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Quest Means Business

Trump: Russia-Ukraine Ceasefire Talks To Start Immediately; Bond Yields Jump, Dolla Falls After Moody's Downgrades U.S.; U.K. And E.U. Strike Deal On Trade, Security And Travel; All Big Three Groups, Lufthansa, Air France-KLM and IAG Interested In Buying TAP Air Portugal. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 19, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:13]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street, down at the beginning, but we are ending up, not

quite at the best of the day, but a strong session to close things out as we -- come on and we will have the gavel. Here we go.

And come along, one, two, three. We haven't got all day. Market is closed. Interesting session. Lots to talk about. Those are the markets and these

are the main events of the day.

President Trump announces that Russia and Ukraine will immediately start negotiations towards a ceasefire. The E.U. and U.K. hit the reset button

five years after Brexit.

And political gridlock in Portugal could delay plans to sell a stake in the flag carrier, TAP.

TAP's chief executive will be with me tonight on this program.

Live from London on Monday. It is May the 19th. I am Richard Quest and I mean business.

Good evening. We begin tonight with Donald Trump saying Russia and Ukraine will immediately start working towards a ceasefire. The U.S. President was

speaking to Vladimir Putin and to Volodymyr Zelenskyy earlier and says the call with his Russian counterpart lasted for around two hours. The tone was

said to be excellent.

President Putin spoke about the call as well. He said Russia also wants peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The U.S. President expressed his position on the secession of hostilities, ceasefire. And from

my end, I emphasize that Russia also stands for a peaceful resolution of the Ukrainian crisis. We must simply determine the most effective paths

toward peace.

The question, of course, is that the Russian and Ukrainian side should show maximum desire for peace and find compromises that would suit all parties,

at the same time, I'd like to note that in general, Russia's position is clear. The main thing for us is to eliminate the root causes of this

crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv. Root causes of the crisis, well, the root cause of the crisis is that Russia invaded. But I am guessing he means

a lot more than that. He is talking about NATO membership and NATO borders and all of that sort of stuff. So what's the chances of Zelenskyy going

along with all of this?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Look, he has got very little choice but to go along with whatever process the Trump

administration says Ukraine has to go along with. The issue here today is that after this long heralded phone call proposed by Donald Trump, he had

two-and-a-half hours on the phone with the Russian President and essentially, got a repetition from the more authoritative voice of the

Russian President of ideas that his team on a junior level already agreed to in Istanbul on Friday, and then this root causes idea, which is

essentially we have to demilitarize Ukraine. We have to address the issue of NATO expansion.

The false narrative Russia presented for its invasion of choice over three years ago. Now the question surely that has to be asked is, does this mean

that Vladimir Putin has any interest in the peace deal the Trump administration has so urgently wanted to wrap up quickly? And I would

suggest that what we've heard today is a no. But it doesn't suddenly mean that in Kyiv here, Volodymyr Zelenskyy can say, well, it is time for

sanctions. We need to have consequences for Russia ignoring the ceasefire ten days ago, the face-to-face meeting I suggested in Istanbul, and then

now bringing very little progress from these talks.

So he has to go along with them. He has to wait for the ceasefire document that Putin said he would be delivering. He has to wonder whether

Switzerland, Turkey or the Vatican is the best next venue.

But finally, Richard, the interesting thing is Donald Trump's Truth Social post, where he talks about how these two countries, Ukraine and Russia,

have to talk about this alone, maybe in the Vatican. It sounds like he is stepping back, and I think that's what is going to leave many Europeans and

those here in Kyiv anxious -- Richard.

QUEST: Okay, so if he does step back and Europe, I mean, is there a role for Europe to fill that gap? Because if it is just Zelenskyy and Putin

without some sort of middle mediator from wherever that might be, it is not going to go well.

WALSH: If Putin doesn't want to strike a peace deal, then it would entirely explain how we've got to where we are. If he wanted to strike a peace deal,

there is nobody better to have in the room for that to get concessions with than the United States, because they are the ones essentially still

bankrolling Ukraine in the war here. They are the ones who Europe says it can't handle the security situation without.

So now, the United States might step back. It is simply carte blanche for Putin to pursue what he wants, and I think that was the interesting thing

we heard, well, to many Europeans, the horrifying thing we heard from Vice President J.D. Vance, who basically said, if we don't see progress, we

might decide not to do this anymore, and I mean, that's exactly what Moscow wants, the U.S. out of this conflict diplomatically and militarily,

enabling them greater latitude to achieve their goals -- Richard.

[16:05:17]

QUEST: I am grateful, Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv, I am grateful. Thank you.

To our business agenda tonight. Wall Street showing signs of anxiety initially after Moody's downgraded U.S. debt. Bond yields jumped and the

dollar fell, all to be expected after the ratings agency cited increasing debt levels and Washington's fight over the budget as the reason for the

move. It follows Donald Trump's spending proposals, which follows through Congress, despite concerns over what it does to the deficit.

The former IMF chief economist, Ken Rogoff, said on this program last week dealing with the debt won't be easy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNETH ROGOFF, FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIST AT THE INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: I think we are going to continue to see the deficit rolling along, and

markets are not going to be pleased. I think we are going to see interest rates going up, the interest bill piling. It is more than the defense

budget now, so that it is going to be hard to deal with and still get elected until we've had a crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Allison Morrow is with me.

Allison, the problem here is that all of what Ken says is true, but until now, the markets have been happy to go along with it and even when we talk

about these downgrades, we are talking about minuscule at the margins, significant, I will grant you, but it is not the clarion call that would

actually make a difference;.

ALLISON MORROW, CNN BUSINESS SENIOR EDITOR: I think that's right, Richard. I think that you saw markets -- when the market opened this morning, it

looked a little bit more like a panic and then, as the day went on, people were kind of like, well, okay, you know, this didn't tell us anything new.

Moody's was the third credit rating agency to make this decision on U.S. debt. It is not telling us any new information. So maybe we just keep going

with our plan. But I do think it is worth noting, Jamie Dimon came out today for JPMorgan's Investor Day, and I took down the quote because I

thought it was interesting.

"The people who haven't been through a major downturn are missing the point about what can happen in credit," and he is trying to say that a lot of the

people who are traders now weren't traders during the great financial crisis. And so they might be a little too complacent right now.

QUEST: It does. When I look at the budget that they've passed and I see, yes, you had the hardline Republicans who held out in a sense, rightly or

wrongly, but they are the ones arguably, even though they may want spending cuts on the poor and social services, but they're the ones, in a sense, who

are really saying something has to be done.

MORROW: Right. It is an oddly bipartisan issue to agree that the deficit is not sustainable, and the debt is ballooning, but of course, we are at an

impasse over how to actually deal with those things. So, I mean, we don't know why Moody's released when it did, but it does seem, you know, well-

timed to kind of wake people up in a sense, as they're negotiating this legislation.

QUEST: Allison, I am grateful. Thank you.

MORROW: Thanks, Richard.

QUEST: You can call it a surrender or you can call it the way forward. Either way, Britain and the European Union have reset relations or are in

the process of nearly a decade after the Brexit vote.

The Prime Minister, Sir Keir Starmer, outlined the new agreement in London alongside the E.U.'s Ursula von der Leyen and Antonio Costa, the President

of the Council.

The deal covers defense and security, travel. You can use passports at e- gates and fishing and trade. It was reached as the Trump administration pushed his -- excuse me -- governments around the world to rethink their

partnerships.

Leaders in the U.K. and E.U. say they are finding ways to work together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

URSULA VON DER LEYEN, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: We are turning a page. We are opening a new chapter in our unique relationship. This is the story

of historical and natural partners standing side by side on the global stage.

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: This deal is a win-win. It delivers what the British public voted for last year. It gives us unprecedented

access to the E.U. market, the best of any country outside of the E.U. or EFTA, all while sticking to the red lines in our Manifesto.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now, Sir Simon Fraser is a founding partner at Flint Global and the former head of the British Foreign Office joins me now.

What do you make of it? Come on. You were around when a lot of this was negotiated the first time. What do you make of it?

SIR SIMON FRASER, FOUNDING PARTNER AT FLINT GLOBAL: Well, it is a complicated deal on a complicated agenda with complicated politics on both

sides. So the first thing to say is it doesn't really lend itself to simplistic judgments. But having said that, it is the start of a process

rather than the end of a process.

[16:10:01]

But having said that, it is an important day because after nearly a decade of antagonistic relations between the U.K. and the E.U., it does signal

that both sides see the need to turn the page on that, and I think they're right, given that we've got an aggressive Russia to the East and an

uncertain America to the West, Europe needs to come together and Britain has to be part of that.

QUEST: So when I looked at the morning newspapers in Britain and I saw "surrender" screaming across, the "Brexit squandered" says the leader of

the opposition. And then you say they're saying it is not going far. It all had a depressing ring to it, that's my anticipation.

FRASER: Not the event itself, but some of the reactions to it, I found a bit -- depressing is a strong word, but sort of predictable in a way,

because they were going back to the language of Brexit, and the whole point about this is we need to move beyond that. You know, it is nearly a decade

and it is true that if we are going to move forward, both sides are going to have to make concessions to get advantage and they are particularly

referring to the fish issue, I know. but there is a much broader agenda that we have to look across.

QUEST: This idea as well, of giving the European court some say in defining the rules, I guess.

FRASER: No, it doesn't give it that role in defining the rules. It gives the European Court of Justice authority to determine points of European law

that come up in the agreement. But actually, these --

QUEST: Isn't that what I said?

FRASER: Well, no, not quite, because what these agreements have proposed is that there should be new forms of arbitration bodies set up in case of

disputes. So there is a barrier. There is another level built in between. You know, you can always pick at this. Nothing is going to be perfect for

either side.

But the point is which direction of travel are we in.

QUEST: Right. But -- well, we are clearly in a direction of travel of getting closer again to the E.U., but that can also -- that can just be on

practical grounds. I mean, like the passport business and being able to use the passport gates. It doesn't mean that the U.K. can't do what it wanted

to do elsewhere.

FRASER: Well, it is true that we have done other things elsewhere. We've recently done a deal with the United States. We've recently done a deal

with India. But of course this is actually a much bigger and more important agenda economically for the U.K., and as I said at the start, the breadth

of the agenda is very considerable.

It covers trade, it covers movement of people, it covers youth experience. It covers energy cooperation, a whole range of things and not everything

has been agreed on day one, but there is a commitment to delivering those agreements. So that acid litmus test will be, do they actually take it

forward and deliver on both sides?

QUEST: So you've been around these talks and negotiations and you are obviously still involved and talking to the people who are talking to

people. Does it feel different? Does it feel like there is a new reality in the post Putin-Trump or in the Putin-Trump world where there is a -- the

toxicity has gone out of it?

FRASER: I think it does feel different. I think it feels different because the incoming labor government decided clearly that it wanted to reset this

agenda. So that's the first thing in British politics. Secondly, as you said, you know, the geopolitics has changed and people have woken up to

that and it is a responsibility on both sides actually, to come together and address the broader agenda of strategic challenges and security

challenges for Europe and economic challenges.

And the third point I just want to mention is the British government has a clear priority for growth. We can't grow our international economic

relationships if we don't do it with the European Union.

QUEST: And what about this E.U.-U.K. or U.K.-E.U. Summit every year? I mean, it is both an excellent idea, but it is also setting up for a lot of

bricks to be --

FRASER: No, it is a very good idea because it gives you a mechanism which forces delivery on the ongoing agreement. So there is going to be an annual

summit and a six-monthly foreign policy consultation. That's both good.

QUEST: I'm very glad, sir. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you.

Coming up in a moment, the Greek Foreign Minister will be with me about what the deal means for his country. There you see the Minister and

hopefully he is going to confirm that he will put those machines in that will allow U.K. to use e-gates sooner rather than later.

The Minister is after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:48]

QUEST: Now, back to one of our top stories. The E.U. and U.K. are resetting their post-Brexit relationship. Part of their new agreement is to make

travel more seamless in Europe. British travelers will now be able to use e-gates at European airports or they will eventually. The two sides will

look for ways to let people under 30 travel and work between the U.K. and Europe, and will give British students more opportunities to study at

European schools, the quid pro quo, vice versa.

Giorgos Gerapetritis is the Greek Foreign Minister. He joins me from New York.

Minister, I apologize, I am in London tonight, so unfortunately not able to --

GIORGOS GERAPETRITIS, GREEK FOREIGN MINISTER: Lucky, you'll return.

QUEST: Well, you're in New York now.

Minister, you obviously welcome this deal because the sheer amount of tourism business between Greece and the U.K., anything that makes that

easier and also better for your exports must be to your benefit. You must welcome this deal.

GERAPETRITIS: We are absolutely excited for the deal between the United Kingdom and the European Union. We are looking forward to it.

We worked very hard in order to conclude this agreement, and I think apart from anything else, apart from the trade, the people to people diplomacy,

tourism, I think it is a major step in order to enhance the European strategic autonomy, because we cannot envisage Europe without the United

Kingdom.

So this is a major upscaling, and we are looking forward to work together.

QUEST: Is there a sense of reality on both sides that this is the sort of deal that arguably could have been done if the participants on both sides -

- I am being even handed here -- had not been so stuck in their ways, arguably toxic at the time, and therefore this was not possible 10 years

ago.

But the reality of Putin on one side, Trump on the other means this has to be realistic.

GERAPETRITIS: To start with, I think, we are very deliberative. Our mindset is completely on the deliberative side of things. So we think there is

nothing that we cannot achieve with proper dialogue. So, it is important that we sit around the table and discuss.

Secondly, I think that we are living in very challenging times and when challenging times occurs, I think, all nations, all states, all

governments, they are getting closer. They are getting together because they feel that the more they are sticking together, the stronger they are

and the more leverage they have and the bargaining chips they acquire are much higher.

So I think all these reasons brought us together, and I feel that this is going to be the start of a magnificent alliance.

QUEST: I was in Athens just a couple of weeks ago. And I mean, besides the fact, it is just superb, splendid. Yes, I even looked at the Acropolis but

we will deal with that another day. And I sort of -- you suffered so much during the financial crisis, but the economy in your country does seem to

be on a firmer footing, because you took those hard decisions all of those years ago.

GERAPETRITIS: I think we had some pretty bad times. We had a very severe austerity program for almost a decade. We almost lost 25 percent of our

GDP. It is important that we have recovered in the last six years. We have become the champions in -- the European champions in growth, in decreasing

unemployment, in decreasing public deficit.

[16:20:13]

So at the moment, there is a huge upside for our economy. We can borrow in the same terms or in even better terms to all other European states and I

think there is a glorious future for us, just to mention that we have a government which is very stable, a government which is pro-investment and

this is why we have the opportunity to welcome in, in Greece all the major American companies, including Amazon, Pfizer, Google, Cisco, and they have

all found a very fruitful environment.

QUEST: I should be charging you for the commercial for Greece if you're not careful, Minister. I will be sending you the bill for the commercial.

Now, look --

GERAPETRITIS: No problem. We are very generous now that we have enough budget.

QUEST: You're in New York for the Maritime Conference that you're chairing. The one thing we've discovered in the last 12 to 18 months is the

significance and the difficulties, whether it be the Panama Canal or indeed going round through the Suez Canal and the difficulties of maritime, even

supply chain issues coming from China. What is your hope for this conference?

GERAPETRITIS: First of all, I should say, Richard, that 80 percent of the whole world trade is mobilized through the sea. So it is absolutely

important to upscale maritime security. It is important to secure that freedom of navigation is respected wholeheartedly altogether.

And then we have all these modern challenges that we need to address. We have the climate crisis. We have the cyber-attacks. There are a lot of

things now happening. So we need, I think, to recalibrate the way we are seeing things when it comes to freedom of shipping.

First of all, it is our intention to suggest a new framework in order to allow more freedom to prevent all kinds of hybrid threats, including

terrorism, piracy, including human smuggling, which is a contemporary terror for human dignity. So I think all of those challenges need to be

addressed.

And the fact -- the mere fact that this is a global challenge leads us to the result that we need to have a global response.

QUEST: I am grateful to you, sir, for joining us tonight. Thank you. And a successful conference ahead. Thank you.

GERAPETRITIS: Delighted, Richard.

QUEST: Israeli forces are preparing for what they are calling an unprecedented attack in Southern Gaza. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin

Netanyahu says Israel will soon control all of the territory.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond has more on the fighting in Gaza and the hunger crisis there. And let me warn you, this report does contain disturbing scenes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The next chapter of Israel's war in Gaza is now underway, and it could be the deadliest yet.

Over the weekend, the Israeli military launching operation Gideon's Chariots striking Gaza with devastating force. Tens of thousands of troops

now mobilized for the offensive with a new mission from the top.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We have intense, massive fighting going on, intense and immense. There is progress.

We are going to take control of the entire Gaza Strip. That's what we are going to do.

DIAMOND (voice over): Israeli strikes have killed more than 300 people since Friday, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health.

The toll on civilians is once again rapidly mounting. Among those killed is Aylul (ph) taken from this world just four months after she was born into

it.

Her small body now lies on her father's chest while her family searches for words to make sense of it all.

(OMAR speaking in foreign language.)

DIAMOND (voice over): "They were all asleep. A mother, father and their four-month-old daughter, all targeted in their bedroom," Aylul's Uncle Omar

says. "I don't know what to say anymore. We've spoken a lot. No one is looking after us. Not Arabs, not Muslims. No one."

In Khan Younis, mattresses and belongings are piled high once again as Israel's new offensive triggers Gaza's latest mass displacement.

The Israeli military ordering hundreds of thousands of people to evacuate, declaring the area a dangerous combat zone.

(PEOPLE chanting)

DIAMOND (voice over): In that same city, anger and frustration boiling over, including at Hamas.

(PROTESTERS chanting)

DIAMOND (voice over): Hundreds of Palestinians taking to the streets in a rare protest calling for the war to end and for Hamas to get out.

After pushing Gaza to the brink of famine, Israel, now agreeing to partially lift its 11-week blockade.

NETANYAHU (through translator): We need to provide a temporary bridge, minimal basic aid to prevent starvation. That's the current situation we

are in.

DIAMOND (voice over): The Israeli government says several dozen aid trucks will be allowed into Gaza this week until a new Israeli approved mechanism

for aid deliveries becomes operational later this month. Thousands more ready to go, aid trucks will continue to be blocked.

Amid the destruction of another airstrike in Central Gaza, residents are paying close attention to ceasefire negotiations in the Qatari capital. But

here, flickers of progress lead only to another body that must be wrenched from the rubble.

(RAED ABU ELLEK speaking in foreign language.)

DIAMOND (voice over): "We went to sleep with hope that tomorrow will be better, and suddenly everything turned upside down." Raed abu Ellek (ph)

says. "My message is look at this. Stop this war."

More men eventually join Raed raid to pull out their neighbor's body and carry him out of the rubble. Signs of hope now seem far away once again.

Jeremy DIAMOND, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Portugal's ruling party came out on top in this week's weekend snap elections, but it still fell short of a majority. The far right, Chega

Party won a record vote share and could emerge as the main opposition. It was Portugal's third election in three years, and the political instability

has economic consequences. It even threatens the long delayed privatization of TAP Air Portugal.

Now, who is interested in buying TAP? Well, seemingly everyone, all big three groups -- Lufthansa, Air France-KLM IAG all would like to buy the

airline, which the government has said is for sale, but it is just sort of sorting it out.

[16:30:21]

Luis Rodrigues is the CEO of TAP Air Portugal, joins me from Los Angeles. I accept, sir, that this is going to be a decision taken by political

masters, but looking at the result of the election and knowing the party's positions, the winner looks like they're going to go ahead with the

privatization. Is that your understanding?

LUIS RODRIGUES, CEO, TAP AIR PORTUGAL: Hi, Richard, thanks for having us here today.

Listen, I've learned not to get into politics, right? That's the way we survive in this industry, particularly when the companies stayed down. Now,

having said that, it looks like much has not changed with the elections, and we trust the process will go on.

QUEST: If the process continues as expected. In a sense, the election sort of put things off of it. What is the timescale do you think?

RODRIGUES: Well, it depends now on how long the parties will take to agree to a new government. There's a political process that has to be respected.

Alongside that, the summer is coming, and there will be people taking time off and so on and so forth. I would expect sometime after the summer the

process to be resumed, but probably earlier. One never knows right now, it depends on the agreements that the elected people take.

QUEST: Right. Your job, of course, is to run the airline and put it in the best possible shape for passengers and for whoever might find in the

future.

So now, an enormous amount has been done. You have refreshed the fleet up to a certain point. You have refreshed the product, and you have very

strong roots to those parts of the world that the big three don't have. So, what do you now need to do with the airline?

RODRIGUES: I wish -- I wish I had nothing to do, but we still have a huge amount of work to do. I mean, we've done the basic part, which is to settle

things down, to calm everything, to bring social peace, and only after that we can now start to really shape the airline into what we want it to be in

the near future, which is driven by its employees, looking forward with to its customers and being technologically leading the way.

And we have a lot of work to do there. The airline is very unbalanced in some areas. Some areas we are doing very well. Some areas have been left

behind for a long time, and we have to catch up and bring things across the board, consistently good.

QUEST: That's about that. That's the trick, isn't it, consistency. And because the one thing about the industry, I mean, you just look at -- look

at today, the supply chain issues are hitting everybody. The engine problems are just hitting everybody. When you look at the number of planes,

aircraft on the ground, and even something like today, you will have seen the Lufthansa story today in the cockpit, which everybody in the industry

is talking about, the two person always in the cockpit, there's just a sheer multitude of issues that aviation seems to be facing today.

RODRIGUES: You know what, I keep learning from you, which is something I like to do. And we met -- the last time we talked about -- we talked to

each other was couple of months ago in Brussels, where you're doing an interviews with some of our colleagues, my colleagues, the CEOs, and you

used an expression which, which was, you guys, this industry tends to shoot itself in the foot consistently, which, frankly, I have to recognize you're

right.

Now, having said that, the history of this -- of this industry can be told from many angles, and one of them, we move from crisis to crisis until

survival is achieved.

And to work in this industry, I think your motto needs to be, keep calm and carry on. So yes, there will be turmoil, there will be unexpected events,

things we are not even planning, two things we don't think they might happen at all, but they will happen, and we've had those in the past. And

we'll -- we will survive, regardless of what everybody else is going through, regardless of we had this energy blackout. We have the sustainable

aviation fuel story. We have the engines issue. We have political changes. We will survive.

[16:35:11]

QUEST: We will talk again, probably in Delhi, where we're all at IATA. I'm grateful to you, sir. Thank you so much.

RODRIGUES: Thank you for having us here and have a good trip back to Delhi.

QUEST: Thank you.

Boeing has landed a record deal last week when the state carrier Qatar Airways placed a firm order for 160 planes and more options for another 50.

It was during the president -- President Trump's visit. The CEO of Qatar Airways says he's not worried about Boeing's delays. He was speaking to

Becky Anderson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BADR MOHAMMED AL-MEER, CEO, QATAR AIRWAYS: This is why there was a change in the management of Boeing. This is why Kelly and Stephanie came and took

over the management of Boeing to address all of these issues.

And we don't -- we don't need to focus on Boeing only. Airbus has their -- they have the same problem. They have delays and deliveries. G.E. has the

same problem. Rolls Royce has the same problem. It's all linked to supply chain.

We have delays and the deliveries of Airbus as we speak now, we have delays with Boeing as well, but we understand and we have trust that Boeing will

be able to overcome these issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Stay with aviation. The Spanish safety officials say a Lufthansa flight was in the sky for 10 minutes without an active pilot at the

controls.

According to the report, the incident last year began when the captain went to use the toilet. The copilot fainted. He was alone in the cockpit. It was

an A321, it was on autopilot when the captain returned from the bathroom, multiple attempts to open the door using a code, but of course, the pilot -

- co pilot couldn't let him in.

Eventually, he used the emergency code, which the pilot was able to retake control. Lufthansa says it's conducted its investigation, but did not give

any details.

This would all be more remarkable, of course, except its Lufthansa Group, and it was in the Lufthansa Group where Germanwings had the incident in

2015 where the pilot flew the plane into the ground.

Mary Schiavo is with me. And this was not supposed to be able to happen again. And I note from my research tonight, look, they had the new rule at

2015 where it had to be two people in the cockpit, two persons always. Then they changed it at 2017 to give you option to go back to the old rule if

you were happy with risk. Well, what do you make of it?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I think it's outrageous. I mean, and there are studies in the United States, one in particular that did a

five year snapshot from 93 to 98 and they found they had of all the inflight and medical emergencies, and there were, surprisingly, 50 of them

in the U.S. in that time, they had two accidents, but no deaths, and they credited the two person cockpit rules.

So, you have to have two pilots, as you know, but then if one of those pilots goes to the restroom, the flight attendant comes in, and that has

been credited with many times.

So, for Germanwings and other airlines there -- I mean, Lufthansa, they're not alone. Many countries have just left it up to the airline for them to

drop this after Germanwings.

And by this way, their group extends to other countries and other airlines, Swiss Air, for example. So, nations have just said, oh, it's up to you

airline. And that seems like a ridiculous amount of risk, because it happens.

QUEST: Oh, but Mary, I read the report from the -- from the -- as a regulator in 2016. Now, they said that they looked at this and that there

was no evidence that the risk was greater by not having two in the cockpit. They said and Lufthansa also says when they've looked at it, that actually

it made no difference whether you had two persons in or not.

SCHIAVO Well, that's right. In terms of what they looked at, did they look at actual accident rates or death rates?

Now, what happens is, in the studies in the U.K., did a study to the U.K. did a 2004 snapshot, and I think they found a 36 instances of piloting

incapacitation, just a snapshot.

And in many cases, the you know, also, the good result was due to diversion. They diverted, and the causes of these inca --

QUEST: Oh, we seem to have lost Mary. Are you there, Mary?

SCHIAVO: -- surprises, panic for example.

QUEST: We can -- we can hear you. I think we've lost your vision. Oh, no, we can see you again there.

It's particularly I was going to say embarrassing, in a sense, for Lufthansa. And my understanding at the airline is that they're pretty

tonight, having, you know, senior sources telling me, look, having that pretty -- they're obviously embarrassed, but they're shocked that this

should have happened, and they are reviewing.

[16:40:02]

My guess is they will go back to a two person in the cockpit rule, if only because the traveling public will have to be reassured.

SCHIAVO: That's right. And plus now they've blown the cover of another safety measure. They now -- the world now knows, and terrorists included,

that they have a separate code, another code that they can actually use to get into the cockpit. And back in 9/11 they, of course, the terrorists,

held knives to the throats of flight attendants and demanded the codes and keys. Back then it was key.

So, now, yet another security measure has been blown. So, it is shocking that this is Lufthansa after the Germanwings incident, and, of course,

after the 9/11 incidents in the United States.

QUEST: We've got a minute or two, or a minute. Newark, poor old Newark. I fly out of Newark all the time, of course, with -- because I'm a United, I

fly a lot. And it's a bit -- look, it's just -- it's just downright worrying, and it needs money spending, and this is just the story of U.S.

aviation infrastructure across the board.

SCHIAVO: Well, it is the story of U.S. aviation infrastructure. But the Newark situation was an Federal Aviation Administration self-inflicted

wound.

Last July, they involuntarily transferred some people to Philadelphia. They moved the Tracon, the radar approach, the direction, if you will, for lay

people into Newark into Philadelphia. It was a mishmash, sums out of New York, sums out of Philadelphia. The controllers can't talk to each other.

This was a self-inflicted wound by the FAA.

QUEST: I'm grateful for you, as always, the blunt analysis from Mary that we've come to know and love. Thank you, Ma'am. I'm grateful.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

QUEST: Going to leave you with the markets very quickly to show you what's been happening there. The Dow is up, it was down, then it was back up

again.

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. A final quick thought on the Lufthansa situation, my guess is Lufthansa decides to reinstate the two

person rule across all its airlines, if only because it's the traveling public. It's the summer season, and they're going to want to increase as

much confidence as possible.

But hey, what do I know about it? Where's the bell? Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable.

Santiago Next, a WORLD OF WONDER by Jingo (ph). It's good.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:45:42]

QUEST (voice over): I'm Richard Quest. I love traveling the world, and I'm not done yet.

It's time to embrace new adventures.

QUEST: Doesn't get much better than this.

QUEST (voice over): Seize the moments in this WORLD OF WONDER.

QUEST: This is great. I love the music. Can you hear it?

QUEST (voice over): Only steps into a city square and I'm waltzing. And my boss (ph) already smiling.

"BONDI" BEAU: I don't have to work too hard to find things to film here, because, honestly, there's stuff everywhere.

QUEST: On any given day, right in the center, you don't have to look or listen for long before you will hear the sound, the chinchineros.

BEAU: Here they are.

QUEST (voice over): These are the chinchineros, the street performers that go back generations here in Chile. Think one man band mixed with whirling

dervish.

QUEST: You see how they hold one of them with the drum like that and then on just with a stick.

BEAU: The bird sings.

QUEST: I could not do two revolutions without getting dizzy.

QUEST (voice over): Now we are about to put that to the test. Manuel (ph) decides it's my turn.

QUEST: Whoa, whoa. It's heavier than you thought.

QUEST (voice over): Instructions such as they are a brief.

And just like that, I'm a chinchineroing part of the Lizana family.

QUEST: Hey, a new career. That was an amazing way to start my visit to Santiago, and if it's any indication of the experiences I'm going to have

here in Chile, this visit is going to be epic.

QUEST (voice over): Chile is a geographical Marvel, at 4,000 kilometers north to south is one of the longest countries in the world, on one side

the Pacific Ocean, the Andes Mountains are on the other. And the capital, Santiago, right in the center, it's where most visits start.

QUEST: I love a fruit and veg market.

FELIPE SANCHEZ, RESTAURANTEUR AND FOOD BLOGGER: This is your heaven then.

QUEST (voice over): Felipe Sanchez has only just met me, and it seems he's got the measure.

QUEST: They are very proud of their tomatoes, and rightly so. Look at these.

QUEST (voice over): Felipe is a restauranteur and food blogger, and he has proudly shown me the La Vega Central Market.

QUEST: What do we got going on over here?

SANCHEZ: Cured like fresh fruit juices.

QUEST: Do you have any money? If you

SANCHEZ: You come to Chile, you have to try our sandwiches, because it's one of our national emblems, OK? This is the place Donde el Nano. This is a

typical sandwich joint here in Chile.

QUEST (voice over): Chile has a serious love for sandwiches. It dates back to the mid 1800s and it makes perfect sense. It was a convenient food for

those travelers making long journeys. Today, those simple sandwiches have grown into monsters.

[16:50:01]

SANCHEZ: And here you have one of the best dishes in Chile.

QUEST (voice over): Felipe is, if you will, the sommelier of sandwiches. He spent a whole year eating a different Chilean sandwich every day.

QUEST: How many sandwiches have you eaten?

SANCHEZ: In the last three years, more than 2000 sandwiches.

QUEST (voice over): First up, the completo.

SANCHEZ: We don't like American hot dogs. For us, that's not a real hot dog. This is it. The completo.

QUEST: Completo.

SANCHEZ: So, we have smashed avocado, tomatoes, and you have homemade mayonnaise.

QUEST (voice over): This is impossible to eat with hands alone.

SANCHEZ: Chile will love you if you can do it.

QUEST: This is huge.

SANCHEZ: That's the Chilean way. You did it, my friend. It's part of it.

QUEST: So good.

SANCHEZ: It's almost a salad, if you think about it.

QUEST: It's a Tokyo salad. Why do they love big sandwiches?

SANCHEZ: I think it's because, like, we're a very hard working class, and we need a lot of energy for the whole day.

QUEST: But these are huge.

SANCHEZ: They are, I'm very proud of it.

QUEST: The idea of a sandwich was something you could eat on the go, quick and easy.

SANCHEZ: Yes, but we go against it.

QUEST: Now, the next famous one is the --

SANCHEZ: You can say it, I trust you.

QUEST: Chacarero.

SANCHEZ: Chacarero

QUEST: Chacarero.

SANCHEZ: Chacarero. Which has green beans, it has a little bit of spice, because it has green chili. And look at this. This is the beef tongue.

QUEST: I love beef tongue. This is delicious. This is very good. And this one is the?

SANCHEZ: This is the best seller. This one is Churrasco.

QUEST: Churrasco.

SANCHEZ: Churrasco, thinly sliced beef. That's your favorite.

QUEST: Yes, this is my favorite.

QUEST (voice over): I don't think I've eaten so much bread for years, but that's a good thing, because all these carbs will be needed and put to good

use in the coming days.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: It's perfect, absolute perfect time of year to be here. Well, the few times we've actually managed to hit it right.

QUEST (voice over): From Santiago, it's easy to get to the coast. And everyone said, I must visit of Valparaiso, once nicknamed little San

Francisco. Obvious, perhaps because of its 40 plus hills. And as the saying goes, he who goes up must come down. And I might as well have some fun

doing it.

There are paintings here and over there. In fact, take a ride and look around. There are endless murals, because here there are artists galore,

and they all want to express themselves, usually larger than life.

QUEST: I see here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Completo.

QUEST: Completo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Complete.

QUEST: I had my first completo yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You like?

QUEST: Yes, yes.

QUEST (voice over): No one has ever mistaken me for an artist. Sopity Guillermo Grandki (ph) dragooned into teaching me to paint.

SOPITY GUILLERMO GRANDKI, ARTIST (through translator): Today we are going to paint the landscape of Paseo Atkinson.

[16:55:02]

QUEST: You have one problem. I can't paint.

GRANDKI (through translator): I've always sought improvisation.

QUEST: What could be more than improvizational?

QUEST (voice over): Guillermo is either a saint or a fool, probably both, because I'm about to butcher the image of Paseo Atkinson, this lovely

promenade that happens to be a UNESCO heritage site.

QUEST: I'm a painting in oils.

GRANDKI (through translator): Yes, olio. It's much easier to make the mixtures of the colors on the palette.

QUEST (voice over): Guillermo is an expressionist.

GRANDKI: House, sky.

QUEST (voice over): And a man of few words while painting.

GRANDKI: Hills.

QUEST: Hills, right. Oh, so that's this skyline. That's there, and that's a bit of the hills here. How many times have you painted this?

GRANDKI (through translator): 50 times.

QUEST: And what do you see different every time.

GRANDKI: Always different.

QUEST: Why? How?

GRANDKI: The light.

QUEST (voice over): Chris (ph) is from the school of art that says, get the paint on the canvas however you can.

QUEST: Do you ever get tired of painting it?

GRANDKI (through translator): No, because it's always different. Besides, I live for this. It's my work. It's my life.

QUEST (voice over): This amateur knows when to stop.

QUEST: Unoriginal.

GRANDKI (through translator): Well, you got Valparaiso.

QUEST: Thank you very much, sir. Thank you.

QUEST (voice over): If my day had ended there, I would have been satisfied, but Valparaiso had one more surprise.

QUEST: Down a rickety path along the lane. This might be very well known locally, but it's not on the beaten track.

This is the sort of experience that every traveler hopes to discover that out of the way place.

It's gorgeous. It's this is exactly the sort of experience we all hope to discover when we go away.

The reality is almost never do you find it unless you're prepared to pay for a local guide or some sort of local knowledge if you really want to get

that authentic experience.

QUEST (voice over): Little did I know authentic was about to hit me square in the mouth.

QUEST: That was cold.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END