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Quest Means Business
Oxford Team Hopes To Have Vaccine Test Results By Mid-June; Dubai Mega Mall Reopens Under New Safeguards; Amazon Goes On Hiring As Worker Safety Under Scrutiny; Musicians Performing Online As Crisis Ends Live Gigs; E.C.B. President, Christine Lagarde Says They Are Still In Firefighting Mode; U.S. Weekly Jobless Claims Rise By 3.8 Million; Subway CEO Defends Franchisees Taking Payroll Protection Loan. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 30, 2020 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:13]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Stocks in the red after yesterday's strong gains, but it's a down day on the Wall Street
so far. Looking at the numbers, you can see the sea of red has been there all day. One and a half percent off. No particular, perhaps, reason other
than that the markets are in such good gains, and there are doubts about the efficacy or validity of many of the claims in vaccines.
Anyway, those are the markets and these are the reasons why.
France and Italy fall into recession, at the same time as the E.C.B. announces new rates and new measures, the E.C.B. President, Christine
Lagarde says they're still in firefighting mode.
Millions and millions of more Americans are out of jobs. I'll be speaking to the CEO of Subway in just a moment about the PPP and the way in which
their franchisees got some things.
And AstraZeneca is working with Oxford University on a coronavirus vaccine. The claim that they supposedly have the best chances of success.
Live from New York, last day of April, it is April the 30th. I'm Richard Quest and of course, I mean business.
Good evening. Christine Lagarde, the President of E.C.B. is warning that the bank is still in crisis and firefighting mode at the same time as the
Eurozone and E.U. countries announced which ones are in recession.
Europe, of course, GDP is down three and a half percent, quarter-on- quarter. Remember, it's quarter-on-quarter as opposed to the way the U.S. does it which is quarter-on-quarter seasonally adjusted on an annualized
basis.
Their GDP is down three and a half percent Q-on-Q. Italy, Spain and France are down even more than that. And Christine Lagarde says there's even worse
to come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE LAGARDE, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK: The Euro Area is facing an economic contraction of magnitude and speed that are
unprecedented in peacetime.
We will use any and all flexibility that we have in accordance with our mandate in order to make sure that our monetary policy is properly
transmitted to all jurisdictions from East to West, from North to South.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Anna Stewart is with me. Anna, this was very grim faced President of the bank, Christine Lagarde, not surprising, but if we look underneath
the statement, what other measures are they taking?
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: It was an interesting one, actually, Richard. First of all, it was the PAP Program, the Pandemic Asset Purchase Program -
- a bit of a mouthful.
We were wondering whether that would get increased or whether they would change up what assets are included in it. Now, nothing on that yet, but
they are open to it.
So, that made certainly certain -- lots and lots of people very happy. Lots of liquidity actually. Lots on bank lending. We had news on the TLTRO III,
cheaper financing for banks at minus one percent, but also a whole new round called a PELTRO -- Pandemic Emergency Longer Term Refinancing
Operations. Again, another mouthful. Very interesting, it is non-targeted. So, that's just it will kind of encourage banks to borrow sovereign bonds.
Now that could lead to problems further down the line.
For me, one of the most interesting lines was actually in the Q&A, where Christina Lagarde said she will not tolerate monetary fragmentation, which
suggests that she'll have a big focus on those bond yields, quite a turnaround from what she said in the last press conference --Richard.
QUEST: Now, what does she mean when she said she won't tolerate monetary fragmentation?
STEWART: Well, this is the thing, you have to wonder whether perhaps they will target yields at a certain rate going forward. That certainly was some
economists have wanted to see the E.C.B. do. It's something that we saw with the Bank of Japan a few years ago.
Now, there was no further detail on that. But considering in the last press conference, Christine Lagarde said it wasn't E.C.B.'s job to close the
spread and actually cause that spread to widen. She then apologized for it.
So, absolute reversal on those terms. You know what? I do think that the E.C.B., while it will never be able to do entirely enough, it'll keep
having to do more, certainly, if you look at the Italian bond yield given that there was a credit rating downgrade this week, it has actually held up
pretty strong and it did throughout today.
So, I do feel like, at best, I just feel the E.C.B. is doing enough for now.
QUEST: But has the argument about monetary financing i.e., the E.C.B., which I think is against them, it's against the mandate buying directly
from Central Bank, so from individual Central Banks is still not allowed, even though that's pretty much what the Bank of England is doing in the
U.K. with the U.K. Treasury.
[15:05:07]
STEWART: And it's something that often gets held up, I think in the German courts. Listen, we're in a whole new territory. And still the mandate of
the E.C.B. is price stability. But this is why it was so interesting, that Q&A, the idea that she may be more focused on these bond yield spreads.
It makes me think that perhaps the E.C.B., without saying it is exploring expanding that mandate. These are extraordinary times, and Christine
Lagarde said, looking ahead to this year, GDP could fall five to 12 percent across the board for the Eurozone.
So, I think they'll be willing to do whatever it takes, but they may not ever tell us whether they really are changing that mandate or maybe it's
just in the outlook and the instruments they use.
QUEST: Anna Stewart in London, thank you. Now, there are sobering numbers in the United States. It's the weekly jobless claims numbers.
This week, it was 3.8 million new jobless over the previous week, which means 30 million new claims since mid-March, as rates are struggling to
keep up, the rents and mortgages for many are due tomorrow.
On the line, Julia Coronado, and the President and founder of Macro Policy Perspectives. Julia Coronado, the number -- I mean, I hate to say it, but
sort of the jobless claims are on par with where they were expected to be. The issue is not how many are made jobless now, it's how many will be
reemployed and at which speed once the U.S. economy reopens?
JULIA CORONADO, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, MACRO POLICY PERSPECTIVES (via phone): Well, I think both are really important. I mean, I think the
number of people getting separated from their jobs right now tells us something about the reach of the disruption to the economy, the depth and
extent of it and that is important to understand.
It's good that we have pretty generous unemployment insurance in place to create a buffer for these people. And then as you say, the most critical
thing will be reconnecting people to employers on the way out and it's disconcerting as the earning season progresses to see how many companies,
you know, yes, they're doing temporary furloughs, they're also planning for permanent reductions in force.
So, we know that this is not going to be a V-shaped, this is probably going to be a long slog, even as many employees do reconnect as the third quarter
progresses.
QUEST: Now, the Fed this week basically didn't come up with much new other than to say, you know, the priority was to get the existing plans and
various facilities actually up and running more efficiently and effectively, which begs the question, what more for the Fed?
CORONADO: Well, yes, I mean, the Fed has already done a lot. What they learned from the last crisis was go big early, and they did and they have
been.
So, in terms of quantitative easing, purchases of Treasury and mortgage bonds, they've been doing a tremendous amount and continue to engage in QE.
They've got rates at zero, and now, it's sort of rushing to get the credit facilities up and running and pushing money into the economy through those
facilities.
So, they have a lot of work cut out for them. So nothing new, but lots of work in a big uphill battle to get that money out as quickly as they
possibly can to as many people and businesses.
CARLSON: Well, what worries you most, Julia? I mean, knowing the awful position that the U.S. economy is in for understandable reasons, it has
been deliberately shut down. What's now the major economic concern that you can see knowing that scenario?
CORONADO: I think there's a couple of concerns. One, the fragmentation of the response. So, we know that really the economy can't, quote-unquote "get
back to normal" until people have confidence in their public safety.
So, it's not just a matter of declaring businesses can open, it's, what are the protocols that they need to follow to ensure the safety of not only
their workers, but their customers?
And we're starting to see businesses be more proactive along those lines in the absence of a coordinated public health response from the government,
and that's promising.
But we really are going to need to be very aggressive announcements from businesses to get people comfortable with going to a movie theater or
getting on a plane.
Right now, I don't think we're there given that the disease is still progressing even though we've flattened the curve. That doesn't mean we
have stopped infection, so people still are getting the disease and dying of the disease in huge numbers and I think that the public confidence is at
quite a fragile state and we really need to keep that confidence and shore it up in coming months to get people to go back to spending their money.
[15:10:09]
QUEST: Julia, thank you. Julia Coronado, joining me. Have a good weekend, and I trust all as well.
Now, the Fed is expanding its lending program to larger companies. That of course follows the furor that has been over the small PPP plan that's been
taking place.
Now, Subway, the sandwich maker, has been taking advantage to keep staff on payroll. It's doing it through its 10,700 franchisees. More than 90 percent
of which asked for government support. They meet the criteria of fewer than 500 employees. And the average Subway owner, franchise holder has two
branches or two operations.
John Chidsey is the Chief Executive of Subway. He joins me now. John, thank you, sir. You're obviously well versed and familiar with this because
you've obviously -- you've defended for the right of Subway franchisees to take part in PPP.
But I wonder where you have a fit -- do you agree that where there are essentially corporate affiliates with multiple venues that are getting
through by the dodge of the numbers under 500 in one location, those larger corporate affiliates should not be allowed to take part in PPP?
JOHN CHIDSEY, CHIEF EXECUTIVE, SUBWAY (via Skype): I think Richard, it's probably where you draw the line as you as you correctly pointed out,
we have 10,700 franchisees just in the U.S. We have 20,000 franchisees globally.
You know, we're the largest restaurant chain in the world. We are the largest restaurant chain in the U.S. as well, and as you correctly said, we
are the ultimate mom and pop. Everybody is out there just entrepreneurs that have one to two restaurants. So, you know, they really are the small
ones.
You know, some of these larger chains where they have, you know, operators with 400, eight hundred to a thousand units or they are publicly traded
companies, some franchisees are even publicly traded companies. I mean, that's a different story.
Where do you draw the line? I mean, that that's a fair debate. And I'm not sure when you're trying to get money out the door as fast as possible to
save not just the U.S. economy, but economies around the globe. You know that's a tough call to make on how you differentiate each brand, how many
franchisees --
QUEST: John, the argument, of course, is that those are the companies have access to different lines of funding and finance that should be used
first, whether it be debt, whether it be equity, shareholder, whatever.
Let's address that argument to yourself and to the ability of Subway to assist your franchisees. Now, I'm not saying necessarily shovel cash
towards them, but what have you been able to do to assist your franchisees through this?
CHIDSEY: Yes, that's a great question, Richard. So, first of all, yes, we are a private company, Subway. We're not a public company. But there's lots
of things we can do. We've worked with a lot of our partners, our beverage partners like Coca-Cola, Pepsi around the world, Frito Lay, a lot of our
smaller vendors who have helped us put funds together to help the system restart in terms of providing cash to distribution -- to distributors, to
food suppliers.
The company, Subway, itself has worked on either deferring or waiving royalties. We tried to give as much financial relief as possible. So, you
know, there's a whole assortment of things we're doing to make sure our franchisees -- in addition to what governments are doing -- to make sure
they have the cash they need to both stay open, and then to restart as the economy comes back.
QUEST: You see, it's classic, isn't it? It really is, sir, I mean, you have every viable interest and vested interest in your franchisees being in
a position to reopen safely when it happens. You need them and they need you. How possible is it going to be for most of your franchisees where they
haven't already stayed open to reopen?
CHIDSEY: Yes, I think the vast majority of them will. You know, a lot of them that have closed, Richard, have been ones that are, as you can
imagine, in colleges or universities or maybe malls, where they had no choice or in certain European countries, as you know, they just required
you to shut down whether you wanted to do third party delivery or takeout. It was just a complete shutdown.
So, I actually am very confident. I think the vast, vast majority of the ones that are close will actually reopen.
QUEST: What will happen do you think, to some -- to the hospitality, the restaurant business as we reopen, and nobody just knows; I mean, nobody
knows if social distancing and restaurants is a viable of suggestion or proposal. Nobody knows how quickly consumers will feel able to go back out
again.
You've been in the business a long time, sir, no disrespect on age at you, but what's your gut feeling telling you about how it will go?
[15:15:10]
CHIDSEY: Well, I think you're right. If you're in a restaurant that's only in-room dining, nobody has a crystal ball. I think we're -- QSR is ideally
positioned to succeed here.
As you know, if you're a drive-thru business, 65 percent of your business goes through a drive-thru even in normal times. Now, it's even higher. But
you know, you look at a chain like Subway where a lot of it is third-party delivery, takeout, catering. All of those trends are accelerating even
before coronavirus. And I just think those trends are going to continue to accelerate.
I think the in-room dining, you know, it's a great question, when will it recover? Will it really ever recover? So, you know, luckily, we're
positioned like a lot of other QSR changes, I said, with multiple chance.
QUEST: Good to have you with us, sir. Thank you very much. We'll talk about again. Very grateful that you've given us time today. One of the --
obviously, the largest restaurant and the largest food provider in the world. It's good to have you on the program, sir.
When we come back, of all the industries that have been beset and hit hard, hospitality is one and of course, aircraft and aviation, we talk a lot
about it, and the airline industry after the break. We'll also talk to the Tourism Ministers to see exactly what it is they think they can provide.
After the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Of course, the world's major airlines are faring very badly in this current crisis and the numbers are starting to really reflect exactly
how bad the situation is with the travel industry on hold.
American Airlines is, for instance, saying the situation is far worse than expected with more than $2 billion in losses on the quarter. Japan Airlines
is saying it's no longer going to offer a dividend for the foreseeable future. Qantas has cut capacity and will continue to create cutting of
capacity, and Norwegian says most flights canceled until next summer. And there is the entire possibility of course, that Norwegian still may not be
able to refinance and go out of business.
On-board, airlines are rolling out new policies to keep passengers and of course, the flying crew safe, and it all leads to one thing, flying will
never be quite the same again.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST (voice over): Social distancing and air travel are contradictions in terms with long queues, evaporating leg room and invasive reclining, air
travel is particularly ill-suited for our new coronavirus reality.
[15:20:04]
QUEST (voice over): The pandemic has left global travel at a virtual standstill, and it is clear the way we fly will need to change before
passengers will feel comfortable returning to the friendly skies en mass.
Before the crisis, there was this massive drive to maximize capacity onboard, pushing the flying public ever closer together.
Now, airlines must embrace the exact opposite. At the very least, it seems the middle seat will probably stay empty for the foreseeable future, even
though that will make it almost impossible for airlines to make money.
The International Air Transport Association CEO, Alexandre de Juniac says ticket prices will have to go up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDRE DE JUNIAC, CEO, INTERNATIONAL AIR TRANSPORT ASSOCIATION: In these conditions, there is no airline which is able to fly and make money
on these flights. So, it means two things, either we cannot or we have to increase the price of the tickets by at least 50 to 100 percent.
So, it is the end of cheap travel for everyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST (voice over): Airlines are ramping up other precautions. On JetBlue, Air Canada, Korean and Lufthansa, masks will be mandatory for the duration
of flights.
Emirates is limiting carry-on baggage to only the essentials. Meals are doled out in bento-style boxes to reduce contact.
Even the in-flight magazines have been removed from seat back pockets in case they carry the virus.
Expect to see cabin crews donning visors and gowns. Full personal protection equipment could be the order of the day. And Qatar Airways says
it's doing thermal screenings of its crew.
In spite of all these measures, Barry Diller, the head of Expedia believes flying and social distancing are simply incompatible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARRY DILLER, CHAIRMAN, EXPEDIA: The idea that you can take the middle seat out of an airplane and have any kind of, quote, "social distancing" is
absurd. You can't. It does not work.
Social distancing works when it's complete, you can maybe clean planes better. Yes, that would be good anyway. But social distancing in these
kinds of arenas is a myth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST (voice over): The Italian cabin design firm, Aveo Interiors gave us a glimpse of what the future could look like.
This shield could be fitted on existing seats, putting a barrier between passengers to increase isolation. A more extreme interior overhaul turns
the middle seat around entirely to keep contact between passengers at a minimum.
To be sure, the travel industry will reopen and we will take to the air again. However, for passengers like you and me, the experience we go
through, may never be quite the same again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Now countries like the Maldives rely extensively, of course, on tourism. It's an island nation and getting there requires airlift and air
support, of course. You can see there from the map, just the difficulties there.
Tourism there accounts for 28 percent of the GDP and the hotels are empty, except for some guests who can't go home because of quarantines in their
own countries, and of course, they can't leave the island unless it's on a repatriation flight.
Ali Waheed is the Tourism Minister of the Maldives. He joins me now.
Good to have you, sir. Look, Minister, how many people have you still got there that can't leave either because their home country won't let them in
or there's no flights? How many are still with you?
ALI WAHEED, TOURISM MINISTER, MALDIVES (via Skype): We still -- thank you so much, Richard -- we still have more than 500 tourists in the
country. Out of them we have almost hundred stranded, who would have ended up in the airport, but we are keeping in the Dream Island where the
government is looking after them. So, hopefully still, we are able to manage the situation here.
QUEST: So, the government is picking up the bill for these tourists to basically -- to continue stay in one of the major resorts.
WAHEED: People who cannot afford, yes, the government of Madives is taking care of them because we believe that they are like locals, they are
our people. They are the people who has brought this country to where it is now, so we can only revive the tourism and we can only prevail the
situation along with our guests and our people.
QUEST: Last night on the program, the Greek Tourism Minister was talking to us about the need for common standards before tourism, so that you don't
have a race to the bottom, you don't have some countries deciding to do things on the cheap or cut corners.
[15:25:09]
QUEST: How important -- because you're a luxury destination and people are going to want to know exactly that it's safe. So, how important for you
is it that the industry either through WTTC or UNWTO does come up with some common standards.
WAHEED: It is very important for a destination like ours and we are since December 31, we have prepared for the situation and we are also working
with UNWTO to ensure that when borders open, we will also open up once the situation is controlled and stable.
Right now we are in the middle of the storm and we are taking it steadfast and timely to ensure that once the dust is settled, the borders will be
open hopefully in the third quarter which is from July to September, and right now we are managing the situation to make sure that Maldives once
again will be the safest and the most beautiful destination to visit when you travel tomorrow.
QUEST: I get -- I get all of that, Minister, but reality tells us that you're not going to get anywhere near the numbers, if only because there's
not the airlift, the airlift won't have come back to create that, let alone hotels.
So, I ask you, what plans can you put in place to help mitigate that and prepare for that time when tourists will come back?
WAHEED: We are doing already sessions and in May, we will be forwarding this to the Cabinet at the Parliament to ensure that once the borders are
open, we have the WTO guidelines in place and make sure that the airports to the tourist resorts that their travel is -- the safety is ensured for
their wellbeing and naturally, I must say that we are blessed with scattered islands which is a good thing for a country like us because you
are -- even in these islands isolated and you are safe because you're not mixed with others.
So we are a country with scattered islands, and that's the beauty and the safety of this destination. And hopefully, we will kick start and restart
our industry in the third quarter, depending on the stability that we bring in controlling the disease right now.
QUEST: Minister, thank you, particularly thank you for staying up so late tonight. It is midnight where you are, in your part of the world.
Thank you, sir, for staying up late to talk to us. I appreciate it.
And I look forward to talking to you again, as your reopening continues. Thank you, sir.
WAHEED: Thank you, sir.
QUEST: Now, as QUEST MEANS BUSINESS continues on this evening, we will talk about vaccines. There are dozens, I mean dozens of vaccines currently
under investigation and in research at various different levels of trials. Who is going to win the race? The vaccine race, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:30:00]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. We're going to hear from
the -- from the CEO of Gavi about the race to find a vaccine, and try to understand exactly who he is in the front of that race, who's likely to win
it. And Silicon Valley bosses are clashing over the lockdowns and the closures. Elon Musk versus Mark Zuckerberg, the two men have very different
views on exactly the way forward. We'll talk about that after I've given the new -- I've given you the news headlines because this is CNN. And on
this network, the news always comes first.
The British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has held his first Coronavirus briefing since contracting the virus. He says the U.K. is past the peak of
the Coronavirus pandemic. He promised to lay out a plan next week on how the country will restart its economy. The outbreak has killed nearly 27,000
people in the U.K. Russia's Prime Minister says he's tested positive for the virus. He shared his diagnosis during a video conference with Vladimir
Putin. (INAUDIBLE) state T.V. Russia suppose 200,000 confirmed cases on Thursday.
French Ligue 1 has crowned Paris Saint-Germain champions of 2019-'20 football season. 10 rounds were left unplayed. When French officials told
sports teams not to restart their seasons. PSG dedicated the title to healthcare and frontline workers.
Oxford University which is widely regarded as being perhaps in the lead in terms of searching for a vaccine has teamed up with AstraZeneca in its
quest to get multiple applications. Now, the partnership allows AstraZeneca to use its technology to mass produce vaccines for Oxford if works.
Hundreds of volunteers, humans volunteers were given the vaccine last week. The doctors hope to have the results by mid-June. AstraZeneca shares are at
one percent. That's outpacing Pfizer, GSK since the outbreak.
Seven vaccines are currently in testing on humans. And (INAUDIBLE) biologics are at phase two. And if you look again at that map or that
chart, showing you of the way the share prices have moved, you get to see how those share prices have literally bounced around, according to the
possibilities. Those little spikes and peaks and drops, the spikes as to how they have done. Now, I'm joined now by Seth Berkley, the CEO of Gavi,
The Vaccine Alliance. So, when I say that Oxford is in the lead, in a sense, is the furthest with the most promise. Would you agree?
SETH BERKLEY, CEO, GAVI, THE VACCINE ALLIANCE (via Skype): Well, I think it is hard to call the race at this point, and in fact, it's changing so
quickly, Richard, you said seven vaccines. There are now eight vaccines in clinical trials, and another 94 vaccines in the race. Last time we talked,
it was less than half of that. And some people actually think there's double the numbers I've just told you about in the pre-clinical side.
QUEST: So, I mean, we heard at Oxford because of a variety of reasons unrelated to this. We're already ahead in the game on Coronavirus vaccines
anyway. If they do, if their current trials are after being reviewed and successful by June, I mean, give me a straight yes or no in a sense, is it
possible to have a vaccine available by autumn this year?
BERKLEY: Well, first of all, it depends what you mean by possible. So, the challenge is that the first set of trials are going to look to see does
this give a good immune response? You know, do you need multiple doses of the vaccine? That's going to be the first question. Then, you have to see
if it works.
[15:35:06]
Could we figure out if everything worked perfectly, that it worked in healthy people by the autumn, by the end of the year? Yes, we could. Now
traditionally, vaccine development is not a direct line, there's ups and downs, you have to test it, it doesn't work, you have to change things. And
so, you know, the getting to efficacy normally takes some time. Normally, it's five to 10 years, but that hopefully is going to be really
accelerated. But from that point, it still does have to be scaled up and licensed. But of course, in Ebola, we did use vaccines during that interim
period. From the time we figured out that they work until the time they were licensed. We were able to roll it out and immunized 300,000 people in
the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and therefore, be able to protect those people even though the vaccine wasn't licensed.
QUEST: Right. There's another sort of more insidious problem, isn't there? That even if everything goes according to plan, I know that you and Gavi
are particularly concerned that a successful vaccine might either be protected from export by its host country, so for domestic consumption, or
it could be horded at home, and the developing world which couldn't afford it would be most at risk.
BERKLEY: Of course, I'm worried about that. This is a global problem and needs a global solution. And if we have large reservoirs of virus anywhere
on the world, they threaten the rest of the world. Look at what happened with this virus. It started in around Wuhan, China, and it went to 190
countries in four months. That's the nature of infectious disease. So, what we need to do is make sure there's enough vaccine available for everyone.
But we also need to make sure that we can compare all the vaccines because the U.K. doesn't want the best vaccine in the U.K. It wants the best
vaccine in the world, as does the people in Africa, whether it's from China, the U.S., you know, France, you want to get the best product out
there, and then producing enough quantities to make it available to everyone.
QUEST: If you look at the -- I mean, from a purely business and economic perspective, all these vaccines -- I mean, even if they are successful,
they would not succeed commercially, would they?
BERKLEY: Well, I mean, at the end of the day, you and I and the people who can afford it, would pay a lot for a vaccine. But what we have to do is
control the epidemic, so we can reopen the world back up. And to do that, that means we have to vaccinate not only well-off people, but we have to
vaccinate not well-off people. That's why, to me, the initial phases in a pandemic, we have to think of vaccines as a global public good. We're going
to need public funds to be able to produce this in enough quantities for the entire world. And by the way, it may be more than one vaccine, we may
need a different vaccine for the elderly, because sometimes it's hard to have an immune response there, and maybe a different vaccine for kids or
pregnant women. Hopefully, it's one vaccine for the world but we don't yet know that.
QUEST: Seth, I'm always grateful when I talk to you, because you really do put into perspective why for those of us who are not in the business like
myself, we think it's oh so straightforward but your point right -- you point out the difficulties. Thank you, sir.
The difficulty, of course, in opening up an economy is how you go about it. When you're in Dubai and you decide to open up the -- one of the largest
malls in the world, you've got an entire different set of issues and run. Dubai is rightly proud of the largest mall in the world. And John Defterios
went to see it being reopened.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: If there's a groundzero for Dubai's reopening, it's here. The Dubai Mall in the shadow of the Burj
Khalifa, the world's tallest tower is cautiously coming back to life. In the first week on the road back to normality, retailer Nilesh Ved with
nearly 1800 stores around the region, says the UAE is taking the right approach.
NILESH VED, CHAIRMAN, APPAREL GROUP: I mean, the mentality is very clear health before business or economy, right? And once they -- we fix that is
the right time now to fix the economy and we move forward.
DEFTERIOS: But the balances, right?
VED: The balance is 100 percent, right.
DEFTERIOS: This entire complex takes in more than 80 million people a year, about a quarter million per day. But in this new COVID reality, it's
limited to 30 percent of normal capacity, and so far, we're nowhere near it. After being in an extended 24-hour lockdown period, the brash Emirate
is showing extreme caution. At the mall, temperature checks on entry, mandatory masks, social distancing, and no visitors over the age of 60. The
opening is a message to the outside world that this Emirate, which built his reputation on both structures, can start to rise again. COVID-19 has
undermined consumer spending and knocked the legs out from underneath the oil market.
[15:40:09]
While neighboring Abu Dhabi sits atop most of the oil revenues, Dubai and the Middle East in general, remain overly dependent on the wealth it
created. The IMF is projecting that this region will see oil revenues drop by more than $250 billion in 2020. And a quick snap back is not likely.
CAROLE NAKHLE, CEO, CRYSTAL ENERGY: We saw over the last few weeks this goes beyond anybody's expectations. But I fear that the -- that the region
is going to remain hostage to lower oil prices for a longer period, and this rapid recovery, for me, came a little bit as a -- as a surprise.
VED: John, a new normal is abnormal. As long as we understand that, we're going to have this ups and downs, we'll be OK. And people are thinking
there's going to be a straight line. It's not going to be.
DEFTERIOS: Through the years, this region has faced many, many challenges. The Iran-Iraq war, the Gulf War, oil and property bust, but categorically,
business leaders say this global pandemic is in a league of its own. John Defterios, CNN, Dubai.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: In just a moment, Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk don't agree on much. And that seemingly also includes the lockdown and the withdrawal, and how
long it should go on. After the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Extraordinary tech titans who are now arguing over the Coronavirus lockdowns and the way forward. They've been at it before over questions
over A.I. Now, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg is worried about lifting restrictions too quickly. The Tesla CEO Elon Musk says that stay-at-home
orders are fascist. Musk tweeted "FREE AMERICA NOW." Clare Sebastian is in New York. Why is Elon Musk so anti-lockdown?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Richard, in contrast to Facebook, which obviously doesn't have a physical product that
it needs to make, Musk's business is one that needs people on the factory floor. And currently, his biggest factory, one of only two places in the
world, where he produces cars along with Shanghai, of course, which has now reopened, is in Fremont, California, which is currently under a shelter in
place order. So, that factory is closed. So, clearly, that is the huge problem to the business.
[15:45:01]
Musk said this was a serious risk. It was a problem not just for Tesla, but for companies down the supply chain, and his language was pretty strong,
Richard, on the earnings call. It's not just the tweets that we've seen from him recently. He called this an outrage. At one point, he said, "Give
people back their goddamn freedom." But look, it's not just the fact of the factory, although that is a big deal. This is a man who we know from the
past, he does not like external factors getting in the way of his vision. He does not like to take no for an answer. And I think you know, he's going
to continue to push because he wants to make his targets for the year. This was supposed to be a year where Musk was rolling out new products. He was
building a Giga factory in Berlin. You know, he wants to make those numbers. He does not want this to get in the way.
QUEST: The -- staying with technology companies, Amazon, continues to be the backbone of many people's shopping, myself included, I have to say, but
at the same time, the issues concerning Amazon go very deep. You've been looking into it.
SEBASTIAN: Yes, Amazon has a program that a lot of companies would want. In many ways, at this time, too much demand, but that comes with challenges.
They haven't been able to meet it with the standards that people are used to. There's no more one-day shipping, for example, but they are hiring,
Richard, 175,000 people in the U.S. alone to help meet that demand. And we've been looking at what that experience is like we've seen quite a wide
range of views on this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: Less than two months ago, Mike Bower was getting ready for his 14th season as the in-game host for the Arizona Diamondbacks baseball team.
MIKE BOWER, IN-GAME HOST, ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS: Reggie, you look like you can still benchpress a semi truck. Are you prepared to take one yard?
SEBASTIAN: He was also working several other jobs, hosting sporting events and trivia nights.
BOWER: All of those things came to a stop when the world came to stop because there is no sports and no entertainment.
SEBASTIAN: He had some money saved up but without health insurance, he was worried about catching the virus and facing mounting medical bills. So, he
got a job at one of the few companies in his area actively hiring, packing groceries in an Amazon Fresh warehouse. One of 175,000 people the company
is adding to its ranks in the U.S. alone as demand surges.
BOWER: Everyone is wearing a mask. They have -- they actually have employees that are dedicated to, you know, making sure that the other
employees stay six feet apart. They have taken a great deal of precaution.
SEBASTIAN: Not all Amazon employees are as confident.
HAFSA HASSAN, EMPLOYEE, AMAZON FULFILLMENT CENTER: We want to let you know that we have a confirmed case with COVID-19 at MSP1.
SEBASTIAN: Hafsa Hassan, an employee at a fulfillment center in Shakopee, Minnesota reads a text message from Amazon about a confirmed case in her
center. She joined a walkout this week and says she's worried the company isn't telling employees if they've been exposed to a confirmed case.
HASSAN: We noticed an associate leave and the area that they were working in is disinfected. That associate was working with multiple people within
my department, probably sharing a scanner and in pallet jacks but they haven't told them.
SEBASTIAN: Amazon denies this, saying they do alert employees who have been in close contact with someone confirmed to have the virus. But another
employee at the same center told us he believes there's no clear process for determining exactly who should be alerted. In a company where
organizing is rare, the pandemic has brought small but increasingly frequent protests. This was on New York Staten Island in March. The New
York Attorney General has now warned Amazon it may be in violation of federal workplace safety laws for inadequate precautions in its warehouses.
SUCHARITA KODALI, VICE PRESIDENT & PRINCIPAL ANALYST, FORRESTER: The balance of power at this moment in time is with the workers, and that's
evidenced by the fact that virtually all hourly workers at these essential retailers are getting paid more. The challenge, though, is that this is
likely to be short lived.
SEBASTIAN: Amazon says they've introduced 150 process updates to improve safety and it's extending its pay raise for all hourly employees through
mid-May. But from May 1st, they're ending a policy to provide unlimited unpaid time off to workers. The company says it is still providing flexible
leave of absence options for COVID-19-related circumstances.
HASSAN: Now, workers have to decide, do I stay home, keep my family safe, end up with my UPT getting low and then facing termination, or do I go to
work, risk my life and risk my family's life.
SEBASTIAN: For some in Amazon's fast-growing workforce, it's a lifeline. For others, it feels like a life and death decision. Clare Sebastian, CNN,
New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Clare, though, results from Amazon coming up. And you'll be watching for those closely. Clare Sebastian in New York, thank you. In just a
moment, we have a second attempt to hear from our band in South Africa. We heard from them briefly yesterday. After the break, we will be back in
South Africa to hear them play and the musicians who are doing online concerts.
[15:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Ever since the lockdown took place in South Africa, of course, there'd be no abilities to have any concerts, or any form of events. In
South Africa, the song -- singer/writer Christiaan Baartman, says gigs where the vast majority of his income now has resorted to performing
online. With his good friends and guitars Johnny Late, each night they perform online and they have get up to several hundred people, earning tips
on the way. Christiaan and Johnny join me now from South Africa. Good to have you both with me. All right. So, whose idea was it? Because I know
Johnny that you saw all your concert gigs disappear immediately, a load of them, dozens of them in one go, didn't you?
JOHNNY LATE, SINGER & GUITARIST: Yes, well, it's still -- Yes, it disappeared immediately. And there's no -- any for the foreseeable future.
I mean, we don't know when this thing's going to end. So it's -- it was kind of a big shock. It was like, you know, what do we do now?
QUEST: So, whose idea was it to go online and do these events?
CHRISTIAAN BAARTMAN, SINGER/SONGWRITER: Yes, Richard, there was one day that -- literally, one day all the gigs are canceled, 36 gigs just gone.
And I've got ADHD and dyslexia. So, I've always had to be a bit faster than the normal guy just not to stay behind. So literally the same day that
everything got canceled, I started getting ready to start streaming online, started with my phone, and just upgrading, upgrading, and upgrading until
we have what you see in front of you now.
QUEST: So, tell me about these online concerts. How many people? I know there's hundreds, how many people join in and how many actually tip you,
how many join in and tip?
BAARTMAN: Well, Richard, it varies. We have about 30 to 40,000 views in a week throughout the streams. And the tipping is, I would say, I'll make
about 20 percent of what I usually make with my normal gigs. But we also gig every night. So tonight was our 43rd gig since lockdown.
QUEST: Wow. And the average number, Johnny, the average number of people watching you?
LATE: Well, I mean, like Christiaan said, it varies, it depends -- it depends on who's streaming currently, you know, at the moment. So, I
suppose you're competing with like, people from all over the world. So I think it depends on the evening. It depends of the night, and it also
depends on what we offer. So sometimes, we do offer like we try to make it like a new show every night. So play new material, obviously not to get
people bored. So we will do like a 60s evening, our 70s evening. Last night for (INAUDIBLE) we did one-hit wonders. And yes, I suppose it depends on
what you're offering and depends on who's streaming, but I suppose on average, you've got about like 1,000 views, thousand thereabouts. Yes.
QUEST: Right. So, Christiaan, finally before we hear your play, Christiaan, is this something that you could see -- obviously, you're going to get back
playing again, but do you think you can somehow take this forward once the lockdown is gone and it provides a new avenue for you in the future.
[15:55:10]
BAARTMAN: Definitely, definitely. So we and a very good mate of mine, Leon Gropp, we just produced a small 45-minute kids T.V. show that we are
selling online on a new platform called Rain Dust. And we are already seeing income through that. I'm currently busy with four new productions
that we're laying out like that, that we can generate funds and also Facebook is creating a platform where we can charge money for a live
stream, which is amazing.
QUEST: Got it. All right, I'm going to say goodbye while you gentlemen get ready to play and then you'll play us out the program tonight. Kind of
leave you with our "VOICE OF THE CRISIS," which is in of course South Africa tonight. They're getting ready to play. Take us out after this. I'm
off tomorrow, Friday, and on Monday long weekend. "VOICE OF THE CRISIS" began. That's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New
York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. Play us out, gentleman. Play us out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD, I'm Jake Tapper. Right now at this hour, we know of at least 61,867 people in the United States, that's
almost 62,000, who have died from Coronavirus. And the death toll is still escalating at a rapid pace. The nation reached 30,000 deaths just two weeks
ago. That means more than half of the total lives lost so far happened in just the last 14 days.
Today, President Trump said of his administration's response to the pandemic, "I think we did a spectacular job." His son-in-law yesterday
called the federal response, a great success story, all part of a piece to convey that no mistakes have been made. And everything has been done
perfectly, which empirically, of course, it has not. Two months ago, Vice President Pence told me the risk to the American people was low, and that
the administration was fully prepared.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're ready. We're ready. And this is an all-hands-on-deck effort. And whether it be testing kits or
whether it'd be medical devices or protective gear for our healthcare providers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The fact is, they were not ready. And with more than 60,000 Americans down dead, shortages of tests, testing supplies and protective
equipment for healthcare workers continuing to be reported. It seems clear the administration remains unready in some key ways, as more than half the
states across the nation are in some stage of reopening, though it's clear that not all of them have met the White House guidelines to do so.
END
