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Quest Means Business

U.S. Jobless Claims Rise To 22 Million Over Four Weeks; G-20 Agrees To Freeze Debt For World's Poorest Nations; Moody's Warns Outbreak Will Trigger Layoffs In More Sectors; Amazon Shares Spike As Jeff Bezos Reveals Plans For Virus Test; PwC: CFOs Say "Business As Usual" In Months If Crisis Ended Now; Dubai Entertainment Firm's Business Stalled By Virus; Brazil's Health Minister Says He Has Been Fired By Jair Bolsonaro. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 16, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: The reasons why. The money Washington has put aside for small businesses has run out. At the same time, the

unemployment numbers continue to rise very sharply.

The G-20 and the Saudi leadership is announcing new measures to help stall the pandemic. We have an interview with the Saudi Finance Minister

exclusive. It is coming up in just a moment.

And Jeff Bezos is winning as Amazon shares go to an all-time high.

Live from New York on Thursday, the 16th of April, I'm Richard Quest. And yes, the sun is shining, and I mean business.

Well, I said the sun was shining and it was for all of about 32 seconds. It's also a blustery day today. So apologies if you hear a bit more noise

than you would like to, and I don't mean from me.

Turning to the economy, and we had two phases of the crisis that are trying to -- that are playing out at the same time. In three hours, Donald Trump

will announce his roadmap to reopen large swaths of the U.S. economy.

There is a briefing with the state governors which is taking place now. But at the same time, the other side to this is, the damage that is still being

done and wreaked to the economy.

Let's look at the jobless numbers. Unemployment claims came out today as they do every Thursday, there are now 22 million more Americans who are on

unemployment benefits, and that's in the last four weeks. It is more than the total number of jobs created since the Great Recession over the last

decade.

And the belief is that what you're looking at in terms of people who have lost their jobs and are claiming benefit, the real number, of course, is

probably likely higher because there are those people who have lost jobs, but for whatever reason, aren't claiming benefit.

The organization, the Small Business Administration, the agency that was looking after loans to small businesses had some grim news. The money

Congress set aside for small businesses, the so-called PPP, the Payroll Protection Program -- that money has run out.

Julia Chatterley is with me. Julia, let's start with the unemployment numbers. We knew and expected them to be bad. They weren't as bad as last

week, but that's pretty small comfort. But what is the real issue here?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Well, we're talking about a potential unemployment rate now in the United States of 15 percent.

It dwarves anything we saw in the financial crisis, Richard. And you made the point already, we know that the individual states are still challenged

with a tsunami of claims that they've had to deal with.

If you go back to January, if you remember, we were talking, barely talking, in fact, about initial claims of around $200,000.00. Now, we're

talking about $22 million in the last four weeks.

They're struggling to handle it. There's also around 23 million gig economy workers, like freelancers in the United States, and I've heard throughout

the day from people in various different states that they simply can't get online. The systems aren't ready for them to register.

So as bad as this looks, as the trend over the last few weeks appears to be lowering, there's plenty more damage to be wrought here, Richard. That's my

view.

QUEST: What do you think is the number who will be re-employed? $as the economy starts to reopen and the governors and the President are all going

to be talking about that, but some economic activity will be restarting in weeks, not months, and that will surely bring some people -- not many, but

some people back onto payrolls.

CHATTERLEY: This is such a vital question because when we're talking about initial claims, this includes people that have lost their jobs, people that

have just been furloughed, so they're still attached to a business, and then those that are claiming for benefits, and may not have lost their jobs

yet?

So the science on this is desperately imperfect. It is going to come down to how quickly we can get businesses up and running. It is also going to

come down to what you just mentioned and that was the Paycheck Protection scheme that's now run out of money.

This was devised to give small businesses money to grant, give them money that they don't have to pay back to retain workers. If Congress can't get

their act together, quite frankly and raise this money, each day, we will lose small businesses in the United States. It's that desperate.

[15:05:06]

CHATTERLEY: I spoke to the CEO of Intuit, it is an online lender and I asked him what was the position for a lot the smallest businesses in his

country and his clients, listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SASAN GOODARZI, CEO, INTUIT: They are fighters. They will do whatever it takes to the last penny until they have no more money left in the bank.

What I would tell you is, the very small ones, many of them have already run out of cash and they're just piling debt on their credit cards,

borrowing money to be able to stay afloat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: Everyday counts, Richard. The former head of the Small Business Administration told me on "First Move" last week, in a best-case

scenario, we lose 20 percent of small businesses. That's around six million small businesses. Imagine the job losses.

QUEST: Julia. Julia Chatterley with "First Move." Julia, thank you. See you tomorrow.

Now, the world's poorest economies had a lifeline handed to them -- an economic lifeline of sorts handed to them this morning. The G-20 has agreed

to suspend debt service payments, at least through the end of the year. Now, that will free up some $20 billion for developing countries.

The Saudis hosted the G-20 meeting yesterday via videoconference. The Saudi Finance Minister, Mohammed Al-Jadaan he joins me now from Riyadh with this

exclusive discussion.

Minister, thank you. The G-20 seems to have been slow to start, but is now picking up speed with real concrete policies that are going to help those

most in need.

MOHAMMED AL-JADAAN, SAUDI FINANCE MINISTER: Thank you very much, Richard. I think the G-20, to the opposite, the G-20 have actually acted very

quickly, robustly, strongly and swiftly.

We have had ten meetings over the last six weeks. The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques called for an Extraordinary Summit that was held on the 26th

of March, which mandated the Ministers of Finance and the Ministers of Health to put together a plan. That plan had been worked on for the last

two weeks and it was announced yesterday that came about with full agreement from the G-20 members, full cooperation, full solidarity.

That then included, as you have just said, suspension for all the debts to the poor countries. That would give them a breathing space north of $20

billion. In addition to obviously various others.

So the speed, the severity, and the shock that these countries have received, the calls for assistance.

QUEST: Is it your thinking, Minister that more will need to be done to help those most indebted countries? It's one thing to suspend debt service,

but don't you think in the fullness of time, you're going to be looking at debt relief?

AL-JADAAN: G-20 presidency strategy which we have discussed with the G-20 members and international organizations basically consists of assessing

constantly because the economic and health situation develops every day, so we need to monitor it every day, and then ensure that we protect the

people, we protect the health service workers in the frontline, we protect businesses, and that has been done.

$7 trillion have been injected by the G-20 economies in their economy, and then obviously, the developing nations and poor countries have received the

debt suspension. This is just a very thorny process, because for us to look at restructuring of the debt, there will probably more debt which will take

time.

So yes, there is a need and we are working on it as we speak through the G- 20 action plan that we have put together and was approved yesterday.

QUEST: Okay, in terms of the money that Saudi is putting aside towards pandemic -- understanding pandemic relief. You're putting $500 million

towards that that will be disbursed to various organizations. Is this goal towards helping fund a vaccine? To help fund readiness for the future?

AL-JADAAN: Absolutely. I think for the last few years, the health organizations around the world were crying out for support. That funding

gap, the immediate and urgent funding gap was not met.

Saudi Arabia during the Extraordinary Summit by their leaders have agreed with the G-20 members to put together a plan to fill that gap.

[15:10:10]

AL-JADAAN: Currently that gap, the short-term gap is assessed at $8 billion and we are announcing through your channel now, through your

network, that we are putting -- we are committing $500 million to the various international organizations and we are calling on the rest of the

G-20 members and the international organizations, the rest of the world, to put together more money to fill the urgent gap and we believe that will be

done.

QUEST: Right. Minister, I want to talk about your own economy, if I may, sir. And not so much about whether this oil price will stick or not, but

the ability of your economy, which is showing certain signs of spending strains to maintain the current levels of spending, which will be very

difficult with oil prices at these lower levels and the agreed cut.

How far do you think you'll have to suspend the Crown Prince's vision for the future, the diversification, the Vision 2030 Plan, how much will that

have to be altered and suspended to account for the new economic reality?

AL-JADAAN: Richard, we are facing this shock, whether it is the COVID-19 or the oil price, from a point of strength, and that was confirmed, if you

recall, only in the last ten days. The three international rating agencies, Standard & Poor's, and the rest of them have confirmed Saudi Arabia's

rating with an outlook as stable.

We have done a lot of work in the last three years to diversify the economy. We have significant financial buffers, so we believe that we would

be able to face it. We will need to reprioritize our spending, of course, like everybody else, but I believe the main plans are on track.

QUEST: And in terms of the ability of the Gulf Sovereign Wealth Funds -- I mean, there's no easy way to use the phrase other than take advantage of a

situation of beaten-down prices, do you -- what would you say will be Saudi's policy in terms of opportunistic purchases, companies, investments,

because prices are lower and many of your Sovereign Wealth Funds do, indeed, have capital to invest? What will your policy be on this?

AL-JADAAN: I believe the public investment fund which manages Saudi Arabia's Sovereign Wealth is in addition obviously to the Central Bank,

which has significant foreign reserves, but PIF itself has its own Board and they have decided that they will allocate certain funding to use it for

certain investments, in addition to their long-term strategy.

QUEST: Minister, finally, as you look out at the Saudi G-20 presidency, briefly, what is still to do? What do you now see as your main

responsibility leading the G-20 for the rest of the term?

AL-JADAAN: Richard, let me tell you that I was very thrilled and pleased with how the G-20 members came together since the start of the COVID-19.

Obviously, we had an agenda that we are continuing with and we had overwhelming support from the G-20 members to continue with the agenda.

But then there are certain parts of it that we adjusted to deal with the COVID-19, that members are committed to continue with that agenda. We need

to make sure that we continue assessing the situation, whether economically ordered. We need to make sure we protect and protect the people and protect

businesses, and we need to make sure that we prepare the world for recovery, and that's what we are now discussing amongst the members, but

also with the international organization.

It is how we are preparing people to exit from the containment measures into the recovery and prepare the world for a quick recovery out of the

COVID-19.

QUEST: Thank you, Minister. I appreciate your time today. Thank you. Joining me, the Saudi Finance Minister.

This is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. We're live in New York. We'll be back. Economics, small businesses, and how exactly the jobless crisis can be

dealt with, in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:50]

QUEST: Welcome back. So we know that 22 million have lost their jobs in the United States. It started, of course, with hospitality, retail, and

transportation. Now, it's gone much further than that. It is hitting construction, mining, waste management, and as this goes further, Moody's

is warning of what it calls a second order of pullback in demand.

Basically, a downward spiral of spending that expands into other areas and sectors, such as professional services, business services. Gene Sperling is

with me, the former Director of the White House National Economic Council. This is the big problem, isn't it, Gene, because on the one hand, we know

that job losses have taken place in certain industries, but if business doesn't recover, then that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy to more job

losses.

GENE SPERLING, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Well, the hardest thing for any of us in the economic world is

that there is no solution here without a health solution. We can talk about when businesses might want to go back. You can talk about what the

government might say, but whether people feel comfortable going to ball games, concerts, restaurants, whether they feel safe -- having workers back

in factories and GM and Ford is going to come down to whether there's treatment, whether there is a vaccine, whether there is testing.

And so until that happens, we're not really in the normal game of economic stimulus. We're kind of in the game of economic survival. How do we make

enough people whole? How do we keep enough small businesses whole and running so that we can survive as a country and are able to open up with

some strength when we do get these health solutions.

QUEST: So, Gene, taking the last point that you said, bearing in mind the small business administration has run out of money for the Payroll

Protection Program, now, look, Congress probably will put more money into it, but what is in your view the right way that that money should be

allocated and dispersed?

[15:20:10]

SPERLING: So, yes, thanks for asking. Look, I think there's two ways to make people whole. One is you help them directly when they're unemployed

with healthcare and generous unemployment benefits. We have made some progress there.

The other which is often used in European countries is try to keep the business whole on the condition that they pay their workers.

So the small business program, the Payroll Protection Plan, I think is conceived in an elegant way to make sure that small businesses can get that

money, and if they're paying their workers, have some of it forgiven. The problem has been in the implementation. It has become a typical program

that allows the sophisticated to get to the front of the line, really people getting to the front of the line who shouldn't be in the line at

all.

And then you're seeing the nonprofits, you're seeing African American businesses, people without strong bank connections getting frozen out. So

this is also a huge equity issue. This was designed to get to the small businesses who really needed it and wanted to keep their workers.

And I'll tell you, it's going unfortunately to a lot of professional companies where people are making $1 million and really aren't being hurt

that much at all.

QUEST: Gene, finally, come back to that point that we said earlier about what the future looks like.

As the governors and the President decide on reopening the economy, I was very taken by yesterday the Mayor of Los Angeles saying to Wolf Blitzer

that he cannot imagine concerts, major events, sporting events, taking place in front of audiences before next year.

Extrapolate for me what you think the economy looks like by the end of the year.

SPERLING: Well, this is the right question and I think when we're -- look at the small business program. It's just for the next eight weeks. But if

we know that even when a business, when a barber shop or a restaurant opens up, if we know they'll have less tables, less people, that means high

unemployment.

When those concerts don't take place, it's not just the football players or the singer who doesn't get the money, all the people who provide the goods,

the vendors, they're all going to be out.

So we have to start thinking about something that's going to be longer and more expansive. We have to assume that we may not just have a 20 percent or

25 percent unemployment number in April. We may have 10 percent unemployment for the next year or 18 months.

So when you look at the policy response to use a baseball expression, we're in the third inning, not the eighth inning.

QUEST: Since I'm more of a cricket man than a baseball man, but I do understand what you're saying, and at some point we can compare the

difference between the two. Gene, good to have you. Thank you, Gene. Gene Sperling joining me.

SPERLING: Thank you.

QUEST: Here on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Time to Act. So, now the European Union Commission President, Ursula van der Leyen has apologized to Italy

for the lack of assistance that was given to Italy at the beginning of the crisis, basically saying and admitting that Italy was left on its own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

URSULA VAN DER LEYEN, E.U. COMMISSION PRESIDENT: You cannot overcome a pandemic of this speed and this scale without the truth. The truth about

everything. The numbers, the science, the outlook. But also about our own actions.

Yes, it is true that no one was really ready for this. It is also true that too many were not there on time when Italy needed a helping hand at the

very beginning. And yes, for that, it is right that Europe as a whole offers a heartfelt apology.

But saying sorry only counts for something if it changes behavior, and the truth is, too, that it did not take long before everyone realized that we

must protect each other to protect ourselves.

And the truth is that Europe has now become the world's beating heart of solidarity. The true Europe is standing up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Others say and agree that Europe hasn't done enough and seemingly doesn't seem capable. The former Danish Prime Minister left no one in

doubt, speaking to CNN that Europe -- the E.U. had not acted as one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HELLE THORNING-SCHMIDT, FORMER DANISH PRIME MINISTER: It has not been pretty to see that there's always been massive fighting between north and

south.

[15:25:10]

THORNING-SCHMIDT: Portugal and Netherlands have been in verbal fights and it doesn't look good, and I think, if you look at it, the European member

states have not passed this test of solidarity in a very difficult time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now, let's talk about this with the Finance Minister of Austria, Gernot Blumel who joins me from Vienna. Minister, Austria -- we'll come to

Austria lifting its restrictions in just a second. I just want to get your perspective.

There is a view that when the crisis most hit and was needed most hard, the E.U. simply did not perform as one. Surely, that has to now be admitted and

reflected upon.

GERNOT BLUMEL, AUSTRIAN FINANCE MINISTER: Well, if those people who say so take a look at what the Finance Ministers of the European Union did last

week for example, we've shown massive solidarity.

We've constructed an umbrella for Europe of over half a trillion euros, so this is a very decisive and serious amount. Of course, different states

have different views on the severity of the crisis and the virus, so different states took different measures.

I'm happy to say that Austria was one of those states that took quite severe measures at the beginning, so we were able to really reduce the

spread of the virus.

QUEST: As you plan the reopening, what's your biggest fear? Obviously, you know, it is the resurgence of COVID-19, but how do you manage that?

BLUMEL: Well, the first thing that we wanted to accomplish was that the spread of the virus isn't too heavy for the health system to care for all

the sick people.

We knew that if we wouldn't do anything, then in a few days and weeks of time we would have had the same situation like in Italy where doctors have

to for example, had to decide which patient gets the necessary cure for surviving and which one not, because there wasn't simply enough capacity.

That was the reason why we shut down schools and basically the whole economy, and didn't permit people to go out too much. And therefore, we

managed to reduce the spread of the virus.

And now as we have a steady curve and now as we can assure that there is enough capacity in the public health system, we tried to reopen step by

step our economy.

QUEST: The thing that worries me, of course, is about the reopening and the resurgence. If you look after the last Great Recession, Europe created

a lot of jobs, but it never really got the unemployment rate truly down like the U.S. did.

With this level of unemployment rising, it will be just as difficult. What more can Finance Ministers do to actually get that down -- that level of

unemployment down?

BLUMEL: I think two different steps. The first step is to take the right measures during this crisis. That means protecting our economies,

especially the small and medium businesses, pouring money into economies to keep people employed.

We have a massive short-working schemes in progress and generally, we developed a safety net for the Austrian economy of 38 billion euros, which

accounts for approximately 10 percent of Austrian GDP, and all the other countries in Europe are doing similar measures. That's the first step.

The second is that when we see that the pandemic comes to an end -- that we have to set the right measures in order to boost the economy again and,

from my perspective, this would be especially anti-bureaucracy measures and lowering taxes and incentivizing the economies to do more investments.

QUEST: Minister, I appreciate your time tonight. Busy days, I know. Thank you, sir, for joining us.

When we come back in just a moment, Jeff Bezos -- well, Amazon share price is at an all-time high or thereabout. The company itself now says it wants

to get into coronavirus testing, putting the weight and heft of the company behind it. This is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS live from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:32:55]

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. Jeff Bezos says Amazon workers might get their own COVID-19 test

now the company is developing. We'll discuss that in a moment.

And CFOs say it could be months, many months before anything approaching normality and that's only if the crisis ended today. The head of the PwC

will be with me to talk about their latest survey. This is CNN, and on this network, the facts always come first.

The U.S. Food and Drug Admin. Commissioner says his agency is working with international counterparts to find a coronavirus vaccine and they're trying

to expedite the clinical trials. Saudi Arabia is pledging $500 million to support vaccine development and worldwide efforts to combat the pandemic.

The British Foreign Minister Dominic Raab is joining in the Clap for Carers tonight. Moments ago, he and other Britains took a moment to applaud health

workers and others. It became a weekly moment of solidarity during the lockdown. The government announced earlier it's extended for at least three

more weeks.

Brazil's president has fired his health minister. According to the minister's Twitter account, the two have reported they disagreed on how to

respond to the pandemic. Brazil has reported nearly 30,000 cases and more than 1,700 deaths since the outbreak began.

Amazon shares have gone to an all-time high on news that the company is developing its own virus test. Now, whether this will be used only for

Amazon employees or others is remains to be seen.

Jeff Bezos says Amazon will soon start testing a small number of workers. Amazon seems to be on an entirely different planet when it comes to trading

and for its business during this crisis.

[15:35:09]

QUEST: For instance, while many are being laid off, you saw the numbers in the unemployment claims, Amazon's added nearly 200,000 workers. Many stocks

are struggling deeply discounted. Amazon is up 30 percent this year.

All of this means, while some investors, most investors are showing losses on portfolios and pensions, Amazon's Jeff Bezos is worth billions of

dollars more now than he was at the beginning of the crisis.

Clare Sebastian is with me. Clare, these facts are undeniable and I can see why Amazon is running a company that is the backbone of all of our

commercial life and retail life at the moment. But is there going to be a backlash against the -- against Bezos?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Richard, that is one of the key risks that Amazon faces throughout all of this. Reputation is

critical. They have faced criticism not only for allegedly letting down their staff in terms of safety. The company says they've launched 150

different new process to say help with safety, including temperature checks and now the testing could be a big one as well.

But there's also, Richard, the issue of consumers as well. There's been price gouging on the site. The company says it's trying to tackle it, but

that has been a big problem. So they need to continue to show that they can deal with all that.

And the other risk to Amazon, Richard, that's crucial to bear in mind in all of this, is cost. They were already in an investment cycle. They were

spending big billions of dollars on expanding one-day shipping. Now they're spending at least $500 million. The company says over the course of April

alone to up to salaries of staff. They're also hiring as you said, 175,000 new workers to deal with the surge in demand. So that is something the

company needs to watch.

Jeff Bezos acknowledged today in the shareholder letter that this would be expensive. But of course, within all this huge opportunity for the -- over

the company to become even bigger than it already is.

QUEST: You know, related to that, and the spending that Amazon is doing and always has done, it does beg the question of at what point regulators,

which I suppose is even more difficult here in the United States, but there's personal animus between the president and Jeff Bezos, where

regulators say that this company is too big.

SEBASTIAN: Well, Richard, that was only a discussion that was waiting pretty heavily before this begun, it was interesting. In the last year

shareholder letter, that the shareholder letter tended to address the prevailing criticism, this year was issues to do with COVID-19 and last

year they talked about the power of the third-party seller, sort of an answer to criticism how their market power had become too much.

But it's interesting to look at that in the context of the news today around testing, because I look at that, this isn't outside the realm of

Amazon (INAUDIBLE) overall. One of the new frontiers that the company was trying to move into before this was health care. They had partnered you

remember with J.P. Morgan and Berkshire Hathaway on sort of an employee insurance. Apart of that, they had acquired a couple of health care

startups.

If they can build credibility within the health care space during this global health crisis, that may be an area that they continue to try to

disrupt. Yet another sort of sector of the economy that Amazon will be trying to dominate.

QUEST: Clare, thank you. Clare Sebastian in New York.

Now, we're all aware of course the coronavirus has required the consolation of large numbers of meetings, conferences and events. If your business is

like La Cle in Dubai, well, that was your business when the meetings went sordid your business. We'll be talking to the head of La Cle after the

break. Our voice of the crisis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:41:26]

QUEST: Welcome back. The PwC has been polling and doing a survey of chief financial officers and how they view what's taking place at the moment.

They say cost containment is the highest priority and 56 percent of firms say they could return to business as usual in three months if the crisis

ended today.

Bob Moritz is with me, the Global Chairman of PwC. Bob, it is always good to talk to you about these things. 56 percent say that business could be

back to normal in three months if it ended today. Are they deceiving themselves? Do you think that people -- that they sort of want to believe

that? The reality is business won't be going back to normal for many, many months.

BOB MORITZ, GLOBAL CHAIRMAN, PWC: I think the CFOs that came into the survey process truly were focused on more so the health crisis rather than

the resulting economic crisis that's come out of this, Richard. So this number continues to lengthen in terms of the amount of time that businesses

think they're going to need to recover. And my expectations over the next few weeks when we do the survey again, that number will lengthen quite a

bit when people think about the amount of debt they have take on, the restructure they have to do, as well as the other implications to their

businesses going forward.

QUEST: What do they do? What does a company do and medium-sized -- we're going to be talking to a small company just after you. But a medium sized

company, say 500 to 2,000 employees, they -- professional services, light manufacturing. How do you begin to restructure for what you cannot know

will be the trading environment next year?

MORITZ: It's clear that the business community has to think about decisions that have implications to short-term cash flow today and protect as much

cash as possible. It also is clear that they're focused on getting access to additional funding through government programs or bank facilities, while

at the same time thinking about how do they actually restructure the existing debt they've got under way.

So being agile, nimble and moving agility -- with agility is going to be a key going forward. But let's remember, Richard, these organizations are

still making decisions that have an impact six months from now. A small retail company that's a supplier in the retail space has to think about

what actually should I be producing today for perhaps Christmas or holiday shopping season six months from now.

QUEST: So what are you doing with your business? I mean, you obviously advise other people but a case -- you know, the old case of physician heal

thyself. What changes are you thinking about at PwC for restructuring yourself?

MORITZ: So the big thing for us as a service organization was how can we work remotely, leveraging digital and technology advantages going forward.

And thankfully over the last three years or so, we've spent a lot of time upgrading our facilities and our infrastructure putting in the right

systems and skilling our people to work any place, any time, anywhere. That's actually served us well during this crisis.

So as a result, we're still able to continue. And the challenge is how do we keep focused on what the client needs at the end of the day. So that

restructuring is not so much a restructuring but a continuation of our transformation. And this is where good organizations now are now only

focused on dealing with the (INAUDIBLE) of the crisis.

Also, thinking about what do I want to be when I come out of this? Your point around some planning. Management teams are thinking about business

and keeping it running, keeping the lights on, second dealing with the crisis. Some that are really advanced are thinking what should I be x

number of months from now when I get through this problem?

[15:45:01]

QUEST: Answer that last part for yourself about what you want PwC to be after this crisis.

MORITZ: It's an organization that is much more nimble, much more digital, able to work any place, any time, probably less flying and less travel.

Less perhaps, work space that we need ultimately in terms of the housing of our people or the residencies that they have that the clients they serve

and a lot more technology embedded in the automation of our offerings, the services that we do in the audit business, tax business, consulting and

deals business going forward.

QUEST: And good to talk to you about that. Thank you. Bob joining me there, Bob Moritz from PwC.

Now, when the -- when everything shut down, those businesses that made a living out of entertainment were truly awfully hit. The (INAUDIBLE)

entertainment agency La Cle in Dubai says business came to a complete standstill amid the crisis. There's been no work since it managed its last

wedding on March the 13th. And one of the big -- one of the big problems was all of these artists that you see here who are performing, they had to

get their employees back to their respective countries.

Sherin Al Alami is the founder and creator of La Cle Entertainment, who joins me now from Dubai. Well, I mean, you literally go from everything to

nothing, but you saw it coming in the sense of the way hotels were canceling different events. When did you realize this was going to be

dramatic, bordering on catastrophic?

SHERIN AL ALAMI, FOUNDER AND CREATOR, LA CLE ENTERTAINMENT: well, hi, Richard. Thank you for having me tonight. It started end of February. It

started slowly with the hotels. I think it just with tourism cutting and hotels slowing down, occupancy, it just trickled into corporate events,

weddings. We do a lot of destination weddings. So it just started I guess end of March and by beginning of -- sorry, end of February, beginning of

March, it was just almost obsolete.

QUEST: Right. And as it completely shut down, what was the first thing you had to do? You had artists, you had employees, but they had to be returned

home. Tell me about that.

AL ALAMI: Yes, so we have artists from all around the world that come into Dubai. As you know, Dubai is a very buzzing -- has a night life and so we

had to immediately find a solution to send them back to their respective countries. We had a feeling airports and travel was going to become

restricted, so it was just kind of an immediate decision and crisis mode for our team to just send everyone back to their respective countries. I

think it was the right decision to do.

QUEST: Well, your costs, of course for your rehearsal space, the apartments and things like that. Now look, I mean, one hates to look gloomily to the

future, Sherin, but it does seem highly unlikely that people will be able to have events, meetings, large weddings. So how will you -- how will you

handle a business that might not exist in any real form for many more months?

AL ALAMI: Yes, we've -- it will take a lot of time. I think we're going to have to a certain extent maybe look into different streamlines being

innovative. There's a lot going on on the digital front. I think we need to just be a little bit creative on that -- on that front for the time being.

QUEST: Do you feel that you're in the middle of a storm where you can't see which way to sail out of the storm? Do you have any clarity in your mind

about what you think you need to do to keep yourself going during this?

AL ALAMI: Well, yes, I do think it's a time to reflect, it's a time to just kind of bring everyone back to basics, to the simple kind of thought

process maybe, and re-align in a few months. I do think it's going to take a massive hit, hospitality. I do think tourism, travel, it will take a few

months and it's a time to just reflect, and maybe as artists, musicians, entertainers, just step back and see what -- how we can re-invent ourselves

and find a future in that environment.

QUEST: Sherin, I always say than it is, when it's all over, next time I'm in Dubai, well --

AL ALAMI: Yes.

QUEST: -- you can put on a -- you can put on a party. How about that -- how about that?

AL ALAMI: Absolutely. We look forward to having you.

QUEST: Absolutely. And it's one promise I know I'll be able to keep because we're always in Dubai at some point or another and we'll look forward to

arranging some party for us. I hope some -- thank you, Sherin.

[15:50:10]

QUEST: I hope somebody somewhere is keeping a list of all of these promises. I have a feeling my boss is going to be counting them up and it

will be coming out of my paycheck.

And we will take a short break. When we come back in just a moment, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. The markets nearly closed. It's nearly 4:00. We'll have

more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Brazil health -- Brazil's health minister, according to the health minister's account -- Shasta is with me to explain why. What's happening?

How come he was fired?

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this comes after weeks of in-fighting and threats, Richard. The President Jair Bolsonaro has

been at loggerheads with his minister and we found out today that the Minister Luiz Henrique Mandetta that was summoned to Bolsonaro's offices

where according to a tweet that he put out afterwards, he was indeed let go.

And this is in the middle of the coronavirus crisis here. Mandetta, the now former health minister has been one of the biggest proponents of social

isolation. He's really backed governor efforts -- governors' efforts to close schools, to close businesses. In some cases, to enforce sheltering at

home policies.

At the same time, the president, Bolsonaro, has insisted that all of these sheltering at home policies, closing of businesses, could actually kill

more people or be more dangerous than the virus itself. So they have frequently fought publicly, and this has been coming really for days,

possibly even weeks.

We've heard from sources that he is likely to be replaced by an oncologist called Nelson Teich, who's close to Bolsonaro, but who's also publicly

supported the social isolation policies. So we may not see a big change in policy, what we will see is some ratcheting down of the political tensions,

which is important because COVID-19 is just growing here in Brazil where we're a couple of weeks behind the United States.

For example, there are over 30,000 confirmed cases. But it's just growing exponentially in the biggest cities like Rio and Sao Paulo. The emergency

beds are nearing full in some of the northern states, and the Amazon region they're reportedly collapsing. So there needs to be a very focused message

at this point, Richard.

[15:55:06]

QUEST: Shasta Darlington joining me from Sao Paulo. Shasta, thank you.

A quick look at the markets and show you how Dow trading as we come towards the closing bell. The markets up in generally. Well, they've been all over

the place, the markets, as they've been trading over the course of the day.

Finally tonight, there you go, just down a to one point.

Finally tonight, I want to refer to Lisa Fisher. Lisa Fisher who wrote to me. She says, for me this starts -- she's 13 years old. Always good start

young when it comes to the markets. Start young and you'll make a fortune before you're old. These times are very hard. I usually play soccer and it

isn't easy not to do it at the moment. Yesterday you brought soaps and last week you promised a visitor hostel and tonight I promised I was going to

got to a party in Dubai. Lisa Fisher, we say hello to you this evening.

That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. You can see the e-mail address if you do want to get in touch.

With the markets just being down a tad, whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it is profitable. Leave you before the closing bell with the

skyline of New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington. Right now there are more than 650,000 confirmed coronavirus cases here in

the United States, nearly 31,000 people in the U.S. have lost their lives. That's double the death toll from just one week ago.

Worldwide, more than 2.1 million have been infected with the global death toll now topping 140,000. We're told President Trump will deliver new

guidelines for states to begin to open up their societies and their economies, and potentially ease social and physical distancing

restrictions.

We have some brand-new reporting. Moments ago, President Trump in a phone conversation with governors said that they, the governors will call the

shots, according to a person familiar with the call. The president also said that the May 1st date to reopen came in consultation with Dr. Fauci

and Dr. Birx of his coronavirus task force.

Dr. Deborah Birx says that at least nine states, Nebraska, Maine, Vermont, Hawaii, Montana, North Dakota, Alaska, Wyoming and West Virginia, currently

have fewer than a thousand cases each.

END