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Quest Means Business

Apple Facing Crippling Fine For Breaching Tech Rules; AI Steve Vying For Parliament Seat In UK Election; Death Toll From Attack On Churches, Synagogues Rises To 20; Wall Street Shrugs Off U.S. Election Uncertainty; U.S. Supreme Court To Decide Whether States Can Restrict Gender-Affirming Care For Minors; 102-Year-Old Holocaust Survivor Is Vogue Germany's Cover Star; 102-Year-Old Holocaust Survivor Margot Friedlander Becomes Vogue Germany Cover Star And She Is One Of The World's Oldest Survivors Of The Holocaust And Becomes The Second Oldest Cover Star Of The Magazine. Aired 4-4:45p ET

Aired June 24, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:12]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Closing bell ringing on Wall Street. The start of a new week. The guys have got them, it's a good day on the

Dow, by the way, thumbs up.

Next you want is gavel. It looks like we are up 263 points for the Dow Jones at the moment. A strong session just off the tops of the day. But

otherwise, all well and good. That's the market and the news that we will be talking about over the course of the next hour.

The EU accuses Apple of breaking its new tech rules. If found guilty, the violation could cost Apple dearly.

Wall Street is after its best start ever for a presidential election year. What it actually means.

And I meet the man behind AI Steve. He hopes artificial intelligence can transform British, I suppose everybody else's politics.

Tonight, we are live in London on Monday. It is June the 24th. I am Richard Quest, and, yes, in London, as elsewhere I mean business.

Good evening. We begin tonight with the European Union, which is taking its biggest shot yet at Apple threatening the company with a crippling fine

over a key part of its business.

The Commission says Apple coerces people to shop through its App Store in breach of the new EU Digital Markets Act, the DMA, as we will call it.

Apple says it has changed how the store operates to comply with the law. Clearly, not in the view of the EU itself.

If found guilty, Apple could be fined up to 10 percent of its global revenues, $38 billion. It is the first time the EU as accused a company of

violating the DMA. Similar investigations are underway against Meta and Google.

Now, earlier, just a couple of months ago, I spoke to the EU's antitrust chief, Margrethe Vestager after the DMA came in and she told me that

brussels was prepared to enforce its rules.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARGRETHE VESTAGER, EUROPEAN COMMISSIONER FOR COMPETITION: If you do not follow the rules of the law, well, there will be sanctions. There will be

fines. There will be even more hefty fines in repeat instances, and we now how have, you know, fresh deterrents to say that as a measure of last

resort, if the fines doesn't work, then companies can be asked to divest.

They can be broken up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Clare is in New York.

Nobody can ever -- you and I have talked about this before, of course. But nobody can ever say that they weren't warned how much peril is Apple in

here? Because this is all about the App Store third party access, which there now is, and a fee that is paid for access to.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Right. Richard, we are seeing sort of this core tension that Apple has run into with the European Union on this

issue and others as well, where Apple says that it wants to keep consumers in its Apple ecosystem because it is better for consumers.

If consumers by things through the App Store, it has security measures, they will be safer, but the EU says that this is essentially a misuse of

Apple's size and its market power.

It has taken issue with the fact that Apple doesn't allow app developers to let consumers know about deals or sales that are available for purchase

outside of their iOS app, and that is because a lot of App developers charge a premium for purchases made in the iOS app because Apple takes a

cut of that.

And the EU is essentially saying here that consumers may be paying more than they need to be without knowing about it because of these rules that

Apple has in place, and so I think this is sort of this core tension between Apple wanting to keep things in its ecosystem, but the EU saying

that that is anticompetitive.

QUEST: The problem is, of course, the EU seems to be always the one leading the way. I don't notice the CMA in the United Kingdom. The DOJ, yes, it has

its cases, but it doesn't seem to be as vigilant or some will say virulent on it.

DUFFY: Absolutely. Yes, I mean the EU is leading the way here. Apple is facing antitrust pressure in the US as well, but the US sort of legal

system is often much slower, and of course, what the DMA, we've been waiting for years for this to come into effect, it has come into effect

finally now, in March, and as Vestager said there, it is clear from this Apple action that they are not wasting any time in taking steps to enforce

this new law.

And this could really be a major blow to Apple. I mean, this is one of the most valuable companies in the world, but $38 billion is no chump change

even for Apple.

And I think it is also a concern where you might have other jurisdictions, other areas following the EU's lead here and coming after Apple for this

same issue.

[16:05:06]

QUEST: This is classic, the way in which the EU does it, which is what Thierry Breton and indeed, Margarethe Vestager have both said, you put out

a new rule and you wait for people to break it and then you go after them, different to the US.

But is there -- are we really talking -- like the old joke is no, we are just arguing over the price.

DUFFY: It is a good question and I mean, Apple certainly has said that it has made changes. It believes it is already in compliance with this law,

and I were a lawyer at Meta or Google, I would certainly be looking carefully at my changes that I have made to be in compliance with the DMA

because they are also facing similar investigations and this action against Apple is again, just a sign that the EU is not slowing down on this issue.

It is planning to come after these companies even though they've all said, look, we've looked at this law, we've made some changes, but the EU wants

to make sure that that is true.

QUEST: Clare, very grateful. Thank you.

Now as the EU is cracking down on tech, British voters could choose an, AI, artificial intelligence model for Parliament.

It is called AI Steve and there he is and its represented by Neural Voice Chair Steve Endacott. He is vying for seat in Brighton, one of the British

Parliamentary constituencies.

Mr. Endacott says, AI Steve will be his copilot in Parliament. AI Steve answers questions from voters and those choosing policies based on their

results.

So AI Steve, that's the digital one, I put to the test just before we came on air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: What's your policy on Ukraine? Where do you stand on the allies assisting the Ukrainian government with weapons.

AI STEVE: As Smarter UK, I stand in full support of the Ukrainian government and people in the face of Russian aggression. The Second World

War showed us the importance of standing up to dictators who invade other countries, and I believe it is crucial that we, as a nation continue to

support Ukraine in their fight for freedom and sovereignty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: So there you have a straightforward assessment of his position. AI Steve is up against a crowded field. These are the human rivals on the

screen, right here.

Steve Endacott is the man behind AI Steve. He is with me.

Let's just be clear about this. You are the one standing for Parliament. You will be -- if you are elected the warm body on the green benches, but

AI Steve is what you are using as a way to, if you will, inform yourself and formulate your policies, is that right?

STEVE ENDACOTT, CEO, NEURAL VOICE: Absolutely spot on. How many politicians actually listened or talked to their constituents outside a four-year

cycle? We've created a platform they can talk to 24/7, three hundred sixty- five days a year from the comfort of their home, no knocking on the door, know dragging them out of bed, no going to the slippers. They tell us what

the policies are.

Then human beings create their policies and put it to another human group to validate it where commuter going down to London from Brighton to

actually does it pass the common sense test of the common man and the common lady before it becomes a party policy.

So AI enabling us to talk to more humans and bring more humans into politics which we think is broken.

QUEST: Right AI or AI Steve can only answer in so far as you have or the algorithm has programmed the answer. Here is an example where we wanted to

find, if you will, AI's limitations. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: So you're getting your answers from the received knowledge that you have of Steve's view. Do you always get it right? Are there times when you

simply don't know what Steve thinks.

AI STEVE: As AI Steve, I am designed to provide responses based on my training data, which includes information about Steve Endacott's views and

policies; however, I am not perfect and there may be instances where I don't fully understand or accurately represent Steve's views.

In those cases, I may need to ask follow-up questions or clarify his views to ensure that I provide an accurate response.

QUEST: Give me an example of such an incident or occasional question?

AI STEVE: One example that comes to mind is when a user asked me about my stance on the Palestine-Israel conflict. I didn't have a pre-existing

policy or view on this topic, so I flagged it for review with Steve Endacott.

He provided me with his thoughts and views on the matter, which is then used to inform my response to the user.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Steve, the real Steve, this is very clever stuff. how often does AI Steve, does your alter ego come to you and say, I need some help on this?

ENDACOTT: Okay, so what he has been trained to is always go to our database of our policies first, but it can then go off to the knowledge of the

internet. But when it does so, it is trained to research a topic, but go back to the user and push them to give their answers to me so we can come

back and consolidate what people want policies on or they don't have policies on.

[16:10:16]

That happens every single good day of every single week, and that is why we think it is a Smarter UK and we think its policies follow the people, by

the people.

Groundbreaking, yet democracy.

QUEST: Yes. But --

ENDACOTT: You can actually like.

QUEST: But you're a representative, you're not a delegate when you go to Parliament and what you're saying and as I understand you correctly, what

you're saying is that if the consensus of views coming back via AI Steve is that your policy should be X. That's almost mandating you to have that

policy is there?

ENDACOTT: It is not almost, a pledge in our referendum, in our Constitution is that if we don't represent the views of the people, yes, we can have a

moral dilemma and we can resign.

But basically, we are there to represent the views of the people and every major voting will go back to people to say what do you think? Using

technology. What's so wrong with that?

QUEST: What's wrong with it is lowest common denominator. What's wrong with it is you hope that your elected representatives, sometimes, sometimes have

to take a wider view, not the populist view.

ENDACOTT: So we also have the ability to go back to our voters and say, this is our opinion, but if voters decide our opinion is wrong, that is

called democracy.

Populist views are democratic. If more than 51 percent of people want stuff -- Brexit, I didn't agree with Brexit, but it has to be implemented because

the UK voted to leave the EU, wrong decision my opinion. My opinion doesn't count. I have to go and be representing my voters.

QUEST: Right. So you're a rubber stamp.

ENDACOTT: No, I am an intelligent person who is pointing policies to the voters, having discussion with the voters, taking their input and actually

then doing what they want. How many politicians have we got in the UK disappear involvement, do what they want? So, it is actually democracy,

where we are actually reportable, accountable to our voters and we do what they want.

Radical I know, but maybe not so stupid.

QUEST: No, well, I don't think it is either radical nor stupid. I just think that at the end of the day, you are -- one would hope that that one's

elected representatives do the right thing, but that isn't necessarily always what the majority on any given Tuesday might want.

ENDACOTT: You sound like a dictatorship there. So surely when you actually have voters -- voters decide, the majority -- what you want, you're talking

about dictatorship.

QUEST: With respect --

ENDACOTT: So basically, I --

QUEST: No, no. Let's not go -- you know, as well as I do that there is then if, if a politician does adopt that particular course of action, then it is

incumbent or available to the electorate to kick them out at the next election.

What you might as well do is get rid of you on any given day, Steve, we might as well get rid of you, put your -- or rather put you as a puppet,

have your votes online, get AI Steve collate the votes, Steve, that's how you're voting tonight.

ENDACOTT: And partly that's true, but we have a discussion with our constituents. We don't just put pieces of paper out there. We have ongoing

discussions with our group of creators to actually validate the positions we are taking to make what we follow intelligent and correct and then we

validate it with a separate group, that is democracy.

You might not like it, Richard, but that's our definition with democracy. It is not a dictatorship, which is where I think you're going.

QUEST: Well, I think with overriding respect to you, sir, I think, you know, that is not where I am going and that is not my eventual end goal. I

think what I am fascinated by having had a conversation with AI Steve is the potential and the opportunity, not in the way you're planning on using

AI Steve, but as a vehicle for further engagement with your constituents, I think it has enormous potential.

I think it has absolutely huge potential, and I am surprised others aren't using it or finding other ways, perhaps less rubber stampy than you.

ENDACOTT: Richard, come and join our party. Come and shape it, coming to help us could benefit. I accept what you're saying. So rather than sit on

the side, get inside the tent, do something about politics, and create a new party that actually does what the voters want.

It is an opportunity and we've got to take it.

QUEST: I am obliged to say, although I do not think for a second, that this actually influenced what you're doing, but just in that in the interest of

transparency and completeness, you are sort of the chair or a shareholder in the company that's running the software, the AI software behind it, AI

Steve.

But so as I say Neural -- but I don't for a second suggest that there is anything wrong with that. I am just putting that out so that the viewer

doesn't say, oh, I didn't know about that. I want to know.

ENDACOTT: I am glad you say it. That's what is on all our electoral material. We make it clear. I am a minority shareholder, I am an investor.

[16:15:07]

I came across these 10 bright, guys. We had a conversation in the pub, and they said, actually we could do what you want to do as a politician. I

went, let's build it then, and they built it for me.

So I think it is right that business people should come into politics. I think it is right we should bring our ideas and it is right we have to

declare our interests. Anything there is a conflict of interests cannot be voted on by me, absolutely.

QUEST: And the meme of you as AI Steve is rather flattering, I think as well.

ENDACOTT: I won't have to give up --

QUEST: Sorry?

ENDACOTT: Why would you not want to have one, Richard? You wouldn't want it lumpier, would you? But to be fair, the AI built it, it just took my photo,

came out with that and I went, oh, that's better looking, I'll take him, thank you.

QUEST: Exactly, and nothing wrong with that, sir. Nothing wrong you that.

We did ask a variety of questions by the way, which AI Steve didn't want to answer, but I will ask you as the real Steve. He said he didn't know. I

said Trump or Biden?

ENDACOTT: Neither. American democracy is even more broken than us. Why would you have an old man or a convicted criminal that actually doesn't

know what he is doing. So thank you, I don't like our politics. I like theirs even less.

QUEST: Thank you very much, sir. Good to have you on the program tonight. We will talk more as the election progresses. Very interesting development

tonight, I am grateful to you.

ENDACOTT: Thank you, Richard.

QUEST: The UK election of course is on July the Fourth. We will have special coverage. It will get underway a little before 5:00 PM Eastern,

9:55 in London, because the polls close at ten o'clock. And when they close, we will be with you.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight from London. Saudi Arabia says, more than 1,300 people have died during this year's Hajj, from one pilgrim, his

experience from the unauthorized pilgrims. Many of them who died.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Authorities in Russia's Dagestan province are trying to work out who staged a coordinated terror attack there on Sunday. Twenty people were

killed officials say when gunmen opened fire on places of worship and police checkpoints.

CNN's Clare Sebastian reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Shattering the calm of a summer evening, Russian authorities say these were coordinated attacks

simultaneously targeting both Dagestan's capital, Makhachkala and Derbent, an ancient city more than a hundred kilometers away.

[16:20:05]

There, attackers fired on this synagogue just 40 minutes before evening prayers says the Russian Jewish Congress, setting it on fire.

As police confronted attackers, 19 people locked themselves in this church in Makhachkala according to state media. They were later brought to safety.

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE speaking in foreign language.)

SEBASTIAN (voice over): "Around six o'clock or ten past six, they were already shooting heavily," says this eyewitness speaking to Russian state

TV. "They killed our Misha and security guard."

MAYOR YUSUP UMAVOV, MAKHACHKALA, RUSSIA (through translator): The relevant services and law enforcement agencies worked quickly, but unfortunately,

there were losses.

We offer our sincere condolences to the families and friends whose sons and brothers died today.

SEBASTIAN (voice over): Most of the casualties, police officers, but gruesome details emerged about the murder of an Orthodox priest in Derbent,

attackers, cutting his throat according to one local official.

The head of the predominantly Muslim Republic said this was an attempt to destabilize the region, hinting at foreign influence.

GOV. SERGEY MELKOV, DAGESTAN PROVINCE (Through translator): A thorough operative search and investigative measures will be carried out until all

participants of the sleeper cells are identified, which undoubtedly include some that were organized from abroad,.

SEBASTIAN (voice over): The attack which Russia is investigating as terrorism comes just three months after the deadliest terror attack in

Russia in two decades. More than a hundred and forty people killed at a Moscow concert hall.

Russia's president then laid the blame on the West and Ukraine, despite the claim of responsibility from ISIS-K, the Islamic state's regional branch in

Afghanistan.

Ethnic tension is also a key focus in Dagestan, a region with an ancient Jewish population. In late October, an anti-Jewish mob stormed the main

airport in Dagestan's capital as a flight landed from Tel Aviv.

This latest attack raising more serious security questions. Russia already at war in Ukraine facing growing threats at home.

Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: To this year's Hajj now and Saudi Arabia says 1,300 people died during the pilgrimage to Mecca, numerous cases according to authorities

were the extreme heat.. We don't know the exact number. Someone is to say they saw participants lose conscious or walk past bodies covered on the

side of the road and some pilgrims complained this year's trip lacked adequate infrastructure and planning.

Now, all in all, for those completing the Hajj, it takes about five days to do it. Bearing in mind, we are talking about temperatures here that were to

40 to 50 -- I will show you in just a second.

You go from Mina, to Arafat, to Muzdalifah and then around again. Some 44 kilometers in these blistering heat and in each of these bases,

particularly of course in Mecca. There are more procedures, there are more religious ceremonies that have to be completed.

According to the authorities in Saudi, most of those who died were traveling through unlicensed tour operators. These companies don't

typically provide air conditioned buses or easy access to food and water.

And look at the temperatures that we are talking about, 45. These are now, but apparently last week, they were heading up higher than that -- 48 to

49, maybe even as high as 50.

Zirrar Ali is a photographer and writer who just returned from his Hajj pilgrims, which he took his 70-year-old father. He joins me now.

Reading now between the lines -- good to have you with us, sir. Reading between the lines, the authorities are basically saying this is those who

were there on tourist visas, not Hajj visas, were unauthorized, and therefore did not have the backup and the support of organization or a tour

company.

Does that sound about right?

ZIRRAR ALI, PHOTOGRAPHER AND WRITER: I think -- good to be with you. I think there is some truth to that, but if you look at the history of the

pilgrimage and whenever there has been an incident in the past, this is the first line the Saudi government goes to, which is these are unlicensed,

unregistered pilgrims.

People impacted were also people who were registered like myself and my father, so we had all the facilities, we had the air conditioned buses, but

yet we were also endanger at the same time.

It is hard to know exactly how many who died tragically were unregistered. We will take their word for it. But I don't believe that it is specifically

designed, designated just to those pilgrims.

From speaking to friends and family and strangers who were also impacted, these are people who are registered, who went through the official channels

as did I and my father and were in the same boat.

So I don't think you can separate it as easily as that, unfortunately.

QUEST: For those obviously who are not familiar, I've seen the pictures and we are looking at some of your pictures, some of your superb work at the

moment.

[16:25:02]

I mean, when you're in the middle of that sort of fervent crowd for many of whom are doing it for the first and only time in their lives and they are

just -- they are swept up in the emotion. How easy was it if you suddenly said, I need to get a glass of water. I need a bottle of water. Was it

easy?

ALI: It is very difficult. It is very difficult.

So now, although water is provided in some parts of the route, as you mentioned earlier, there is a lot of walking. So if you leave with two

bottles of water, which you think would be enough, you can drink that within minutes.

So once you need more water, if you're not in the right place, there is no water to be provided, and this is where people really struggled because

you'd have to walk a mile and maybe even longer to find somebody to give you water.

And so those supplies, they should have been really available on all parts of the route just were not. So this is where pilgrims were helping each

other and that is what it comes down to is helping other pilgrims and not through the official channels, which I feel like should it been the

standard procedure at least with us.

QUEST: Don't take this question the wrong way, but there is never any shortage of entrepreneurial people who will turn up to sell you a bottle of

water, so how is that different here?

ALI: So to be honest with you, I think the reason I survived some of the hottest days of the Hajj was through volunteers.

Now Hajj is a very sacred time and people try and behave and charitable donations and individuals do come out. So as I mentioned, I think the only

reason I survived the hottest days was because we had individuals who were giving out bottles of water, out of their own accord, not selling them and

these are individuals who are private. There is no license. They just simply come out of the goodwill of their own heart and they give water, but

they only have so much, right?

QUEST: Right.

ALI: And so this is when you get crowds who are gathering and fighting for a limited amount of water and food.

QUEST: I want to end on a positive note. What did you get from it? You were there with your father. Describe for me the moment.

ALI: For me, it was an incredibly important trip and it meant a lot to share this with my elderly father. And so for me, I got this spiritual high

that I wanted from the trip.

I was fortunate enough to be in a healthy fit state that I didn't suffer the way many did. So for me, it is a memory I will keep with me for the

rest of my life and I hope I could also say the same thing for many others who did not survive, unfortunately this pilgrimage.

QUEST: Glad you were with us tonight. I am grateful to you, sir. Thank you.

ALI: Thank you.

QUEST: Now, I end on that final question about the importance of the spirituality part of it and getting the most from these moments.

A 102-year-old holocaust survivor is on the cover of this year's -- this summer's "Vogue" Germany. Her name is Margot Friedlander. Her mother and

brother were killed at Auschwitz.

Margot has spent her life sharing her family's story and educating others and she wrote a book about the whole experience called "Try To Make Your

Life."

I had the honor to meet Mrs. Friedlander when I was filming a "World of Wonder" in berlin in 2018.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARGOT FRIEDLANDER, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: And a woman said to me, your mother left. She didn't leave a message for me in writing, but said, if you see my

daughter because, she didn't know if they would see me, if you see her, tell her she should try to make her life.

QUEST: She should try --

FRIEDLANDER: (Speaking in foreign language). Just these words. And then the woman hands me something my mother left for me. It was her handbag, and in

the handbag was the necklace and her atlas and her address book. I knew I had to go into hiding.

QUEST: When you go into bed at night, do you sleep well?

FRIEDLANDER: No, don't ask. I can show you my sleeping pills.

QUEST: At 96, Margot is still formidable. A woman who made it alive out of the Trostenets Concentration Camp. Now she's back in Berlin with a message

lest we forget.

FRIEDLANDER: It should not happen again. It could happen again, at least that I've made it, I can thank my mother for it. Because if I would have

gone with her, I would have ended up like she did into death. And at least, I can now talk and say be careful for millions and millions and millions

who couldn't make it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: "Try To Make Your Life." This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:33:53]

QUEST: Counting down are not to Christmas. 133 days. No, it's not until Santa Claus, this is until the U.S. presidential election. And the markets

are very much taking it in their stride. You'd have thought that had been more worried by what's been happening but was been has been on a tear

lately with U.S. election only those few months away. Just take a look. We've -- the NASDAQ is going up.

But of course, it's coming down just a tad in the video is taking a bit of a couple of other stocks. We're having a bit of a -- if you'd like a

rotation, as they say, and particularly out of the video into other --under other stocks. And I think you see that very interestingly. I'm going to

show you, you see that and that? Just that little bit down the beneficiary is the Dow Jones going up. You can actually see that off (INAUDIBLE) quite

as clearly in the market.

But as you see the NASDAQ coming off the top, the Dow slightly higher. But the issue of course is what it means for the electoral -- the election, how

it will influence all of this. Matt Egan on what's driving the gains in this year of political uncertainty.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Richard, if Wall Street is nervous about the November election it's certainly not showing it. The S&P 500 is not more

than 30 record highs so far this year.

[16:35:08]

That equates to one record every four trading days. Now, history shows that presidential election years are typically good ones for the stock market.

Election years where the incumbent president is running for reelection. Those are especially good. Still, this year's return of more than 14

percent for the S&P 500 is historically strong. The best start to an election year on record, according to Goldman Sachs.

Now, not only are stocks going up, but they are rarely going down. It's been more than 330 days since the S&P 500 suffered a drop of two percent or

more. That's the longest stretch since early 2018. Now perhaps that's because both candidates are known entities. Lowering some of the

uncertainty here. It's the first time since 1892 that the nominees of both major parties have previously occupied the White House.

Or maybe it's because Nvidia and other Artificial Intelligence stocks are catapulting the market higher and higher. Throw in the fact that inflation

is cooling, unemployment is low and the Federal Reserve is still penciling in an interest rate cut later this year. If anything, though the strong

performance this year does raise a question. Are investors paying enough attention to election risks?

After all, polls show that this race is extremely close and some experts are worried about a contested election that triggers uncertainty or even

social unrest. Now perhaps investors will start to pay more attention to the election risks and rewards in the coming days, starting with Thursday's

presidential debate live on CNN. Richard?

QUEST: Matt, I'm grateful. The debate that you refer gets underway at 9:00 p.m. Eastern time in the U.S. Jake and Dana Bash will be moderating. You'll

be able to see across the CNN firm on CNNI, CNN, CNN Max, CNNE, online, where ad -- you can't miss it. We will have more.

The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed their arguments on Tennessee's ban on medical care for transgender minors. The Biden administration is

challenging the law, which bans hormone therapy and puberty blockers for children. Around half the U.S. states have such bans on gender affirming

care for minors (INAUDIBLE) the defense trial attorney Misty Maris joins me now.

Well, first thing to make clear is they decided to hear it. But we won't -- the hearing won't be till next year. And it's pretty much about this time

next year that we'll get the result.

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: Absolutely. So, the Supreme Court did decide to take up this issue, which is something that the Biden

administration was asking to be expedited. The reason being right now everything relating to transgender care is in flux. Because the statutes

that are being passed across the country 25 states and Tennessee being one that's going to be kind of the poster child for this.

The one that Supreme Court has put it here, that's what medical providers in a quandary as to what is good and what is not. So, hearing the case was

the first step for the Supreme Court to basically alleviate some of those concerns and get some clarity moving forward.

QUEST: So, they only chose the Tennessee case. There were several others that they could have done. That was obviously significant. But it suggests

if you take that, that they chose the Tennessee case, would you expect a blockbuster decision or an incremental, let's start nibbling away at this

until we really sure where we're going over time.

MARRIS: But it's really important to look back at recent decisions, which aren't exactly on point with respect to transgender rights under the

Constitution, but did provide an expansion. So back the Bostock case in 2020, expanded Title Seven, which relates to employment to include gender

identity. So, you see some of the arguments being raised in these -- this particular appeal. They're similar.

They're saying that transgender rights look back at the Supreme Court precedent, it's covered under the 14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause,

and this would not be treating transgender children equally to others. And so, looking back at that history, you're right, it's a narrow issue here,

but whatever the decision is, is going to have pretty wide-ranging implications on how that standard applies in the healthcare sphere.

QUEST: So, transgender, the next, Dobbs transgender, the next, Roe v. Wade, the next Obergefell.

MARRIS: Funny enough, the Republican states have been citing Dobbs in thee and their briefs relating to this case because their argument is that this

is something that should be left to legislators on a state-by-state basis when it comes to gender affirming care for those 17 and under.

[16:40:07]

And so, Dobbs is -- if one of the cases that they're using as that framework, because that's a very similar situation in the sense that there

was a constitutional right. That was under Roe v. Wade which was reversed under Dobbs. So, a very strong argument.

QUEST: And we got a whole lot of decisions that even extended the day -- the term if you like for -- that they're going to do next week. So, we've

got extra days, more decisions than you can shake a stick at still to come some big ones.

MARRIS: Definitely. So many big ones, a repeating reading glasses on, so make sure to catch up because they continue to come out. So, we thought

we'd see this week. But now we're extended for another couple of weeks. So, we'll see what happens.

QUEST: Good to have you with us. I'm grateful to you. Thank you very much. I want to show you the mark -- thank you. I want to show you the markets

quickly before I leave you and then give you a final thought or two on exactly where we are. The Dow is up, but the NASDAQ and the S&P 500 are

both low. The NASDAQ quite sharply low and Nvidia has absolutely creamed down six percent for the NASDAQ which is why we're seeing that off so

heavily.

But these are just gains being handed back rather than real losses over overall. So, tech and the rotation out of tech is very much part of it. The

Dow and the Dow 30 all giving that sort of a little bit more encouragement overall on the question of the election uncertainty. Before I leave you

tonight, I just want to give you a final, if you will pause, normally we don't often do but we -- earlier tonight we reported of course about Margot

Friedlander, the woman 102 is now on the cover of Vogue.

Her book and Try To Make Your Life which is what her late mother wrote a note to her. Try to make your life as her mother was carted off by the

Gestapo along with the rest of her family. Margot then faced betrayal, she faced hunger. She was sent to the camps. And she survived and she married

her husband -- her husband, whom she met in the camps. And extraordinarily after living in the U.S. for so many years, she moved back to Berlin.

Why do I tell you all this? When I met Margot Friedlander in Berlin, it was one of the defining moments for me. What a privilege to meet her and to

realize that after all these years, she was still messianic in this idea of lest we forget. And one of the phrases that I now take with me. Besides

lest we forget is the title of her book, I do urge you to read it if you have the opportunity. Try To Make Your Life. It is extraordinary.

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. As always, whatever you're up to, you know, the rest (INAUDIBLE) World of

Wonder.

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