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Quest Means Business

Pentagon Chief Discusses Gaza's Future With Israeli Leaders; Oil Prices Rise As BP Pauses Shipments Through Red Sea; Gaza Health Ministry: Nearly 19,500 Killed Since War Began; UK Introduces Carbon Levy In Wake Of COP28; New Yorkers Contend With Sky-High Rent Costs; Polls: Trump Holds Big Lead, Haley Gains Ground; Activist Link United States Nonprofit To Anti- LGBT Laws Across Africa. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired December 18, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:26]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: We start a new week together. The markets are open and doing business. New York has an hour left to trade,

and it's all pretty much, yes, but bringing (inaudible). But we are also heading towards holiday weeks, so things will get quieter.

The markets and the events that I'm following you for today. The Israel Hamas conflict is now spilling over to global shipping. BP, the latest to

avoid the Red Sea.

Nikki Haley is chipping away at Donald Trump's lead in New Hampshire, according to a new poll.

And higher interest rates. It's making life miserable for renters in New York City.

Live from New York, Monday, December the 18th, I'm Richard Quest and I mean business.

Good evening. The US defense secretary is in the Middle East, where he's been telling Israeli leaders they have a strategic imperative to protect

civilians in Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, US DEFENSE SECRETARY: Israelis and Palestinians both deserve a horizon of hope. So United States continues to believe, as we have under

administrations of both parties, that it is in the interest of both Israelis and Palestinians to move forward toward two states living side by

side in mutual security. Now we know how hard that is, especially after October 7th. But ongoing instability and insecurity only play into the

hands of Hamas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now, two-state solution in the future, but more immediately, the Pentagon chief is concerned about attacks in the Red Sea. And he'll be

speaking to regional defense ministers about attacks on shipping in the region.

BP has now become the latest company to pause ships through the area. It's all because of attacks by Houthi rebels in Yemen. The company's

announcement helped push up the price of oil.

Obviously, anything that restricts the supply of oil will push up that price. You can see we're at more than 2% on Brent.

Last week, Maersk became the first. It announced it was halting routes through the Red Sea until further notice.

Now, look at this map. Now, we're not sure, but we're pretty certain that the Maersk -- the Mary Maersk, which you can see on the left there, is one

of those affected because it's currently there, the 10-year-old 400-meter- long container ship. And it was going from Felixstowe to the UK. There's plenty more ships. We just chose that one at random.

Anna Stewart is in London. So whether it is the Mary Maersk or others, this route up through the Red Sea is crucial because of the reduction in time.

Explain, please.

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: This is a critical artery that accounts for around 30% of global container traffic. And I'll bring that map that you

just showed there, Richard, to show you where the problem area is right now with the Suez Canal. It's in the south area of the Red Sea, off the coast

of Yemen.

Bab-el-Mandeb, this is a strait here. This is where aerial attacks are being launched by Houthi militants on commercial ships.

Now, we know that US and UK naval warships have actually managed to shoot down some of these drones already. There have been no casualties at this

stage, but this has become incredibly risky, which is why some of the world's biggest shipping companies -- and you mentioned BP as well -- have

decided for now to hit pause on doing this route.

But therein lies a problem. That is not a decision you take lightly. This is a critical route linking Europe and Asia, and the other way around is

much more costly. Let's show you the other way around, which is the West Coast of Africa around the Cape of Good Hope.

And I've got an example for you here, Richard. This is a ship going from Rotterdam to Singapore.

Now, the difference between the route is about 40% longer to go around the Cape of Good Hope. That means a lot more fuel. But also, the fact of the

matter is that ship is going to arrive a week or maybe nine days late to its destination. That impacts the next shipment.

Before you know it, you can have containers stacking up at ports. And, of course, that upsets supply chain very quickly. So the big question is, how

long will it take to try and secure this route so these shipping companies can get back to going through the Suez Canal?

[15:05:06]

QUEST: Go back to your earlier map because I want -- if we can, because I just want to question -- there we are -- where are the attacks coming from?

Now, I keep reading, it's about Houthi-controlled areas in Yemen, which I imagine sort of down -- a bit on the right there.

STEWART: You're looking around here, this is Bab-el-Mandeb. This is a strait off the coast of Yemen. It's also known, Richard, as the Gate of

Grief. It's a very difficult area to navigate.

There are frequently security issues around this region, but this is where the real crunch point is at the moment for these ships, which is why they,

frankly, can't use the Suez Canal because the only way out, of course, is through that strait.

QUEST: Fascinating. Anna, grateful for that.

Neil Roberts is with me, the head of Marine and Aviation at Lloyd's Market Association. I hope you're listening. I think you probably could hear Anna

Stewart talking there. I mean, when the situation is thought like that, there really is no other choice, is there? You have to take, quote, "the

long way around."

NEIL ROBERTS, HEAD OF MARINE AND AVIATION AT LLOYD'S MARKET ASSOCIATION: Certainly, owners will be looking to secure their crews and their vessels.

It certainly is a long way around and some haven't made an announcement, but the big ones have already diverted. So it will add cost to the supply

chain because time equals money.

The fuel aspect is less of an issue because they're at sea most of the time anyway, but it will affect the individual charters at this point on, too.

So yes, it has an effect.

But as you say, if you're being attacked, you have no choice. And the taking of the Galaxy Leader in November was a game-changer for security

teams because they're simply not in the manual as a security.

We're not prepared for helicopter assault. We can't do very much about drones. We can't do anything about missiles. So at the very most, the

prudent cause for many owners would seem to be diverting for now.

QUEST: So, I don't think you can see it at home, but the map that we are showing, which shows the area where the attacks are coming from, which is

the Houthi area of Yemen, I mean, it's almost impossible to secure that from missiles, drones or whatever else might come from that way. From

Lloyd's point of view, what do you do?

ROBERTS: Well, we support the (inaudible) on what they do. I mean, we're there to support world trade and supply chains.

QUEST: Right.

ROBERTS: And (inaudible) to write the risk that they're presented with. I mean, obviously, as the risk goes up, so (inaudible) the risk and price

will change. But it's about the crew and whether they feel secure enough to continue. It's about the owners and whether they feel confident enough that

their cargo will arrive undamaged.

But, of course, at base, whilst you can divert and, you know, you say 12% also of trade goes through the Suez, it means 88% goes elsewhere. But there

is the trade that has to go to Israel. And without it, the country will be in deep trouble.

QUEST: What were you just telling me about -- Anna Stewart said up to 30% of world trade would take that total Red Sea route. Now, even if that

number is on the high side, we saw post-pandemic the issues of supply chain disruption. And are we looking at supply chain disruption or be it not on

the same scale?

ROBERTS: I think we're looking at temporary adjustments. We saw with the (inaudible) Suez Canal, there was a one-week blip and then it can go back

to relatively normal trading. And don't forget that, I mean, Six-Day War after that the Suez Canal was closed for seven years and world trade

managed because we have more globalization than ever. And it would be something that has to be managed through.

And -- because we have a just-in-time economy, where everything is at sea and nothing is stored, we'll have temporary adjustments where there simply

won't be things in the right place. And people will be short on supplies, and it will apply to food, manufacturing, and luxury goods as well.

QUEST: Grateful for you, sir. Neil Roberts, we'll talk more as this continues. Thank you for your time tonight. Thank you.

ROBERTS: Thank you.

QUEST: The Hamas-run health ministry says more than 150 people were killed over a few hours today, most of them were in Jabalya. It also claims dozens

of people taking shelter at the Al-Shifa Hospital have been killed.

The CIA Director Bill Burns is in Poland, where he's meeting with officials from Israel and Qatar to discuss a potential new hostage deal. CNN's Will

Ripley tonight in Tel Aviv.

[15:10:14]

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Richard. Nearly 20,000 people killed, a staggering death toll by any measure, certainly, when you look at modern

warfare. What is happening in Gaza right now has horrified much of the world. And yet, I can tell you, here on the ground in Israel, there is

palpable frustration because they feel here as if, starting on October 7th, when unarmed young people at a music festival and hundreds of others were

killed, murdered, some kidnapped, 129 of which remain in Gaza.

They say they're fighting a war not against the civilians of Gaza -- the people of Gaza, but against Hamas, a terrorist organization that Israel

says is using civilians as human shields. And they point to evidence of these tunnels that they're discovering, this underground labyrinth under

Gaza, including, you know, showing video, which they claim to be a child's bedroom where they lift up the child sleeping cot. And there's a tunnel

entrance hidden underneath.

They say that ordinary people's homes are being used by Hamas. People themselves are being used, and abused, and exploited by Hamas. And, so yes,

they acknowledge that the numbers are sky-high.

They certainly are aware of the growing outcry from around the world and the growing international pressure from allies of Israel and even from the

United States, behind closed doors, to adjust the tactics in Gaza to a more surgical type of strike. But that surgical strike still means that they

need to root out the leadership of Hamas, who are very well-hidden despite Israeli efforts to destroy these tunnels that they're using to smuggle in

supplies, to launch attacks, even to house their command centers, Richard, pointing to the discovery of one tunnel recently, two and a half miles

long, with a makeshift train and enough room for large vehicles inside. They say they're doing the best they can, but certainly there's a lot

happening.

We saw the smoke plume rising, Richard.

QUEST: All right, all right.

RIPLEY: We are a few kilometers from the border, Richard.

QUEST: But will the argument remains that if you cannot -- if you cannot deal with these threats without mass civilian casualties, then you just

can't deal with them. You have to find some other way.

Now, Israel's response, of course, is, you know you can do with that, we're going to deal with the threat. But that's the conundrum Israel faces, and

it's the same one it's faced from day one.

RIPLEY: You're absolutely right. And you -- you know, on the ground, we visited the site of the Nova Music Festival earlier today. We spoke with a

young woman who is there as people that she knew friends of hers were massacred around her as she ran for four hours for her life, and only was

saved when a regular Israeli citizen in a pickup truck picked up her and her friends and drove them to safety.

From her perspective, as a woman who lives in the United States, she finds it difficult to grasp the global horror and the anger towards Israel

considering that she was at the center of this horrific attack. She and her friends and her country of Israel -- she's is an Israeli-American -- she

feels that they are truly the victims here.

But you cannot ignore the scenes from Gaza, the number of civilians killed in Gaza, these horrifying images, Richard, of people so desperate to fight

over the scraps of supplies that they're climbing onto the aid trucks. The reality is, this is a cycle of history that is repeated itself over and

over again.

And each and every time -- and particularly this time -- it is sad, it is tragic, and it would have been preventable. And yet the solution seems to

elude even today Israel's grasp, Palestinians grasp. You know, and you just have all of these innocent people caught right in the middle of it.

QUEST: Will Ripley in Tel Aviv tonight. Will, I'm grateful.

However much you pay in rent, you'll get a nasty shock in a minute. We talk about New York rents. Well, there's a bit of relief.

Rent in the city fell on an annual basis for the first time in two years. The median rent is now $4,000 a month -- yeah, $4,000. I'll talk to the CEO

of Douglas Elliman, in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:07]

QUEST: The UK says it's introducing a carbon levy on some imports that will begin in 2027. It's part of the effort showing countries are pushing ahead

with their climate efforts despite contentious talks last week at COP28 in Dubai.

So let me remind you what did come out of it. A fund was established. The countries hit by climate change. There were many nations that pledged to

triple renewable energy by the end of the decade. A major oil company has agreed to clean up their operations.

Rich Lesser is the global chair at the Boston Consulting Group. COP28 was a major milestone, he says. Rich, how do you justify that as a major

milestone?

RICH LESSER, GLOBAL CHAIR, BOSTON CONSULTING GROUP: I think we -- first of all, let's acknowledge we've gone 27 COPs prior to this one and never have

been able to talk about fossil fuels, never really had a holistic agenda for how we were going to manage through an energy transition, never really

had as compelling an action agenda.

In this COP, you mentioned loss and damage. There was big progress on food and agriculture, on renewables, on methane leaks, on heavy industry, and an

overall agreement at the end that exceeded all of the incoming expectations in terms of being able to identify the levers that we needed to pull to

manage an energy transition and call on companies and countries to do it.

QUEST: Right.

LESSER: Did it go far enough? No, but frankly (inaudible) .

QUEST: You see, but that's the problem.

LESSER: . 27.

QUEST: But that's the problem, Rich. As we go through each COP and we then failed to reach each target, I agree with you, things are getting better,

but they're not getting better or worse fast enough.

LESSER: Agree, completely agree. We're growing emissions having nothing to do with the COP. We're growing emissions 1.5% right now when we need to be

shrinking them 7%.

We are way, way off track on the speed of the transition. So -- and so what we need to do is speed up, and we need to speed up on a whole range of

fronts. And we need to deal with adaptation because, however fast we speed up, a lot of parts of the world are going to be negatively impacted. So

there's a ton of work to do.

And even if this COP is a success, that only sets the stage for what we really need, which is a ton of action on many different fronts.

QUEST: So let's divide this into two or three different buckets because one thing I do know about climate change in COP is it becomes almost impossible

when you're dealing with everything at once. The money .

LESSER: Exactly.

QUEST: . is there enough money through leverage, through PPP, through green bonds, through IMF, World Bank and every other multi, is there physically

enough money available to do this?

[15:20:09]

LESSER: You can argue there's enough money in theory that people have said they're ready to put against it. But much of that money requires returns

that match the risks associated with the projects. The phrase of the industry are bankable projects.

There's not enough good projects to be able to attract that funding, which is why we need other kinds of capital, whether it's the world bank or the

IMF or concessionary capital or other things that can help de-risk some of those projects to bring in a lot more private capital. And this COP was a

start on that journey but, boy, we have a long way to go -- a long way.

QUEST: I mean, this -- you know, what you've basically said is that you can't bring your clients in to many of those deals unless there's a super

lender willing to standby.

LESSER: Yes. I mean, I think that's what the bank say, that's what a lot of the asset managers say. That's why they're calling on the World Bank and

the IMF. That's why they were .

QUEST: Right.

LESSER: . excited by the agreement that was announced by the COP presidency to put this $30 billion fund with a $5 billion of concessionary capital

there, which is that special layer that can then bring other capital in.

There was a lot of enthusiasm for the announcements at this COP. But, to be clear, that's -- if you started by saying, is there enough yet, no, there's

not enough. But this was a good milestone on the .

QUEST: All right.

LESSER: . way to bringing a lot more.

QUEST: So, finally, Rich, this battle or disagreement, whatever you want to call it, between phasing out fossil fuels and whatever they finally agreed,

did it all feel a bit surreal? They're arguing the semantics and passing the words when, at the end of the day, we know it means getting rid of

fossil fuels eventually.

LESSER: We need to get rid of the emissions of fossil fuels fully. In fact, we need to go beyond that to bring carbon back into the ground at some

number of decades down the road.

The technologies to do that are still what's up in the air because many of them are not at the cost they need to be. This COP was powerful and that it

acknowledged it, and it outlined many of the pathways, but it was not specific enough. And it was a call on countries to do it. It wasn't

countries committing all to do it.

That's what we need to see in this next round of national commitments is bolder commitments, more aggressive action, more money going into driving

this decarbonization. And also, opening up massive economic opportunities to build new businesses, to create new kinds of jobs. I mean, that's the

other side of this.

QUEST: We'll talk about those as they happen. Rich Lesser, I mean, I wish you a good Christmas and a happy New Year.

New Yorkers may finally be getting some relief as rents have gone sky-high. The median rent in New York -- Manhattan actually -- fell last month year-

on-year, thanks to a supply of vacant apartments. This is very unusual.

For example, the number of vacant apartments hasn't gone down in more than two years. Many of the people who work on this show live in New York. And

we sort of quietly asked them anonymously, tell us how much you pay in rent.

On average, the QMB staff pays $1,200 in rent or at least their share in, because many of them will, of course, be sharing apartments with two or

three other people -- $1,200 a month in rent.

I talked to the CEO of Douglas Elliman about what makes housing costs soar.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST (voice over): In the city with the tallest buildings in the country, the rent is sky-high.

SCOTT DURKIN, CEO, DOUGLAS ELLIMAN: Oh, boy, I think the studio now with a door -- full-service building is probably about $3,400 for one room. And it

goes up from there.

QUEST (voice over): Despite pressures from the pandemic and those still working from home, affording an apartment keeps on getting more difficult.

And the CEO of Douglas Elliman, Scott Durkin, says it's not just in New York.

DURKIN: We have 128 offices. It's everywhere -- every region we cover. And our average price is $1.6 million at Douglas Elliman. It's everywhere in

every one of our markets.

QUEST (voice over): The firm's rent index is now down slightly from record highs over the summer. That's welcome for the Federal Reserve, which has

hiked interest rates, specifically, to slow down rising prices. Higher shelter costs, as the economists call them, have been one of the major

contributors to inflation over the past year. And Durkin says it won't be a fast fall.

[15:25:04]

QUEST (on camera): Are prices coming down in New York?

DURKIN: Well, usually they do when this happens. However, coupled with the inventory shortage, prices have stayed level. And we see very little

negotiation.

QUEST (on camera): Is it because interest rates at 7% now have put off prospective buyers or people who want to trade up?

DURKIN: Absolutely. Even though you may want something else, you're not moving because it just doesn't make any sense.

QUEST (on camera): So, what happens? Because clearly, the discrepancy between the rents and incomes in New York is now almost at its widest.

DURKIN: Yes.

QUEST: So what happened?

DURKIN: Well, people do shares. They get roommates. They get married, you know, two incomes. Somehow, they make ends meet or they downsize, and they

can live in a studio.

QUEST (voice over): Peter Fisher knows this all too well. He lives on the fifth floor in a building in New York City's West Village. He pays $4,100 a

month for a 400-square-foot apartment. The building has no elevator.

PETER FISHER, NYC RENTER: This is the apartment. You can see it's pretty much just one room, and then the bedroom. So this is the living room, the

dining area and kitchen. I usually just kind of, like, eat on the couch.

QUEST (voice over): And Peter says finding a new place could be even more expensive.

FISCER: The market moves really quickly here. And because moving apartments is expensive, it's time consuming, and it's pretty competitive. So, I've

just stuck in this one apartment for several years because, usually, you go outside and you can tour an apartment, and there's, you know, 20 people

lined up around the block and maybe somebody already has a deposit down. So, it's pretty difficult to find a spot unless you really have your ducks

in a row and you're willing to dump a lot of cash.

QUEST (voice over): Housing inflation is one of the slowest components to change, therefore, one of the most difficult to fight. Now, other companies

and researchers say inflation is likely to come down in the coming year. The hope, of course, is it won't take the economy down with it as it falls.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: $4,000 for that. New polling shows Nikki Haley is gaining steam in New Hampshire, in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:31:11]

QUEST: Just about one month left for Republican candidates to gain ground against Donald Trump in Iowa and New Hampshire. And the numbers, the latest

polls, show Nikki Haley chipping away.

New Hampshire holds its primary election on January the 23rd -- about a week after the Iowa caucuses. So, what happens there will be a bellwether

for the rest of the nation.

Harry Enten joins me from New York.

First question, which, I think, regardless of how she does, Harry, can she get enough to beat him? Trump in these?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I think, you know, in New Hampshire, she definitely can. I mean, if you look at the trendline there, CBS

News/YouGov, you compare where she was in September. She was nearly 40 points and back of Donald Trump, look at where she is now. She is just 15

points and back of Donald Trump.

And I will note that, that 29 percent that she pulled in that poll is the highest for any non-Trump candidate anywhere: New Hampshire, Iowa,

National, since all the way back in June.

And the other thing I will point out here, Richard, is that 10 percent that Chris Christie has, that's important because his -- the people who choose

him as number one, their second-choice candidate, overwhelmingly they say that Nikki Haley is their -- is their second-choice candidate.

And because of that, if you put together say those folks that Chris Christie might have, if he decides to drop out of the race with her 29

percent, then, you got a real race going on in the state of New Hampshire.

QUEST: OK. But, is it a vote for Nikki Haley, or is it a vote against Donald Trump? Or is that just academic?

ENTEN: It might be a little bit academic, but you know, I have a college degree, Richard. So, I like doing a few academic things in my time.

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: (INAUDIBLE).

ENTEN: Look, I know, right?

QUEST: No.

ENTEN: But here is the deal. If you look in the state of New Hampshire --

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: Yes.

ENTEN: -- who are the voters that Nikki Haley does best amongst? Its moderates. All right? Moderates who also Donald Trump does worst amongst.

And in New Hampshire, they make up a much larger share of the vote there than they do in either Iowa or National. They make up nearly two-fifths of

the vote there as compared to National, when they make up only 27 percent in Iowa, where they only make up 17 percent.

So, these moderates have sort of been deciding, do I want to do Chris Christie? Do I want to do Nikki Haley? Right now, that vote -- that group

of voters is saying, we want to go with Nikki Haley.

So, I guess to answer your sort of academic question, it's more anti-Trump than pro-Haley. But the fact that Nikki Haley needs any voters she can get.

QUEST: Oh, now, finally, assuming she doesn't get it, and Donald Trump does become the presumptive nominee. And you were a betting man. What would you

say would be the likelihood of Nikki Haley being the V.P.?

ENTEN: Oh, good question. You know, that is something that, you know, it's one man's decision, and I've never quite figured out what's going on in

Donald Trump's head.

But I will say this, if you were to choose Nikki Haley, it could unite the Republican Party, and she has been very careful -- very careful not to come

out as to anti-Trump during this campaign. Unlike Chris Christie, she's tried to sort of tow that line, and maybe part of the reason she is trying

to tow that line beyond just trying to do well in the primaries. Maybe she's looking ahead to the general election and say, you know, what, if I

can become his V.P. and I have a stronger than expected finish in these Republican primaries, and maybe come 2028, I might be the presumptive

Republican nominee myself.

QUEST: 2028 already. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Good to see you.

ENTEN: Shalom.

QUEST: After Uganda passed what is arguably the world's harshest anti-gay law in May, even allowing for the death penalty in certain circumstances.

It has driven people to flee for their lives. For many months now. We have been investigating whether that Ugandan law came about, because of, and

with the help of an American nonprofit.

[15:35:08]

CNN's David McKenzie, has this exclusive report from Kenya.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): We are in Nairobi, tracking the impact of hate.

MCKENZIE: So, we're heading to a safe house that has been arranged for Ugandans that have fled Uganda, into Kenya, trying to get asylum.

MCKENZIE (voice over): We are shielding their location, hiding their identity for their safety.

MCKENZIE: Oh, how are you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm fine.

MCKENZIE: Thank you for having us.

MCKENZIE (voice over): No one is sure how many had fled, but the numbers have surged. In safe houses like this, their wounds are still fresh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He felt like if he can cut me into pieces, it would be better.

MCKENZIE (voice over): Adrian's own father tried to kill him, he says, for being gay.

ADRIAN, ASYLUM SEEKER: These are knives, he stabbed me.

In Uganda, when they kill someone in the LGBT community, it's not a big deal.

SYLVIA, ASYLUM SEEKER: My mom came herself and she told me, you know what, you're not welcome here. You are not part of our family.

MCKENZIE (voice over): Betrayed by their families, pursued by the police. They fled into Kenya on foot or by bus, often in the dead of night. Now,

they are afraid to go out. They keep the curtains shut from prying eyes.

Since 2021, politicians have pushed a new generation of disturbing homophobic bills in Uganda, Ghana, and Kenya. Some even calling for hefty

jail terms, including life in prison for same sex relationships, and identifying as queer, all of them to protect so called family values.

For months, CNN has been investigating the influence of American charity, Family Watch International, headed by this woman, Sharon Slater.

For years, the organization has been advocating across Africa for family values, and against educating young people about LGBT issues and sexual

health.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That this is Africa and what it takes to be close to just stand next to the president of an African country in Africa, it means

it's not random.

MCKENZIE (voice over): The president is Yoweri Museveni of Uganda at a sex education conference in Entebbe in April. The conference included

politicians pushing the homophobic laws.

This opposition researcher has tracked Slater's organization for years. We agreed to conceal his identity to protect the ongoing work.

ALI, RESEARCHER: She presents herself as an expert, she presents herself as a consultant.

MCKENZIE: A source with direct knowledge of their involvement says they were much more instrumental than just consulting.

The source says, a Family Watch International representative made repeated changes to draft versions of the homophobic bill, together with members of

parliament, even suggesting clauses that should be added to the text.

A CNN producer found Sharon Slater at the United Nations in New York.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sharon Slater, there are allegations that Family Watch International is pushing homophobic laws in Africa.

(CROSSTALK)

SHARON SLATER, FOUNDER, FAMILY WATCH INTERNATIONAL: I'm sorry. I'm cut --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you have to say in response to that?

SLATER: It's absurd. Totally, totally absurd. I've got documents I can send you later to show that I have not been involved in any of those laws.

Period. It's just absurd.

MCKENZIE: Family Watch International provided this document to CNN. An extraordinary endorsement of Slater's work by President Museveni. He says

she played no part in "originating, canvassing, or supporting the law. Instead, suggesting a safe haven for homosexuals."

The final law allows for the rehabilitation of offenders, including widely discredited conversion therapy.

TOBIAS NAURUKI, REPRESENTATIVE, EMPOWERED YOUTH COALITION: Gay people and lesbian people are human beings like me.

MCKENZIE: We tracked down a youth leader in Nairobi with close ties to Family Watch International.

NAURUKI: I will not be happy for them to be punished. But what I would recommend is to respect and uphold those laws.

MCKENZIE (voice over): Family Watch International said he is not authorized to speak for the organization.

MCKENZIE So, you are you happy with these laws being pushed is what you are saying?

NAURUKI: Yes, I'm happy for the laws being pushed. I've seen people who are fearing for their lives on this continent because of these laws, that there

are very minor cases.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (text): Museveni banned gay, men!

MCKENZIE (voice over): The awful reality is this. CNN has tracked a severe spike in abuse of LGBTQ Africans.

Often put on social media, often too graphic to show. It's an epidemic of hate inspired by the laws. In Kenya, human rights groups say that attacks

on the community have at least doubled in the last two years, with more than a thousand incidents up until August.

The proposed law here is the most sweeping yet.

PETER KALUMA, KENYAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: When you engage in this as acts of LGBT, which are prohibited in Kenya, you become a criminal.

[15:40:07]

MCKENZIE (voice over): The M.P.'s sponsoring the bill has Sharon Slater's book on family values on his shelf.

MCKENZIE: Family watch International is not specifically helping with the drafting of this bills.

KALUMA: No, no, they can't. That would be to say, I don't have my own brain.

MCKENZIE (voice over): In the safe house, as the hate spreads, they fear their space is running out.

ADRIAN: I feel at any point, I'm left nowhere to go.

If I go outside there, they will notice that I am.

LGBTI, sooner or later I'll be dead.

MCKENZIE (voice over): DAVID McKenzie, CNN, Nairobi, Kenya.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Now, just in case, there was any of you watching that is in any doubt, or hasn't seen or didn't know. I am, of course, gay, LGBT.

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, I'll have the top of the hour dash for the closing bell, because hopefully, you're more worried or more interested in

what I'm going to tell you about markets investments, and how you can make a bit of money and then, sexuality. Anyway.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:58:52]

QUEST: Almost the top of the hour, I'm Richard Quest together, we're going to have a dash to the closing bell. You've got 90 seconds.

Apple shares are down. Apple says it will stop selling some watches in the U.S. It's in a blatant dispute over how the smart watches, measure blood

oxygen levels.

And there's a big board, chopping, I think is the best way to describe it. But we are going to eke out again unless those last few trades take over.

And then take us out below just about even Stephens on the Dow.

Turn a triple stack. More impressive performance by tech and the broader market. And the Dow itself, your Dow 30, those are the components. You got

P&G at the top. Chevron is up slightly on higher earnings, although it follows the attacks on shipping in the Red Sea.

And right at the other end, you have Boeing down 1-1/2 percent along with Goldman.

But it's a fairly even stevens sort of market, which just really tells you about the market meeting at this particular point. Don't forget, it's going

to be a quiet week. Christmas is around the corner New Year short -- shortly after that. That's the dash to the closing bell.

I'm Richard Quest. Whatever you're up in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable.

END