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Quest Means Business

Markets Plunge After Trump Declines To Rule Out Recession; Carney Vows To Keep Retaliatory Tariffs On The U.S.; Kukies: Europe Has To Look Out For Itself On Defense; Eutelsat Stock Rises Amid Doubts Over Musk's Starlink; Stocks Plunge After Trump Refuse To Rule Out Recession. Aired 4- 5p ET

Aired March 10, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:09]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell about to ring on Wall Street. The day coming to an end and the market off

very sharply. They're smiling at the Stock Exchange. I am not sure there is a huge amount to smile about. Bring the misery of the day to a close, sir,

by hitting the closing bell. We've got a one, two, three. This is what we are down.

We are off the lows of the day. The low had been down 1,100 points, off two percent for the Dow. Look at the triple stack and you'll see a slightly

worse picture. The NASDAQ absolutely clobbered, still off the lows of the day, but down four percent overall.

Tonight, I'm live in London. It is Monday. It is March the 10th amongst this sea of misery. I am Richard Quest and I mean business.

Good evening.

Tonight, Wall Street has rendered its verdict after President Trump declined to rule out a recession. The Dow lost more than 900 points, and

the S&P is down three percent, the NASDAQ, off four percent.

The President told Fox News to look away from the markets when he gave an interview that aired on Sunday. He said the economy is going through some

changes as he tries to rebalance U.S. trade.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK HOST, MORNINGS WITH MARIA": Are you expecting a recession this year?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I hate to predict things like that. There is a period of transition because what we are doing is

very big. We are bringing wealth back to America. That's a big thing.

And there are always periods of -- it takes a little time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Kevin Liptak is at the White House; Matt Egan is in New York. Let's start with you, Matt.

This is not the big crack, this is a fissure, if you like, in the market, but it is coming across several days and the worries are growing.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Richard, no doubt. The worries are growing. Clearly, confidence among investors about this economy, it has been shaken

in a very big way and it is stunning how fast this happened.

It was just three weeks ago that the S&P 500 was at all-time highs, and now we see this decline of almost nine percent from those record highs and a

lot of this is being driven over confusion about the President's chaotic trade agenda.

I talked to a former New York Fed President, Bill Dudley today and he said, look, it is too early to forecast a recession. But he said, yes, the risks

have gone up and he argued that some of this has been self-inflicted.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL DUDLEY, FORMER NEW YORK FEDERAL RESERVE PRESIDENT: Terrorists have two effects. One, they push up prices and two, they push down growth. The Trump

administration is making things worse by this sort of on again, off again approach. So the uncertainty level is higher than it needs to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: And all of this uncertainty, of course is spilling over into financial markets. Market veteran, Ed Yardeni, he told me that the stock

market is losing confidence in the policies of Trump 2.0, and he warned that at some point there could be a real economic impact here as consumers

start to tune in to all of this market turmoil and potentially decide to spend less money -- Richard.

QUEST: Kevin, look, the President says he is not interested in the stock market and if we take him at his word, in a sense, if he is going for a

bigger picture, he will believe that in the long term, things will turn around, but the Republican Party must be concerned, obviously, with what is

happening.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and I should say, no one here at the White House even takes the President at his word that he is

not watching the stock market. This is historically been something that he uses as a barometer for his own success in office.

When the market is doing well, he has not stopped short of rallying behind it. And so I think when the President says he is not paying attention to

the stock market, it is something of a tell. But obviously, we will see what the President has to say.

I should note, we sort of expected to see the President about an hour ago, signing executive orders in the White House. We didn't see him do that and

I think it is probably no surprise that they didn't have the President come out and speak while the markets were essentially tanking.

We could now hear from him now that the markets have closed, and it should be interesting to see how he characterizes all of this, because what he has

said all along is that Americans should expect what he calls a disruption. And I don't know if the President is necessarily taking into account the

disruption that has already happened in investor's pocketbooks.

So we will see exactly what he has to say.

QUEST: Matt, this is entirely reasonable.

[16:05:10]

I mean, at the end of the day, everything that you and I have ever talked about in our journalism is that markets like certainty, investors want

certainty. There does not seem to be a grand plan here other than chaos.

EGAN: Yes, I think that the market reaction here has been pretty rational as the uncertainty around trade policy has gone higher and higher. We've

seen the stock market go lower and lower, and that makes a lot of sense.

I do think that we should tap the brakes a little bit on this idea of a potential recession, because we know the economy was growing as recently as

the end of last year. The economy was adding jobs in January and in February and we also know that the economy, it has been very resilient in

recent years, right?

I mean, it had to go through the supply chain chaos, $5.00 gasoline prices, the Fed's war on inflation. There was the regional banking crisis of two

years ago that is almost easy to forget that it happened, but it did and that was a real issue.

And after each of those episodes, the economy continued to grow. But clearly, Richard, it is facing another test right now, and it is being

driven in large part over uncertainty about policy in Washington.

QUEST: Matt and Kevin, I am grateful to you both. Thank you.

We are talking about the signs. When we talk about a recession, you bear in mind that actually what underpins it, of course, is the economic data, the

data that shows you how the economy is slowing down, that eventually could become a recession.

So let's call them the canaries in the coal mine. The first signs of trouble, the data that tells economists that there will be a slowdown,

because that GDP number is merely a caricature of what else has come before. So let's talk about Consumer Confidence. We've had numbers on

Consumer Confidence.

The New York Fed says consumers are now expecting higher unemployment and inflation. And therefore, they are slowing down the spending. If that slows

down the spending, then economy starts to slow down as well.

New home sales fell very sharply, down 10.5 percent in January. That could be a significant move if that continues out for construction and indeed for

banking, et cetera, and then if you just talk about manufacturing, the ISM survey came in lower than expected last month. Anything below 50 is a

contraction.

These are, if you will, the plumbing, the canaries.

Julia is with me. Julia Coronado, the President of Macro Policy Perspectives.

Nothing here says there is a recession in the way, but if the totality of all the incoming data does suggest that a slowdown is happening, whether it

goes into recession is somewhat waiting to be seen.

JULIA CORONADO, PRESIDENT, MACROPOLICY PERSPECTIVES, LLC: Absolutely. And you've highlighted the multiple dimensions of uncertainty and those are not

easing up.

So we know what we know is that the multiple fronts of policy uncertainty and disruption are leading to anxiety amongst businesses and consumers and

sentiment isn't always a leading indicator of spending and actual decision making, but we don't see any let up in that uncertainty.

So it is just a very difficult environment for businesses to make, CapEx and hiring decisions, and what do you do? You wait and see, and that tends

to slow the economy.

QUEST: Right, and one of the issues, of course, is the economy. Despite what the President says, the economy was doing really well. Inflation was

down, unemployment was down. Interest rates were coming down. Yes, if you want to talk about some macro grand economic vision of the U.S., the

deficit was too high and the terms of trade and the trade balance was off.

But that could have been addressed in a less violent or aggressive fashion.

CORONADO: Indeed. There are multiple ways to address the fiscal unsustainability over time, and in fact, as you note, actually, the deficit

dynamics were not deteriorating. They had been stabilizing. They had improved from the pandemic and then stabilized because the economy was so

robust, profits were high, incomes were solid, generating revenues.

And this. I think, one of the canaries that is going to be very challenging for the Trump administration. A lot of their efforts are around containing

the fiscal situation, but Richard, you and I know that one thing that's terrible for the deficit is a recession.

You start to lose the revenues, the revenue side of the equation, if you cut too much and too aggressively on the cost side of the equation, it is a

delicate balance.

QUEST: The long -- I guess if I talk about macroeconomic change that leads to a recession, but ultimately restructures the economy on a much better

footing, I think of Thatcherism in the 1980s. Arguably, Gerhard Schroeder in Germany, you think of Reaganomics, all of which did root and branch

surgery on the on their country's economies.

[16:10:42]

Why is this different?

CORONADO: Well, because I think it remains to be seen whether it is different. What we are ere seeing in the policy approach is a lack of

vision.

So, for example, we all knew that there was a vision on narrowing trade deficits, reshoring some activity, but we are going after our biggest

trading partners. The U.S. is going after Canada and Mexico in ways that aren't directly tied to particular industries that we are wanting to bring

back or re-shore.

So, it is very difficult to see what is the vision here for the industries that we are trying to address or the partnerships that we are trying to

modify or renegotiate.

We are really going after our closest friends, both on a foreign policy level, as well as a trade level and that feels a bit profound, like a more

of a profound change without the clear vision of what we are trying to achieve here.

QUEST: I knew there was a reason we needed to speak to you tonight, and you've just given us the succinct clarity that we needed.

Thank you, Julia. I am very grateful to you. Thank you.

So to Canada, where the next Prime Minister says he won't back down in a trade war with the United States. The Liberal Party has chosen Mark Carney.

You'll be familiar, of course, former Governor of the Central Bank of Canada and the Bank of England. He will replace Justin Trudeau as the Prime

Minister in the coming days.

He says he will leave in place the retaliatory tariffs against the U.S. He told the party, in his words, "In trade, as in hockey, Canada will win,"

and he struck a similar tone. You'll remember, Mark Carney joined me the day he announced his candidacy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK CARNEY, INCOMING CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: We are the U.S.' largest client. We import more than China, the U.K., France, Japan combined from

the United States. We are the largest client of 35 of the 50 U.S. states.

So it is very important to come to a resolution on that. However, if the U.S. is going to change fundamentally the rules of the game, if they are

going to rip up the trading agreement, which they have started to do, we've got a lot of strengths. We have other options. It will take some time to

develop those.

But, we are resolute. We will pursue those and move in a direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Paula is with me. Paula in Ottawa.

Paula, you know, it is tempting to sort of say, look, he is a political novice, never held office in elected office. But the reality is he has done

every crisis, financial crisis. He sat at the top table, he has held the hands and guided the policy of the great financial crisis, of Brexit and

all of these things.

And he is as much of a politician to his core as anybody who has ever been elected.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST AND CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and perhaps more difficult, one would argue, because think about the halls of power

that this man has actually been in. I will caution, though, Richard, that as well as he has done in this liberal leadership and the fact that the

polls here in Canada have come up, it will be a very tough election.

And before mark carney can do any of the tinkering, or perhaps more than that with the Canadian economy, he must convince Canadians that he

understands where they are coming from, their problems, and where they want their country and their economy to go.

He has found an excellent companion in Donald Trump. It really gives him the nationalism, the profile, the platform that so many Canadians seem to

be responding to right now and he will continue to do that. And you made the excellent point, Richard, and I am so glad that you interviewed him on

the first day of his candidacy.

He can stand there and he can say, I have been there and I have done that. When I say I can deliver economically, I mean it.

QUEST: Paula, the way he now moves forward is crucial because he said he is going to have a general election. He has to have a general election. He has

chosen to have it sooner rather than later. He is not a member of Parliament himself.

If the election were held tomorrow, who would win?

[16:15:06]

NEWTON: The answer to that is we don't know. And why? Because at one point in time, the Liberals -- can you imagine that on the day that Donald Trump

was inaugurated, Richard, the liberals had less than a one percent chance of winning in this election.

Now, Justin Trudeau was still the leader, but they knew another leader would be elected. Now, the chances have gone up to 37 percent and likely to

go up further in the next few days.

This is a real contest. I can't predict who is going to win, and I can tell you right now, no one in this country can. This is going to be a hard

fought election. One of the most important things coming up, Richard, that Canadians will be looking for, is that first phone call with Donald Trump,

how he handles himself. And, you know, Donald Trump will speak of that call right afterwards, whether he posts it on Truth Social or whatever.

And Canadians will be looking to see, is this the measure of a man that can stand up to Donald Trump and still make good deals for us going forward.

QUEST: Paula, I am grateful. Thank you so much. Joining us from Ottawa. Busy month ahead for you.

In a moment, I am talking to the German Finance Minister who tells me easing the debt rules to increase defense spending is absolutely necessary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JORG KUKIES, GERMAN FINANCE MINISTER: Europe has to look out for itself in terms of strengthening the European pillar of NATO, and for that we will

need financial resources.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:18:53]

QUEST: The German Finance Minister tells me that no one in Europe can sit back on Defense spending. I spoke to Jorg Kukies for the second time this

year. We first spoke back in Davos in January, and since then, of course, quite a lot has changed.

Friedrich Merz has emerged as the next likely chancellor of Germany, and he plans to ease the long standing rules on debt that would allow considerably

more deficit spending for defense.

It is all as Europe is increasingly distrustful of Donald Trump and the commitment to NATO and Ukraine.

So the Finance Minister has to put it all together and talk about the changes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KUKIES: We have certainly seen that the topic that we discussed in Davos, namely Europe, has to look out for itself, has gotten more and more

prominent and I think nobody in Europe now believes that that we can afford to sit back and relax in terms of our Defense spending, our effort of

strengthening the European pillar of NATO and the likelihood of us increasing our Defense spending further is very high.

[16:20:05]

QUEST: Do you support the plan of the likely incoming chancellor to dramatically increase? And indeed, of course, to shift the fiscal rules of

Germany that have been the bedrock for as long as most people can remember? Do you support that?

KUKIES: Sure. I've been part of the discussions, so it is all very well thought out. And as I said, Europe has to look out for itself in terms of

strengthening the European pillar of NATO, and for that we will need financial resources.

QUEST: I was in Berlin last week, and people, you know, people have talked about Germany needing to find its footing again, Germany needing to get on

the front foot. You talk about the infrastructure.

Fred Pleitgen, who I am I am sure you know, is our correspondent there, he talked about often people are seeing a crisis of confidence in Germany.

Do you now think that these measures will, to a large extent, alleviate that crisis of confidence and allow Germany to play a leading role in these

changes and future of Europe?

KUKIES: Well, I think the answer is yes, but we also need, impulses for growth outside of the fiscal impulse. And just on Saturday, the CDU, the

CSU and the SPD, so the parties negotiating on the new government published a paper that will form the basis of coalition talks and that paper

addresses a lot of the issues outside of the fiscal space that are hindering our growth.

We are resolved to cut red tape. We are resolved to fixing our shortage of skilled labor. We are resolved to set tax incentives for corporates to

invest more in our country, and to engage more in research and development.

We have a clear plan to reduce energy costs, both the production of energy and the transport of energy through our grids by $0.05 per kilowatt hours.

QUEST: Right.

KUKIES: So in combination, the fiscal impulse with the structural initiatives to tackle the four central points that companies have given us

as hindrances to growth, I think that will be a strong impulse to growth.

QUEST: Yes, what hat about the Greens? The Greens have sort of said they may torpedo the whole thing. They don't like the cuts and they're not sure

it is the right way and the increases et cetera. Can you get or can you get a deal without the Greens, I guess is the blunt question?

KUKIES: No, I mean the Green Party is certainly important to get the two- thirds majority and it is their absolute right in a negotiation to say what they are concerned about and to introduce points into a negotiations.

QUEST: Well, I will rephrase the question then. Can you accommodate those legitimate concerns? And if you can't accommodate them, then you're in

trouble. Well, you're going to have to, because as you just said, you need them for the two-thirds.

KUKIES: Well, as I said, they are -- the points that they raise are legitimate, so I am firmly confident that it will be possible to find an

agreement between the parties who are necessary for the two-thirds majority.

QUEST: And what about you, sir? Do you see a role for yourself post whatever happens next? Have you decided what you're going to do?

KUKIES: The inevitable question that I cannot answer because positions in government are always the very last thing at the end of a coalition

negotiation that are discussed. So I have no comment on that topic yet.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: We shall watch and wait and report.

Hundreds of flights have been canceled across Germany today, as workers have staged a 24-hour strike. The walkout is targeting major German hubs

including Hamburg, Frankfurt and Berlin.

This is the departures board at Berlin, at Brandenburg, cancellations across the board. Fred Pleitgen was there and filed this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The departures hall here at Berlin Brandenburg International Airport is pretty much a

ghost town. You can see over there that what would normally be bustling areas with many people trying to reach their flight right now is pretty

much empty. And if we look at the main departures board here at Berlin Brandenburg International, you can see that literally every single flight

has been canceled.

Now, here in Berlin, that means a couple of hundred flights that are affected. However, all of this is much bigger. It is going on at all major

airports here in Germany because the union has called for a major strike by ground staff.

[16:25:05]

Now, all of this also includes the main hubs here in Germany, which is of course, Frankfurt and also Munich. That has a lot of the international and

transatlantic flights going from there.

In total, the Association for Airports here in Germany says that more than 3,000 flights will be affected and around half a million passengers, so

this is certainly massive, and the airlines and also the authorities here in Germany say that if you are looking on Monday to travel either to or

from Germany by plane, you can pretty much forget about it, at least on this day.

They say the thing to do is get in touch with the airline that you're traveling with as early as possible, as fast as possible, and ask them if

there are any other viable options, or also possibly what options in the next couple of days there might be.

All of this, of course, is set to cause disruption, not just here in Germany, but it is, of course, the biggest country in Western Europe, and

so all of this can spill over into other countries in Western Europe as well.

All of this is happening because of a walkout that was called for by the Trade Services Union, which also represents public workers here in Germany.

They want significantly more money, however, politicians here in this country say at this point in time for Germany with a bad economy right now,

that simply isn't possible.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN at the Berlin Brandenburg Airport.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: What a busy day it has been, one way or the other.

The magnificent seven stocks, the seven are at the center of today's market selloff. All right, let's look at them. What was NVIDIA? Off five.

Microsoft three, Tesla. 15 percent. How on earth does one make sense of all of that?

We shall do what we can after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest.

We have a lot more to get through. We are going to be joined by the CEO of the French satellite company, Eutelsat. Its share price jumped 400 percent

last week, and maybe it could replace Elon Musk's Starlink in Ukraine.

And five years on from the pandemic, Richard Edelman, always good to have him here to discuss COVID's legacy on the economy.

Before that, the news because this is CNN and on this network, the news always comes first.

[16:30:19]

Syria's new government says it has completed a military operation against loyalists to Bashar al-Assad. An independent watchdog estimates around 800

people died in the fighting to make it the worst violence the country has seen since Assad was overthrown. Eyewitnesses say somersault loyalists were

executed in the field.

The U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is in Saudi Arabia ahead of Tuesday's critical talks to end Russia's war with Ukraine. Mr. Rubio met

the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and they're holding discussions also with Ukrainian officials tomorrow. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy

is Riyadh and he will not attend the talks.

President Trump says the arrest of a Palestinian activist by immigration officers is the first of many to come. Mahmoud Khalil has attended Columbia

University in New York. He was at the forefront of last year's student protests against the war in Gaza. The source says he's now in a federal

detention facility.

The cracks are showing in the U.S. economy. The market has sold off after President Trump declined to rule out a recession and the Dow was off nearly

900 points, 1100 at the worst of the day. The S&P is often where you can see the numbers, but it was the tech that was hit the hardest. Now it's

back off four percent and the Magnificent Seven. Well, you've got Tesla off the best part of 15 percent. The sharpest drop since 2020. NVIDIA are off

five percent.

Sam's with me. Sam Stovall, gosh, we need you tonight, Sam. Chief Investment Strategist at CFRA Research. I mean, it all makes sense when you

think of the uncertainty that the market is facing, both on trade, on foreign policy, but what will it take to stabilize these prices?

SAM STOVALL, CHIEF INVESTMENT STRATEGIST, CFRA RESEARCH: Well, Richard, I think that we are in what I would call a manufactured correction. Meaning

that it's because of the policy and the statements made by the President and the current administration. It is increased the uncertainty that

business leaders have toward what kind of investments they should make in their companies, what kind of growth prospects they might see for their

marketplaces.

At the same time, because of that, the Atlanta Fed has reduced its forecast for first quarter GDP growth to actually a decline of 2.4 percent. So, the

R word recession has been bantered about.

QUEST: OK. So, let's not worry whether there's a technical recession or not, because that's just a really -- that's a numbers game. I'm more

interested in this manufactured uncertainty that's now there. Eventually it becomes real and the fabric starts to fray because as an earlier guest was

pointing out, we're also talking about an upset, a deep rupture of relations with allies and that could take much longer to repair.

STOVALL: Absolutely, I think that the longer that we go with this trade discord, the deeper the market could end up declining. And as you said,

could take much longer to repair. Many people are now beginning to talk about the Smoot-Hawley tariff of 1930 that exacerbated the Great

Depression. And we're not at that point yet, by any means, but still, it does indicate that, you know, we are in a globe that works with each other

and needs to work with each other. And when those trade walls, trade barriers go up, that really causes businesses to slow down.

QUEST: And you know as well as I do, they go up very fast, they come down very slowly. But here's the question or bearing in mind what the President

might be thinking. He might be thinking, look, just as easily as I've turned on the tap of uncertainty, I can turn it off and everything will

recover. Do you buy into that, that if he suddenly sort of kissed and played nice, it would all be fine again and the market will be back to the

races?

STOVALL: I think that if that were to happen sooner rather than later, yes, that the market is already expecting even deeper declines for the S&P, for

the NASDAQ, et cetera. So should the President decide to call victory now then, I think the market would explode higher. Typically, stocks tend to

pop after a drop, but I think the longer he maintains, in a sense, the pedal on the brake. Then that will make it much harder for this market to

turn around.

[16:35:14]

QUEST: I'm grateful for you, sir. We'll talk many more times I fear or I look forward to but I fear the situations under which, you know what I

mean. I'm looking forward to it --

(CROSSTALK)

STOVALL: I'm look forward to it either way.

QUEST: Thank you very much. Now in a moment, European officials, some of them are growing distressful of Elon Musk's Starlink. We'll talk to

France's Eutelsat on how they're aiming to capitalize on what's taking place.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Shares in the satellite company Eutelsat were up 20 percent on Monday. The French competitor to Starlink has had a strong run of gains as

European officials grow increasingly distrustful of Elon Musk. Musk wrote an X that Ukraine's front line would collapse if Starlink was shut off. Now

the Polish Foreign Minister says his country will look for alternatives, and that includes the potential of a contract.

So, a contract between Starlink and the Italian government is looking perhaps in doubt. Eva Berneke is the CEO of Eutelsat. She's with me from

Washington. Exactly, look, I'm going to put it in blood terms. But how can you Eutelsat act as a replacement or alternative to Starlink?

EVA BERNEKE, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, EUTELSAT: Yes. So, Eutelsat Group is the only other operating Leo constellation in the world next to Starlink.

So today, we do provide capacity to governments and companies across the world. We don't do consumer business, as does Starlink but we do provide

guaranteed capacity in low Earth orbit to both governments and to enterprises including in Ukraine. We do has as good a coverage and a strong

performance across Europe.

[16:40:02]

We have less capacity because we've got a bit fewer satellites than Starlink but we do actually have a fully operational network across Europe

including Ukraine.

QUEST: Are you going around, either overtly or covertly saying, you know, you do need a second option. We are available. You should think about using

us as a European alternative. Is it as blunt as that?

BERNEKE: I think we all can be blunt about a good need for competition and having choice and alternatives. I think in connectivity world, just like

you see in the telecom world, you typically have multiple operators for customers to choose in between. So, I'm quite open and very positive around

providing different solutions into a competitive market. So yes, by all means, customers should have multiple choices, including for Ukraine. So,

it is a very open call for good competition and multiple solutions.

QUEST: The way in which your phone has been ringing off the hook shows my age here, phones don't ring but you know what I mean, in quite that way.

The way in which you've been the inquiries that you're getting, where are they coming from? What sort of companies are asking about what?

BERNEKE: A lot of companies have been asking for multiple solutions. Because most of the distributors that we work with, we don't go direct to

consumer as does Starlink, so we work with the ecosystem and consume and customers out there. It could be telcos, it can be specialized distributors

for aero or for government and for military. And one of them is we're working closely with around Ukraine.

They want alternatives. They want multiple solutions. Sometimes they want to combine them. Sometimes they want to combine them with existing

satellite capacity in geostationary orbit or others. So, they actually want alternatives. I'd say the calling of the hook over the last week, that has

been a lot from Europe who wants to see how far we are, how far, how fast we can provide alternatives.

We're starting to pull out or change the offering in Ukraine. So, a lot of those have been for more government or military uses across Europe. And I

think a lot of Europeans are waking up today to the need for multiple alternatives.

QUEST: Looking -- just looking at your share ownership structure because Eutelsat is, you know, a very different animal, compared to say, Starlink.

And it does have a high proportion of public ownership and also state -- well, public in the wider sense of public investment. Bank investment. Do

you think that gives you a different outlook, a strategic outlook, for a goal of what the company is designed to do, than say, for example, a purely

commercial operation?

BERNEKE: Yes, I do think that our governance and ownership structure is also a strength. We have multiple quite different owners, our largest

shareholder being Bharti Telecom, which is a large Indian and African telecom operator. And this integration into the telecom world is quite

important for us. But then the next two are two European states with France being one, and the U.K. being -- the other one who also are large

shareholders.

But then we also have one of the world's largest shipping companies, and again, that's a potential customer because the maritime world is one of the

big customer segments for satellite connectivity. So, I actually think that our shareholder structure is providing a lot of input to me, both in the

integration into the telecom world, the sovereign interest in this space, but also from an important customer segment as a maritime.

QUEST: I'm grateful you join me. And I'm very glad that the line held up between Washington and me here, somewhat embarrassing, if it hadn't since

what we're talking about. Ma'am. Thank you very much indeed for joining us from Washington, DC. I'm grateful.

BERNEKE: Thank you very much.

QUEST: It's been five years since the pandemic lockdowns went into place all around the world. It's one we've covered without rest on the show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: This is Times Square. Normally it would be packed with commuters but as you can see at this major interchange, there is virtually no one here.

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[16:47:11]

QUEST: In the last 24 hours a day of remembrance in the United Kingdom. It marked the fifth anniversary of the COVID-19 pandemic. And although got on

with life, carried on, it still impacts very much being felt. The latest Edelman Trust Barometer shows that two-thirds of U.S. respondents say the

pandemic made them view business, government and wealthy more negatively.

Most young adults say it's given them more financial anxiety and a quarter say the pandemic made them decide not to have kids. The true long-term

effects are still taking shape and history can offer some lessons on the transformative power. Now to -- forgive us, we're going to go back a long

way but I think the principle holds. 700 years ago, the bubonic plague brought Europe to its knees, and the resulting labor shortage gave workers

the upper hand.

The minimum wages, better conditions. Attempts to crack down on wages led to a revolt, and the rest, of course, as they say, is history. Richard

Edelman is the CEO of Edelman. Delighted we're both here in London. Delighted to trust you put together Trust Barometer. This pandemic. These

findings are fascinating. What makes it -- what you find the most interesting?

RICHARD EDELMAN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, EDELMAN: First of all, Gen Z is still in the midst of the pandemic. When you think about 70 percent say

they were deeply affected by it, 60 percent say that they still have financial anxiety. They also feel isolated. So that really shocked me, that

they're the only generation that hasn't snapped out of it. The second is that, in fact, trust in business has diminished.

Remember, in Davos, I told you only six weeks ago that business is the most trusted institution, but business is now being blamed for inflation. And,

so all of a sudden, people see the soft underbelly of business related to COVID. They assume that somehow business used it as an opportunity to raise

prices.

QUEST: Business is getting the blame, arguably, unfairly. Is it too soon in the barometer to see to factor in the change of government?

EDELMAN; Again, I think that there's a lot of uncertainty, which you see in the markets and business is getting the blame, no question. But I'll tell

you what else is getting blamed to science. The diminished belief in science is a significant, long, lasting effect, and it affects not only

science related to drugs, but also to A.I. and any other innovation.

QUEST: Why is this? Because they -- I mean, they got some things wrong, but they got a lot right during the pandemic.

EDELMAN: It's because advice changed and people dislike uncertainty. But as David Nabarro of the who said today, you know, science is a learning

profession and this was a new disease, and we didn't know what we didn't know.

QUEST: Everyone's forgotten John Maynard Keynes, Lord Keynes' line when the facts change, I change my mind. Why, sir, what do you do?

[16:50:10]

When we look at what's going on at the moment, the Trust Barometer tells us that things aren't right. People are unhappy. Now we have the uncertainty

of trade tariffs. What are your clients telling you about how they're doing business?

EDELMAN: Our clients are trying to navigate, they're trying to navigate geopolitics. They're trying to navigate the change in DENI, sustainability.

They're very focused on making sure that every action they takes improves their business and whether it's we're going to have well paid jobs. We're

going to do re skilling. We're going to try and have products that are affordable. We're going to try and do well by making our business better.

QUEST: But when companies are perceived to suddenly become cowardly or craven and changing policies to carry favor with the Trump administration,

as some have done, not all some have done, that can't help trust.

EDELMAN: I think companies are carrying on. Mostly they're not talking about it. I think that they are staying with the efforts and diversity.

They're staying to meet their sustainability goals. They're just doing the work because it's smart for business, because their consumers are diverse

because their employees are diverse.

QUEST: But you look at the law firm Covington --

(CROSSTALK)

EDELMAN: Burling.

QUEST: Burling which, of course, you know, is being penalized because some of their lawyers were doing pro bono work for Jack Smith who was

imperfectly entitled. I mean, I don't expect you to come and have a perfect answer, Richard, I'm looking for sort of a feeling of what's taking place

out there.

EDELMAN: Again, I think business is adjusting to a new administration. It's adjusting to the reality that the world is becoming more conservative, that

it's becoming more nationalistic. There's no question that people want stability but they also want well-paid jobs. They want inflation to come

down. They want a chance to be optimistic again. Remember, in Davos, I told you, not a single Democracy had over 30 percent believe that the next

generation would be better off than the President.

QUEST: How did you sleep easy at night after turn the Trust Barometer?

EDELMAN: I give good advice to clients. And no, I try to say, what should you do? Because that's the key for business. Business controls a lot of the

future if they're able to grow and if they're able to get optimism back.

QUEST: Have a good trip to London. We have to cross the Atlantic so we can meet face to face.

EDELMAN: Why not?

QUEST: Thank you. A final look at the wall at the markets. A Wall Street plummeted as recession fears are growing. The Dow Jones down 900, the S&P

off 2-1/2. NASDAQ, four percent down. A few bright spots in the sell off. I mean, there really are just only a few up there, all the usual favorites.

Oh, look at that. Oh, I love it when you see them exactly what you'd expect. P&G, J&J, 3M, bit of the oil companies.

Coca Cola, all the value stocks, the banks took a bit of a blow as well overall. Dan Niles is with me. Founder of Niles Investment Management. It

is impossible, Dan, to come up with a reasonable strategy in these markets.

DAN NILES, FOUNDER, FOUNDER OF NILES INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT: Well, I mean, I don't think it's impossible. I think it comes down to risk management. And

it's kind of funny that everybody is freaking out over a four -- five percent drop in the S&P year to date when the S&P last year was up 23

percent, the year before that was up 24 percent. So, what it tells you is that everybody just sort of bought into buy the dip, fear of missing out.

They all loaded up on these tech stocks. Didn't care if estimates were going up or down and now, unfortunately, they're paying that the price as

you're seeing estimates come down six of the seven biggest spot --

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: Oh, hang on a second. Let me challenge you. Let me challenge you on that, Dan. I'll accept your premise that the stocks were overvalued and

that therefore there was a reappraisal that was going to take place. But what we're seeing is a creaming of the stocks. You know, they've gone

through the blender because of uncertainty. That does not -- is not justified on the fundamentals.

NILES: It completely is justified. That's where you're missing it. Because look at six of the seven Magnificent Seven stocks. Amazon, Microsoft,

Apple, you go through the list, with the exception of NVIDIA, all of them, when they reported the fourth quarter, they all had the revenue estimates

go down. Now, people tend to ignore that stuff when stocks are going up, because they always say, oh, I've got this great view of the future and

what things are going to look like.

[16:55:01]

But if you look at the actual numbers, they all came down. Now NVIDIA where the revenue estimates edged up very slightly. Their gross margins were

guided below the street for the rest of the year. And so, the numbers barely change on an EPS, right? So absolutely, fundamentally driven in

terms of the Magnificent Seven getting hit, it's just people want to try to ignore, because those stocks have done so well for the last year.

QUEST: One would expect when things do -- I mean, at the end of the day, one must make it -- one would agree, I think that these are all excellent

companies making good products that have solid businesses. This isn't pet.com.

NILES: Well, but you have to remember Amazon in 2001 and 2002, the revenues doubled, and the stock went down 95 percent. So, there is a -- you have to

-- you can't divorce from valuation. And people have gotten used to just sort of ignoring whatever fundamentals are because they've created this

narrative that stocks can kind of go up. You look at Tesla as a great example of this.

Last year deliveries for electric vehicles for Tesla went down for the first time in over a decade, and the stock was up over 60 percent. So, you

know, if you look at foreign markets, I'll give you, let's switch out of the U.S. If you look at foreign markets, if tariffs were real problem, then

Mexico wouldn't be up seven percent if you look at that, ETF. The Eurozone ETF wouldn't be up 50 percent and China's tech stocks, they're up 21

percent if you look at KWEB.

So, the Magnificent Seven are down 15, KWEB is up 21. Reason is estimates are going down in the U.S., Richard.

QUEST: We will talk more in detail on this because there's a lot more to talk about in detail. I'm grateful to you, sir. Thank you. We will take a

profitable moment if there are any profits left after to the break.

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QUEST: Tonight's profitable moment. It doesn't matter whether there's a recession or not, at the end of the day. It's the level of uncertainty that

will dictate how the market performs over the next few weeks. That and comments from the President, one way or the other. And interestingly,

whether or not, if he suddenly adds elements of certainty on tariffs and trades, does the market go up?

No one can really say and no one can know. We are in uncharted territory. But just remember the words of Mohammed el Erian on this program a couple

of weeks ago. Don't make any decisions that are irreparable because an irreparable mistake will cost you dear in the years ahead.

[17:00:08]

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in London. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, oh, we just ring the bell. I hope

it's profitable. I'll see you tomorrow.

END