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Quest Means Business

French Lawmakers Vote To Oust Prime Minister Michel Barnier; Coca- Cola Cuts Back On Sustainability Goals; Stowaway On Delta Flight To Paris Returning To The U.S.; Malaysia Airlines Announce New Routes Across Asia; UnitedHealthcare CEO Shot And Killed In New York City; Martial Law Debacle Prompts Outrage In South Korea. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired December 04, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:08]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Closing bell ringing on Wall Street, strong session for the Dow. The market has been up for the whole session

and you can see more than 300 points, never really looked back. I think we're just off the tops for the day and hit the gavel. Go ahead. Go on.

Taking their time here. One -- nicely done it. There we have it.

Firm gavels. Trading is over. The main events of the day that you and I will talk about over the next hour.

A manhunt is underway for the gunman who shot and killed a top chief executive. The police believe the suspect was lying in wait.

France's prime minister has lost a vote of no confidence and now France is in political chaos.

And Coca-Cola once pledged to recycle the equivalent of every plastic bottle. Now, it is backtracking.

Live from New York, Wednesday, December the 4th. I am Richard Quest, and I mean business.

Good evening.

Some breaking news that we've had during the course of the day. A manhunt is underway in New York after the chief executive of UnitedHealthcare was

murdered outside a Midtown Manhattan hotel.

The man who shot him, the murderer remains on the loose. The police are calling the killing of Brian Thompson a brazen targeted attack.

CNN's Josh Campbell is with me.

What happened and do we know why?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, by all accounts, Richard, this appears to be a sophisticated hit job.

You just look at a lot of the attributes that we've learned throughout the day. First, we know that the suspect was essentially lying in wait for

several minutes. He knew when the CEO apparently would be coming towards this area. This was a conference that the CEO was set to attend.

I want to show you some video. This is graphic in nature. This shows the incident where you see the CEO coming into view there. Look behind that

black suburban. You'll see the gunman step out. He raises his gun. It is up on target. He then begins to fire.

Now, we are not going to show you the aftermath, but the CEO then goes down. Interestingly, and I can tell you this as someone who formerly worked

in law enforcement, that what we see is someone who clearly knows how to use a weapon.

At one point, that gun jams, then the shooter, then quickly does a resolution drill where he essentially clears the malfunction on the weapon,

points it back at the CEO. He continues to fire. Sadly, we know that the CEO died from those gunshots.

We also know that this shooter was able to flee and is still at large right now. NYPD continuing to look for this individual. Of course, in the city of

New York, this is an area that is blanketed by surveillance footage and so this is someone who, you know, you could see in some of the images there

that was dressed in a way that would obscure his face. To this point, we haven't heard any indication that they actually know who this individual

was, which finally brings us, Richard, to the investigation into the motive.

We don't yet know why this individual did this. Was this someone who was himself aggrieved? Was this someone who was tasked or hired by someone

else? Authorities don't yet know. It is a mystery. But the first thing they're trying to do is get this person into custody.

QUEST: Josh Campbell with the facts of the event. I am grateful to you, sir. Thank you.

CAMPBELL: You bet.

QUEST: And so, to Charles Ramsey, senior law enforcement analyst for us here at CNN, former Philadelphia Police Commissioner.

You've seen the video. I mean, the poor man was shot in the back. I mean, this was just brazen brutal murder, sir.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it is brazen. It is murder, but it was also a targeted murder.

I mean, when you watch that and from everything we've learned so far, this was not a random killing. The individual was waiting. He had a plan. He

knew what time he would be showing up at the hotel for the conference. He had an escape route planned, apparently.

There is evidence however, that the police have recovered that hopefully can narrow things down and lead them to the killer, a cell phone that was

found in an alley, he took -- after fleeing on foot, he took what's called an e-bike, a city bike, which has a GPS system.

So when he disappeared into Central Park, they'll be able to track exactly where he went through the park. Did he get in a car? Did somebody pick him

up? We don't know the answer to any of that.

And as Josh mentioned, at one point in time when he was handling that gun, it jammed and he was able to clear it pretty quickly. But he left behind

three shell casings, as well as three live rounds and they will certainly test that for touch DNA or fingerprints.

So they have something to work with.

[15:05:04]

QUEST: They have to. They have something to work with, but you know the -- no one deserves this, obviously, but the CEO of a company like

UnitedHealthcare which is a very large healthcare insurer provider in the United States, it is -- again prefacing it with, nobody deserves this, but

it is not like it is a highly controversial industry in a defense sense. People may have grievances about their health insurance, whatever, but it

is going to be quite tricky to determine what this was about, maybe.

RAMSEY: Well, I mean insurance companies can be controversial if they're denying coverage to individuals. Now, we don't know the motive, and it is

certainly too early to get into that.

But it could be something with a grievance against him personally. It could be something involving some kind of insurance issue. They knew this

conference was going on. He is the CEO. Was this the individual who was the aggrieved party? Was it a contract killing? We don't know the answer to any

of that right now.

But certainly, CEOs are high profile and we really need to think about protection, really need to think about their own safety, personal safety

and this is a clear example that it can happen.

QUEST: And you raise that point. I mean, obviously, I have dealt with many, many CEOs who have security, they have quite robust -- and I don't just

mean the Zuckerbergs and the Gateses and Bezos of this world, even further down.

RAMSEY: Right.

QUEST: Any CEO of a large company at some point is being advised to have security in a similar way that their insurance company requires security

for things like kidnap insurance and they have special terms in their contracts that they can't fly commercial and all those sorts of things.

So there will be a review by many companies on the level of protection. Maybe that's a better word than security, protection -- personal protection

-- that these people get.

RAMSEY: I agree with that and part of the investigation, of course, is taking a look to see whether or not there were any threats that were made

either to him or someone toward the company itself.

So, I mean there are a lot of things going on right now in this investigation. They certainly want to track where he went afterwards, but

now, they also want to review video and see how did he get to the scene to begin with? They may pick something up where his face was not covered or

there may be a witness that they need to interview.

When you look at that video, if you look right to the right, there is somebody standing there. That individual took off running, I am told, and

they certainly want to talk to him as well.

So, there is a lot of work that has to be done.

QUEST: I am grateful to you, Commissioner. Thank you very much for joining us, as always. Thank you.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

QUEST: So to France now, where members of the French Parliament have forced the prime minister to submit his resignation and only three months into his

term. Parliament approved a no-confidence motion against Michel Barnier in response to his proposed budget.

As a result, Barnier will now resign and in doing so, plunging France into political chaos and economic uncertainty.

Jim Bittermann joins me now from Paris.

So what do they want? The left doesn't like the budget, the right doesn't like the budget, and Michel Barnier at best was a compromise after the

catastrophic elections. But I am not entirely certain that there is any way out short of Macron going as well.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, at the moment, Macron is safe as far as he is concerned. If he wants the job, he

can stay till 2027. That's how long his term is.

However, you're right about the idea that finding another prime minister may be a difficult task. Michel Barnier was kind of a last minute choice

that took forever to make. All summer long, we waited to see who the prime minister was going to be after that disastrous legislative vote that you

talked about and it was only in September that Michel Barnier was named.

He is known as a compromiser. He negotiated BREXIT for instance, and that sort of thing, and he really did try his best. He negotiated with all the

sides.

In the Parliament today, he did one last pitch for his government and his policies and he had a warning about the dire consequences if the government

were to fall. Here is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHEL BARNIER, FRENCH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): What I am sure, ladies and gentlemen, what I say seriously before you is that this motion

of no confidence at the moment when you are probably preparing this coalition of opposites, this no-confidence motion will make everything more

serious and more difficult.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:10:14]

BITTERMANN: He called it a coalition of opposites, and that's the extreme right and the extreme left got together to come up with 231 votes. It only

took 288 to overturn the government, but 331 people voted against his government and as much as anything else, Richard, I think they were voting

against Emmanuel Macron, but this is not going to bring Macron down unless he wants to retire early.

QUEST: You see, this is the problem because Barnier is actually quite accurate when he says this solves nothing. It doesn't get a budget, it puts

more chaos on the agenda.

So if you assume that the left and the right are not mad, how do they envisage getting out of this situation?

BITTERMANN: Well, there have been some proposals, like having an alternative back and forth, right and left governments, right and left

prime ministers. A lot of it doesn't sound very practical.

Basically, we heard one of the commentators here say that everybody was out to have his own ox gored. I mean, to have his own policy made a part of the

budget and not really thinking about the good of the country.

Barnier argued that, in fact, his budget would have brought down the deficit, it would have brought down the debt of this country. The debt is

just unbelievable. Its 106 percent of GDP of three trillion euros worth of debt and that's what one of the objectives of the budget was, except that

budget is now gone.

QUEST: One final thought, though I mean, whatever one thinks of Michel Barnier, his politics are pretty solid. He is, you know, former

commissioner, former BREXIT negotiator. He has done the big jobs. He is not a radical in that sense.

So if you can't get along with Barnier, who on earth can you get along with?

BITTERMANN: That is -- that is the big question, Richard. There is just not anyone on the horizon and anyone can see that would be as effective a

negotiator as Barnier has been over the years. I mean, he is a very pleasant man. I've interviewed him several times.

He is just -- he is a nice guy. He has low temperature. He is not a shouter.

And if anybody could have pulled this off, I would have thought he would have been the one, but it didn't happen.

QUEST: Absolutely. Actually, charming, just the sort of person you hope to sit next to at dinner. Thank you very much indeed, Jim Bittermann in Paris

for us tonight.

As we continue, South Korea spent barely six hours under martial law -- we were talking about it yesterday, martial law. Now, the repercussions are

going to be far more reaching.

President Yoon is fighting for his job and the success of that seems almost is unlikely as the martial law. Next on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:50]

QUEST: Six in the morning in Seoul, in South Korea. A very good morning to you if you're joining us there.

Opposition lawmakers are going to move to impeach the president over his attempt to impose martial law. The protesters have been filling the streets

of Seoul overnight. They've condemned his actions. They've called for his resignation and the main opposition party says it is formalizing treason

charges against Yoon.

CNN's Ivan Watson has been on the streets of Seoul and had been speaking to the protesters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A night of dramatic confrontation. At South Korea's National Assembly, troops face-

to-face with civilian protesters. A lawmaker challenging a soldier grabbing his gun and shaming him, yelling --

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE speaking in foreign language.)

WATSON (voice over): "Aren't you embarrassed?" Hundreds of troops were deployed here in the predawn hours on Wednesday, some landing by chopper

sent to enforce the shocking declaration of martial law made by President Yoon Suk Yeol late Tuesday night.

But they weren't enough to stop 190 lawmakers, including 18 from Yoon's own party from voting unanimously to overturn the president's decree.

It may have been the shortest period of martial law the world has ever seen.

WATSON (on camera): President Yoon's martial law decree only lasted around six hours. He withdrew it before the sun even came up on Wednesday, and

now, the opposition is calling for his impeachment.

Opposition lawmakers are pushing for a vote to oust the president as early as Thursday while his chief-of-staff and Defense minister have both

submitted their resignations.

Yoon's aborted power play barely affected business in the Korean capital, and at the airport, international flights also faced no disruptions.

But there is anger among some ordinary Koreans.

WATSON (on camera): What would you like to say to president Yoon?

KIM HA-NEUL, PROTESTER: (Bleep) you.

WATSON (on ca): Twenty-four -year-old Kim Ha-neul came here straight after working an all-night shift at a convenience store.

KIM: If you don't speak up as a citizen who lives in Korea, then he will keep repeating the same situation and it will be more harder and harder for

us to deny him as our president.

WATSON (voice over): Calls now for candlelight vigils across the country and a protest march through the capital.

WATSON (on camera): What are you chanting here?

SLYEON AHN, PROTESTER: Yes, yes, to arrest the president.

WATSON: Are you angry at President Yoon?

SLYEON: Yes, yes. because, like martial law it is very, like, serious thing, but he thinks that it is not that serious.

WATSON (voice over): This country's president may face the consequences of his failed attempt to overthrow decades of Korean democracy.

Ivan Watson, CNN, Seoul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Now turning to Ukraine and the US Secretary of State Antony Blinken, says the Biden administration is determined to spend every cent that is

available for funding for Ukraine.

His comments came in his last NATO foreign ministerial as a top diplomat speaking ahead of likely changes in policy under the Trump administration.

The Secretary of State said they aim to give the US and partners that support Ukraine the strongest possible use and hand to use in the year

ahead.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen sat down for an exclusive interview with Russia's deputy Foreign minister in Moscow where he touches on the current threat of

escalation in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SERGEI RYABKOV, RUSSIAN DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER: You know, in NATO, there are a group of people, I would even call them cheerleaders that stand there

and clap and shout and just want big boys in the field to go into this game further and further.

They will be defeated like the US was defeated by the Soviet Union in basketball in 1973.

[16:20:06]

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What does defeat mean then? I mean, do you think that right now, as far as escalation is

concerned, are we in a more precarious place than, for instance, during the Cuban missile crisis?

RYABKOV: Today, I think, the danger of this scenario unfolding should not be underestimated by anyone. We have no comparison. We have no roadmaps. We

have no routines. We have no culture of how to manage this type of situation.

And absence of common sense in many places, absence of sober analysis in different offices in the West is so alarming, we have not lost our senses.

We know what we are talking about. This is something that is clearly a historic moment for everyone and we will not let us be provoked into

anything, irrespective of how many billions of dollars will be burned in this conflict by the US, irrespective of what people at the European Union

believe they should do to support Kyiv, to assist US, we will prevail there. No doubt.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Now Donald Trump's pick to run The Pentagon says he plans to fight like hell to get the job.

Pete Hegseth visited Capitol Hill to win support from Republican lawmakers. He has also pushed back on reports of his past behavior.

He is a former Fox News host, and he has been dogged by allegations of excessive drinking and mistreating women. He denies any wrongdoing.

Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill.

Manu joins me now. Hey, look, I won't hold you to this. I promise you. But what is your gut feeling here?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is going to be difficult, Richard. There is a tough road ahead because there is just a

little margin for error, because all Democrats in the new Senate are expected to vote against Pete Hegseth, meaning that just three Republican

senators is all he can afford in terms of defections.

Four Republican defections means that he would not get the job as Secretary of Defense, and there are more than three Republican senators who have

concerns about this nomination, including Senator Joni Ernst, someone who is a -- someone who survived sexual assault and has been a champion of

efforts to try to change the way that sexual assault claims are handled in the military.

Of course, Hegseth has been accused of sexual assault, something that he has denied. But they just wrapped up a meeting. Richard, 45 minutes, where

the two discussed all of these issues, and I asked her if she is willing to support Pete Hegseth to be Secretary of Defense. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Do you support Mr. Hegseth's nomination.

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): It was a frank and thorough conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And so, as you can just hear there, Richard, did not answer if she does, in fact support him for this post, continuing to say that it was a

frank and thorough conversation.

Other Republican senators, including Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri, said it is not clear to him if Donald Trump wants another Secretary of Defense

given the problems that Hegseth has encountered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): It is a hundred percent clear to me who he wants as Secretary of Defense right now. He will answer all of those and many,

many more under oath if he wants to and if the president wants to -- wants him to.

But I don't -- I don't know what the case is at this point.

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): One of the things I'd love to hear is if he is committed to not drinking. I think if he would -- being familiar with the

problems of alcoholism and the dumb things we do when we drink too much, it would be really nice if he would set that one aside for good, if not at

least for through -- through his term as secretary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that last comment coming from Senator Kevin Cramer, who actually is a Republican from North Dakota who plans to meet in the next hour,

Richard, with Pete Hegseth and Hegseth actually told another Republican senator, the leader of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Roger Wicker,

that if confirmed, he would not drink alcohol given the concerns about those excessive drinking claims, something that he has denied, but

reassuring senators he would not drink if confirmed.

QUEST: Good grief, man, has it really come to this? Where people are having to give pledges that they won't get trashed if they get the job.

But what is fascinating here, I find, is that the focus that I quite rightly understand is on these serious allegations. But in all of that,

everybody seems to have lost sight of the fact, the man is not qualified arguably, for the job. He has never run anything. He has never been in high

office. He has got no experience of government, but that doesn't seem to be bothering people.

RAJU: Well, that is part of the discussion, no doubt about it. Whether or not he can actually do this job, given how complex it is, how significant

it is, one of the most important positions in all of the US government.

[16:25:01]

And given that he does not have the experience of making policy -- defense policy, yes, he served in the military, but this is a much different

position than serving in the military, and that is the big question that a lot of Republican senators have. What is his vision for the department? And

exactly how would he carry that out? How would he manage this massive personnel -- being in charge of all of that, those are big questions that a

lot of Republicans and Democrats have alike, that undoubtedly hell face in a Senate confirmation hearing early next year if he gets to it.

QUEST: Well, there we go, assuming he doesn't take a drink. Thank you very much, Manu Raju. I am grateful for you on Capitol Hill. Thank you.

As we continue, we are going to talk more about France and the prime minister is being forced to resign. Only three months into his tenure, a

deputy in the French National Assembly joins me to give an opinion and thoughts on why, in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello, I am Richard Quest. There is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. The French Prime Minister Michel Barnier has lost a vote of

no confidence and we are talking to a left wing deputy in the National Assembly.

Coca-Cola is dramatically scaling back its sustainability goals. One author says it is not the first time the company has done so, particularly when it

comes to plastics. We will only drink this and carry on after the news because this is CNN, and on this network, the news always comes first.

The ceasefire between Israel and Lebanese Hezbollah is holding, according to the Secretary of State Antony Blinken. Strikes between the two sides are

putting pressure on the deal, which stipulates a 60-day pause in hostilities.

Millions of people are without power in Cuba after the country's energy grid collapsed. The state-run utilities warning it could take days to fix

the country's Soviet era power stations.

Cuba suffered a near-total blackout in October, and on that occasion it lasted nearly a week.

President-elect Trump says he will nominate Paul Atkins to chair the SEC, the Securities and Exchange Commission. Atkins is a former SEC commissioner

and an advocate of cryptocurrencies.

Mr. Trump has also named Gail Slater to lead the Justice Department's antitrust division. She advised the first Trump administration on tech

policy.

[16:30:20]

So Michel Barnier is being forced to resign after a vote of no confidence when he couldn't get his budget passed. Both left and right combined to

kick him out.

Daniele Obono is a deputy in the French National Assembly. She joins me now from Paris.

I'm grateful to you, ma'am, for joining us. Look, it is difficult, is it not? The left didn't want him, the right didn't want him. He was in a no-

win situation but he has a valid point when he says getting rid of him won't solve anything.

DANIELE OBONO, DEPUTY, FRENCH NATIONAL ASSEMBLY: Sure. But at the same time, he shouldn't have accepted being a member of an organization that

literally lost the election and so he knew what was coming for him. The fact is, it's just one down and now to the next, and the next is Mr.

Macron, because he is the one who put everything into motion. He called the snap election.

And then when the people voted in favor of our coalition, he just denied them the government that they wanted. So now that Barnier is out of the

way, the king is naked, as you could say, and the problem is literally Emmanuel Macron. So we debated at the National Assembly. We managed to

raise a lot of money for the budget, but they wouldn't accept the talk at the National Assembly.

QUEST: Right. OK.

OBONO: So --

QUEST: So if you attempt --

OBONO: Now it's up to him to decide what's next.

QUEST: If you accept -- yes, forgive me. If you accept that France has to be governed, Macron has got a few more years in office. There does need to

be a prime minister. I'm assuming you don't want two or three years of chaos.

OBONO: Sure. But that's something that President Macron should have think about before calling a snap election. And as we said, we are ready. We are

ready to govern this country. We have a candidate to be a prime minister, Lucie Castets, and we showed during the budget debates that we were more

fiscally responsible than Macron because we were able to raise a lot of money and still to be below the 3 percent rule to -- that say we can't go

more than 3 percent of the deficit.

So we were way more fiscally responsible than him. So, yes, as you said, the problem is we have Emmanuel Macron, who is clinging to power. He could

accept our government or he could resign because this is still possible. We don't have to go through months and three years of chaos. The chaos that he

provoked with his policies over the past years and now with the snap election. He could resign and it will solve the problem for France and the

French people.

QUEST: Yes, but you don't believe, though, or I don't think anybody thinks, at least in the short term, he is going to resign. I do worry that with

Ukraine at a particularly difficult position with Russia, a new administration in Washington, Germany's politics almost as much as a mess

as yours with Scholz and elections next year, is this the time to be playing with the dynamite of French politics?

OBONO: First of all, I can argue that nobody expected the snap election to happen. Nobody expected us to win the election. Everybody predicted that

the far-right will win. So, maybe, you know, in France, we say that nothing is impossible when our people rise. And you shouldn't believe that we can't

change things and make a revolution. We are a people that is very angry at the time.

So -- and the second point, I totally agree with you. But again, there's a man who decided that it would take the entire political system at the time

when we need our country to be a leader for peace.

QUEST: Right.

OBONO: And to play an important role in the world. So again, the problem is Macron and getting rid of him is the solution for us and for Europe

actually.

QUEST: Right.

OBONO: And our standing on the international scene.

[16:35:00]

QUEST: I'm grateful for your time this evening. It's late in Paris. Thank you for taking time to come and talk to us. Thank you.

Now, Coca-Cola is scaling back its goals when it comes to plastic and recycling. So if I look carefully, this bottle does say I'm 100 percent

recycled bottle except the cap and label. The company now says it will take some time for that to become the norm. Its new goal is to use 30 percent to

45 percent of recycled material in packaging by 35. Coke said in a statement the decision was based on identified challenges.

Now, Julia Chatterley spoke to James Quincey a few years ago back in Davos, then the plans were pretty ambitious.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES QUINCEY, CEO, COCA-COLA: By 2030, we want to collect one bottle or can back for every one we sell. It really can be done and we already have

countries in our business system where the collection is over 90 percent, and we will very soon have the first country where all the packaging is

made from 100 percent recycled plastic. It's doable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Oliver Franklin-Wallis is the author of "Wasteland: The Dirty Truth about What We Throw Away and Where It Goes and Why It Matters." He is with

me now.

Thank you, sir. I'm grateful for your time. So you're not surprised by this, are you? You're expecting to some extent because Coke has a bit of a

history of backtracking in your view.

OLIVER FRANKLIN-WALLIS, AUTHOR, "WASTELAND": Yes, unfortunately not, Richard. Thanks for having me. By my count, this is the fifth time that

Coca-Cola has done something like this since the mid-1990s when it first started making big environmental pledges about recycled content and its

packaging.

And to be honest every time they make these promises there's a big splashy announcement. A couple of years go by, the economy gets into trouble or the

company needs to boost its earnings and they quietly abandon it. So this is unfortunately the latest in a long and sorry pattern.

QUEST: The suggestion there is that in some extent, you know, they knew when they made the pledge that they might not be able to keep it. Or are

you saying basically that, even worse, they never had any intention of keeping it?

FRANKLIN-WALLIS: Well, I don't want to over -- I don't want to overstate things too much. I mean, Coca-Cola has done some important steps in the

last few years. You mentioned one which is in the U.K. Everything under half a liter is now supposedly produced by 100 percent recycled plastic

even though that's a misnomer. We won't go into it. But this is quite a big step back.

QUEST: Right.

FRANKLIN-WALLIS: And to be honest, it reflects that Coca-Cola is, according to Break Free from Plastic, the largest plastic group producer -- the

largest plastic polluter, sorry, in the world, right? They are producing a prodigious amount of plastic, about 5.97 million tons per year, about 137

billion plastic bottles. What they are able to do in the market is therefore huge, right? So when they talk about challenges, they have a huge

amount of weight.

So when they say, oh, the recycling market isn't there, they actually are choosing not to make the investment that they previously were committed to

and scaling that back. Go ahead.

QUEST: So on this question of the change in environment, I mean, with a biggie, in a sense, Donald Trump's election, a shift in policies, a

rethinking, a downgrading if you will, do you think that others will follow where Coke now leads in, I'll be charitable since I was not charitable in

my first question. I'll be charitable, and maybe reformulating their commitment?

FRANKLIN-WALLIS: Well, I think that unfortunately this is the start of a pattern. We're starting to see other very large plastic producers doing the

same thing, watering down their commitments, moving dates further back into 2030, 2035, 2050. So we are seeing that. I think if we go by the last Trump

administration, you know, spent a lot of time watering down environmental protections at the EPA, I think that the new appointment, Zeldin at the

EPA, is likely to do similar.

And they've particularly mentioned that they want to supercharge the U.S. as an energy producer. That's code word for amping up oil and gas

production, which means that the price of virgin plastic, the price of raw plastic, is going to fall through the floor. And that means it's going to

be even cheaper for companies like Coca-Cola to make things new, whereas recycled plastic, because you've got to collect it, you've got to clean it,

you've got to sort it and remake it is a bit more expensive.

So for them it's about profit margins. Coca-Cola is already making a pretty healthy profit margin every year, and as they proudly say in their

financial statements, they've increased their dividend every year for 61 years in a row or something crazy like that. So they don't need to do this

but I think it's an opportunistic move by one of the world's largest plastic producers to unfortunately prioritize their profits over the rest

of our well-being.

QUEST: I'm grateful for your time, sir. We'll talk more in the future on this one. Thank you.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight. She snuck aboard a Delta Airlines flight to Paris and now the 57-year-old Russian stowaway is on her way back to New

York.

[16:40:02]

She's in the custody of the French authorities. A live report from JFK in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: In the next hour, a Russian woman who stowed away on a flight from New York to Paris last week should be back on U.S. soil. The 57-year-old

has been named by the French authorities as Svetlana Dali. She's on a Delta Airlines flight to JFK. She's escorted by two French security officials.

Two previous attempts of returning her had to be abandoned. Her flight as you can see at the moment is making its way across the Atlantic. There you

are. She's on a -- just sort of over the U.S. now landing in New York very shortly.

Polo Sandoval joins me from JFK.

So, well, what have we got? She'll arrive and what happens immediately into U.S. custody, one might assume?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Richard, that flight should be on final approach in just a few moments ahead of its landing here at JFK. We

actually have a colleague on board. She reports that Dali is, quote, "calm and compliant" throughout the course of the entire flight.

Now to answer your question in terms of what we can expect afterwards, there's a team of federal agents here at JFK that are preparing to speak to

her, to interview her. To be clear, she is not currently in custody. She's not detained. Those two security officials that are flanking her on the

flight, they are simply there as a precaution given her history. When this past Saturday, during the first attempt to bring her back to the United

States, where she holds a green card, she created a disturbance and that led to her being removed off the plane.

Yesterday, Delta wanted no part of flying her given that experience so obviously some precautions were taken that security is there and now they

want to make sure that doesn't happen again. So that explains how we got here in the first place. After this conversation happens between her and

federal agents, it's expected that eventually they will decide whether or not any charges will be filed.

There is a myriad of factors here that they're going to consider, exactly what possible alleged crimes may have been committed here. Even her state

of mind at the time that she managed to duck or at least go around to either security checkpoints last Tuesday. All of that will be considered

when they decide -- Richard.

QUEST: We don't really know why she suddenly became compliant on this flight back, and it caused such a ruckus on the previous two, do we?

SANDOVAL: No. I've had that question from the very beginning. I've also tried to find out if maybe this behavior may lead to the revocation of her

green card, for example.

[16:45:08]

Those are questions that are still lingering right now, but also, one thing that I've been trying to find out is what's potentially drawing her to

France. A couple of years ago, she petitioned for asylum in France and she was denied. So I think that's also a lingering question here. But then

really just how she was able to do this, Richard.

You fly all the time. You get in the wrong line and you almost feel like you're yelled at, and so I think it's going to be very interesting to find

out exactly how she was able to go around the individual that puts people in the right lanes.

QUEST: Right. Now the key here will be, was it -- did she spot a loophole and was able to capitalize on it in terms of the way she did it or was she

just bloody lucky?

SANDOVAL: And it seems that she was quite lucky, especially when there were millions of Americans that were traveling because this was the Tuesday

before Thanksgiving. Now the TSA is being very clear that after that initial breach in security, when she went around the TSA officer that

typically would check your boarding pass she was still subjected to the normal searches that you and I would go through where your luggage goes

through the x-ray machine, you go through the magnetometer.

So there was no concern that she may have had any sort of weapons on her. But then Delta is certainly going to be conducting a review because the

second breach happened at the gate when she was able to blend in with a large group of passengers boarding that flight. And it wasn't until the

plane was in the air that Delta personnel then discovered her on the flight.

QUEST: Is it cold outside at Kennedy tonight?

SANDOVAL: There's a very cold New York night that awaits her.

QUEST: And you. Thank you, sir. I'm grateful. Thank you.

Coming up in just a moment, the captain, the head of Malaysia Airlines, there he is, sir, on efforts to modernize the group as it plans new planes

and new routes. We'll be with him in just a moment. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Malaysia Airlines has taken delivery of its first Airbus A330neo, part of the company's move to modernize the fleet, reduce the costs and

indeed in doing so open up new long haul routes across Asia. The airline is launching flights between KL to the Maldives, to Thailand, to Vietnam and

to India, and indeed strengthening routes, of course, elsewhere. Australia on the horizon, too.

Captain Izham Ismail is the managing director of Malaysia Airlines. The captain is with me now.

[16:50:03]

Sir, it is good to see you again. Always grateful to talk to you and to see you in London tonight. And I think the core role for something like MH is

where you position the airline, against the Gulf carriers with obviously one world, but how do you position it for growth?

CAPT. IZHAM ISMAIL, GROUP MANAGING DIRECTOR, MALAYSIA AIRLINES: Hi, Richard. Thank you for having me here and it's good to see you as well.

Malaysia Airlines is positioned to serve Asia Pacific and we take pride in being a gateway to Asia. No doubt we have stiff competition with Singapore

Airlines and the Gulf carriers. Malaysia Airlines has previously has marketed and marketed ourselves in the wrong segment over the last two

decades.

And we're clear today, after the last three years, that our segment is premium and we have been under investing ourselves for the last two

decades, and we are investing now. As you can see, we've just received our first 330neo, Herringbone seats, as what we spoke about a couple of years

ago, Richard.

QUEST: Right. So are you looking at -- when you say premium, do you mean premium business, premium leisure or a mix, a yield mix of both?

ISMAIL: A mix of both, Richard.

QUEST: Now, if we take, for example, let's say, for example, Australia, and you know, the competition is intense. I'll give you a good example. Turkish

Airlines, the last thing you need is Turkish arriving to take some passengers onto Australia as they're planning to do. And very cleverly,

they decided to send Melbourne via Singapore and they're sending Sydney by KL, which is a bit of a headache.

ISMAIL: Precisely, Richard. It is a really quite a headache for us, but to a certain degree we believe strongly that our market into Australia is

still strong. The demand on our product is still robust. We've recently launched Paris and Paris is one of the point of sale that we will feed into

Australia. We are planning looking at increasing our capacity into Australia, to Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide three times a day now, Richard.

QUEST: Wow.

ISMAIL: Yes. And the Australian market has been very fantastic. It's given us about 6 percent yield better than 2019.

QUEST: So if you take the airline and bearing in mind its somewhat difficult past that we don't need to dwell on. If you take the airline the

future of MH, it reminds me of, you know, that famous line I think Oscar Wilde talk of its death has been greatly exaggerated. People have been

questioning about this survival of MH. Can you say that the airline is now sustainably profitable, or at least sustainable?

ISMAIL: Richard, to be fair and to be transparent, it is still early, early days and we are very confident over the last two years or three years post-

COVID we have got a good traction on credibility and we're very clear of the future of Malaysia Airlines for the next five to 10 years and the

strategy that we put in place to be gateway of Asia Pacific and we have managed our costs well. For the last -- we've shifted our network flow

differently. Over the last pre-2018, Richard, revenue contribution from international market was at about 45 percent. Domestic market was about 55

percent.

Today as I speak over the last two and a half years, our international flow contributes to 90 percent of our top line revenue, and 10 percent are

domestic. And Richard, we are very clear the low cost carriers are not our competitors. We have an aspiration to bring back Malaysia Airlines back to

the premium stage and we know --

QUEST: Right. But on this point, just sorry, just on this point, is it sixth freedom traffic where everybody comes in and everybody goes out? Or

is your priority to bring people to Malaysia and then encourage onward or sixth freedom traffic after?

ISMAIL: Yes, Richard, two guiding principles. First and foremost, Malaysia Airlines needs to be part of the nation building, economic enabler for the

country, and two, Malaysia Airlines must stand on its own feet commercially. Yes, when we talk about that and it will be a network flow

from Europe to Australia, as an example, but then we are not doing justice to the country, Malaysia.

We do have products like bonus side trip and so forth that we entice customers to visit Malaysia. So together with the six freedom and providing

a free passage to the domestic Malaysia I guess that's the winning formula for us.

[16:55:02]

QUEST: Well, I say bring back the old jingle that Malaysia made so popular. "Malaysia, Truly Asia." You know, there's an entire generation of people

that remember it.

ISMAIL: Yes. Yes.

QUEST: I'll join --

ISMAIL: And don't forget the satay, Richard.

QUEST: Oh, well, satay. My first experience of satay was on one of your planes. Good to see you, Captain. You're doing good work at the Malaysia

Airlines. Thank you. And I'm grateful you've taken time to join us tonight.

ISMAIL: Thank you, Richard, for having me tonight. Thank you.

QUEST: Thank you, sir. Thank you. Malaysia Airlines.

And we -- you remember, "Malaysia, Truly Asia." Well, there we go. "Profitable Moment" after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment," I do like the Meta AI tool. I'm quite a fan of it. So I asked it for famous quotes on democracy, and it comes up

with obviously the famous Winston Churchill one. Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others, which is then opposite with

it, the best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter, followed by Michelle Obama saying, democracy is not just

about voting, it's about participation, informed, et cetera, and holding leaders accountable.

Now try telling that to people of course in Germany and now tonight in France, where another government has collapsed or is on the peril of.

That's the one of Michel Barnier. The right-wing shift that's taking place in many countries. The left-wing shift that took place in the United

Kingdom this year. The sharp right shift that took place in the United States. And that's what it's really all about.

What seems like an absolute mess of pottage and sewage actually is really democracy in action. And what we've learned over many years in many ways

is, as Churchill said, whatever else we've got at our stool, it really is probably the best form that we can do at least if we all want to be able to

be on television and say this, or you want to write to me and say that, or basically tell me what you think of me. All of which you can do quite

nicely in democracy at the moment. And long may it last. As for the French government, that's a different matter.

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. I'll see

you tomorrow.

END