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Quest Means Business
Did Netanyahu Meet With MBS?; U.S. Heads Into Its Busiest Travel Week; White Sharks Reveal Their MO; Airlines Shares Up After AstraZeneca Announcement
Aired November 23, 2020 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:57]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Sixty minutes left of trading on Wall Street, and it's a buoyant mood for the Dow Jones
Industrials. It's up over 365 points. It's all about vaccines and that's what's propelling the market more than -- or about 1.25 percent higher.
The day so far, AstraZeneca becomes the latest drug maker to announce an effective COVID vaccine.
Donald trump continues to dispute the election results. Joe Biden is pressing on with his Cabinet picks. We'll talk about that.
And Israelis say Benjamin Netanyahu did pay a historic visit to the Saudi Crown Prince. The Saudis say, he didn't. Whichever it is, we'll get to the
bottom of it, we hope.
Live from New York, on Monday, November 23rd, I'm Richard Quest, and yes, I mean business.
Good evening. The big story today in both in terms of economics and coronavirus, a third vaccine has crossed the finish line. AstraZeneca says
its data shows the vaccine developed in conjunction with the University of Oxford is 70 percent effective on average. We'll explain why they're saying
that in a moment.
The company also says it could make up to three billion doses next year and it is seeking approval from regulators for emergency use.
AstraZeneca's vaccine, perhaps the real breakthrough for developing economies for the simple reason it's cheaper and easier to distribute than
those developed by Pfizer and Moderna. We've talked about before, they have 90 percent efficacy.
AstraZeneca is less effective on the average. The drug maker says its data includes different dosing regimens. Now, there you see the -- basically,
there's a way in which AstraZeneca says it does get its efficacy up to 90 percent.
But look at the price differential. $3.00 to $4.00 a shot versus $32.00 to $37.00 or $20.00 for the others. And perhaps this is the most important,
AstraZeneca's vaccine can also be stored with normal refrigeration as opposed to sub-freezing temperatures.
CNN's senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, joins us from Atlanta. Now, look, Elizabeth, I don't want to get into -- too much into the weeds
here, but if we look at this dosing difference that we're talking about, it actually seems if -- if you split them into two doses, but give less the
first time, you get a better efficacy of 90 percent. That's counterintuitive.
I'd have thought you'd have gotten more if you did both at the top.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Richard, it's so counterintuitive that when I speak to experts about this, they're like,
huh? How does that happen?
They want to know the details about how you got better results with a lower first dose. It doesn't completely make sense. It doesn't mean that it
didn't happen. It doesn't completely make sense, so they want an explanation, which AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford have not given.
And actually, the experts that I spoke to, and these are folks who serve on C.D.C. and F.D.A. advisory committees, they actually have quite a few
questions for AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford because remember when we were in school, when you came to a conclusion in Math, you came to
an answer, you had to show their work.
AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford did not always show their work when they reached their conclusion, so let's a look at what that conclusion
was and compare it to Pfizer and Moderna, the other two that you mentioned.
So AstraZeneca and Oxford say they have 70 percent efficacy that's based on a 12,000-person study. So, two thoughts on that, 12,000, not as big as the
other ones; 70 percent, not as big as the other ones. And also, AstraZeneca did not explain how they got to that number. They don't give the raw data
that gets you there.
Moderna and Pfizer, when they announced their results early this month, they did show how they got to their percentages and those percentages were
about 95 percent for each of them. Moderna's study trial was 30,000 people. Pfizer's was 44,000. So much larger trials.
And larger trials are, by and large, better. It gives you more confidence in the data.
So, AstraZeneca still has a way to go here. Their trial in the U.S., which involves tens of thousands of people, is still ongoing. We don't know those
results yet.
So, AstraZeneca is not at the end here. They still, as I said, have a ways to go -- Richard.
[15:05:28]
QUEST: Elizabeth Cohen, thank you. Elizabeth Cohen joining us there.
Earlier, CNN spoke to the head of Oxford University's Jenner Institute which worked with AstraZeneca to develop the vaccine. Adrian Hill explained
more about those different doses Elizabeth was talking about.
But the crucial thing, in terms of delivering the vaccine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADRIAN HILL, DIRECTOR, JENNER INSTITUTE, OXFORD UNIVERSITY: It's really the choice of the end user whether you give the one regime or the other,
because it's very easy to give half a dose, and we've discussed this with the Department of Health in the U.K. They are very confident that's going
to be straightforward.
So that's not a logistic challenge and of course, it's dose sparing. So you may be aware that AstraZeneca have taken on contracts to manufacture as
many as three billion doses of this vaccine over the next 12 months, which would be absolutely extraordinary and fantastic.
But if you could use the half-dose regime, that three billion would suddenly become 4.5 billion doses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Investors celebrating AstraZeneca's news. The Dow is at more than 300 points. It's a strong start to the week.
With Moderna, with Pfizer, with AstraZeneca, the shares of cruise lines and airlines are moving higher on the hopes that the travel industry will start
moving again.
My next guest is a former President of the World Bank who has overseen groundbreaking work in ending poverty and supporting the fight against
Ebola. He directed the World Health Organization's HIV-AIDS Department. He is the cofounder of Partners in Health, Dr. Jim Yong Kim joins me from New
York.
Doctor, it is good to see you. It is always good to have you with us.
Three vaccines with the prospect of more to come and they are all showing remarkable levels of efficacy. Now, I know that it's going to be sometime
before they get into the distribution stream. But can we now say that the - - that we are now looking at the beginning of the end?
DR. JIM YONG KIM, VICE CHAIR, GLOBAL INFRASTRUCTURE PARTNERS: Well, this is all really great news, Richard. I mean, we're -- I was really quite
surprised at the levels of efficacy. And so, you know, what we now know is that they're efficacious, and specifically, these things work in the
controlled experimental setting.
The next issue, its effectiveness. It's a word that -- there are two different words that we use in medicine. Effectiveness means, can you make
it work in countries and actually get it into people?
So, the W.H.O. recently said, having these two vaccines is great, but it's like setting a base camp on Mt. Everest. You've still got the climb.
And so, now, the focus has to be on the ground game, you know, it turns out in politics and in pandemics, you need to have a great ground game. How do
you actually get it to everyone?
I think the AstraZeneca news, if it -- if it pans out, if we find that this half dose to begin and the second dose, if that turns out to be indeed 90
percent effective, it's especially good news for developing countries.
The temperature requirements, you know that Pfizer's is minus 70, Moderna is minus 20. Now that we have two to eight degree Celsius, this could be
hugely positive especially for especially developing countries.
QUEST: The risk is, isn't it, that you know, the wealthy nations, O.E.C.D. countries, sort of can have the infrastructure for the distribution of
those more demanding vaccines in terms of refrigeration, and you end up with a haves and have not. You end up with a two-tier system. That would be
devastating for emerging and developing countries.
KIM: It would, but you know, again, now that the AstraZeneca vaccine is out and it looks very good at, you know, relatively reasonable
temperatures, two to eight degrees Celsius, this might be scalable globally, and there are more vaccines coming. There are other countries
that have developed vaccines.
I'm optimistic, but again, I think that the key is that we have to invest in the ground game, and that includes in the United States, Richard. We
still don't have the kind of ground game in the United States that will be required to be able to get these vaccines out to everyone.
So, the inequalities are not just between countries. They are also within countries. How are you going to get this vaccine out to African-American
communities, Native American communities, the communities that are most at risk? You need to have a ground game, and what we found --
KIM: Hang on, hang on, Doctor. You say you need to have a ground game but as one of the top U.S. Generals has been working on this. The Army is
ready, so to speak, to move in.
[15:10:10]
QUEST: If we take the U.K., they are already setting up vaccination camps or potential sites. What's lacking here?
KIM: Well, so, it's great that the Army is involved. The things that I have been hearing here in the United States are that the Army has done a
pretty good job.
But there are things that the Army can do and there are things, for example, that you can only trust to people who are from these communities.
There's already -- there's suspicion in many directions, Richard. You know, 42 percent of Americans said they will not get the vaccine because of
suspicions, and some of those communities are communities of color, and they're -- because of historical reasons, they are suspicious.
And so, in order to get these vaccines into people, you need people who are trusted to be able to deliver those vaccines.
Now, you know, the good news is this, Richard. If we get serious and especially if the Biden administration from all the signals that we have
been hearing, gets serious about putting into place that public health system, that up to now has been the only thing that's kept the virus in
check in other countries, this could be great as an employment program.
It's fiscal stimulus, people who are given this money spend it, and it's also a blow for equality for people who can actually get the vaccine and
protect themselves.
QUEST: Right, but you talk there about the acceptability of it and people being prepared to take it. The latest numbers that I have seen, and you
will have seen as well, do suggest that number is rising.
It is in some cases, over 58 percent, sometimes it's 68 percent. So the public in the United States, and I imagine one would see it reflected
elsewhere, that surely is encouraging that people are starting to believe that this is going to work and are prepared to take the vaccine.
KIM: I sure hope that happens, Richard, and I think the other thing is that as neighbors and people that you know start getting the vaccine and
are not having, you know, terrible side effects, I think you're going to see that number go up, which is great.
But still, the percentage that you are going to have to have get the vaccine, even if it's 95 percent effective, for there to be any sort of
hope of herd immunity, is well over 70 percent.
Will we get there? Again, I think we'll only get there if we have the ground game. And moreover, what if the antibodies go away? And Richard, I
failed to ask, I hope you're feeling better. I saw the story about your antibodies going down.
You know, if the protection doesn't last long enough and if there's another coronavirus that has different spike proteins that are coming next year,
we're going to have to have the ground game in place.
So there's a way to deliver the vaccine, put the ground game in place, to prepare the United States for dealing with whatever comes in the future.
That's what's needed in the U.S. and everywhere in the world.
QUEST: Thank you for asking. I'm feeling a lot better, thank you, and indeed, believe me, Doctor, as my antibodies have dwindled, I've questioned
myself many times on whether or not -- how many times over the years to come. But thank you, sir. We'll talk more about it as we continue.
Now, some of the most prominent U.S. business leaders are warning there's not a moment to waste for the healing of America to begin. The open letter
on the presidential transition. The CEO of the Partnership for New York City in a moment.
Its QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Good evening to you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:15:53]
QUEST: So, we start a new week and it's a critical one for key U.S. States certifying electoral wins for Joe Biden. The President, though, is still
trying to pressure Republican state officials to delay the process, and even overturn the will of the people based on unsubstantiated claims of
voter fraud that you and I have talked about on several occasions.
And so to Michigan where we're looking at now. A vote is expected soon between the County Commissioners on certifying the results. Almost all
counties in Pennsylvania will certify election results, and the State of Nevada is to vote tomorrow.
Meanwhile, 150 business leaders in New York have written an open letter warning that U.S. democracy is growing weaker the longer the transition is
delayed.
It was published by the Partnership for New York City. And the letter says, "Withholding resources and vital information from an incoming
administration puts the public and economic health and security of America at risk.
Kathryn Wylde is the President of the Partnership. She is with me now.
What's the purpose of the letter? I mean, you know, I applaud the fact that you have done it and you've got some very distinguished people, but I'm
guessing, you know, you're not expecting Donald Trump to suddenly read this and think, gosh, I must immediately concede.
KATHRYN WYLDE, PRESIDENT AND CEO, PARTNERSHIP FOR NEW YORK CITY: Well, the purpose of the letter is really to call for the unification of America. The
letter is signed by business executives from the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, Independents, and they're basically showing that
everybody has to get together.
We are facing the biggest crisis of our lifetimes in terms of the pandemic, followed by an economic crisis that has left millions unemployed, and we
cannot continue to have divisive political battles that have stalled the stimulus actions that we need to take and that are just a distraction from
moving forward.
We need to move forward. The President -- President Trump can continue his legal efforts in the courts and we have a legal system that's made to
address those issues, but right now, America needs to see a solid transition that will allow us to find solutions that we can all come
together around.
QUEST: All right. The -- so, as I understand, what you're saying is, it's really about continuing or allowing the transition process to begin whilst
continuing -- if we look at the letters and the names that you have on, it's a very impressive roster of people, many of whom, when you've got the
CEO of MasterCard, Blackrock -- looking at them on the screen now -- KKR, Goldman-Sachs, many of those people will not want to be signing up to a
party pre-letter will they?
WYLDE: No. All of those people -- and this was -- this letter was turned around in 24 hours. The Attorney General of our state called and said
there's serious concern about the delays that are happening. We've seen that the vetting of Biden's potential Cabinet members has been slowed.
It's time to move forward. And that's what the business community is saying. We see every day that goes by, we get in a deeper economic hole.
We've got this surge in the coronavirus, which is taking the country, and we don't have a unified effort looking forward over the next few months.
How are we going to get ourselves out of this?
December 31st is the end of the moratorium on evictions for those who have not paid their rent: both residents and in New York's small business. When
that time is up, they're going to be faced with nine months or a year back rent. It's going to put thousands and millions more people out of work.
It's going to close businesses. We cannot allow this to happen to our country. We've got to be fully focused.
QUEST: Kathryn, obviously, like yourself, I live in the city. I live in New York. On a daily basis, I'm saddened but also horrified the number of
businesses, shop fronts, store fronts, restaurants that are just disappearing.
A lot of it's because they say landlords are not willing to lower commercial rents.
[15:20:10]
WYLDE: Well, right now, that is not necessarily the case because we have 230,000 small businesses in the city. We expect perhaps as many of a third
of them will not survive the COVID, and that's -- it's not because they're not paying their rent. The rents -- they have been -- they are not paying
rent right now. We have a moratorium on evictions so people do not have to pay the rent right now, but when, as we recover, those bills are going to
come due.
And at the same time, it's going to be -- it's very difficult for landlords. They're trying to pay mortgages. They're trying to pay real
estate taxes. Those bills are still out there, too.
So this is -- this is a national problem. It's not just New York. This is across the country. We're going to lose much of our commercial
infrastructure.
In New York City alone, in small business, half a million people have lost their jobs because of the COVID, and these are entry-level jobs. They are
service jobs.
These are not folks that can go and run computers somewhere.
QUEST: Good to see you. Thank you. I appreciate it. We will talk more as this proceeds. I thank you.
The President-elect is expected to pick the first woman to lead the U.S. Treasury Department. The two top candidates are the former Fed Chair, Janet
Yellen, and the current Fed Governor, Lael Brainard.
Either selection makes history. Biden has said he will announce his choice later this week. Senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny is in
Wilmington, Delaware.
Jeff, when I look at the National Security team and I look at what is likely the President-elect will do with this economic team, I saw in a CNN
article, everything is designed to suggest stability. Going, you know, skating back to the thickest ice of competence in government.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: No question about it, Richard, stability, competence, sending a signal that we are going to bring
in a seasoned set of hands who have been largely in some of these same offices before.
Now, they're of course being nominated to higher positions but that is exactly what the whole slate of advisers is from the National Security
perspective, no question. And it's also a similar sign that we're seeing to lead the Treasury Department.
Many signs are pointing to Janet Yellen. That's what our reporting is suggesting. She's a final contender here. We do not know if she will be the
choice, but certainly, all signs look to that.
But look, Richard, she is someone who has won bipartisan confirmation. Republicans voted for her when President Obama nominated her back in 2014
to lead the Fed.
Of course, it's a different time in every respect, but she is viewed as someone who is a consensus builder and we heard the President-elect Biden
say it last week himself. He said I'm going to nominate someone for Treasury who appeases both sides. It's a consensus on both sides.
So of course, he has the left barking at him as well, but this is someone who he believes could be confirmed, so this announcement could come, you
know, really any moment. But that is what all signs are indicating, Richard, but stability is the keyword here.
QUEST: Jeff, Janet Yellen, from the West Coast was head of the Fed in San Francisco, has traditionally had a more left view if you -- you know,
unfortunately, part of my job is to get into the minutia of Fed policy, and if you look at what she was doing in those later years, largely the sort of
things that Trump did not like.
Therefore, you've got to say, will the right wing of the Republican Party accept her when she has to have confirmation in the Senate?
ZELENY: Well, she does not need all of the Republicans to vote for her. Of course, if Republicans maintain their Senate majority, she would only need
three Republicans to vote for her and those three could be Mitt Romney, Susan Collins, and Lisa Murkowski. That is all you really need.
So look, what several Republicans have indicated, both privately and publicly, is if mainstream candidates are put forward, they will get
confirmed because they believe that the President has the right to confirm their person.
So, the question is, you know, there's always someone in a Cabinet who slips through and does not get confirmed. Richard, I would be stunned if
that was not Janet Yellen, a serious person. These are serious economic times without question.
The economy that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are inheriting is in deep turmoil, so that is why he is turning to someone or he hopes to turn to
someone with such strength and competence and depth.
QUEST: Thank you, Jeff Zeleny, in Wilmington. Joe Biden's picks to become -- to lead the State Department is a statement to America's allies and it's
one he's made over and over again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm letting them know that America is back. We're going to be back in the game. It's not America
alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Back in the game, not America alone. Anthony Blinken is a long-time adviser for Biden going on for 20 years, most recently Deputy Secretary of
State under President Obama. His support for global alliances like the Paris Climate Accord is well documented and resetting strained relations
with allies is thought to be a priority.
[15:25:09]
QUEST: There are 10 candidates vying to become the next Secretary General of the O.E.C.D. Seven of the 10 are from Europe. Nominees from the U.S.,
Australia, and Canada round out the list. You see them there.
Member nations will confer on all the candidates before the next announce in March.
Philipp Hildebrand is Switzerland's nominee to lead the O.E.C.D. He's currently Vice Chair of Blackrock, former head of the Central Bank in
Switzerland. He joins me from London.
So, sir, well, the O.E.C.D., you know, it's one of those interesting jobs, isn't it? It has enormous influence, relatively little direct power, but
you always have a seat at the table, so why do you want it?
PHILIPP HILDEBRAND, VICE CHAIR, BLACKROCK: That's a good description, Richard. Good afternoon. Well, look, I think it's testimony to the
importance of the institution that we have such great candidates. It's going to be a tough race. I look forward to it.
And I think the reason for it is pretty clear. We have major challenges, the O.E.C.D. has a unique research platform, great data that can support
these very consequential policy decisions that will have to be made by all member states, frankly.
QUEST: Okay, but I look at the way Angel Gurria has performed over his tenure, the financial crisis and this crisis. He's been very outspoken
sometimes. Well, actually, usually, knowing Angel, but I mean, he has been very outspoken in terms of getting his message across.
To some extent, sir, you know, you are more measured in your speaking. Does that hold you back or does that give you an advantage? If you've got to
tub-thump and you've got to use the bully pulpit of public opinion, where do you fit in on that?
HILDEBRAND: I would hope that when I need to speak out, I can. But speaking out should not be an end in and of itself. I think the key is to
have credibility, first and foremost, particularly when you're, as you said, the O.E.C.D. is not -- does not lend money. It doesn't have fire
power, per se. It doesn't really have power in normal terms.
Its power comes from its credibility of its unbiased research and analytics, and I think for that, you know, a calm demeanor doesn't hurt.
At times, when you need to speak out, any good leader has to speak out and I'm certainly prepared to do that. But I guess at heart, I've remained a
bit of a Central Banker, you speak out when you have to and you rely on the credibility of the work that the institution can provide in support of
these very consequential policy decisions that will have to be made.
QUEST: But isn't that one of the problems? Because if we look back at the global financial crisis and thereafter, it was people like Gurria and the
I.M.F., of course, then, Christine Lagarde, who spoke out and said, look, we need structural reform. There needs to be greater structural reform
banging on about greater cooperation and they did so.
Now, we can argue about how effective they were in that sense, because I would guess you would still be telling me that we need more structural
reform.
HILDEBRAND: Well, look, here is the story, right? The last 15 years, in many ways, have been a story of unbelievably innovative and aggressive
monetary policy action combined with fiscal support.
Fiscal policy will continue to play a major role, undoubtedly. Monetary policy is reaching limits. So, to some extent, the lack of structural
reform was a consequence of having the easy way out through monetary policy.
Now, we have reached a point where that's getting much more difficult, and frankly, I think the O.E.C.D.'s expertise is now more relevant than ever
before, because many of these really important decisions, whether it's climate change, whether it's digitalization, whether it's inequality, these
are all issues that ultimately will require structural responses, and that is precisely the core competence area of the O.E.C.D.
QUEST: Philipp, as we move into a Biden administration, how far do you think, you know, essentially, the last four years are going to be written
off as an aberration? You know, Janet Yellen, who you'll know very well, let's assume for the purposes of this question she is going to be the next
U.S. Treasury Secretary. Do you see a return, in a positive sense, a return to business as normal?
HILDEBRAND: I would certainly say if you look at it from a European perspective, there's no question that reengagement and a recommitment, a
re-underwriting of multilateralism, multilateralist solutions to global problems is unequivocally good news.
It is by the way, also, a very consistent theme that President Elect Biden has put out there from the very beginning.
If you look at his first speech announcing the campaign and his last speech claiming victory, it has been incredibly consistent. That message that the
U.S. is back and will reengage.
I think that is unequivocally good news from a European perspective.
Many of the issues, globally, of course, remain very complicated, notably the relationship with China. I would expect the new administration to be
very tough on some of these issues, in some ways, perhaps tougher than the previous administration.
Because they will engage their allies, again, on many of these issues. Including human rights, complicated issues from a Chinese --
RICHARD QUEST, ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Sure.
HILDEBRAND: So I think we're going to see a reengagement and it's unequivocally good news for Europe.
QUEST: Philipp, good to have you on the program, sir. And whether you make the next cut or not -- if you make the next cut, we'll hopefully speak
to you again, and if you don't make the next cut then we'll talk to you anyway. Because we always like to have you on the program as the vice
chair of BlackRock. So thank you, sir, it's appreciated.
HILDEBRAND: Thank you. Thanks very much.
QUEST: Thank you QUEST MEANS BUSINESS continues tonight.
Reports of a secret meeting between two prominent world leaders. If true - - well, it's extraordinary. The problem is they can't even agree whether or not the meeting took place.
In a moment, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
0421
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard quest. A lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment.
A question that really should be quite straightforward but isn't.
Did the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, pay an historic visit to Saudi Arabia? It depends who you ask.
And the U.S. kicks off its busiest travel of the year as COVID reaches record levels.
I'll speak to the CEO of Bookings.com.
It'll all follow the news headlines. You know the drill.
This is CNN and on this network, the facts always come first.
President-Elect Joe Biden's unveiling more of his foreign policy and national security team.
Alejandro Mayorkas is to lead the department of homeland security.
[15:35:00]
Avril Haines will become the director of national intelligence and the former secretary of state, John Kerry, is special envoy for climate.
The British Prime Minister Boris Johnson says lockdown restrictions in England will end next week as planned. He was addressing parliament when
the prime minister warned that we are not there yet.
He said, gyms, shops, and salons will be allowed to reopen on December 2nd however, regional pressures remain in place.
The Ethiopian military is close to encircling a regional capital held by a rebel party. On Sunday, the government gave Tigrayan forces 72 hours to
surrender. The military warned civilians of an artillery attack as it seeks to end nearly three weeks of fighting.
Well, good lord, you thought this would -- really straightforward. Did the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, go to Saudi Arabia and have a
meeting with MBS or not?
Netanyahu won't confirm or deny reports that he went and met the Saudi crown prince but some say he does in Israel.
An Israeli minister called the meeting an incredible achievement but the Saudi foreign minister said it never happened.
Now, on Sunday, the flight tracking website spotted a private Israeli business jet often used by officialdom flying an unusual route directly
from Israel towards the Saudi city of Neom.
CNN's Oren Lieberman joins us from Jerusalem.
We'll get to that flight in a moment. Simple question, Oren. Did it happen or didn't it?
OREN LIEBERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It should be a simple question, as you rightly pointed out, but the official Saudi denial makes this story a bit
more complicated.
We have that Israeli business jet, one that Israeli officials have flown on in the past including reportedly Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
It clearly flew according to flight-tracking websites from Israel to Saudi at a time when Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was in that same city meeting
with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.
And it's at that point where local reporters here broke the story that, yes, indeed, Netanyahu had met with MBS. A short time later, though, the
Saudis issued their official denial.
Of course, it could be that the meeting itself never happened, that Netanyahu was not on that flight, that there was no meeting, historic as it
would be, between these two leaders.
Or perhaps it's simply too sensitive for the Saudis to admit this right now. And the relations that we know are under the table have to stay there
even as Pompeo and Netanyahu are pushing for more normalization agreements.
QUEST: OK. So here's the problem. Firstly, will we ever find out the truth of this? Will it ever become clear whether a meeting happened or
not?
And if it does transpire that a meeting didn't happen, doesn't Netanyahu look foolish for not denying it or at least not sort of saying, no, of
course it never happened, for playing this see me if you can, see me if you can't?
LIEBERMAN: I think at this point, the sensitivity is not on the Israeli end. Netanyahu, I think, would be fine either way, whether it comes out
officially that it did happen or whether it's just flatly denied by the Saudis. The sensitivity is on the Saudi end.
Netanyahu has used that, "I'm not relating to this, I'm neither confirming nor denying," in the past. And it looks like he'll continue just to use it
right now, happy as it would be.
When will we find out officially? well, perhaps when Saudis -- the Saudis, Israelis do officially normalize relations. Everyone pretty much expects
it. The great debate is when.
Right now, the official Saudi position remains that there has to be a resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and a recognized two-state
solution.
QUEST: Oren, you can plead the fifth on this one. Do you think it took place?
LIEBERMAN: I'm a reporter. I'll wait for confirmation from both sides before I put that out.
We have what Minister of Education Yoav Galant said and that does seem to be pretty clear confirmation. He's in Netanyahu's party, he's in the
cabinet, I would think he would know.
And it seems like pretty strong confirmation. But you can't simply write off the Saudi denial.
QUEST: Oren, that's why you're doing your job and I'm doing mine. And we're both still doing it.
Thank you, Oren Lieberman in Jerusalem tonight.
As QUEST MEANS BUSINESS continues. Researchers are keeping an eye on the ocean's biggest predators, the great white sharks.
That's coming up next. This is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
And so to "Call to Earth". And a call to action on the QUEST: environment. You and I are sharing solutions on critical issues like
global warming, deforestation and the like.
It's a long-term priority for us at CNN, to address awareness along with yourselves, and inspiring change, engineering a sustainable future.
And so to this week. How Barbara Block is using technology to study some of our ocean's largest predators.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CALL TO EARTH PRESENTER (Voice Over): The workday starts early for marine scientist, Barbara Block.
BARBARA BLOCK, PROTHRO PROFESSOR IN MARINE SCIENCES, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: One of the great aspects of working in Monterey Bay is we can wake up at
our house, get on a boat that's an hour away, go out to Ano Nuevo, one of the most beautiful reserves we have here. And we can actually work on
white sharks.
STOUT: For the past 40 years, Block has studied the world's top marine predators in the Monterey Bay National Marine Sanctuary, one of four
federally-protected areas off the coast of California preserving a vast array of marine biodiversity.
Block studies apex ocean predators like blue fin tuna and, of course, the mighty white shark.
BLOCK: Here in Monterey Bay, we're lucky in that part of the year, for a short period of time, white sharks approach the shores close enough that we
can actually interact with them on a daily basis.
STOUT: Every year, in the late summer or early autumn, hundreds of white sharks arrive in the sanctuaries to feed on the area's bountiful supply of
elephant seals and sea lions.
That's when Block and her team head out, luring the animals to their boat with a seal-shaped decoy then take photos, record the shark's sex, and
place an electronic tag on its dorsal fin.
BLOCK: This is a camera tag and it's got a magnetometer, a gyroscope, an accelerometer and a camera.
Our lab has been at the forefront of new tagging technology for over 20 years.
They ride on the animal every second. They take data on temperature, pressure, light, and time. And then what'll happen is that these tags will
have a pin that releases through electrolysis. It will come to the surface, all the way up and then send its data to the satellite.
It's a lot of fun to work on white sharks. They come up to our decoys or near the boat with a lot of curiosity.
STOUT: Found in cool, coastal waters around the world, white sharks are the largest predatory fish on earth. Their torpedo-like shape allows them
to glide through the water at top speeds of up to 50 kilometers per hour.
[15:45:00]
The scientific research on these elusive predators increases our understanding of the role they play in the ocean is beginning to evolve as
well.
BLOCK: One of the keys of our discoveries is to learn that while we thought originally white sharks were moving north and south along the
California current, they're actually moving way off shore, over a thousand nautical miles to a place that from space and looking down at the sea we
would have no idea was a white shark gathering point.
These animals almost have no boundaries. They go from the surface to 2,000 meters in the flick of their tail.
It's amazing how much of the ecosystems they're using, how little we understand how they do it.
And I think the next generation will take us into those deeper waters, the waters without light. And allow us to actually see what's happening when
the animals are down in the depths.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Gosh. That was really fascinating. Absolutely -- we'll showcase. It's exactly that sort of thing we're showcasing.
Inspirational studies that people like you and me -- well, not me as much as you doing what we can to answer the call for earth.
So, please call to earth with the hashtag and with your efforts on what you're up to.
We'll have more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Returning to our top story. Shares in major airlines are higher after AstraZeneca became the third drug maker to announce it's developed an
effective COVID vaccine, one that's likely to be much more beneficial to the developing world.
Qantas says it will require its customers to have a vaccine before flying internationally since Qantas International isn't expected to go back into
the air for some time.
The change and necessity says travelers should expect similar requirements from other airlines soon.
I'm joined now by the President and CEO of Booking Holdings, Glenn Fogel.
So, Qantas -- it's an inevitability, isn't it? Your COVID vaccine as we get later and later through '20 and '21, your COVID vaccine in some digital
form certificate is going to be your new passport to travel.
GLENN FOGEL, PRESIDENT & CEO, BOOKING HOLDINGS: Hi, Richard. Thanks for having me.
It's an interesting concept but it goes back, way back when -- I remember there used to be a time that if you wanted to travel to certain countries,
you had to prove vaccination for certain diseases. So this is not something new at all. In fact, in public health, this has been a
requirement for a long time.
[15:50:00]
It was pretty much dropped because, as the world got safer and safer and countries didn't worry about it as much, that wasn't brought up and it's
been a long time since somebody asked me have I gotten a vaccine for a certain disease.
But I think it's not a bad thought of a way to help stimulate travel just as we start to come out of this terrible tragedy.
QUEST: I was thinking -- recently, I was in a country that required the yellow fever. Wasn't it -- that was it, Glenn, the yellow fever. The
little red -- the little yellow booklet with that.
But listen, Glenn, if this is the case then companies like Bookings, you will start to see forward bookings increase quite dramatically possibly
next summer and later next year.
FOGEL: Well, I'm definitely hoping for it. There are some great prices out there right now.
If you want to get a good deal for the summer and if you're confident that you'll be able to have a holiday, why not?
And with Booking.com, so much of it is cancellable. So I'm like, why wouldn't you? Since it's free cancellation, get it now, get it while it's
cheap and be ready to go in the summer.
QUEST: On this question, though, there's a shift. A shift from business to leisure.
But I was reading this -- hotels are finding it really difficult in terms of the leisure side of it because the leisure side has other new
distribution channels; Airbnb, sharing, all of those sort of things. Which are putting even greater pressure for hotels.
FOGEL: Yes. No, it's a problem. Look, if you're a hotelier, it's just been a very bad time since the start of this pandemic. It's such a shame.
2019, such a boom year for travel, hotels doing well, high occupancy. 2020, just tragedy in all different ways. In terms of financial health for
a hotelier, it was horrible.
And there's definitely more pressure because people have started to use a lot more of those what we call alternative accommodation. Airbnb is one
player. We also offer a tremendous amount of homes and similar type accommodations.
So now a customer when they think about where they're going to go in the summer of 2021, they're remembering, hey, maybe I went somewhere with a
home in 2020, I'm going to put that into my consideration.
So that a hotelier now has to compete not only against all the other hotels in the town, they have to consider all the (inaudible) homes. So it
definitely is becoming harder for them.
But for us at Booking.com, because we offer both --
QUEST: Right.
FOGEL: -- it's actually kind of an advantage for us.
QUEST: You're playing both sides of the coin, as they would say. And quite rightly --
FOGEL: Yes.
QUEST: -- why not? But I do worry about how much of the industry has been permanently destroyed --
FOGEL: Yes.
QUEST: -- that won't be able to come back as a result. Next year, come back end of next year, we should have a vaccine or tests and so many
destinations will be wondering, well, yes, but how much have we really lost?
FOGEL: Well, look, we all hope that is a story. We don't know how long it will take to distribute vaccines, we don't know how long until people feel
safe to travel.
We certainly don't know how fast do governments feel that it's okay to travel internationally which is so important for travel.
Here's the thing, though. I am not at all concerned that there's going to be a shortage of hotels or a shortage of places to be able to get a room.
The truth is, if it's a good hotel -- it's very sad if somebody lost ownership because they weren't able to make payments or they went bankrupt
or something but the building's still there. If it's a good hotel, somebody else will take over.
People talk to me about that restaurants -- same thing, restaurants go under all the time. New restaurants come in. It's not going to be a
problem.
QUEST: Glenn, we'll talk -- we will continue to talk frequently -- with you, if we may, over the next few months as we start to see this play out
and actually see exactly how.
Very grateful you've joined us tonight. Now --
FOGEL: Thank you.
QUEST: Now the former British Airways IAG boss, Willie Walsh, has been tapped to become the next head of IATA, that's the aviation body.
The announcement came only months after he left his job at IAG, owner of B.A., Iberia, Aer Lingus and the like.
Now you may recall I asked him when he left if he was interested in the IATA job. He gave nothing away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Rumor is if and when the job at IATA comes up, Willie Walsh is the man.
WILLIE WALSH, FORMER CEO, IAG: Well, i can honestly tell you -- and you've asked me these questions before, I said I would retire when I finished up
at IAG. And as you know, I originally said I was going to retire when I was 55, I'm 58 soon to be 59 this year. So I've stayed on a lot longer
than I expected.
And I'm not looking to do anything else. I think this is an industry that is fascinating and challenging but you know, working 12 hours a day -- it's
only five days a week, it was seven days a week for a long time -- but it just gets you after a while. And so I'm looking forward to taking a break.
[15:55:00]
QUEST: Oh. From next March, Wellie will be the head of IATA as the airline industry tries to recoup and regenerate itself after the calamity.
We'll talk about it in "Profitable Moment" in a moment.
The last few moments of trade on Wall Street, I need to bring you up to date.
And the markets are -- more good news. Look, it's really quite a strong session. It's all about vaccines.
The Dow has picked up steam quite considerably. The Dow 30 shows a very broad based components with only Apple on the back end of it. But
otherwise, all the other big ones.
Look at Boeing, up six percent on the back of all this ebullient news.
We will take a "Profitable Moment" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment," you know that phrase, we've talked about it on this program.
The end of the beginning or the beginning of the end was what Churchill was talking about.
Well, the news as we look at it clearly does suggest that it is the end of the beginning as we now move into the next phase and the beginning of the
end with these three vaccines.
You heard Dr. Kim (ph) tonight talking about the great advantages of the AstraZeneca. It's a lot cheaper and it's at a lower freezing requirement,
a refrigeration requirement therefore, it will be a much greater benefit in developing economies whether there isn't the same sophistication of
distribution. Which is excellent news for the world.
And then you listen to what Bookings.com says about the number of bargains and the number of opportunities that there will be.
And then we talked tonight about IAG's former head, Willie Walsh. Now, Willie Walsh has been known to break the china in more than one
organization but now he'll be taking over at IATA and it will be fascinating to see how he represents the world's airlines at a time when
they're going to need regulatory change and they're going to be rebuilding networks and businesses after coronavirus.
Willie is a firm believer in aviation. Not always the most popular man in the room by any means but -- as he said to us on this occasion -- on this
on many occasions, he knows what he believes in and he's prepared to prosecute it to the fullest attempt.
He'll be on this program at the first opportunity to talk about it.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight.
I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up in the hours ahead -- I left bell downstairs in the office -- but I do hope it's profitable.
You and I will be here tomorrow and we'll do it all over again.
The Dow is up, strong session. The day is over.
END
