplies from doctors
and nurses on the front lines are getting even more dire. The messages from the White House on forcing industry to manufacture these needed supplies
continue to be somewhat contradictory and confusing.
But, today, the head of F.E.M.A. told CNN that his team is using the Defense Production Act for the first time to secure more testing kits.
New York Governor Andrew Cuomo ripped apart the response from the Federal government this afternoon, arguing in a scathing news conference that he
thinks it's inexplicable that the Federal government has not yet helped his state get more ventilators.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): F.E.M.A. says, we're sending 400 ventilators. Really? What am I going to -- what am I going to do with 400 ventilators,
when I need 30,000? You pick the 26,000 people who are going to die because you only sent 400 ventilators.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Governor Cuomo says cases in that state are doubling every three days, doubling every three days. And the Governor of New York is predicting
that the peak of the crisis in his state could still be up to three weeks away.
Meanwhile, from President Trump, more questions about his leadership. The President, of course, spent weeks belittling the threat of the virus and
promising that everything was under control, which it obviously was not.
Top health officials were, however, overjoyed last week when President Trump finally began acknowledging the gravity of the lethal pandemic. They
are not as happy today, because the President, encouraged by his economic advisers and people on Twitter, said he wants the nation, "opened up and
raring" to go by Easter.
That's less than three weeks from today. And that's a date that top health officials do not think will be sufficient to control and contain the
coronavirus.
Democratic and Republican senators this afternoon urging President Trump to heed the advice of top health officials.
Among those who do not support ripping off the Band-Aid and just telling everybody to go back to work anytime soon is Dr. Anthony Fauci, who said
this just Friday:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I don't think, with any moral conscience, you could say, why
don't we just let it rip and happen and let X-percent of the people die? I don't understand that reasoning at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Even one of the top Republicans in the House, Congresswoman Liz Cheney of Wyoming, tweeted today, "There will be no normally functioning
economy if our hospitals are overwhelmed and thousands of Americans of all ages, including our doctors and nurses, lay dying because we have failed to
do what's necessary to stop the virus."
CNN's Kaitlan Collins is live for us at the White House.
Kaitlan, can you walk us through what the White House is thinking in terms of telling everybody to go back to work by Easter?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, they had this meeting with the Coronavirus Taskforce on Sunday, and that was when the
President made pretty clear he wants to lift these guidelines starting next week, when they expire.
Now, what that's going to look like is the question here, because the health experts have warned, if you send too many people back to work or too
many people start going to events, the number of cases in the U.S. is going to spike.
So what they are trying to do right now is come up with a compromise to present to the President, one that they hope will reopen the economy,
restart the economy, but also that can keep Americans safe and not get too many people sick by spiking the number here.
So they're considering a phase, potentially, maybe sending people who are younger than 40 back to work, and then gradually returning people who are
older than that back to work.
They're also considering lifting the Federal guidelines, but telling people to follow what their state officials are telling them.
They're also talking about maybe restricting vulnerable people from still going out into society as much, things like keeping nursing homes without
visitors.
Things of that nature are all on the table right now, as they're trying to find this compromise with the President, though we should note nothing has
been set in stone.
[15:05:10]
COLLINS: And, Jake, I do want to note, they're also trying to figure out if they can get data on just how effective the measures over the last week
have been, and maybe that could change the President's mind on this.
TAPPER: And, Kaitlan, there's a lot of pushback to this, including from top health officials.
We even saw some public pushback from Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who generally is very supportive of the President. Are there other allies
of the President publicly expressing the concerns that top health and medical officials have?
COLLINS: Yes, it's not just Liz Cheney. It's also Lindsey Graham, Joni Ernst, Deb Fischer, all these lawmakers who are urging the President,
listen to the medical experts when you're making these decisions.
Follow the C.D.C. guidelines, things of that nature, instead of solely focusing on the advice of his economic advisers, which he's been doing so
far, though, Jake, we should note, yesterday, when I asked the President, are you going to follow the advice that the health experts give you next
week, when you're making a decision about easing these guidelines?
He only said he's going to listen to them, but he said he's going to listen to other people, too -- Jake.
TAPPER: Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thank you so much.
Joining me now from his new home studio in Wilmington, Delaware, the former Vice President of the United States, the current Democratic frontrunner for
the presidential nomination, Joe Biden.
Vice President Biden, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate it.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, thank you, Jake.
TAPPER: So, President Trump said today he would like to reopen the country by Easter. What's your response?
BIDEN: He should stop talking and start listening to the medical experts.
You talk about having an economic crisis. You want an economic crisis, watch this spike. Watch the number of dead go up. Watch the number of
people who, in fact, connect with this virus. When are you able to open the economy?
Look, we all want the economy to open as rapidly as possible. The way to do that is, let's take care of the medical side of this immediately.
One of the things -- he's not responsible for the coronavirus, but he's responsible for the delay in taking the actions that needed to be taken as
far back as January.
And I just -- I find it incredible. Listen to Dr. Fauci. He has been there since Reagan, all the way through. He worked with our administration. He's
a serious, serious player. What is going on with this man?
TAPPER: Mr. Vice President, if you were President right now -- there is a big debate about whether or not President Trump should be using the full
weight and force of the Defense Production Act to basically compel American industries to manufacture all these medical supplies that are not yet
available -- ventilators, masks, other PPE, protective gear, for doctors and nurses.
If you were President, would you have enacted that? What would you be demanding of industry?
BIDEN: I would have enacted it a long time ago, Jake. I think it was three -- two, three weeks ago that the President should enact this. He -- it
should have been enacted months ago.
This is a position where we know what is coming. All you've got to do is look around the world. Every morning, I'm on the phone for about an hour-
and-a-half with all the health experts on my committee or the people working with me. They have been pointing out -- I wish I had the graphs
with me.
You see them. The spike in U.S. cases are going like this. It has now surpassed what it would be, if we continue on this path, what happened in
Italy.
Look, this is ridiculous. Make the change. Like the governor said, Governor Cuomo, what is he going to do with several hundred or several thousand? He
needs a great deal more. The whole country needs them. And let's move now.
And industry is prepared to do it. What is he waiting for? He says he is a wartime President. Well, God, act like one. Move, fast.
TAPPER: The President had a Town Hall of some sort on his favorite channel earlier today.
He mentioned you. I wanted to play that for you and get your reaction.
BIDEN: Okay.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I made a decision to close off to China. That was weeks early.
And, honestly, I took a lot of heat. Sleepy Joe Biden said, it is xenophobic. I don't know if he knows what that means, but that's okay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Your response, sir?
BIDEN: What a piece of work. What a piece of work.
You may recall early on, I said what we should be doing is sending our experts to China to look inside, not just take their word. We had a person
in China that worked for the administration. I think he got fired or got brought home.
What is he doing? What is he doing? He started off, you go back and look at his comments about China is doing the right thing, China is doing the great
thing, China is right along, China is this, China is that.
TAPPER: Yes.
BIDEN: I mean, come on. This is bizarre.
TAPPER: So, you know that it is not just President Trump. There are other people who are concerned about the economy. I assume you're concerned about
the economy as well.
BIDEN: I am very much concerned about the economy.
TAPPER: And there are people who think, well, maybe there does need to be some sort of balance, some sort of reasonable balance, regulated and
suggested and guided, I guess is the right word, by health officials.
[15:10:09]
BIDEN: Yes.
TAPPER: Dr. Birx, who you know -- she was in charge of the PEPFAR program, now helping to lead the Coronavirus Taskforce.
BIDEN: Yes.
TAPPER: She said today that they want to be, "laser- focused" in dealing with the pandemic, and are considering regional responses, which could
allow some to go back to work. Is that an approach that you would consider?
BIDEN: I'd like to know what the scientific facts are. But, yes, it is possible.
I don't want to slow the economy. I would like everybody to be back to work. But let's be reasonable here. Let's look at what has happened in
other countries. Look what happened when we have social distancing.
You know, you have said it 50 times on the air, Jake, you've got to -- that curve, you've got to flatten that curve. This is how it's going up, more
and more and more and more people getting the coronavirus, more people dying. You have got to flatten it.
Now, there are places in the country where I could see it makes sense to be able to go back to work to deal with certain issues, to certain notions.
But the idea that we are in a position where we're saying that, by -- what did he say? By Easter, he wants to have everybody going back to work? I
mean, what is he talking about? He started off misrepresenting the problem.
All of the way back in January 17th, I wrote a piece for "U.S. News & World Report" saying, we have got a real problem. At present, we have --
coronavirus is real. We have so start acting now.
I wasn't unique in that. The Intelligence Community had already come forward and said it. He paid no attention.
Again, the virus is not his fault, but the way in which he has been so slow in responding in what needs to be done, what was already in place, is
astonishing.
TAPPER: You said your -- one of the biggest concerns is all the misinformation out there, which seem to be aimed at President Trump in some
ways. Do you think -- you literally think he should stop talking about the coronavirus?
BIDEN: I think he should listen to the scientific experts. Listen to them. Listen to Dr. Fauci.
He's not a scientist. Let the scientists speak. Let them lay out the facts as they know them. Let's lay out what has happened in other countries as we
know it.
This is not unique to the United States of America. He should be listening to the experts. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be talking to his economic -
- every single day, Jake, I start off with an hour-and- a-half briefing with the scientists on my -- that I put together, the team of scientists.
And then I have an hour-and-a-half briefing from my economic people, the economists who are working with me.
They both have to be considered. They both have to be looked at to see what we have to do.
And, look, the ways to deal with that -- if he wants to make sure that the economy doesn't collapse, well, let's make sure we get aid immediately,
now, now, to all of the people who are working people who are getting laid off, who are losing their time, who can't pay their rent, who are not able
to keep their mortgage. These are people that need help immediately, immediately.
TAPPER: Mr. Vice President--
BIDEN: And we -- corporations are going to need help, too, but we have to set conditions about which they are able to use that money for; $500
billion and a blank check doesn't work.
But $500 billion accountability, you pay it back, you cannot raise your salary of the CEOs, you cannot buy back stock, you have to be accountable,
you have to keep people on the payroll, that's a totally different thing.
That's another way to keep the economy up and going enough so that when this -- when we're through this, we are not losing a step to make the kind
of progress we have to make.
TAPPER: Mr. Vice President, if it is okay, I'm going to squeeze in a quick break. I want to still talk to you, continue our conversation, if that's
okay.
BIDEN: Sure. Thank you.
TAPPER: Okay, we're going to squeeze in a quick break.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:18:07]
TAPPER: And we're back with 2020 Democratic presidential candidate, former Vice President Joe Biden, discussing the coronavirus pandemic. Mr. Vice
President, thanks for sticking with us.
BIDEN: Thank you.
TAPPER: To state the obvious, older people are more adversely affected by the coronavirus than younger people.
You're 77 years old. How have you been adjusting to the threat from this virus? What have you been doing to keep yourself safe?
BIDEN: Well, I have been following the recommendations of our governor. And I have been staying in place, not going out, not gathering at events.
And the good news is that, thank God, at least what I have been told by the docs, that I have no underlying condition that would complicate my
circumstance.
But, look, it's about keeping -- like, for example, I -- we're told that we shouldn't be around our young grandchildren. So, my -- Beau's children, my
deceased son's children, live about a mile as the crow flies from us.
And every day, they walk over through the woods and through a neighborhood, and they sit out in the backyard, and we sit in the porch. And I bribe them
with ice cream. But we talk about the day, and we hang out.
And -- but we -- I'm not able to go down and hug them and kiss them, which I usually do. I'm just following the instructions that -- and anybody who
walks into the house from the Secret Service on, they're wearing masks and gloves.
So, we're just taking the precautions that we're told are the responsible things to do in terms of keeping our distance.
TAPPER: Have you been tested for the coronavirus?
BIDEN: No, I have not been tested for the coronavirus. I have had, thank God, no symptoms that I'm aware of. It doesn't mean that that can't happen.
But I have not been tested.
TAPPER: I want to ask you about your presidential campaign and your rival, Senator Bernie Sanders.
Sanders is ramping up for the next round of Primary, including in the state of New York. The math is tough for him.
[15:20:03]
TAPPER: What do you think about him continuing his campaign, continuing to compete in primaries?
BIDEN: Well, I think that is his decision. And I have been asked that question, as you recall, about all of the other folks who were in the
Primary before, all of whom have dropped out, I think, with one exception, they have formally endorsed me. That is a decision for them to make, not
for me to make.
TAPPER: You have said that you're going to pick a woman as your vice presidential nominee. You made that announcement during the CNN debate.
BIDEN: Yes.
TAPPER: Have you have had conversations with any specific potential vice president as of yet about the job?
BIDEN: No, I have not. I am putting together a team of people to do background checks and a committee that will oversee the process, and
because, realistically, if the July 15th is still the time for the nomination or convention, we're going to be in a position where you have to
get these under way and the background checks started relatively soon, sometime in April.
TAPPER: Given the corona--
BIDEN: I have not, though -- I--
TAPPER: Yes.
BIDEN: I have not talked to any individual. Excuse me.
TAPPER: You know, you're supposed to cough into your elbow. I don't know, sir -- I learned that actually covering your White House, that --
BIDEN: That's -- no, actually, that is true. But, fortunately, I'm alone in my home. But that's okay.
TAPPER: All right.
BIDEN: I agree. You're right. Excuse me.
TAPPER: You should just -- it's kind of old-school to do it with your hand. Do it into your elbow. You're supposed to do it.
BIDEN: Thank you.
TAPPER: Let me ask you. Given the coronavirus pandemic, do you think the Democratic National Committee should call off the planned in-person
Democratic Convention this summer?
BIDEN: No, I don't think so. I think we ought to be able to conduct our democratic processes, as well as deal with this issue. But, look, that
decision will be made as the state of the nation at the moment.
But I don't think it should be called off. And I don't think we should call off any of the elections. I think we just have to move forward. We may have
to use different means and methods.
There is an awful lot of direct-mail voting now going on, which may be one of the answers. But I think it depends on the circumstances that exist.
But we can't -- in the middle of the Civil War, we had an election. In a virus in the 1900s, we had -- in the teens, we had the election. In the
middle of World War II, we had an election. We can't let the democratic process be interrupted by the process of dealing with this virus. We can do
both.
TAPPER: Do you know anybody with the virus? Have you talked to anybody who is suffering from this?
BIDEN: No, I haven't. I have -- well, I shouldn't say that. On the telephone, I have talked to people suffering from the virus or have loved
ones who are suffering.
My friend, Amy Klobuchar's husband contracted the virus. I have been talking to her. There's others who I know of, but I have not in person
spoke with anybody who has the virus.
TAPPER: Lastly, sir, what is your message to the American people during this time? Because it is obviously very difficult. A lot of people are very
scared. A lot of people are sick. A lot of people have loved ones who are sick.
What -- you want to be the next President of the United States. What is your message to all these frightened Americans?
BIDEN: My message is, we will overcome this. Look, the American people are incredible. I talked about -- early on in this campaign, unrelated to this
virus, about the soul of America. Well, we're now seeing the soul of America. Look what is happening.
Look what is happening all own the country. People are pulling together. They're helping one another. They're doing what needs to be done to prevent
the spread. They're stepping up. They're making sacrifices.
They're looking out for one another. Across the board -- this is -- I'm so darn proud to be an American. And it sounds like hyperbole, but it is true.
Look at what we have done.
The American people have never, ever, ever, ever let their county down when given an opportunity to respond. And we just have to level with them.
They're tough. They're smart. They can handle it.
But give them the facts. The only thing that's going to make things worse, if we, in fact, don't give them the facts, and then things turn out to be
bad. Then who do they believe? What is there to believe?
They can handle whatever comes their way.
And my heart goes out to all those folks you just announced, as you said. I wrote it down, and I got the brief this morning, an additional number of
cases and the number of deaths.
My God. Having -- losing a child or a wife or a husband, it's -- I have been there. It is really, really, really tough.
But they will get through it. And I just -- I just -- we just have to be supportive. We have to be supportive.
And one of the things we can be supportive of is on the economic side to make sure that they are not going without the economic means that are
necessary to keep their households moving.
TAPPER: Vice President Biden, thank you so much for your time. Please stay healthy. Really appreciate it.
BIDEN: You too, Jake. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
TAPPER: Coming up next, New York's governor says his state --
[15:25:00]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: And there, we will leave -- breakaway from Jake. In a moment, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS back
in New York, where stocks are heading for a record breaking session.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Good evening to you. Investors are cheering lawmakers on towards an agreement on a stimulus package. According to the top negotiators, a deal
will be done and it is only hours not days away.
And as a result, if you look at the market, you're seeing exactly that, and it's the second best point gain in history, all measured against a variety
of pluses, of course over the week and dire health warnings.
What's interesting about this rally is that it started in the morning, and it hasn't -- I mean, the market opened higher and it hasn't looked back.
Julia is with me. They are obviously getting what they want, having had the Fed yesterday, it gives them what they want. But will it be enough?
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: It's a great question, Richard, and it depends how they use it. Remember, we're talking about a $2
trillion stimulus package. You and I have been debating back and forth.
If we look at some of the programs being done around the world, that notional amount is just not big enough, particularly if you talk about
shutting down the U.S. economy, a $20 trillion plus economy for two to three months.
However, the suggestion is that they could be quite clever with some of the lending programs. They could leverage them, i.e. borrow against the pot of
money. Then you could be seeing a gigantic lending program, and then we could be seeing something bigger.
So it's going to be very interesting to see the details as always, of this program if and when they agree it.
QUEST: Julia, thank you. We will watch that as we head towards the close.
We are just 30 minutes now away from it. I appreciate it. Thank you.
Now, widespread lockdowns in Europe are taking a heavy economic toll.
[15:30:00]
The Composite PMI is a measure of business activity has crashed to 31.4, the lowest reading since the index began. The PMI is always a difficult
number, to begin with, but not that bad leaves in no one in any doubt. IHS says the collapse is worse than during the financial crisis. Gita Gopinath
is the Chief Economist at the IMF. She joins me now. Good to see you, Gita. As always, thank you. That number, that PMI number, I mean, it's always a
bit of an unreliable one. But it's the first bit of hard evidence if you like, economic data of an important nature that we're getting that shows
how bad this will be.
GITA GOPINATH, CHIEF ECONOMIST, IMF: Richard, I think the first bit of bad data that we got was in China, where we saw what happened to industrial
production and retail and sales. What we're seeing in terms of PMI is coming out more recently are in line with those. That's, I think, what we
would expect when the global economy goes into shutdown in different parts of the world, and that's what we are seeing. So, these are very large
effects, historically, lows in terms of impact on services sector. And this is what -- the reason why, you know, it's quite clear that the global
economy is going towards growth below zero in 2020.
QUEST: The IMF yesterday's statement following the Feynman's (ph) G20 was quite clear, the managing director. This is worse -- this slowdown and what
the consequences will be worse than the great financial crisis.
GOPINATH: The, you know, like I said, we are talking about growth in the negative territory, it could absolutely be worse than the global financial
crises. We -- at this point, we are only seeing the start of the epidemic in several emerging markets and developing economies in low-income
countries. So, this is -- we are at the start of what it looks like a period, at least a few months, where we are going to see these kinds of
really dramatic collapses in activity taking place in different parts of the world.
Now, if these containment measures work, and we see, you know, some, you know, holding back of the number of cases, and if there are advances in the
medical side, that provide more effective treatments, that mind with what is a very extensive set of measures being put in both in monetary policy
and fiscal policy around the world, and what is even being anticipated at this point coming out to the U.S., those should lead to a recovery in 2021.
QUEST: On that point because it's a crucial one, is there a -- I mean, there is a difference, isn't there and to some extent, between an economy
that is artificially brought to a close, and an economy, which slows down and goes into recession, through cyclical forces, now it will feel the
same. I'm not trying to suggest that one is better than the other, but at least with the -- with the first one, you are able to restart it. And I
mean, there'll be a huge amount of damage thereafter, but you can at least restart the economy.
GOPINATH: Well, we certainly in this case, know exactly why these numbers are coming in as badly as they are. It is because countries are choosing
appropriately to put in containment measures to have social distancing, and to basically stop people from going to work. And so, this is what you would
expect to see. So in that sense, yes, we know what it would take to improve things. Once we do one -- once we have a better handle of what's happening
with this -- with the virus and its spread.
QUEST: The measures that you've seen and heard about so far, whether it's the 2 trillion from the Fed, whether it's the Bank of England, the
Treasury, the ECB, all of them, and are you encouraged -- you're encouraged, obviously, that they're doing it. But do you -- do you sort of
warn that more will be required?
GOPINATH: They're taking some very large measures, and if you look at what the U.S. Fed has done recently, this is -- you know, especially compared to
the global financial crisis, they've moved much more faster, and the measures are much more, you know, are much larger. So, these are big
measures what we're seeing in the Euro area, what we're seeing in many other countries in the world, it is the case. I think what we need to think
about now is the rest of the emerging market and developing world and the low-income world, where the fiscal space they have is not the same as what
it is in advanced economies and similarly with the monetary measures that they can put in place. So, for them, I think there will -- there will be a
need for the international community to play a much bigger role.
[15:35:08]
QUEST: Good to see you. Thank you, Gita. I appreciate you joining us and bringing us up to date. Thank you.
GOPINATH: Bye, Richard.
QUEST: While we were -- while we were talking there, the market did go up. We're now over 10 percent up on the day, which is the best of the day so
far, 25 minutes to go. And if you thought there might be selling going on towards the close, it's quite the opposite. As the Senate closes in on a
stimulus deal, airlines around the world are warning, they stand to lose $250 billion. The head of AITA is with me, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: U.S. Senators say a massive stimulus package is imminent, 2 trillion. That's enough to spark a gain of 10 percent on the Dow, just give
or take. The House Speaker Nancy Pelosi tells CNN that the deal was closed, and all signs are pointing to lawmakers passing this relief bill before the
day is out. This will include direct payments to taxpayers after Democrats repeatedly blocked the plan from going any further. There were concerns it
favored business over workers. The rescue package could include around $40 billion to keep the struggling airline industry afloat. The global airline
stand to lose less more than $250 billion in revenue according to the IATA, the International Air Transport Association.
The head of IATA, Alexandre de Juniac is in Geneva, and joins me now on the phone. And, sir, the situation is much worse than the last time we spoke.
Airlines are effectively -- they are grounding the whole fleet. And in some cases, they've actually shut shop and grounded the fleet.
ALEXANDRE DE JUNIAC, DIRECTOR GENERAL, IATA: Yes, we had expected, you know, two weeks ago, a loss of revenues of $113 billion as a loss of
revenues. We are now forecasting $252 billion loss of revenues. You know, it's a direct consequence of the closure of borders, because, you know, now
for two weeks, governments have been closing borders, restricting travel, banning travel everywhere in the world at a speed and -- at a speed and the
magnitude that was difficult to forecast.
[15:40:02]
But the impact is immense on our industry, and it's basically a negative impact that will -- and it's the most severe crisis we have ever had for
the last 20 years, even more severe than the September 11th, and the (INAUDIBLE) than the economy crisis in 2008. So, we are facing something
unprecedented.
QUEST: OK. Do you expect more airlines to effectively ground the fleet? Now, in some cases, you've had Austrian and you've had Brussels and Porter
is much smaller, but they've literally -- they've sort of said, OK, we're not flying anywhere. Would you expect one of the majors to do that?
DE JUNIAC: Of course, we expect the majors. They have already announced it. You know, we see that in the -- in the Middle East. You know, Emirates and
(INAUDIBLE) has announced that they are going, you know, to see operations. Bigger airline to Europe have grounded something like 90 percent of their
fleet, which is almost, you know, a shut down. We see in Asia, very well- known and famous companies that are almost shut down. And to -- also, to Australia. So, in Latin America, so yes, we are expecting more and more
airlines, you know, to ground more and more aircrafts. Thousands of aircrafts are grounded now.
QUEST: The government, the U.S. government is going to provide tens of billions. Other countries are looking to do similarly. The sums of money
that you're hearing at the moment, Alexandre, is that enough?
DE JUNIAC: You know, we have -- we have an estimation of the need for -- of the industry in terms of cash injection by whatever means, credit lines,
guarantees, capital increase, capital injection, whatever. And this estimate is around $200 billion in terms of cash injection. There's a
difference between the cash injection and loss of revenues. But it is, you know -- and when we pile up all the plans that have been announced, we are
not yet at this level. But we have to thank government to have been very open to the arguments we put forward, you know, to help this industry.
QUEST: Right.
DE JUNIAC: This industry is running out of cash. We desperately need cash and money to survive. And government has been open to that.
QUEST: Just put it bluntly and crudely, if you will, if they don't get the money, it looks like they will, but if they won't get the money, then these
airlines will go bust.
DE JUNIAC: Probably. You know, we have -- we have estimated that in June, half of the airline would be totally -- would run total out of cash, if
nothing is done. So, that's the reason why we are urging government to act -- they have to act massively and quickly.
QUEST: I'm not saying it's a -- it's not a zero sum game in this sense. I mean -- and one is, but to those listening who would say, Yes, do you know
if they hadn't given so much in share buybacks, they would have had a bigger buffer for this crisis? Would that have made a difference?
DE JUNIAC: I think it's a -- it's a minor issue, the share buyback. I understand the argument, but frankly, financially and economically, we know
we are not in the same order of magnitude when you think about that. You know, never -- we have never seen a shock of that magnitude. Never. So, it
has never happened that you could relate, you know, the impact of a pandemic as we have, plus an economic recession, and a complete closure of
the economy. It's something unknown, and what we expect in terms of loss of revenues and cash injection has nothing to see with, you know, the share
buyback that we have had. And that has been, you know, common practice in other sectors, frankly.
QUEST: Alexander, good to see you, sir. Director General of IATA. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
DE JUNIAC: Thank you very much.
QUEST: In a moment, the voices of the coronavirus when we return. I'll talk to the co-founder of Nobu, who's had to shed his New York locations as the
pandemic continues.
[15:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: As we've been telling you here on this program, we're dedicated to bring you the voices of the crisis, the businesses big and small, who have
to make impossible decisions about everything from stuffing to delivery. Nobu, yes, you'll be familiar with Nobu, the global Japanese restaurant
brand, dozens of locations and a strong celebrity following in New York, its parent company has been forced to close all locations. They were forced
by the government by the state.
Drew Nieporent is the owner of the Myriad Restaurant Group, which operates Nobu's New York branches and the famous Tribeca Grill. Good to see you,
sir. And we should -- we should only talk on happier circumstances. All your restaurants have been closed. So, revenue has stopped, unless you've
got a bit of delivery going on. But effectively, revenue has stopped and your expenses continue. This is the -- there's no easy solutions here.
DREW NIEPORENT, OWNER, MYRIAD RESTAURANT GROUP (via Skype): No, it's totally unprecedented. And you know, I've opened 40 restaurants in my
career, and Robert De Niro's partner for 30 years at Tribeca Grill, and I even make the hamburgers at Madison Square Garden, which are quite
delicious. But Nobu is just an unbelievable juggernaut. It is 50 around the world.
And so, being shut down, and we're shut down around the world. I was actually -- today, I was supposed to be flying to London, where we have
three Nobus. So, but --
QUEST: So, what do you need? Let's be practical about this. Because you're a large business in that sense. What help are you going to get from the
various different governments or various authorities that will enable you A, to keep your staff and B, to reopen?
NIEPORENT: You know, my colleagues, they wrote an op-ed piece today in the New York Times quite eloquently, but I'm not -- I'm not holding my breath.
We had to go from a business decision, which was ours to make. And then it was taken completely out of our jurisdiction. And when that happened, we
made a decision about health.
And basically, Richard, I'm going to just say this, you know, I always saved every single dollar that I ever made for an occasion just like this.
So, really, it's day-by-day and we got to wait it out.
QUEST: Do you think -- you've built this up over a lifetime.
NIEPORENT: Right.
QUEST: Will all the store -- will all the restaurants open again?
NIEPORENT: You know, I'm very optimistic that they will, yes.
QUEST: And the staff, have you been able to help them as much as you can?
NIEPORENT: Well, you know, the members of the staff, Nobu has been open for 25 years. We opened in 1994. So, there's certain members of the staff that
have been with us almost from the beginning, those people we obviously have to take care of. The waiters just give you a basic idea on a night where we
would do 80 to $100,000 in sales, the waiters were making $20,000 in tips, a day.
[15:50:10]
So, they're taking the biggest hit right now.
QUEST: Good to talk to you, sir. Listen, I'll say to you when I say to all the restauranteurs that I'm speaking to, when this is over, we're coming to
your place for dinner, and I'll pick up the bill.
NIEPORENT: God bless you. I love you.
QUEST: Thank you, sir. Good to have you on the program tonight. It's about hope, for what's happening next, let's have some hope. The first human
trial of a vaccine that could protect is underway in Washington State. Moderna Therapeutics, a biotech company, is working with the NIH to
administer the study. It's testing a vaccine in 45 people, and ready to make millions if successful. It could take months before our vaccine
reaches the public.
Seth Berkley is the CEO of GAVI, set up by the Gates Foundation to help vaccinate millions of children in the developing country. Seth, and I
hesitate to do these vaccination stories because, you know, I want it yesterday, I want you -- I want you to tell me that it's available. And I
want you to tell me that you've got plenty to give me. And that's not going to happen anytime soon.
SETH BERKLEY, CEO OF GAVI (via Skype): That is correct. I cannot tell you we have plenty to give you or any to give you. But what I can say is we
have an unprecedented effort that's going on. At last count, there were 44 vaccine approaches in the WHO list that are moving forward and some
(INAUDIBLE) double that number. So, science is leaning in on this. Of course, it will take some time.
QUEST: Okay. So, the thing I do want to focus on as well is, COVID-19 is only now starting to hit the emerging markets, Africa, parts of Latin
America. Those who are least able, whose health services are basically on their knees to begin with. how scared are you?
BERKLEY: You know, that's exactly why, right, Richard. A few weeks ago, we hadn't seen a lot of cases in the developing world. Of course, there wasn't
a lot of testing, but we didn't see bodies building up, you know, in the main teaching hospitals. So, we were surprised. But of course, it would
have been a fool's errand to say it's not going to get there. Since then, in our 73 poorest countries, 60 of them already have cases and the death
rates and the numbers of cases are going up.
And you're absolutely right, those countries are less well prepared for it, the health systems are not as strong. And of course, a lot of the people
work in the informal sector, they can't just rely on social, you know, nets that are going to help them during this time. So, it is tough. The one
silver lining perhaps is that the population there is much younger and therefore, they may not get quite as much of a burden of very severe
disease, but as you know, it can be severe in younger people as well.
QUEST: Besides the testing side, which I understand takes time, why is it so difficult to come up with a virus? I mean, I realized that's a big
question for a simplistic answer. But, I mean, to those of us who don't know anything about the virus -- the vaccine business.
BERKLEY: So, the way the vaccine business used to work is, you would know if you got measles, natural measles, you didn't die, you didn't have any
complications, you are immune for the rest of your life. Same thing with yellow fever, same thing, even with smallpox. So, if you could get the same
immune response that those diseases gave you, without getting that severe disease, you'd be protected.
Of course, we don't yet know how long you're protected if the immune response is strong enough, is it lifetime. So, one has to understand a
little bit of that immunity, and then target the type of approaches. Of course, you have to test it not just in healthy people, you got to test it
in the elderly and young people, you have to make sure that it's safe, and then you have to figure out how to produce it.
And in this case, it's not millions of doses, it may be billions of doses. So, all of that takes time. But of course, the world will do everything
they can to try to accelerate it.
QUEST: The idea of herd immunity. I mean, eventually, herd immunity is exactly what you do get if you haven't got a vaccine, but is -- you know,
and everybody's -- you'll be familiar in the U.K. Everyone was taught even though the government denied that was the policy. Is herd immunity a valid
thing to talk about? Is -- or is it a bit of dangerous nonsense?
BERKLEY: Well, first of all, it depends upon the disease. Some diseases like measles, you need to have 95 percent of the population have been
either vaccinated or infected before you have herd immunity. Other diseases like, Haemophilus influenza type B, a common cause of pneumonia, is
probably 60 or 70 percent.
QUEST: Right.
BERKLEY: So, it depends. But again, we don't know in this case, whether we get long term immunity. The common cold coronaviruses, you can get re-
infected with them after a time.
[15:55:05]
So, the concept of herd immunity, first of all, means, in this case, you'd have to have, you know, 50, 60, 70, 80 percent of the population infected,
a lot of deaths would occur with that. And then it might be that you don't get long term protection. So, I think this is something we'll learn about.
Hopefully, we can get herd immunity with a vaccine. But it's not something that I would be going for with natural infection, as a first choice.
QUEST: Seth, we'll talk more in the future. Very fascinating, what we've been talking about there, I'm grateful. Thank you. And that is the last few
moments on Wall Street. Just look at that. Revit 2000. I haven't got the chart there. I think that is now the best percentage gain since 2008. It's
the best points game in history. And it's all because the U.S. Senate is closing in on a deal.
All sectors arts. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, today has been a
profitable day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN BREAKING NEWS.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. At this hour, the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in the United
States has surpassed 50,000, that's up from just 6,000 at this time last week, the death toll now continuing to rise, a terrifying 649 right now
jumping more than 100 deaths just in the last 24 hours.
We have also just learned of another tragic death, a child in Los Angeles County has died. One of the first children to die in the U.S. from the
coronavirus. And with this rapid acceleration in deaths, the World Health Organization says the U.S. could eclipse Europe and become the next
epicenter of the coronavirus. Also, right now, the Senate is close to a deal on a major stimulus package to help ease the economic pain of this
pandemic. The Dow soaring up on that news as it closes in moments for the day.
Meantime, more than 2.5 billion people worldwide are under some version of a partial or total lockdown, or with restrictions due to this pandemic.
According to CNN's calculation, that's nearly a third of the world's entire population, it includes about half of Americans though, President Trump is
making clear that he wants the United States to get back to work, at least in some form.
This afternoon, the President said his goal is to reopen the country by Easter, April 12th. That's less than three weeks from now. Minutes ago, the
President said it would be a beautiful time to have packed churches all over the country.
END
