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Quest Means Business
Biden and Trump Offer Conflicting Messages on Thanksgiving; U.S. Records Consecutive Days of 2,000 Plus Deaths; Concerns over Missing, Incomplete Data in AstraZeneca Trial. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 26, 2020 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:27]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS HOST: But there was trading on the European bosses, and they ended the day lower, not huge losses. London and Frankfurt
-- London, Madrid -- Milan, I should say got the worst of the day so far. Those are the markets, and this is the way the day has moved.
There have been conflicting COVID messages on Thanksgiving. Donald Trump is telling people to gather together as President-elect Biden is urging them
to stay at home.
AstraZeneca's vaccine faces fresh problems. Experts are raising tough questions over its clinical trials.
And European knock downs are offering one last chance to contain the virus before the Christmas season. I'll speak to Estonia's President who is a
candidate to lead the O.E.C.D.
We are even though Thanksgiving, of course, live from New York on Thursday. It is November the 26th. I'm Richard Quest and I mean business.
Good evening, if you are celebrating and giving thanks tonight, I wish you a very good Thanksgiving. But here in the United States, it is a
Thanksgiving tale of two Americans.
The current President Donald Trump is encouraging families to gather in his message this Thanksgiving. He said, "Get together with families and in
places of worship." And then you're doing just that. The T.S.A. screenings have topped one million passengers again on Wednesday.
All told, I believe six million people have flown since the C.D.C. issued its warning against holiday travel last week. So, Donald Trump says go and
gather. Joe Biden is asking Americans to stay at home and stay vigilant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know this isn't the way many of us hoped we'd spend our holiday. We know that a small act of
staying home is a gift to our fellow Americans.
Yes, it's a personal sacrifice that each of our families can make and should make to save somebody else's life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, the Biden's also wrote an op-ed piece, an opinion piece for cnn.com echoing that message of sacrifice for the greater good. The first
couple urged Americans to remember to be grateful for what they do have, even in a year of so much loss.
M.J. Lee is traveling with the President-elect and joins us from the beach in Delaware. She is on the beach, but you get -- you get my meaning. M.J.,
I want to read you what -- I mean, you've seen it, but it is extraordinary.
The White House says -- President Trump says, "I encourage all Americans to gather in homes and places of worship to offer prayer of thanks to God for
our many blessings." Well, the sentiment, of course, it is unimpeachable. But this idea of gather, when the President-elect specifically, his op-ed
says no, you're not going to be able to gather, get over it.
M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, you really could not see a more vivid contrast between the sitting President and the President-elect on how
they are thinking about this Holiday Season, as we are still making our way through this coronavirus pandemic.
As you said, the President, basically encouraging folks to gather together, spend time with family and friends. The message from Biden has been
entirely the opposite. And I think worth noting, too, that he is actually trying to lead by example, right?
The reason that we are here in Rehoboth Beach right now in Delaware is because Joe Biden and his wife has decided to stay behind in Delaware,
skipping their usual tradition of leaving the state so that they can have a big family gathering around Thanksgiving.
Instead, they're just going to be getting together with a couple of other people, keeping things really small. And I think what he's really trying to
stress is, look, now is not the time to get complacent. A vaccine distribution could be just around the corner.
And he's really just saying please act responsibly, because we could be turning a corner soon. And if you don't, you know act responsibly now, this
could just prolong the pain and suffering that so many people have been feeling this year.
QUEST: Yesterday, he did his speech or holiday message. Today, we have the op-ed. We have the video as well.
What I'm seeing here in tone and in substance is the President-elect starting his conversation with the American people ahead of the
inauguration, not just about COVID, it's about his tone. It is as much as anything else.
[15:05:29]
LEE: That's right. I mean, this is a person who has not yet been sworn in as the President, but somebody who is trying to behave in a presidential
way, right, the National Address, as you said, writing the CNN op-ed in time for this Holiday Season, that is going to be so difficult for so many
people.
And it should come as no surprise for anyone who has been following the Biden Campaign in any way, shape, or form. His message has been so
remarkably consistent throughout the campaign, it has been all about sort of healing the country, dividing the bridges that plagued the country and
having a sense of national unity and that's what he is calling for right now that the country really needs to come together to continue making these
sacrifices so that the country can eventually move on from this devastating pandemic.
QUEST: M.J. Lee joining us from Rehoboth Beach in Delaware. Thank you, I appreciate it.
Now, it could hardly be a worse time for a Holiday travel rush. Take a look at the map, 39 out of the 50 United States are seeing deaths. The number of
deaths of people is rising as a result of COVID. And the country records more than 2,000 deaths a day for the second day in a row. It's the first
time that we've seen that since April.
The C.D.C., the Center for Disease Control and Prevention says as many as 60,000 people could die in the next three weeks, all before another Holiday
rush at Christmas.
I'm joined by David Nabarro. He is one of W.H.O.'s -- World Health Organization Special Envoys on COVID-19. He joins me from Geneva.
I know you're not calling on people to cancel Christmas, per se. But we are going to get a very good idea of how good and bad it will be from what
happens in the United States on Thanksgiving. Would you agree?
DAVID NABARRO, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION SPECIAL ENVOYS ON COVID-19: Absolutely. Hello, Richard, and happy thanksgiving to you and to all
viewers.
QUEST: Thank you.
NABARRO: And we should be thankful, really, because we know how to get on top of this pandemic. We know what needs to be done, all of us do. And the
right thing to do now is to follow the advice.
Have a good Thanksgiving. But please, please make it hard for this virus to be transmitted from person to person, 180,000 cases reported yesterday in
the United States. And as you just said, more than 2,000 people dying.
And I look at the map. And I see that the virus cases are all over the country. So yes, do enjoy Thanksgiving. But please respect the basic
guidelines that we continue, continue to ask you to follow.
QUEST: But David, the issue you've now got for the rest of the world is what of Christmas and the other festivities around the end of the year.
Now, Leo Varadkar, in Ireland, the Deputy Premier summed it up yesterday, he said we're putting in place bubbles and arrangements in bubbles, because
frankly, if we don't, people will meet anyway. How concerned are you and at the W.H.O. that Christmas could be to use the parlance, a super spreader
event.
NABARRO: To be frank with you, Richard, we are concerned. We really are. We saw how numbers of cases just picked up rapidly in October and November in
many countries, following movements of people, for example, students going to university or people returning from their summer break. We know that
when people move around, this virus moves around as well. And when this virus moves around, people get sick, they either get long COVID or
unfortunately is get really sick and die.
Hospitals are full in many countries, and their health workers are working enormous hours to try to keep people healthy and well. We really do have to
do everything possible to tell this virus, it is not welcome.
And we do that by maintaining physical distance, wearing masks, being incredibly good with our hygiene and staying out of the way if we feel
sick, and if we all do that, then the virus does not spread. And that's the advice we must follow.
QUEST: David, in the end, I agree in Asia, there has been better adherence to that. Hence the numbers are lower. Although, they are still rising.
But in the United States, basically on either side of the Atlantic, there has been nothing like that adherence. So we do get these spikes. Chancellor
Merkel says restrictions will last through until the New Year.
I put it to you, David, the behavior of the public tells us that it's not possible -- so it's possible, but they won't do what you wish them to do.
And essentially, until the vaccine becomes effective across the countries, we're going to be looking at restrictions and lockdowns, and re-lockdowns,
and fresh lockdowns.
[15:10:40]
NABARRO: My colleagues and I in W.H.O. were looking at the figures today. We're actually wanting to say to people how impressed we are that the
majority are really following the guidance. If we look at what's happening in Europe, during this most recent period of movement restrictions, numbers
of cases have been falling.
I live in France, Richard, and it's great to see that the incidence rates are lower and we are even seeing a reduction in hospital admissions and it
is that kind of incredible discipline by people, an incredible sacrifice by people, it really is --
QUEST: No, David, I really -- I am going to just jump in, if I may. Because you're making my point. It's not -- the sacrifice that people are making at
the moment, is not willingly, it is being imposed by new lockdowns in France, in Germany, in England, and in Scotland.
What I'm saying to you is, once these lockdowns lift, we seem to have no capacity for restrict -- for self-restriction in a tiered system.
NABARRO: So I'm going to put it to you that it is possible in liberal democracies, like the ones in which we're living now, for people actually
to change their behaviors.
It's taking a bit of time for people in Europe to get used to what's necessary. But I'm getting reports from all over the place, particularly in
local areas of incredible well-organized responses and I'm hopeful that in Europe, after the movements increase at Christmas, that perhaps we won't
get such a big surge of cases in January or February.
It's preventing a further surge and the further need for lockdown, in which I and my colleagues are focused. I don't want to say to you, and I don't
want to say to anybody that we should give up in Europe or in the U.S. We can do it. It's doable. And we can do as well as it is being done in East
Asia.
And I want to make one other point. There's a general sense among some people, that when the vaccines start coming on stream, that everything will
suddenly get back to normal. We're saying, again, be careful. We've got to continue practicing the precautions that we've been going on about and then
we benefit from the vaccine, which will protect some of the most at risk groups, but we will be able to do it. And we've got to do it because we
have no alternative.
QUEST: David, it is Thanksgiving. Absolutely. We give thanks for you and the work that you and your colleagues are doing, keeping us as we go
forward.
And if we don't speak before Christmas, it's that time of the year, if you and I don't speak before Christmas, I wish you and your family a very good
Holiday season, David, as always.
NABARRO: Richard, I remember the times we used to meet from occasion to occasion, I'm so pleased to be in contact again. Best wishes to you and all
of CNN. Thank you.
QUEST: Thank you very much. I want to go straight away to Elizabeth Cohen to get her take on what we've just been talking about. Because, Elizabeth,
before we talk about AstraZeneca, you were listening to what David Nabarro says, and you know, we have a -- there is always a disagreement of a
difference of opinion, but we see things slightly differently in terms of the ability of people to follow rules, but only when it's locked down.
From a medical point of view from what you're seeing, what do you make -- what do you think?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Richard, I'm with you. I understand what David was saying that it is possible for people to show
self-restraint and to do all the things that they're supposed to do and that some people aren't doing what they're supposed to do.
But I think what you were trying to say Richard and I agree with you is that it's human nature that when you're in a liberal democracy that at
least in the United States, basically says pretty much do whatever you want, that many people will do whatever they want.
So yes, we have the ability to show self-restraint and take all these measures like masks and not visiting people, et cetera, but many people
just won't do it. And if -- you know, millions and millions of cases and hundreds of thousands of deaths won't convince them, I don't know what
will.
[15:15:06]
QUEST: Let's talk AstraZeneca and what's going on here? Now, it was the U.S. regulators that spotted something amiss in the AstraZeneca reporting
of age numbers or something, but AstraZeneca now is going to go back and tinker with a few things. But it's put a cloud over what we're already,
Elizabeth, frankly, complicated results to understand with this idea of 70 percent to 90 percent average percentage.
COHEN: Right, so AstraZeneca put out a press release along with the University of Oxford. They put out their own. They're doing this vaccine
together on Monday that left so many people scratching their heads. And let me tell you, Richard, when you're putting out results about your vaccine,
they should be crystal clear.
The results from Pfizer and Moderna were crystal clear. These were frankly, as clear as mud. It was very difficult to figure out what they were talking
about. What much of this boils down to is that there was an error for more than 2,500 participants, they gave them the wrong dose.
This is a vaccine that's given in two doses, and those folks did get two doses, but the first dose was only half the dose they were supposed to get.
That's a big, big mistake.
These are trials that are supposed to be done meticulously down to the final milliliter of everything, and to give more than 2,500 people the
wrong dose is a big deal.
There are other things that are a big deal. Let's take a look at the list of things, a list of worries that experts I've talked to say that they are
concerned about.
So they are concerned about this dosing error, not just in and of itself, but they say if they gave the wrong dose to thousands of people, what else
did they do wrong? It speaks to a certain something as some people called it, sloppiness to me -- what happened there.
Also, there was missing data in that press release that they put out. They said that it was on average, their vaccine was 70 percent effective, but
they didn't give the numbers that led them to 70 percent.
If you remember, you know, when you were a kid in math class, your teacher said, show your work. They just said 70 percent effective. They didn't give
the data behind it. And Moderna and Pfizer did give their data.
And the other thing that happened was that they didn't give details about two participants, two folks who took their vaccine in the trial and became
ill. They developed neurological problems and they didn't mention those folks. They didn't say what went wrong, and they didn't say why it wasn't a
problem.
Their vaccine, F.D.A. and other regulators did let AstraZeneca continue with their trial, despite those illnesses, but the company didn't explain
why that was okay. They didn't explain why it appeared that the illnesses had nothing to do with the vaccines.
Without those explanations, it is leaving a lot of experts concerned and these are folks I'm talking to who are going to be part of the F.D.A. and
the C.D.C. decision making -- Richard.
QUEST: Elizabeth, thank you. Elizabeth Cohen joining me. Now, viewers would have noticed closely that a few moments ago, I think I used the word self-
restriction in my discussion with David Nabarro.
It took my sister just about 30 seconds to text me to say self-restriction, Quest, no such word self-restraint is what it is, quiet.
In a moment, Christmas and European leaders are walking a tightrope between safety and spirit. Details on those plans next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:20:55
QUEST: The German Chancellor, Angela Merkel says the country is going to have to live with COVID restrictions for the foreseeable future.
On Wednesday, Chancellor Merkel announced an extension of the partial nationwide lockdown until at least December the 20th. In doing so, she
acknowledged is likely to stretch into January.
The rules, however, will be eased over the Christmas Holiday, and that seems to be the trend across Europe. Leaders balancing, protecting people
from COVID and offering them some respite from the restrictions during Christmas.
For instance, in France, a lockdown will end next week with some safety measures in place. Bars and restaurants will remain closed for the rest of
the year. Just think about what I've said there. Bars and restaurants will remain closed for the rest of the year over the Holiday period.
The same fate could befall certain ski resorts although the Austrian government is trying to prevent that.
In England, up to three households could form a so-called Christmas Bubble, allowing small groups of family and friends to meet. And in Germany, there
are reports that say a draft proposal could allow up to 10 people to celebrate Christmas together.
The Irish Deputy Prime Minister says restrictions are set to be eased for two weeks, basically, because people would meet anyway, so they might as
well just get on and make the arrangements.
CNN's Fred Pleitgen joins us from the Berlin. Fred, this Christmas. I mean, the logical thing is cancel Christmas. But we've seen what happens in the
United States when you tell people don't travel on Thanksgiving. They do it regardless.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think canceling Christmas is certainly something that is out of a question here
in Germany as well. And one of the things that we've seen Angela Merkel do and I think you've actually put that perfectly is that essentially what she
is trying to do right now is bring down these really high surging new infections that Germany is seeing every day. And of course, also the death
toll mounting also, until Christmas to then give people that little bit of respite, even though that might drive the numbers somewhat up again.
And what you mentioned there is actually absolutely correct. One of the things that Angela Merkel announced yesterday, she said she's not only
going to extend the lockdown measures that are currently in place right now, but one of the tightening measures they put in place is that as of
now, people are only allowed to meet in groups of five people from two households. So that's already restricted.
But they also said that they hope if things somewhat go down, that'll be 10 people by Christmas. Certainly, not everybody is happy with that. But you
can really feel the pressure here in the German government from the German government from states, also for the churches as well, to try and ensure
that one way or another, in a smaller form, Christmas must happen. It seems to be the same in many other European countries as well -- Richard.
QUEST: Fred, bringing us up to date on German's situation. Fred, thank you.
Estonia's government is also telling people to prepare for a very different type of Christmas this year. Officials there are calling on people to
cancel Christmas parties as coronavirus cases continue to grow.
And in the last few hours, the British government has removed Estonia from its travel corridor list, meaning people arriving in the U.K. from Estonia
now face a mandatory quarantine.
I'm joined now via Skype by the Estonian President, Kersti Kaljulaid. She's in the capital at Tallinn. Madam President, it is good to have you.
Now, you heard me say to Fred Pleitgen, I mean, really what you really need to be saying or would like to be saying is cancel Christmas. Just don't do
it this year. Have your private worship, but just don't meet with friends and family. But you can't, can you?
KERSTI KALJULAID, ESTONIAN PRESIDENT: Well, what do we have done is not to say cancel family Christmas, but we've said cancel the big office parties.
Estonians are not really well expressive people, outgoing people, very much, but one thing is quite of sacrosanct here. This is the big office
bash for Christmas. This is cancelled. It's not such a huge sacrifice to be able to still meet with our family and make sure that our hospitals are not
overburdened.
[15:25:16]
QUEST: What do you worry about now in the sense that the way forward, Angela Merkel says restrictions will last through until the New Year. We
know the virus. We know the vaccine will be with us by mid to late next year in a meaningful sense.
From Estonia, how are you going to get through? I mean, I know you're used to awful winters and cold winters. But this is going to be something really
testing.
KALJULAID: Unfortunately, the climate change has canceled cold winters. There is no cold winters. We are going through a very dark November here.
And indeed, we are quite worried about also the mental health of the people.
We are trying to only close those parts of the society we really need. For example, we have noticed that there is a surge of children between 10 and
19 falling ills, so we have closed two regions in Estonia, the Capital and East, the secondary school. But we are letting the primary school children
to go to school and the kindergarten so that the parents are not again, burdened with homeschooling of all of their children.
So as soon as situation allows, we try to reopen. In some regions, schools have been closed, on the Island of Hiiumaa. Now, they have reopened just
yesterday.
So we look what the statistics is telling us and try to very quickly react always with as little restrictions as we can, and you have to understand
that Estonia is a country, which is the size of Netherlands, with a population of one million.
We are not densely populated. We can afford to keep the country relatively open and economy as running as possible in this situation.
QUEST: Now, the reason we're talking to you today is you're one of the 10 candidates in the running to become the next head of the O.E.C.D. the
economic organization, seven of the candidates are from Europe, with nominees from Canada, Australia, U.S. member nations and our task of
getting it down to one for the final selection in March.
Now, Madam President, why do you want to be -- why do you want to run the O.E.C.D.?
KALJULAID: Because for four years, I've been talking on conferences and seminars with my colleagues about how technology is changing the world, how
we are entering the area of Global Services market, how we are seeing that industrial employment will fall to something like three to five percent
like in agriculture, and how our tax systems and our tax and reserve models of government are not changing and adapting.
We are seeing that people go independent. They work in five different countries at the same time and they don't have easy ways and means on how
to remain part of the tax and reserve system or their country. All of this is something which is an O.E.C.D. level question.
People tell me then, that's why I decided to run, participate, and also enlarge the agenda of the O.E.C.D. towards more recognition of this radical
change, which our economies are seeing. This change needs to be analyzed, calculated and taken into account.
QUEST: However, right that point is, do you fear that inevitably, these top international jobs doesn't have to, but you know, when you're against
Canada, Australia, the United States, many of the other larger countries in Europe, do you think it's an uphill task?
You said yourself, the size of the population in Estonia. Do you think it helps or handicaps coming from one of the smaller countries?
KALJULAID: I told you how I see that this campaign can enlarge the agenda of the O.E.C.D. in digital matter. I also think that the O.E.C.D. is the
best place where to calculate the market distortions, which they are market distortions, but are necessary, which rich markets who have climate
objectives of putting into place.
O.E.C.D. can neutrally analyze how these measures actually help us to achieve climate neutrality or are they simply protectionism in disguise?
O.E.C.D. is the only neutral body who can do this analysis. I see this needs to be done.
And I also see that that we, in developed countries, we have been for years paying labor subsidies, which means that labor costs are not fully covered
by employers. We need to get our fiscal balances into better shape in the future.
Again, how to do it? We need to get out of this trap where we are paying in job benefits and social support. If there is to be no rise -- radical rise
in taxes --
QUEST: Right.
KALJULAID: -- there needs to be this rebalance. There needs to be a mechanism --
QUEST: Right.
KALJULAID: -- by which companies pay salaries which cover salaries which cover the full cost of labor. This is all the work which the OECD needs to
do.
[15:30:23]
And in this campaign, I am talking to my colleagues. I am talking to our friends, partners in O.E.C.D. about these issues. This is how we do this
campaign.
QUEST: Madam President, I wish you luck. And if you get to the next round and you're not whittled out, hopefully, we'll talk more, in more detail
about those issues.
I wish you well over the holiday season as well. Thank you for joining us this afternoon.
Now as health officials on both sides of the Atlantic warn of a possible surge in coronavirus this winter, the White House is considering lifting
restrictions on travel from Europe.
We're live in Washington ahead of that. It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment.
I'll be talking to the chief financial officer of IKEA as his company prepares for holiday shopping seasons like no other.
We'll be live in Buenos Aires as thousands of football fans mourn the passing of Diego Maradona.
As you and I continue tonight, this is CNN, and on this network, the facts always come first.
The Macy's Thanksgiving Parade is taking place, albeit in a socially distanced form. It's an annual institution here in New York.
And though it doesn't have its usual crowds, it does have that which people tune in for; the musical performances, the floats and the balloons.
By the narrowest of margins, the U.S. Supreme Court has sided with religious groups in a dispute over coronavirus restrictions.
It has ruled that New York State violated the constitution by imposing certain limits on the number of people who can gather at houses of worship
in high-risk areas.
The Ethiopian prime minister says the military offensive in the regional capital of Tigray has entered its final phase after three weeks of
fighting.
[15:35:00]
The announcement follows a 72-hour ultimatum issued on Sunday to Tigrayan leaders to surrender. And a warning to residents they would face no mercy
if they didn't stay inside.
The White House is considering lifting restrictions on travel from the E.U. and the United Kingdom and doing so even as the pandemic rages on both
sides of the Atlantic.
Now new cases are starting to decline in parts of Europe, they're on the rise in the U.S. The WHO says, though, right now there really is no zero-
risk way to travel.
Kaitlan Collins is in Washington.
Kaitlan, why? Why now when the situation is so bad? I know I can vaccinations and certificates and all those sort of things but why the
White House -- why would they want to unleash this now?
KAITLIN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the question really has to do with how have these restrictions helped so far, and is it
something they should continue doing so in the coming months, in the coming weeks.
Because, of course, their concerns have been primarily about the economy back here at the Trump Administration. And so they believe that,
obviously, the virus is spreading, potentially they could lift these restrictions, and it wouldn't make a difference, kind of in their opinion
is the big question.
But, of course, it's really less about the restrictions and more about what people are comfortable doing. And traveling, you can see as it was today,
even though the CDC recommended that Americans do not travel unless they had to, you still saw a record day of travel for this year yesterday with
people going to and from airports.
So I think that's the question that they're weighing. But of course, it doesn't appear that there is any kind of strict set of standards that
they're considering when considering lifting these restrictions.
Because, of course, if it's contingent on the virus subsiding, that's certainly not what we're seeing happen.
QUEST: So, I'm -- forgive the presumption here, Kaitlan, but I'm guessing that you're not surprised at the Trump message, Donald Trump's message,
hoping people gather in homes and in places of worship which is exactly the opposite of what all the others are saying, including the president-elect.
COLLINS: Yes. It's the opposite of what Donald Trump's own administration is saying. Those CDC guidelines were the ones that told people not to
gather, not to travel.
And of course, the president has been encouraging that very thing in his Thanksgiving message. Instead of kind of striking that tone that you saw
President Elect Joe Biden strike which was this year's going to look different, we've got to get through it and then it will be better on the
other side.
The president's message has been what it has been all along, kind of dismissing the pandemic and brushing it off as we saw him do for months
ahead of the election.
So, you're right, it's not a surprise that that is how the president is approaching this because it's really how he's approached the pandemic
overall. So it's not going to change just because of one holiday.
QUEST: Kaitlan Collins, I wish you a good Thanksgiving to you and your family. Thank you for joining us and taking time. Thank you.
Democracy has prevailed. That's the assessment of the U.S. election by the former long-standing editor of the "Financial Times," Lionel Barber,
who retired earlier this year.
Lionel and I talked on the occasion of his new book, "The Powerful And The Damned." I asked Lionel whether president Trump's continuous, baseless
claims of election fraud would cause lasting damage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIONEL BARBER, FORMER FINANCIAL TIMES EDITOR: I look at it in a slightly more optimistic way but also without rose-tinted glasses.
And what I mean by that is, actually, democracy has prevailed. The will of the people expressed through the ballot has been realized. Joe Biden will
be the next president.
The second point is that democracy's been realized at the local level. Remember, that's the judge in Pennsylvania, that is the head of the recount
-- that is the senior officials in Michigan. And it's really important to remember that.
I think, frankly, some of the behavior of people elected at the federal level, some Republicans, has been pretty, pretty poor.
But in terms of damage. Yes, if Donald Trump continues to argue against the legitimacy of the election, that is problematic, that could do damage.
QUEST: You travel extensively as well, Lionel, and you know that foreign politicians say one thing publicly and privately they're all tearing their
hair out over what the last four years has been.
Do you see that the U.S. can repair this? Because more than 70 million people did still vote for Donald Trump.
BARBER: Well, there's two separate issues. One is the number of people who voted for Donald Trump and they did so for a variety of reasons. Not
just because they believe in Mr. Trump --
QUEST: Right.
BARBER: -- they voted against the Democratic Party.
[15:40:00]
So, I think the more substantive issue -- we have to recognize that that number of people voted and those people need to be engaged with and talked
to, et cetera.
But the real point that you're making is did one man, Donald Trump, cause enduring damage to America's reputation? Did he disrupt, destroy
alliances?
And I think with a new incoming president, there's a lot to play for here. And Joe Biden has made it clear, he believes in the alliance system and
America's friends.
And by the way, one week after the election, a very senior European figure who dealt with -- who for many years was involved in crisis management --
his first words on the phone to me were, "The nightmare is over."
And what he meant by that is, look, we can rebuild here. So I wouldn't exaggerate the damage.
I do think one of the biggest questions, of course, is what will happen to negotiations and relations with China, the a most important relationship.
QUEST: You faced the tsunami of change in publishing, like everybody else has done. But I think for newspapers, to some extent, it was more
immediate.
Broadcasting was still going through it a lot more but this digital revolution has hit papers faster and in some senses more insidiously than
it's hit the rest of us.
Going to a digital "F.T.," how difficult was that, to realize that's what you had to do?
BARBER: We knew and I knew when I was appointed -- and I describe it at some length in the book --
QUEST: Yes.
BARBER: -- (inaudible) concerning my appointment. I was 50 so I had done a lot. I had been a seasoned foreign correspondent in Washington and
Brussels and it was clear to me we needed to do three things.
We needed number one, to be unequivocal -- this is back in 2005; charge for content and raise prices. You are a subscription premium -- premium
offering, you've got to have price quality.
Number two, we needed to move from being print-based to digital and that meant, essentially, becoming a subscription service.
And number three, it was being digital first, not attacking -- many people made the mistake of undermining their own newspaper. We needed to walk and
chew gum at the same time not actively doing harm to the newspaper which was still an important source of advertising but to shift to digital.
And frankly, Richard, it took more than a decade. We talked digital but it took us some time in the newsroom and the newsroom was unionized -- to
achieve all the changes that were required. And I had a great team to help me on that.
QUEST: Lionel Barber, the former editor of the "Financial Times."
When we come back, without customers roaming through its enormous stores, IKEA had to adapt. What they did, and now as they look forward. In a
moment.
[15:45:00]
QUEST: Tomorrow's Black Friday, which is traditionally the busiest shopping day of the year. And it signals the start of the Christmas
shopping season, of course. What or how this will be this year, who knows?
IKEA's adapting to the changes turning its sprawling out-of-town stores into distribution centers and investing in its digital business.
IKEA's plans -- I'm joined by Juvencio Maeztu, the CFO and deputy CEO of the parent company, the Ingka Group.
Good to see you, Juvencio.
What's the biggest change that you've made, bearing in mind the difficulties of getting people into stores, the online component that
everybody's now moving to?
JUVENCIO MAEZTU, CFO & DEPUTY CEO, INGKA GROUP: Hello, Richard, and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone in the U.S.
As you have said, this has been an extraordinary year, from the economic and from the health point of view. But I think we started two years ago
our business transformation and it was based on three activities.
First, is the only (inaudible) transformation investing heavily in digital and fulfilment capabilities, then by getting more accessible in many
cities, going into many cities. And thirdly, our sustainability agendas. We have decided to become climate-positive by 2030.
And these three things we have even accelerated over the last months due to COVID. So COVID has not changed but also has helped us to go even faster
in these three big topics.
QUEST: There's no question that COVID accelerated the digitization of your business. What percentage now of business is online versus people going
and picking things up in a store?
MAEZTU: It was 11 percent of the sales online before COVID, it is now 18. And as we have opened again many stores across the world, it remains at
that level.
But the important thing for us is not online or offline; offline needs online and online needs offline. So it is the combination what is really
important for the consumers.
QUEST: Do you expect this holiday season -- I looked at your numbers which I've got from you. If you look over the year to August, you were down 29
percent in operating profit. Well, that's not -- we can write off everybody's results to a certain extent.
But if I push forward to what you are expecting to see this holiday season and next year in 2021 when a vaccine comes along [ph], do you have
visibility on that?
MAEZTU: Yes, we do. But before -- I want to also -- what you said, it is true that we achieve only four percent down last year due to COVID which
was remarkable and 1.2 billion euros profit got affected because of COVID.
But the thing I feel really proud the most, it is about that we did that by protecting employment from day one, contribution to community with the
additional funds and protecting our suppliers and giving back the (inaudible) to society. So it is in this context that we feel extremely
proud of the result we achieved last year.
When it comes to this year, life at home has never been so important. It is because of COVID that people pay attention to the fundamental things in
life which is family, which is love, which is health, which is food.
But also, it is life at home. That's why life at home at affordable prices is so relevant. So, there is, actually, a high level of interest and
demand for consumer --
QUEST: Yes.
MAEZTU: -- who have (inaudible) affordable prices. And we see that the trend, it will be maintained for next year.
QUEST: Life at home. Sir, Juvencio, thank you. I appreciate your time today, I appreciate it indeed.
Now as we continue on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS to Argentina.
These are live pictures. It is a painful moment for many people. There have been some clashes between mourners and the police a day after the
death of Diego Maradona. Those clashes were isolated but they did take place.
And now you're looking at live pictures as police are escorting the footballer's body through the streets.
[15:50:00]
A period of three days of national mourning has been announced.
We will talk more about this in just a moment. You can see there now, the police.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Live pictures coming to you from Buenos Aires.
It is the funeral, the hearse of Diego Maradona, who had been lying in honor at the presidential palace in Buenos Aires earlier in the day. Now
it's being taken to the cemetery.
Our correspondent, Diego Laje, is with me.
There had been some regrettable scenes of altercations between mourners and the police. What was it all about?
DIEGO LAJE, JOURNALIST: Richard, right now, Maradona's body has left and is doing the final 35 kilometers to its final resting place in the cemetery
on the outskirts of buenos Aires.
And in the meantime, mourners are leaving Plaza de Mayo, the square right in front of the presidential palace.
Behind me, I have in full gear the riot police from the gendarmerie militarized border police. They're federal agents that are here to control
the crowds.
They have been quite unruly throughout the day, they have been quite difficult to handle. And of course, the family decided to end this honor
for Diego Armando Maradona, when they saw that the peace could not be kept.
That people were climbing the gates, and they were gathering together, of course, in violation of safety and COVID standards here because, of course,
face masks are mandatory in Argentina.
We've had 1 million -- over 1 million cases here and over 30,000 deaths so far, almost 40,000.
So, in this scenario, the family decided to cut short, end at 4:00 p.m. local time, that's about two hours ago, and now the body has been taken to
its final resting place.
Of course, fans are not happy. And that's why behind me, as you can see, I have the gendarmerie, fully armed in full gear for riot control and behind
them supported by water cannon trucks.
For the time being, the situation is calm, is controlled, and there are no incidents. I should clarify that. But this could change any minute,
Richard.
[15:55:00]
QUEST: So, Diego, the body now is on its way to its final resting place. There are these days of official mourning. Is it planned to have any other
service, national service, that you're aware of at this moment?
LAJE: To this moment, the government has not announced any other service beyond the burial that will happen 35 kilometers outside of the city.
Now, of course, a lot is expected. Why? Because there are millions of people, thousands upon thousands of people around here in Plaza de Mayo, in
the Obelisco, in the main thoroughfares of downtown Buenos Aires mourning, remembering him, some crying, really suffering at this moment. Therefore,
a lot more is expected.
For the time being, there's no official event after the final good-bye Diego Maradona will receive in the next minutes just (inaudible) Buenos
Aires, Richard.
QUEST: And we can hear the crowd behind you wanting to make themselves heard. It is extraordinary, the mood that's taken place.
Diego Laje, thank you for joining us from Buenos Aires. When there's more, of course, we'll return to that.
And we'll sort of go to break while we look at these pictures in Buenos Aires at the moment.
The body of Diego Maradona now being taken from the presidential palace to the cemetery, about 35 miles or so out of Buenos Aires, where it will be
the final resting place of the great footballer.
QUEST MEANS BUSINESS continues after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Good evening, welcome back. It's a special two-hour edition of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS on this Thanksgiving.
Now, for many American families, it's a paired-down Thanksgiving, of course. For millions of people traveling, though, it's the holidays as
usual, which is perhaps all the more remarkable.
And all the while, the pandemic is casting a long shadow on the decisions of those to travel.
The numbers are clear; 2,000 people died on consecutive days in the United States. It's the first time we've seen those sort of numbers since early
spring and April.
And make no mistake, like everything else, this Thanksgiving is politically charged.
President Trump is telling Americans to gather together and thereby flouting his own government's health guidance.
END
