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Quest Means Business

Jury Asks To Be Read Testimony From Pecker And Michael Cohen; Vote Counting Underway After Wednesday's Pivotal South African Election; Israeli Tanks Seen Advancing Further West Into Rafah; Trump Jury Ends Deliberations For The Day; Homeowners See Cost Of Insurance Jump. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 29, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:36]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: The trading day has finished, and look at that. You don't often see the level of -- it is not a huge amount

of selling, but the market was down at the open and it never recovered, it didn't even show signs of wanting to recover. That big red block tells us

quite a bit about the markets, but we must look elsewhere in our day and the markets the main events.

The jury in Donald Trump's hush money trial are asking to hear back four key sections of evidence.

South Africans have voted in the biggest test of the ANC's power in three decades.

And one of Britain's oldest institutions may have a new foreign owner, the Royal Mail accepts an offer from a Czech billionaire.

Busy hour together, let's make sure we get to the other side. Live from New York. It is Wednesday, May the 29th. I am Richard Quest, and as always,

with you, I mean business.

Good evening. Donald Trump's fate is now in the hands of the jury. The 12 men and women have been deliberating for more than four hours. A short

while ago, they asked to have parts of the testimony read back to them.

The testimony included what David Pecker and Michael Cohen said about a meeting at Trump Tower, two key evidence.

When he gave their jury instructions, Judge Juan Merchan reminded them speculation was not enough. The prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable

doubt every element of the crime.

Jim Sciutto, is with me. We will get to the request for that Pecker testimony, we are hearing why they might be focusing, but give me a feel

for the morning and how it was. You had the two summations, the judge's instructions and then jury go and do your work.

JIM SCIUTTO CNN ANCHOR: Listen, this is a consequential moment. For four hours and 34 minutes, as you can see on the clock there, a jury has been

considering the guilt or innocence on multiple felony counts of a former president for the first time, and of course, a current candidate for

president. They have weighty decisions before them on these counts.

This morning, you had about 90 minutes of jury instructions which are quite crucial to this case because while the general story of the case alleged

payments to pay off someone so a story doesn't come out during election that might damage the president, while that is relatively simple to

understand, that allegation -- the law behind it and particularly the law as it relates to elevating this from a misdemeanor to a felony is more

complicated.

And we should note, a second note sent by the jurors to the judge, which as we understand it is asking for those jury instructions to be read back to

them.

So Richard, it is quite clear at this point that this jury on their first day deliberations, four hours in, is quite hard at work here. They've sent

their second note, this one about jury instructions. Their prior note, as you noted, related to specific testimony which we can get into greater

detail and I see Elie Honig is joining me now.

I will always defer to attorney, but just in summary, that earlier note related to specific testimony --

QUEST: Right.

SCIUTTO: -- including from David Pecker and others about among other things, a Trump Tower meeting which prosecutors allege was the big plan, we

are going to kill stories that might damage Trump in this election plan. That's the prosecutors allegation.

QUEST: Elie, this meeting, these talks in the White House, they go to the gravamen of the matter, don't they? In a sense, in that meeting was

information being given that showed Donald Trump knew.

So what do you make of this request?

[16:05:01]

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So Richard, we now have two notes from the jury, and this is really interesting. The first note came out a

little bit after three o'clock Eastern Time and the jury asked for four specific pieces of testimony from David Pecker and from Michael Cohen.

Now those requests go to a meeting that happened two of the four requests go to a meeting that happened in August 2015th in Trump Tower.

QUEST: Right.

HONIG: This is when Donald Trump is a couple of months after he has announced his candidacy for president in 2016 and this is the meeting that

the DA described as the eyes and ears meeting.

This is where David Pecker, who ran the "National Enquirer" basically meets in-person with Michael Cohen, with Donald Trump, maybe with Hope Hicks,

that part of the testimony was unclear and the agreement is, you all are going to use the "National Enquirer" to try to help Donald Trump

politically.

You're going to put out stories that smear his opponents, you're going to put out stories that are positive for him. And the DA tried to asked this

meeting as sort of chapter one in the story, if you take it chronologically.

QUEST: So why would they want to hear this bit and then compare it to the other bit?

HONIG: Because the DA told the jury this is where the whole scheme starts. This is the first time they've gotten together, meaning Trump, Cohen, and

David Pecker and decided we are going to use the "National Enquirer" and we are going to use its power and its reach to try to help Donald Trump in the

election. He has just announced his candidacy two months before this.

So this is chapter one according to the prosecutors, but I have to talk about what just happened because this is something I have been trying cases

and covering cases for a long time. I have never seen this before.

The jury just sent a second note a little bit before four o'clock saying, we want to hear the legal instructions all over again.

Now, this morning, the judge read the jury the standard legal instructions. It is about a 50-page long document. It took an hour and change. It often

happens that a jury will come back and say, hey, Judge, we'd like to hear a certain part of the jury instruction. Can you please give us the part again

about campaign law? Can you give us the part again about how we assess witness credibility?

The jury's note just said, we want the whole thing again.

QUEST: What?

HONIG: I've never seen that happen.

QUEST: Why don't they just give them a copy of it?

HONIG: That is a perfectly logical, rational question, Richard, that any human being would ask. The answer is there is no good reason. It is

ridiculous.

QUEST: Right.

HONIG: It is old-fashioned. They are intentionally making life difficult for themselves. And by the way, for broader perspective, I think it is safe

to say, the majority, probably the vast majority of judges do send back the written document because how on Earth does any human being going to absorb

50 pages of legal instructions just by listening and taking notes? These are regular people. Two of them happened to be lawyers, but these are just

normal human beings.

And what I think the judge will do and it looks like the judge is doing now is going back to the jury saying, hey, are there specific portions of this

you might be interested in or do you really mean the whole thing?

QUEST: Jim, there is an element -- I mean, look, it is a crucial part of democracy that is now taking place.

SCIUTTO: No question.

QUEST: But the danger is it turns into circus.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, I mean, you could make that allegation against about any high profile legal case, right? And the point here is to try to keep it

on the law.

I think I have it right that the jury is leaving the courtroom as I follow our updates here. The judge says deliberations will start again at 9:30

tomorrow morning.

Does that mean Elie that tomorrow morning, the judge reads them the instructions again, as opposed to today?

HONIG: Yes, so that's essentially what it means, Jim.

So two things are happening right now. They are trying to respond, first of all, to the first note where the jury said we want these four specific

pieces of testimony. The lawyers are going to go through the transcript. There is going to -- this is going to be dozens and dozens of pages.

And so what they do is they will take advantage now of the fact that the jury has gone home for the day. The lawyers can now figure this out.

When the jury comes in tomorrow, the first thing that I think will happen is the judge will say, okay, your first note asked for four pieces of

testimony. Now, we are going to read it back to you. That is going to take, I don't know, an hour.

What happens is usually the court reporter, the person who to takes a little stenography will just read it. She will say -- he or she will say,

question, what happened at that meeting? Answer. Well, we all sat around a table.

Then the judge is either going to reread the entire jury instruction, which again took over an hour today or the judge is going to sort of reassert his

question about, are there some specific parts that you want, not the whole thing?

QUEST: I have one final question for you, Elie. Is it normal? Usual? I mean, it is not unusual for the jury to look to him or -- but is it usual

for juries to send back a note so quickly? Don't they normally get a bit deeper into the weeds before they start asking for bits of testimony back?

HONIG: So this part of it is not unusual, Richard. They were about three- and-a-half hours in when they first sent their first note. I've seen notes come out within the first half-hour before. I have also seen juries go two,

three days at a stretch of radio silence.

So I don't read anything at all into the timing of it. To me, the timing is pretty darn normal, but again, the first request was very routine, very

substantive, very focused, sort of what you want to see if you're a lawyer on the case, especially the prosecution.

[16:10:11]

The second note was a little bit of an "oh, my goodness, do they really mean this" type moment.

QUEST: Gentlemen, thank you.

There is going to be so much more. I was going to ask how long do you think they are going to be out for? But this is, Jim, I mean, we are not taking

bets, but do you have -- what -- five days? Seven days? Two weeks?

SCIUTTO: I've never tried to case. I do know when I ask lawyers that sometimes weekends can drive this schedule for juries.

QUEST: Right.

SCIUTTO: But, you know, I'd leave that one to Elie.

QUEST: And Elie --

HONIG: Well, let me just say this, Richard, I have seen juries come back in an hour. I have seen juries come back in two full weeks of deliberation.

QUEST: Right.

HONIG: So there is your range. How about that?

QUEST: All right, but Elie --

HONIG: Yes.

QUEST: What do you do during that time besides maybe answer a few e-mails? Do you pace the halls trying to look calm? Do you --

HONIG: Listen, I am going to let you in on a little secret. When you're a prosecutor, you can't focus on anything else. We used to watch movies with

our paralegals. One of them reminded me the other day that we watched "Good Fellas" while we were waiting one day.

So you just while away the time.

QUEST: Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

QUEST: Now the polls have closed in South Africa. The exit polls are illegal in the country, so I can't give you any idea as to what the results

might be until they are officially announced this weekend.

The ruling ANC Party has been in power since 1994. Now, it appears more vulnerable than ever.

Voting was brisk across the country as other parties and the ANC fails to get a grip on blackouts, unemployment, and crime.

CNN's David McKenzie spoke to a couple of the 28 million South Africans who had registered to vote.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They have been waiting here since before dawn in one of the busiest polling stations in downtown

Johannesburg. You can hear the noise behind me. There is some level of frustration of how long this is taking.

This is arguably the most important vote in South Africa since the dawn of democracy, some 30 years ago. And this man, Cyril Ramaphosa faces enormous

pressure to get his ANC in power, to reach that threshold of over 50 percent because the census amongst voters I am speaking to, at least here,

is that it is time for a change.

What do you want to happen politically now because of this vote?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Politically, I think anything that would boost the economy so that inflation can come down a little bit, that would be really

helpful. Then the rest we can take care of it.

MCKENZIE: Some of your friends don't want to vote today, you told me. Why do you think that is?

ROSELYN TSWAKAE, SOUTH AFRICAN VOTER: They are seeing what is happening and they don't like it, so they are thinking nothing is going to change at all,

but then, I don't believe that. So that's why I came and voted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it is not my first time. It is not my second, it is not my third time. I've been voting since, but no change. We don't see

any change.

MCKENZIE: Like they're saying, unemployment, levels of crime and inequality are some of the big topics here in South Africa during this election. Many

feel that the promise of the ANC has been unkept.

If you look down here, you see how far this line is stretching all the way down to the end of this park in downtown Jo-burg.

It must be said, this area is a stronghold of a opposition groups. Out in rural areas and also amongst older South Africans, the ANC does still have

a significant amount of pull. The question is when the voting is done and when the votes are counted, will the ruling ANC be able to hang on to that

majority?

David McKenzie, CNN, Johannesburg.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: There are three likely outcomes from this election. The first: The status quo. The ANC could win an outright majority and it would maintain

its 30-year hold on power. The second and what many people think is the likely, the ANC narrowly loses its majority and thus has to make a power-

sharing agreement with a smaller party of which there are several. Finally, and arguably, the least likely, a group of smaller parties form a ruling

coalition without the ANC, and then you've got the personalities involved that could play into a coalition.

The former President Jacob Zuma, and his MK Party. So Songezo Zibi and his Rise Mzansi Party is going after the youth vote, and there is always Julius

Malema of the Marxist, EFF, who is always involved in one way or another.

The head of the largest official party, that's the DA, the Democratic Alliance, John Steenhuisen told me last year how he is taking advantage of

the ANC's shortcomings.

[16:15:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN STEENHUISEN, DEMOCRATIC ALLIANCE: We have been able to capitalize on it particularly as people are starting to realize that this government

doesn't have a plan to get out of the mess and also how they look to DA governments who are climbing the ladder towards more energy security and

being able to shield residents from the failures at the national level.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Daryl Glaser, professor at Witwatersrand University is with me from Johannesburg.

This is a run business. We have no exit polls. People like me are groping in the dark, trying to work out what the result might be. What's the latest

thinking?

DARYL GLASER, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF THE WITWATERSRAND: Well, I think the latest thinking is basically where it has been for a while. We are still

speculating. There appears to be a brisk turnout. We are trying to figure out what that means. And essentially, we are still in the situation where

the opinion polls are predicting all of them that the ANC is going to fall short of an absolute majority and this is going to take South Africa into

new territory because we are very likely are going to be experiencing our first coalition government at national level.

QUEST: So who is the most likely partner for the ANC? Bearing in mind depending on how many seats they need and how many the other bodies have

got, but give us -- give me a thumbnail? Who is the most likely partner?

GLASER: Well, this is part of the difficulty that very few of the political parties are straightforward with the public about who they favor as

potential coalition partners, because every party wants to present itself as a possible outright winner.

But look, there are two basic possibilities. One is that the ANC forms a coalition with the parties of the populist lift, which will have some

interesting ramifications potentially, for example, in terms of market reaction. The other possibility is a centrist coalition with the parties

like the Democratic Alliance.

A lot will depend on how close it is to the 50 percent mark. I mean, if it is a couple of percent short of the 50 percent market, it might even go in

with a party like Inkatha Freedom Party.

QUEST: Right. So the DA in a sense does well, but never seems to do well enough, except that on the Western Cape. What would it take for the DA to

come into this coalition?

GLASER: Well, again, it is going to depend on what the overall arithmetic looks like. The DA's problem has always been that it has achieved a kind of

a ceiling. It was very successful in vacuuming up the votes of a whole series of parties that were appealing to the White and Indian and mixed-

race colored minorities, but it has never been able to break into the Black majority to any significant degree and the tactics that it uses to vacuum

up the minority vote alienated the Black majority vote.

So it is probably around a ceiling of 20 percent or so of the vote and it would be a remarkable thing say to have an ANC/DA coalition.

QUEST: Right.

GLASER: It would account to many peoples' expectations. In some ways, it would probably be a good coalition for the stability of the country because

these are two large parties and they could form a pragmatic government.

QUEST: Is the president toast? Is it just a matter of time that after this election, there will have to be a new president? The price of coalition

will be a new president.

GLASER: I don't think that is absolutely certain. I mean, Cyril Ramaphosa is still personally quite popular in the country. He is disappointed a lot

of people are appearing to be indecisive. He has also been involved in some minor corruption allegations and he has been accused of placing party above

country.

People had high expectations of him which he has dashed, but on the other hand, he probably still has more ability than a lot of other contenders to

unite a wide grouping.

So I would say that it is still possible that we might still have President Ramaphosa.

QUEST: Good to see you, sir. Thank you, Professor. We will talk more once I've got results and we will get more analysis. Thank you.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS from New York. The Czech is in the mail, it depends how you spell Czech of four. Britain's iconic postal service has accepted a

takeover bid from foreign billionaire. The workers are uneasy as indeed are some politicians.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:22:34]

QUEST: The US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken says Israel must decide if its military actions in Gaza are worth the cost of civilian lives.

It follows a deadly Israeli strike on a Rafah camp for displaced Palestinians. CNN's analysis of video from the scene -- excuse me -- found

that US-made bombs were used in Sunday's attack. The Israeli military says it was targeting senior Hamas commanders. Gaza's Health Ministry says at

least 45 people were killed including many women and children.

Meanwhile, Israel is pressing ahead with the offensive in Rafah with further tanks are seen west. A top Israeli official says the war could last

another seven months.

Our Jeremy Diamond is in Jerusalem.

Good evening, Jeremy.

Let's just do this seven months question first. I mean, this is -- no one ever likes to hear the reality, but he is maybe speaking the truth when he

says this is going to go on longer than everyone thinks.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and I mean, look, this is somebody very senior, very influential, very close to the Israeli Prime Minister

Benjamin Netanyahu, and he is saying that he believes this war will not only last through the end of the year, meaning seven months into the

future, but that it could even last longer than that, and that speaks to a few different things.

First of all, keep in mind that the Israeli Prime Minister just a little over a month ago in April said that he believed Israel was "on the brink of

victory" against Hamas and think of what has happened since then. We've seen the Israeli military send its ground forces back to areas of Northern

Gaza that it had withdrawn from months earlier to fight Hamas militants who had returned to the area following the withdrawal of those Israeli troops.

And we are also now watching, of course, this Israeli ground offensive in Rafah with the Israeli military announcing just an hour or two ago that it

now has control, operational control of the Gaza-Egypt border known as the strategic Philadelphi Corridor, and what that tells us is that even as the

Israeli military is making some tactical achievements here, they view the fight in Gaza as one that is going to last much, much longer.

And it also frankly speaks to questions about a lack of long-term strategy in terms of the day after in Gaza.

[16:25:03]

QUEST: Jeremy Diamond in Jerusalem, thank you.

The owner of Britain's Royal Mail has accepted a takeover bid from a Czech billionaire. He is offering 4.6 billion for the loss-making postal service.

It was actually privatized from the government, from state ownership in 2013. It is public company now.

If the deal goes through, one of the country's oldest and most significant institutions would pass into foreign hands for the first time.

The Royal Mail has been delivering the post since the 1500s. Hanna Ziady is covering the story for us.

Now, let's go through this sort of gently, if we may. The Royal Mail has been a public company, quoted on the stock market since 2013. If this deal

goes through it, what? It would become a -- it would no longer be listed. It will be a private company?

HANNA ZIADY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Richard, it is privately owned by International Distribution Services, so it was privatized in 2013, but as

you rightly point out, it has been delivering mail since the 1500s. Its origins date back to King Henry VIII. It is 500-year-old institution.

There is an entire museum in London dedicated to celebrating its history. But sadly, that has become something of a sorry tale in recent years. It

has been loss-making for several years.

Last year, it was fined several million pounds by the communications regulator for failing to deliver its letters and parcels on time, a pretty

fundamental part of its business. It has suffered strikes and of course, faces growing competition from rival delivery services.

But Daniel Kretinsky, the Czech billionaire sees an opportunity.

QUEST: How is he going to do this that the current management can't?

ZIADY: So Kretinsky is known as the Czech sphinx because of the low-profile he keeps, but don't let that sort of lead you to underestimate his business

prowess.

Her has built a sprawling empire of companies in energy, retail, football. He owns a large stake in Westham United Football Club here in the UK, also

in Sainsburys and he really sees an opportunity for IDS, the owner of Royal Mail to become Europe's largest postal logistics group.

He has some ideas around lockers for online deliveries where it allows customers to collect their online deliveries with ease. He is going to

inject a bunch of equity into the deal.

But crucially, before he does anything, Richard, this deal must pass a national security review.

QUEST: And that wonderful phrase, I just looked it up, that wonderful phrase the Universal Postal Service in other words, I used to get two

deliveries a day. In other words, every house in the country gets mail delivery on every regular day.

And as if that wasn't enough, the Postal Services Commission and the Secretary of State, and Ofcom. I mean, why the heck did he want it?

ZIADY: You may ask that, and in fact, its service has been very disappointing in recent years, which is why it has been fined and it still

has to uphold this universal service obligation to deliver letters six days a week at a flat fee anywhere in the United Kingdom. It has been trying to

get out of the set of six days a week part of that.

It is a vital piece of national infrastructure, a key public service. It employs 130,000 workers and Kretinsky has made a huge commitment to

upholding that service. He has made commitments to employees.

You know, he sees opportunity, but I will say, Richard, shareholders appear skeptical. The share price in IDS, Royal Mail's gained -- the shares gained

four percent today, but they still closed well below the offer price.

So clearly shareholders are worried that the deal may not pass must, and of course, the national security review could take place under a new

government with UK elections around the corner.

So, it is a politically sensitive time to be doing the deal, but the Czech sphinx thinks that he is on to something.

QUEST: I know. Don't throw Spanish in the works with elections just yet. Thank you very much indeed, leaving plenty there for us to talk about it

this week.

Now, disasters are more frequent and the world of insurance is adapting to keep up with the costs. They are putting up the premiums, but it is also

worrying aspect of the rain.

That man there is the chair of the Lloyds of London, he will be with me after the break to discuss all of it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:33:09]

QUEST: Our top story, the Manhattan jury has finished deliberating for its first day in the Donald Trump trial. They were -- they spent roughly five

hours deliberating and they sent two requests to the judge. Firstly to hear testimony from the star witnesses, David Pecker and Michael Cohen, and then

also to hear the jury instructions again.

In total there are seven men and five women on the jury and they'll decide the fate of Donald Trump. We have two lawyers there, an investment banker,

a software engineer, and a teacher. Under American law, they must reach a unanimous decision on all 34 counts. Now that's very different to the laws

in maybe your country where, for example, you might have majority verdicts or trial by judge and judging panel.

But in the U.S., Jessica Schneider knows only too well, you need all 12 to agree and if they don't -- they don't have to all agree I mean on all of

it, on any given charge they have to all agree.

So, Jessica Schneider, what do you make of day one?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, things were going smoothly, Richard, and then I have to say it seems that the jury

threw a bit of a wrench in the deliberations. They sent two different notes to this judge asking for quite a lot of information. They want a read back

of testimony on four different parts of two different people's testimony.

They want three different instances of where David Pecker testified as to the Trump Tower meeting that he had an August 2015 with Donald Trump and

Michael Cohen allegedly where this plan was hatched for the "National Enquirer" to catch and kill negative stories against the former president,

who at that point had just announced his candidacy.

[16:35:04]

They also wanted to hear about some other conversations that David Pecker had with Donald Trump, including also about Karen McDougal. And then they

wanted to hear Michael Cohen's testimony about that August 2015 meeting at Trump Tower where this plan was hatched.

So they want to hear a lot of testimony. They alerted the judge. The judge said that they actually have to compile the pieces of the testimony in

order for it to be read back so that won't happen until tomorrow. That will take about 30 minutes.

And then Richard, the jury sent another note saying, judge, we want to hear your jury instructions again. And this was what the judge started the day

off with. He spent an hour this morning reading quite complicated jury instructions. And the interesting thing about New York state is that the

judge isn't allowed to give the jury a paper copy of those very crucial instructions that tell the jury exactly how to interpret the law and then

apply them to the facts.

So also tomorrow, they will get a read back of the jury instructions. It's unclear if the judge will have to basically read back all of the hour-long

instructions or if the judge or if the jury wants a particular part of the instructions read back.

So to me it sounds like this jury is being very thorough, but there's also that risk that maybe they're starting to go down a rabbit hole and there's

disagreement as -- you know, I don't know.

QUEST: Now, now, now. Too soon for rabbit holes.

SCHNEIDER: Well --

QUEST: But -

SCHNEIDER: There are a lot of facts here. Yes.

QUEST: There are. I think, this is a mugs game, by the way. I think, I think we're in it for the long haul. Thank you. Good to see you, Jessica.

SCHNEIDER: I agree. I agree.

QUEST: Agree.

The cost to insuring a home in many parts of the world is rising precipitously. In the United States, S&P says homeowner insurance jumped 11

percent. In the U.K., the ABI says they're up 13 percent. It's not a disaster that are becoming much more common. Putting pressure on

homeowners, putting the viability of insurance into question.

This is Bruce Carnegie-Brown, the chair of Lloyds of London, who joins me now in New York.

All right. I'm going to get this off my chest. My Lloyds of London policy, which is, all right, it's a beach house, it's not on the beach, but it's

close, went up 40 percent. 40. Why?

BRUCE CARNEGIE-BROWN, CHAIR, LLOYD'S OF LONDON: So I think there are three reasons, Richard, why our policy is probably going up in price. The first

is the value of your property is going up in price. The second thing is persistent inflation is pushing out the replacement costs to your property,

materials and the building contractors. And thirdly, as you identified in your introduction, natural catastrophe disasters are increasing in

frequency and severity, and this is having quite a big impact on the cost of insurance.

QUEST: Now, what point, you know, we're reading stories in the "New York Times" where people are saying I can't afford to insure the house. I just

got afford to insure it. Now, you're dealing with insurance at the highest level, you know, oil rigs and nuclear reactors and the like. But as an

industry, what point do you start getting worried that people just won't insure because they can't afford it?

CARNEGIE-BROWN: Well, that is the problem. So it is important that insurance is both available and affordable. Otherwise, people don't buy it.

And when you think about the math in insurance, well, it's really important just that we are insuring unexpected outcomes. If the outcomes are expected

then of course the value of insurance breaks down because ultimately the claim and the premium are the same number.

And so when incidents like natural catastrophes are on the increase, it's really important that we begin to build more resilience into our economy in

order to make our homes, our buildings, our lives safer, so that insurance can do its job, which is to pay the claims for unexpected losses.

QUEST: The days of Lloyd's being a bit shaky have long since gone. And your balance sheet is extremely strong and the reinsurance diversification of

risk is tremendous. So what worries you now? As you look at -- you know, you've got this institution in your hands but as you look 20 years down the

road, what's the biggest worry for you and Lloyd's?

CARNEGIE-BROWN: Well, I think it's the breadth of risks that the world faces is one of the challenges. So technology risks that we see, a natural

catastrophe risks that we just talked about. Cyber risks clearly increasing. Geopolitical risks globally. All of these things have an impact

on the business that we underwrite at Lloyd's.

I'll go further and say I think there are three what I would call systemic risks that worry us a lot as we look out on the horizon. One of which of

course we experienced, which is pandemic, the second of which I've just mentioned, which is a cyberattack, and the third is climate. And when I

talk about systemic risks, I mean risks that are too big for the industry alone to underwrite and which require us to work hand-in-hand with

governments around the world if we're going to protect citizens from the impacts of these risks.

[16:40:07]

QUEST: So to get, bearing in mind just what you said about the risks that you're facing. what does Lloyd's itself fit the purpose now? What does it

need to change to be fit for purpose in 20 years?

CARNEGIE-BROWN: Well, the important issue for us, of course, is to keep our cost-based down. So more of the premium that you pay goes to provide

protection to you. It's about innovation and what can we do to help mitigate against the risks that we see developing. How do we use data to be

smarter about predicting the risks and where they will occur. So technology is our friend as well as a challenge when we think about cyber risks, for

instance.

QUEST: Sir, I think we need to come and visit you in your building, your rather exotic building that is still an interesting one to look at when

were in London.

CARNEGIE-BROWN: You'd be very welcome.

QUEST: And the bell. Was it near the bell? I mean, I've only got my little bell here. It's solution value. You've got the big one that you hit every

now and again. No, don't worry, I won't to ask during your -- that means a big play mode disaster.

CARNEGIE-BROWN: Yes, you're not allowed to have the bell run.

QUEST: You just wait until I get there. Sir, good to see you. Thank you.

CARNEGIE-BROWN: Thank you.

QUEST: U.S. markets dipped after a spike in treasury yields. The Dow Jones spent the day in the red, closed 411 points down. Dick's Sporting Goods had

its best day in three years. Look at that, don't you wish you knew what was going to happen the day before? Raise guidance it went up 15 percent.

And that is the way the day looks. Busy day. It's going to be a busy week, whichever way we go.

I'm Richard Quest in New York. Thank you for your company. And whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, hope it's profitable. Coming up next,

"WORLD OF WONDER," and if I'm not mistaken I think I'm in Paris.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:45:19]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST (voice-over): I'm Richard Quest. I love traveling the world. Broaden the mind, open the heart.

It really is quite something to see all this.

(Voice-over): And I'm not done yet. It's time to embrace new adventures. Find the fun. Seize the moments.

Spectacular.

(Voice-over): In this WORLD OF WONDER.

A lot of useless time is spent debating which country has the best cuisine. Few will ever agree.

Look at that.

(Voice-over): I've already cast my vote. I think that French cuisine is way up there amongst the best.

This, the flavor. This is very, very good.

(Voice-over): And there is a reason. It's because the chefs are trained, trained, and then trained again. And the true test for any French chef,

mastering the omelette. Julia Childs became famous after she showed Americans how to make one.

JULIA CHILDS, CHEF: It's a wonderful dish to know about. It's not just the breakfast.

QUEST: Dame Helen Mirren put young Manish Dayal to the test in "The Hundred-Foot Journey." Making the perfect French omelette was my pandemic

obsession. I made omelette after omelette. The chef Yannick Alleno has all 16 Michelin stars shining, and just promised to show me how to make French

omelette.

(On-camera): Why is the omelette considered to be the perfect thing, the epitome?

YANNICK ALLENO, CHEF: This is the most difficult things to realize. So as you know, cook is a dance with the fire. You should know how to dance with

the fire. So the omelette is the perfect thing for that.

Break the eggs. Farm eggs of course. And then you start. Then your milk.

QUEST: He uses milk, not water.

ALLENO: Can you put some pepper please?

QUEST: And that's a fork. Forget the whisk.

I never do this. I always just put it straight in the pan.

ALLENO: But then you see it's perfectly clean. OK?

QUEST: Yes. Yes. Yes.

(Voice-over) And now a new technique. Cook on a high temperature and (speaking in foreign language), quick.

Oh, look at this. This is just a thing of beauty.

ALLENO: Because the texture has to be controlled. You know?

QUEST: You're rolling.

ALLENO: Rolling. It's very quick, huh. And then you take your plates, and you do it like this.

QUEST: How did you do that without it all falling apart?

ALLENO: Pepper on this. I'm sure you like it.

QUEST: It's perfect. Beautiful.

(Voice-over): I may be nervous but I'm determined. I'm ready.

Fork.

ALLENO: Yes. Good luck.

QUEST: It's good luck. It's good luck.

ALLENO: Yes.

AL, THE CAMERAMAN: You can't stick your finger in there.

QUEST (voice-over): Oh, shut up. Salt, pepper, butter, oil.

ALLENO: OK. No stress. Go.

QUEST: And remember speed is the key.

ALLENO: Go, go, go, go, go, wait, and turn. Perfect. Better than I do. More, more, more, more, more, more, more. Stop. Start to roll it. Yes,

better.

QUEST: It's falling apart. It's disaster, Chef.

ALLENO: No, that's perfect. Come. Hey, it's not so bad.

[16:50:01]

Look at it. It's better than mine. Are you satisfied?

QUEST: I am actually.

ALLENO: You can.

QUEST: But the --

ALLENO: You can be proud of this.

QUEST: Yes. But that was the -- it was the -- I'm speechless.

ALLENO: Take that. It's my day off today. I'm going. Bye.

AL: How many people is he cooking for today?

ALLENO: Forty-five.

QUEST (voice-over): As Julia would say,

CHILDS: Bon appetit and good omelette.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST (voice-over): It's Friday night. They're here by the thousands. Pari Roller. Paris on Wheels. They want me to join in. What could possibly go

wrong?

The last time I rollerbladed was about seven, 15, 16 years ago for one simple reason, I'm just hopeless.

BIJAN, PRODUCER: Al and I are not going to let anything bad happen to you. Put the blades on first.

QUEST: Such a bad idea.

(Voice-over): Bijan is taking charge. He has a confidence that I think is misplaced.

BIJAN: Do you trust me?

QUEST: No. No. He's expecting me to ride around Paris with 3,000 other people tonight.

BIJAN: Why are you grabbing him? Don't grab him.

QUEST (voice-over): I've turned into a Parisian attraction.

This is a really bad idea, isn't it? I know, look at. What was I thinking?

BIJAN: All right. Try to move on your own.

QUEST: No.

BIJAN: No, no, no. I'll hold you, but try to --

QUEST (voice-over): This has disaster written all over it.

BIJAN: I think he's fine. What are you doing?

QUEST: I'm ready to divide them. You're going to help me get back.

(Voice-over): Thankfully the universe came to my rescue. The heavens opened. The Pari Roller was canceled that night. And I was spared

humiliation and probably a trip to the emergency room. But the weather couldn't save me from my faith. My date with the Arc de Triomphe.

AL: Do you remember which side of the road you're meant to be on, Richard?

QUEST: Will you keep quiet in the back, please.

(Voice-over): Back in the trusty 2CV.

MARC ZUFRIDEN, GUIDE, PARIS AUTHENTIC: Very good. You're good now.

QUEST: I must remember, Marc's instructions.

ZUFRIDEN: It's this one. OK? And by doing it, don't take, don't take this, don't you take a right, and up here you go left OK and that's where you go

right, OK?

QUEST: I go left, I go right. And I give way to the right.

ZUFRIDEN: Yes. Exactly. But you're free to rotate or twice.

QUEST: It's terrifying. Wrong side of the road. An unfamiliar car. So how do I do it? Tell me the secret?

ZUFRIDEN: Your best source is Avenue de Champs-Elysees.

QUEST (voice-over): The Champs-Elysees, a road steeped in French Napoleonic history. But Al and I are about to meet my own Waterloo.

Sing it, Al.

(Voice-over): I've reached the starting point. Marc is no longer singing. He's looking worried.

Look at that. This is terrifying, Al.

AL: I know.

QUEST: Help.

AL: Where are you going?

QUEST: Am I going round or going to the --

AL: Keep going round.

QUEST: Keep going. No, no, no. (INAUDIBLE). I can't get up there.

[16:55:00]

What? Look.

(Voice-over): So many horns. The locals are saying hello. Or perhaps something suitably French.

Look at him. I was going so well.

ZUFRIDEN: What do you want?

QUEST: I don't know.

(Voice-over): I don't know about which I'm more pleased, that I survived or that the Deux Chevaux is intact. I have a renewed confidence. And so to

Paris' number one landmark.

It's the sheer size of this compared to everything else. Look at it.

Jose Ruiz Cobo claims to know all there is about the Eiffel Tower.

Do you ever get tired coming up here?

JOSE RUIZ COBO, GUIDE, EIFFEL TOWER: Not really, especially this early when there's no one here. You can really enjoy the view.

QUEST (voice-over): And now to a place few get to enter.

RUIZ COBO: Please, after you.

QUEST: Wow.

(Voice-over): Gustav Eiffel's apartment. He was the engineer behind this whole thing.

People craved to come in here, didn't they?

RUIZ COBO: They did. They offered sums of money to rent it. But he refused. He would only bring family, friends, and scientists.

QUEST (voice-over): Even though I'm impressed by Eiffel's living room, I'm more impressed with the knowledge of my guide Jose. And time to put him to

the test.

When was the Eiffel Tower built?

RUIZ COBO: 1889.

QUEST: Why was the Eiffel Tower built?

RUIZ COBO: For the war exhibition.

QUEST: How long was it meant to be here?

RUIZ COBO: For 20 years.

QUEST: How tall is the Eiffel Tower?

RUIZ COBO: 330 meters.

QUEST: How often is the tower painted?

RUIZ COBO: Every seven years.

QUEST: What's the color of it?

RUIZ COBO: Yellow, brown color. The original one was gray.

QUEST: What was the name of the person who built it?

RUIZ COBO: Gustav Eiffel.

QUEST: And why did he build it?

RUIZ COBO: To show the great views of France and the ability to build better than anyone else.

QUEST: Thank you.

RUIZ COBO: Welcome. That was stressful.

(LAUGHTER)

QUEST (voice-over): It's taken so many years to learn so many facts.

Paris. What a magnificent view wherever I look. And you'll want to come here and enjoy all these views for yourself.

Magnificent Paris. Without doubt, part of our WORLD OF WONDER.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Ahead this hour, the jury in Donald Trump's hush money cover-up trial has wrapped its first day of deliberations. The juror sent two notes late in

the day to the judge.

END