Return to Transcripts main page

Quest Means Business

Israel And Hamas Both Claim Victory As Ceasefire Holds; Violent Crashes Erupts in Jerusalem Following Israel-Gaza Ceasefire; Biden Assures Palestinian Authorities of America's Support to Help Rebuild Gaza; EU Pledges to Supply 13 Billion Vaccines to Rest of the World. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 21, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS HOST: A very good evening to you, as we have a second hour of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS on this Friday. And tonight, the

ceasefire in Gaza is holding. Now, the work of rebuilding begins anew with both Israel and Hamas claiming victory after 11 days of brutal violence.

The political leader of Hamas Ismail Haniyeh says the resistance is now stronger. However, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says that

their air strike campaigns have crippled Hamas infrastructure.

The political wrangling all against the backdrop of new clashes at the Al- Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem today. It was the sight of unrest two weeks ago, and it was arguably that, that precipitated the latest exchange of Israeli

air strikes and Hamas rocket fire. Nic Robertson is in Ashdod, Israel, not far from the Gaza border. Nic, we're in one of those interesting situations

where those two statements of Prime Minister and Hamas leader, they're both right in their own way.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Ismail Haniyeh; the Hamas leader is saying that they've taken a quantum leap forward.

However, Benjamin Netanyahu is saying Hamas has been not backward for years. How do you reconcile those two statements? Well, Hamas thinks it's

made political gains on the international stage. It thinks it's made political gains among Palestinians on the West Bank, making it more popular

than Fatah and among some people. Fatah being another Palestinian organization principally in the Palestinian authority.

And on the international stage they say, look, we've been able to draw support in huge crowds, although he overstates it a bit, calling it

billions on the streets in capitals around the world. But even the Americans, he says, we've managed to sort of pull into this, and the Prime

Minister -- Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu equally correct, 100 of kilometers of Hamas tunnels, 25 of their commanders, 200 of their

fighters, a lot of their equipment, the weapons-making capability all taken out. So -- and these contexts, both are claiming victory in a way that they

can. I think for either of them, the real victory, if they can really claim it is to be able to continue in their current positions of leadership.

QUEST: Because both of course, I mean, Netanyahu with his fifth election, arguably, if Benny Gantz can't put together -- or sorry, if the opposition

can't put together, if he can't put together a coalition. And arguably, Hamas, because of course at some point Mahmoud Abbas is going to call those

elections for the Palestinian authority on the West Bank.

ROBERTSON: That is anticipated, and he will be under international pressure to do it. There's a sense in the international community, and you've got

the sense of this through President Biden sort of not prioritizing, either calling the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu or Mahmoud Abbas, the

Palestinian Authority president. In fact, not calling him until really this sort of conflict began. There's a real weight in the international

community for Palestinian elections to elect a new leadership that's not viewed by its people as corrupt, that is not as ossified, that is able to

sort of bend its position and change its position and negotiate and be better representative of the Palestinian community writ large.

So, you know, I think in that -- in those terms, the world watches what's happening for those Palestinian elections and of course watches intently

what's expected to be a fifth round of Israeli elections. Can Prime Minister Netanyahu benefit politically from what's happened now? There was

speculation that he would and emerge with that sort of key additional seat that he hasn't been able to get yet in the Knesset to form a government.

QUEST: Now, Nic, as our international diplomatic editor, give me your assessment of the week. Not just winners and losers in the sense because,

you know, lots -- so many people died. But your assessment of whether or not any progress at all stands to be made.

ROBERTSON: I think take the very big picture -- yes and no. I mean, no because it's the status quo at the end, there's a ceasefire, and this is

where we were before there were close to 250 deaths between Gaza and here in Israel as well.

[16:05:00]

No, because that equation, the basic equation of, you know, the underlying issue of land rights hasn't been changed. Yes, in some ways because this

did accelerate up the international agenda. The whole thing about this particular conflict has been a sort of what the military call flash to

bang. It's acceleration. You know, the Israeli authorities say the number and speed of the rockets that have been fired at them exceeds anything that

they've experienced up to now. The engagement of the international community, the protests --

QUEST: Right --

ROBERTSON: On the streets of capitals around the world has come very quickly. So there's sort of an acceleration, and the way that we see in so

many diplomatic events around the world, word spreads faster because of social media, because of images, pressure on politicians spreads faster.

But where does that leave everyone, all it does is raise the flag here again over this -- over this sore, over this problem, over this issue, that

says this needs to be resolved. But I go back to what I said at the beginning, President Biden doesn't feel that there's an easy resolution

coming because he doesn't want to engage in it because he has much bigger issues on his plate, China being one of them.

Although, we do understand that he will be sending a Secretary of State here, Antony Blinken, in the coming days. We don't know quite what that

means or what he's expected to achieve yet. So my answer has to be a yes and a no.

QUEST: Which is just fine for tonight. Thank you, sir. That's Nic Robertson. Now to the president, as Nic Robertson was just talking about.

President Biden will be taking questions in the next hour or so. He's expected to -- from reporters at the top of the hour. Phil Mattingly is

with us there. What are we expecting from the president? I mean, how -- he's already made it clear he likes the quiet, firm diplomacy, but he's

going to get a bit of a grilling over where the United States stands post ceasefire.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's no question about it. Look, the president, Richard, if you'll recall until

yesterday's prepared remarks had not spoken about what was happening in the Middle East for more than a week. All of what we knew about what was going

on came through White House readouts of calls we had no access to.

So, this will be the first time reporters will get to ask him about what happened behind the scenes, but also, I think as Nic was kind of laying it

out, what his thought-process is going forward, if you ever wanted a split- screen about where the White House is on things right now, it's that they were dealing with a Middle East crisis or a Middle East conflict that they

very much did not want to be a part of when they first took office.

And now they're having the president of South Korea come in, which is the area of the world, the Indo-Pacific where they very clearly want to focus

on. And I think the president will want to focus on that today. China is by far where the administration wants to keep its foreign policy focus on and

really push the majority of its resources toward over the course of the next several years. However, if this week or the last ten days were any

indication, at some point, reality sets in. And that reality is for every United States president, the Middle East, what's happening with Israelis

and Palestinians is going to end up on your plate.

Now, it's worth noting, the president and his team believed that the way they handled -- that is, you noted, the quiet diplomacy was something that

it ended up being effective in the end. I think the bigger question right now for the Biden administration is what does this lead to? Obviously, as

Nic pointed out, the Secretary of State --

QUEST: Right --

MATTINGLY: Is going to be heading to the region soon. Is this the start of something or do they plan to just try and maintain things where they are

right now and keep their focus where they want it to be throughout the Indo-Pacific?

QUEST: Phil, is there a feeling they've got a control of -- I mean, well, they don't have control over the situation, but is there a feeling that

they are on top of the situation rather than just knee-jerk reacting to things?

MATTINGLY: You know, that's actually a great question. I think that at this point, the feeling is to the extent you can ever be on top of the

situation, they feel like they're in a pretty decent place. And I think where I'm coming from on that one is obviously, they did not expect this

necessarily, it wasn't their keen focus, but they believed that the fact that there's a ceasefire agreed to in 11 days as opposed to 50, 60 or 70

was a positive outcome. And I think what the -- how the president approached the Prime Minister of Israel, the president approached Benjamin

Netanyahu throughout the course of the last 11 days was in a way that the White House feels will pay off for them in the future however long the

Prime Minister is the Prime Minister of Israel.

Giving them space, blocking U.N. resolutions, obviously, it upset international partners and it definitely upset key members of their own

party, and yet the president was not dissuaded from continuing down that path until it had become clear that Israel was starting to wind down its

operations. The president got a little bit more heavy-handed in his private conversations with the Prime Minster and an outcome was eventually reached.

So, I think they're pleased with where they stand right now, but I also think they're clear-eyed. They acknowledge --

QUEST: Right --

MATTINGLY: That there's a possibility the ceasefire doesn't hold, and that very clearly, this doesn't solve any of the very real clear underlying

issues in this region at this moment.

[16:10:00]

QUEST: You'll be watching the news conference, you'll be reporting on it, and we will hear from you, much more from you, Phil Mattingly who is in

Washington. Now, in Gaza, of course, the Palestinians there, their homes, businesses, livelihoods, in many cases reduced to rubble, and it will take

billions of dollars to build the whole thing up again. President Biden says the U.S. is ready to offer its support to help rebuild.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: United States committed to working with the United Nations, and we remain committed to working with

the United Nations and other international stakeholders to provide rapid humanitarian assistance in the martial international support for the people

of Gaza and the Gaza reconstruction efforts.

We will do this in full partnership with the Palestinian authority, not Hamas, authority, in a manner that does not permit Hamas to simply restock

its military arsenal. I believe the Palestinians and Israelis equally deserve to live safely and securely and to enjoy equal measures of freedom,

prosperity and democracy. My administration will continue our quiet, relentless diplomacy toward that end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Ben Wedeman is with us. He was among the first western reporters to get inside Gaza after the ceasefire. We have a long delay between us, Ben,

of about six or seven seconds, but that won't stop us from hearing you and from Gaza city tonight. Ben, the -- first of all, let's talk about the

level of damage, the level of destruction. How bad is it?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's bad. I mean, we were in a neighborhood, Richard, where we saw massive craters in main

roads, craters that had -- bombs had destroyed, not only -- created not only the craters, but had destroyed sewer pipes and water pipes. So there's

a lot of destruction that's going to have to be repaired, and the question is of course, Richard, how is it going to be done? Now, in the past, Qatar

had provided funds to Hamas with Israel's acquiescence to manage, to run the Gaza Strip, and we saw in the previous three wars afterwards, there was

an ability to rebuild.

The problem is that it's not necessary aid that's desperately needed. What Gaza needs is for the Egyptian-Israeli blockade that's been in place in

Gaza since 2007 after Hamas took over to somehow either be eased or lifted to allow some sort of economic life to resume here. Unemployment is running

at around 50 percent, and that's a pre-war estimate. And the United States is talking about -- because we heard from President Biden, channeling money

through the Palestinian authority. The Palestinian authority is in Ramalllah. It doesn't really have a presence here, and how it's going to

disperse funds for reconstruction is anybody's guess.

And it's interesting, the blockade, I mentioned the blockade. It's caused immense suffering among ordinary Palestinians, but Hamas, after each of the

previous three wars was able to rebuild its military capabilities, rebuild its stockpile of rockets. So it really hasn't impacted Hamas, but it's made

life miserable for the 2 million people living here. Richard?

QUEST: OK, now, let's focus just on what you mentioned. I noticed also what the president said, you know, I'm talking about the Palestinian authority,

I'm not talking about Hamas, he made it quite clear. But if Hamas is the leadership in Gaza, then you're going -- this whole thing is going nowhere,

because if the U.S. won't talk to Hamas and the Palestinian authority hasn't had its elections -- and we're not really quite sure of the strength

of Abbas any way over the West Bank go -- where does it leave us tonight?

WEDEMAN: It leads us nowhere, Richard. It is going nowhere. Basically, since the collapse of the peace process in the Summer of 2000, the

situation here, writ large, the West Bank, east Jerusalem, Gaza, Israel, has just gone from bad to worse, because the political horizon, the

horizon, the opportunity, the possibility of some sort of political resolution of this century-old conflict has simply gone into the deep

freeze. There's been no real progress.

[16:15:00]

The Palestinians are divided between Gaza run by Hamas, and nobody is particularly happy about that here. And Fatah through the Palestinian

authority running the West Bank, and people feel that they're simply out of touch, corrupt, and incompetent and basically sort of doing the dirty work

for the Israelis in the West Bank. It's gone nowhere. Some fundamental change has to come about for the situation to improve, otherwise, we're

simply in this cycle here in Gaza. A period of calm followed by a war, massive destruction, some reconstruction, a period of calm, war, and so on

and so forth. This is the fate of Gaza.

If there's not some sort of change in the way the world deals with this crisis, and listening to President Biden, it seems as if he's back in the

1990s, entertaining fantasies of a two-state solution. It didn't work. Something has to be done differently to get out of this cycle of war --

QUEST: Right --

WEDEMAN: Reconstruction and war again. Richard?

QUEST: Ben, we will have a new week next week when we can talk again to see whether anything is going to be done, but I suspect it will take more than

a weekend for us. Thank you, have a good weekend if you can with all the duties that you'll be involved with. It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS and

cryptocurrencies are facing a crisis. The prices keep plummeting. The future of bitcoin and crypto, does it have one? Yes, of course, it does.

Well, maybe not so sure. After the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: And so to the close of business. And U.S. markets were mixed. The Dow was up 123, but the S&P and the Nasdaq both were lower for the week.

The S&P and Dow both finished down, the Nasdaq eked out a small gain. Bitcoin is still looking to see where the bottom might be, it was done more

than 10 percent over the last 24 hours as it faces new regulatory pressures, down at 35,000. It's a moment of truth to the entire crypto

sector. Coin base is down around 12 percent for the week and nearly 30 percent since its IPO last month. Aswath Damodaran is the professor of

finance at NYU Stern Business School, he joins me from California. Professor, good to have you, sir, thank you.

[16:20:00]

I read your interesting views that it really does depend on what one perceives as the role of a cryptocurrency, a store of value, a means of

exchange or a speculative aspect. What do you see crypto as?

ASWATH DAMODARAN, PROFESSOR OF FINANCE, NYU STERN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: Yes, this is always what confused me when I talk to bitcoin folks. I consider

myself a skeptic. I'm open to the possibility that crypto is at the place, I'm just not sure what that place is. And I'll give you the four possible

pathways for a cryptocurrency. The first is that it becomes a currency that you use for transactions, to buy and sell stuff, that's a typical currency.

The second is, it's a collectible, it's like gold. Millennial gold, you hold on to it because you don't trust central banks, you don't trust

currency.

The third is it becomes the currency for use among dark money, and essentially even the recent hack of the pipeline, the Colonial Pipeline,

the hackers wanted to be paid in bitcoin. And finally, and this is the fourth choice, that maybe it's a fall-back currency for countries like

Venezuela where the existing currency has fallen apart. I haven't heard some bitcoin boasts a coherent end game for bitcoin. And as long as you

don't have an end game, this is exactly what you're going to see. You're going the see weeks in which bitcoin goes up 30 percent, weeks in which it

drops, and there's really no good reason you can point to. It's become almost entirely as speculative, yes.

QUEST: Even as sort of legitimate organizations, financial institutions, maybe with the exception of Tesla, but you know, accept bitcoin, agree to

hold bitcoin as part of their portfolios and the like. Until there is a fixed linkage between the crypto and fiat money, all the recognizable means

of exchange, then it must necessarily be hobbled. And I wonder, I mean, I know you think ether stands more chance than bitcoin, but where does ether

stand in all of this?

DAMODARAN: Well, ether is actually, the end game is not to be a currency, it's to be a commodity. Ether's big sales pitch is blockchains are going to

be part of the way we do transactions in the future. So, even without cryptos, blockchain is clearly an innovation. And ether is designed to make

blockchains run better. It's a lubricant. So, the argument for ether is more of a commodity argument. If everybody is switching to blockchains, and

you need ether to run these blockchains, well, the demand for ether will go up. So, from that perspective, there's at least an end game I can see for

ether that I cannot see for bitcoin.

I mean, bitcoin -- I mean, I've described bitcoin as a currency created by paranoids, all paranoids. You trust nobody in bitcoin. And you cannot have

a currency where you trust no one. You need to have trust in somebody for an efficient currency to work.

QUEST: Unless the system -- I'm going to argue with you here, professor. Unless the system works, there's a finite amount, unlike dogecoin which is

basically an incontinent of just being able to print what you like, and lessons that -- and you trust in the system itself.

DAMODARAN: You could, but you need an efficient currency. And I'll tell you why bitcoin has a problem. If I bought a cup of coffee with a bitcoin at a

Starbucks for $6, it will cost $3 to get the transaction verified because a 1,000 Ukrainian miners have to get on their computers and check to see

whether I have enough bitcoin in my wallet to pay for my coffee. That's not efficient. You cannot design a currency where it takes that much resources

to check a transaction. So, even if there's trust in the system, it's just not an efficiently designed system, and because it's not efficiently

designed, these are not just growing pains.

I don't see an end game where bitcoin is going to be widely accepted for transactions. And it doesn't have to be a fixed exchange rate. I mean, even

regular currencies, but you can't have a currency that drops 30 percent one day and rises 25 --

QUEST: So --

DAMODARAN: The next. People won't want to use it on transactions.

QUEST: Right, so, I mean, you are doing -- you are sort of doing the world is round to the flat worlders, aren't you, by saying this? You're pointing

out some unpalatable realities. But what I want to impress is that you're not calling into question the future of blockchain as a means of future

transaction.

DAMODARAN: Absolutely not. I think blockchain is the real innovation that comes out of bitcoin. And we need to thank the bitcoin creators for having

created blockchain along the way, but blockchain and bitcoin can be separated. You can have a blockchain in U.S. dollars, you can have a

blockchain in ether. There's no requirement that bitcoin and blockchain be locked at the hip.

[16:25:00]

QUEST: Very good to have you with us tonight, professor. We'll talk more. Thank you, sir, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

DAMODARAN: Thank you.

QUEST: Yes, Tim Cook has told a federal court that Apple does not have a monopoly. The Apple chief executive took the stand in the company's trial

involving Epic Games, the maker of Fortnite. Now, Epic is claiming Apple's strict rules with the app store are hurting competition. Clare Sebastian

has been listening to the trial. How did he perform, Mr. Cook? Because this is the first time he's actually ever given evidence in a trial of this

nature.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Right, Richard, we've seen him in front of Congress, but we've never seen him in federal court before.

Yes, I would say he was composed. It was, you know, long and technical. There were a lot of different questions, and I think he maintained his

stance. He was sort of serious and composed. But you know, the arguments are a lot of them we've heard before throughout this case which has now

been going on for three weeks. He said that the app store is not a monopoly, it faces plenty of competition from other ecosystems like

Google's Android, from other device makers like Samsung and LG and Huawei, and the gaming space from the likes of PlayStation and Xbox.

He says that those fees that are so controversial, the 30 percent commission fees that Epic is disputing, they go to good use. He says

they're used for things like developer tools and to make the app store private and secure for its users. He also called it an economic miracle for

all the many jobs that it's created. But look, he did face some really tough questioning, in particular at the end today, from the judge herself -

- now, this isn't a jury trial, Richard, this is just the judge. This is a bench trial. She has to decide.

And at the end, she looked at something that Apple did last year where it lowered those commission fees for smaller businesses. Anyone with under a

million dollars in revenue to 15 percent. And she said, look, we don't think you did that because of competition. We think you did that because of

all these investigations and lawsuits. And Tim Cook said, no, I did this because I'm worried about these small businesses amid COVID. But he

admitted that he did have this lawsuit at the back of his mind. So, an interesting exchange there, and particularly significant since it's down to

the judge to make this decision.

QUEST: The -- what -- and yes, of course, it will appeal, whoever wins or loses, it will appeal all the way up if they can. I do wonder what comes

out of this, bearing in mind the arguments are so well rehearsed, but this is the first time the app store has been put to the test in such a way.

SEBASTIAN: Right, and Epic is not demanding monetary damages here, Richard. Epic is demanding that Apple change its business model. They're looking for

injunctive relief. So, if this goes in their favor, this could mean real changes across the Apple ecosystem. And it's going to be looked at, not

only by this judge, but all the documents and all the discovery in this case is going to be looked up by Congress, Senators like Amy Klobuchar who

are contemplating legislation that could change the way the app store operates. There's an investigation in Europe, we know that the EU has

charged Apple with abuse of power. So, there's all sorts of things going on and everyone is going to be looking at the outcome of this case.

QUEST: But hats off to Cook for doing it. For -- I mean, at the end of the day to give evidence, you have to have a pretty detailed knowledge. So,

there is a clear implication here that as CEO, which of course perhaps is to be expected, he is in it up to his elbows.

SEBASTIAN: Right, and he did have, you know, knowledge of the detail of the case. And I think it shows how seriously Apple is taking it, that they put

him on the stand, you know, at all. And we're coming to the end here, the closing arguments are expected on Monday. So he really was sort of the

closer for Apple in all of this. And I think, you know, as it wraps up and we hear those closing arguments, his contribution will be pretty

significant, Richard.

QUEST: Clare Sebastian in New York. Thank you. The Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi says we have to move fast to vaccinate the world. Now Europe

is pledging more than a billion vaccine doses to make that happen after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:00]

QUEST: Europe is pledging to supply more than a billion vaccine to low- income countries. It will be a mix of Pfizer, Moderna and J&J. And as we came with their global health summit held in Rome and the Italian Prime

Minister Mario Draghi says it was vital to move quickly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIO DRAGHI, ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER: As we prepare for the next pandemic, our priority must be to ensure that we all overcome the current one

together. We must vaccinate the world and do it fast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Most of the doses pledged will be Pfizer, European Commission President said Europe would develop regional hubs across Africa to make the

manufacturing process easier. Africa is lagging behind quite considerably. Look at the map it shows the percentage of country's population that's been

vaccinated. We don't have data for some countries, for example, Morocco is the only country in double digits across Africa. But some people take

Africa as a whole, you're talking about 1.2 percent, less than 10 percent over vast, vast tracts of the developing world.

Earlier I spoke to the head of the OECD, Angel Gurria who said this disparity is one of those urgent issues facing the world right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGEL GURRIA, SECRETARY GENERAL, OECD: The fact that today we have a, you know, a two-speed scenario where you have all the vaccines and all the

fiscal space in the developed countries of the world. And then you have no vaccines, or very few vaccines and no fiscal space in the developing

countries in the emerging economies. So I would say that, that is the next immediate, very urgent issue that we have to tackle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now Dr. Krishna Udayakumar runs the Duke Global Health Innovation Center tracking the global vaccine rollout worldwide, and works with

companies like Pfizer, he's with me now from North Carolina. There's no getting over it, Doctor. The numbers are appalling. One point I've got your

numbers 1.2 percent in Africa, 4.8 percent in Asia, those numbers are not going to rise fast, because India is not going to be able to export for

many months.

DR. KRISHNA UDAYAKUMAR, DIRECTOR, DUKE GLOBAL HEALTH INNOVATION CENTER: You're exactly right. And while the announcements today were nice to make,

they're really not going to make a material difference in the next three to six months. So the inequities around the world are actually going to get

worse. And what I fear is that as some of our high-income countries, including the U.S. begin to turn the corner, the global situation is going

to feel less urgent for us, so we're actually going to start ignoring it as opposed to paying more attention to it.

QUEST: Is the United States hoarding? I mean, there is -- I was at a football match a soccer match last weekend filming and the supporters club

in the tailgate party. They're handing out vaccines. They're doing vaccines for free. You can get vaccine lottery. There's this vaccine coming out of

the nostrils in this country.

[16:35:08]

UDAYAKUMAR: Yes, we are in a fortunate situation where we have more supply than demand at the moment. If we look around the world, almost 1.6 billion

vaccine doses have been administered. And we think there's probably somewhere between 200 and 300 million additional doses that have already

been produced, and maybe half of those in the U.S. that are available right now. So we do think it's urgent. They're working on purpose and leaving

these on shelves. But many countries, especially the U.S. are at a place now, where it should be within days and weeks, not months and years that we

start sending vaccines overseas.

QUEST: OK, so sketch the picture of why this is significant in the sense of besides the obviousness of it, you know, what are the effects of having the

E.U., U.K., Australia, New Zealand, United States, Canada, fully vaccinated, and then large swathes of Latin America, Africa, and Southeast

Asia not? What are the practical implications of that?

UDAYAKUMAR: Yeah, first, we shouldn't ignore that it would be shameful from a humanitarian and ethical perspective.

QUEST: Right.

UDAYAKUMAR: But even if we're purely self-interested, our health is not protected, so long as we start to see variants of concern emerge from

places like Brazil and India, as they have from the U.K. and elsewhere. So our vaccine mediated protection is not secure, so long as the pandemic

continues, and our economic recovery and our economic growth will not be nearly as strong if the rest of the world is dealing with a pandemic, while

we're trying to grow our economies.

QUEST: I can't see any easy or obvious way in which these other countries get to anything like decent levels until the middle of next year?

UDAYAKUMAR: Unfortunately, I think you're right. But what we do need right now is to move more vaccine to low and middle income countries. Almost all

the pledges we've seen so far, say end of 2021 to hit some target. That's more than seven months away. And we will lose untold lives unless we really

think about the urgency in a matter of days and weeks. So in June, in July, which has set targets for how many vaccines, we can get over to low and

middle income countries and make sure that we're approaching something a little less inequitable, at least than what we have today.

QUEST: I mean the inequality that existed in the world, both health and ultimately economic inequality, which would lead to gender and all the

others that flow from that has basically been put on steroids because of this pandemic.

UDAYAKUMAR: It really has we are at risk of losing decades of progress in terms of global health, global poverty, unless we make course corrections

very quickly.

QUEST: Do you think anybody's listening?

UDAYAKUMAR: We hope so people are saying the right things. We know that the G20 Global Health Summit was today. They said the right things. The World

Health Assembly is coming up. We hope that the G7 Leaders Summit hosted by the U.K. coming up in June can be a bit of an inflection point where many

of the G7 economies will be on a course that they can become stronger partners to produce and supply and support with the rest of the world

needs.

QUEST: Do you find it weird that whilst, well, you're not talking about large scale death in other parts of the world. There are people in these

developed countries, U.K. and E.U. who are quarreling and arguing over whether the AstraZeneca has a ridiculously low rate of potential blood

clots the sort of thing that you won't even think about with another medication?

UDAYAKUMAR: Yes, it's heartbreaking on a level that we're seeing the humanitarian crisis happening in India, in Brazil. We're seeing threats

across Sub-Saharan Africa as rates rise in certain countries. And yet, we're worried about very small things relative to what the big picture

really is. So the more we can ensure that we fully understand including populations in the U.S., in Europe, in the U.K., that the pandemic really

will not be over for us so long as it's going on anywhere else in the world. We all say it but what we're feeling now is the visceral sense that

we are not safe and we will not recover unless we support the rest of the world to do the same.

QUEST: You wait, Doctor, the moment those of us in the wealthy world actually feel the effects of what you've just said that we're not safe

until everybody else is. There will soon be shipping vaccines by the ton to -- for our own self-interest. Good to see your Doctor. Thank you. It's the

message we needed to hear now.

I need to show you very quickly European markets, which before we finished, the FTSE was the only index to fall the rest, not huge gains and the FTSE

barely budged off slightly to France and Germany pledged to share 30 million vaccine doses to the developing world as part of the summit.

[16:40:06]

And the New York market closed 39, 40 minutes ago and the Dow as you'll be able to see in the moment, the Dow was up 123 off the best of the day. But

nonetheless, bearing in mind the sort of movements you've seen, I'll take it. And that's QUEST Means Business for the moment. I'll be back at the top

of the hour. Together, we'll make a dash for the closing bell, which actually rang a few moments ago. You get the idea. Coming up next,

Connecting Africa. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:58:11]

QUEST: Allow me to quest. We have our dash to the closing bell. The bell itself rang an hour or two ago, but there we are, nonetheless. A final

recap on the day on Wall Street, it was mixed. The Dow showed great promise early on and then it gave away, then it came back. But as you can see, by

the end, down a third, up a third of a percent 123.69, the S&P, the triple stack shows the S&P was up slightly as indeed the NASDAQ. But the small

numbers really reflect the fact that it was sort of wait and see and watch and wait. It all helped start the snap its longest weekly losing streak

since August, a down day for Bitcoin as well. Bitcoin was down some -- down below 36,000.

Look at the total number, the reds versus the greens on the Dow 30. Boeing is up 3 percent that's on the back of perhaps being able to make more max

planes you had AT&T, you've got Verizon in the middle there. At the back end of it, you've got Apple down the trial continues over fortnight and

wait to see how that one goes along. Tim Cook was testifying in that epic battle if you like with Epic Games.

So that's the way things looking. Once again, Bitcoin is still down somewhat over worries over where it's going next. We'll have all of that

next week on Quest Means Business. That's the dash to the bell. I'm Richard Quest, whatever you're up to in the weekend ahead I hope it's profitable.

Now believe you can top up.

END