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Quest Means Business
Obama: Trump Accusations Of Treason Are Bizarre, Ridiculous; El- Erian Calls For U.S. Federal Reserve Chair To Step Down; Heavy Metal Icon, Ozzy Osbourne Dead At Age 76; E.U. Weighs Tougher Response If U.S. Trade Talks Fail; U.S. To Charge Some Visitors "Visa Integrity Fee." Aired 4-5p ET
Aired July 22, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:10]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": The closing bell is now ringing on Wall Street, and it is a very strange sort of day,
one way or another, we will get to all the reasons why. It is Grupo Reading the closing bell. See, you had a blip in the morning and it evaporates and
then as the day moves on, the gains accelerate for all sorts of very peculiar reasons. You can't put your finger on them.
But those are the markets and a strong gavel, a strong gavel. All is over. The main events that you and I are going to talk about.
One of the world's top economists goes out on a limb. Mohamed El-Erian is arguing Jerome Powell must quit to save the Fed. Mohamed is with me in just
a moment or three.
We traveled to Afghanistan to investigate the claim that the U.S. -- from the U.S. that no one has died from the administration cuts in foreign aid.
And Ozzy Osbourne, the godfather of heavy metal and reality T.V. pioneer has passed away at the age of 76, one week after his last concert.
Live from New York tonight, Tuesday, July the 22nd. I am Richard Quest and yes, I mean business.
Good evening.
We begin with extraordinary developments. A former president and a current president are trading barbs, the like of which you rarely see. Now, former
President Barack Obama has responded to President Trump's accusations of treason, I jest not.
Mr. Trump accused President Obama of trying to interfere in the 2016 election by probing alleged ties between his campaign and Russia. It is
complicated.
Now, in response, Mr. Obama's office said nothing in the document issued last week undercuts the widely accepted conclusion that Russia worked to
influence the election, but did not successfully manipulate the votes. There were formed and reformed by the bipartisan Senate Intelligence
Committee, led by the then Chairman, Marco Rubio.
What we have seen, the reason we are reporting that to you at the top of our agenda tonight is because President Trump gave the most extraordinary
press conference earlier today with a series of announcements, but we will get to it in just a moment.
In a day of unusual developments, one of the world's top economists is now saying the chair of the U.S. Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, should step
down. Mohamed El-Erian has called for Jerome Powell's resignation. It was a post on X this morning. He said: The White House criticism of the chairman
is beginning to include other officials and the Fed's mission itself.
Mohamed argues that Powell's resignation is necessary to protect the Central Bank's independence. He is currently on a train, so he is joining
QUEST MEANS BUSINESS on the phone.
Mohamed, thank you very much for joining, and obviously if we lose the connection, we completely understand.
It has made huge waves, this announcement or this decision of yours to say that Jerome Powell should resign. Your critics are saying no, no, no.
Mohamed says he is giving -- he should give in. If he gives in to a bully, if he resigns. So why do you think the Chair should go now?
MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, ECONOMIST AND ADVISOR, ALLIANZ: Look, I think, Richard my critics and I share the vital importance of Central Bank independence,
where we differ is how do you protect Central Bank independence? There is one view, which is Chair Powell could stay in office till May, that
regardless of whether that attracts even more political attacks, and there is another view, which is Chair Powell should step down in order to try to
defuse a very tense and increasingly dangerous situation for the Fed.
I worry that if Fed Chair Powell stays in position, we will see the attacks not on him personally, but expand to include more and more of the Fed's
operations and ultimately that will undermine Central Bank independence.
QUEST: It is the true definition of the dilemma. There is no good outcome here. And I know you're saying that first best is long since gone, but Alan
Blinder and others are saying if he does go because of this, then they've given in to the bully tactics of Donald Trump.
Now, obviously you're aware of that, but you're obviously saying on the balance of evil or balance of bad or balance of good, it is better that
way.
EL-ERIAN: Yes. So when you're far away from the first best and we are, we'd all like to be in the first best, whereby Chair Powell finishes his term
and the Fed is not attacked politically, but that's not the case.
[16:05:10]
The Fed is being attacked and will continue to be attacked as long as he is there. So when you're far away from the first best, whatever you do has
drawbacks.
So the question is what is the recoverable mistake? That's the real question, and allowing every aspect of the Fed to be attacked politically
is a non-recoverable mistake.
The other one is not present in ultimately with the Fed Chair resigning, but is it a recoverable mistake? So that's the world of the second best,
and unfortunately we are deep into the world of the second best.
QUEST: You obviously thought very long and hard before you wrote that, because if you just look at the furor of, you know, everybody saying, El-
Erian says Powell should go for the greater good of the Fed, and you must have realized this was going to be picked up by ourselves and others.
EL-ERIAN: Oh, I knew, and that's why I said up front, I know that this is not the consensus view. I know that that's not a popular view and
certainly, the commentary reflects that. But if you deeply think about it, and if you are totally committed to the importance of Central Bank
independence, which I am, it is hard to come to a different conclusion if the first best is not available.
I fear that a lot of critics believe in the first best, and I just don't see it, Richard.
QUEST: Do you see the replacements? The names out there for the replacement, be it next week or next May. You are quite sanguine about
them. You don't believe it is just going to be a rollover?
EL-ERIAN: Well, first of all, it is not going to be next May. What's going to happen is the minute that replacement is announced and that's going to
be the next few months, then Chair Powell becomes a lame duck in terms of forward policy guidance.
So basically, you're talking about a few months. There is no one out there that thinks that Chair Powell will be reappointed in May. So you're talking
about the differences of a few months. As to replacements, yes, quite a few of the names on the short list that is circulating are people that I
believe are credible and that would defend the integrity of the Central Bank, but would not come with the baggage that Chair Powell has in terms of
policy mistakes and other elements.
QUEST: Mohamed, thank you, sir. The broadcasting gods were with us. We got a good interview out of you on a train, which is an achievement in itself.
Thank you for joining us and putting that in perspective. Thank you.
Kevin Liptak is at the White House.
Let's deal first with this business of Obama and the press conference, then, we will just talk about the Fed at the back end. It is just -- I
mean, look, we are all over the place. Let's be honest with our dear viewer. It is the sort of day today.
First, the President -- the existing President calls Obama a traitor. Now Obama says Trump is bizarre and ridiculous. What do you make of it all?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, you know, it is surprising. You don't actually hear from President Obama. This is a
statement from his office, but you don't hear from his office all that often responding directly to something that President Trump said,
particularly responding within a matter of hours, and so the speed and sort of the velocity that they put this out, I think is pretty notable and
speaks to some of the sort of shock that they felt at hearing President Trump in the Oval Office sitting next to the Philippine President, accused
of Obama of treason, saying that he was seditious, saying that he orchestrated a coup through these allegations that are related to the
investigation into Russia's interference into the 2016 election.
And so, you know, this is long been in the back of the President's head. It was an investigation that did cloud the first two years of his first
administration. He thought that undercut his entire legitimacy as commander-in-chief, and it is something that he has never really given up.
The one thing that they point to in this statement from the Obama office is the Senate Intelligence Report that was released in 2020, that affirmed the
Intelligence Community's assessment that Russia did try to interfere in the election, and they make note that it was led by Marco Rubio, who is
obviously now President Trump's Secretary of State.
QUEST: Right.
LIPTAK: Trying to sort of underscore that these were legitimate findings.
QUEST: Then you have the whole question of the Fed, and again I mean, the President, the current President seems to sort of have accepted that Powell
is going to be there, at least for a few more months and not likely to be fired, but there is no question the damage that's being done by all of
this.
Do they care at the White House the damage that's being done to the Fed?
LIPTAK: No. Well, I don't think that the President himself cares. It is an open question of whether people like Scott Bessent, the Treasury Secretary;
Kevin Hassett, the top economist in the White House who I should mention are both named as potential successors to Powell, they may have some
concerns about undermining the independence of the Fed and the potential effect that could have on the global economy.
[16:10:08]
But at least from President Trump's own perspective, he very clearly sees the Fed as an extension of the White House and of the administration.
When he says that Powell should cut rates, it is his view that Powell will cut rates. And, you know, he does seem accepting of the fact that Powell
will remain in the job for the next eight months, but that doesn't mean that he is not going to make it a very, very uncomfortable eight months for
Powell.
You know, just on Thursday, two days from now, there will be representatives from the White House going to tour the Fed building, trying
to assess these claims that the Fed has overspent on its renovations. And so you can see how going forward, there will be these events after events,
after events, whether they continue to kind of make Powell's life hell in a way.
He has made very clear he is not going to resign, but that doesn't mean that they are not going to let up on this.
QUEST: Busy day. Thank you, I am grateful, Kevin Liptak.
Look, I bet it is not very often, if ever, that you ever thought you'd be reporting on one President, saying another was treasonous. I mean, you know
--
LIPTAK: Oh, no, I think you could have well expected that in this administration. I don't know that it was all that much of a surprise.
Maybe, maybe.
QUEST: One for the books. All right, thank you. Good to see you.
Now, sad news. Now, the legendary heavy metal icon, Ozzy Osbourne has died at the age of 76. His family says he passed away this morning surrounded by
relatives. The death comes only a week after he performed a farewell concert with his former Black Sabbath bandmates, and it marks the end of a
decades long transition from the Prince of Darkness to the beloved reality T.V. star.
Stephanie Elam has a look back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): He was called the Prince of Darkness.
And for half a century, British musician, Ozzy Osbourne rocked heavy metal fans worldwide. As frontman for Black Sabbath, Osbourne's charisma and
wildness on and off the stage --
OZZY OSBOURNE, BLACK SABBATH FRONTMAN: Had I known it was a real battle, I would never have bitten into it.
ELAM (voice over): Transcended music and made him a cultural phenomenon.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ozzy Osbourne --
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ELAM (voice over): Born in Birmingham, England in 1948, John "Ozzy" Osbourne left school at 15 and found inspiration after hearing the Beatles
on the radio.
OSBOURNE: I can remember the first time I heard "She Loves You" that changed my life because I thought, that's what I want to do.
ELAM (voice over): Osbourne became lead vocalist of the band that would become Black Sabbath in 1968, and pioneered a daring, genre defining new
sound.
The heavy guitar and riff based albums "Black Sabbath" and "Paranoid" captivated audiences in 1970.
As Black Sabbath's fame exploded, so did Osbourne's hell-raising behavior. He was fired from Black Sabbath for drug and alcohol abuse in 1979, those
same issues broke up Osbourne's first marriage and followed him for decades.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Have you been tempted to go back to the drug usage?
OSBOURNE: All the time. I mean, when you're a drug addict, you don't stop being a drug addict because you stop taking them.
ELAM (voice over): But Sharon Arden, the daughter of Black Sabbath's manager, helped get him back on his feet and encouraged him to go solo.
Osbourne's debut single, "Crazy Train," got the singer back on the rails. Ozzy and Sharon married in 1982, and Sharon managed his career for the rest
of his life.
Their love was on full display to an entirely new audience in the 2002 MTV reality series "The Osbournes."
Ozzy's dry, at times unintelligible humor and relatable parenting challenges endeared him to millions, and the fly on the wall look at the
Osbourne's expletive-laden daily life shot the family to fame.
After years of speculation about his health, Osbourne revealed his Parkinson's disease diagnosis in an interview with "Good Morning America"
in 2020.
But Osbourne was committed to making more music and three years later, he won two Grammys for his album "Patient Number Nine," bringing his Grammy
total to five.
Osbourne reunited with his bandmates over the years.
To record their last album, "13" and for Black Sabbath's final "The End" Concert Tour in 2016.
Osbourne made over 20 albums and is among the elite group inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame twice.
From Prince of Darkness to reality T.V. show dad, Ozzy Osbourne was a man, a myth, and a legend.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Joining me now from Los Angeles is the entertainment journalist, Segun Oduolowu. Good to see you. I am grateful you're with us.
I guess, I mean, the timing is extraordinary, isn't it? I mean, a week after the last concert and he passes away.
[16:15:10]
Do we know any more about the circumstances?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Well, we know that he had been battling Parkinson's, Richard, and had been sick for quite some time and
the concert that you referenced, you could see that he was diminished.
But as with all things, God does have a sense of irony that at a farewell tribute concert, he is able to perform and then passes away a few days
later.
But I want to focus on Ozzy Osbourne, the Rock God, the Prince of darkness. I believe that his voice is as singular in rock and roll music as a Freddie
Mercury. It is not really about the record sales. He had platinum records. It is not even really about, you know, the music videos. Ozzy Osbourne was
bigger than the genre to a lot of people.
He was their introduction into heavy metal and that, you know, rock and roll kind of lifestyle, biting the heads off bats; the antics like sex,
drugs and rock and roll, Ozzy embodied that. But then came "The Osbournes" where he is humanized in this kind of, you know, every man kind of father
dealing with what every father does, your children driving you crazy, your wife getting into arguments.
You know, "The Flintstones" had Fred screaming, "Wilma" and Ozzy would be screaming "Sharon."
QUEST: And wonderfully called.
ODUOLOWU: And I think for so many genres, Ozzy crossed over. If you knew him in the 70s and the 80s, it was that rock and roll and in the 90s, going
into the 2000, there was a show.
QUEST: Let me jump in, because listening to the way you've described him, he is -- it is the true definition of a musician and an entertainer in that
sense, the versatility to have been brilliant at his music and having a character that was larger than life that he was able to parlay into other
aspects of entertainment, that's an achievement.
ODUOLOWU: Absolutely, Richard. You have -- you've hit the nail squarely on the head. I defy anyone to listen to Ozzy's voice from the 80s up until his
last record and say that it lost a lot of its power and everything that he went through, all the trials and tribulations, he was an artist.
The music is still good testament to the Grammy's. He was winning later in his career, so he never lost his fastball when it came to putting out good
music.
But the fact that they allowed us into his life to see, like, what rock and roll star can we think of that would ever do that? See his mistakes and his
doddering and his mispronunciations, and then we still got this incredible music, this incredible catalogue.
Ozzy is one of the greats. Go back and listen to his music from the 80s, and I defy anyone to tell me that it is not workout music, drive around
music, ballads, rock -- it is everything.
QUEST: I am grateful, sir. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. I appreciate it. Thank you.
ODUOLOWU: Thank you, Richard.
QUEST: After the break, the claim is quite stark. The Trump administration says no one has died as a result of the near-total elimination of U.S. aid
to Afghanistan. So we did what CNN does best. We went to find out ourselves.
We went to the Taliban country to see firsthand how the cuts are impacting its most vulnerable people. In a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:21:24]
QUEST: One of the defining policies of the new Trump administration has been the almost elimination of foreign U.S. aid, best exemplified by the
massive cuts of nearly $2 billion to USAID with the organization just about out of business. Much of the money is now, of course, waiting to be
disbursed and hasn't been spent and when you put it all together, combined with cuts from Germany, France, U.K. and other countries, all following on
in Afghanistan, now people are left with no place to seek basic health care and aid groups say the slashing of this assistance, started by the United
States, is putting ordinary Afghans, especially women and children, at risk.
So what about what the U.S. administration says? The Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, denies all of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D-CA): Has anyone in the world died because of what Elon Musk did?
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Listen --
SHERMAN: Yes or no? Reclaiming my time. If you won't answer, that's a loud answer.
RUBIO: No one has died because of USAID --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: No one has died because of that, you heard him say there. Well, we went to find out.
CNN's Isobel Yeung, who has been to Afghanistan, to see the impact that the cuts are having.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISOBEL YEUNG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): We are in the Taliban's Afghanistan, a nation now dealing with huge foreign aid cuts.
YEUNG (on camera): The clinic we are actually heading towards was until just a few months ago, funded by the U.S. government. Now that Trump
administration has pulled the funding, a lot of people in this area are left with not even basic health care facilities.
YEUNG (voice over): The U.N. estimates that an Afghan woman dies every two hours from pregnancy or childbirth. This clinic has now closed.
YEUNG (on camera): This is where women were giving birth.
SAMIRA SAYED RAHMAN, ADVOCACY DIRECTOR, SAVE THE CHILDREN AFGHANISTAN: Yes. You know, this is the only clinic in in this area, and now it is gone.
YEUNG (on camera): Afghanistan has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world, right? What happens to these women now that the
delivery room is gone?
RAHMAN: It means that these communities don't have access. It means that women are going to be giving birth at home, meaning more and more children
are going to die during childbirth.
YEUNG (on camera): We were just talking to the community leaders who were telling us that seven people have died since this clinic closed, and just a
couple of days ago, a woman died in childbirth because there was nowhere for her to give birth.
YEUNG (voice over): When we followed up, the woman's neighbors and family told us that if the clinic had been open and she had had the support of a
midwife, she would have survived.
Across Afghanistan, over 400 clinics have closed because of U.S. aid cuts. Millions of people were reliant on these clinics for healthcare. Now their
only option is to travel hours, sometimes days, to public hospitals like this, where there is an influx of new patients.
The U.S. was funding doctors, nurses and essential drugs here, but now that's also gone.
YEUNG (on camera): Salam! Salam! How are you?
DR. ANIDULLAH SAMIN, NANGARHAR REGIONAL HOSPITAL: These have the capacity for just one baby and we have under ours three babies here.
YEUNG (on camera): Yes, it is crowded.
SAMIN: Yes, it is crowded. Yes.
YEUNG (on camera): Is this normal?
SAMIN: No. No, not normal. When they cut the air here, our mortality rate about three of our percent.
YEUNG (on camera): So three to four percent more babies are dying since the U.S. cut the aid.
SAMIN: Yes, yes, yes.
YEUNG (on camera): Wow.
YEUNG (voice over): Malnutrition has soared here, 9.5 million people are severely food insecure. Several NGOs previously funded by the U.S. are now
turning away many people in desperate need of food.
[16:25:09]
Mohammed Omar (ph) has severe malnutrition and meningitis. The family are poor and were only recently able to bring him the long distance to this
hospital.
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
TRANSLATION: When did he become like this?
(NAZOGUL speaking in foreign language.)
TRANSLATION: Early in the morning.
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
TRANSLATION: You said it was diarrhea at first and then it got worse.
(NAZOGUL speaking in foreign language.)
TRANSLATION: Yes, it started with diarrhea.
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
TRANSLATION: Since when has he not been able to eat?
(NAZOGUL speaking in foreign language.)
TRANSLATION: It has been a long time since he could eat on his own.
YEUNG (on camera): I am so sorry for what you're going through. Can I ask what your name is?
NAZOGUL, MOTHER: My name is Nazogul. He is my grandson.
YEUNG (on camera): How old is he?
(NAZOGUL speaking in foreign language.
TRANSLATION: He just turned one.
YEUNG (on camera): What is his situation? What has the doctor said?
(NAZOGUL speaking in foreign language.)
TRANSLATION: Doctors say that a microbe has infected his brain. He's unconscious now. You can see that the child's condition is very bad.
YEUNG (voice over): In the middle of speaking, we looked over and realized the child had stopped breathing.
Keep breathing. Keep breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to go.
YEUNG (on camera): We need to be outside. Move, move, move.
I'm sorry.
Mohammed's mother returns to the room and the most devastating news.
(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALES crying)
YEUNG (on camera): This is just one family of so many thousands of families that are having to live through this, and it is utterly heart wrenchingly
devastating.
YEUNG (voice over): It is impossible to definitively blame one single factor for Mohammed's death. He was suffering from a range of serious
illnesses, but aid cuts have dealt a devastating blow here.
Cancelling aid to Afghanistan has long been a goal for Congressman Tim Burchett.
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): $5 billion in cash --
YEUNG (voice over): Claiming five billion U.S. taxpayer dollars have gone directly to the ruling Taliban, a designated terrorist group.
But the U.S. government's own watchdog says it is more like $11 million. The vast majority of money goes to those it is intended for.
YEUNG (on camera): Are you intentionally misleading the American public when it comes to inflating these figures, so that you can get what you
want?
BURCHETT: No, ma'am, I am not. As a matter of fact, $11 million is still a whole lot of money to the average American. If it is one penny going to the
Taliban, they'll hate us for free.
YEUNG (on camera): What would you say to -- I mean, there are millions of Afghans who are going to be affected by this.
BURCHETT: I would say you're going to have to make it on your own.
YEUNG (on camera): Hundreds of clinics across the country have now closed down. I literally watched a baby die from malnutrition. What would you say
to these families who are living through desperate circumstances, devastated by the results of your actions?
BURCHETT: I think its horrific, but it is not due to my actions, ma'am. We don't have any more money. We are borrowing that money. And again --
YEUNG (on camera): But it is due to your actions. I mean, you have been advocating for this for the last couple of years.
BURCHETT: These are people that -- these are people that -- no, ma'am. No, ma'am. it is not our response. We have Americans in the same position. We
have Americans that are having trouble with childbirth. We have Americans going hungry and you want us to borrow money and send it overseas.
YEUNG (voice over): With the U.S. turning away, the fate of Afghans is now left in the hands of their own government, the Taliban, who say they are
capable of running the country without foreign aid. They denied our requests for an interview, but it is the country's most vulnerable, women
and children who is damned to lose the most, now, facing an isolated future without the support of those who once came to their aid.
Isobel Yeung, CNN, Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Now, we asked the State Department -- the U.S. State Department to comment on Isobel's reporting, and so far we have received no response from
the government.
This is CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:40]
QUEST: The European Union is said to be preparing a more aggressive response if trade talks with the U.S. fail. Some European firms may stand
to benefit if the bloc promotes more investment opportunities at home or indeed allows M&A activity. Competitiveness has been the top priority for
the E.U. ever since the Draghi report, yes, I said it. The Draghi report came out in September.
France's Emmanuel Macron told me back in February anything that kills competitiveness, competitiveness, beg of a pardon, needs to be rethought.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: We have to accelerate this competitiveness agenda for A.I. and the other sectors. So this is a
strategy and this is how Europe can bridge the gap. In the current situation Europe is lagging behind. Everything, which is a killer for
competitiveness of the European industry has to be reassessed, postponed or canceled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now Nigel Wellings, there he is, the co-head of corporate operations in Europe at law firm Clifford Chance.
Nigel, it is good to see you. Thank you. And the gap, look, you advise companies and the gap between reality and just talking about it and
competitiveness is huge. On M&A do you see much change coming down the road?
NIGEL WELLINGS, CO-HEAD OF EUROPEAN CORPORATION, CLIFFORD CHANCE: Yes. Look, I think in terms of competitiveness and change, there's a lot going
on at the moment. I mean I think we've seen this year probably people expected a stronger start to the year. You know we expected inflation and
rates to be a better environment for M&A and perhaps a more stable environment than we've had because of some of the U.S. actions in the
tariffs.
But in Europe, it's probably fared a bit better. So I think we have seen signs of better M&A activity in Europe than we expected. And there's some
momentum.
QUEST: But, you know, when we look at --
WELLINGS: In terms of competitiveness --
QUEST: When we look at things like the Draghi report and your clients come to you and sort of say we're trying to do this deal but the commission
won't allow it, or if it's in the U.K., the market access rules are so difficult or there's so much bureaucracy, and this is really causing a huge
productivity loss for the continent.
WELLINGS: Yes. Look, I think we've seen some positive areas of change there as well.
[16:35:02]
We saw in the changes in the CMA earlier in the year and at the turn of the year are really much more positive, pro-growth sentiment coming through.
And I think that the devil is always in the detail a little bit with regulation, as you might expect. It becomes more nuanced. But certainly
what we're seeing with clients, if you look at the CMA, is a better openness and a better openness to certainly trying to facilitate
transactions by at least shortening them.
So perhaps not necessarily removing oversight, but we are seeing better outcomes in phase one. For example, the U.K. CMA has a two-phase approach,
as many regulators do, but we're seeing them being open to talk about stronger remedies in that phase one and therefore clear deals. And we've
seen real examples of that coming through.
QUEST: When Christine Lagarde last year gave her speech, her now famous speech to the banking conference, and she basically said that banking union
and open market access across the E.U. has still got so much further to go. There are so many barriers between -- you know, I'm still amazed that, for
example, brokers in the U.K., which is not part of the same issue with she was about, you know, still charge a fee just to do a transaction, whereas
in the U.S., of course they don't. And even to hold on to your shares, they do.
The gap, I just wonder what it's going to take for reality to sink in that this root and branch change needs to take place.
WELLINGS: Yes. Again, I think you're seeing a couple of -- it does take time. I'm not going to say it doesn't, but again, you had Rachel Reeves
presentation at Mansion House last week trying to bring in some regulatory change in the U.K., listing rules to facilitate M&A. And while it's not
necessarily a pure driver for M&A, certainly trying to facilitate and more recently there's been, if you take the financial services, M&A sector that
we've seen, we've seen a lot of activity there.
And you've recently seen the E.U. coming out and being really quite stringent in saying that local member states should not be blocking mergers
that can create European champions. And that's really quite a big shift.
QUEST: Right.
WELLINGS: So I do agree with you that it takes time, but I think there is a sentiment there that we're hearing quite loudly.
QUEST: Nigel, I'm grateful to have you with us tonight. Thank you very much, sir, for joining us. Thank you.
Now, depending on which country you're coming from and the reason you're going, and if you're going to the U.S., be prepared. It could cost you an
extra $250. It's called the visa integrity fee. It's baked into the so- called big beautiful bill. It's for all visitors who need a nonimmigrant visa.
So let's be clear. We're not talking about tourists or business travelers under the visa waiver, which is most of the E.U. countries. But if you're
going on a student or you're from a country that requires a visa, you pay the fee. And the Trump administration says you may get it back if you're a
good visitor. But it's a may and no one quite clear how that would actually work.
The chief executive of the U.S. Travel Association, Geoff Freeman joins me from Washington.
Jeff, this is the last thing you needed, isn't it? The absolute last thing you need. 11 million visas a year are issued for nonimmigrant purposes to
come and visit the United States. And now there's a $250 fee.
GEOFF FREEMAN, CEO, U.S. TRAVEL ASSOCIATION: Yes. Richard, if we didn't have enough problems getting international visitors to the United States,
we've just made it more difficult with this, this deterrence fee. I mean, this is a fee, a junk fee that would make Ticketmaster blush. We are going
overboard right now in discouraging people from coming. And make no mistake who these visitors are. These are visitors from Brazil, from Argentina,
from other parts of South America, from parts around the world where visas are required.
We've just added $1,000 for a family of four who otherwise would have spent that money at small businesses. They otherwise would have spent that money
in the U.S. economy, and instead they're giving it over to the government in some cynical way to reduce the American deficit. It's extremely
disappointing.
QUEST: And I also loved it. I've got the rule here. I'm sure you've read it in its original words as well. It says the secretary may provide a
reimbursement. There's no -- there's no given about it. And you've got to prove that you were a -- I mean, obviously you've got to leave on time, et
cetera, et cetera. And only then may you get it back. And by all accounts, there's no process in place to actually reimburse.
FREEMAN: Let's understand what happened here. This was not a thoughtful exercise. We had this bill go through Congress. They needed to come up with
new forms of revenue, and somebody thought it would be a good idea to tax foreign travelers coming into the country.
Already we are not back to pre-pandemic numbers when it comes to visitors to the United States. These are people that want to come for the World Cup.
They want to come for America's 250th birthday.
[16:40:02]
They want to come for the Olympics in 2028. The biggest deterrent to visiting the United States right now is cost.
QUEST: Right.
FREEMAN: And somebody in Congress thought it would be a good idea to increase those costs. I couldn't think of a more imbecilic thing for us to
be doing right now.
QUEST: Geoff, I know it's a tricky issue, and people don't want to be sort of criticizing policies. I'm aware of it, I get it, but the numbers are
starting to weaken quite considerably inbound. Yes, we can massage them in the summer and they're looking a little bit better because people will
come. But by and large, when I say people are shunning the United States, you know what I mean. It is -- people are starting to say it's simply not
worth the trouble or now the expense.
FREEMAN: You know, I think we have an interesting dynamic going on with travel to the United States. We have some markets that are down. We've seen
that in Western Europe. We've certainly seen it in Canada. We have other markets that are up. Mexico is up 15 percent. So I don't think you can
paint it with a wide brush here as to what's happening. There are a lot of people who want to come to the United States.
The United States remains the world's most desired nation to visit, according to all the surveys. But you're right, Richard, that in some
markets around the world they're not traveling to the U.S. in the numbers they used to, let alone the numbers we aspire to get to. We've got to make
sure the U.S. is welcoming. We let people know what our policies are, what our procedures are. We've got to remove unnecessary fees, not add them.
Heck, when it comes to visas, we're now charging people to wait 100, 200, 300 days just to get an interview for a visa. It's these types of obstacles
we have to remove to make the U.S. competitive. I'll say this, the White House has been outspoken about making the World Cup a success, about making
the Olympics a success. In this instance, the problem did not come from the White House.
This was an imbecilic approach by somebody in Congress who thought it would be a good idea to create some new form of revenue on the backs of the
people who want to do nothing more than support the U.S. economy.
QUEST: Right. Well, no doubt where you're standing on this, and we're grateful to have had you on the program tonight, and we'll talk more. It's
always good to see you, sir.
In QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, we put such an emphasis on travel and tourism for good reason. It's the largest single industry in the world, and it deserves
proper coverage. Thank you, sir, for joining us. I'm grateful for this.
Before I love you and leave you tonight, Wall Street, I want to show you the quick numbers. It's mixed as earnings and direction of trade talks. The
Dow was actually quite healthy by the time all was said and done. The S&P added slightly and the Nasdaq just retreated marginally. Overall, that's
the way the markets were looking.
That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. "World of
Wonder." I'm back on my boat in Turkey and you'll want to join me. It's after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:41]
QUEST: Oh, my goodness.
I'm Richard Quest. I love traveling the world.
And I'm not done yet.
It's time to embrace new adventures.
This is magnificent.
Seize the moment in this WORLD OF WONDER.
This month I'm exploring a section of Turkey's southwest coastline. Locals call it the turquoise coast. Life on board boats is all about being
prepared, and that means having the right equipment.
This is what I love. All the stuff that you have to buy to go with the yacht.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is magnetic.
QUEST: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're all magnetic.
QUEST: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't -- it doesn't move.
QUEST: Oh, I like that. Oh, that's cool.
Whether I'm on a traditional Turkish gulet or a super yacht, I must always look the part. In times past, to get ahead, get a hat was a much loved
phrase. It's one I've tried to follow, but, oh, dear.
My hat is disgraceful. I need to get a new hat. No, no, I need to get a new hat. Something sort of stylish. Now look at this. This is very -- this is
what it should look like. This is what it should look like. But mine is starting to look disreputable. I need to go and buy a hat after we finish
here. Yes, look at this. This is all -- look at. This is -- this is quality. Thank you, sir.
Now we should be able to find a hat here. Oh, that's very splendid, isn't it? I think this is the right color.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyday yachting.
QUEST: Everyday yachting and then this is for cocktails in -- the cocktails in the evening.
Now, hat on head, I'm back on board the Queen Duru, the gulet I chartered for the day. Well, the boat doesn't only come with its captain and crew.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Richard, we need you in the kitchen.
QUEST: Excellent.
Charters come with a chef who will prepare the meals. The food, by the way, costs extra.
How wonderful to see you.
DENIZ KURT, SUPERYACHT CHEF AND FOUNDER, ATLANTICO YACHT CREW: Welcome to my galley.
QUEST: Denise Kurt has spent hours in ship's galleys large and small. Normally, she provides chefs for superyachts. But today she's agreed to get
the apron on and remember what it's like when your kitchen barely has room to turn around.
KURT: Let's start with the shrimp stock.
QUEST: Oh, my god.
And today she's making risotto.
KURT: In the meantime, let's saute the shrimp. After the onion, I'm going to add the rice straight away.
QUEST: Now this is where it could all go horribly wrong for me.
KURT: Rice is singing. You hear? Singing.
QUEST: Your average white rice won't do.
KURT: No. Only arborio and Carnaroli rice.
QUEST: What?
KURT: Arborio.
QUEST: Arborio.
KURT: Or Carnaroli rice. I'm going to add salt and saffron.
QUEST: Oh, this looks magnificent. Oh, you can taste all the flavors. What's the number one thing that you tell chefs who want to work on yachts?
KURT: Always searching the best ingredients. They have to have knowledge of the variety of cuisines. You can't become a yacht chef directly from the
culinary school. You have to work in the restaurants like a couple of years to understand the dynamics, to see the different kind of requests, to make
every meal fascinating. So that's why after a while you become a chef, yacht chef.
[16:50:13]
QUEST: Being a yacht chef requires imagination, mixed with skill, layered on tact, and finish off with a sauce of charm. At this yacht show in the
seaside town of Gocek, I've been invited to be a judge in a competition for yacht chefs.
Look at this. It smells amazing. Street food elevated into gourmet creations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
QUEST: The first course is the traditional Turkish wedding stew. Presentation is lovely, isn't it? We have got Albanian style liver, which,
if I give the local pronunciation of my dear friend next to me is --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arnavut.
QUEST: Arnavut.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cigeri.
QUEST: Cigeri.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll explain a little bit about the second course.
QUEST: Please do.
One after the other I'm tasting their culinary miracles.
It's shell with braised lamb, plum salsa, and Kash kaval.
Concocted in small galleys, they're performing culinary miracles.
I love the presentation of that. This is the ring shaped dessert --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Halka tatlisi.
QUEST: Halka tatlisi. Tatlisi. Similar to Turkish style churros.
As Deniz said, these dishes require both skill and imagination.
There's a lot going on in this one.
Who am I to judge?
I am a dessert-a-holic.
I'd struggle to produce anything half as tasty even on dry land.
Thank you for your hard work. Wonderful. Thank you. Where are my shoes?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: The Queen Duru, my chartered gulet for the day, is a fine figure of a vessel. I'm in very good hands because this crew don't only sail the
boat, they build them as well in homemade boatyards nearby.
Look at all this. Do you build to order or do you just build and then hope to sell?
RAMAZAN KAYA, CAPTAIN, QUEEN DURU: (speaking in foreign language).
ISIL, PRODUCER FROM ISTANBUL: It's both. It's their cousins. Either they produce for themselves or they do it for others to selling purpose.
QUEST: OK, question. What makes a gulet different from a boat?
KAYA: Wooden.
QUEST: Really? You know, I guess I know what wooden is, right, but is it not the shape?
ISIL: The shape as well. And also the space it gives you.
QUEST: How long does it take to build?
ISIL: A boat of this size finishes in one year.
QUEST: One year?
KAYA: Yes.
QUEST: How much do they cost?
KAYA (through text translation): It depends. Some want mahogany. Some want interior design. There is no limit on the sea.
ISIL: He says --
QUEST: I knew we'd never get to the answer on this one.
ISIL: He says there is no limit --
QUEST: Yes, there's no -- are you any the wiser about how much this cost?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No idea.
QUEST: No, no idea. I don't think we're ever going to find out.
I've spent a lot of time on boats, but now it seems everyone wants me to get in the water. They've given me a motorized contraption that will help
me get into these hidden caves so I can really experience the turquoise sea.
[16:55:03]
Oh, wow.
There is no end of gadgetry that one can get to enhance the time spent on the water. Remember that sailing craft with the foil that flew through the
water? How about this version?
HAKAN ALTUNSOY, OWNER, HAUTE BOARDS: This is the e-foil. So what it does is it's on a foil. It has a propeller at the back. And this model has a
handlebar which makes it easier to ride. And it has this rubber dinghy looking inflatable thing around it. So it makes it really easy to lift off
from the water. It wants to do this move once it gets out of the water with your weight.
QUEST: The lift is at the back.
ALTUNSOY: Yes.
QUEST: Therefore it's -- now wait a minute, you're moving forward. The lift is coming up from the back.
ALTUNSOY: And turning right and left. With this model you have a handlebar. You can just, you know, shift your weight.
QUEST: Just it's shifting weight.
ALTUNSOY: Exactly. Shifting. It's not --
QUEST: There's no turning.
ALTUNSOY: Yes. No, not like that. Perfect. Exactly. That's how it is.
QUEST: All right. It's a bit terrifying. Now, what happens if I fall off besides I go in the water? I assume there's a kill switch that comes off of
it.
ALTUNSOY: Yes, it just once you let go, it just stops automatically.
QUEST: So that is what it's supposed to look like. My turn.
And as they say, what could possibly go wrong? Oh, yes. The insurance on the e-foil requires me to wear my helmet. I try, try and try again. My
producer, Tom, a valiant first go until --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neal, left. Neal, left.
QUEST: But of course, trust Australian artful Andrew to master this craft. Yes, I see you and you've won.
One of the many joys of traveling is that it enables us to enjoy new experiences, but more importantly perhaps, it helps to renew and revive old
friendships. And this trip has provided the opportunity for both.
Life is good. Sailing the unmissable waters along Turkey's southern coast, and you won't want to miss coming here for yourself. After all. Turquoise
Turkey, definitely part of our WORLD OF WONDER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
