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Quest Means Business

Trust Essential to Growth of Agentic A.I.; Interview with Edelman CEO Richard Edelman; Nvidia Shares Rise After Hours on Q3 Results; Anthropic Reports Chinese Spies Used A.I. Tool to Automate Cyberattack. NVIDIA to Report Third Quarter Financial Results; Source: Trump Administration Working on New Peace Plan with Moscow; Japan Warns Citizens in China to Take Safety Precautions. Aired 4:00-5p ET

Aired November 19, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:16]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell is now ringing on Wall Street.

Trading is coming to an end, and there has actually been a bit of an uptick on the session so far. You'll see over the Dow, we had up and down. We are

chopping which is interesting and we will get some analysis. Oh good Lord! I do love the way they try to break the gavel and maybe one in every 300

will do it. Optimum, ringing the closing bell there. Trading is positive. So we've broken the four-day streak.

Those are the markets and the events that you and I will be talking about. Any moment now, NVIDIA will release its earnings. It is arguably the key

test for investors betting on the boom in A.I.

The White House is quietly attempting to hammer out a new peace plan with Russia, according to reports.

And people in many countries are not ready to put their faith in A.I. Tonight, Richard Edelman will be with me to talk trust and artificial

intelligence.

We are live in New York on Wednesday, midweek. It is November the 19th. I am Richard Quest and yes, I mean business.

Good evening. Just around now, we are going to be getting the latest earnings from NVIDIA and a better sense of where the A.I. rally is

currently and where it is likely to go next.

NVIDIA, of course, is the world's most valuable company. It is the industry bellwether with shares up 34 percent so far this year and that's after sort

of the turbulence that we've been seeing of late. Now some investors are growing concerned, A.I. stocks are overvalued pretty much wherever you see.

So for example, the big short investor, Michael Burry recently disclosed he is betting against NVIDIA. Other players like Softbank and Peter Thiel have

cashed out their stakes.

Clare Duffy is with me. What are we looking for, Clare?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Well, Richard, the thing that people are going to be looking for is some reassurance here that the A.I. market

continues to have significant demand because NVIDIA really is at the heart. It is both the backbone and has become sort of an emblem of the A.I. boom

because it is chips are so central to A.I. infrastructure and we've seen these growing concerns among investors that the A.I. market is a bubble

waiting to burst, that the returns from A.I. technology won't keep up with the pace of investment from these big tech companies on A.I.

infrastructure, and so investors really will be looking for some sign of where A.I. demand stands if the big tech companies are continuing to invest

at this pace that we've seen over the last year.

And NVIDIA's earnings have become this very closely watched event. But I feel like for the past year, people have been watching in excitement and

leading into this earnings report, people are really watching with this sort of nervous anxiety because the stakes are so high here. NVIDIA

represents eight percent of the value of the S&P 500 and its deals with other tech companies drive up their stocks.

And so whatever happens here tonight is going to have huge ripple effects across the markets.

QUEST: You see that's the -- in a 100-year time horizon in a 50-year time horizon, the real problem we've got is that the valuations today are not

really justified if we look at it by profits that we are seeing.

DUFFY: I think that's right. I mean, I think that we are likely to see either a correction or just sort of a slowing down and it makes sense,

right, like we are not -- it is unlikely to see a company continue to grow at this massive rate that we've seen NVIDIA grow over the last two years.

It is possible that things will start to sort of normalize as we move forward.

But I think what investors are looking for is that big tech companies aren't pulling back on their spending on A.I. infrastructure and I do think

it is likely that that's what we will see from this report.

We just heard from all of the big tech companies Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, within the last few weeks, who all said that they are continuing to

up their investments in A.I. infrastructure spend, so I expect that we are going to hear good news from NVIDIA tonight, but the stakes are really high

here.

QUEST: And indeed we will talk about that now because beyond NVIDIA, thank you, Clare, many investors are wondering if were in a broader market

bubble.

I would go further than that. Most people accept that we are in some sort of bubble or balloon.

So then the question is when is it going to burst? Or have the air come out of it? Now, the market is facing several threats, most notably of course,

the A.I. and sky high valuations. And of course, you've got the question of as those valuations come down, or as there are worries, so the air comes

out the balloon, then you've got the minutes from the last Fed meeting.

[16:05:14]

They showed many members leaning against lowering interest rates. That is a slow along with the lack of economic data that is clouding the issue. The

Bureau of Labor Statistics now says there will be no October jobs report because no data was collected during the government shutdown.

I spoke to the Ark Invest CEO, Cathie Wood, about this very subject. We were both in Riyadh, as you know. She said she expects real productivity

growth in the coming years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CATHIE WOOD, CEO, ARK INVEST: This is the opposite of the tech and telecom bubble. That's why this is sustainable. This is the proverbial wall of

worry. Those are the strongest bull markets. They climb a wall of worry and they broaden out over time and that is what is happening now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now with me is Ken Fisher, the founder and executive chair of Fisher Investments. You can't see Ken, but I am letting the air out of the balloon

very gently, but the fear is because I have here the pin and the balloon. The real fear is that what's about to happen is the whole thing goes pear

shaped.

What do you think? Where are we at the moment?

KEN FISHER, EXECUTIVE OFFICER, FISHER INVESTMENTS: First, Richard, thanks for having me. I think your motto should be Quest is the best, but the fact

is, I sure hope you don't expect me to expect me to make any of those sounds you've been making. I just don't have that in me.

QUEST: Don't worry.

FISHER: The reality is a little like Miss Wood had to say. I wouldn't kind of put it the way she put it, but markets pre-price all widely known things

pretty efficiently. The fact is this is not at all a bubble. It just isn't.

If it were a bubble, few people would be calling it a bubble when it is really a bubble, most people are calling it an opportunity. Are valuations

high? Yes. Is that predictive? No.

Valuations have never been predictive. Statistically, that's just -- it is a wrong thing. You can actually look at that statistically in a lot of ways

and see correctly the valuations don't tell you where the market is going over any time period that real human beings care about.

The fact is that valuations are high. These companies are spending a lot of money. Something like NVIDIA may do better than people think or worse than

people think. It may suffer in a bear market. Oh, big deal, a surprise for that. But oh, by the way, the fact of the matter is, it will still be the

leading semiconductor company in the world. And in a real bubble, companies like that mostly go away and disappear.

QUEST: The difficulty, of course, is what to do? Because these particular stocks have been such a significant form of wealth creation that if they

take a minor tumble, a lot of people will feel the pain from that.

Now, I guess that's just inevitable. That's what happens with markets.

FISHER: Did anyone ever know that stocks were volatile? Sheesh! Who would know? I mean, the fact of the matter is talked about a whole lot. Anybody

that thinks that they don't or shouldn't -- just kind of barking up the wrong tree. Stocks do great in the long term. In the long term, they

reflect all of the improvement in technology, knowhow and innovation that comes out of the world, most of which comes out of America, by the way.

But be that as it may, in the short term, stocks just bounce around a lot. I wouldn't get too excited for example, one way or the other, although most

people will about the NVIDIA earnings call because one quarter, earnings are looking backwards, not forwards, don't really tell you what's ahead.

QUEST: So what does the wise investor do? First of all, if you've now found yourself overweight on tech, which is -- I mean, it is justifiable at one

level because it is such an important generator of wealth. But if you are now overweight in tech, what do you do?

FISHER: So first, if you believe you're overweight in tech and you aren't rationally optimistic with that being a planful bet, well then you can

correct that. But the fact of the matter is, even if you're underweight in tech, you probably got a lot of tech because tech is just the biggest

weight in the world.

If you think about the rational way to think, in my view, stocks basically way earnings over the next approximate three to 30 months, and you think

about this as an intermediate to long term reality and you say where do you want to be. The real question is and you said this before, Richard, very

correctly, is there a bear market ahead in the next three to 30 months?

[16:10:19]

Is there a bear market ahead in the next few years? If there is, these stocks will go down. If there isn't, they will go up. Will they lead or lag

the market? Well, that's another thing to debate. That's whether you should be overweight or not.

But the fact is, you take NVIDIA. It is already previously announced. It got over $500 billion of actual contract Rockwell and Rubin revenue,

meaning that is the data center revenue stuff that is associated with their with their data center GPUs. Between now and 2020, the end of 2026, that's

gargantuan. But there still could be bumpy along the way. Bumpy, and it is normal.

QUEST: Sure, but I guess -- I guess what distresses some, I would put myself in this category is the lack of policy certainty. Certainly in the

United States, when we've got tariffs, we've got changing tariffs, all of which does take its toll on the psyche, if not the reality.

FISHER: You know Donald Trump is like a Texas tornado where I am from of razor blades. It just -- it is just whirling -- and I just made some of

your funny sounds there for a second. It just cutting up and chasing around and scaring. And, you know, when we move into the midterms next year, that

will freak out a lot of people, too, because normally that implies a risk of potential policy change.

But is that really new in the history of America to have concern about policy change, to have strange things up? Donald Trump is very unusual,

that's for sure. But the reality is concerns about policy, that's not new.

QUEST: If you take a look at and I know you do review what your investors, what your clients are saying, you're very good at having your finger on the

pulse of what your clients' concerns are. What is their number one concern at the moment?

FISHER: You've already articulated it. There is a huge concern that there is a tech and A.I. bubble. I am just going to tell you, if it were really a

tech and A.I. bubble, there wouldn't -- there would be very few people thinking it was a bubble. Most would be thinking it was an opportunity.

That's the biggest single concern I hear.

QUEST: And we are grateful, sir. Next time, we will send you some balloons and we can blow them up together. Thank you. Have a lovely evening. I am

grateful for you, as always, Ken, it's always so good to have your wisdom on the program.

FISHER: Great to be with you, Richard. Thank you.

QUEST: Now to Ukraine. A source is telling us that the Trump administration is quietly hammering out a new peace plan with Russia to end the war in

Ukraine. The source says Mr. Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, who has been at the center of the talks with Moscow, is leading this effort.

Overnight, a major Russian attack killed at least 25 people, but this was in the Western Ukraine, which is often not hit. Only hours earlier,

Ukrainian President Zelenskyy had arrived in Turkey, where he is trying to reinvigorate the peace talks and prisoner of war exchanges with Moscow.

Kevin Liptak is at The White House.

When I saw this, I mean, let's ignore the Europeans who feel like, hang on, they are being deliberately cut out of this. This has all the hallmarks of

exactly what people feared. Russia and the U.S. carving it up.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Exactly. And there is no information that I've gotten from sources here that that is not what is

happening. It seems as if Steve Witkoff, the President's foreign envoy, has gotten back together with that counterpart in the Kremlin, Kirill Dmitriev

and worked on this multi-point plan that, in their view, would bring the war to an end and it appears as if President Trump and senior officials

here do view an opening.

They think that the Kremlin, for some reason, might be more willing to agree to a peace deal now in a way that they were not previously. But I

think also importantly, they see President Zelenskyy in Ukraine facing a moment of weakness. You know, there has been a corruption investigation

underway. It has sort of crept into his inner circle and they believe that politically, he may be vulnerable. And so I think that they are viewing

this moment as a time to strike.

Now, a multi-point plan sounds very similar to what the President tried to do in Gaza and he was successful there in brokering a ceasefire, however

fragile it may be. And Witkoff clearly, I think, thinks that this is now a moment.

[16:15:01]

And what we've heard is no specifics about what these points will include, but I think it is clear that a lot of it does appear to reflect some of the

Russian demands, whether it is that Ukraine give up the entire Eastern Donbas region or assurances that Ukraine not join NATO, assurances about

what type of military equipment it is able to receive.

And so I think, they will have to go a long way in convincing the Ukrainians that this is actually the deal that's going to end the war in

their country.

QUEST: And I guess the question will ultimately then turn -- I mean, if this deal happened or if there is a deal that is put on the table and

Zelenskyy or the Europeans balk at it, is that at the moment when the President says, well, I did my best, I am off.

LIPTAK: Yes. I mean, he has threatened that multiple times over the last year, and he hasn't quite shrugged off yet. But I think it is obvious, at

least based on the descriptions of this deal that we've received so far, is that that is going to be the response from the Ukrainians and the

Europeans.

Now, we should note, the Europeans themselves have been trying to put forward a peace deal. The Ukrainians have appeared more receptive to

working on that. But the Russians and the Kremlin have sort of balked, and they haven't necessarily specified what parts of that plan they might be

able to agree to.

So all of this, I don't know where it is leading, really, but it is clear that President Trump wants this war to be over with and he seems willing at

this point to put his thumb on the side of Russia in a way that he hadn't necessarily been previously.

QUEST: Can I just take you to another subject? I am going off skis as the skiers would say. Has there been any fallout or further comments from the

Presidents "quiet, piggy" comment of the other week?

I mean, I think we were just discussing it in the office. The most extraordinary thing is that there was no general fallout in a way that if a

CEO had said it or somebody else had said that, he would resign.

LIPTAK: Yes and it just speaks to, I think, the acceptance of behavior that wouldn't be accepted in any other workplace in the country. And I think,

you know, at the moment sort of passed by a lot of people because it was hard to hear. The video came out a little late, and I think, perhaps

importantly, no other reporter who is in the press cabin on Air Force One seemed to say anything about it as it was happening in real time.

But, you know, on Capitol Hill, the Presidents Republican allies have for so long become accustomed to essentially forgiving anything that the

President does. And certainly this -- it is an insult, yes, but it doesn't necessarily have any policy ramifications, so maybe they feel as if it is

not the thing to pick a fight with the President with.

But you saw it again yesterday, the President lambasting an ABC reporter for asking completely legitimate questions alongside the Saudi Crown

Prince. And so, you know, this is very ugly and its very dark in a lot of ways and I would even say its intolerable, but it doesn't appear as if the

President's allies are any closer to saying anything about it at this point.

QUEST: Kevin, I am so glad we asked that and got that. Thank you very much. Thank you, Kevin Liptak The White House.

Now, in a moment, I will be talking to the chief executive of Tenable, a leading cybersecurity firm. It is all about A.I.

Now, the interesting thing about a new report from Anthropic that has many people concerned about A.I. -- security of A.I. and later in the program,

Richard Edelman will talk about the trust element of it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:21:03]

QUEST: Japan has issued safety warnings to its citizens in China, while China is urging its own citizens not to travel to Japan. You get the idea

here.

It is the latest move in a growing rift between the two countries, and it is all over Taiwan.

CNN's Hanako Montgomery reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Chinese tourists have canceled flights to Japan, and Japanese hotels have reported last minute

changes. Why is this happening? Because China is warning its citizens against traveling here after Japan's Prime Minister made comments that a

Chinese attack on Taiwan could prompt a Japanese military response.

A travel warning is a big deal because far more Chinese tourists come to Japan every year than visitors from any other country.

MELODY XIONG, CHINESE TOURIST: I think Japan is safe. It is not about its safe or not. It is about that you've been very unkind to China. The

government of China. Of course, we want to warn our people, that they are not kind to us. Maybe you should think about if you have plans to go to

Japan. They might not be kind to you.

NAOKO NAKAYAMA, JAPAN RESIDENT (through translator): Japan doesn't need to beg people to visit. We have always welcomed anyone who comes.

MONTGOMERY: In the first nine months of the year, nearly 7.5 million travelers from China made the trip to Japan. In that time, Chinese tourists

spent about 1.6 trillion yen or $10.3 billion.

So if Chinese visitors do decide to go elsewhere, Japan's tourism industry could find itself severely short of change.

Hanako Montgomery, CNN, Tokyo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Now, an enormous amount of talk on A.I. and the bubble, whether it is, of course, we are going to have talk about it. The markets, we will

have the results, of course, from NVIDIA. Also, we will have Richard Edelman, who is going to tell me the missing ingredient in all of these

conversations concerning A.I., after the break.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:01]

QUEST: Now, the U.S. Justice Department is up against a deadline over the next hour in the case against the former FBI Director James Comey. It has

to respond to today's revelation from the interim U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan, that the full grand jury had not seen the final indictment of

Comey. Only two or three of them actually saw the indictment that had actually been put together after the grand jury rejected one of the counts.

So either it is a fatal flaw or it is a clerical error. Of course, Mr. Comey is accused of lying during a 2020 hearing about whether he ever

authorized the leaks to the press. He pleaded not guilty. Katelyn Polantz is watching the developments.

It is a fascinating one this, because it is -- I mean, this is classic technicality. The whole grand jury didn't see the final indictment, only

according to Halligan, the foreman and two others or something. Does that invalidate the indictment?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE SENIOR REPORTER: Well, Richard, that is going to be a question for the judge. But the way that you look at it,

some people would say that this may be just a classic technicality. She should have taken it in better form through the entire grand jury, but as

the way this landed in court today, it seemed to be a much more serious issue.

Richard, that's because James Comey's legal team, the defense team, they are trying to sow the doubt that the Justice Department acted appropriately

in any way when they handled this indictment at the end of September. They are saying that it was rushed through, that the people who were bringing

this case, Lindsey Halligan, the interim U.S. Attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia, she was only there for four days. She was running

over what other prosecutors were warning her was not a case that was worthy of charging, that Donald Trump himself was directing the Justice Department

to charge this case, that Halligan made statements to the grand jury that misconstrued the law and Comey's rights, and how a trial with its evidence

would proceed.

So they are trying to say there are a lot of problems. And this, when it landed in court, added to that pile.

QUEST: I am grateful to you. Thank you.

There are so many questions I want to ask but I don't have time tonight, but I will store them up for a future occasion. Thank you very much indeed.

Enthusiasm for A.I. stocks, we are talking about it. It is going to be put to the test with the release of NVIDIA's latest earnings. The bigger test,

longer term is the technology and whether it can gain the public's trust. A new report from Edelman found that people who reject A.I. overwhelmingly

distrust it, over 70 percent of people feel that way.

U.S., Germany, U.K., and the Edelman report found that the enthusiasm varies with income levels. People who make less money are more likely to

worry they will be left behind.

Richard is with me, Richard Edelman, chief executive. He joins me now.

Now, here is the real problem with it all. It is coming whether we like it or not. So I guess the issue is, why do we care if people trust it?

RICHARD EDELMAN, CEO, EDELMAN: So, Richard, the key question is whether people are going to let A.I. into their lives for health care, for

financial services and other aspects of their existence. And trust is the key to the castle. And if people trust the technology to improve their

lives, make it simpler, make their work performance better, that's great, and then they will trust it.

If they think however it is going to end their jobs, then we are really in trouble.

QUEST: Right, but when you say if they trust it, trust it to do what? To give the right answers? To have their best interests at heart? What

actually is the deficit of trust here?

EDELMAN: I think the deficit of trust is we see the disadvantages and we don't see the advantages. It is actually a problem of the equation and we

need actually to give people personal experiences. That is what is clear.

And also make sure that they believe their bosses about the job impacts, that they are going to be retrained if there is going to be a change in

their status.

[16:30:18]

QUEST: We're not -- we're talking about different levels here, aren't we? We're not talking about asking ChatGPT how to make a decent burger and how

long you should cook it for. We're talking about bigger stuff here, aren't we?

EDELMAN: Well, in fact, we are. We're talking about a fundamental reordering of work, whether it's in journalism, PR or anything else. And we

need to be very clear with people about where we're going. And that it's not just about how big OpenAI. is or the stock valuation of Palantir. It's

also that, in fact, it's going to make your life as a citizen better. Because you're going to be able to have faster drug delivery or, you know,

your own data is going to be covered.

QUEST: See, I don't want to be unduly cynical here, but those who don't trust it have good reason not to because the precedent is with them,

whether it be back to -- I mean, I can go back to the Luddites. I can go back to the first industrial revolution. I can go back to the dotcom boom

and bust. The information -- doesn't matter. They've all been told that they will be taken care of, and they are not.

EDELMAN: The big interesting stat in this study is the degree to which there's a difference between the developing countries. You see, China and

Brazil think it's wonderful, whereas Germany, the U.S. and the U.K. are really skeptical about it. And so it shows also that there's a major income

divide that, again, the top quartile of income people think it's great and the bottom quartile are convinced it's globalization 2.0. They're just

going to lose their jobs.

And in fact, in the United States, only 40 percent of young people trust A.I. That's a stunning statistic.

QUEST: So what do you tell, what do you tell your clients in real terms about how they need to handle this?

EDELMAN: We have to be very direct with people about here's the technology. We're going to show you how to use it. I mean, I think, you know, HP's A.I.

infused PC is a very good example of this. You give people the means of understanding and give them the ability to feel as if they're in control.

That's a key word. And that they are adopting A.I. at their pace and that it's in their interest. It makes their lives better.

And we'll show you how to do it. We're not just going to have soaring stock valuations for founders. And at the moment, that's the bulk of the

coverage. We have to show people the way.

QUEST: It doesn't bode well, does it, because I hear what you say, Richard, but again, our experience is the opposite. Our experience is it's going to

go badly wrong and those least advantaged will feel the full pain, and the rest of us who may have more will not really take the time and effort to

make sure that they're properly taken care of.

EDELMAN: So I really hope that that's not the case because in fact, it's down to my employer. It's fascinating. Just as in prior trust studies,

trust is local. In my employer. It is the employer who has the ability to get peers and colleagues to show each other. It's the employer who has the

ability to do training. It's the employer who has the ability to make sure that people are brought along as customers, as well as employees.

QUEST: Right. But let me throw one point on that. What the employer can't do is suddenly turn it on after decades of turning it off.

EDELMAN: Again, I think that business has really understood that this is a fundamental transformation of the workplace and that it is a serious

problem of trust now.

QUEST: Right.

EDELMAN: It is not just that the technology exists, it's that we're going to have slow adoption if we're scared of it. And so, like any other

innovation, it is not guaranteed to be accepted. Remember, GM seeds or nuclear power. So A.I. has to be understood, appreciated and implemented

well.

QUEST: Richard Edelman, thank you, sir.

EDELMAN: Thank you.

QUEST: Nvidia stock is up after hours. It's gone up. The earnings beat Wall Street expectations.

Clare is with me.

Clare, you've just had it dumped on your head. So tell me what you found out.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Richard, that whooshing sound that you can hear from Lower Manhattan that is all of Wall Street breathing

a collective sigh of relief right now because Nvidia did beat investor -- Wall Street expectations on both the revenue and the profits. It was a

fairly modest beat, but the company is posting really strong growth.

[16:35:04]

Continuing on this trend that we've seen over the last few quarters, we've got both profits and revenue up more than 60 percent year on year. And I

think what's really key here is that the forecast for the current quarter is also stronger than Wall Street was expecting. So we've seen these

concerns that big tech companies might be pulling back on their A.I. infrastructure investments.

QUEST: Right.

DUFFY: Concerns about an A.I. bubble. But Jensen Huang, CEO of Nvidia, is really trying to reassure investors that that is not what's happening here,

that there continues to be this massive investment. And Nvidia continues to be the beneficiary of that.

QUEST: Is Nvidia on its own, or is this a case of the rising tide lifting all boats?

DUFFY: Well, Jensen Huang would like for investors to think that this is a case of the rising tide lifts all boats. He actually said in his quote, in

this earnings report that A.I. is doing everything. It is everywhere all at once. And so I think that the message that this company is trying to send

is that this is going to have broad ripple effects and broad benefits across the economy. But certainly Nvidia is in a position to benefit more

than anybody because it is Nvidia's chips that continue to be at the heart of this A.I. infrastructure investment spree.

QUEST: You've seen enough earnings reports. You've had to give me a gut on this one. What's your gut?

DUFFY: I mean, I think that this is a really good sign for Nvidia.

QUEST: Right.

DUFFY: I think at the end of the day, it's unlikely that we continue to see any company grow at the rate that we've seen Nvidia grow over the last few

years, over the last few quarters. And so it's possible that we'll start to see this normalization, this sort of slowing down of the growth rate. But

65 percent year over year, I mean, any CEO would be thrilled to be posting these kinds of results.

QUEST: And I'm thrilled that you hoofed it back to the studio so that we could speak.

Thank you very much, Clare.

Now I want to build -- I want to bring it all back together. All right? I want to pull the strands of our program together because you've heard

Richard Edelman talking about lack of trust. You've heard Ken Fisher saying it's not a bubble, and you've had Clare Duffy talking about what the

results are actually showing.

So now, what's the big risk? Well, Anthropic claims it's discovered the first documented case of an A.I. led cyberattack. Chinese state sponsored

hackers using Anthropic's Claude, A.I. code tool, to target about 30 organizations. It included tech, banks, government agencies. The Chinese

embassy in the U.S. says the accusations are baseless and without evidence.

Tenable is one of the world's leading cybersecurity companies. It says many A.I. tools, including ChatGPT, have multiple security vulnerabilities.

Tenable's CEO is Steve Vintz. He's with me now.

Steve, we've spent a lot of time on tonight's program, and we're sort of -- you're pulling it all together for us because the missing ingredient here,

you heard Richard Edelman hopefully talking about trust. There is a lack of trust in A.I. but there's also a thumping big security risk with it as

well.

STEVE VINTZ, CO-CEO AND CFO, TENABLE: Hi, Richard. Thanks for having me here today. I agree trust has to be earned and not given. But what we're

seeing is widespread adoption of A.I., and we're also seeing threat actors accelerate the weaponization of A.I. According to our research, nearly 90

percent of all organizations are adopting A.I. in some way, shape or form. Yet nearly a third of those have experienced some A.I. related breach or

incident.

And the tactics and techniques may vary in which A.I. is getting weaponized. But what we're seeing is adversaries now use LLMs, which are

big A.I. models to craft hyper realistic, flawless e-mails to attack organizations.

QUEST: How is this different from previous DNS and all of those sort of things that we'd seen before?

VINTZ: Well, in some ways it is different, but in others it's not. See, A.I. is not magic. Yes, agentic A.I. can effectively automate attacks. It

can decrease the cost of attack. It can democratize the threat and result in an incredible speed for hackers. But these attacks, whether they're A.I.

enabled or not, are usually a result of poor cyber hygiene, which is a lack of MFA, multi-factor authentication, which means we're not scanning

internet facing assets, and we're not limiting access controls to minimize the blast radius of an attack.

And I think what all this points to, Richard, in trying to connect the dots here is that we need to fundamentally rethink our approach to cybersecurity

when it comes to A.I. and how we manage risk. For decades, the security industry has been built around detection and response. We simply can't be

fighting fires and trying to detect breaches. We need to move to more proactive measures.

QUEST: Give me a practical example of what that means. More proactive measures.

[16:40:07]

VINTZ: Great question. And it means really three things. Number one, visibility. Number two insight, and number three action. And doing that all

in a unified way. That means organizations need to develop a view, a broad view of their entire digital footprint. So you can see every system, every

device, whether it's on your network, in the Cloud or on the factory floor. All these industrial control systems are all digital. They're all

susceptible to exploit. And that also means that we need to leverage A.I. for good to help organizations proactively, not reactively identify

weaknesses.

QUEST: You see, the problem, I think, with this is that most companies would say we're taking cyber security very seriously. We've made it almost

impossible for most employees to get in, even when they intend to. But the reality is that it's the unknown unknowns and the knowns that you don't

know, and therefore, is it possible to be -- I mean, you're not going to get rid of every threat, but can you dramatically raise the level?

VINTZ: We certainly can. And I don't think we can eliminate the risk, but we certainly can reduce it. And we need to be thoughtful in our approach,

and we need to change how we think about security, how we deploy our time and how we invest our resources. And we have to acknowledge that hackers do

have an asymmetric advantage, meaning they only need to exploit one thing to be successful, whereas defenders need to secure everything to prevent

attacks.

And so we've innovated a lot over the years. We've become a very digital society, and security has become consequently an afterthought.

Cybersecurity, exposure management needs to be a forethought.

QUEST: I would say, sir, surely the biggest risk is people think they're doing a good job. And the reality is they're doing an absolutely terrible

job in many cases.

VINTZ: I think that's fair to say. And the one thing here that we need to acknowledge is that, look, I don't think there's any stopping A.I. A.I. is

not necessarily a technology. It's a cultural revolution. It's going to change the way we work and the way -- and the way we act. We'll have major

scientific breakthroughs in chemistry, math, and science, but we have to also acknowledge it comes with great risk.

And if you look at cyber, for example, well over $10 trillion this year in cyber losses. And the cost of that is not just to the corporation, but it's

also to the consumer.

QUEST: I'm grateful for your time tonight, sir. Thank you. We'll talk more on that.

And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable.

"MARKETPLACE EUROPE" is next.

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(MARKETPLACE EUROPE)

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