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Quest Means Business
Trump & Biden Give Differing Visions of Economic Recovery Coping With Emotional Toll Of Chaotic First Debate. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired September 30, 2020 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:22]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: I am Richard Quest. A warm welcome.
Donald Trump has been speaking just a few moments ago. He's on his way to a campaign event in Minnesota. When he was asked about the chaotic debate
that took place in Cleveland with Joe Biden, the President specifically being asked about his comments and refusal to condemn white supremacist
says he doesn't know who the Proud Boys are. That was the group he was specifically asked to condemn. This is what the President said a few
moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just standby. Look, law enforcement will do their work. They're going to stand down, they have to
stand down everybody. Everybody, they have to stand -- whatever group you're talking about, let law enforcement do the work now.
Now, Antifa is a real problem, because the problem is on the left, and Biden refuses to talk about it. He refuses to issue the words, "law and
order." You saw that last night when he choked up. He can't say the words because he'll lose the rest of the left.
So he's got to condemn Antifa. Antifa is a very bad group.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Brian Stelter is with us, our chief media correspondent. Brian, we'll come on to the changes being made in the debates after last night's
debacle. But what do we make? I mean, again, he now he says he doesn't know who the Proud Boys are. Well, though, that wasn't the story last night. And
his whole "standby." Are we any the wiser?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: The Proud Boys are on the radar of the F.B.I. They are on the radar of Homeland Security.
This is a group with a lot of links to extremism in the United States, and if the President actually doesn't know this group, then he needs to be
briefed on them today.
I don't take his words at face value, though, Richard, I think it's mostly he does know of this far right group that goes around provoking violence
and he is just claiming not to know. He is trying to create distance.
This is now a multiday news cycle because of the President's error-filled response at the debate last night. And it's such a sad statement about
America that the story the next day after a presidential debate is about the President being unable or unwilling to denounce these kind of extremist
groups.
QUEST: What is the general view, do you think, on what he did mean by "and standby"? I mean, it surely beggars belief that he was inviting these
right-wing white supremacist groups to quote "standby" for another day when you can go back into battle?
STELTER: Yes. Right. Right. It's about intimidation. It's about intimidation, perhaps at the polls, certainly at peaceful protests. There
are these situations in Portland and other cities, where you have left-wing groups and right-wing groups that go looking for battle looking for
trouble.
The Proud Boys is a part of this phenomenon, but they also show up in other events in other cities as well. When he says "standby," I think that does
ring as intimidation. It rings as you might be needed in the future.
Look, let's put it this way, Richard, if the President had wanted to say, put down your weapons, put down your ammunition, sit down, then he could
have said that. But he didn't. And by the way, this was a Joe Biden provocation.
It was Biden who said to Trump, you know, when Trump was saying name one. Biden said, "Proud Boys." So Biden, in a way, I don't want to say laid a
trap, but he set up this situation for Trump. And that goes to speak to Biden's success at this debate by trying to show presidential style
leadership.
QUEST: Right. And I see that the Commission on Presidential Debates, has now said that the debates need new structures. I'm not sure I know what
that means. Bearing in mind ...
STELTER: I'm not sure they do either.
QUEST: ... the President --
STELTER: Yes.
QUEST: Well, the President didn't even -- I mean -- didn't even keep to the structure of allowing the Vice President his two minutes. You can have
all the rules you like, but if the participants don't follow them, I don't know what they do next.
STELTER: Yes, that's why this is so embarrassing for the United States on the world stage. This debate debacle was the creation of the Commission on
Presidential Debates, but it was really the creation of President Trump.
He broke the rules far more than Joe Biden did. Trump interrupted far more than Joe Biden did, and the debate moderator, Chris Wallace, belatedly
tried to exert control, but mostly failed to do so.
In the last hour, the Commission has said they will come up with additional tools and more structure for the debates going forward. Now I am putting
those in air quotes, because I don't know what that means, and I don't think they know what that means yet.
[15:05:18]
STELTER: The obvious solution, Richard is cut off the microphone, cut off the microphone of a serial interrupter. But here's the question, would
President Trump be willing to show up if he knew that was an option? That's a very open question. And the Debate Commission representatives are not
answering questions about what their plans are going forward.
QUEST: Brian Stelter. Brian, thank you. Talking about the debacle last night, and the way it moves forward.
So all of this, it becomes even more worrying, distressing, and downright humiliating. When you think of the very serious issues that the President
and Vice President should have been talking about, particularly on the economy.
After all, U.S. workers are under siege. On the same night as you saw this debacle, in the last 24 hours, Disney has shed 28,000 jobs, its parks and
resorts have been crushed by shutdowns.
Shell is losing 9,000 jobs. The energy demand slump as a result of the coronavirus. Dow Chemicals is cutting six percent of workforce costs on
what they're calling an uneven recovery. And by this time, tomorrow, 100,000 airline jobs will be at risk as the Federal bailout protections
expire.
Now, you would have thought with so much serious economic damage in their midst, both men would have been willing and wanting to get on with the
economics and their policies to put things right. Not a bit of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He doesn't want a senator --
TRUMP: You didn't answer the question.
BIDEN: I'm not going to answer the question because --
TRUMP: Why wouldn't you answer that question?
BIDEN: Because the question is --
TRUMP: You put a lot of --
BIDEN: The question is --
TRUMP: The radical left --
BIDEN: Would you shut up, man.
TRUMP: Listen, you --
Did you use the word "smart"? So you said you went to Delaware State, but you forgot the name of your college. You didn't go to Delaware State. You
graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. Don't ever use the word smart with me.
He wants to shut down this country, and I want to keep it open. And we --
BIDEN: He can't admit that he shut it down.
TRUMP: Wait a minute, Joe. Let me shut you down for a second, Joe. Just for one second.
BIDEN: Ask him --
TRUMP: Why didn't you do it over -- in the last 25 years?
BIDEN: Because you weren't President --
TRUMP: Why didn't you do it over the last 25 years --
BIDEN: Because you weren't President screwing things up.
TRUMP: You were a senator and by the way --
BIDEN: You're the worst President that America has ever had.
It's hard to get any word in with this clown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Forgive me laughing, but I wouldn't laugh if it wasn't so tragic. Julia is with me. Julia, what do you make it?
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: You can laugh and I'll cry. I think there was much to be heartbroken about in that debate,
Richard, but I think -- and I think you said it perfectly, where was the discussion about economic policy to bring back the 10 million jobs that we
are still down as a result of the COVID crisis, but also an economic plan for restructuring and addressing the desperate inequalities in this
country.
And again, just in the space of 24 hours, the threat of what -- 130,000 further jobs going, and we're risking more. It doesn't surprise me in light
of what we saw last night that we saw Nancy Pelosi, that we saw Stephen Mnuchin going look, we're going to have one more try to come up with
stimulus because for all the debate about a K-shaped recovery and a V- shaped recovery, the alphabet soup, where we are today is without further support for small businesses, 30 million of them in America, 85 percent of
employment in this country, without further stimulus benefits or financial aid for individuals in this country.
And we aren't tackling things like money for schools to try and get people and get their children back to work so people can go back to work and be
more able to work from home if they are. There are so many issues in this country that need addressing, and none of them got addressed on that debate
stage last night, Richard, and that's the key.
QUEST: Right, but the -- what do you do about this? I mean, bearing in mind that one of those two men in some shape or form is going to win the
presidency. Maybe later than usual. But at the same time, we know what Biden's economic policies are, we don't really know what Donald Trump hopes
to do in his second term. So what does one do?
CHATTERLEY: Quite frankly, Richard, and I think there's too much politicking going on, I think the hope -- and it's a desperate one actually
at this stage -- is that Congress can come together, the two sides can come together and recognize that actually voters have to go to the polls in a
few weeks' time and make a decision on who's done the best for them in terms of economic policy, and I think that's perhaps why it's galvanized
some response at this stage, it is going to come down to clearly who wins the House, who wins the Senate.
[15:10:19]
CHATTERLEY: I think the presidency at this stage, you know, who knows, quite frankly, Congress is so important, and in the interim, it is going to
be coming down to things like the Federal Reserve to support us in the interim, hopes for a vaccine in the short to medium term. These are
ultimately the things that matter, I think, at this stage, the presidency, Richard is irrelevant.
QUEST: Right. But Julia, and let's look at the Dow, let's look at the triple stack. Let's look at the markets and how they are trading.
And the word -- every time I see this. Look at this, Julia, come on. Come on. I mean, let's have a moment of common decency here. The markets are one
and a third percent, the triple stack up is showing similar gains at a time when there's a deficit of leadership.
And is this all just predicated because the Fed is printing money, and there's a search for yield with low bonds?
CHATTERLEY: Yes, Richard, because investors know, ultimately, however bad it gets politically, however bad it gets on an economic basis, the Federal
Reserve will step in. Congress will have to do something like you and I were shouting about in the beginning of this back in March, and a decision
was made to provide further financial aid and that decision will be made again, if things get bad enough.
I mean, it goes back to this K-shape recovery. The Federal Reserve's policy response is far more adept at providing stimulus support for financial
markets, for stock markets than it is for the one in seven families that are struggling to put food on the table. The day that we're speaking,
Richard, it's heartbreaking, but it's a reality.
QUEST: Julia. Julia Chatterley, thank you. Let's see "First Move" tomorrow morning. Appreciate it.
Julie talks about a K-shape, whether it's K, U, L, or whatever it might be, the Boston Consulting Group survey, which has just come out, only 17
percent of people who are still leaders are still bullish on 2020. Sixty four percent predict W or U-shaped recovery. The economy needs another $4
trillion in stimulus. It is the commonly held views.
Rich Lesser is the CEO of the Boston Consulting Group with me now from New York. Before we go any further, allow me to let you just vent on what you
saw last night.
RICH LESSER, CEO, BOSTON CONSULTING GROUP: It was a disappointing and, frankly, just really disappointing evening to see what's going on, and I
think, you know, we should expect better. We should expect better in terms of the dialogue we have. We should expect better in terms of the problems
we're trying to solve.
But I think what businesses are most concerned, what many Americans are most concerned about is what do we do now and over the coming months to set
up for a strong 2021 and beyond as we can and we have a lot of work to do, and clearly massive gaps on how our political leadership is going to get it
done in the months ahead.
QUEST: If we take it that nothing gets done for the next five or six weeks, and then depending -- there will be a few more weeks potentially,
for however long it takes for the election to become clear, and then you're going to transition which could be taught to us as well.
Where does this leave business expecting progress on trade deals, say for example, with China to go to the Phase 2, expecting some form of tax relief
for businesses? Or help? What happens? Are we looking at paralysis?
LESSER: Well, we are paralyzed right now, and we need to get beyond it. And let me start, rather than starting with trade, let's start closer to
home. We need to keep people safe and we need to do what we can to get through this period until we have effective medicines and vaccines.
And we have a big job to do around encouraging the right behaviors and protecting the vulnerable in a period where we don't yet have vaccines
rolled out or medicines approved that can address this. And then we need to get those rolled out and that will be a hard job.
So the best way to support a recovery of the economy is to get past the pandemic. We have a lot of work to do in the short term and a lot of work
to do over the coming year to make that happen, and then we need to invest in the economy to get through this.
We need to invest in small businesses, your prior guest talked about how much risk there is. She was entirely right. The small businesses, to many
individuals that are living on the edge at risk of losing their homes, and we need Congress to act -- Congress to act to help keep us safe, and
Congress to act to help get through the economy. And then of course, there's a whole range beyond that.
[15:15:20]
QUEST: But you and I talked before, and we spent a lot of time on this program talking about the CEO as the moral barometer in an era where there
is a vacuum of leadership at the moment. What do CEOs -- what should CEOs having seen this situation, having seen last night, and knowing the
division and the discourse, what should CEOs be doing?
LESSER: Well, look, I think, first you need to be a human being, and you need to realize how many people are in distress watching this play out on
their screens. If they're like me, I had two young people, my niece and nephew watching it with me last night. And, you know, you can't help feel
just really badly about what's going on and where the state of discourse is.
And I think you can be a human being with your team as well with the companies you lead and let them know that the values that you stand for,
the purpose that you stand behind, and your commitment to making environments better in contributing to a strong business, of course,
keeping the company strong provides jobs and opportunity, but contributing more broadly.
And second, to then figure out how to contribute from the business standpoint to help us move beyond this point. It's such a long list of
issues beyond COVID, beyond the near term economy. We have infrastructure we need, a huge digital divide to close. We have a massive climate issue.
The Business Roundtable just issued a great statement a couple of weeks ago on that. We have racial equity issues and the business community can't
solve any of them on their own, but the business community can contribute to that and I think people want to see that their companies care and are
trying to be positive contributors to addressing the biggest issues that society is facing.
Rich, Boston Global -- Boston Consulting, you're a global company, without naming names, give me a flavor of some of the e-mails that you have
received from colleagues around the world this morning when you switched on your computer and on your phone. Some of your colleagues, what were they
from around the world? What were they saying and asking you?
LESSER: I think that -- look for many people around the world, the United States, and the democracy that we have has been a beacon of how people --
that's not perfect, and the imperfections go long before the current times.
But I think people expected a certain level of what we stood for in terms of values and conversation and it came up way short last night for many
people, and there is some real distress that I've heard from around the world around it, and a worry about what comes after the election and will
we be able to get beyond this, whatever the outcome and be able to move forward because certainly I think that has real risk, real economic risk,
as well as societal risk.
So I think on all of those dimensions, there's a lot of frustration and some anger and some real concern about both, you know, the discourse but
also what's going to happen in the weeks ahead.
Good to have you. We appreciate you coming on with us tonight talking about it.
LESSER: Pleasure, Richard.
QUEST: Thank you very much, indeed.
LESSER: Good to see you.
QUEST: In just a moment, Donald Trump now has a fierce attack on the electoral integrity. After the break, what would this mean? Putting it
bluntly, what do you do when one party refuses to recognize the potential legitimacy of the process?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:21:21]
QUEST: President Trump was forceful as ever last night, cast out on the whole balloting by mail process, saying that there will be hundreds of
thousands, if not millions of votes that would go astray. They will be found in dumpsters and making baseless accusations about what will happen
with mail-in ballots.
He also encouraged his supporters to become poll monitors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am urging -- I am urging my people. I hope it's going to be a fair election. If it's a fair election --
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: You're urging them what?
TRUMP: I am a hundred percent on board. But if I see tens of thousands of ballots being manipulated, I can't go along with that.
WALLACE: And what does that mean you will not go along? Does that mean you're going to tell your people to take to the streets?
TRUMP: From a commonsense -- I'll tell you what it means. It means you have a fraudulent election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Well, I would have said what's all this doing to the stock market, and it's weighing on investors' minds, and they seem to be taking this
great deal to heart. And then you look at the numbers as I was talking about with Julia, just a moment ago, if we look at them, again, the triple
stack and the Dow and you see that the markets rallying by -- it's coming back off its top and you look at how its rallying.
Again, it's come down on a minor correction, but they're down firm for the month. But Kristina Hooper is with me, the Chief Global Market Strategist
at Invesco, in New York.
Kristina, I mean, I assume you are almost as horrified or maybe more if I - - as everybody else is about what you witnessed last night. But you know, it begs the question, why isn't the market more concerned about political
dysfunction bordering on disaster in this election?
KRISTINA HOOPER, CHIEF GLOBAL MARKET STRATEGIST, INVESCO: Well, I think the market is concerned about it, and there will be periods of time where
we see market swoons, market volatility, particularly as we get closer to the election.
The good news is that the stock market got distracted today, though. It stopped thinking about last night and started thinking about I think, bed
accommodation. We heard from Dallas Fed President Kaplan recently about the likelihood that we should see rates stay very, very low for a number of
years. So that certainly was a positive.
We got signs that there could be a phase for a fiscal stimulus deal, which I think was a very positive catalyst for stocks today, and then we also got
good news about progress in a therapy that has been shown to treat COVID-19 and lessen the severity of the illness.
So all good things that can distract us from the bad.
QUEST: Right, but you know, I don't wish to deny the significance, for example of an early vaccine, et cetera. But the Fed -- you know, the Fed
being the only game in town merely means that you're just moving the deck chairs on the Titanic, for the time being, until some real proper growth
comes through -- something good.
And on this question of stimulus, of course, it's crucially important, but if you have a paralyzed political elite, possibly until December or
January, at what point does investors throw up their hands and say, I'm out of here. I'm going. Goodbye.
HOOPER: Well, I think investors recognize that this is going to be a short term problem. Although, the President alluded to the possibility of this
going on for years, it's not going to. I think it's going to be decided relatively quickly.
And by whatever means, there will be a President on Inauguration Day in January of 2021. So it's a very short term issue.
Yes, that will create jitters that will create short term market volatility, but this is not something that is going to last a very long
time.
So when one has a long time horizon, it really doesn't matter. But I think investors have learned from the global financial crisis, you don't want to
abandon stocks, because you miss out on rallies and that can be perhaps the biggest mistake you make in the midst of a crisis.
[15:25:30]
QUEST: You know, that is so -- that is so true. I mean, that is what is propelling everybody to keep waiting on the dip. But I do want to put it
into a wider concern, an economic concern.
If we look today at the job losses, whether it's 28,000, from Disney, the tens of thousands that may go in the airline industry, the small businesses
that are going to be losing. We're moving into a really interesting time, aren't we, whereby we're in the trough here. It's slow, the drudgery. Jobs
going here, jobs going there, trying to rebuild. Will that be reflected, do you think in the stock market?
HOOPER: I don't think it's going to have a big impact on the stock market, just because there has been a real decoupling, because of what the Fed has
done. The accommodation has been so extraordinary that it really has altered risk and reward profiles, far more so than it did during the global
financial crisis.
But I think you're right to be concerned about the economy, just for the economy's sake. Clearly, there seems to be -- you know, signs point to
something of a slowing of economic growth this fall, and I expect more layoffs.
I don't think that we're going to return to normal until we get a vaccine, but certainly, this fall with the potential for a second wave and if we
don't get adequate fiscal stimulus, it could be problematic and really create some headwinds for this economic recovery.
QUEST: Just you know, I'm so glad you came on tonight and put this into perspective for us today. Thank you very much. Indeed. We will talk more
frequently between now and the end of the year. I appreciate your time. Thank you.
HOOPER: Thank you.
QUEST: Now the debate offered little -- well, I was going to say little policy. I'm not sure it offered any policy. But policy has to come through.
And after the break, one of President Obama's top economic advisers will be with us to talk about what Joe Biden did or did not manage to do last
night.
This QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:30:00]
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS still to come on tonight's program. You're going to hear from the CEO of
American Airlines, Doug Parker, who fears tens of thousands of job losses and furloughs if Congress can't agree some form of stimulus package.
The Celtic debate last night, the one thing everybody's got is high stress levels as a result, probably the last thing we needed, but don't worry, the
QUEST MEANS BUSINESS therapist will be with us to tell us how we handle -- and I'm serious here -- how we handle -- I mean, how many of us watch last
night and either wanted to throw something at the television or was screaming of what was happening or just went to bed depressed, as a result,
or woke up this morning as a result of that. Anyway, the therapist will be with us to put us into stress -- into productivity and stress. All of that
is after the news headlines because this is CNN, and on this network, the news always comes first.
President Trump has addressed calls earlier for some of his Republican colleagues condemn a far-right group called the Proud Boys. Much like last
night's debate, however, he declined to do so explicitly. Instead, he avoided tactic he's used before with the likes of David Duke claiming who
did not who the group was -- know who the group was but saying they should stand back.
The National Football League has postponed a game because of the Coronavirus for the first time this season. It was the Pittsburgh Steelers
who were set to play the Tennessee Titans on Sunday in Nashville. The league says the game will be rescheduled because at least four Titans
players and five staff have tested positive. The head of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, the FAA, took the helm or the wheel of the Boeing
737 Max Jet on a test flight. Administrator Steve Dixon said afterwards, he liked what he saw. The test flight in Seattle and Washington is a milestone
for Boeing as it tries to get the Max back in the air.
The U.S. labor market is showing signs of recovery. 790,000 new payroll jobs, 49,000 payroll jobs were added. The unemployment rate has now come
down towards eight, 7-1/2, eight percent. And things do seem to be looking much more like a V, at the moment, although Joe Biden would call it a K.
Now, if you are looking for detailed policy proposals last night, well, you are seriously disappointed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've done more -- in 47 months, I've done more than you've done in 47 years --
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The inherited the worst recession short of a depression in American history. I was asked to bring it back. We
were able to have an economic recovery that created the jobs you're talking about. We handed him a booming economy. He blew it. He blew it. He blew it.
TRUMP: It wasn't blooming. It wasn't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Jason Furman is with me, President Obama's economic adviser. He joins me now. Jason Furman, I listened very carefully, we'll get to the
policy. And that's not entirely fair, is it, in the sense that, yes, they did hand President Trump an improving economy. And the first two, up until
the COVID, the U.S. economy continued to improve with high stock markets, low unemployment and low inflation.
JASON FURMAN, FORMER ECONOMIC ADVISER OF PRESIDENT OBAMA: Yes, I mean, if you look at growth in the two years after the tax cut, it's pretty similar
to growth in the two years before it. The growth of business investment actually fell. The growth of government spending picked up under Trump, and
that's part of why what you saw in the overall economy. But broadly speaking, anyone claiming Trump did fabulous with the economy is completely
delusional. Anyone who claims he wrecked it, that rests on COVID. And if you think he's blamed for COVID, then you think he wrecked the economy,
too.
QUEST: Right now. The question of policy was obviously, remarkably lacking. The Vice President, former Vice President did attempt to go through his tax
plan in some shape or form, which does, at first blush, sound like a lot of traditional tax and spend.
[15:34:57]
FURMAN: Yes, I mean, President Trump doesn't actually have an agenda for next year. It's a rather unusual strategy for someone running. Vice
President Biden has an awful lot of plans. In terms of revenue, he would bring revenues this year, the economy back to roughly where it was in the
1990s. The economy did quite well in the 1990s. And I, Richard, think we need investments in child care, need more money for education, need more
money for infrastructure. I'm not sure which of the three of those you think we're doing too much of right now.
QUEST: But if we look at the -- of the economic, so you've got Q1, where the first sort of part of COVID, it's really Q2 where we get this massive
fall off the cliff, and a slow start recovering into Q3. How much of the V, do you think the recovery is going to complete?
FURMAN: I used to think half, now I think three quarters, the magnitude depends on policy. If we do another round of stimulus, we can get further.
If we don't do anything, we won't. And it also depends on the recovery of what? The stock market has already made the V, you know, the unemployment
rate for Black Americans, nowhere close to a V.
QUEST: So, I just want to focus on this because I -- you know, the more I read about the V, the more I think it's not really telling us the story.
Like we're reporting today of the number of job losses, the continuing failure of small businesses. Now, sir, as one of the best economists in the
country, tell our viewers, how can you have this V almost back to where it was, but still be losing jobs at such a high rate?
FURMAN: Yes, underneath the economy, there's a massive amount of churn, the gross job flows are enormous. So, on Friday, we'll get the jobs numbers.
Let's say we get 1 million jobs added. What really will have happened is we lost 10 million jobs, and we gained 11 million jobs. Moreover, a lot of the
jobs are gaining are people going back to their old work, they're just getting recalled, whereas people losing jobs might be losing them forever.
So, there's just tectonic plates shifting rapidly underneath the surface that is what we normally see and measure.
QUEST: Which -- right. And this -- I think this next question goes not only to the U.S., it goes to the U.K., it goes to all OECD, or at least certain
G7 countries. As we recover on nominal GDP basis, just as the headline number, is the reality that our economies are structurally weakened, longer
term as a result of what's happened?
FURMAN: I think so, I think unfortunately, yes. The more robust we are in the response now, the more we can limit the longer-term damage. But
recessions always have a lasting effect on workers, it scars them, results in lower wages. There's a lot of R&D that's not being done right now.
Within the medical sector, a lot of R&D being re channeled into COVID and away from other stuff. That's, you know, a year's worth of missing
innovations that you don't really catch up on very easily. So, yes, I think long term damage is resulting.
QUEST: Jason, I'm asking pretty much everybody this. Last night, while you were watching, who were you watching with him, and what was your -- what
was just thoughts as you're watching? Did you throw something on the screen?
FURMAN: I was watching with my 12-year-old, 13-year-old, and for the very beginning, my 5-year-old, and I was just hoping they wouldn't grow up to
behave anything like President Trump behaved last night. Sometimes they behave that way now.
QUEST: I'm sure you had serious explaining to -- I'm sure, but probably play better. I'm sure you had some serious explaining to do as the evening
wore on. Good to see you, Jason. As always, I thank you for joining us. Then, when we come back, we're going to -- actually, no, let's get you
about the U.S. airlines -- the U.S. Airlines and how things have been moving after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:40:00]
QUEST: It's the end of the month and that means it's the deadline for the CARES Act, as the Coronavirus Act which has given so many billions, tens of
billions to U.S. airlines on the condition that they didn't furlough, involuntarily furlough any staff. Now, those constraints come off. The
various airlines have said that they will have to furlough staff, if there's no more help from the government. American Airlines CEO is Doug
Parker, he spoke to Jim Sciutto, and he told him that there must be help coming if jobs are to be saved.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUG PARKER, CEO, AMERICAN AIRLINES: The last thing we want to do is furlough employees. That's why we've been fighting so hard in order to come
to an agreement. So, at any rate, hard for me to tell you until we hear -- until we know where they are. But certainly, if there's a, you know, a
clear and concrete path that says, you know, we're not quite done yet, but we will be done soon. Of course, if it's -- if it's, you know, we just --
were -- we need, you know, much more time to work and unclear as to whether that'll be -- whether we can get something done or not, that's going to be
-- that's going to be -- it's going to be much harder. So, hard for me to say until we hear more, but really encouraged by the fact that it sounds
like they're making real progress. That is absolutely the right path for airlines, and I think actually for our country.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: OK. And I imagine a lot of your employees think that's good news as well. I do want to note
that American Airlines finalized a $5.5 billion loan agreement with the government just a couple of weeks ago. This, in addition to 4.7 billion in
July. Why can't you use that money to stave off these layoffs, these furloughs?
PARKER: Well, again, that's the first -- that was those -- what just happened, the 5.5 billion is indeed from CARES 1. CARES 1 had $50 billion
for airlines, 25 billion in loans. That's what that was, just not closed. So, that's the -- simply the news from the first CARES Act getting closed.
The other piece you mentioned was the payroll support plan, which was compensation to airlines for six months to keep people employed, even
though there's not enough work for them to continue services, small cities, even though there's not enough to demand at those cities. That's what
expires tomorrow. So, again, everyone, again, agrees that that should be extended. I'm certain if there's any agreement between the Speaker and the
Secretary, that will be included, so hopefully, that's what -- that's what will happen. But that's what -- that's what's required, actually, for
payroll support to be extended as (INAUDIBLE)
SCIUTTO: The Air Transport Action Group, it's estimating that air travel will not return to its pre pandemic levels until the year 2024. I just
wonder, are you living in effect from paycheck to paycheck here, right, in terms of government support, or will you need, you and other airlines, need
to restructure fundamentally, right? I mean, that there is the reality that these jobs aren't coming back right away because the passengers aren't
coming back.
[15:45:12]
PARKER: Yes. Well, again, it's -- we don't expect, certainly, you know, six months from now demand will return to where it was pre-pandemic. But what
we do know is demand is coming back gradually, what we do is six months from now, certainly, one would expect that there are you know, things like
quarantines, you know, people working from home will be lessened. And we don't need full recovery of demand to 100 percent of what it used to be. I
mean, we need -- you know, in recessions, you don't see airlines ground aircraft like we're doing today. You know, it's so -- if indeed what I
anticipate will happen, which is we continue to see gradual and for the next six months, to where demand is much closer, you know, it doesn't need
to -- it doesn't need to be where it all the way recovered by any means.
But say, 80 percent of what it used to be, then we won't -- we would -- we would be flying all of our airplanes, we would need to employ the people
that we still have employed, and this would be sufficient. So, yes, I happen to believe that this six month extension will be sufficient for us
to, by that point, keep -- to keep everyone employed, to meet demand as it comes back, keep (INAUDIBLE) in place and not need to do this again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Doug Parker of American Airlines. So, you've heard tonight, everybody talking about the debate. I think we all had a certain feeling of
what on earth have we just been hit by? Not surprisingly on top of the pandemic job losses and everything else. It has an effect on our psyche.
After the break, the therapist is here to counsel or help us understand.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: (INAUDIBLE) already high stress last night's debate had people's heart rate climbing as monitored by phones and machines. The founding
editor of the New York Times' Well Section tweeted that she may need to meditate. The Grammy Award winning songwriter said, "cannot be good for my
health." Meanwhile, the election anxiety has been building for months. In February, 47 percent of U.S. worker said 2020 race is distracting from the
job according to a survey by (INAUDIBLE) Adam Grant is with me. The organizational psychologist, author and professor at Wharton. He joins me
from Philadelphia. Well, sir, help me, please. I mean, everybody has this anxiety, shock, whatever, as a result of last night. We need some help.
[15:50:16]
ADAM GRANT, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, I wish I could, Richard. I would say the first thing is nobody's talking about the fact that the defining experience
of 2020 is a feeling of helplessness, right? This pandemic has given us a tremendous sense of a loss of control. And now, we have to watch this
debate where we realize that even people in power, are powerless to do anything about the way the world is unfolding. And I think that's been
extremely stressful for all of us over the past day.
QUEST: And as we watched it, what would you recommend? What would you suggest to those viewers, to those of us who sort of want to know what you
actually do? When you've -- I mean, do you not watch it? Do you watch it with the volume down? Do you sort of meditate? What do you, what do you
think?
GRANT: I don't know that there any easy answers, but I would say suppressing your emotions doesn't work. We know that. They tend to
Boomerang. It's also not that helpful to just advance what works much better is either distract yourself, or if you still want to be an informed
citizen, to actually label your emotions. So, one of the things that we find in psychology is that if you can just name the feeling that you have,
whether it's shock, or anxiety, or disgust, it actually helps you distance yourself from it a little bit and then analyze it, and it doesn't give you
total power over what you're feeling but at least you regain some sense of control.
QUEST: That's a good idea. That's a very clever idea. So, so, once you're just sort of acknowledge it and, and name it. I wonder about the long-term
implications, not just about last night's debate and, and our psyche, but, you know, months of pandemic, and still sitting in my living room, even
though I've got a different background for today. And we're all worried about our jobs, we're all worried about health. And we can't see light at
the end of the tunnel at the moment. How, how unusual is this?
GRANT: I think it's become the norm rather than the exception. And we know in general, when people face adversity, one of the things they do is they
tend to project it out indefinitely. It feels like for many of us, we're ever going to be called again, or we're going to struggle to find joy at
any point in the future.
And one of the best pieces of advice that I got on this was I hosted 10 podcasts work life, and I called up Scott Kelly, the Astronaut who set the
American record for spending 340 days in space. And Scott said, look, that was a long time to live on a space station. And so, when I left Earth, I
actually had a goal to come back with the same energy and enthusiasm that I had when I left. And I think that's something we could all do, right?
The starting point is to talk with your family, with your colleagues about how you want to feel in the first week, this pandemic is over. And that has
a few effects: one is that it makes the future feel a little uncertain. Two, it can speed up your sense of time. And then three, you can work
backwards and say, OK, what do we all need to do day by day, in order to land at that place of energy and enthusiasm that we hope we can reach next
year?
QUEST: Do you foresee long term psychological down -- psychological, depression? I mean, I know we've already seen suicide numbers have risen.
We've seen people -- but do you think there's long, potential long-term psychological damage as a result of what people have been through this
year?
GRANT: I think it can go both ways, Richard. So yes, I think there will be some people who experience post-traumatic stress disorder. But there's also
a case to be made that some people experience post traumatic growth; they sense that I'm not just going to bounce back, but I could actually bounce
forward. And this is something psychologists find it over and over again, when people go through tragedy or trauma.
They often come away with a deeper sense of gratitude, right? I've never felt grateful before to eat in a restaurant, definitely going to feel that
when the pandemic is over. People end up appreciating their jobs in ways that they didn't in the past. And they also often come away with deeper
relationships and a greater sense of personal strength, like I got through that I can get through almost anything.
QUEST: Right. Finally, name for me, please, the emotions, because you said to name your emotions. Name for me the emotions or feelings that you add,
as you watch last night?
GRANT: Oh, gosh, I think I started with a sense of duty, and then I quickly went to, to shock, disgust, contempt, sadness, grief, depression, and
eventually, I landed it, OK, I have to be ready to talk about this tomorrow. So, I'm going to keep watching, which was I guess a sense of just
solemn resignation. And, Richard, the thing that I think I would say is, look, we're all feeling helpless right now about the state of the world,
maybe the state of our country.
And the best antidote to helplessness is actually helpfulness, right? So, let's find people who are struggling, maybe even just reaching out to
somebody we know well and care about and asking them what's your biggest challenge or is there anything I can do to be of support to you? And it's
one a great distraction from all the macro problems in the world. And two, it can actually restore our sense that there are places where we can make a
difference.
[15:55:20]
QUEST: Sir, so glad that we had you to talk to us tonight. I appreciate it. Thank you, Adam Grant joining us with the emotions and I'm sure many of us
felt. Thank you very much.
Now, the markets and I'm almost embarrassed to show you. Let's have a look to see what the triple stack in the DOW is doing before we go for a break.
It's almost embarrassing, because when we're talking about such devastation elsewhere, and we turn around and we see the markets roaring up, not as bad
-- yes, there we go. Up 1/3 percent for the DOW. The NASDAQ is up one percent. You'd hardly know there had been a fiasco of political proportions
last night. We will have a "PROFITABLE MOMENT" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's "PROFITABLE MOMENT," I very much wanted us to have tonight's discussion about the mental health aspects of all of this, not
because there's anything greatly amusing, of course, there isn't. But you know, we've all come into this out of this pandemic. We are worried about
friends and family ourselves at Isles. You'll be familiar with my own tails on that. We have serious concerns about our own financial well-being; our
jobs, those who've lost them, those have kept them.
And we are worried about, for example, the state of race relations, and that's not just in the United States. But if you look at the E.U., if you
look at the U.K., where there's Brexit. There are these multitude of issues. And onto the top of all of this, you have last night's fiasco. It
was horrible to watch. You don't need me to tell you that. But it does increase the pressure that we are now all feeling that something is wrong,
and nobody's there to put it right.
That vacuum in leadership, that Rich Lessor was talking about tonight. Well, the good news is, we may not be able to put it right, but each night,
at this time, you and I come together to put the economic world right or at least we try to, and that, perhaps, will not -- it won't change. We'll
still be here tomorrow, talking about economics, business and helping make it all look a little bit better.
[16:00:00]
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. And whenever you're actually in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable.
The bells ringing. The day is done.
END
