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Quest Means Business

Russian General: Ukrainian Troops Surrounded in Kursk; Americans Closely Divided Over Trump's Managing of Government; Judge Says Palestinian Activist will Remain in U.S. Custody; BlackRock CEO Says He's Still Very Bullish on the U.S.; SpaceX to Launch Mission to bring Astronauts Home. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired March 12, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:08]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: A mixed day on Wall Street. The Dow falling, just slightly as you see there. The NASDAQ and the S&P up slightly on the day.

Those are the markets and these are the main events.

Russia's top general claiming Ukrainian troops are now surrounded in Kursk.

Fifty-six percent of Americans say they disapprove of how Trump is handling the economy, according to a new CNN poll.

And just a few hours from now, the launch of the space mission that should bring home those two stranded astronauts.

Live from New York, it is Wednesday, March 12th. I am Erica Hill, in today for Richard Quest. Thanks for joining us for QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Good to have you with us.

Breaking news at this hour, Russia's top general now says its forces have surrounded Ukrainian troops in the Kursk Region. Russian President Vladimir

Putin actually visiting that area for the first time since Ukraine's incursion. The general telling Putin, Ukraine's hopes of using Kursk as a

bargaining chip have now collapsed in his view.

U.S. President Trump, meantime, says officials are headed to Moscow to discuss that ceasefire proposal, which, of course was accepted by Kyiv. The

Kremlin has yet to respond to the proposal, other than to say that it expects to be briefed by the United States. Secretary of State Marco Rubio

said those conversations have already taken place, the White House confirming that talks between the U.S. National Security adviser and his

Russian counterpart.

Clarissa Ward is in Kyiv at this hour and joins me now.

So, Clarissa, these latest claims from Russia in terms of having Ukrainian troops surrounded in Kursk, has Ukraine responded at all to that claim?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have heard just in the last hour from the commander of Ukrainian Forces, Syrskyi, who

essentially was sort of being a little bit flexible with his language, but implying that Ukraine was coming under very heavy fire from Russia, from

Special Operations Forces, from some 12,000 North Korean fighters who are engaged in the battle there, and that Ukraine is having to make decisions

about moving and deploying soldiers where appropriate for their own safety.

So there is a growing sense that the momentum is very much against Ukraine at the moment in that enclave of Kursk. The question is, how long can

Ukraine hang on for? Or does it even intend to continue to hang on? We have already heard reports of some fighters or Ukrainian soldiers deployed in

Kursk beginning to withdraw, have not yet had any kind of clear public messaging from Ukrainian officials to that effect.

But clearly, the Russians are one step away, shall we say, from claiming victory there. What Gerasimov, the Russian commanding officer, told

President Vladimir Putin, who was visiting for the first time there today, was that 86 percent of the territory that the Ukrainians had been holding

on to had now been taken back by Russian forces.

And if you remember, Erica, of course, when Ukraine took this territory in this kind of surprise attack, there were really two purposes or two

motivations behind it. One of those was to essentially divert Russian attention and Russian resources away from the eastern frontline, and the

other was to have a valuable bargaining chip at the negotiating table.

And now, as we are potentially getting closer to that negotiating table, there is a sense that this is or would be a significant loss for Ukrainian

forces, but at the same time, reading between the lines from what we are hearing from officials and what people on the streets are saying as well,

ordinary Ukrainians, there is a sense that the value of Kursk may have already sort of outlived its welcome, so to speak, and that a tactical

withdrawal may be incumbent and important in this moment -- Erica.

HILL: What is the sense, Clarissa, what are you hearing on the ground there in terms of response to this agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine as we

wait to hear from Russia, is there a sense -- is there a sense of hope at this point, or is it far too soon for that?

WARD: I think it is too soon for hope or optimism, because there are so much cynicism, and there are so many lessons that have been learned from

history and, you know, ceasefires that have been violated by Russia in the past.

But I do think, broadly speaking, that Ukrainians are exhausted after three years of war, that they are becoming more pragmatic in their approach, in

the sort of search for an end to this.

[16:05:05]

And they understand more clearly that concessions will have to be made, particularly with regards to territory and I think more broadly, there is a

sense not of optimism, but at least a sigh of relief that the talks, the meeting yesterday in Jeddah with U.S. officials went well, that the

relationship is back on track, that the Ukrainians are on the front foot again, that they are in control of their narrative again, that they're

making it clear to the world that they want peace. They're ready for peace. They're not going to be an obstacle to peace.

And really, putting the onus, therefore, on President Vladimir Putin and saying the ball is in your court, effectively calling their bluff -- Erica.

HILL: Yes, absolutely. Clarissa. Appreciate it, as always. Thank you.

U.S. President Trump says to that point he is still waiting to hear from Putin, but says it is up to the Kremlin to decide whether to accept this

ceasefire proposal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But we had a great success yesterday. We have a full ceasefire when it -- if it kicks in. Well

we have to see, it is up to Russia now, but we've had a good relationship with both parties.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Kevin Liptak joining us now from the White House.

So we heard a little bit there from the President. Do we have more of a sense about where these conversations could and when they could be picking

up?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, we do understand that just in the last few hours, the American National Security adviser, Mike

Waltz, did speak with his Russian counterpart, which essentially is now kicking off this round of talks between American and Russian officials to

try and discern exactly where the kremlin stands on this proposed ceasefire.

We also understand that President Trump's foreign envoy, Steve Witkoff, will be heading to Moscow in the next few days to meet directly with Putin

himself, to try and get sort of a final word on where the Russian's stand on all of this.

But as Trump said, in his view, the ball is now very much in Russia's court, which is sort of a unique position for the President to be in here

waiting to hear from the Kremlin on exactly what it would take for them to agree to the ceasefire.

It was interesting in the Oval Office when President Trump was asked about potential pressure on the Kremlin to sign on to this deal, and he did raise

the possibility of some financial pressure, and you'll remember, it was only this week that the President threatened potential new sanctions or

tariffs, including on Russia's banking sector, in an attempt to bring this war to an end.

But the President did say today, even as he left that possibility open, that it was not necessarily a step that he would want to take. He said, I

hope it is not necessary, but he did say that he would be able to do things that would be very bad for Russia in that area. And so you do get a sense

of the sticks that the President may be using, what I don't think is necessarily clear is what the carrots might be that Trump could use to lure

Putin to the negotiating table.

Certainly, Russia has made pretty clear that it will not accept an end to this war. That includes, for example, NATO troops in Ukraine that would

include potential peacekeepers in Ukraine and he has made clear that he believes that Moscow should keep hold of the territory, that it has already

taken.

The U.S. has not taken a position on any of those stances, except for the idea of NATO in Ukraine. They have said that that is essentially a red line

for them. But these are all discussions that I think will be heating up over the coming days, as American officials start liaising with their

Russian counterparts.

One thing that was clear from what the President was saying today is that this, in his view, is going to move very quickly. He wants to get an answer

from Putin very soon. All part of this effort to really speed up these negotiations and bring this conflict to an end.

HILL: We will see if Putin is going to move on that same timeline.

Kevin, appreciate it. Thank you.

Donald Trump is also vowing now to up the ante in his trade war as Americans begin to sour on the President's approach to the economy.

According to brand new CNN polling, 56 percent disapprove of Trump's handling of the economy. That is actually worse than at any point during

his first term, and nearly two-thirds also disapprove of the President's handling of tariffs.

Now, it is important to note, the survey was conducted before this week's market selloff. David Chalian, joining me now from Washington.

If you're Donald Trump, these are likely not the numbers that you want to see as we know. What more can we glean from this new polling, David?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. I mean, you noted that the 56 percent disapproval on the economy is his worst on record throughout his

presidential career and I think that is alarming because it is, first of all, Erica, the most important issue to voters, far and away in our poll,

Americans say the economy is the most important issue compared to any other issue. And it has been a Donald Trump strong suit.

[16:10:08]

So being 12 percentage points underwater here as he is on his approval on the economy, we've never seen anything like it. I mean, back in 2017, at

the end of his first year, he had a 44 percent approval rating on the economy. His disapproval was 49 percent. So the gap was not nearly as large

as it is now. That is a warning sign.

His overall approval rating in this poll is at 45 percent, and that's nothing to write home about. But for Donald Trump, that's actually his high

water mark from his first term.

HILL: So there's that. Also, I mentioned we talked about the economy, but terrorists specifically were a question here. Again, this was before the

selloff that we saw earlier this week. Not a lot of love for the tariffs.

CHALIAN: No. As you noted, more than six in 10 Americans disapprove of his handling of tariffs and I will note the 39 percent who approve, that

number, that's his worst issue that we tested. So we asked a whole bunch of issues approve or disapprove Donald Trump's handling it, and 39 percent

approval on tariffs is the low watermark on any issue we tested.

There is a little bit of bright news for Donald Trump, a slim majority of Americans, 51 percent do approve of his handling of immigration and we know

that issue sort of animates his entire political being. And so far, thumbs up from the American people on that.

HILL: I was also struck by how Americans weighed in on Elon Musk. Not necessarily a lot of love for him either.

CHALIAN: Yes. I mean, really not a lot of love. Look at his favorability numbers. Elon musk is at 35 percent favorable in this poll. Fifty-three

percent of Americans have an unfavorable opinion, only 11 percent have no opinion. But I will say, that 35 percent favorable number, Erica, that's

largely driven by Republicans who are rallying around Trump's guy here in Musk and 60 percent unfavorable rating among Independents.

Elon musk is not wearing well with the broad swath of the American public.

HILL: No. What was it? Six in 10 say that he just doesn't have the experience or the right judgment to make changes to the government, to the

way the government works, and yet, here we are.

We will see, David, always good to see you. Appreciate it. Thanks.

CHALIAN: Great to see you. Thanks.

HILL: Well, Trump is of course moving ahead with his trade war. Whether it is popular or not, he has now imposed a 25 percent tariff on all imported

steel and aluminum and is warning he is not done.

The President inviting the Irish Taoiseach, Micheal Martin to the White House ahead of Saint Patrick's Day. Their meeting today, of course.

During Martin's visit, Trump accused Ireland of luring away U.S. Companies with low taxes. And also vowed to match any tariff that would put American

firms at a disadvantage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are going to be doing reciprocal tariffs, so whatever they charge us with, we are charging them.

Nobody can complain about that. Whatever it is, it doesn't even matter what it is.

If they charge us -- if they charge us 25 percent or 20 percent or 10 percent or two percent or 200 percent, then that's what we are charging

them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: U.S. trading partners are responding to the White House, Canada announcing a 25 percent tariff on some $20 billion worth of U.S. goods. The

E.U. taking a similar step.

Ursula von der Leyen, the President of the European Commission, said Trump's tariffs were just unjustified.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

URSULA VON DER LEYEN, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: Tariffs are taxes. They are bad for business and worse for consumers. The countermeasures we

take today are strong, but proportionate as the United States are applying tariffs worth $28 billion, we are responding with countermeasures worth 26

billion euros.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Anna Stewart is in London with more on this.

So the tariffs going back and forth at this point -- Anna.

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Yes, I think we are going to struggle to remember who is responded to who at some stage. You know we have the E.U.

responding to Trump's tariffs. We also had the President today saying he would be responding to the E.U. and we do expect, of course, even more

tariffs to come into place on April 2nd.

But there has been so much stop and starting, who really knows at this stage. Interesting reactions we've had today. The E.U. has retaliated,

Canada has retaliated, Australia had -- stern words, they Prime Minister spoke about how Australia and the U.S. are traditionally friends, and

that's also been possibly the kind of reaction were having here in the U.K., no retaliation, lots of high hopes for a trade deal.

The question is, what strategy will work? If the President is using tariffs as a negotiating strategy, well, what kind of negotiating can be done at

this stage? The E.U. has tried and failed. The E.U. Trade Commissioner was in D.C. a few weeks ago and came up with absolutely nothing. I am not sure

hitting the U.S. with tariffs is necessarily going to work -- Erica.

HILL: It may not, it is also not clear that what Donald Trump says is going to happen is going to work. We know that this is often a bargaining tactic,

right, to your point. So we will see how that end works out.

[16:15:04]

But the President has said repeatedly that these tariffs are actually going to bring a whole lot of money into the United States, that there will be so

much money, people won't know how to spend it. The reality paints a different picture, just based on what we've seen from tariffs in the past.

STEWART: Right. So even if we block our ears out from all the retaliatory tariffs, the trade war, the potential for inflation around the world, we

just focus on, for instance, steel and aluminum, what are these tariffs designed to do? How do they impact the U.S. economy? Yes, they are likely

to boost steel and aluminum. You can potentially see an increase in jobs. We are already seeing very increased prices when it comes to U.S. made

steel and aluminum, but what does that actually do.

And we can look at some history actually, some studies on what tariffs have done in the past for inspiration here. One is from a trade organization,

looking at 2002 steel tariffs, 200,000 American jobs were actually lost in this scenario because the issue with creating an increase in steel and

aluminum is you are increasing the cost of all sorts of products, you are increasing costs for businesses in all sorts of sectors, from tools,

machinery, from cars. And of course, you can see there $4 billion in lost wages.

Tire tariffs, this was an Obama policy in 2002. Now, this saved 1,200 jobs. However, the cost was so vast that if you divvy it out and consider how

much the increased cost was for the U.S. consumer, for each job, it was $900,000.00. Is the cost of the jobs really worth it? 2018 steel tariffs

much closer to home. Of course, Trump's first administration, a nine percent increase in the price of steel products. This increased the cost

for users by $5.6 billion. If you put that down to how much cost each one was for a job, there were 8,007 jobs created, $650,000.00 per job.

So okay, you can maybe create more jobs by these tariffs, but the cost of it, is it really worth it?

HILL: Yes, it is an important question.

Anna, I really appreciate it, as always. Thank you.

The arrest of a Palestinian activist sparking protests here in New York. We have the very latest on Mahmoud Khalil's case and on today's hearing, which

determined he will need to stay in custody in Louisiana.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: A Palestinian activist now facing deportation from the United States will remain in detention following his first court hearing.

[16:20:02]

Mahmoud Khalil, a recent graduate of Columbia University was arrested in New York and had his green card revoked. It appears to be one of the Trump

administration's first attempts to deport students who were protesting the war in Gaza.

In New York this week, protesters have been demanding Khalil's release. His attorneys say his arrest is simply politically motivated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAHER AZMY, ATTORNEY FOR MAHMOUD KHALIL: The government has basically admitted that they are punishing him for his views that are contrary to the

government's views and that's just an obvious piece of authoritarian logic that we cannot tolerate as long as we live in a democracy. It is totally

unacceptable for him and for others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: There are a lot of questions surrounding this arrest and detention. Gloria Pazmino following all of the developments for us in New York.

So, Gloria, when we look at where things stand in terms of this hearing today, did we learn any more about the grounds for revoking his green card?

Any charges?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, I went into the courtroom hoping that we were going to get some sort of detail about how

the government is justifying the detention of Khalil, but we did not get that today. And as you can see there, the lawyers for Khalil are arguing

that this is an issue of free speech and the freedom to protest while the government appears to be preparing to argue that this is somehow a question

of public safety and Khalil's alleged support for a terrorist organization, that's what White House officials have said, that he is being accused of,

although those accusations have not been made formally in a court of law.

Now, today's hearing was very procedural. The judge essentially told the parties to go back and draft their motions and come back to him by the end

of the week to figure out how this case is going to move forward. Now, the reason that is happening is because the government has signaled that it is

going to argue that this court here in New York does not have jurisdiction over the case because Khalil was initially transferred to a facility in New

Jersey and eventually a facility in Louisiana, where he is now.

So they are going to argue that it should be New Jersey or Louisiana that actually gets to hear this case. One thing that we did get out of this

hearing today, Erica, was a direction from this judge telling the government they have to make sure that Khalil has access to his attorneys,

something his attorneys complained about in court today, saying that they have not been able to speak to him. They said, "We literally have not been

able to confer with our client once since he was taken off the streets of New York City."

Specifically, they complained about the fact that they haven't been able to have privileged calls with him. So far, they've spoken to him, but as you,

as you know, calls when you are in a detention center, are monitored by the government, so they did get that much.

The lawyers for Khalil went in there today hoping that Khalil was going to be ordered to return back to New York City. They did not get that. For now,

we are going to see what happens by the end of the week when the government has to file those motions. In the meantime, his lawyers, continuing to

argue that this is a question of freedom of speech and political assembly and not a question of public safety.

HILL: Gloria, really appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, U.S. Department of Education offices in the United States are closed today after the agency announced that it would be cutting half of its

workforce. The Trump administration has said it is also, of course, working to close the department altogether. The Secretary of Education says these

cuts are just the first step in that goal.

It is important to note that most funding for U.S. public schools actually comes from the state and the local level, not the federal level and critics

warn that disrupting the department's budget could impact important services, especially for students with special needs.

The department itself also oversees a trillion dollars in student loan debt, and does help to enforce Civil Rights protections in schools. So what

could all of these changes mean for the millions of students across the United States? Evan Stone is the CEO and co-founder of Educators for

Excellence. It is a teacher-led advocacy organization focused on policy and I should point out, you are a former public school teacher yourself as

well.

When we look at what we are seeing Evan today, so we have heard repeatedly from President Trump, he wants to do away with the Department of Education

that in his mind, this is about, he said it today even, it is about returning control to the states.

How does getting rid of the U.S. Department of Education actually grant more control over curriculum, for example, because he is constantly touting

the poor education scores for United States students, how does that change anything in terms of what kids are learning across the country?

EVAN STONE, CEO AND CO-FOUNDER, EDUCATORS FOR EXCELLENCE: Well, first, thank you for having me on, Erica. It is great to represent the voices of

teachers across the country.

[16:25:10]

And right now, the federal government has no say in curriculum and what is going on in classrooms across the country. Congress has passed a number of

laws preventing the federal government from playing that role. And so what this is, though, to your point, is it is a first step in a ten-year plan

that was laid out in Project 2025 to fully dismantle the Department of Education.

What the department does is it protects the Civil Rights of students across the country. It funds low income students and students with special needs,

and it does research to figure out what's working across schools and try to uplift best practices.

None of these cuts are going to improve education.

HILL: In terms of, as you point out, supporting a number of programs for folks. You know, we are an international show. So for folks who may not be

familiar with the way the funding of public education works in this country, it depends a lot on where you live. It depends on what the tax

base is locally.

So there is state funding. There is also local funding that comes from the local tax base, and part of, at least my understanding, some of this

funding, right, can help make up the difference in some areas. You know, we are told that this is part of a move that would in some ways level the

playing field by giving parents more choice and giving them more options in terms of where their child can be educated. What's the reality?

STONE: So first, you're absolutely right. Ninety percent of funding comes from local states and districts, but that isn't equally distributed across

the country. So there are a number of states, six, in fact, where the federal government makes up more than 20 percent of the funding, and that's

because those states have the highest proportion of low income students.

So in Alaska and Montana and South Dakota and Arkansas and Mississippi and Kentucky, the federal government is a major funder, and those dollars are

going to kids that have the greatest needs.

To the second part of your question, it is really clear that this intention is not about giving more control to states. It is about dismantling the

role that the federal government plays. States already control most of the decisions around education. The firing of these critical staff members are

just going to mean there is less oversight to ensure dollars go to the kids that they are intended to go to, and that the rights of students across the

country are protected.

HILL: Were there areas based on your experience that you could see within the Department of Education that did need perhaps a little fine tuning?

Were there areas of bloat? Were funds being misused in your experience?

STONE: I think there is absolutely room to eliminate some of the programs in the Department of Education, and I was expecting, with a new

administration to see some disruption and change. But this wasn't disruption, this was destruction in what they're trying to do.

And so this wasn't a thoughtful process of making cuts. For example, I was talking to some of my friends who have worked in the Department and some

that are still there saying that they didn't strategically remove some roles. They cut entire teams. So that could be teams that are working on

the back end of the FAFSA form that help students get loans for universities and for colleges, that could be complete teams that are

working on the oversight of Civil Rights across the country and running investigations to ensure districts and states are complying with the law.

This was not a surgical set of cuts. It was a destruction that isn't about reforming or transforming our education system to improve it. It is really

about eliminating the role of the federal government in education in the United States.

HILL: What is your biggest concern about this approach and about perhaps the wholesale dismantling of this department? What would the broader impact

be, not just in the immediate, but in the long term?

STONE: I think it is the long term that I am most worried about. Many of the dollars going out from the federal government will continue to go out

because they are part of formula funds. But my longer term concern is that the federal government stepped in to play a role in education because

states weren't serving our highest need students -- the students that have the least, resources around them, that have the least advocates behind

them. And so the federal government said, we have a role to play to ensure all kids are getting the resources and services they need.

My fear is that what this will do is continue to undermine and widen opportunity gaps in this country and diminish the services that we know

kids need, especially coming out of the pandemic when we need more, not less, in our lowest income communities and with students with special

needs.

HILL: Evan Stone, really appreciate your perspective. Thank you.

STONE: Thank you, Erica.

HILL: Well, a week long mission for Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore turned into ten months. The two astronauts, though, could soon be heading home.

More on that mission next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:33:02]

HILL: We're turning to our business agenda. A bit of a choppy session on Wall Street with U.S. markets trying to recover from those steep losses

earlier in the week. The Dow, for its part, as you see there, closing slightly lower. The S&P and the Nasdaq, though, both managing to finish in

the green.

Investors also got some good news on inflation. Consumer prices rose by 2.8 percent in February year over year. That is less than economists expected.

Meantime, the head of BlackRock, the world's largest asset manager, says the U.S. economy is weakening as we speak.

BlackRock CEO Larry Fink sat down with my colleague Kayla Tausche for an exclusive interview where he said that despite recent turmoil, he does

remain bullish when it comes to the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY FINK, CEO, BLACKROCK: Let's put it in context. The last three years we've had incredible run on the equity markets since COVID. So we've had

one of the largest market increases in the indexes than we've ever seen. And so, yes, there is a lot of uncertainty. A lot of the uncertainty is

coming here from Washington. But that being said, there is nothing wrong with a market pullback. There is nothing wrong with a 5 percent or 7

percent or 10 percent, even 15 percent market pullback.

I look at that as a buying opportunity because I'm very bullish on America, and I believe the opportunity over the course of the next 10 years with the

U.S. leadership, our leadership in A.I., our leadership across so many industries, our leadership in medicine across the board. No country in the

world has opportunities that financing a smart new idea where people could get capital to do it.

Small and medium businesses can get capital from banks, can get capital now from the capital markets. Yes, there is a lot of uncertainty. And yes, the

markets feel really squishy at the moment but --

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: How much uncertainty can the markets sustain? Can the economy sustain before this moves into

something looking like a recession?

FINK: But there's -- I mean, it depends on the duration of a recession. Could we have a one quarter or two quarters of market -- of a flattening of

our economy as we try to reset the economy? Absolutely.

[16:35:07]

Could we see elevated inflation in the next two quarters? Yes, but I'm looking beyond that. If we are able to unlock private capital, as I wrote

about in an editorial, if we could, you know, reinvest back in America, if we could build more factories and plants in America, that will restart and

rekindle the next wave of a bull market.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: All right. Looking up, way, way up. The countdown is on. We have some live pictures for you from the launch pad at Kennedy Space Center in

Florida. Just a few hours from now SpaceX is set to send a Falcon Nine rocket that will bring those two astronauts who've been stuck in space,

well, bring them back to earth.

The mission is also bringing a new crew to the International Space Station. And then, of course, when it returns, it's coming back with Suni Williams

and Butch Wilmore, who've been up there now for some 10 months. They left in early June of 2024 on what was supposed to be a week long journey, but

immediately there were some issues with that ship which delayed the return. It was delayed again in August when it was decided that the ship would

actually leave without them. The Starliner capsule arriving home empty in September.

So what is happening now and in these next few days?

Leroy Chiao is a former NASA astronaut joining me from Houston.

Great to have you with us. So as we're waiting, right, for this Falcon to take off and then ultimately it should dock at the International Space

Station early Thursday morning and then hopefully maybe as early as Sunday, we will start to see that trip home. Walk us through what this is like, I

mean, you're a former ISS commander. When you were in that moment, right, knowing that you were hopefully on your way home, what were you most

looking forward to in that moment?

LEROY CHIAO, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Oh, yes. Well, it's very exciting. Of course near the end of your long duration mission, you're feeling good

about the accomplishments that you've made during your time up there, but you're also very much looking forward to getting back home. You know,

besides family and friends, obviously, that you're going to be reunited with, the thing I think most of us, me certainly, missed the most about not

being back here on the earth is just nature.

You know, just the feel of the wind on your face, the smell of grass, watching birds and squirrels, you know, run around and, of course, the

foods a lot better down here, too.

(LAUGHTER)

HILL: Yes. I will say having only tried the astronaut ice cream, that was a big hit in the '80s, I would vote for the real thing down here. So over

these last several months, right, so we know that, and I've heard from so many former astronauts, look, this this happens, you sort of prepare for

you think you're going for eight days, that's 10 months. That's part of the training. That being said, what would NASA have been monitoring over these

last several months for these astronauts to know what they're going to need physically and emotionally when they do get back to earth?

CHIAO: Well, of course, astronauts were trained to be adaptable to figure out the situation we're in and make it work. And Butch and Suni have done

that wonderfully. Obviously a huge disruption to their personal lives and their families' lives, and maybe even to their professional plans. But, you

know, this is even long by long duration standards. Usually our missions last around six months. This has been like nine months. And so they're

already 50 percent over the norm. And so you can bet they're looking forward to coming home.

As far as anything special that NASA has done. You know, we've all been through psychological screening. And, you know, they try to send us videos

and we have e-mail and we can actually make short phone calls down to friends and family, you know, from a VOIP phone on board the station. So

it's pretty good. You know, we can deal with it. It's easy to know -- it's easier when you know when you're coming home.

And so fortunately for Butch and Suni, when they were told they're going to be joining the current expedition and won't be coming back for at least,

you know, six, seven, eight, nine months, they were mentally prepared for it and they were able to adapt that way.

HILL: And what about coming back? You know, what changes, what surprised you most as you came back to earth in terms of how different things felt?

What you had to readjust to, how your body had changed?

CHIAO: Sure. I mean, there are a lot of biomedical changes when you go back, go into space, and none of them are good. Fortunately, most of them

can be counteracted with exercise. That's why we exercise two hours a day on board the ISS. But when you come back, there's no getting around the re-

adaptation. You know, as soon as you land, you're very dizzy. Your brain is no longer used to the signals that are now coming to it from your inner

ear, your balance system.

You feel really super dizzy. It can make you feel nauseous. You could be a little bit dehydrated because in space the average human body carries about

two liters less water. You know, just imagine one of those big soda bottles, you know, less water.

[16:40:05]

So we take salt tablets and drink water before we come back down. You know, so it takes a while. It'll probably take him a couple weeks at least before

they kind of start feeling like they're back to normal. It's difficult to walk a straight line, for sure, and you certainly don't want to be driving

yourself.

HILL: Yes. Definitely not. I mean, you said a couple of weeks. Is that how long it took you to really start to feel, you know, quote-unquote, normal

again?

CHIAO: That's kind of the average. My crew actually recovered pretty quickly. We recovered after about a week. And I attribute that to our

dedication to the before, during and after exercise protocols. And you know what? Knowing Suni and Butch, they also like to work out a lot so they

might recover more quickly, too. It's really an individual thing, and it depends on the individual physiology. And there's really no way to predict

until you've done it.

But they've both done long duration missions before, so they know what to expect when they come back.

HILL: Yes, absolutely. Leroy, appreciate it as always. We will hopefully have much more to discuss in the coming days as we get closer and closer to

their return to earth. Thanks as always.

CHIAO: My pleasure. Thank you.

HILL: Thanks to all of you for joining me on this Wednesday. That does it for QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Up next, "MARKETPLACE ASIA."

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