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Quest Means Business
Markets Rise Despite Skepticism Of Russian COVID-19 Vaccine. Aired 3:15-4p ET
Aired August 11, 2020 - 15:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:18:12]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: A very good day to you and warm welcome, it's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for you tonight.
A look at the markets and how they are performing. The Dow and the markets could yet close at a record high. These markets of course, buoyed up, but
they have given up much of the losses of the day.
The reasons and what's moving the markets today. Phase 3 or not, Vladimir Putin says Russia's vaccine is ready. I will speak to the head of the group
that's funding it.
And Jeremy Dimon tells us -- excuse me -- the markets are disconnected from the reality on Main Street.
And the chief executive of Air Asia, Tony Fernandez, says he still believes in a V-shaped recovery.
Live from New York on Tuesday, it is the 11th of August. I'm Richard Quest, and of course, I mean business.
Good evening. It is the height of the summer in New York, and the bears, it would seem, are about to go into hibernation. Wall Street is rallying on
the vaccine hopes from Russia.
Russia says that it has approved a vaccine, and the S&P, well, it was going close at a record, but as you can see, we are now down on the S&P, down
half a percent. The NASDAQ is off more than one percent and the Dow is also going down.
The magic number for the S&P would have been 3,385. But obviously, it doesn't look like that's going to happen today.
The raging pandemic continues, but Russia says that it has approved a vaccine and already President Putin's daughter has received and been
inoculated by it.
[15:00:17]
QUEST: But the interesting about this is, it's all taking place before widespread, wide scale third party trials. President Putin says the vaccine
is safe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I know it very well, as one of my daughters has been inoculated with the vaccine. I think
that in this way, she participates in the experiments.
After the first injection, her temperature was 38 degrees Celsius. The next day, 37-something, and that's it.
After the second injection, the temperature also got a bit higher, but that's it. Then it went back down. Now, she feels well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, President Putin may feel confident about it and say that it was just a heightened temperature, the medical world and the medical
community is far from assuaged by that.
This is the state of the global vaccine race. There are 18 projects in so- called Phase 1. That's where it is given to a few people. There are 11 that are in Phase 2. That's given to a few hundred people. And here you are
looking at tolerance rather than efficacy.
But Phase 3 is the biggie. And there, you have got Moderna, Pfizer, AstraZeneca, Cansino, Sinopharm, and Sinovac.
Russia, though, claims it has reached the finishing line and says it will be the fastest vaccine in history. However, Russia has skipped Phase 3
trials, which is where the drug is given to thousands of people.
It is the only way to truly identify harmful side effects with statistical certainty? Elizabeth Cohen is with me in Atlanta, our CNN senior medical
correspondent.
Elizabeth, good to have you with us. So this -- this vaccine -- before we discuss whether it works or not, let's just talk about the missing of Stage
3 and that significance.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, that's everything. Stage 3 is everything. You don't know if this vaccine works, and you don't
know if it is going to kill people. You just don't know. That's why we do Phase 3 trials. In the U.S., they are in 30,000 people. You want the see
what happens.
You know, it is interesting to me that Putin sort of highlights, well, my daughter had it and it worked great, so it must be great. Do you know how
much it matters that his daughter had it, Richard? This much. That's how much it matters.
Who cares what it does to one person? First of all, we don't know if they protected her because she probably hasn't had a chance to go out and find
out, right?
So, it doesn't matter what it does to one person, ten people, a hundred people, a couple hundred people. It doesn't matter. You have to try it out
on lots of people to see if it works and -- and this is super important -- to make sure you are not hurting anyone.
I guess the Russian don't really care if they are hurting anyone because you would never ever in the United States put a vaccine on the market
without first doing Phase 3 trials. That's the only way to find out if you are going to hurt people or not.
QUEST: Okay, but to the extent -- and I take your point. And we will come back to it -- but to the extent that the Phase 3 trial sorts out, if you
like, the harmful, and also, because hopefully, a lot of the harmful has been sorted out in one and two and weeded out. Phase 3 also tells you the
efficacy on a large scale, I believe?
COHEN: Richard, I don't know if you saw me shaking my head just now, but no, it hasn't been sorted out. Just trying it out in a couple of hundred
people does not sort anything out. Not only that, the most important point that I can make with you, Richard, right now is that none of this has been
published.
We are trusting Putin. We are just trusting him that he says, hey, everything is great. Go ahead, take it. Roll up my sleeve. You have got to
be kidding.
I would not roll up my proverbial sleeve force this vaccine.
He has published nothing. He is just saying it is out there, let's go. Let's take it.
Why would you trust something that has not been put into writing? I think the former Commissioner of the F.D.A. here in the U.S., Scott Gottlieb put
it really well. He said, I wouldn't take it. I think that's the bottom line.
QUEST: Right. Elizabeth, I have known you a while and I've never seen you quite as riled up over something as this.
COHEN: Because this isn't science, and at a time like this, when we have this virus killing people all around the world for someone to say, look, I
have a vaccine. I want everyone to take it -- is really terrible. This is really a problem.
We are going to vaccinate hundreds of millions of healthy people, and you can't do that unless you are sure you are not going to hurt them. Above all
else, do no harm.
If you have a vaccine that you are just whipping out and saying, hey, guys, I say it works, take it. You could potentially be harming people.
And I will tell you, Richard, one of the reasons why I am riled up is that there is concern that this is going to happen in the United States.
People -- doctors in the United States are concerned that Trump is going to do with this vaccine what he did with hydroxychloroquine. Trump just said,
hey, hydroxychloroquine works, and he pressured the Food and Drug Administration to here to give it authorization, and they did. They later
took it away, but they did it.
There is the concern that the same thing could happen with the vaccine before Election Day just to get him votes.
[15:25:41]
QUEST: Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.
COHEN: Thanks.
QUEST: Kirill Dmitriev is with me. He is Head of the Russian Sovereign Wealth Fund. They funded the vaccine or partly funded the vaccine, and
Kirill has taken it as well, he had been inoculated with it.
So, you just heard there, I'm sure, Elizabeth Cohen basically saying that this vaccine has not been tested to the standards that we would normally
require. Your response?
KIRILL DMITRIEV, CEO, RUSSIAN DIRECT INVESTMENT FUND: Well, Richard, it's surprising to me that so many people make such assessments without really
understanding the science behind it.
So let me spend very briefly on the science behind it and I know you've had coronavirus. I think it is affecting the lives of many people. It is a
terrible disease and we need to figure out how to work on this together rather than putting cliches on successful efforts by scientists.
So the benefit that Russia has had is that used a human adenovirus approach that has been proven safe in Russia for the last six years. We have a
registered Ebola vaccine with this approach. We have kept trials on thousands of people with MERS on this approach, and you basically take
light flu virus, you put some part of the virus like spiked protein and it works to stimulate your immune system.
So, this is the proven technology, proven platform versus mRNA technology in the U.S. It has never been proven, it has never been tested. You can
test it on 30,000 people, 50,000, but you need to test for a long time to prove safety of this mRNA platform.
Russia tested its platform for six years.
QUEST: Even Russian authorities, even Russian doctors who are responsible for vaccines are saying that this is irresponsible to put this vaccine out
until there has been full-scale Phase 3 trials. Even people and medical experts in Russia are saying this.
DMITRIEV: Yes, Richard, and we saw some of those comments, but again, you have lots of experts who support this and will do roll out very gradually.
So they will start Phase 3 now. We will vaccinate doctors and other risk workers who want to take the vaccine. We have unique proprietary tests that
people do not talk about that really measures how much specific antibodies that are the most efficient different people have.
And once again, it is very different. Some people want to use monkey coronavirus that has not been tested for a long time at all.
So the fact that we have a proven platform is important and Cansino uses adenovirus number five, which is what we used as well. Johnson & Johnson
uses coronavirus number 26, which we also have.
So we have people following in the footsteps of Russia with a very validated scientific approach that Russia developed.
QUEST: How much of this is about proving the science, if you like, of Russia, of allowing the President to say, we got there first, look how good
-- well, he as much as said that in his statement today. How much of this is the glory of Russia?
DMITRIEV: Well, Richard, frankly, if it doesn't work, it would be a major embarrassment to do this. So you have to understand, you know, I have given
it to two of my 74-year-old parents. We understand that it works.
And frankly, many people who attack us also understand that it works, but they just want to dent the reputation of the vaccine.
So time will tell. If it doesn't work, it will be a major embarrassment to our Health Ministry, lots of people, jobs will be on the line.
And you have to understand, how do you get the bureaucrat in the Health Ministry to approve something like this unless the science is really solid,
unless the track record of our platform is very solid?
QUEST: I understand your point, and I think you've made -- you know, you say if it doesn't work -- but there are two options here, aren't there?
There is, if it doesn't work, in which case, it's embarrassing. But if it's proven that it does harm, and you would have found that out with a Phase 3
trial, well, that's a different matter, isn't it?
[15:30:10]
DMITRIEV: Well, Richard, but again, nobody's forcing Elizabeth who was on the call to take the vaccine. I think, as I said, that will be a very
gradual rollout. We'll also have clinical trials in UAE, Saudi Arabia, Philippines, Brazil. I think we will continue to evaluate this. For
example, very few people understand how long the immunity lasts. We believe that having two batches, which we have, will have some long-lasting
immunity. And with one shot, you will have a very short-lasting immunity.
So, some effects are still not known. But given the pandemic that is happening, given at the rates that are happening, we actually believe it's
more dangerous if you have a proven technology and you know it works not to give it to people. And this is more dangerous because with that approach,
people in other countries will be losing lives because they don't access to a methodology and science that works.
QUEST: Kirill, thank you for joining us. I do always appreciate it. And of course, next time I promise we'll discuss more matters of economics and the
business environment --
DMITRIEV: Thank you, Richard.
QUEST: -- which, of course, we also need to get to grips with, with Russia. Good to talk to you. Coronavirus and the markets, we are very close to
record highs. It does make the question, the real economy versus the stock market. After the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: A reminder of the Breaking News that we're reporting here on CNN, Joe Biden has decided now on his running mate in the U.S. presidential
election. The announcement could come as soon as today. The presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party, that's Biden, has promised to choose a
woman who will join the ticket. And as soon as we have a name, you'll hear about it here on CNN. I promise you that. The other headlines now, the U.K.
is mulling removing France from the safe travel green list and adding it to the list of countries requiring quarantine. Cases are back on the rise in
France and indeed across the whole of Europe.
[15:35:10]
New cases are creeping up to a rate of 20,000 a day. That's a concerning uptick. You can see France in bright blue in the bottom right. Still no
comparison, of course, the problems of the United States and Brazil. Dr. Hans Kluge is the Europe Director for the WHO and joins me from Dordogne in
France. Doctor, this obsession that the European countries have on: you've just gone above my per capita of hundred thousands; you've just gone below
it; you can now come; you can't go -- all these sorts of things. Is it worthwhile doing it that way?
DR. HANS KLUGE, EUROPE DIRECTOR, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION (via Skype): Good evening, Richard. Well, what we see is that the countries have
specific country thresholds. They look at the number of new cases per 100,000 population. And if you go above the threshold of another country,
then certain measures are initiated. But you have a good point. I mean, what's important here are two things. One, we are not in the situation as
in February, where we're targeting economy, targeting the people, the education, now we have knowledge to target the virus. And number two, what
we need is a regional policy, so not country by country. And to communicate it very clear to the public to instill public trust.
QUEST: When you say a regional policy, I mean, isn't that what the European Commission and the E.U. is supposed to be doing?
KLUGE: Right. So, my region research, it encompasses of 53 European member states, and that's very important because no country is safe until everyone
is safe. You can stop it at the border of the E.U., right? So, WHO Europe is trying to harmonize across the larger European region. And that's why
today, I announced the Pan-European Commission on health and sustainable development with Professor Mario Monti as its chair to look how to
harmonize and learn lessons to make our society health and social care systems much more resilient.
QUEST: But hang on -- all right. All right. That's all very well to be looking to see how to make them better in the future. But at the moment,
there is this confusion and patchwork of -- let's just take the U.K. for example. Well, Belgium is now on the list of quarantine, France might be on
the list. Spain is on the list. Questions of whether to have mainland Spain or the Balearic Islands. You'll agree, doctor, this is no way to get any
form of clarity for people so they can go about their lives.
KLUGE: Well, Richard, we have to understand, 31 out of 53 countries are seeing quite a significant increase in cases, which is anticipated if once
the lock downs were lifted. So, absolutely, to regionalize the solidarity, looking across the borders is very, very important. We saw this in the
beginning and also now. That, you have a great point.
QUEST: Is it inevitable that when we reopen, the number of cases goes up, and it is only the job, really, to mitigate so that that doesn't get too
bad?
KLUGE: Right. So, we are not in February where the default option was to shut down and reboot. Now, we have a lot of knowledge, basically through
community engagements. So, it's all source responsibility. I believe it was you, Richard, who one I told, we should not throw away any penny. It is by
saving pennies you get incrementally rich. And that's what we have to do. We all have to save our penny, meaning behave individually safe and
responsible, engage the youth, and then we will yield global health security.
QUEST: So, I -- but I realized that, you know, we may both be saying the same point here, but I was in Prague last week, where masks are nowhere to
be seen and social distancing is in name only. I mean, it doesn't exist. The U.K. has masks in the street -- in shops, but not on the streets. Here
in New York, frankly, I'm relieved, there are masks everywhere. Doctor, how do you get uniformity accepting the difference in conditions in individual
countries?
KLUGE: Right, I mean, we also have to be realistic, right, Richard? There is the reality and then the ideal. I'm quite pragmatic. So, my approach has
been to work through what I call "targeted health diplomacy." I have been speaking since day one with ministers, presidents, heads of state
individually and (INAUDIBLE).
[15:40:07]
And if we go (INAUDIBLE) we've target health diplomacy to unify, then the countries will feel that no -- anyone is left out when we have a policy
decision over function. My function is to help the countries to empower their leadership so that they make the right decision within a
contextualized situation.
QUEST: Hopefully, you'll come back and talk more, as the summer comes to an end. And we really do need to understand what happens in the autumn and the
winter. Good to have you, doctor, much appreciate you joining us tonight from France.
KLUGE: My pleasure. My pleasure.
QUEST: After the break, Mark Thompson, the CEO -- I was going to say former CEO, still at the moment of the New York Times who is leaving the post, and
we'll talk about what he believes was his achievement at the Times. In a moment.k
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: "CALL TO EARTH" is CNN's call to action for the environment, sharing stories of people who are experiencing their own Call to Earth journey.
Today, we follow the explorer and Rolex Associate Laureate Cristian Donoso to Patagonia. There, we document the impact of climate change in the last
century.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRISTIAN DONOSO, ROLEX ASSOCIATE LAUREATE (through translator): Climate change has spoken about a lot today. And the way in which information is
submitted about what's happening is really abstract and scientific, filled with numbers, filled with statistics. Photography and art are tools that
allow this information to be presented in a more direct way, making more concrete impact. My name is Cristian Donoso. I do expeditions in places
that are not so well known in Patagonia.
[15:45:03]
I got the opportunity to go to the Darwin mountain range in Tierra del Fuego and to compare photographs taken by an explorer a century ago with
images taken today in exactly the same places. At the time, the region was extensively visited by Alberto de Agostini, and since then has remained
unexplored.
We went in the very same season at the very same time of the year during the same month. We wanted to find the same conditions. What we saw at the
location was much more dramatic than what we believed would be the case. You see that the Marinelli glacier acts almost like a dam for a lake, and
it's almost impossible to realize that this is the same place.
We find ourselves with a century of difference between us. And looking back, I can construct the tale of what happened in Patagonia and how
mankind has changed this land. Actions that we carry out either here or on the other side of the world, still have consequences and all around the
world. Until climate change directly affects our day-to-day life, we won't start changing our habits, we won't take decisive action to fight it. I
think it's very important to promote access to nature. Because that way, we will make people conscientious about its protection because no one would
fight to protect things that they aren't aware of. And it's for that that I do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: We'll continue, of course, showcasing the work "CALL TO EARTH." Inspirational stories as part of our initiative here at CNN. And let us
know what you think and what you're doing to help in your own personal Call To Earth with #calltoearth. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:50:10]
QUEST: And to an era at the newspaper of record, all the news that's fit to print, Mark Thompson is stepping down as CEO of the New York Times. Now
remember, this is the commercial side, the New York Times company, as opposed to the editorial side. He was previously the director general of
the BBC, and he joined the Times in 2012. When he did so, an opinion piece in his own paper, asked if he was the right man for the job. Eight years
later, digital subscriptions have gone from 500,000 to more than 5 million. The share price is up more than 400 percent. And digital revenue has passed
print revenue for the first time. Mark Thompson, CEO of the failing New York Times joins me now. And the failing New York Times says the president.
MARK THOMPSON, OUTGOING CEO, THE NEW YORK TIMES (via Skype): Well, not so much, Richard, really. I mean, certainly, if you look at the economics of
the -- of the company, we've been successful in the last few years in really proving out a model whereby you invest in journalism, we've got more
than 300 more people in our newsroom than when I started. Invest in journalism, get smart about how you package it and sell it as a digital
product on smartphones and so on. And you can generate the loyalty and the subscribers, which help pay for more journalism. So, we've managed to get
ourselves into a virtuous circle. We're one of the few news organizations to do that.
QUEST: The -- as the CEO, what do you think was the one thing -- I read your article about you came in with a cold open eye from being an outsider
-- what was the one thing that you noticed and thought, this is barking mad? I can change this in a minute.
THOMPSON: I just felt -- but I have so -- I feel this about T.V. as you know, I'm a T.V. guy. I did work with you at the BBC, Richard, but the --
just like our own industry, like T.V., I felt that the newspaper industry was trapped in the psychology of the limits of the possible. You know, that
they didn't really think that you could break out from, you know, a million, a million and a half subscribers, where, you know, more than 6
million subscribers now. We set a goal of 10 million. I think the New York Times ultimately could reach 10, 20, 30 million subscribers.
And there's something about just raising your ambitions. In some ways, my ignorance about the American newspaper business I think helped me because I
didn't have any of these self-imposed boundaries.
QUEST: And that's fascinating in its own right, isn't it? Because, objectively, one wouldn't appoint somebody as the CEO of a major --
particularly a gold standard, who had no experience of that particular element of the industry.
THOMPSON: And not just that, Richard, I've never worked for a day in my life before coming to New York Times in a full-profit company. I've been
chief executive of both Channel Four, and the BBC in the U.K. but those are both not for profit organizations. So, it was my first -- my first day of
true commercial life was the day I walked into the headquarters in New York Times. But I think, you know, that was at least I think positively the
point of that article, but it turns out that actually, we've been a surprisingly good marriage, I'd say.
QUEST: And on this -- you've kept your hands off the editorial to the, you know, in the extent that one can and -- but the New York Times is in the
midst of the editorial, same editorial throws that we all are, which is conservative versus liberal. What to say? And when you lost the opinion
page editor, did you spot the sign of a crisis, do you think?
THOMPSON: Well, I certainly think. I mean, that we're living through incredibly polarized times, particularly in the United States, very
visceral polarized politics. That inevitably, in some ways, a news organizations should, to some extent, reflect the societies it's reporting
on. And that comes into the building. I had incredible admiration for James Bennett as an editor, and he did wonderful things. And he did broaden the
range of (AUDIO GAP) of the Times, but I'm afraid he did fall victim to what is a moment of, you know, great anger and great disagreement. We have
to reflect that.
I believe the New York Times should continue to publish a really broad, really broad range of different opinions, including opinions from the right
and the -- and the strongly-held kind of further right, but nonetheless, it's a bumpy busines as that episode demonstrated.
QUEST: And now, the head of Channel Four, I've forgotten about that one, but I certainly remember you were the D.G. of the BBC when I think I was
still there. You were the D.G. of the BBC. And now, you've been the CEO of the New York Times. And you're barely in your 60s. So, what is next? People
of your age with your experience -- and please do not try and flim-flam me otherwise, you do not go off to grow petunias and go fishing.
THOMPSON: You find me in my kitchen in Northern New England as I'll be doing a bit of cooking later on. So, the domestic side of it, I do like.
But, look, I like big challenges, that should be fairly apparent. That might come in the shape of another big executive job, but it might not. I'm
interested in the puzzle of how you help organizations confront the present and the future, how you -- how you change them, how you can unlock talent
and innovation and creativity in organizations. That's my thing. And if I can help one or more organizations in the future, I'd love to do that.
QUEST: Now, we look forward in that role of helping others. We look forward you coming on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS once you've got a bit, maybe more free
time. And we can talk about the future of industry and the future of economics of this going forward. Mark, good to have you. Thank you, sir. I
appreciate it.
THOMPSON: Thank you, Richard. See you soon. God bless.
QUEST: Thompson of -- thank you -- the New York Times. Last few moments of trading on Wall Street, the Dow has given up its gains. This is all because
of the question of the stimulus. Well, apparently, it's a stalemate, it's more than gone given up its gains, it's gone into reverse, down 106. We
were going to exit a bear market on the S&P. That's now gone. We'll have more after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's "PROFITABLE MOMENT," Kirill Dmitriev earlier on the program raises the argument that the Russian vaccine that's been approved
is using standard, tried and tested technology. And anyway, he's touted his daughter (INAUDIBLE) the president's daughter (INAUDIBLE) I didn't buy it.
The world is replete with stories where a corner was cut, something was done. And 30 years later, well, we reap the benefits and there's a full
inquiry as to what went wrong. I hope that doesn't happen here. It would be pretty dreadful if it does, but I can't help feeling, even though COVID is
the awful pandemic it is, that is not an excuse to remove tried and trusted safeguards, because we think there's a momentary sense of urgency. We could
reap and repay in spades. And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope
it's profitable. I'll see you tomorrow.
END
