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Quest Means Business

U.S., European Markets Fall as COVID Crisis Deepens; U.S. Unemployment Claims Show Weakening Job Market; Thailand Bans Public Gatherings As Protests Swell; Harris Suspends Travel After Two Linked To Campaign Test Positive; Queen Makes First Public Appearance Since Pandemic; Networks And Candidates Compete In Dueling Town Halls. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 15, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:29]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS HOST: Going into the last hour of trading on Wall Street and it is a difficult day. The market is trying to find some

purchase and is failing, although it's picked up in the last half hour or so. But it was down on the back of the economic woes -- the coronavirus

woes that seems to be everywhere at the moment.

The day so far. This is what we're looking at. The E.U. Infectious Disease Chief admits on this program, Europe has failed to contain the virus. The

head of Europe C.D.C. tells me shutdowns are no magic bullet.

The jobless claims numbers in the U.S. are trending in the wrong direction. We need to ask what happens next.

And while Donald Trump and Joe Biden prepare for rival Town Halls, the TV networks are doing a dueling for the 8:00 p.m. hour.

Live from New York on Thursday. It is October the 15th. I'm Richard Quest and yes, of course, I mean business.

Good evening. We start tonight with the debate that is being discussed in every country, especially in Europe and the United States and every state.

It is the issue of lives versus livelihoods.

As tonight, we tell you'll hear from not only the head of the C.D.C. equivalent in Europe, but also the head of the O.E.C.D., the lives versus

livelihood debate, which goes to the heart of the way forward to beat, battle and recover from the coronavirus pandemic.

Tonight, Europe's COVID crisis is accelerating with the grim reality setting in for investors. The markets are now starting to have a firm

wobble and alarm bells are ringing across European and U.S. markets, all firmly in the red with investors piling in to safe havens like gold and

government bonds.

And in London, the latest major European capital to tighten restrictions where they are raising the alert level to high only hours after Paris

announced curfews, some 80 percent of European countries are now seeing rises in cases.

Phil Black is in London. London has now become the latest to see its status rise. But Phil, in practical terms, what are the changes that need to take

that have taken place.

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's by no means a lockdown, Richard, but what it is, is a significant blow to people's

personal lives during what is already a very difficult time.

The key change here is that from Saturday, it will be illegal for people who don't live together to mix together indoors. So what that means is that

you can't hang out with family and friends in homes, in bars, restaurants, cafes, any indoor location, which means accessing those key important

relationships and maintaining them. Well, it's going to be much harder for the people of London and the other areas of England that are now moving in

to that tier-two, that high risk area.

In theory, people can still get together outdoors, in parks and gardens and so forth like this one. But that's not going to be really as practical as

the winter deepens, as the days get colder and shorter -- Richard.

QUEST: Phil, the U.K., like Paris and large parts of France and now Germany is suffering from this rising number of cases pretty much to where we were

earlier in the year. Is there a feeling that the government has lost control here?

BLACK: I think there is a degree of acceptance in certain areas that the virus is now out of control. That's what we're seeing.

We're seeing all the key markers trending in the wrong direction. Almost 19,000 new cases confirmed today across the U.K. There's around 150,000

people spread out across U.K.'s hospitals at the moment being treated for coronavirus. All this means is that it is growing, yes, but it is not

growing at the same rate everywhere.

There are clear hotspots of which say London has been identified as one today. And so that is why the government is pushing for this regional

tiered approach. And it believes that it is the right balance in terms of suppressing the virus, but maintaining wherever possible as much freedom

and as much economic freedom as possible.

[15:05:26]

BLACK: But while the government is pushing that approach, there is a growing lobby of people who object to that and say the time has come,

including we've heard from the government's own scientific advisers, the time has come for what they call a circuit break lockdown. Two to three,

maybe four weeks of a national lockdown, so that everyone can take the time to reassess, catch some breathing space, and slow down the virus enough and

get organized in order to deal with the coming winter period.

That is what we are particularly hearing from northern regions in England that the government is now trying to nudge into the highest level of

lockdown. But they are resisting that because they believe that it is not appropriate, that it won't work, that it's a flawed plan, and they don't

believe they're getting the economic support they need in order to make that work.

So there is something of a standoff in this country at the moment, Richard, between those who believe the regional approach is appropriate and those

who want a stronger national, perhaps short-term lockdown in order to try and get ahead of this virus ahead of winter.

QUEST: Phil black who is in London. The question of targeted lockdowns, well, the head of the European Infectious Diseases Center says that

targeted lockdowns are not the answer. They are not a magic bullet that will put right the problem.

The latest measures to limit nightlife, indoor mixing at home, according to the E.C.D.C., these measures won't single handedly stop the spread. In

other words, it'll be stronger testing and tracing, the traditional mechanisms that are key to long term containment.

I spoke to Andrea Ammon earlier and asked her whether or not these lockdowns even though they're not a magic bullet, will they be enough?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREA AMMON, DIRECTOR, EUROPEAN CENTER FOR DISEASE PREVENTION AND CONTROL: The basis of these measures in March and April was that, you know, it was a

package. You know, it was everything was stopped and everything came to a standstill and it worked very well because it was within weeks, we were

down to 20 percent of the cases.

But it, of course, also had severe complications and side effects on society, on the mental health of people and the economy, of course, and

with the measures now are more refined, in principle, they are still targeting reduced meeting of people and distance, but it's now more

targeted to specific actions.

QUEST: Do we know -- and I'm not sure this is something the E.C.D.C. even looks at as opposed to national governments -- do we know those social

situations are of most concern?

AMMON: I think it's any situation that is bringing people close together. I think that what is what we have to assume, and it is just that the measures

now they look, they are more refined in order to avoid the blunt instrument that has been used in March and April.

QUEST: Do you believe that they will be sufficient? Or are we inevitably realistically going to require bigger, longer lockdowns?

AMMON: I think that is what -- bigger, longer lockdown is what everybody wants to avoid. So, I think we are now in a phase where these measures are

applied, we have to see unfortunately for a longer period of two to four weeks to see an effect because of the long incubation period. So we will --

we cannot say yet whether this will work.

QUEST: The reason I pushed this point is because in various countries, measures have been taken and I agree it is political oppositions that are

saying this, various measures are being taken. But already the experts say this is not going to be enough. The measures are being more in hope than

expectation.

So are you satisfied that the measures being taken will be sufficient? They are necessary, but will they be sufficient or is it your gut feeling law is

going to be required?

[15:10:10]

AMMON: Well, the point is, I have said this before, these so-called non- pharmaceutical interventions or more popular, lockdown measures are not a magic bullet. So they alone will not control the epidemic.

What is necessary in parallel is that all efforts are made to find cases, to identify contact persons quickly, put them in quarantine if they had

high risk contact and have a reporting system in place that really tracks cases fast. I think that is essential to have in place in parallel to all

of these measures. These measures alone will not do the job.

QUEST: But Director, we are failing here. I mean, not you, but as a society in our countries, we are failing to get a grip on COVID.

AMMON: Yes, I think it's certainly a very difficult virus to control. I mean, that is something that was known even before that a virus that is

easily transmitted to from human to human via the air and can be transmitted by asymptomatic people is extremely difficult, if not

impossible to really control completely.

I mean, what we need here is really that everybody in the population understands that their behavior makes the difference.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: That's the Director of the E.C.D.C. and the view on the lives side of the argument, if we look at the livelihood side of the argument, and we

remember, of course, it's not a zero sum game. Let's turn to the O.E.C.D. You're about to hear from the head of the O.E.C.D., who says that the

economic damage is unprecedented from what's taking place.

The organization itself, the O.E.C.D. is a 37-member international body comprising of course of the advanced economic economies, developing

economic and social policy. It's roughly half of the global GDP, and it works with non-members like China, India, and Brazil.

Angel Gurria is the O.E.C.D. Secretary General, in Paris. You were listening there to the Director of the E.C.D.C., Angel, now the issue

becomes whether or not the economic damage, the measures being taken are sufficient to mitigate much of the problem.

ANGEL GURRIA, SECRETARY GENERAL, O.E.C.D.: There has been a very strong response. But obviously, the measures are not enough. And second, the

measures cannot start and then stop because obviously, there's still a lot of support that has to be provided.

So let's not make the same mistake we made in 2008-2009 to withdraw the support, withdraw this efforts too soon, because otherwise, we'll have to

pay a very, very heavy price for it.

QUEST: But where do you stand, Secretary General, where do you stand on this question of, you know, avoiding the full lockdown because it will be

particularly damaging, if not devastating to the global economy to do this a second time. So in a sense, we are now risking lives, because we are

reluctant on livelihoods.

GURRIA: Frankly, the dilemma between lives and livelihoods was a false dilemma in the first wave, and it is a false dilemma today. What we have to

do, and now the fact that we have a second wave is the best evidence that we have, is throw everything we've got at beating the enemy, at beating the

virus.

We do not yet have a vaccine. Let's push very hard and again, everything we've got to develop a vaccine, to develop a medicine, but in the meantime,

do everything that we know in order to beat the virus. That is then going to mitigate the cost, the economic and social consequence if we beat the

virus sooner rather than later.

[15:15:04]

QUEST: At what point though do you become worried global -- I mean, we had Gita Gopinath from the I.M.F., who you know very well on the program, and I

was asking her about whether or not GDP debt that is over 100 percent is a worry.

Everybody says, keep spending, but now we're starting to hear from Joe Biden, more taxes; from in the U.K., more taxes. At what point does this

spending become a problem?

GURRIA: Right now, Richard, we have to keep investing, not spending in beating the virus. This is the best short term, the best medium term, and

the best long term investment that we can make.

Then after that, what we will have to deal is with the consequences, but there will be smaller consequences or not as heavy consequences or not as

onerous consequences, because we beat the virus easier and/or faster, or, you know, earlier.

QUEST: I saw your numbers on what you're predicting for global GDP, basically, down roughly say four percent, give or take. But what's -- but

that doesn't tell the full story as we've discussed on this program. It is this K-shaped recovery. Those without and those in poverty are getting

worse. Those who've got assets, portfolios, and resources are recovering, and in some cases doing well.

So how does policy need to change?

GURRIA: It needs to be more selective going forward. In the beginning, it was inevitable, you know, you'll throw resources in anything that moved,

and you know, the informal labor, the people who are losing the employment and the small and medium enterprises, the tourism sector, et cetera.

Right now, you have to be more selective, first of all, because you don't have resources to support any of the frail industries, but also, because

there will be sectors, which may not be able to recover as we know them today. There will be companies that may not be able to survive as we know

them today. There will be jobs that we might not be able to save simply by, you know, throwing money at them, because it will no longer be viable.

So yes, there will have to be a reallocation of resources. There will also have to be choices to be made, which are always difficult choices. But we

have to be much more selective in this second round when we fight against the virus.

QUEST: Angel Gurria, it is always good to have you, sir. You're looking well and that's good, too. Thank you for joining us on QUEST MEANS

BUSINESS.

GURRIA: And congratulations on a very happy occurrence, a very happy event.

QUEST: Thank you, referring of course because I got married at the weekend. Thank you very much, Angel. It's good to have you.

GURRIA: Indeed.

QUEST: Thank you, sir. Now, when we come back after the break, Angel was talking there about jobs, and the targeting of jobs. We will have the CEO

of Manpower, who will join us on exactly where the jobs are being lost, the nonviable jobs.

And the viability very much on the stock market of BTS, the boy band that has now gone public, and a roaring success. Back to the news, in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:07]

QUEST: The U.S. markets and how they've traded. They've got a lot on their minds at the moment, and the recent strong rallies seem to have evaporated

for the time being. Look at how today went.

Today was low at the start. And then it slowly picked up throughout the course of the afternoon. We're at the best of the day, and this is despite

the stalled stimulus talks and the weakening job recovery, 900,000 first time claims last week. It is up from the previous week when the economists

have looked for a decline.

Julia Chatterley is with me. Julia, I mean, the numbers are what they are. And it's not surprising. But we are all having a better day than first of

all -- I am interested, very interested in what Angel Gurria, I'm not sure whether you were able to hear him, talking about the necessity for targeted

stimulus and job creation plans, recognizing that many jobs may no longer be viable are not worth actually protecting.

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, "FIRST MOVE": I couldn't agree more with him. The first stimulus package that we did, Richard, was just about

getting the money out there. Now, we recognize that if you put the hands -- if you put money in the hands of small businesses, they retain workers.

If you invest, and he made a specific difference there between spending and investing, if you invest in ways to provide protections for people, for

businesses, to allow people to safely go into their businesses and to protect people to invest in testing, you will see less spending going

forward. Otherwise, you have to buy the recovery in the absence of a plan, Richard.

As we've discussed, tackle the virus, you have to spend more to buy the recovery.

QUEST: Is it you're feeling looking at the market, and I know it's sort of you know, lick your finger and see which way the winds blow on any given

day, but is there a feeling that there's a dose of reality, permeating investors fixed goals, or at least the market's thick skull, that this is

not going to be over by Christmas?

CHATTERLEY: You mean the virus isn't going to be over by Christmas? Yes, I think the market knows that. I think the market is waiting on a vaccine and

I think that's the most important thing, in terms of a determinant of sentiment.

What I also think the market is pricing in here is stimulus at some point. Investors know they can wait for that financial aid package. The problem

is, the real economy can't wait. And actually, that's what the job states today told me, Richard. The real economy is still struggling. Investors can

wait for when the next package arrives.

QUEST: Finally, Julia, I'm going to throw you a big question for a brief answer, always the way. Julia, the election, I can't work out where it fits

in to all of this.

CHATTERLEY: I think, and Goldman Sachs said it this week, and I agree. The vaccine outweighs earnings season right now and the fundamentals, it

outweighs political risk. We have priced out some of the concern, I think about instability after the election not getting a result and I think just

somebody winning this selection, which is what the polls are suggesting, is allowing investors to be a little bit more complacent about the election.

QUEST: Julia, good to see you. Have a good program tomorrow. Thank you. Julia Chatterley from "First Move."

Jonas Prising is with me, the CEO of ManpowerGroup, as we digest this information and look at the jobs.

The numbers suggesting that the jobless claims, I was going to say, a stalling with arguably getting worse as a second wave now starts to hit the

United States.

JONAS PRISING, CEO, MANPOWERGROUP: I think I would express it as the rate of improvement is clearly slowing down. So when you think about it,

Richard, in February, the unemployment rate in the United States was 3.5 percent, and then at the worst part of the pandemic, it was over 14 percent

and now it's back down to 7.8 percent. So it's clearly improved.

[15:25:10]

PRISING: But the rate of improvement as you can see from the new unemployment claims has really stalled whilst the continuous employment

claims continue to come down. So the labor market is continuing to get better, but the rate of improvement is clearly slowing down.

QUEST: I was interested in your survey and studies. I was looking at it, 31 percent of employers that you talked to believe that the hiring won't

return to predictive -- to pre-pandemic levels until June 2021 or never.

In other words, this -- it's back to this point, I keep harping on about with Angel Gurria and with Julia, it is back to this idea of viable jobs

and we don't really know the full ramifications of that.

PRISING: Well, I think it is back to the idea that we're faced with a slow, uneven and gradual recovery, both in the economy and in the labor markets,

and within that recovery, you will have winners and losers.

And for a while, you will have losers that are going to be permanent losers where the jobs are not going to be available, but you will also have

current losers that will see a resurgence of employment as the vaccine comes out and the situation improves.

And the numbers you cited there, Richard, are you know, we did the same numbers we looked at. We did the same survey five months ago. And at that

point, employers were -- more than half of the employers were saying no, no, we think things are going to come back to normal by the end of the

year. So that was what the majority thought then.

Moving forward, just five months later, you know, only a third of them believe it will be quick and many -- the majority now thinks it'll be

longer and take more time than they originally thought. So clearly, moving from a V-shaped recovery to more of a U-shaped recovery.

QUEST: That V to U when at the same time as we've got the K involved with those who are doing well versus not. But I want to get your quick take on

this idea of working from home. Now, I'm still working from home, even though it looks otherwise, I'm not sure whether you're at home, you look

like you've got a nice bit of art on the back walls, I suspect you might be at home.

I mean, all we all settled in? You saw Microsoft's announcement that certain people will be able to work from home permanently. How much of this

is a true permanent shift in work in practice?

PRISING: I think the permanent shift is the realization both from an employee perspective and from an employer perspective. But frankly, the

technology that we've had, you know, at our fingertips for many years, can make a very significant shift in how we engage with the workplace.

But what we don't believe is that this shift is going to lead to a massive shift to remote working as a whole, but rather that it's going to be the

response that workers have asked for many years, and we know it's one of the things that they desire the most, which is flexibility to work in a way

that fits within their work life and their personal lives.

And I think that is going to be the lasting legacy of this pandemic, that worker flexibility and the choices that they have and employer's comfort

level at making those choices available to them is going to be the new normal, and that's going to be very beneficial for employees that can

combine personal and work life in a much better way, and also for employers as they look at the benefits of the way of working.

But I do believe that most employers and employees in the end want to have a level of interaction with their colleagues so that they can drive the

business forward. It's just going to look a little bit different, but we don't believe that there's a tidal wave over remote working coming on a

permanent basis.

This is a reaction to a health crisis and an economic crisis that eventually we'll find its way somewhere in the middle again.

QUEST: Jonas, thank you. Good to have you on the program. Always lovely to hear your views on this. Thank you for joining us this evening.

Now, in just a moment, the country that is doing the best in the in Europe or the E.E.A., we will have the Prime Minister of Norway. Look at the

numbers and whatever Norway is doing right, one begs the question, why don't other countries follow? It has the lowest rate of infections on the

continent, in a moment.

[15:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello. I'm Richard Quest. There's a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS coming up. We'll have the Prime Minister of Norway. He'll join me after the

news headlines as we discuss what Norway's done that's given it the lowest rate of infections 14-day moving average in the -- on the continent.

And also, BTS, the boy band, the BTS boy band IPO and it's all a roaring success. You have to wait for BTS at least until after the news headlines

because this is CNN. And on this network, the news it always comes first.

The World Health Organization says about 80 percent of European countries are seeing a rise in COVID cases. On Wednesday, Italy record its highest

daily increasing cases since the beginning of the pandemic. London and Paris have imposed tighter restrictions to combat the spread.

Thailand's government has issued an emergency decree banning gatherings of more than five people in Bangkok. It's designed to stifle prodemocracy

demonstrations that have gripped the country for months. This (INAUDIBLE) several protest leaders after thousands of people marched on Wednesday

calling for the resignation of the Prime Minister.

Joe Biden's running mate is canceling travel plans through Sunday after two people associated with the campaign just positive for coronavirus. Kamala

Harris says she did not have close contact with those infected and does tested negative herself. She's staying off the trail for a few days as an

abundance of caution.

The Queen has made her first public appearance since the start of the pandemic. She met scientists at the frontlines of the U.K.'s pandemic

response. After consulting her medics, the Queen did not wear a mask. A royal source said all necessary precautions were taken. The second wave is

sweeping across the European country but one country it seems to be weathering that storm better than most.

[15:35:05]

It is, of course, Norway. If you look at the latest numbers, Norway is remains relatively unscathed. It has the lowest rate of new infections in

Europe. And compare that with the AUC quite clearly that Norway is way down there. The European Union is well over 150 and Sweden next door neighbor,

which of course went to the herd immunity is high as well. The problem is Sweden and Norway share a 1600-kilometer border.

And Norway's requiring all people from Sweden and all countries shown in red to quarantine upon entry. Through Greenland and parts of Finland are

next. But pretty much most of the close European Union is. Erna Solberg is the Norwegian Prime Minister and joins me from Oslo. Prime Minister, it is

good to have you and I appreciate you taking time in very busy days. And the core point here is - and I have the numbers in front of me, Norway,

your 14-day cumulative number 400,000 is 35.2 versus the Czech Republic has 660. Two sides of the spectrum. What are -- what have you done in Norway

that's giving such success?

ERNA SOLBERG, PRIME MINISTER OF NORWAY: Well, we have closely been following our numbers. And we've been both tracing the origin of every

people who get sick, everybody that I've met, we have quarantine people. And we have this strategy of when you have a local outbreak, we are putting

a lot of things in force to make sure that it doesn't increase. And we will have outbreaks in different cities and parts of the country.

We do have a larger number in Oslo but overall, we seem that local governments in Norway together with their national government is handling

the tracing of the infection, stopping it counting and isolating people. And then we get good numbers, I think -- but it's a -- it's a costly and of

course, a manpower, intensive work the way we are doing it.

QUEST: This idea though, if I was to talk -- if I was to talk to any Prime Minister in the E.U. or the U.K., they would tell me that they have tests

and trace in place. But they've got this, that and the other, they would make all the same noises. But their results are very different. So again,

you know, what do you think that you've done right in that sense or from your observation, were you stricter in opening up in the way you handle the

opening up?

SOLBERG; We were stricter in the beginning because we had a large influx that came from winter holiday places in Italy and Austria. We got -- we

were on -- I think number four on the list in March of people infected, we managed to put in place a lot of strict measures at that time. And the

Norwegian people responded by being good at social distancing, make -- taking their own precautions.

We didn't have to stop that much of the economic activity that a lot of other countries and because people are really following the rules and

regulations. And I think still we are blessed with the fact that people have trust in their government trust in their local authorities and that

they are following the rules and regulations and using social distancing as their most important measure that you can have.

QUEST: You're the second person on this program tonight to talk about trusting their government, the head of the ECDC, who you may well be

familiar with said exactly that. Do you think many countries are paying the price of a deficit in trust?

SOLBERG: Well, I think yes, in one way or the other thing is that we have - - we of course have seen which parts of our societies are more vulnerable. Of course, people who are in low income, where the -- where the housing

conditions are different and more difficult, migrant workers and our minorities and we've tried to work very closely with health personnel with

minority background themselves to reach out to -- the minority groups in Norway to make sure that they also can listen to the information that you

have to understand that in a more diverse society, not everybody is following Norwegian news and vision press conferences.

They will have to be reached by other measures. And I think that also makes it easier for us. We are a small country; we are transparent and -- but we

are also quite conscious on the fact that we need to make our information and our knowledge accessible to people and minorities.

[15:40:04]

QUEST: All right. But (INAUDIBLE) and you've raised the issue of seafarers, cruise on ships. Now, this was something I didn't quite realize that there

are still 800,000 towards a million people floating around on ships delivering the valuable cargoes and medicines and PPEs that we all need.

But because they don't have essential worker status, they can't disembark in port doesn't seem fair, Prime Minister.

SOLBERG: It's not fair. And it's going to become a more increasing problem for world economy for business because some of these folks can't in fact do

their job anymore because their workers have to be changed. They can't continue to say like this. And what we will do is that that will -- that

will, in fact, increase the costs, it will increase our problems with delivering goods. And I think this is a part of a very large economic

problem that we have to deal with.

And that's why I believe that all countries should make sure that this is possible to change. The seafarers on the boats will be -- is important for

the seafarers and their families. But it's also important for business.

Prime Minister, very grateful that you're taking time to talk to us today. Thank you. The Prime Minister of Norway joining me there.

Now, tonight in the United States, there's a television event that you won't want to miss, but you're going to have to miss one of them. Biden and

Trump town halls at the same time. Who came first and who should have changed? After the break. It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS and you're most

welcome.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: All right. So, forget the ability to tape or TiVo or do whatever it is people do with digital recordings. Tonight at 8:00 p.m. in the United

States, you have a choice to make. Do you wish to watch a town hall with the president of United States Donald Trump or with his opponent? The

former Vice President Joe Biden. You can't watch them both at the same time where you can if you've got two T.V.s, but let's not go there. You know

what I'm talking about.

The candidates are holding jeweling town halls. To be fair, Biden was first on ABC after Trump walked out of the debate, or the virtual debate.

[15:45:04]

Trump then came along on NBC. It was supposed to be a town hall debate to compare the two. Instead, there are separate platforms. But as Newt

Gingrich might have said, the Donald Trump, he did say he is the executive producer now of the largest, most significant reality T.V. show in the

world. He'll be delighted by tonight, who'll get the most viewers? Who will watch? But it's been like this since the start of his candidacy, his

nomination, and his presidency.

Let's go back through the T.V. Presidency of Donald Trump. It started right at the beginning with that escalator. The escalator down Trump Tower in

2015, when he described Mexican immigrants (INAUDIBLE) cases as drug traffickers and rapists and the like. Then, you had the high filled

suspense cabinet picks. The bachelor-style Supreme Court nominations. I'll tell you tomorrow. Is it going to be X? We're seeing more, but we'll tell

you later. Reality T.V. instincts took over as 2020 intensified, tear gassing protesters for a photo op outside the D.C. church. And then, don't

cry for me COVID victims, the Evita moment on the balcony of the hospitalization for COVID-19.

Brian Stelter, Chief media correspondent. Brian, the idea for this item in tonight's program in that way came from your morning newsletter that raised

exactly that issue when I was reading it over my morning toast. And Donald Trump has got his T.V. moment tonight.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: He does. This is what he does. He creates these made for T.V. moments. He thinks the ratings are the

most important metric. Unfortunately, they are not -- or unfortunately, they are not. The more important metric right now are the polls, the

President is losing in all the major polls, so he needs to appeal to a broader swath of the country. Maybe he can do that on NBC tonight.

But I'm very skeptical, Richard, because everything we've seen from the president, every single day, is an appeal to the base. Earlier today, he

called the NB -- he trashed NBC. He attacked Comcast, the parent company, and he made fun of Savannah Guthrie, the host of this event. So, that's

typical Donald, no signs of him changing his tone a head of the town hall.

QUEST: Why? Why would you do it? This is what I don't understand. If you're going to be on NBC tonight, why would you -- you're our chief media

correspondent, why would you trash the network and the anchor that's going to be questioning you tonight?

STELTER: Well, I think, number one, he speaks to different audiences at different times. So, he was speaking to his Fox News audience this

afternoon, saying that NBC is a con job. He was also suggesting that it's all going to be a setup. So, he was giving excuses in case it doesn't go

well. He's working the refs ahead of time, and giving excuses, so that, you know, if the questions are hard, if he has a bad performance, he can say it

was all set up. And that's typical Trump as well.

QUEST: Brian, should NBC firstly have scheduled this at all? And secondly, scheduled it against ABC? ABC was first out of the gate in what -- in what

they've done. Was it wrong, as the New York Times says today that, you know, that the viewers, the American voter is poor as a result?

STELTER: Yes, this is a clear misstep by Cesar Conde, the head of the NBC News group. He's been in the job for a few months now. This is a high-

profile misstep by him. Maybe it was his underlings. Maybe it was lieutenants that made this decision. But his name is on the statement today

saying, look, we share in the frustration that these events are happening at the same time. NBC's excuse is that Biden was on a town hall on NBC at

8:00 p.m. last week. So, the network says it's giving Trump the exact same treatment this time. That's the excuse, but it doesn't really add up. There

are a lot of other nights at 8:00 p.m. that Trump could have had a town hall in NBC.

It seems that the President wants this head-to-head matchup with Biden and NBC is giving the president what he wants. And that's why so many staffers

inside the network are complaining to me and other reporters saying, this feels like collusion. It feels like NBC is colluding with the President.

Why are we doing this? There's a lot of internal -- inside turmoil. But at the end of the day, these two town halls are going to happen. They're going

to happen at the same time. And ultimately, Richard, viewers are the losers, because there should have been a real debate. There should have

been a real debate between these two men, but instead, they're going to be talking past each other, which is kind of a symbol of our divided media

landscape.

QUEST: You summed it up beautifully, as always, so grateful. Brian Stelter, thank you for joining us. OK. BTS IPO, what will happen next, after the

break?

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: From K-pop to IPO pop. The label for BTS went public on Thursday. And it was as they say, dynamite.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: The international powerhouse has sold more physical albums in this year -- in the U.S. this year than even Justin Bieber, Harry Styles, or

Billie Eilish. It's the biggest IPO in South Korea for two years, three years. The stock closed 90 percent above IPO with $7-1/2-billion valuation

for Big Hit Entertainment. The band members, of course, are now rich beyond avarice. The tens of millions, and yet, never let it be said, the stock

market can't turn nasty. Paula Hancocks is in Seoul.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Everything this band touches seems to turn to gold. BTS is South Korea's most well-known

boyband, shooting to the top of the Billboard chart last month, a feat no other Korean artist has achieved.

JUNGKOOK, BTS MEMBER (through translator): It still doesn't feel 100 percent real. More so because right now, we can't perform in front of

people, in front of our fans.

HANCOCKS: The next chapter, IPO. BTS's management, Big Hit Entertainment, is listing the company on South Korea Stock Exchange, a move that values

the company at more than $4 billion, more than the next three top K-pop agencies combined. In today's strong market, some investors will flock to

buy the shares including the band's hardcore fan base.

KIM EUN-HEE, BTS FAN (through translator): I'm eager to pick up one or two shares even if it's just one, so I pulled my money and plan to put in 150

million won. I want to get closer to BTS as one team and help them. Big deal for Big Hits, but some worry that they are too reliant on just one

act.

PARK JU-GUN, BUSINESS ANALYST (through translator): 90 percent of Big Hit Entertainment's revenue is from BTS, so the risk is there, but it has

started to shift its revenue structure to a multifaceted portfolio.

HANCOCKS: Big Hit says it has created an ecosystem of artists, apps, and content.

BANG SI-HYUK, CEO, BIG HIT ENTERTAINMENT: We drove profit not only through the album and music, but online concerts, official merchandise, multimedia

content and more.

[15:55:00]

HANCOCKS: Military Service looms for all seven members of the group, but they could use another international K-pop group, Big Bang, as a model,

solo careers. Some also question the timing of the IPO in the middle of a global pandemic, but the market sees it as a sign that the company can only

go up as the world recovers.

PARK (through translator): If the company is highly valued now in the midst of a pandemic, it will be an opportunity to gain even more momentum next

year post-pandemic.

HANCOCKS: In a rare move for the industry, Big Hit has given more than $7 million worth of shares to each member of the band, a share of the success

and perhaps a guarantee for the future. Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: And we will have a "PROFITABLE MOMENT" after the break. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tonight's "PROFITABLE MOMENT." Angel Gurria talked about lives versus livelihoods said it was a false choice, a false dilemma, to believe

it has to be one or the other. The problem is, that has been an argument that's happened since the beginning in the original lockdowns back in March

and April. Back then, it was a simple choice, everybody locked down to try and quell the virus. The difficulty is, of course, it didn't really work.

It did in the short term, but now as we go into a second or third wave, the question becomes, how much more difficult and what more needs to be done?

And with that comes the issue, lives versus livelihoods.

But it's a more nuanced question now because hospitals aren't full. And the -- those who are getting infected are the young, and they seem better able

to withstand the rigors of coronavirus. So, do we shut down large swathes of the economy to protect lives when we know that in many cases jobs will

be lost? Well, the answer seems to be what Gurria said and what the ECDC said, what all our guests have said; you have to do more targeted

shutdowns. Rishi Sunak, the British Chancellor of the Exchequer, talked about not protecting viable jobs, letting some go. All of which brings us

back to square one, which is there are no easy answers. I know that sounds so obvious. But as we continually battle lives versus livelihoods on any

given day, one we'll see more relevant than the other. When in truth be told, they're pretty much the same. And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for

tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. "THE LEAD" is next.

END