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Quest Means Business

QMB Live From The Guggenheim Museum; Cooling Prices Raise Hopes Of Soft Landing; New York Under Heat Advisory; Emmy Awards Ceremony Postponed; Zelenskyy: Russian Missile Hits Two Buildings In Dnipro; Singapore Executes Woman For Drug Trafficking. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 28, 2023 - 15:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:26]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: It is a baking hot Friday here in New York City, and we thankfully are in the wonderful cool inside of one of

New York's finest art museum, it is a Summer Friday, that thankfully, it is on the indoors. I'll explain in a moment.

The markets has an hour left to trade on Wall Street. Take a look at the Dow and you'll see where we are along with the market. The market is up

174, strong gains after yesterday's not severe, but losses, but those are the markets and these are the events we're talking about today.

Tonight, we've got the Guggenheim Museum chief curator, who is going to be discussing the thorniest issues and debates of the art world: How to

diversify collections and introduce the public to new artists, and at the same time, make sure you stay in business.

President Erdogan in Turkey shakes up his Central Bank after unorthodox monetary policy. What is going to come next?

And the Emmy Awards are postponed as the writers and artists strike now really starts to bite.

We're live tonight at the Guggenheim Museum in New York. It is Friday. It's July the 28th.

I'm Richard Quest, and amongst the works of art, I definitely mean business.

And a warm welcome to the Guggenheim Museum, the latest in our summer series. Summer Fridays, a day when everybody gets to go a little bit

easier, except for those of us making these programs, and we are on New York's Museum Mile just on Fifth Avenue.

We are at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum where countless treasures are located. The building itself of course, is a true masterpiece both inside

and out.

Now the building is named after Solomon R. Guggenheim, a businessman of course, an art collector extraordinaire, and he wanted to share his love of

art.

The museum itself opened in 1959. It has become a staple of the neighborhood. If you take the Met, the Frick, the Guggenheim, you have this

museum mile along Fifth Avenue but unlike the others, the unique nature of this building, the Guggenheim sets it apart.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST (voice over): It was a building designed to spiral to the heavens layer upon layer of artwork open for all to see, no hidden corners here.

The Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum is a masterpiece in itself. Designed by Frank Lloyd Wright, who never lived to see its completion. It is recognized

as a national landmark and a UNESCO World Heritage Site. The building is smaller than the nearby Metropolitan Museum of Art, just up the road, part

of the Museum Mile, yet it still captures the imagination of Hollywood in movies, like "Men in Black."

[VIDEO CLIP OF "MEN IN BLACK" PLAYS]

QUEST (voice over): And of course, shows like "Sex and the City."

(VIDEO CLIP OF "SEX AND THE CITY.")

QUEST (voice over): Now in a post-COVID world, the museum faces a new set of challenges. Visitor numbers have yet to fully recover from pre-pandemic

levels, echoing other institutions across New York and it must grapple with questions of social justice, whose artwork is being displayed? Where is the

funding coming from?

And the museum isn't shy about tackling the thorny issues in our society. It is funding a new initiative to promote art at the intersection of art

and technology, and its chief curator is the first Black person to hold the post.

She and the team hope they can take the art museum with the unusual building and push it to ever greater heights.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:05:10]

Now, what makes the Guggenheim different is the way in which it is constantly evolving. Most of this space, if you just look around, and you

see the rotating nature of it is for rotating exhibitions, often shining a spotlight on newer and newer artists, more contemporaneous works, those at

the forefront, which is what we'll be talking about, of course, as the show continues, particularly the intersection of art and AI, and pushing

boundaries to the future, and pushing those boundaries is Naomi Beckwith, the chief curator.

She believes perhaps, besides all the wonderful art within, the building itself, of course, is the greatest work of art.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NAOMI BECKWITH, CHIEF CURATOR, THE GUGGENHEIM MUSEUMS AND FOUNDATION: I think this is probably one of the most beautiful, awe-inspiring places in

the world.

When Frank Lloyd Wright got the commission to do this building, he was asked to build a Temple of the Spirit, and Frank said, okay, I'm going to

create A., a place that is inspiring, physically, and spiritually; but I'm also going to create an engineering and architectural wonder.

And you look around, it is the only building in the round, the only museum in the round in the world such as this, and what he wanted to do was create

the storing space, with no visible support in the middle, no columns, no pillars, but open air so that when you walk in, you literally are taken

immediately to the heavens.

QUEST: I was reading about your views on the changing nature.

BECKWITH: Yes.

QUEST: The controversial changing nature of galleries, museums.

Sometimes it can be as basic as reflecting acts that are no longer considered acceptable. How do you balance that in a museum, do you think or

an art gallery?

BECKWITH: You know, it's funny to think of it as a balance. I don't know if it's even accurate. I think we're not asking how do we take the old ways

and balance it with the news? We're always asking how do we move forward.

And one of the most important things for us is to make sure we're telling the most fulsome art history possible. We have a story about history, that

is about amazing heroes of art, people who have done incredible art objects, but as we all realize, many of those heroes tend to come in the

form of White men, with all due respect, Richard.

But it is the case that there have been amazing, amazing movements across the globe. And of course, even right here in the US and in the West, with

women, with people of color, immigrant populations, and even the impoverished.

QUEST: Okay, so that's part of that equation.

BECKWITH: Yes, that is.

QUEST: But what about the revisionist idea, or the idea of the statues that have fallen or felled. The statues that have felled because these

people had slaves. How far do we allow ourselves, rather than just simply say that was then --

BECKWITH: That was then a different time. I think it's always important to look back at history and look at it critically.

You have to ask questions, not only about what was made, but what were the sources of that wealth? What were the conditions that allowed that wealth

to grow and extrapolate? And how is culture connected to those questions?

QUEST: So if all of those questions ended up being answered in the negative, but it was still a bloody good piece of art, and he is still an

excellent sculpture, does the statue stand?

BECKWITH: I think the statue you moves.

I think there's a difference between being an artwork that is an excellent sculpture, and one that is a monument. And a monument is something that

celebrates a history. And if we understand that, that history shouldn't be celebrated, then I think we take that once monument, now, excellent, maybe

sculpture, and I say maybe in some of these cases, we take that somewhere and put it in a different context.

We move it inside, and we put it next to another artwork that may tell a different history.

QUEST: This is a tremendous institution in New York, and the health of museums like this is not in doubt, but museums elsewhere are in real

trouble.

BECKWITH: That's true.

QUEST: And it's harder to make the case for financing museums publicly when for example, healthcare systems. What argument would you say against

that?

BECKWITH: I would say, imagine the world without a sense of beauty.

[15:10:10]

Imagine the world without creators. Imagine a world without music, or literature, or a sense of visuality.

We know that we will be not only impoverished without a world -- in a world without those creative aspects, we'd actually be dead inside as a society.

We cannot live wholly on our right brain. We can't live with just rational thought. We can't live just with healthy bodies. We need inspiration. We

need vision. And we need to be together.

And one of the most wonderful things for me about this building is not only do you look across and see art. You look across and you see people. You see

people walking up and down the spiral. And so art is always in the context of being together in society with other people.

And so the culture of our world is the thing that holds us together, so I ask that we always invest in that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: We will be talking more to Naomi later in the program and we will be exploring further this idea of the forefront of art, particularly now as

it relates to AI.

Inflation is cooling on both sides of the Atlantic. We know that from the US, and now we've got statistics showing it is happening also in Europe and

that has helped the market be positive all day.

Look at the Dow. It's been up throughout the whole session, and we're heading for a third winning week. So although we didn't break the record of

1897, or whatever that might have been, we are going to have a strong session at the end of the week.

The S&P is also showing strong gains at nearly one percent, and the NASDAQ has the best of it all, it is up nearly two percent.

German inflation down to 6.5 percent. Actually, now they believe, down to a mere 6.5 percent. The Germans, of course, having a conviction in previous

times with that sort of level.

France is down to five percent, and the thought might be that the ECB, might at least pause their rate hikes coming forward. They raised rates

yesterday and Christine Lagarde certainly didn't seem as if she was in a pausing mood.

Rana is with me. Rana, I wish you were here looking at the lovely works of art at the Guggenheim.

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: I know. I know. Next time.

QUEST: You keep missing all of these -- you miss all of these great days out that I have. But listen --

FOROOHAR: Well, today is one of days we have to live in the aircon.

QUEST: At these levels, Rana, do the ECB hold pause, or do they continue to raise rates?

FOROOHAR: Listen, it's an incredibly tough call and I'll tell you why.

Even within Europe, I see a lot of nuance country by country in drivers of inflation and the inflation picture. You mentioned Germany, Germany is

seeing a little bit of a pulling back from external inflationary factors, like energy relative to the past, but it is still higher than in say,

France.

The Eurozone as a whole is looking at more internally driven inflation rather than some of the external factors, supply chains, commodities, et

cetera that we've seen. The US is a whole different story. You know, we can get into that, but there is just a tremendous amount of nuance in

individual countries at this moment.

QUEST: So what we're really coming down to is whether or not this higher for longer, we've reached the higher bit where you and I talk here today,

only about the longer bit. Now, at these rates for a longer period, will it be sufficient for European ECB inflation to come down, regardless of the

fact that there will be disparities between the member countries?

FOROOHAR: You know, I'm going to go out on a limb and say I wouldn't be surprised to see another couple of rate hikes in Europe, and I'll tell you

why. I see a more tightness in the labor market. I see structural energy issues that you might see some improvement in areas like France, but

Germany is going to be tough.

The price gouging is still an issue in Europe, actually, interestingly, more so I think than in the US. You see profit margins in European

companies. You know, they're really trying to hold on to them still.

So we'll see, you know, how consumers behave is going to be the tell, right? I mean, are people going to put up with higher prices? Are they

simply going to really pull way back quickly?

QUEST: Rana, yesterday, I was talking to John Lipsky, who you'll know very well, and he is now at the National Bureau of Economic Research, and

we're talking about the results of AI and the effects of AI.

[15:15:01]

In a moment or two, we're going to be talking about AI and art. I know, you're very keen on AI and the way in which AI is going to completely

revolutionize everything and I think it is a good example from economics through to the art, but we haven't even scratched it yet.

FOROOHAR: Yes. A hundred percent.

You know, it's funny what you say about art. I'm actually a little bearish on AI and art, in part because I was recently at the MOMA and saw a big

exhibition. Very unimpressed.

I mean, I think it is one thing to simply iterate more and more perfect versions of what's already out there. It's another to come up with a fresh

idea. So I'm not real worried, not only in the visual arts, but frankly, in the creative arts, which gets to the Hollywood strikes.

I'm not worried about AI creating the next "Succession" or "Sopranos," maybe, you know, "NCSI: East Hampton," okay, sure. But, you know, I'm not

worried about AI and arts.

However, AI and industry, major deflationary tailwind. I think it's going to be deployed more in the US before Europe though.

QUEST: Come with me next week to the New Jersey Shore. We will just be parked next weekend, for the next-- on our next Summer Fridays.

I will tell you, if you come along, I'll even buy the candy floss and the ice creams. You don't get a better offer than that this weekend.

FOROOHAR: I would like that. I might be there.

QUEST: Bring the kids. Lovely. Rana, have a lovely weekend. Thank you very much indeed.

Coming up: We've just been talking about AI and the algorithmic nature of art. Well, after the break, Stephanie Dinkins is with ne. She is an artist

whose work delves into the relationship with the algorithms effect, especially when it comes to communities of color.

It is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. We are absolutely delighted tonight to be at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum, one of the true landmarks in New York.

Just look at that. Magnificent.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: The weather is exceptionally hot here in New York today. Absolutely oppressive. It's about 32 degrees in New York City with a heat

index of 35 degrees, that's in Celsius of course.

Here in the US, it would be in Fahrenheit, so it is 95. I suspect it actually feels considerably hotter when you're outside there.

[15:20:02]

It's the second day of dangerously hot weather, the US heatwave. So far the Northeast of the US has been spared the worst of it. As you can hear, it

has sort of gone on my chest a bit, and they get all a bit wheezy.

Now, I'm on Fifth Avenue and 88th Street, which is Museum Mile at the Guggenheim. If I were to go three miles, directly south on Fifth Avenue, I

would end up in Washington Square Park.

In Washington Square Park, I would find Miguel Marquez, who is down there where it is absolutely -- I know, you're literally on the other end of

Fifth Avenue.

But Miguel, I'm in the air conditioned beauty of the Guggenheim, you're standing under the Washington Square arch. It must be -- you must be

shvitzing.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. schvitzing, can we say that on air?

Absolutely. It is hot out. But look, New Yorkers are used to heat like this, but it has been a very long, overly hot July.

We're in Washington Square Park. We're actually waiting for the fountain. They usually have this thing going. And everybody's in there having a good

time and staying cool. But they cleaned it out today, of course, and they're priming it and we're waiting for it to get started again.

A relatively normal day here in Washington Square Park, but people are trying to stay cool. The city warning people to keep those thermometers at

about 78 degrees. What is that? About twenty, twenty-five or so Celsius.

There's a lot of cooling centers set up across the entire country right now. It's not just New York in the East Coast, it is all the way to the

other coast as well. Phoenix, Arizona, which is used to heat is having some of the worst ever. That city has broken records over 15 days so far this

year of over 115 degrees heat. What is that? Forty-six degrees.

They have actually brought in more refrigerators for the morgue there in Maricopa County in the event that they have more heat-related deaths. Even

those famous saguaro cacti there, those giant saguaro cacti, it is so hot in Phoenix, that some of them are wilting and starting to feel the effects

of the heat as well.

So it is dangerously hot for anyone working outdoors or having to be outdoors all day. People trying to make sure that no one suffers from heat

exhaustion or heat stroke even worse -- Richard.

QUEST: I challenge you. Here is a challenge for you, Miguel. I challenge you could buy yourself a nice big ice cream and put it on your expenses and

see if you get it through.

MARQUEZ: I've already done -- we have a gallon of it that we're going to put down later.

QUEST: Send some up this way. Miguel Marquez, when the fountains -- I'll pay good money, good money to charity to see you in the fountains.

Thank you, sir. Miguel Marquez joining us from the park.

Now, the beauty of art is the question of the various movements, the different artists, the times upon which they painted, and the way they

pushed agendas forward.

So for instance, you have the Dutch Golden Age of Baroque in the 16th Century. It was epitomized by Johannes Vermeer. Who wouldn't like to have a

Vermeer on their wall at the moment?

But the Vermeer moves on to the impressionism developed in France in the mid-19th Century. Best of course, exemplified by Monet, Claude Monet.

You move forward into cubism, in early 20th Century pioneered by Pablo Picasso. Indeed here at the Guggenheim, they have the early works of

Picasso from his Paris years here.

Experts believe we might be in the beginning of a major art shake up, which is all predicated by AI.

Stephanie Dinkins is the recent recipient of the first LG Guggenheim Award celebrating artists at intersection of art and technology.

I am honored, delighted, and privileged that you're with me, Stephanie.

STEPHANIE DINKINS, ARTIST: It is great to be here.

QUEST: How lovely. Thank you.

DINKINS: Thank you.

QUEST: What do you mean, when you talk about it? Because you're not just talking about art and AI, you're relating it specifically to issues of

people of color?

DINKINS: Yes, definitely. I think of it as art, AI and society, and how AI is going to impact specifically, people -- right? And what we need to be

doing now to have a future that might support us in the long run.

I'm thinking about care and technology, which is something that a lot of people tell me is not good, but --

QUEST: But AI is so new and nascent. Don't we need to think about what it's going to do to everything first? Why -- I mean, I know it's a chicken

and egg in a sense.

DINKINS: Yes.

QUEST: You are trying to get ahead of the game.

DINKINS: Yes.

QUEST: You're trying to prevent the problem before it happens.

DINKINS: Exactly. Yes, so I'm trying to think about the people who you usually get left out, right? And so yes, I think some people do need to be

thinking about where AI is generally, but I think it's really important that Black communities, indigenous communities, disabled communities start

thinking about where they're going to stand ten, fifteen, twenty years from now.

[15:25:16]

QUEST: So how does that relate to art? Explain to me this interrelationship?

Because I walk around here and I see the technological pieces, and I can understand the creation of art by AI could be a problem. But that's not

really what you mean.

DINKINS: Right. No, I'm not doing art by AI, I'm doing art in collaboration with AI. And for me, what that means is, I'm playing in the field of AI to

see what I can get out of it and it is the way I express myself best.

QUEST: What does it mean? Give me an example.

DINKINS: It means it's a way to think and a way to express and it means it's a way to put my community into a system, both the art system and the

AI system in a way that I see fit.

So for example, I've made a piece that is a chatbot based on my family's history. And that thing grew from something I thought would be a memoir

that simply talked about us to something I now think of as a kind of extension of the family, a new member of the family. Right?

So I'm trying to push the technology to see where it can go.

QUEST: How do you worry that your community will be left out?

DINKINS: Oh, I worry really that we will be flattened. Right, flattened.

So there is the idea that we will be super surveilled, but I also think that when you put ideas about Blackness or other communities in that are

not correct, that have biases built in from long, long ago, that don't quite have a full picture of what the community is, or as we, as Black

people or Brown people understand ourselves, then it can't support us well.

All right, and so my idea is, I want to help it understand. I want it to know more, and that is controversial in some ways, right?

But I think it's really important that we're trying to train these things as Silicon Valley is training these things to do well by us.

QUEST: What do you make of this place?

DINKINS: I love this place. I think, you know --

QUEST: I sometimes think when I come here, it's sort of a bit odd and a bit weird and a bit strange.

DINKINS: It is, but I've always wanted to skateboard down it, right? Skateboard.

But it's this place where you get all these people from different walks of life, coming to think about new ideas, right? And that's why I like AI as

art, because we can address the general public in ways that they can understand, take on and keep moving around.

QUEST: Will you come back again on this program and talk more and show us more? Help me understand more.

DINKINS: I would love to.

QUEST: About AI and all.

DINKINS: Yes. Let's do it.

QUEST: I don't get it fully. I don't get it yet.

DINKINS: Okay. Well, we'll try, right? Just think of it as thought in action in a form that is touching the future really soon.

QUEST: Thank you very much, Stephanie.

DINKINS: Thank you.

QUEST: It is a pleasure.

DINKINS: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

QUEST: Well, we continue on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. We will be meeting the curator again, and I get to do something that very few people get to do

from up there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: How many people get to stand at the Guggenheim and talk? I've always wanted to do that.

BECKWITH: Your voice booms across the rotunda.

QUEST: The genius.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:31:35]

QUEST: Welcome back to QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. There's a lot more as we continue from the Guggenheim Museum. The chief curator is going to give me

an art lesson. We're going to look around at some of the art, some of the more modern stuff. Why would not shouldn't be intimidating and I'm

intimidated to start with.

And September's Emmy Award ceremony has been postponed. The Writers are taking part. The Actors of course are taking part and we now wonder what's

going to happen. Chloe will be with me to talk to me about it. We will only get to those stories and they all work after I've updated you with the

headlines because this is CNN and on this network the news always comes first.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says a Russian missile strike hits a residential town, a security service building in the city of Dnipro. He

says all necessary services are on the site. Member of Parliament is in the city says he does not know of any casualties at this point.

A 45-year-old woman has been hanged in Singapore for attempted heroin trafficking. She's the first female prisoner executed that in almost 20

years. Human rights group are calling it a grim milestone for a country with no tourists, the harsh anti-drug laws.

Taylor Swift's contest -- concerts last weekend in Seattle, Washington were literally earthshaking (INAUDIBLE) just says the blasting music and

screaming fans caused the equivalent of a 2.3 magnitude earthquake. A similar phenomenon was recorded in 2011, during a Seattle Seahawks football

game.

If you don't know what you're doing, when you go to an art museum, it can be downright intimidating. And perhaps one of the beauties of the

Guggenheim is it's fun-like building. The round and round and round. But then some of the art inside can be a little bit strange and intimidating in

its own right. So that's why Naomi Beckwith, the chief curator left me a no doubt everyone's welcome.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NAOMI BECKWITH, THE CHIEF CURATOR, GUGGENHEIM: I don't want to see, oh, good Monet, a couple of water lilies every once in a while, and definitely

oat masters. We cannot deny that we still love those works. But what we need to do is add more to those conversations about what was happening.

QUEST: It's the difficult bait.

BECKWITH: Yes. The bait.

QUEST: That is the difficult bait to actually -- you've got your bait of your money.

BECKWITH: Yes.

QUEST: But the difficult bait is to add on to get people to appreciate the new stuff.

BECKWITH: I don't know if it's that difficult. I think it's a question of context. When people come in your building, do they feel comfortable? Do

they feel invited? Do they feel that they can trust themselves with their own ideas and their sense of exploration? We're here to spark curiosity,

not necessarily bait them with something and tell them that the rest of it is good. We want to bring them in and say, here's one concept of beauty.

And now, what does this in the 20th and 21st century mean to you?

QUEST: I can walk around here and I can appreciate that it is ours.

BECKWITH: Yes.

QUEST: But I don't understand it.

BECKWITH: Oh, well then, we should take a walk and begin to walk through some of this work and I think that is my work as a curator.

[15:35:01]

To walk maybe physically and sometimes with the -- maybe the text on the wall or with my colleagues who are tour guides to walk with you literally

through this art. And I always tell people, if you don't know what you're looking at, ask the most basic questions. What are you -- what is it? It's

a piece of paper, it's a rock, it's a stone, it's a pool of water. Well, what's next to it? The stone is next to a (INAUDIBLE) what does that mean?

What does that remind you of? Maybe it's about weight, about time, about geology.

QUEST: Let's look at some of this.

BECKWITH: Well, let's look at art. This is --

QUEST: Oh, come on, you're not telling me this is art.

BECKWITH: I'm going to tell you.

QUEST: This is the Guggenheim, for goodness' sake.

BECKWITH: This is the Guggenheim. But I will tell you that a wonderful woman named Sarah Sze made it and she is an artist. Sarah came up in the

1990s, where I think some of the notions of art were really exploding. And sort of one of the first things that she learned and really expanded up

upon was the idea that she could make sculpture that kind of exploded, so you didn't just stand there and look at it from one angle, you got to sort

of walk around.

And you've got to sort of view it from many angles. We call that installation art. So, all the sudden you and your body movements was part

of the experience.

QUEST: OK. But if I've looked at this.

BECKWITH: Yes.

QUEST: If I've looked at it, what is she trying -- what am I supposed to take for it that she wanted me to take from it? I may disagree with her

interpretation. But what is it that she wanted me to appreciate?

BECKWITH: You know what, Richard. Sometimes I wonder if that's the right question. In that, people always ask, what is the artist saying? What do

they want me to get from this? And I think that question more is, how can we think about this as almost a theater? Whereas you are the main actor?

And what kind of delivery and soliloquy would you give in this theater?

QUEST: How did you know when it was finished?

BECKWITH: Ah. You know, things change all the time.

QUEST: I'm not saying I would.

BECKWITH: Yes.

QUEST: But if I was to put an ornament or a -- when you weren't looking or a stapler.

BECKWITH: Yes, yes.

QUEST: So, I knew that. How long before anybody would even notice?

BECKWITH: Can I tell you a little secret?

QUEST: Go on.

BECKWITH: (INAUDIBLE) all the time?

QUEST: Really?

BECKWITH: Which I love.

QUEST: Really?

BECKWITH: I mean, in many ways, I do not.

QUEST: Yes.

BECKWITH: But what I love is that all of a sudden, people get that. They get it that it is almost a work in progress. Look, it really is something

that is building itself. If you look at this, it's almost a diamond shaped slice of a sphere.

QUEST: And I can sometimes be left feeling less than or ignorant.

BECKWITH: Yes.

QUEST: Because I don't appreciate that that bit of old nonsense is actually a piece of art that could be worth millions. To me, it looks like a few

bits old jumble sale. And I love feeling clearly there's something wrong with me. I don't get it. Whereas obviously, if I was only a bit brighter

and more intelligent, I would see the art.

BECKWITH: You should remember that when Rembrandt started painting, people didn't get it either. When Monet made those water lilies, everyone thought

the man who's going blind, and he has no sense of color, whatsoever. New art will always be challenging to its current audiences. And again, it is

his job at the museum to walk with you and say you should trust yourself. And if you don't get it, come back and come again and we'll keep learning

together.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Most certainly strong and good advice from the chief curator. When we come back, we turn our attention to something very different. The coup

in Niger and the power struggle that's underway. It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS live tonight. It's a summer Friday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:41:30]

QUEST: Back to economics now. And President Erdogan is shaking up the Turkish Central Bank arguably towards a more orthodox monetary policy. As

part of a shift by the president towards mainstream economics. Three new deputy governors are appointed, including a former New York Fed official

tackling inflation as the priority which stands at over 38 percent. The central bank's predicting it could hit 58 percent by the end of the year.

Adam Samson is with me. F.T.'s Turkey Correspondent. She's in Ankara. Adam, is this -- let's be clear and blunt. These new deputy governors a more

orthodox monetary policy. Is this a reversal by President Erdogan?

ADAM SAMSON, TURKEY CORRESPONDENT, FINANCIAL TIMES: Yes, absolutely. So there's been a pretty extraordinarily -- extraordinary reversal in economic

policy over the past sort of two months. And what we saw today is sort of just the latest extension of that. The three deputies that were appointed

at the Central Bank are seen by investors is very critical. Like you said, one of them used to work at the New York Federal Reserve, one of them was a

senior economist at a very large Turkish bank.

You all have very, very strong economic backgrounds. So, it's a really significant shift in filling up this institution with people who have very,

very strong pedigrees.

QUEST: OK. But is there any indication that President Erdogan has fundamentally shifted from his position that lower interest rates would

bring down inflation?

SAMSON: I think that's one of the biggest questions that economists and investors have. For sure, the Central Bank has already more than doubled

interest rates, more than doubled interest rates actually, over the past two months. That's a big shift for a president who has said repeatedly that

high interest rates are the mother and father of all evil was pushed back strongly against them.

So, it's certainly seen as a positive step. But investors are very, very concerned as to whether it's really going to stick with this new policy. In

the past, he sacked -- in 2001, he sacked the central bank governor who began raising interest rates.

QUEST: Adam, how much of this is a reflection, not of economic reality, but of the reality that he's been reelected. Therefore, there is a window of

opportunity for conventional economics to bring down inflation without having to worry about paying an electoral price.

SAMSON: Yes. I mean, the timing is certainly very, very interesting. President Erdogan was reelected in May. To me, I think he's basically been

forced to confront the economic reality, inflation is running at 38 percent, it's probably going to get a lot higher. They're very close to a

balance of payments crisis. So, I think he sort of knew that he had to do something and even if he didn't really want to.

But something that's really important thing to highlight is there's local elections coming up early next year. I think that's why people are so

concerned about whether he's going to stick with this path, given that it's going to be painful to put in place.

And this idea of a debt crisis, which has been simmering for some time. There's also the suggestion. He's literally running out of places to go to,

to get, to basically fund both fiscal deficit and trade deficit. The Gulf is starting to where it's -- a bit thin, Russia is no longer as available

as it was. He's running out of people to bank rolling.

SAMSON: Definitely. Before the election, that was certainly the case. I think the good news now is investors are warning benefit to this New

Economic Policy. President Erdogan was in the Gulf, U.S. and Saudi Arabia and in United Arab Emirates last week. And he did secure some new

investment commitments.

[15:45:09]

And there's been some signs investors assurances nibbled a little bit on the market now. I think because of that he's put new central bank governor

in and also new finance minister, someone named Mehmet Simsek, who's very, very, very highly regarded among foreign investors.

QUEST: Adam, we'll talk more about it. Very grateful for your time this Friday evening, joining us from Turkey. Thank you, sir.

A general has appeared on television in Niger claiming to be the president. It's part of this coup that has taken place where the elected president is

under arrest. But exactly what's going on in the country is far from clear, and who's in charge even less so.

CNN's Larry Madowo reports.

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Major developments out of Niger just days after the presidential got their first detained President Mohamed Bazoum

inside the presidential palace. Now, the coup plotters call themselves the CNSP. The National Council to Protect the Homeland say they have suspended

Niger's 13-year-old constitution and any institutions that arose out of it remain suspended.

These 17 men now run the country. And they are led by the leader of the presidential guard. He's been leader of the presidential guard since 2011.

He was inherited from the previous president. He's an ally of the last president of Niger, and he says he had to do this to protect the homeland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The action of the CSNP is motivated by the desire to preserve our beloved country. On the one hand, because of

the security degradation of our country, and this without the deposed authorities giving us a glimpse of a real way out of the crisis. Secondly,

because of the poor economic and social governance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADOWO: That motivations for overthrowing his boss are unclear here. But a private Nigerian newspaper reports that General Abdourahmane Tchiani or

Omar Tchiani, as he's also known, was about to be fired by President Mohamed Bazoum. He's been in charge since 2011 of the presidential guard.

And President Bazoum was about to appoint somebody of his own choosing, as he made changes to security sector.

CNN cannot independently verify that reporting. But a senior source loyal to President Bazoum tells CNN that General Tchiani declaring himself leader

has no change at all. He's still the democratically-elected President Bazoum that is. And that there are some disagreements within these coup

leaders. And they also fear that echo as the regional body, the Economic Community of West African States will issue some sanctions against them.

ECOWAS is a major summit on Niger coming up in the Nigerian capital, Abuja on Sunday.

Larry Madowo, CNN, Nairobi.

QUEST: That what's happening in the world today. The Emmys are not going to take place on schedule. They will take place at some point, but the strike

of Writers and Actors has causing its delay. We'll talk about it after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:39]

QUEST: The show must go on. Well, that is unless it's the Emmys which can't go on because of the strike by Writers and Actors because they can't

promote the things that they're doing. And you get the idea. It's why Chloe is with me to describe and tell me why. Why did they decide to cancel or

postpone the show?

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Because they cannot do the Emmy Awards without the Actors and the Writers. How are you going to do it? And

we saw the Tonys was able to cobble something together. But it's just not the same. Not to mention that Actors are not even able to talk about their

projects. So how are they even able to get up there on stage and do this?

This is incredibly significant, Richard, because this is the first time since September 11th that the Emmys have ever been postponed. So, we've

reached out to the Television Academy, they're not saying anything. We reached out to Fox that's supposed to air it. They're declining to comment.

QUEST: OK. Because they could still hang out awards, just by having somebody stand there and say, and the award goes to X, and the award goes

to Y.

MELAS: But that's not fun, right? So they're going to hold out, I think until they can do it the Emmy way. But when will that day come? We could

potentially see this go through the holidays. And that would be incredibly sad. Because why? Writers, Actors, everybody behind the scenes, the

directors, the producers, I mean, we're talking caterers, we're talking makeup artists. They're not going to be able to make ends meet some of them

and be able to even pay bills come very soon.

QUEST: This idea, the strike -- both strikes that are going on, it seems -- I can't work out. Is it hardening? Is it softening? Is it deepening? What's

happening?

MELAS: So, we have some information. So, the governor of California, Gavin Newsom, he has met with not only the studio heads. His office came out

yesterday and it was widely reported that he also met with the Writers Guild and SAG-AFTRA that represents the over 110,000 actors that are in

that union. And he says everybody is really far apart right now. What are they far apart on? What to do about artificial intelligence?

What to do about getting more pay? Residuals. In the age of streaming, everyone is upset that the numbers of how many people are watching these

streaming services are not being disclosed. So therefore, the Writers and the Actors say that they are not being paid enough, but then you have Bob

Iger coming out and saying, there's really not as much money in streaming as you think that there is.

QUEST: But if Gavin Newsom is saying that's still far apart, that suggests the strike goes a lot longer.

MELAS: It does. And it's costing, especially the California economy billions of dollars. So, what we could see is this go into mid fall or

longer. And then what does that mean, for people who are watching this right now at home? It means, what are you going to watch in the spring on

television? What happens to the films and the T.V. shows? And if there are some projects in the can already, you don't have any actors to go out and

be promoting this.

How long can you really watch reality TV for? And I like reality --

QUEST: So how long -- how long could this go on?

MELAS: I mean, inevitably, I think that people will come to some sort of an agreement. If I had to guests before the New Year, because it's going to be

really hard for people to make a living. And so, unfortunately, these studios can hold out pretty long. But these Actors in these Writers, unless

you're, you know, Meryl Streep or Tom Cruise, it makes it very difficult to put food on the table. And so, they are going to have to come to some sort

of an agreement.

QUEST: Are you --

MELAS: One that they're probably not going to be happy with.

QUEST: Did you really cause an earthquake?

MELAS: Taylor Swift did. So, I went to one of her shows in Seattle last weekend, and I was there. And I felt the ground move. I must admit, it was

an incredible show. And it was -- really, it was earthquake level. We've reported this on CNN.

QUEST: Yes.

MELAS: Yes. That the waves were actually recorded and it was bigger than even football games. So this was a, you know, the Swifties as they call

them, the Taylor Swift fans. They are loud and they made their presence known to Taylor Swift.

QUEST: Lovely. Thank you for coming back here. Isn't it a magnificent place?

MELAS: So incredible.

QUEST: Absolutely. Next week -- next week, we'll be down on the Jersey Shore. I'm going to Jersey, boy. Gang out of New York as we park down in

New Jersey. It's about an hour and a half from New York. And you can see on the map there, we will be at the beach. We'll be talking business to be

sure. And we will be learning all about Asbury Park and enjoying -- I mean, hopefully, it will be hot but not (INAUDIBLE) like today.

[15:55:06]

The Dow is headed for a third winning week. Look at the markets. I'll show you quickly briefly before we take a break. It's up about half a percent

with easing inflation. Intel is up more than six percent is on surprise. The good quarterly profits. So, although the Dow did not make its record

yesterday, we are going to have a strong finish at the end of the week. And we will have a profitable moment live here from the Guggenheim Museum.

The magnificence of the museum. It is a place where the building itself arguably, I could -- I get myself thrown out if I'm not careful. Arguably

the building is the biggest work of art. It's in the place. Sometimes I think some of the artists, it's a bit strange. But never mind. That's what

it's all about. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tonight's profitable moment for the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum. I'm rather old-fashioned sort of chap, I like my art with things in it. And

that's why I rather like the building itself here, which is so fascinating to look at in its own right. As for the art that's on display, I can

appreciate that different people can appreciate that it's hard. I find it a little more difficult. Maybe I need to come here more often to truly

understand what this modern art is all about.

Contemporary art, A.I., the role of A.I., the way indeed A.I. as we're seeing now, in industries such as arts, entertainment and movie making.

What we've hoped to show you tonight is at the forefront of arts and entertainment, there are real issues about how we move forward. What are

the differences? How do we avoid the mistakes of the past, like Stephanie was saying earlier to ensure the full inclusion of people as A.I. becomes

so much more prominent?

Because let's be clear about this. The days of popping off to a blockbuster Museum. Well, that's all very nice and good. But times are changing. And we

hope tonight summer Friday has shown you just how fast they can change. And even old fogies like me can change with them. And that's QUEST MEANS

BUSINESS for this Friday night. I'm Richard Quest at the Guggenheim Museum.

[16:00:03]

Whatever you're up to with the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. I'll see you next week. Have a good weekend.

END