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Quest Means Business

Manufacturers Warn Against Ingesting Disinfectant After Trump Suggests It May Help Treat Virus; Georgia Nonessential Businesses Begin Reopening; Concerns Over Mounting Government Debt As E.U. Debates Relief Fund; Brazil Stocks Plummet After Justice Minister Resigns; Air France-KLM to Receive $7.5 Billion in Loans from French Government; Protesters in South Carolina Demand State Reopen. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 24, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:22]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: An hour to go before the end of trading after what has been a difficult week, and the Dow is looking like it might

just go for a three-day winning streak.

If you look at the numbers on the market at the moment, the Dow has eked up quite a strong gain, having been negative over the lunchtime period. Those

are the way the markets are looking and these are the reasons why.

Donald Trump claims he was being sarcastic after being roundly mocked for his comments concerning disinfectant and light on coronavirus.

Some U.S. states are now taking controversial steps and reopening shops, one degree or another.

And the South African President says he has been speaking and getting advice from Angela Merkel. His economic adviser is with us on this program.

We're live from New York on April -- it is the 24th of the month. I'm Richard Quest and of course at the end of the week, in my living room, I

mean business.

Good evening. There is much consternation today following President Trump's comments, which then followed on -- President Trump's comments in which he

said disinfectant and light could be used to cure coronavirus, and particularly when he said it could also be used -- if the disinfectant was

injected.

Now, the makers of Lysol and Dettol disinfectants are warning that is exactly under no circumstances what you should be doing with their product.

According to the makers of Dettol and Lysol, ?Reckitt Benckiser, the British company says, they said, "We must make it clear that under no

circumstances should our disinfectant products be administered into the human body through ingestion, injection or any other route."

Meanwhile, the White House says that the media has taken Donald Trump's comments out of context, saying the President says he was just being

sarcastic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A very sarcastic question to the reporters in the room about disinfectant on the inside. But it does

kill it and it would kill it on the hands and that would make things much better. That was done in the form of a sarcastic question to the reporters.

Okay.

QUESTION: But you were asking your medical experts to look into it.

TRUMP: No, no, no, to look into whether or not sun and disinfectant on the hands, but whether or not sun can help us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Sun or disinfectant on the hands is what the President is now saying, but listen for yourself to what he actually said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I see the disinfectant knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by ingestion inside or almost a

cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So, it will be interesting to check that.

I would like you to speak to the medical doctors to see if there's any way that you can apply light and heat to cure, if you could. And maybe you can,

maybe you can't. I say maybe you can, maybe you can't. I'm not a doctor. I'm a person that has a good you know what.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Well, meanwhile, at the same time, the number who have died in the United States has now passed more than 50,000. CNN's John King is with me.

John, I was listening to you earlier describing your incredulity in many ways at this and the way it has turned the President into something of a

laughing stock.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Richard, there's mad science and there's real science and it's sad when you're talking about the

President of the United States, but this is mad science.

And you played the President's remarks in full from yesterday. It was not a sarcastic question from a reporter. The President was positing the idea and

asking should the medical community look into both the sunlight thing and the possibility of injecting or ingesting disinfectants or poison. That

will make you sick. It could kill you.

And so we've gone through this many times in the administration where the President has said things completely at odds with the scientists. But this

one is reckless and irresponsible.

[15:05:10]

KING: And you don't need me and the President always tells people don't believe the media. You don't need to believe the media. Look what has

happened today in his own government.

Just moments ago, the Centers for Disease Control, a United States Federal agency, controlled by the Trump White House, had to tweet out disinfectants

are for cleaning surfaces, do not use them on humans, do not try to ingest them. Follow medical advice. You see it right there, in the exact words

right there, "Follow instructions on the product label."

The product label does not say ingest or inject or this will cure or help you with your coronavirus. And this is a consistent problem in this story

whether it's the virus will come back, then the President says it might not come back this fall. His scientist walks to the podium and says it will

definitely come back this fall. The question is how big and how prepared are we.

We've seen this on the scientists say the testing system is not up to speed, the President says, yes, it is. But in this case whether it's

hydroxychloroquine, which the President has stopped talked about because there have been studies saying, at a minimum that it's awash and some

studies suggesting it could actually be hurting people, raising harmful effects in treating coronavirus.

The President has stopped talking about that and in this case, yesterday, Richard, it's just reckless.

QUEST: So, if this is the sort of hand that we're played, what does one do? Because it seems to me that -- I mean, we saw it from Dr. Birx's face there

that the top advisers are spending a good deal of their time either trying to talk the President around out of something or simply that these

interminable news conferences that seem to -- I mean, you've seen "The New York Times" story this morning, John, that basically says the President

relishes because he does battle with the media.

KING: He loves battling with the media. He cannot get out on the road and do campaign rallies and he is worried about his re-election. Any politician

would.

The American economy that was booming a month or so ago is now in a recession, maybe a depression. The President's odds for re-election look

even maybe slightly favorable six weeks ago and now, that's a big open question.

So, you can understand his frustration. That does not legitimize what he is doing with his platform. He has the bully pulpit of the presidency. The

world is watching and he is saying things that are crock science.

And Richard, again, when it comes to the idea of potential treatments, if you want to say my crowd was bigger than Barack Obama's, nobody suffers

there.

If you want to say six million illegal people voted, that's the only reason Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, you know, that's wrong, but nobody

suffers for it except maybe the reputation of immigrants in this country.

But in this situation when -- look at Governor Larry Hogan of Maryland, his Chief of Staff says that a hundred plus people called the state health line

yesterday asking is it okay to take disinfectants or to use bleach for coronavirus. It's dangerous.

QUEST: But what do you do about it? I mean, that's really the problem in that sense. And there's an election in November. That might or might not

change everything. But until then, what do you do about it?

KING: Well, it's a great question because, as you know, many people have criticized our business for carrying those news conferences live, saying we

are giving the President this platform to say these things.

The President's own staff today and consistently throughout his administration say to us, the reporters, this wouldn't be such a big deal

if you people would stop talking about it. Think about that.

The President's own staff saying pay no attention to the President of the United States. That is nuts. But that's what they say, Richard. So what do

we do about it?

We face a tough choice in our business. We're in the middle of a global pandemic. The American people want advice.

The country is starting to reopen. Nine states are starting a slow process. Other states are waiting. Americans, people all around the world are

asking, is it safe? Who do I trust? Can I go to a hair salon? Can I walk into a retail store? What about touching that door handle? Can I get in an

elevator?

They want advice and one of the places to get it is in these briefings where the President does bring his experts into the room and where there

often is very important information conveyed.

The issue is, in that same chapter, sometimes a lot of crazy stuff is said and a lot of that crazy stuff is said by the President of the United

States. So, should we stop showing them? Should we show them on tape delay? I get all the concerns about all of that.

We live in the age of transparency. I am a big fan of when we can show something live, we should show something live. But then we have to spend

time correcting the record when he says things that are not true. We have to spend time dispassionately laying out the facts.

Some people say don't that. You're just giving him more time, but the calls into that health line in Maryland, look at the Google trends today of

people searching, is it safe to do these things? If we don't call it out and correct it after it happens, the trouble will get even worse.

QUEST: John, thank you. Thank you for taking time tonight.

KING: You're welcome, my friend.

QUEST: I appreciate you coming on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, as always. Thank you, sir. As always.

Now, John was just talking about the nine states that are opening at various different degrees and fashions. Georgia is one of those states

that's reopening nail salons, hair salons, bowling alleys and gyms.

There's been a barrage of criticism, including the President of the United States about this. Atlanta's mayor has called the governor's decision to

reopen perplexing.

[15:10:21]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS, ATLANTA, GEORGIA: What I expect to see is that there are some people who simply will not listen, that they will go into

hair salons and go and get manicures and pedicures as if it's business as usual, and then what I expect is that in a couple of weeks we will see our

numbers continue to rise in the state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Martin Savidge is with me to put this into context. Martin, looking at the Georgia numbers here, they don't even meet the President's own

criteria or the administration's own criteria for being allowed to reopen. So, how is it going? Is anybody actually showing up at any of these stores?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are. It's a mix, I will say, as far as how many stores have opened. For instance, you may see the shopping

center behind me here.

There are probably a handful of stores or operations that under the guidelines of the governor could be open today. Only one of them, a hair

salon, actually did open.

When you talk to the other businesses and say, well, why didn't you decide to open? You get a myriad of answers. Some of them say it is because they

don't feel it's the right time. They feel that it is not safe for their employees. It is not safe for their customers.

Some of them say they cannot find the personal protection equipment which is required by the State of Georgia that they must have.

And others, it's because they will have to actually rework the whole interior of their work space. Say, a gym, they will have to move the

equipment to create greater social distancing.

So, there are a number of businesses. It's pretty clear where they are just taking a wait-and-see attitude. Those that were open today, the hair salons

had a regular sort of supply of people coming in, but I won't say it's been overwhelming.

The barber shop around the corner, again probably not their typical Friday haircut crowd. So, people are cautious. People are nervous. And I think

those that are showing up today are just testing the waters and a lot of people are just staying home and waiting to do so how this all works out --

Richard.

QUEST: Martin, this is an -- it's been described as an experiment. Has the governor said how quickly they would move if they discover that numbers

start to rise again?

SAVIDGE: He has not said as far as anything like shutting down or reversing course. What he said was that the information the Governor's Office had was

that there were beds that were freeing up in ICU units, that hospital emergency rooms were not seeing the kind of traffic they had been seeing.

So, he felt confident that if there was a spike or increase, that the medical facilities would have the capabilities to deal with it.

So, the next phase of this is going to be on Monday and that's when you're going to have restaurants reopen. Now, restaurants were already able to

serve carryout, but now for the first time in weeks, they'll be able to have dine-in.

They will greatly be restricted on the number of customers. There again, they'll have to move all their tables around to make for social distancing,

and there are extreme guidelines for sanitation and making sure that products are not contaminated.

But those restaurants are looking forward to at least the opportunity to give this a try. There are many people, especially in the medical

community, who fear that we won't really know how well this works until a couple of weeks and the answer could be horrific.

QUEST: Martin Savidge. Martin, thank you. Martin Savidge in Georgia with that story.

When we come back, we will look at the E.U. and how the E.U. is in a race against time to deliver on a rescue package. But the leaders can't agree.

We'll find out after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:46]

QUEST: Okay, now, European leaders are working towards coronavirus rescue package, but it is slow going and there's no sign of a full-scale agreement

yet. This agreement is on the size of the rescue package, also concerns over mounting debt piles. The Council President is urging action and once

again reminding that the E.U. must remain united.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES MICHEL, E.U. COUNCIL PRESIDENT: This fund should be of sufficient magnitude targeted toward the sectors and geographical parts of Europe most

affected and be dedicated to dealing with this unprecedented crisis.

We have therefore tasked the Commission to analyze the exact needs and to urgently come up with a proposal that's commensurate with the challenge we

are facing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now, the failure to agree has pushed down stocks. There are heavy losses in Europe, as you can see over the course of the week. The markets

were sharply down.

Joining me now to talk about it and put this into perspective, Martin Wolf, the Chief Economic Commentator at "The Financial Times." Martin, how would

you describe the European community's reaction and speed and the European Union's response?

MARTIN WOLF, CHIEF ECONOMIC COMMENTATOR, "THE FINANCIAL TIMES": Well, as I've already written, it's clear that after a little bit of a mess last

month, the E.C.B., the European Central Bank, has responded very powerfully and I think it's likely to do much more and the politicians are where I

would expect them to be -- all over the place.

There are very deep rifts among the politicians, of course, there among the countries. And I think they're going to find it very difficult to reach an

agreement, almost unconceivable that it's an agreement that will be big enough to make much difference.

QUEST: Right at the outset, the E.C.B. said it was going to be at least $1.5 trillion and the European leaders did half a billion and then another

half and then a bit more -- or a half trillion and then a bit more and a bit more and a bit more.

But at the same time, Italy is saying that the failure to help them in the response really creates an existential crisis. Do you agree with that?

WOLF: Well, my argument is, no, and the reason is that essentially the E.C.B. has now made a commitment to keep the spreads on interest rates, on

long-term bonds, government bonds, among the European countries very narrow. And that effectively amounts on an open-ended commitment to

purchase Italian government bonds if they have to.

So my view is very simple, the Italian government has been given an invitation. It should go out and run the deficit it thinks it needs in

order to manage the crisis it faces, and it is then up to the E.C.B. to respond by making sure that these bonds that it sells are affordable, that

the interest rates are very low, as effectively the E.C.B. has promised to monetize them, and there's nothing else for the Italian government to do.

It cannot not respond to this and the other governments are not going to help it. So, it's going to rely in my view on the E.C.B.

[15:20:10]

QUEST: On this question of opening up the economy, I was reading your latest writings on this, and this idea of it's not mutually exclusive one

versus the other.

But where the economics come into the equation, you're suggesting that that puts forward a lower and a slower reopening.

WOLF: Yes, I think -- basing my argument here is that for most countries there are exceptions, if they open now, Britain for example, America

clearly, we're going to have a resurgence of the number of cases. They won't be able to test and trace the quantity. It's going to be far too big.

They're going to be overwhelmed by cases, which probably means there will be another lockdown or shutdown of some kind in the future.

If, on the other hand, they have patience, get the rates down to sufficiently low levels. Nobody knows what precisely they are, but clearly

much lower than now, and they have testing capacity, they can follow the South Korean strategy of basically monitoring what's going on, testing

people, tracing to other contacts and suppressing it.

So, that will mean a longer lockdown, and the really interesting question the next month or two is which strategy do individual governments choose to

follow?

QUEST: Right. What do you make, then, of the outliers such as Georgia, which we've just been talking about and hearing about the position there,

where they have decided to open up nail salons and hair salons and gyms and the like, which would arguably seem to be on the extreme end? Can there be

any economic rationale for such behavior?

WOLF: I think -- I mean, the most interesting out there of all is Sweden, of course, which has really done this fairly determinately. So, there are

two aspects of this. One is what will, as a matter of fact, happen in terms of the incidence of the disease if they decide to do that.

We don't know. It's a very important experiment. I wrote that a week or so ago. And we might learn something from it.

And then of course, everybody knows if you do let the disease go through your country, just let it go through, there will be a vast number of cases,

probably a lot of deaths, nobody knows how many precisely, but on the other side of this, pretty well everyone will have had it and then you go back to

business as usual.

It's probably going to be several months, which are pretty painful, but maybe by September -- August-September, you'll be through it.

And the interesting thing is that we'll have some countries where everybody has had it and other countries where almost nobody has had it and it's

going to be very interesting how you open up between them.

QUEST: Finally, as we look at the economic damage, as each number comes out, I sort of give it a pinch of salt because we know it's going to be

extraordinarily bad at the moment, but if you're talking long-term economic damage, how bad do you think it's going to be?

WOLF: I think that depends entirely on how quickly economies can be reopened on either of these assumptions. Basically, I tend to think the

only rational strategy is a complete suppression.

You can open up, but you don't have any cases anymore and you monitor them or you do the Swedish thing and you just let it rip through.

Under either of those strategies, if it works well, by July, we should be reopening our economies, the economy should be recovering. It will not be

normal because there will be lots of messes around the world. It won't be a full recovery.

But by July, we can begin a reasonable recovery. This year would be massively negative, but 2021 should be a pretty good recovery then we

should get a vaccine with luck and we'll be back to normal.

That crucial question in my view is how soon we can reopen. As long as by the end of the second quarter we're generally reopening and that's a key

provision and we can stick with reopening, I think it will be a very, very deep recession, really deep.

But, with luck -- with depression, but with luck, it will turn around relatively quickly in the second half of this year and next year, so we'll

look back at it as a huge V or maybe a U, but it won't be doing the damage of anything like the great depression, even though it might be deeper.

QUEST: Martin, thank you. That's exactly what we needed to hear this evening to put it into perspective as we look towards the rest of the year.

Thank you, sir. Martin Wolf joining me from London.

Now, Spain, of course, has had its own problem. The economy was struggling before coronavirus came along. But now, with coronavirus, a group of

hospitality students have found a good and original way of keeping hunger a rest.

Scott McLean is in Madrid.

[15:25:14]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Inside this kitchen, volunteers are preparing food for Madrid's most needy. The funding comes

from World Central Kitchen, a charity started by celebrity chef Jose Andres, better known for its work in the aftermaths of floods, fires and

hurricanes.

"This is the closest we've lived to a natural disaster. A fractured economy, the consequence is the same," he says.

The meals are delivered by the Madrid Fire Department, used to responding to disasters, just not the kind that Spain is facing right now.

The coronavirus crisis that's killed well over 21,000 people in Spain has also torched a huge swath of the national economy. For many families, it's

reduced their income down to zero.

Loaded up with food, the bomberos head out to deliver. Five weeks into the lockdown, the firefighters have gotten familiar with the people they serve,

many who, until now, had been unfamiliar with the inside of a food bank.

Daisy Rivero lives with her autistic son and works full-time at a daycare center. She's been out of work for almost six weeks now.

"He doesn't understand why we can't leave. I tell him, son, at least we have food now," she says. The last financial crisis sent Spain into a long,

painful recession.

Twelve years later, before COVID-19, it was still finding its economic feet, still struggling with 13 percent unemployment and one of the highest

debt burdens in Europe.

Elizabeth Sanchez is a mother of two with a third on the way. Her husband, who works in construction, has been forced to stay home since the lockdown

began.

"It was already difficult before. Now, it's even tougher. I pray to the Lord this ends soon," she says. So far, her prayers have gone unanswered.

While Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has promised the largest stimulus package in Spanish history, he's also promised to extend the lockdown for

at least another two weeks.

Scott McLean, CNN, Madrid.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Now, some U.S. states are starting to reopen. It's created a very interesting legal question. If you do reopen and your workers fall ill with

coronavirus, as an employer are you liable? We'll discuss it after the break. This is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, live from New York.

[15:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. These little shops of South Carolina will soon be reopening -- it

will be open actually, since Monday. I beg your pardon. We'll find out the details. We'll talk to the head of the state's Chamber of Commerce.

And as South Africa tries to reopen and rebuild, we'll be talking to the President's economic adviser. Before we go any further, this is CNN. And on

this network, the news always comes first.

Some businesses have reopened in the U.S. state of Georgia, that includes gyms, salons, and massage parlors. The governor defied the advice of many

health officials and even the President in easing the lockdown. Some eligible businesses are voluntarily they're remaining closed.

The British company that makes Lysol and Dettol says its cleaning products should never be consumed under any circumstances. Reckitt Benckiser issued

a warning after President Trump suggested disinfectants could be tested as a medical treatment for Coronavirus.

The Brazilian financial markets have plummeted on Friday, after the Justice Minister Sergio Moro resigned. The widely popular anticorruption crusader

cited political interference from President Bolsonaro. Moro's departure was sparked by Bolsonaro's decision to replace the head of the Federal Police.

Amazon has lost its challenge to a ruling that led it to close its French warehouses. A Paris appeals court confirm that Amazon must stop selling

nonessential goods, while it assesses the health risks to its workers. A French labor union filed the initial complaint.

An Air France-KLM will get more than $7 billion in loans from the French government to help stay afloat. The French finance minister Bruno Le Maire

told French television there were no plans to nationalize the airlines.

Some states in the United States are starting to reopen. There have been calls by employers for protection against lawsuits from employees or

customers who catch Coronavirus and now in their stores. The National Association of Manufacturers is concerned on once legal protection.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY TIMMONS, PRESIDENT & CEO, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MANUFACTURERS: We're also going to need to see some liability reforms because not only

manufacturers, but employers all across the economy are going to be doing everything they can to do the right thing, to keep their employees safe.

And we don't, frankly, we don't need jackpot justice trial lawyers trying to take advantage of a very difficult situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: And showing how difficult the situation is (INAUDIBLE) worried all talking in South Carolina itself. There was another protest today of

honking of horns to reopen the economy sooner rather than later. The set -- the protesters demanding further moves.

Ted Pitts is with me, the president and CEO of South Carolina Chamber of Commerce and a member of the governor's Accelerate S.C. Task Force. Ted,

thank you taking time. It would seem there are now two very different forces. Those that want to reopen states and the experts who say it's

simply not the time.

If we take your own state, which has already started to allow some reopening, it doesn't even meet the White House's own guidelines in terms

of reduction in number of infections, and yet you're still reopening.

TED PITTS, PRESIDENT & CEO, SOUTH CAROLINA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE (via Skype): Yes, thank you, Richard. You know, yesterday, the governor held his first

taskforce meeting and you know, I think Dr. David Cole, who's with MUSC here in South Carolina, you know, said it best, it is time to start looking

at reopening, but we got to do that safely.

And I think that's why the governor's convened a task force and I think you're going to see him take the advice of experts as we look to reopen the

economy. We've been pushed into a recession like many other states and really other countries around the globe.

[15:35:04]

And it's time to start looking at reopening safe and those low risk activities that we can participate in and not unduly bring risk on our

citizens.

QUEST: I suppose nobody would disagree with what you've just said. It's the interpretation and execution of that. I mean, the governor of Georgia would

say the same thing, but he's reopened hair salons and nail parlors. So, where do you think the line can be drawn? Again, I say, bearing in mind,

South Carolina doesn't even meet the White House and president's current guidelines.

PITTS: Yes, Richard, I will tell you a lot of people sitting in New York City or even in Atlanta, you know, look at things through a certain prism.

Now, here in South Carolina, we don't have in New York City, we don't have in Atlanta. If you look at the statistics, you know, we've got a very low

caseload. You know, the number of deaths we had, one is too many, but they are trailing the initial projections.

So, you know, I think you can talk about keeping our economy, putting it on ice for a certain period of time, which we have done, but at some point,

it's time to start looking at what you can safely reopen. And, you know, ultimately, that's what we're trying to do here in South Carolina. You

know, citizens, you know, elderly, those are high risk, you know, need to stay home and actually, you know, we're still under a stay at home order.

But as we look to reopen things, you know, the governor and others have heard a lot about businesses that believe that they can safely operate and

protect their employees and their customers. And he put restrictions in place even on the small retail establishments, you know, two or three

people per thousand square feet, on social distancing, following CDC guidelines.

So, we've got to use common sense and, you know, I know that some folks want government to protect to everybody from themselves. But ultimately,

we've got to look at measures and we've got to look at common sense. And we've got to enforce those measures that we have in place. But we have to

start letting people use common sense as they safely tangled activities that again are low risk. The governor has not talked about opening tattoo

parlors or beauty salons.

So, there are things we can start doing and get back to some sense of normalcy. You know, the governor and the superintendent of education, Molly

Spearman, have closed schools for the year. I think that's the prudent thing to do. But we have to look at everything as we look to reopen our

economy and try to come out of this recession that we found ourselves in.

QUEST: Do you think judging from the people you've talked to, on a wider issue, it's always good to talk to people like yourself who are at the

heart of a business in a state. Is it your view, that when things reopen, there will be a lot of collateral left, the damage? Or do you see that

there could be a V-shaped sort of recovery?

PITTS: You know, I think the projections, you know, they flattened out. You know, I think we know, as we reopen activities, that more people would be

infected than if they were at home, you know, locked in their houses. So, I think there's a balance and I think every hospital that that we've talked

to, you know, every business that we've talked to, there's going to be metrics in place. And if we see a spike, you know, we're going to have to

shut things down, again.

So, I think ultimately, we want to -- we -- the governor very prudently, slowly close things down in a process. And I think you'll see the state

slowly open things back, you know, starting at those low risk activities, and if we see a problem, you know, I can tell you, I know the governor will

step in and look at -- introducing additional measures to try to keep us safe.

QUEST: Ted, finally, the business environment in South Carolina, the -- are companies in as good as -- I mean, how do you think companies will fare

when the state reopens? Will there be business? Will the business with cover quite quickly, do you think?

PITTS: No, it will not recover quickly. You know, we've seen, you know, unemployment numbers over the last month increased by 350,000 initial

claims and that's a large number in a -- in a state of basically 5 million people. You know, we've seen our tourism industry, which is a big part of

our economy is off 87 percent. You know, and we're hopeful that, you know, folks are going to travel, drive, you know, destinations.

So, South Carolina will be one of those destinations that they look at, manufacturing, which is a big key component of our economy. You know, about

14 percent of those unemployment claims are from the manufacturing sector as plants have shut down because, you know, of concerns. And hopefully, as

they reopen back up, you know they need a customer on the other end.

[15:40:09]

So, whatever they're making up, they're making BMWs or airplanes or tires, whatever they're making, there has to be a customer and demand there. So, I

guess there is a concern. I've talked to our leadership at the board down in Charleston. And you know, there is a concern that this is going to be --

take us a while to get out of and it's going to be a slow recovery and not a quick recovery.

QUEST: Ted, I'm grateful for you coming in, talking to us tonight. So, let's make an arrangement that we'll speak again before this is over, so I

can gauge how the opening is going. I appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Now --

PITTS: Thank you, Richard.

QUEST: -- after the break, we go from South Carolina to South Africa. We'll be talking to President Ramaphosa's economic adviser, about how South

Africa hopes to reopen slowly at first, but the damage, how bad it's been, in a moment. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: South Africa is starting the process to gradually reopen the economy. It will be a slow and long process. From May the 1st, some

businesses will be allowed to restart. The government announced a $26 billion stimulus plan along with other measures. And the President says the

crisis is an opportunity as well as a challenge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CYRIL RAMAPHOSA, PRESIDENT, SOUTH AFRICA: We are resolved not to merely return our economy to where it was between -- before the Coronavirus. But

to forge a new economy in a new global reality. Our economic strategy going forward will require a new social compact amongst all role players,

business, labor, community and government to restructure the economy and to achieve inclusive growth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Trudi Makhaya is the President's economic adviser to South Africa. She joins me now. Thank you, Ma'am, for joining me. The -- listening to the

plan, I mean, thank God it would seem that South Africa has dodged the worst potential of the crisis. Can you say that you are out of the woods

yet?

TRUDI MAKHAYA, ECONOMIC ADVISER TO SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT RAMAPHOSA (via Skype): I think -- thank you, Richard, for having me on your show.

[15:45:06]

It's not easy to ever say that you're out of the woods, but it's clear that our approach to having a strict lockdown for, you know, a significant

amount of time, that gave us some breathing room to ensure that we jack up our infrastructure, we come up with systems to think about how to sanitize

public spaces, how to gradually reopen the economy.

So, all told, by the 1st of May, we would have had 35 days of lockdown. And then we would move to a risk-based system where we would, you know, move to

a lower level, level four we call it, versus level five which is total lockdown. And over time, guided by evidence, we will change and adjust

accordingly.

But I think in terms of planning and giving some time to properly consider and to ramp up the response. I think we've used that time, and hopefully,

it will ensure that you don't see the worst that were prepared for when infection rates have increased.

QUEST: What help do you need from the international community? Because the G7, the G20, the IMF, the World Bank, they've all put programs in place,

but I'm wondering how they will be -- how you can take advantage of them. Do you need debt relief? Do you need loans on concessionary terms? What is

it you need?

MAKHAYA: I think it's a full range. You know, South Africa is a G20 member. And you know, using all the platforms we have, holding the E.U. presidency,

we've been arguing very strongly for our own country, but for the continent, the African continent as a whole, that much like climate change,

you know, this is a global pandemic. There should be a global response that looks into our economies, and ensure that we're able to survive this and

we're able to emerge on a stronger footing.

So, it would start with support in terms of concessional relief that has been offered by the international financial institutions, concessional

relief that acknowledges that we don't have much fiscal space, and we need to be able to access money at a very affordable rate at this time. It also

includes debt standstills and other measures of debt relief, that will ensure that money is directed -- is directed towards the health and

economic response in the short term, and not to debt.

So, we've argued for a debt standstill. We've argued for support from ranging from 100, it could go up to $200 billion of support for the

continent.

QUEST: What assurance can you give, bearing in mind South Africa's past, that any of the aid, and any of the money will be properly directed and

won't be siphoned off? I normally wouldn't ask this question, but if you look at this history of the country, particularly under state capture, it's

entirely legitimate to us to make sure that such a large stimulus plan and external help doesn't go missing.

MAKHAYA: So, Richard, we're putting a significant part of our own resources as a country, into the stimulus. It's not about aid. Of course, we'll be

tapping into concessional financing. I think our President has been very clear that, you know, state capacity, ensuring that we have a strong state

that delivers, is key to his economic program and to his agenda of governance as a whole. We had investigations into state capture, into

malfeasance and, you know, the PIC, the revenue authority.

So, we've had investigations. We understand the scale of the problem. There are remedial measures in place, and there are also prosecutions to follow

to ensure that this doesn't happen again. So, I think when rebuilding the system, we're ensuring that our governance goes back to what it was, you

know, 10, 15 years ago.

Trudi, thank you. Thank you for giving us time. I appreciate it. Busy times for all. And I'm grateful that you did. When we come back after the break,

one of London's best clubs, most famous clubs for arts and -- is trying its very best to stay open in some shape or form. We'll be with the Phoenix

Arts Club after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:00]

QUEST: We go to London tonight for the "VOICE OF THE CRISIS" to the Phoenix Art Club in London Soho West End. The show must go on. The place may be

closed, but in an effort to raise money for the staff, they're putting a cabaret online.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell you what, all this stuff makes you want to try a tricky trick. Let's try a tricky trick. Here we go. Yes, that's quite a

(INAUDIBLE) getting out of this one either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Excellent. Now, Ken Wright, who's a good friend of mine as well as the managing director of the Phoenix Arts Club. He joins me now. I think I

joined you in the club at the moment. How have you been using to the best advantage to help those staff who clearly have been badly affected because

the club is closed?

KEN WRIGHT, MANAGING DIRECTOR, THE PHOENIX ARTS CLUB: Hello, Richard, lovely to see you. I hope you're feeling better. Thank you for thinking

you're in the club, but it just proves that our subterfuge has worked. You're actually in my flat, which is where we host our virtual shows. And

just to clarify, our staff are safe. We have furloughed our staff.

What we can't do is help our freelancers, not through formal government sources. So, this is all to keep our freelancers earning in some way.

Because without it, they would be lost. They'd have nothing.

QUEST: And what's been the reaction to online cabaret on the weekend?

WRIGHT: Well, I think when this is all over, Richard, there's going to be a number of people from manufacture cameras for telephones and alike. They've

got quite a lot of answering to do. The first two, three weeks, we were beset with technical problems, we kind of think we're on top of it now. The

thing to remember is that I think you showed a clip of a juggler that came from Australia. That's how we were been stretching it. He's a regular act,

but he'd gone home to Australia prior to this virus kicking in.

So, he did that in his back garden in Australia. So, this is what we're doing. We just want the acts to have ability to remain in the public eye.

And for our customers to understand that we haven't gone away, we're still here. And we still aim to bring them the quality acts that they expect of

us.

QUEST: Ken, how difficult is it going to be for you to keep going? I mean, I know you've had help from the landlord, does have different other schemes

as well. But will you -- will you be able to keep going when it -- will you -- will you still be there under the theater when it's all over?

WRIGHT: We're in our 32nd year. Richard, there's been some angels and demons. We've had some surprising assistance. Our local authority has been

great. The government furloughing wages has helped immensely. Our landlord is a small London landlord. He's doing his best. He's got his problems as

well.

[15:55:13]

WRIGHT: There are some villains, the insurance company. Well, I won't be hosting an insurance company's Christmas party anytime soon. But the bank,

NatWest, have moved heaven and earth for us. I'm really, really grateful. I know that's unusual to hear at these times. But now, we really, really have

helped us. We are going to be there of all the gin joints, and all the times, and all the world. I hope you're going to pop into mind when this is

all over.

QUEST: Well, that's you know, I'm making a bit of a history here, like promising to visit everywhere. But I have to say, yours is one place that I

can say I will visit. Absolutely. It's a regular of mine when I'm in London. I wish you well. Give my best to Colin and the team and everybody

there, Ken. And hopefully, Ken, one quick thought, what's the best sort of cabaret that works best online?

WRIGHT: Anything that's got lots of movement, people -- your audience is looking at me now and I'm terrified to move. But we need lots of movement.

We have one tomorrow night, 10:00. It starts in British summer time, 10:00 Saturday night, who's using indoor fireworks. Now, that's going to be our

first. I'm looking forward to that.

QUEST: Indoor fireworks. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Ken Wright at the Phoenix Arts Club, which I shamelessly and happy to plug

as being one of the finest institutions in London for entertainment in cabaret, and a place where I've been to on more than one occasion. Thank

you very much. Ken, have a good one.

Now, that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. A look -- a quick look at the market as to how it's going to close for the week. The Dow Jones

industrials, it's going to be (INAUDIBLE) I'm pleased to say, after a difficult, sort of, day overall. But all the three major markets are up,

the best of the day goes to the NASDAQ, up 1-1/3 percent. There's the Dow 30. Only three at the bottom. Boeing, having a bad day. The rest of them

all up quite strongly.

And that is a quick, profitable moment. Just a very quick one. We've made it to the end of another week, working from home in the Coronavirus

pandemic. That's all you need to say as we head into the weekend. That's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever

you're up to in the hours ahead, here we go, I hope it's profitable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. The death toll in the United States this afternoon now reaching what was once an

unthinkable number. More than 50,000 people in the United States lost to Coronavirus. To put this in perspective, at this hour, a month ago, that

number was 646 dead. Health experts cautioned the actual death toll is a sure -- surely much higher than 50,000. Exactly two months ago President

Trump tweeted quote, The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA.

END