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Quest Means Business

Red Cross Recovers Remains of Two More Hostages from Hamas; Fragile Gaza Ceasefire Tested on Multiple Fronts; Bank Stocks Rising on Strong Earnings; How Scammers Steal Millions Using Crypto ATMs; Scouting America Introduces Badges in A.I. and Cybersecurity. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 15, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:17]

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: This is quite funny. To be poetic about it, the Dow was like, you know, sound and fury signifying absolutely

nothing today. It went every which way and ended close to flat. Those are the markets and these are the main events.

Hamas' military wing says it has now handed over the bodies of all the hostages. It has access to.

Economic agita, bank earnings, they come in strong, but there is no shortage of warnings about the stock market from orienteering to

cybersecurity, and A.I., the scouts launch new merit badges to prepare young people for a tech-centric future.

Live from New York. It is Wednesday, October 15th. I am Paula Newton in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

And a very good evening to everyone. We do have some breaking news. The Israeli military says the Red Cross is bringing the remains of two more

hostages back from Gaza. After Hamas handed over the coffins, that was just a short time ago, you see the Red Cross vehicles there. This makes a total

of nine bodies recovered from Hamas out of 28 hostages who died or were killed in captivity.

Now the IDF is saying that one of the four bodies handed over on Tuesday was not of an Israeli hostage. And now Hamas says it has handed over, as we

were just saying, the hostage remains, that it actually has access to. The group says, and you can see from the video here that there are significant

efforts needed and special equipment to recover any other remains from that devastation that we are all looking at there in Gaza.

Senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and former Middle East negotiator for the U.S. State Department, Aaron David Miller

joins us.

Look, we have to begin here with the human toll. These families must be devastated by this breaking news that they were awaiting the remains of

their loved ones. And yet so many may not have that return home right now and that dignified burial.

AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes. I mean, I think this is more than a minor glitch or speed bump. The fact is, Hamas committed to

returning, hostages living and dead. They clearly have complied with those that are living.

The agreement, which was initialed by the Turks, the Emirati -- no, the Turks, the Egyptians, the Israelis and the Americans, I think talks about

returning deceased hostages in their possession. It may also contain a phrase that talks about exerting a maximum effort. I don't think, frankly,

the details are going to matter much. Clearly, this issue, which has tremendous resonance not just for the families of those who may not get

there, the bodies of their loved one back, but for the broader issue that Israelis, generally Israeli society, Israeli history, Israeli political

culture puts a premium on redeeming everyone lost on the battlefield, alive and dead.

How this is going to be worked out? It seems to me Hamas probably doesn't have access, doesn't know senior Hamas officials who the Israelis have

killed may have had that information at some point. And then there is the chaos and confusion of the battlefield.

But be that as it may, this is -- and I've been around Israeli-Palestinian negotiations for a long time. There are always issues, and now, it is going

to require a pretty heavy lift by the mediators, particularly the Americans. This agreement was personally assured by the President of the

United States directly via Steve Witkoff, with senior Hamas official in Sharm El-Sheikh, where this goes right now is unclear.

NEWTON: Yes, and to point out the context here for these families, as you point out, this isn't just the families, but Israeli society itself that

still considers even those that died in Gaza, it still considers them hostages and that is key there. So they will see it as Hamas not holding up

their end of the bargain.

I do wonder what you think the fallout will be now. We have already heard in the last few days that perhaps aid shipments would be slowed down. I

mean, how do you think materially it might affect the nuts and bolts of this ceasefire?

[16:05:03]

MILLER: I mean, that's the critical question. I think certainly the Prime Minister's political opponents are going to use this against him. They will

call it understandably, a major breach in the agreement, whether there was a time limit set as there appear to be within the first 72 hours to return

live hostages is unclear to me, but this is going to require some handling by the mediators, and frankly, given the fact that it is an Israeli issue,

the mediator here -- I mean, the Arabs can lean on Hamas all they want. The question is, to what degree will the Trump administration support the

Israeli position on this and try to figure out some sort of solution?

I think that Hamas does not want to see a resumption of the comprehensive military campaign that the Israelis have launched. I think that they now

understand that the return of hostages, far from weakening their position, has actually strengthened it.

You've watched in the last 48 hours, hundreds of thousands of policemen deployed in areas from which the Israelis have redeployed. Youve seen Hamas

exert its influence through the execution and intimidation of rival clans and militias. So Hamas has no stake, I think, in wanting to resume the

fight. And I don't think Mr. Netanyahu, Prime Minister Netanyahu, has any stake on this one in crossing the Trump administration, given the

President's determination to take a yes, but from Hamas as essentially a yes.

So, again, I don't want to make a prediction here. My sense is that this will go forward regardless, but it is a significant problem right now.

NEWTON: Yes, but even without predictions, as you make clear, this is a significant hurdle right now that needs to be overcome.

Aaron David Miller, as we continue to watch these developments out of the Middle East, grateful to you.

As you just heard Aaron David Miller say, inside Gaza, the security situation has taken an ominous turn. Hamas is calling on people to hand

over collaborators who helped Israel or face what it calls the strict hand of justice. A video shared on social media channels affiliated with Hamas

show masked fighters carrying out executions.

The U.S. military's Middle East Command has called on Hamas to stop the violence and disarm without delay. President trump told reporters earlier

that Hamas was, in his words, clearing out the gangs.

CNN's Oren Liebermann has more now on the executions, and a warning, you may find the images here disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF AND CORRESPONDENT: In the immediate aftermath of the ceasefire in Gaza, Hamas has quickly reemerged

and is reasserting its power in Gaza over parts of the decimated territory not occupied by Israel. Videos shared widely on social media and confirmed

by CNN show Hamas members carrying out execution style killings on the streets of Gaza City. We have to warn you, these images are graphic and CNN

is not showing the videos in full.

This is the moment the Hamas gunmen opened fire with eight Palestinians on their knees. They appear to be blindfolded. Seconds later, they are dead,

their bodies lying on the ground. The so-called Palestinian Resistance Factions, which include Hamas, praised the killings, calling them a,

"security campaign against mercenaries, bandits and anyone they see as cooperating with the 'Zionist enemy.'"

They called on Palestinians to report what they called wanted individuals and anyone helping them. This is Hamas attempting to show its back in

control in Gaza and eliminating any opposition. After the videos came to light, a prominent family in Gaza, the Doghmush family, said Hamas had

killed nearly 30 of their family members after they were told they would be treated fairly if they surrendered. They say the fate of many other family

members is unknown.

The Doghmush family denied working with Israel and said Israeli forces had killed hundreds of relatives over the last two years.

During the war, we saw several unprecedented protests against Hamas in Gaza. Now it appears they're working to quash any more acts of defiance.

The Palestinian Authority in the occupied West Bank condemned the killings as heinous crimes, which claimed the lives of dozens of citizens outside

the framework of the law and without fair trials.

A Palestinian rights group, the Independent Commission for Human Rights, said the wave of summary executions without trial cannot be justified under

any circumstances. Such acts constitute grave legal and moral crimes that require urgent condemnation and accountability.

Oren Liebermann, CNN, in Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Okay, coming up for us. U.S.-China tensions, a rally in gold and a surge in A.I. all point investors in different directions. We will discuss

which way to go with the founder of Fisher Investments. You don't want to miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:12:25]

NEWTON: So a choppy day for U.S. markets as two major banks posted strong earnings. The Dow was up more than 400 points. As you see there, it gave up

all the gains, basically it amounted to nothing the entire day.

Bank of America and Morgan Stanley both closed more than four percent higher. They reported strong earnings before the opening bell. That, of

course, was an increase in that dealmaking and trade activity. The results offer some insight into the economy in the absence of official government

data. Remember, we are not going to get any for a while because of that shutdown.

Now, markets have sent mixed signals about the strength of the economy, stunning rallies in A.I. stocks have powered markets to record highs.

Meanwhile, safe havens like gold and silver also near record highs. Analysts say both rallies have room to run.

Still investors, they have a reason to be wary, right? We've been here before. As we saw Friday, U.S.-China trade tensions can still rattle the

markets and the collapse of First Brands and Tricolor are raising concerns about private lending. If we listen to Jamie Dimon, he warned, look, when

you see one cockroach, there are probably more.

Ken Fisher is the founder and executive chairman of Fisher Investments. We cannot think of a better time to have you on. So I am hoping you're ready,

you're going to roll up your sleeves because we have a lot of questions.

Firstly, can you just review the landscape we just went through there? We have the stronger earnings. We have a resilient U.S. economy, A.I. boom,

and yet then there are the issues with trade, anemic employment. But the thing that's really bothering a lot of people here are the valuations.

What do you see here? Do you see more risk? Do you see more opportunity. Are you worried about a market correction?

KEN FISHER, EXECUTIVE OFFICER, FISHER INVESTMENTS: Well, first Paula, thanks for having me on. Second, because you're from Canada, in your honor,

I wore my global stock market tie with my fig leaf on it. And when you think global, it is important to remember that this year, most of the major

markets in the world have been hitting all-time highs and been hitting them fairly recently, if not at as fast as we have.

Markets outside of the United States are up more than America is. And the fact is, it is a global bull market. The reality of that is pretty

indisputable.

NEWTON: Indisputable, but do you just hang on here? I mean, some people are saying, look, I want to take some money. I want to move it. What do you do?

Because others say, do not try and time this market.

[16:15:07]

FISHER: So let me punctuate that even more so, Paula. Most people overwhelmingly are terrible timers. I am not a very good timer. The fact

is, if you think you're a really good timer, you probably aren't. There is precious few of them and to be able to time anything that's volatile in the

short term requires a set of skills and not very many people actually have. And for the most part, the people that think they're really good at it

aren't.

If those people existed in large volume, you'd know of their names. They'd become so famous so fast that they would be legends and you can't find

them. You can find a few in history, but only a few.

NEWTON: So I hear you, stick it out for now. Ride this market. I think that's what you're saying. I do want to ask you about A.I., though and the

valuations themselves.

Record capital investment. Youve been bullish on A.I. for years. I have to say that. Go ahead. Go ahead.

FISHER: So let me say this really succinctly. You know, there are three things you say. The one you're meant to say, the one you say and the one

you knew afterwards you should have said. Valuations have never been predictive of markets in any way, in any time period, that real investors

really care about one, three or five-year periods or shorter.

There is a long history of valuations. There is a long history of market movements. You can test them any which way you want, including the famous

CAPE Shiller P.E., which was used originally by Robert Shiller and still is over a ten-year basis, not shorter time periods and the numbers that

Shiller used for ten fall apart when you use his data over one, three and five. Valuations are not predictive.

NEWTON: And that says to you, you stay in that A.I. bull market. You continue, if you're invested, you stay invested.

FISHER: Well, mind you, a time will come when it is time to get out of that, that's for sure. But it won't be predicated by valuations. The fact

is, when you think about what you move toward, it comes down to an assessment about expectations versus subsequent realities. A.I. has a great

future. A.I. is very different than the internet bubble of a quarter century ago.

NEWTON: So A.I. --

FISHER: A.I. has its own problems, but it is about expectations versus reality and there will be a good reality. The question is, are expectations

too high?

NEWTON: And then that brings us to another topic, the U.S.-China trade war. I mean, it really jolted markets in the last five or six days and it really

blindsided many. Are you worried about it?

FISHER: So I worry about China in the long term. But I see China differently than most people do. China is in a stage of its economic and

market long term descent, and that has been true for a long time now. It has been true largely since Xi came to power. That's why Xi is more focused

on non-economic growth and more on things like militarism and geopolitics.

The fact is China is very patient as a country, but they are very strategic, and I do worry about them. But in terms of the trade function, I

am going to go back to what I've said from the beginning of all things about Trump and tariffs. Tariffs tend to be significantly worse for the

country that imposes them than the countries they're imposed upon. That's one of the reasons that America is lagging the rest of the world in the

stock market this year. It is also true that tariffs don't really work the way people think they work.

The issues of what unveiled with the rare earths is -- and I just want you to think about this because people don't, the total amount of imports into

America of rare earths is about $170 million a year. The total amount of imports into the U.S. From China is about 200 times bigger.

The fact of the matter is, America, or many other countries, I mean, Japan is the biggest importer of rare earths, but it is that impossible to build

rare earth capability and it is just a matter of having the will to do it.

NEWTON: Okay. Understood. And we will wait to see if that will happens among the United States and its allies. We are going to go through rapid

fire if you're game here for, a minute, Ken.

So you just have to answer if you think its risky for the market or not risky for the market right now, we are going to bring in a nice stoplight

over here. I am going to flash red, yellow or green, depending on what you say. Okay. We are starting on rapid fire.

[16:20:04]

Inflation, a risk to the market, caution or not a risk for the market.

FISHER: Not a risk at all.

NEWTON: Ha! So we get a green one on that one. We don't have time to elaborate too much, but we will take it under advisement. So not a risk at

all, okay, it is going to stay probably at three percent or under.

Next jobs, anemic job market. Does that worry you?

FISHER: Moderately not much.

NEWTON: All right. I am giving that one a caution yellow. Did everyone hear that? Caution yellow on the job market. Keep your eye on it. We have a

shutdown. No jobs numbers for a while, but we have other indicators we can look to.

Interest rates. So much of a debate right now. Do you believe the Fed will help this market and help the economy? More cuts at a quicker pace?

FISHER: No.

NEWTON: So you're giving me a stop on that one. You're saying this Fed will not be helping out this market as much as some people want it to?

FISHER: As much as some people, some people isn't all people. I think the Fed probably does what its current expectations are, but no more.

NEWTON: Gotcha. Okay. And the last one, and I know a lot of people have been thinking about this, gold. It is at a record high. No one can even

really plausibly figure out why. Stay in that gold trade and do you predict it will go higher a risk to the market or good for the market?

FISHER: So I don't think gold particularly has a broader market impact at all. I gave up trying to forecast gold when I was young because I was

terrible at it, and I took a solemn vow that I would never predict what would happen to gold in the name of good luck and I've been lucky since, so

I am going to stick with that.

NEWTON: You are going to stick with that. Ken Fisher, you've been a good sport and we have learned a lot. You made it through rapid fire as well. We

didn't have the last light on because as you said, gold not an issue.

Ken Fisher, we will have you back anytime and let's wait to see what this market holds for us in this final quarter. Appreciate it.

FISHER: Thanks for having me, Paula.

NEWTON: Now, as we were speaking with Ken, there have been some goings on at The Oval Office. The press conference has been holding -- pardon me, the

President has been holding a press conference on law enforcement and what he believes the trends are in American cities.

Trump is discussing the results of his decision to send federal forces to cities like Washington and Memphis. Now, moments ago, Donald Trump also

confirmed that he authorized the CIA to operate in Venezuela. We want to listen in now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Think of drugs, we have a lot of drugs coming in from Venezuela, and a lot of the

Venezuelan drugs come in through the sea. So you get to see that. But we are going to stop them by land also.

ED O'KEEFE, CBS NEWS: Does the CIA have authority to take out Maduro?

TRUMP: Oh, I don't want to answer a question like that. That's a ridiculous question for me to be given.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: Kevin Liptak is in Washington for us. Kevin, I know you've been listening in. I have not, because we were speaking with Ken Fisher, who had

some really interesting things to say about the market. But can you fill us in? Because as well as the FBI being there and the President talking about,

you know, what the crime statistics were, this issue of Venezuela, potentially a very explosive one.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Absolutely. And it is clear that the President has a lot going on when it comes to his Venezuela policy

that we might not be seeing on the surface. Obviously, he has been carrying out these operations to go after what the administration claims are

narcotraffickers in the Caribbean Sea. Yesterday, at least the fifth boat was sort of blown up by the U.S. military.

But I think it is also evident that the President has another phase of this, that he is at least eyeing at this point. One, he is saying that it

is possible that the U.S. will go after some of these cartels on land. So far, they've only been going after them on the sea. And now the President

is confirming that that is in his mind as well.

And second, he has confirmed that the U.S. and that The White House has authorized the CIA to operate inside Venezuela. You know, we had heard and

we have reported previously that the President had given this authorization. It is typically a secret memo, but now the President is

talking about this in public and he laid out two pieces of rationale. One is that he says and claims that Venezuela is sending sort of the worst of

its worst to the United States and this is a line that he uses repeatedly. He claims that they've emptied out their prisons and mental institutions

and sent those individuals to the U.S.

And then the second piece of rationale is the drug issue, claiming that these drugs are flowing from Venezuela into the U.S. and so those are the

two pieces of rationale that he is citing here. But he was asked specifically whether the CIA would also try and oust Nicolas Maduro, the

President of Venezuela, who the U.S. views as illegitimate, and the President stopped short of answering that.

He said that that would be a ridiculous question for him to answer, but he did say that he thinks that the leadership in Venezuela is feeling heat, is

feeling pressure from this campaign that he is waging to try and stem the flow of drugs. I think this all adds up to a very sort of -- it is a

Venezuela policy that we are seeing kind of unfold in real time, you know, behind-the-scenes, this is all being spearheaded by the Secretary of State,

Marco Rubio.

[16:25:33]

It does seem as if there is some thought to try and remove Maduro from power. The U.S. has recognized an alternative leader. Clearly, this is

something that the President and Rubio have thought quite a lot about. But obviously, you know, the history of the CIA in Latin and South America and

the history of the CIA trying to sort of operate behind the scenes to remove leaders is sort of a torrid one. It doesn't have a great track

record.

So I think a lot of people listening to that will have their eyebrows raised when there is the discussion of the CIA potentially operating in

Latin America to oust a leader, but clearly this is something that the President is thinking about.

NEWTON: Yes, and a reminder that the President throughout the entire campaign promised not to start any of these conflicts.

Kevin, before I let you go, he also said that Narendra Modi, Prime Minister of India, had indicated to him that he would stop buying Russian oil. What

more about this do we know materially? I know it has been out there that India has been looking for other sources of oil.

LIPTAK: Yes, and remember, the President has applied a steep tariff on India for its purchases of Russian energy as a way to try and bring the war

in Ukraine to an end. This has been a major sticking point between the two men. You know, they had had a pretty good relationship. They are sort of

friends and they have developed a sort of partnership dating back to the President's first term. But India's purchases of the Russian energy had

been a major point of contention.

Now, the President is saying that Modi has agreed to stop buying Russian oil. You know, we haven't heard that from the Indian side and we will have

to get reaction from New Delhi to be clear about what exactly the President is saying here.

He also said that the other country that he is trying to work on is China. Obviously, China is the biggest purchaser of Russian energy, and they have

shown no indication that they are willing to cut that off. But the President has also shown no indication that he is willing to put new

tariffs on China to punish them for that in the way that he has done on India.

So I think there is still a lot of questions here about what exactly has been agreed to.

NEWTON: Yes. Absolutely. Kevin Liptak grateful to you to sum all that all up, as the President continues speaking there from the Oval Office.

Now, when we return, CNN investigates a growing scam where victims, often retirees, are being tricked into feeding their hard earned cash, actually

feeding their money into crypto ATMs and police can't get it back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I should have known better. I should have known better. I was stupid enough. I fell for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:31:10]

NEWTON: Now to a growing scam that's robbing people of millions of dollars. Now, you've probably heard of people getting phone calls and being tricked

into sending money to a scammer's bank account. Now the game is changing, with victims being told to actually feed their cash, oftentimes thousands

of dollars, into a cryptocurrency ATM.

Kyung Lah shows us how these scams unfold and how one man was robbed of his life savings.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no, no, no.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You are watching a victim get scammed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're scamming you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, they're not.

LAH (voice-over): One of thousands of Americans caught in a growing global crime spree that's no secret to police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the police department.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't care.

LAH (voice-over): Or even store clerks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't do it. A lot of people have been scammed recently.

LAH (voice-over): From Georgia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody on the internet, some scam caller told them to do this.

LAH (voice-over): To Massachusetts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did they tell you to do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take $31,000.00 out and then put it into a Bitcoin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no.

LAH (voice-over): Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I noticed an elderly lady feeding thousands of dollars into the cryptocurrency machine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, I have the bank on the phone and I'm in danger. This is Chase Bank.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. No, you're not, ma'am.

LAH (voice-over): And Ohio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much money have you already sent to them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's $10,700.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesus Christ.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, man.

LAH (voice-over): I even talked to one of these scammers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to withdraw $9,500 from your account.

LAH (voice-over): And you'll see how he tried to steal 10 grand.

This is a scam. You know it and I know it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it seems like I'm talking to the reporter?

LAH (voice-over): In all of these cases, these machines called crypto ATMs become the getaway car for the scammers who prey on victims like Gus Cason.

GUS CASON, SCAM VICTIM: After I stuck in $100 bills, it would prompt you for everything that come up and I had him on the phone, too.

LAH: Had you ever seen this before?

CASON: No. Never been here before. Never been here after.

LAH (voice-over): Just outside Cedar Rapids, Iowa, is where Gus Cason calls home. Aged 71, a retired union worker and super fan of the band Nickelback.

Two years ago, as he was recovering from a stroke.

CASON: I got a phone call. Well, he told me he was president of the bank. I said, now, you tell me, I want you to swear that you're not a scam. I swear

I'm not a scam and all that. He convinced me, he was good. He was good. I just had a stroke. I wasn't thinking right at all.

LAH (voice-over): The scammer told Gus that he would be arrested unless he withdrew $15,000 in cash and deposited it in that crypto ATM. It looks like

a normal ATM, but a crypto ATM is different. Put in cash and it converts it into cryptocurrency in an instant. Victims like Gus have lost about $240

million so far this year, says the FBI. Double the pace of last year.

CASON: I should have known better. I should have known better. I was stupid enough, I fell for it.

LAH (voice-over): The scammer took off with Gus's cash in the form of cryptocurrency. But the crypto ATM company also made money from the

transaction. Our investigation found the companies that operate crypto ATMs profit off the fees and markups, often at 20 percent to 30 percent that

they charge on transactions, scam or legit. And when police have seized the scammed cash out of the ATMs, the crypto ATM companies hit back hard in

court to get that cash back, which is what happened to Gus Cason.

MAJ. CHAD COLSTON, LINN COUNTY, IOWA SHERIFF'S OFFICE, IOWA: This is our evidence processing room.

LAH (voice-over): Major Chad Colston and his deputies at the Linn County Sheriff's Office managed to recover the $15,000 in cash that Gus had put

into that crypto ATM as evidence in a crime.

How confident were you that the victim would get that money back after you took it out of the machine?

COLSTON: So we were very confident.

LAH (voice-over): His confidence was short lived. Bitcoin Depot, the company with the most crypto ATMs in the U.S., fought in court to get the

$15,000 back.

[16:35:03]

The company points out its machines, like many crypto ATMs, have multiple on screen warnings, alerts of scams and requires that customers agree that

they're only sending money to their own accounts. So in court, Bitcoin Depot won.

COLSTON: We ended up getting a communication from Bitcoin Depot. They said it was a glorious day, gentlemen, when can we come get our money? Which was

our victim's money. A multi-million dollar company is overjoyed that they get $15,000 and our victim is, you know, hurting. I mean, that's their life

savings.

LAH (voice-over): Bitcoin Depot has used tough tactics to stop police from seizing money for evidence like threats to immediately litigate or

suspending fee refunds in entire state if a single officer tries to seize cash.

Bitcoin Depot even sent an Amazon gift to mock one police department, a copy of the U.S. Constitution, with a note calling the seizure of a scam

victim's money a Fourth Amendment violation. After we reached out to Bitcoin Depot about these messages to police, the company told us the

messages were unacceptable and the employee responsible is no longer with Bitcoin Depot.

What do you think, Gus, that everybody seemed to get money, but you who saved that money?

CASON: You know, Bitcoin had no business getting that money at all. I mean, really, when -- especially when it's a scam.

LAH: Do you think that's fair?

CASON: Well, hell no.

LAH (voice-over): Lawsuits from attorneys general accuse the top three crypto ATM firms of profiting from scams and not protecting customers.

Iowa's A.G., more than half of all money taken in by Bitcoin Depot in Iowa over three years came from scams. Washington, D.C.'s A.G., at least 93

percent of deposits over several months from Athena Bitcoin machines came from scams.

Athena Bitcoin tells CNN it strongly disputes the allegations in the complaint and says it has strong safeguards against fraud. Bitcoin Depot

tells us, "We do not profit from scams, and the vast majority of our customers use our kiosks for lawful purposes." The company adds if it can't

stop the transaction, it reviews every potential scam case individually for possible fee relief or refunds.

But we spoke to nearly a dozen victims who were tricked by scammers while using Bitcoin Depot machines, and only one said she got a fee refund.

(On-camera): These scammers are so convincing that a lot of the victims actually say it's almost as if they're hypnotized. They are fully convinced

that they're going to get in trouble if they don't insert all of this money into a crypto ATM. We actually spoke to a scammer on the phone. He tried to

steal $10,000 from me, and it wasn't until I told him that I was a news reporter that he hung up.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Las Vegas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Such a sobering report there from Kyung Lah. We will have more of her investigation into this new kind of big money scam tomorrow right here

on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Now, as you just saw for yourself, with scams on the rise, Web skills are becoming more important than ever. Scouting America has taken notice and is

now letting Scouts earn merit badges in A.I. and cybersecurity. The organization says the former -- pardon me, the former will challenge Scouts

to, point form here, examine impact of A.I. on their daily life, learn about the impact of deepfakes, and work on a project that either

incorporates A.I. or explains it, which is also important. Cybersecurity badge will teach Scouts about online safety and explore careers in the

field.

Scouting America CEO Roger Krone says it's about keeping up with the times, and he joins us now.

Good to have you here. And this was really intriguing to so many of us. Can you explain why you introduced these badges beyond what we just explained,

and what has been the reaction with Scouts?

ROGER KRONE, PRESIDENT AND CEO, SCOUTING AMERICA: Yes, Paula. Thank you. It's great to be here. You know, for 115 years, scouting has prepared youth

in the physical world. And that's our job is to prepare young people in America for lives later on. And of course, the world has changed. And we

all now spend a good portion of our lives in the virtual world. So it completely makes sense that we give our participants our youth those skills

and abilities to deal with the virtual world and artificial intelligence, cybersecurity, we have another badge on digital technology, it's what kids

needs, and it's the kind of program that kids have asked for.

NEWTON: And it's been well received by Scouts themselves? I know it's early.

KRONE: Oh, it's been terrific. Yes, we've only been out for a couple of weeks with A.I. and cybersecurity, and we already have dozens of kids who

have earned the badge.

NEWTON: Oh, wow.

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KRONE: And we go through a test process when we introduce a new badge. And these new badges tested very, very high on our scale. So this is going to

be a big win. And we hope it will continue to attract youth into our programs.

NEWTON: You know, you've already raised a point that I was thinking about because

some Scouts and their parents would say, look, we want them off technology when they go to Scouts, right? We want them in the big wide world, the big

open sky, and doing those kinds of things in the great outdoors, not on the inside of technology. So this must have been quite a pivot for your

organization.

KRONE: Well, it is. First of all, we are, you know, we're teaching kids and the outdoors is our classroom, but we're also very pragmatic. And we know

that the kids are not leaving their cell phones and their small screen devices at home when they go camping. And to use those devices and that

technology responsibly is a real important lesson for us to teach.

NEWTON: And I was also intrigued by the fact that this may also lead to careers for some of these Scouts.

KRONE: Yes, our merit badge system is composed of 142 different programs, different merit badges, and they really have two parts. One is to have fun

and achievement, but the second is to expose our youth to potential career paths and let them kind of get a taste for what aviation, welding or

digital programing or A.I. or cybersecurity might be like as they're going through that process of trying to find the right career.

NEWTON: Well, we will wait to see how all of this unfolds. The Scouts into the brave new world. I think maybe we could use some of those courses as

well.

Roger Krone, we will leave it there. Thank you so much.

KRONE: Great. Thank you, Paula.

NEWTON: Now our family here is expanding. A final word of congratulations. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS welcomes, look at that, the newest member. But can he

type? Oh, my god, he's so cute. Theodore Jonathan Milder. Can we call him Teddy? That's what I want to know. Congratulations to our copy editor,

Tristan and his wife, Kristie, on look at that gorgeous, gorgeous baby. Oh, lovely.

And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Up next, "MARKETPLACE ASIA."

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