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Quest Means Business
U.K. Approves Pfizer-BioNTech Vaccine for Emergency Use; England Lifts Four-Week National Lockdown; CDC Revises Quarantine Guidelines; Major Transporters Gear For Cold Chain Delivery Of Vaccines; OECD Secretary General Elect Shares Views; Salesforce Plunges After Deal To Buy Slack. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired December 02, 2020 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:02]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: There is 60 minutes of trading left on Wall Street, and there is the opportunity, the possibility of a record
because the day which started really awfully, as you can see on the low point and then peaks of green and finally, over the hill, we go. The
chance, unlikely. The markets and the way they look and this is what`s happened so far.
It`s the beginning of the pandemic`s end, as the United Kingdom raises hopes and eyebrows by approving Pfizer`s vaccine so quickly.
The United States says quarantines can be shorter than 14 days or less.
And investors had a short message to Salesforce over its moved to buy Slack. So interesting.
We are live from New York on Wednesday. It is December 2nd. I am Richard Quest, and yes, I mean business.
Good evening. The age of normal gets ever closer, as the U.K. has become the first western country to approve a vaccine for COVID-19. As near the
end of this lonely tragic year, the Chief Executive of BioNTech says, now, there`s hope for a brighter Holiday season next year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UGUR SAHIN, CEO, BIONTECH: We believe that it is really the start of the end of the pandemic. We might be able to deliver sufficient number of doses
until the end of summer 2021 to reach the 60 to 70 percent coverage, which could give us the relief to have a normal winter in 2021.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, the news this morning greeted England as it emerged from a four-week lockdown. The British Prime Minister Boris Johnson says the U.K.
will start the largest vaccination drive in the country`s history and that will begin early next week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It`s all the more vital that as we celebrate this scientific achievement, we`re not carried away with over
optimism or fall into the naive belief that the struggle is over, it is not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Our correspondent, Max Foster is outside Number 10 Downing Street and joins me now. Max, the first thing is how did they do it? I mean, I
agree. Look, they`re only a week, maybe 10 days ahead of say the F.D.A. over here in the United States. But they are good four weeks ahead,
arguably, from the E.U., so either they`re playing fast and loose, or they did something different, which is it?
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: They are insisting they didn`t cut any corners. They`ve been collecting data from Pfizer throughout their
trial process. They`re getting all the data in, then they when they had the final batch of data just a couple of weeks ago, what they did is they went
through all the various tests they would normally go through with the vaccine, but they did them in parallel as opposed to one and then the next,
and then the next.
They insist they didn`t take any shortcuts. They insist they acted completely independent, the regulators here, and then when they got to the
point where they were able to approve it, they did and then Downing Street went ahead with the plan that you were outlining just there.
QUEST: And so the interesting thing is that, besides the safety and health of the nation, which is no mean feat, the reputation goes with it. I mean,
even "The New York Times" this afternoon has an article, quite just basically saying how did England get the vaccine before the United States
when it`s a U.S. the German company and Warp Speed paid for it?
FOSTER: Yes, well, there has been some smugness, I have to say, in the U.K. They did get ahead of Germany and the U.S. But I think there are different
circumstances. They`re very proud of the regulator here, basically. And they say that they did their job very effectively. I think it`s as simple
as that.
And they now have to go through the process, of course, of getting the vaccine into the country from Belgium, where the nearest Pfizer factory is,
at temperatures of minus 94 degrees Fahrenheit, and then get it into the hospitals and out in the form of injections.
And that`s the big challenge, which really set in this afternoon, after all the elation of the initial announcements this morning. I think that`s what
Boris Johnson was speaking to there. He doesn`t want people to get too excited. But it`ll be probably six months before the whole nation is
offered vaccines.
QUEST: The U.K.`s home grown, if you like, the AstraZeneca and Oxford. Now that has run into some problems, and I`m not suggesting it doesn`t work.
But there were issues over the way they reported their efficacy. Are they expected to move forward with that too eventually?
FOSTER: Well, they are feeding the same sort of data in all the time in real time I am understand to the regulator. So it`s all being looked at, at
the same speed as the Pfizer one. I think what you`re alluding to there is this sort of discrepancy that turned up. It was a mistake, actually that
turned up in the trials for AstraZeneca, where they gave some people two smaller dose in the first dose of two.
And actually, it turned out that the effectiveness was much better in those mistaken doses. So now, they are going back to the trials and re-trialing
different types of doses to try to get the effectiveness up. So that`s what happened there. But everyone on all sides here reassuring the world that
the AstraZeneca trial is continuing and is effective, and it will be approved in good time.
[15:05:38]
FOSTER: Brexit also coming up as an issue this afternoon, I have to say, Richard, because the government going out of its way to assure the public
and the U.K. that Brexit isn`t going to become a problem here, that the supply lines for this vaccine come in from Belgium and from a plant in
Germany, potentially as well won`t be disrupted by Brexit at the end of the year, quite how they can say them is not clear, because you don`t know what
sort of paperwork will be involved and what sort of issues will come up at the end of the year.
But they insist that that will not be a problem. But that`s another challenge that could rear its head at the end of the year.
QUEST: Max, change hats, please. Put your royal hat on. The gossip mongers are agog with the prospect of the Royal Family, particularly the two most
senior, the Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh, who are well in the 90s getting this and getting the vaccine publicly as a sort of mode of sort of
look, it is safe. Anything you can tell us?
FOSTER: No, I have put the question to my sources. I think, you know, when it comes to medical issues, they just won`t go there. Usually, I raise
exactly the same question that you`re alluding to there, which is would they perhaps reveal whether or not they`re going to take the test -- take
the vaccine or, you know what they would do if they were offered the vaccine as a messaging service.
Because it was interesting in the Downing Street press conference this afternoon, the Deputy Chief Medical Officer was speaking very much to this
idea that people might not take the vaccine, or they might not take it straight away and allow others to take it first. And that`s a real problem
for any sort of vaccination program.
And of course, if the Queen, as someone in her 90s goes out and says, I will be taking the vaccine if I`m offered it, it would have an impact. But
I think those discussions are probably going on in the palace. But I don`t think they would activate that sort of communications plan. I don`t think
unless it`s really revealed that there`s a problem with uptake in the U.K.
QUEST: Max, thank you. I always appreciate it. Thank you. Max Foster, our correspondent in London.
CNN`s Fred Pleitgen spoke exclusively to the CEO of BioNTech shortly after the news of the approval broke. And Fred asked how many doses that company
will have ready this year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAHIN: We will deliver up to 50 million doses to the different regions in 2020. So that means a significant proportion of these doses would also go
to the United States. Of course, it depends -- it depends on that when we would be able to start the roll out. So technically, we are prepared to
start the roll out. It depends, of course on the regulatory approval.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: One of the things that we`ve been hearing over the past couple of weeks is the
logistics, specifically of your vaccine having to be stored at around minus 100 Fahrenheit. There`s some who have called them a logistical nightmare.
How do you plan to mitigate that in the future?
SAHIN: Yes, so this is the early phase of pandemic supply. And of course, the early phase of pandemic supply is a logistical challenge for all of us.
It`s not only the storage of the transportation of the vaccine, but also really getting the people to the right place at the right time and ensuring
that they can come back for the second vaccination.
We are in the moment working in analyzing other transportation temperatures, including minus 20. We are evaluating whether the vaccine is
stable at two to eight degrees for a long time. And what we also do is we are working already in a second generation of formulation, which could --
which might allow us even transportation at room temperature. We will see that this will progress.
PLEITGEN: When will that second generation be available?
SAHIN: So first of all, what is important is that in the next few months, we will get additional data supporting the transportation of the vaccine
in, for example, at minus 20. So that`s the first change. And the second generation will be available most likely in the second half of 2021.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, there`s a vaccine. The number one question as Max Foster a moment ago alluded to, who gets it first?
The British have decided that care home residents are at the top of the list, care home and their carers. And then you basically have a list based
on age starting from 80 and up and working your way down in five-year intervals until everyone over 50 is eligible. Healthcare workers and people
with underlying conditions will be higher up the priority list.
[15:10:10]
QUEST: The other companies seeking approval see an uphill road ahead. AstraZeneca says the companies will need help convincing people that their
products are safe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MENE PANGALOS, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, ASTRAZENECA: I do think there`s a very important role for experts around the world that are not affiliated to
the company to be playing in terms of educating and making the world comfortable, with the quality of the data, with the quality of the safety,
the quality of the reactogenicity, quality of the administration data we generate is of a high standard and that ultimately, people are going to be
benefiting from vaccinating.
Because I think at the end of the day, everyone does want to get back to a world of normality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, Professor Adrian Hill is with me, the Director of Oxford University`s Jenner Institute, which helped design the Oxford-AstraZeneca
vaccine. He joins me. Good to see you, Professor. I assume, judging from what Max Foster was saying earlier that the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is
continually pushing data to the regulator, so that when that moment comes for Emergency Use Authorization, to quote the regulator earlier, "They`re
not at a standing start."
DR. ADRIAN HILL, DIRECTOR, JENNER INSTITUTE, UNIVERSITY OF OXFORD: Oh, that`s absolutely right. So since August, when we started -- sorry, since
April when we started our clinical trial program, we`ve been interacting with the regulatory authority in London, the M.H.R.A., on a weekly basis,
sometimes on a daily basis and they have been very responsive and they know our vaccine well.
And they know this vaccine technology well, because it was first given to humans in 2007 in the U.K., so they`ve had a much greater time depth of
experience with adenoviral vectored vaccines of the type we are using for COVID than any other regulator.
QUEST: So when we hear this, and I realize it`s about another company`s vaccine, but when we hear eyebrows raised over the speed of the U.K.`s
approval process, which to be frank is probably about eight to 10 days quicker than the U.S. is going to be. But it is a good four weeks before
the E.U. will be. Are you surprised?
HILL: I`m not surprised that the M.H.R.A. are moving quickly. They`ve always promised to, they certainly have the ability to do that. And, as I
say they`re particularly familiar with the type of vaccine that has been developed in the U.K., but also with the RNA vaccines, which are much
newer, of course.
So no, I`m not surprised, and I think really, it`s a question of all regulators looking at how quickly they can assess these vaccines to get
them out there as quickly as possible.
QUEST: I understand every country wants to do it, and to just sort of get the stamp of approval. But I thought we were beyond all this in one sense.
You know, when you`ve got countries, you`ve got the U.K. doing it, then the E.U. is doing it, then Australia will do it, Canada will do it their own
way, and the F.D.A. was it never a realistic possibility to have some form of greater coordination on something as important as the COVID vaccine.
HILL: That would have been extremely helpful to our development plan. We`ve of course had discussions with those regulators you mentioned. But
remember, most people in the world do not live in those countries. This is a global vaccine that we have made in Oxford and partnered with
AstraZeneca.
The scale of manufacture for our adenoviral vectored vaccine is well beyond any of the vaccines we`ve been talking about in the last half hour, simply
because we have so many countries, I think, 10 to 15 countries around the world and three continents, manufacturing this vaccine at scale now.
And that`s why it`s been possible to have contracts for three and a half billion doses of this vaccine in 2021. So you know, it makes a real
difference to what you can do. And of course, vaccines don`t work if you don`t get them.
QUEST: Now, on this question of the issue now facing the testing or the trials of the AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine. I understand it`s all to do with
the half dose that was given by accident, et cetera, et cetera. But when do you think the testing or the ability to get this thing back on track to the
regulator, when do you think that`s likely to be?
HILL: Some days from now. So we anticipate, as you know, there were three vaccines reporting efficacy in November. I`m very confident there`ll be
three vaccines approved at least in the U.K. in December. So we anticipate that the M.H.R.A. will be first. The European regulatory authorities will
be shortly after that, but very importantly, as I mentioned, there are other countries.
So the Indian regulators are very keen to get moving with this vaccine. They have manufactured more of it than any other manufacturing plant in the
world, and they have 10 millions of doses ready to deploy right now.
So we`re not just thinking about Europe and the U.K. and the U.S. There are many other countries ready to move with this vaccine?
[15:15:33]
QUEST: Is it -- I mean, it`s one of these sort of stories that goes into the annals of history that your vaccine might have been discovered to be
more effective because of a mistake. I mean, is that -- am I being too simplistic when I say that, because you`ve got to be -- I mean, it`s a good
story.
HILL: I don`t blame you for doing so because it`s been reported that way by some outlets. But of course, it`s not as dramatic at all. These are not
mistakes, these are vaccine doses that we compared and we have taken two different vaccine regimens, right through to Phase 3 efficacy testing. And
that`s a good thing to be able to do, because as the data suggests, one of them may be more effective than the other. And of course, you would prefer
to use the one that is more effective.
And usually, in this case, it`s the one that requires less vaccine, the lower dose priming regimen that looks better. But this was not a mistake.
This was something that was carefully reviewed by the regulators with ourselves and we knew what was happening, we did what was most careful. And
happily, as you say, it worked out really well.
So both of those regimens will be going forward to regulators. And hopefully, it will be a choice for different health authorities.
QUEST: Oh, can I just clarify, though. Can I just clarify because I can hear our viewers sort of saying, yes, the result is good, but the actual
administration of the half dose initially was not intended to be half dose, was it?
HILL: It was intended to be exactly what we gave, and what we gave are different measures depending on how you measure the concentration. And it
was either the full dose or the half dose. And very quickly, we found out it was the half dose. And of course, that`s been rather successful. So this
was done with full regulatory approval, and it was very easy to see what it actually was very quickly.
QUEST: Professor, thank you. I`m looking forward to the day when you and I are talking and you`ve had EUA and we can now talk about when the first
person is going to get it. I appreciate it, sir. Thank you.
HILL: Thank you.
QUEST: Now, the U.K. is facing pushback over its quick emergency approval of the vaccine. A former E.U. Commissioner will be with us after the break,
who`s also incidentally running to be the head of the O.E.C.D. and will also have the exclusive interview with the former Bank of England, Governor
Mark Carney, the path to economic recovery in a post Brexit trade deal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:20:28]
QUEST: England has officially lifted its four-week lockdown. The country shut down in early November because of rising COVID cases. It will now
return to a tiered system of restrictions. Researchers say infections dropped by 30 percent during the lockdown.
Still, England and the rest of the world have a dark winter ahead that much is clear, according to the former governor of the Bank of England. I spoke
exclusively to Mark Carney about the path to recovery, and what damage could remain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARK CARNEY, FORMER GOVERNOR, BANK OF ENGLAND: The shorter-term contours are relatively straightforward, it`s going to be a bleak winter, followed
by a more -- a better spring and potentially quite a strong growth in the summer. But what really matters is how much of our economy and to put a
personal element on it, businesses and jobs emerge from that.
It depends quite frankly. What we have seen thus far is that we`ve been able to preserve a lot of those jobs and those businesses. It`s going to
get tougher over the course of the next six months. That`s why continued fiscal support is important in all our economies, as supported by the
central banks.
But then what we really need to do is, as we come out of this, and there`ll be a natural bounce out of this, as people you know are unleashed, and able
to spend again, we then need to set the direction for the economy.
What do we care about? What are we building? Are we building a more sustainable economy? How are we adjusting on the digital side? What are we
doing on the trade side? All those questions are going to need to be answered. And it`s the answers to those questions, which will determine how
aggressive business is in terms of investing for the future and creating a better environment for all of us.
QUEST: That debate is the one nobody really wants because as the Chancellor said in the U.K., you`re talking about having to make decisions about which
jobs aren`t viable, which industries who has lost their job, never to work, again; not through their own fault, but because the acceleration of
digitization has completely -- has created --
CARNEY: I think part of the answer is in the question, which is aren`t viable. If those jobs aren`t viable, they can`t be resuscitated. But those
workers can be helped to move to the new jobs that are born if I keep the analogy, and that is part of the challenge.
But there are other cases where there are businesses that have had to pile on debt because their entire industry was shut down. Think of
transportation, the airlines, for example, I saw your piece a couple weeks ago of you being one of the few passengers on a transatlantic flight was
very good.
But it shows you, you know what people are leaning into in those industries. But we`re still going to need an airline industry going
forward. It may be a different size, different capacities and those are the tough decisions, the jobs and the businesses that are still needed, but
won`t necessarily be able to relaunch given the very, very difficult year they`ve had.
QUEST: Why are you optimistic that that policymakers can have that debate and discussion, deciding what they want society jobs, all those issues have
talked about in 10 years when A, companies look at the next quarterly cycle and politicians look no further than the next election?
CARNEY: Well, look, one of the things when you`re a policymaker, when you`re a senior business person, when you`re an individual, you got a
family and other things, you have to be able to do more than one thing at one time. And of course, it`s necessary to support businesses, viable
businesses, underscore viable businesses.
And if they`re not viable businesses, help them wind down and help those workers move into new jobs. It`s absolutely essential. But part of the way
you do that is you ensure that the economy is going to grow on a sustained basis. That`s what gives people confidence. That`s what causes investment.
That`s what creates the jobs of the future. You have to create the jobs of the future.
You can`t spend all the time looking back at the past and one of the things we have learned over a very difficult 2020 is some of the acceleration of
adjustments in our economy.
QUEST: The question of Brexit. I mean, you must -- I`m surprised you don`t hear the word and sort of have an involuntary twitch at the mention of it.
You lived it. You saw it through. You stayed on longer than you`d planned to.
But if this -- the talk is of a skinny agreement by the end of the year. Is that your understanding?
CARNEY: Well, it`s certainly relative to, obviously, relative to membership of the European Union, it is thinner. But even relative to something akin
to some of the more comprehensive trade agreements that Europe has signed with some of its partners, it`s likely to be thinner than that, however,
these negotiations are ongoing, and it`s -- it would be promising to have arrangements in the areas that that are being discussed.
But it`s unlikely to have common standards, any sort of equivalence arrangements for financial services and potentially rules of origin will
become quite important, all seemingly technical issues, but really practical issues for business.
So there will be some adjustment that will come out of whatever agreement is reached.
QUEST: The current governor, your successor says that if there is a no deal Brexit, it will be dreadful. Do you agree?
CARNEY: I think what the governor was saying, as I recall this, what I did see was that the longer-term impact of some forms of Brexit could be
greater than the longer term impacts of COVID. And that loops back if I can go back on COVID, to what we were talking about at the start, which is that
the policies of the governments in terms of supporting workers and businesses and of the central banks in keeping the system going is likely
to mean as we sit here today, less of the scarring or reduction in the production in the capacity of the economy than certainly than otherwise
would have been the case. So it`s a sign more of success on the COVID front.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: We`ll have more of our interview with Mark Carney on tomorrow`s program.
As we continue tonight, China may not have given final approval, or at least formal approval to any vaccines, yet, it`s already preparing to
distribute them on a global scale. An exclusive report from Shenzhen Airport.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:30:00]
QUEST: Hello, I`m Richard Quest. There`s more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, of course, in just a moment.
Will Britain become the first country to approve a COVID vaccine? And some European lawmakers say the British moved too quickly.
Salesforce has announced its biggest acquisition ever. Investors are not happy and we need to understand why.
Before any of it, of course, this is CNN. And on this network, the news always comes first.
U.S. President Elect Joe Biden says he will not immediately remove his predecessor`s tariffs on China. He told the "New York Times" that his plan
to rein in China is to first get back on the same page with traditional American allies.
That said, he didn`t rule out revisiting those tariffs in the future.
U.S. health officials have new guidance for people who may have been exposed to coronavirus. They now say the two-week quarantine can be cut to
seven to ten days and recommend seven days for people who`ve tested negative and ten days for those who haven`t been tested.
A senior U.S. official says Israel was behind the assassination of Iran`s top Iranian scientist. The official wouldn`t say whether the Trump
Administration knew about the attack in advance or provided support.
The scientist was killed on Friday whilst traveling on a major road just outside Tehran.
The U.K. is facing criticism from an E.U. lawmaker who says it may have moved too quickly in approving a coronavirus vaccine.
Peter Liese, a health spokesman in the E.U. Parliament`s (inaudible) group called the decision hasty and problematic. He`s urging other European
countries not to follow suit.
Now that the U.K. has approved a vaccine, it begins one of the biggest mobilization efforts since World War II. It is a race against time with
both lives and economies, of course, at stake. The logistical challenges are enormous.
Getting the doses from manufacturing plants into specially equipped aircrafts and refrigerated trucks and finally, of course, to the doctors
who will administer them.
China is already gearing up for exactly this challenge.
CNN`s David Culver got exclusive access to the infrastructure in place at the airport in Shenzhen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You`re looking at one of the cargo jets that will soon be taking vaccines that are approved here in China, made by
Chinese biotech companies, to the rest of the world.
This one is a charter, Ethiopian Cargo, it`s their pharma wing. Look over here, you can see they`re already loading up some of the PPE`s and the face
masks, some of the hazmat-like suits.
Inside, however, they have built an infrastructure that is temperature and climate controlled. Why does that matter?
Well, as soon as the vaccines are approved, they have to be kept at a certain temperature setting and that is the only way they can be
transferred from start here in Shenzhen, in Southern China, to finish.
For this aircraft, it continues on to the Middle East.
One thing that`s important to note is the logo on the side. Cainaio, that is a part of Alibaba, it`s their logistics and distribution part. Normally,
they`re doing good people are doing online -- think of Amazon but on a massive scale.
That is a company here in China that is helping with the distribution of vaccines as soon as they`re given the go ahead.
WAN LIN, CEO, CAINIAO: We are ready to move the vaccines.
CULVER: Cainaio CEO, Wan Lin, says the company is now adding more routes for greater global reach.
LIN: We are not still quite sure about the exact demand on that but we`re definitely building our capability to be prepared for that.
CULVER: While China is yet to approve a vaccine for public use, Cainiao says their end-to-end climate controlled infrastructure is in place and
ready.
The required temperature, which differs depending on the vaccine, must be maintained throughout transport from leaving the production facility to
airport storage and finally to global cargo distribution.
GEORGE MAO, VICE GENERAL MANAGER, CAINIAO GLOBAL SUPPLY CHAIN: For example, the Shenzhen airport terminal, they have already set up a cold chain
warehouse, mainly for the medicine suppliers.
CULVER: CNN got an exclusive look inside that cold chain facility, which will soon store the approved vaccines.
Now these chambers can be specified and even customized based on the required temperatures for each vaccine and they can put them in different
chambers within so as to accommodate that.
Cainiao then works with different airlines to ensure the cargo temperature is sustained throughout the flight. In this case, Ethiopian Airlines.
[15:35:00]
Since the start of the pandemic, they`ve flown more than 3,000 tons of supplies to Europe, Africa, the Middle East and South America.
TEKLE G-YOHANNES, ETHIOPIAN AIRLINES: So we do the same also for the vaccine to distribute to all destinations around the globe. And then we
could cure a lot of human being.
CULVER: All of this depends, of course, on vaccine approval. Biotech companies competing to develop a vaccine here in China face questions of
transparency and effectiveness.
However, if they can overcome consumer skepticism and wind trust globally, companies like Alibaba`s Cainiao says they are ready to start delivering
the vaccine worldwide immediately.
David Culver, CNN. Shenzhen, China.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: The OECD says that positive vaccine use is raising hopes for a brighter economic future.
The organization`s only just upgraded its economic forecast for next year and is preparing for a new era of its own.
There are 10 candidates in the running to become its next secretary general. Nominees are across the globe; Europe, U.S., Australia and Canada.
Member nations will make a final decision in March but there`ll be a whittling down process earlier on.
Cecilia Malmstrom is Sweden`s candidate for OECD secretary general. She`s a friend of the program, been on many times, and also a former E.U. trade
commissioner.
She joins me now.
Cecilia, so the OECD has upgraded its forecast for economic growth. But if you were successful, you would be taking over the organization at an
extraordinarily difficult economic time. What would be your priority?
CECILIA MALMSTROM, CANDIDATE FOR OECD SECRETARY GENERAL: Well, absolutely. And good evening.
It is really exceptional times. We have the COVID crisis with all its social, health and political consequences, of course and then we have also
the climate crisis.
So there`s a huge amount of work for members across the world, countries across the world to do the recovery.
First, of course, the vaccine is good news. There are several producers right now. But then we have to rebuild our societies in a sustainable and
an inclusive way, we have to address the issues of growing inequalities and we need to make sure that somehow we all come out stronger on the other
side.
QUEST: Right.
MALMSTROM: And WHO can play a role but OECD can certainly play a very important role advising and guiding countries in that direction.
QUEST: You`ve given the trade background, at least within the commission, and there will those who say, well, hang on a second -- if you look at
people like Angel Gurria, your predecessor and those who`ve held it before, you do need a good solid background in economics at the highest levels
within government.
It`s not essential by any means and certainly the trend has been for requiring more political nous, if you like, than necessarily academic. Do
you think that will be a problem for you?
MALMSTROM: Well, I think I have both. I have a solid academic background, I have a PhD in political science, I worked many years in the university. And
I also have quite a lot of experience on the highest level brokering deals in trade agreements and negotiating with ministers from many countries
trying to find compromises and ways forward.
So I think these are assets that can be useful should I be appointed as secretary general for OECD.
QUEST: But the beauty of the OECD, in some senses, is it`s the gold standard. It is the organization that the developing countries wish to join
and once they`ve joined, it sets barometers. Even if sometimes people don`t listen to it -- and goodness, Angel has been calling for structural reform
for as long as I remember.
But I do wonder, do you need to keep it the gold standard?
MALMSTROM: Yes, I think that is the uniqueness of OECD, that it can provide really solid facts, data, evidence, top notch research to help countries to
make choices, to see the consequences of those choices, to present options, valuations and alternatives.
And to engage with other countries who are not necessarily members of OECD --
QUEST: Right.
MALMSTROM: -- but to engage them in this standard setting --
QUEST: But --
MALMSTROM: -- and very often there are standards that countries align with, hundreds of countries. For instance, when it comes to anti-bribery or work
--
QUEST: Right. So --
MALMSTROM: -- in global taxing, tax evasion and so on. That`s really important.
QUEST: Do you -- you`ll be familiar, you`ve been a trade commissioner so you`re well used to the idea that once you`re up on one subject, any
subject is good game.
You`re in Stockholm, I see, you`re in Sweden. Do you perceive there has been a change in mood in Sweden from the more relaxed --
[15:40:00]
-- I know that the government says that wasn`t its plan but this idea of no restrictions or fewer restrictions to one of a winter, a winter that`s
going to require greater restrictions in Sweden?
MALMSTROM: Well, there are restrictions. Some of them are voluntary and some are very, very strict recommendations.
And of course, we are facing a second wave as well here in Sweden and eventually it has to be evaluated what worked, what did not work but today
there are restrictions on how many people can meet.
They are closing down a lot of public spaces, some schools are closing down and we are trying to keep social distance and so on.
So, of course, Sweden like everybody else is struggling to get out of this second phase and hopefully be better prepared by next year.
QUEST: Cecilia, thank you for joining us. We will of course talk to you again if you make your first cut, it`s brutal. But then these top jobs
always are in that sense.
But you`re well familiar with that from your time at the commissioner. Thank you for joining us. Thank you.
Now --
MALMSTROM: Thank you.
QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. The pandemic has led to a lot more people using the appear, Slack. And that`s not gone unnoticed by the software giant
Salesforce.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Shares of the business software giant Salesforce taking a beating over its plan to buy Slack.
Look at the number. Salesforce is down nine percent, Slack`s down 2.5 percent. It`s a deal of $27 billion, it`s the largest of Salesforce
history.
Paul`s with me, Guru La Monica. Now, this I don`t really understand, Paul. Because you tend to find where the market doesn`t like the deal for one, it
loves the deal for the other because somebody`s making off like a bandit.
But here, what is it that the market`s telling us about Salesforce putting that much money up for Slack?
PAUL R. LA MONICA CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes, I think that there are some concerns that Salesforce is paying an exorbitant premium for Slack.
As you point out, the stock -- Slack shares are down today but there`s been rumor of this deal since last week and Slack stock already ran up on that
speculation. So it`s a premium to where Slack shares were before people started talking about this deal.
I think with Salesforce it really just goes to show that there`s some skepticism about buying a company that hasn`t really proven consistently
that it can generate a profit since it had its direct listing last year.
[15:45:00]
QUEST: When I heard the deal this morning and I saw the price, the first thing I thought of was Facebook and WhatsApp. And I still say when they 18-
, 20 billion including premium that they paid too much.
But there will be an argument that says if you look at Messenger and everything that came through, it was worth it.
Now here we have a case of Salesforce wanting to be wanting to be everything to do with work in all its extremities of analysis. Does Slack
fit into that?
LA MONICA: Oh, it definitely does. It`s no secret, obviously, that Slack is all about work, its ticker symbol is WORK.
And when you look at the Slack acquisition and add it to other deals that Salesforce has done recently, they`ve thought big data software firms like
Tableaux and MuleSoft for multi-billion dollar deals as well, this is all about Salesforce which is now in the big leagues.
This is a Dow component [ph], remember, Richard. They are trying to compete even more effectively with the likes of Microsoft and Oracle and SAP.
And I think the Slack deal, particularly because it makes them a bigger rival to Microsoft with its rapidly growing Teams product, I think it`s
going to be interesting to see. This is really about Salesforce going head to head with Microsoft.
QUEST: OK. One more for you, Paul. You mentioned there`s other deals. Companies that bring in other companies have difficulty integrating them,
some do it better than others.
What`s Salesforce`s reputation like for the way it -- Real Force and others that it`s brought in?
LA MONICA: Yes. So far I think of one of the things that is encouraging probably for anyone that works for Slack or is an investor in Slack is that
Salesforce has a pretty good history of doing these deals, keeping a lot of the existing management talent in place and integrating them into the
broader Salesforce product in a realistically good way.
So I don`t think that this is a company that can be accused of wasting money on all these big acquisitions and then they fall apart. They`ve done
a pretty solid job with these acquisitions so far.
But Slack is going to be the biggest deal for Salesforce and that`s going to be obviously a big integration challenge.
QUEST: Paul La Monica, Thank you.
America`s CDC is saying that the next three months could be the most difficult in the country`s health history.
At the same time, they`re reducing the level of quarantine from 14 to seven to ten days. That could be a hope for a travel industry that`s on its
knees. After the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:50:00]
QUEST: Lifelines for the travel industry are few and far between but one may just have been given.
Quarantine rules are being relaxed in the United States. The CDC has issued new guidance ahead of the busy holiday season. A shortening of the
quarantine time for seven to ten days after expected coronavirus exposure. It`s down from 14 days.
The CDC says by reducing isolation periods, more people may comply. It`s also advising Americans to postpone their holiday travel.
From Stamford, Connecticut, Kayak CEO, Steve Hafner. It is always good to have you, I appreciate it.
Steve, this is really tricky, isn`t it, because the CDC still says don`t travel but in a recognition of the reality that people are ignoring them,
they say, OK, well if you do travel, please let`s quarantine for seven to ten, at least you might keep that.
STEVE HAFNER, CEO, KAYAK: Yes, Richard. Thanks for having me on. It is a little troublesome for consumers to try to navigate these changing
restrictions and advisories.
I think we just came off a holiday period where a lot of consumers wanted to travel and at the last minute the CDC recommended they didn`t.
And as a result, while media reports showed a lot of Americans in crowded airports, the fact of the matter was airports weren`t crowded.
We had over a million people travel on Wednesday and Sunday around Thanksgiving which sounds like a lot but in reality, typically you`ll see
two-and-a-half to three million people travel at that period of time. So it`s down about 60 percent.
And I think holiday travel if you look between Thanksgiving and Christmas, based on Kayak numbers, queries are down 80 percent from previous year.
So I think People are still very confused and are taking a wait-and-see attitude.
QUEST: The UNWTO has put out a report this morning I was just reading, that the number of countries that have removed or reduced restrictions is now
something like 70 percent of countries have now at least taken away some of them either by reducing quarantines or doing quarantines and testing.
But that`s still not enough to get international travel up and running again. I don`t see that happening much before spring to middle of next year
at the earliest. Would you agree?
HAFNER: Yes. We`ve consistently said a lot of things have to come in a place for travel to rebound to where it was and we think it`s a multi-year
period. So it`s a combination of vaccines, loosening restrictions, good weather -- actually, no one likes to travel historically in the wintertime.
And then a good and safe environment, especially on the economic side for consumers not only to feel safe to travel but also to have the monetary and
financial means to do so.
QUEST: If we look at Kayak and how you`ve survived. We talked earlier in the pandemic about the measures that you had to take. Do you expect as we
go into a very difficult winter you`ll have to do more?
HAFNER: I don`t think so. And certainly, we took some very tough measures very early on in this pandemic.
We laid off about 25 percent of our staff, some of whom we`ve hired back. But we did a one cut and done so we`re very well prepared for the rebound.
And in the meantime we`re doing a lot of work to make our services even better for travelers. So when demand does come back, we`re ready for it.
QUEST: Do you see -- we were talking on this program yesterday -- but the way in which the new star rating, maybe it won`t be quite so vulgar, but
will be some form of health grading.
Hotels will be -- and I don`t just mean immediate because of the crisis but going forward, some form of health grading on hotels or restaurants or
whatever.
They will promote the fact that they have ventilation, whatever. Do you see this as being in the future cards?
HAFNER: I don`t think so. I think all operators in the travel business and on the hospitality, the restaurant business, are doing everything they can
to promote safe dining and safe travel.
So I think, broadly speaking, you`ll see everyone adhere to the same set of standards once those standards get established.
So I don`t know that we necessarily need a scorecard and another layer of regulation on top of these businesses. But where there are differences in
behavior, particularly on the airline side today, like Delta still reserves a middle seat and keeps that open whereas most of the other major carriers
don`t do that, you will see Kayak, for example, flag stuff like that.
But I don`t know that I necessarily believe that we`ll see health measures, particularly as vaccines get out there and people become less scared of
COVID because --
QUEST: Right. But you`ll agree -- but you`ll agree your vaccine, your vaccination as Alan Joyce of Qantas said, your vaccination and the
certificate and the lodging of it in a reputable place will be part of your travel -- that and tests -- part of your travel passport?
[15:55:00]
HAFNER: It might be, but I think that`ll be on a voluntary basis.
You know there`s an industry trader [ph] called IATA which is trying to recommend a digital health certificate for consumers. I don`t know how much
traction that`s going to get.
But I do think on a carrier by carrier basis, you`ll see some airlines, typical international airlines, who say please have verification of a
negative COVID test or vaccine or past antibodies before you board our planes.
Good too see you, sir.
HAFNER: Good to see you too.
QUEST: We`ll keep in touch if we get through this winter. And looking forward to next year and of course, when things get better. I appreciate
it. Thank you, sir.
HAFNER: As do I [ph].
QUEST: We`ll take a "Profitable Moment" after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight`s "Profitable Moment."
Our producer just gave me the thought of what we really should end with tonight. Optimism with vigilance.
Because as we`ve told you tonight, there is a new vaccine that has now been approved by the U.K. authorities and frankly, the U.S. authorities will do
it in the matter of days and the E.U. won`t be that far behind.
Of course, other countries as you heard on this program as well will have to also approve and that needs to take place.
So there is solid grounds for optimism tonight and no one wants to deny anyone that moment of "whew" [ph].
But as the British prime minister said, vigilance must remain. There will be nothing more disastrous than for us all to become complacent and to
start behaving as if this virus was already over.
And it doesn`t matter whether you talk about it being the beginning of the end, the end of the beginning, the light at the end of the tunnel, the
tunnel`s a very long tunnel -- whatever you want to do it.
The reality is that today`s optimism will not keep me or you safe tonight and tomorrow. Optimism per se is merely going to help us our spirits
through to the better days further down the road.
And I don`t mean to be pouring cold water and being a grinch, it`s a simple fact.
The virus doesn`t care that you and I are optimistic tonight. The virus doesn`t care that the British approved the vaccine.
No, what we need to keep doing is what we`ve been doing, which means of course masks galore which is just -- got it here next to me.
And that`s QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I`m Richard Quest in New York.
Whatever you`re up to in the hours ahead --
(Bell rings)
-- I hope it`s profitable. I`ll see you tomorrow.
END
