Return to Transcripts main page

Quest Means Business

Bitcoin on Track for Worst Month Since 2022; Pageant Owners Face Grave Legal Trouble in Thailand, Mexico; Patreon Wants Algorithm That Does Not Rot the Brain; Thousands Cheer on Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. Two National Guard Members Shot Near The White House; Hong Kong's Deadliest Fire in Decades Kill at Least 83; U.S. Tariffs Making Holiday Season More Expensive. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired November 27, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:19]

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: This is always the case, markets closed on the Thanksgiving Day holiday here in the United States. This was

the scene, though from Central Park West during Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. It was earlier today, the 99th edition.

Those were the festivities in New York, here are the main events of the day. A U.S. asylum program is now under scrutiny after an Afghan national

was accused of shooting two National Guard members in Washington.

Rescuers pull a survivor from the apartment complex in Hong Kong, hundreds though remain unaccounted for and you'll hear my conversation with the CEO

of Patreon, he says his social media company is one of the few that won't rot your brain.

Live from New York. It is Thursday, November 27th. I am Paula Newton in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

So we are learning new details about the two West Virginia National Guard members who were critically wounded in what is being called an ambush style

shooting in Washington, D.C.

Twenty-four-year-old Andrew Wolfe and 20-year-old Sarah Beckstrom remain hospitalized at this hour. We also have new information about the suspect.

Police have identified him as Rahmanullah Lakanwal, an Afghan national who came to the United States in 2021.

Now, the U.S. Attorney for D.C. says he drove across the country from Washington State to the nation's capital recently and used a revolver.

Officials say the motive behind the attack is still unclear. Kristen Holmes is in West Palm Beach for us, and she is traveling with President Trump and

Kristen, quite a somber day on, obviously what is a holiday for Americans.

Now, the President you know, he has been quite forceful in outlining how best he believes he can keep Americans safe after this shocking ambush. He

is deploying more troops, cracking down on immigration, but what else are you learning about what the administration may have in store? What are they

looking at?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it certainly looks like it is not going to just apply to Afghan nationals. What we've

heard so far in terms of immigration is that they are going to suspend any review of incoming requests for Afghan visas, as well as do another look at

Afghan nationals who are already on the ground in the United States.

But we have just heard from the Department of Homeland Security that says that part of this now, the Trump administration is going to reexamine green

cards issued to people from 19 countries of so-called concern. Of course, Afghanistan will be included in that, so that's just part of this process.

Now, something interesting that we heard from President Trump, he went on kind of a tangent last night when he was talking about all of this in

general, talking about this crackdown on immigration, and he stopped talking about just Afghan nationals and went into Somalians that are living

in Minnesota, saying that they were taking advantage of the United States.

So clearly, he has a broader picture in mind, although we don't know the details of it just yet.

NEWTON: And, Kristen, you know, the President did make this very political, right, right from the start. He is blaming the Biden administration. But

CNN has, of course, learned that, you know, this suspect, his asylum was actually granted by the Trump administration in the spring.

Does any of this matter to Trump officials?

HOLMES: I think what you're going to see, Paula, is that this is actually going to become somewhat of a bipartisan issue because it did span across

two administrations. We know that this suspect came into the United States under a government program in 2021 when Biden was President. He was granted

asylum in this country by the Trump administration.

There are going to be a lot of questions from everyday Americans, as well as from both Democrats and Republicans, as to how exactly this happened,

what traps were run, what kind of investigation was done or vetting was done on the suspect, because there are a lot of concerns that someone who

came here legally, again, across two administrations, came here and then shot two National Guardsmen, drove from Washington State to Washington,

D.C., and shot two National Guardsmen point blank. This is really heinous crime.

So I do think that part of this is going to be bipartisan. Now, when it comes to the politics, everything is always political. One of the things

that we have talked extensively about is the idea that just having the National Guard in these cities, largely Democratic cities itself, has

become somewhat of a political flashpoint.

Our reporters have been on the ground in the city talking to these Guardsmen who say that at times they are spat at, at times they are told to

go home. And of course, that's not everyone. Some people are thanking them for their service.

[16:05:04]

but because of the situation around these Guardsmen coming, which is President Trump deploying these troops to cities largely Democratic, as I

said, saying that they are going to help with immigration crackdown or help with crime in the instance of D.C., has made this a political issue, and

there are still a lot of questions about motive here.

When I was talking to White House officials last night, they said that they're still trying to get their hands around what exactly happened and

why this happened. Was this political? Because it is clear to everyone that this itself has become somewhat of a political flashpoint. So there are a

lot of questions here.

NEWTON: Yes, absolutely, and that investigation continues. And it is not just there in D.C., but on the West Coast as well.

Kristen Holmes, really appreciate your update there, especially letting us know that it is now 19 countries of concern, to be clear where those asylum

applications and approvals will now be scrutinized. Once again, Kristen Holmes for us, traveling with the President.

Now, we do want to stay on this story. Charles Ramsey is a former Washington, D.C. Police Chief and former Philadelphia Police Commissioner.

Again, a somber Thanksgiving given these two young people, and I do want to keep the focus on them. I mean, they are fighting for their lives right

now, so young and in service to their country were ambushed, as was the description by officials.

My thoughts, though, do turn to you, and given your experience in Washington, D.C., what do you think of the Trump administration's reaction

in terms of both trying to keep civilians and law enforcement safe?

I mean, do you believe the 500 extra men and women are going to make a difference here?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No. Five hundred will not make a difference. In fact, the 2,000 that are here now or in D.C. now

really aren't there to really fight crime. I mean, they're there to secure and be around like Union Station, certain federal monuments and so forth.

But they're not trained as law enforcement officers. It is a different type of training that they go through.

I mean, they are soldiers. They train for war.

Now, there are some police officers that are members of the National Guard as well. They would have had the training, but the majority of people in

the Guard do not have the kind of training they need to be effective on the street.

Now, having said that, what happened to those two Guardsmen yesterday? They were just caught totally off guard. I mean, I've seen the video and this

individual just walked right up on them, turned the corner and started shooting before they had a chance to have any kind of reaction at all. That

could have happened to anybody, whether you're a police officer, National Guard or whatever.

He was just bent on trying to assassinate a couple members of the National Guard.

NEWTON: Yes, and they clearly were a target in this case, and I want to get to the issues around that. You know, in terms of trying to prevent this.

This requires intelligence. It is key. But from everything CNN is learning, let's be clear. This Afghan suspect would have been one of the most

thoroughly vetted foreigners in the United States.

RAMSEY: Right.

NEWTON: So what does that tell you about prevention here? Intelligence? And I do want to bring in something controversial that's been said on the air

and CNN by other analysts, and that by bringing in law enforcement in this politicized environment, in a place like D.C., that they're just creating

more targets. Even that comment is chilling.

RAMSEY: Well, yes, I mean, and I agree with that. I think that, you know, the way in which the Guard is being used, which is basically for politics,

for political purposes, you've made them into targets. Now, you know, this individual drove all the way from Washington State to the District of

Columbia. If he just wanted to kill a member of the military, there are a lot of bases in between Washington State and the District of Columbia,

where he could have stopped and actually done that, but he chose to go all the way to D.C. Why? Because D.C. has been, you know focused on here in the

U.S., and it is our nation's capital. So you know, that individual intently came here.

Now, we are still getting a lot of information, background and interviewing people that know the man and going through, you know, his digital, history

and all that sort of thing. But clearly he wanted to make a statement here in Washington, D.C., but the fact that you have all these Guardsmen in the

city and I was in D.C. just last week and they are walking like, you know, in groups of four and so forth. I mean, they just aren't trained to do the

kind of work that you do in policing and policing is -- it can be dangerous.

I mean, right in Washington, D.C., we have a memorial with more than 24,000 names of police officers inscribed on a wall that were killed in the line

of duty. There is risk inherent, and in order to minimize that risk, you need the appropriate training.

NEWTON: I don't have a lot of time left, but one thing that really caught my eye, Chief, was the fact that he is -- there are no charges here yet

involving terrorism. Kash Patel, the director of the FBI and the President have described this as an act of terror.

[16:10:10]

What more evidence are they looking for if they are going to charge the suspect with that?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, the FBI is still in the process now of going through everything that they have found out about this individual, whether or not

the act was the result of some, you know, foreign government or some influence by some foreign government, not just a lone wolf on his own who

decided to do this, that would not fall under the definition of terrorism here in the United States. And we really don't have a statute on domestic

terrorism. So it is going to depend on what evidence they can come up with.

Now, there is real good evidence on this guy. We got it on video. I watched the video myself. So, you know, I think it is a very, very solid case, but

as far as charging goes, there are certain information that they need to be able to get in order to be able to, substantiate the charges that have been

placed against them.

NEWTON: Yes, and again, you've added a level of complexity to this that we are beginning to understand, which means this investigation will go on for

some time.

Charles Ramsey, Happy Thanksgiving to you.

RAMSEY: Yes.

NEWTON: I know you're thinking of every law enforcement member right now, not on holiday with the family, but working to keep everyone safe. Thanks

so much.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

NEWTON: Now, authorities in Hong Kong now say at least 83 people were killed in the fire that tore through several apartment buildings. Parts of

the tower were still burning more than 30 hours later.

Firefighters said they expect to put the blaze fully out by Friday morning, just a few hours from now. They pulled a survivor out of one of the

buildings late Thursday. Now, hundreds who live there have now been moved to emergency shelters. Many others, though still missing.

The complex was covered in bamboo scaffolding, which has been used for centuries in construction in Hong Kong. There is now fierce debate over its

safety. Hanako Montgomery gives us the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A public housing complex in Hong Kong charred with pockets of fire still burning

more than 24 hours after a catastrophic blaze left dozens dead and hundreds more missing in what is the city's worst fire disaster in decades.

Emergency officials laid out the herculean task that is facing them as they desperately try to find survivors.

WONG KA WING, HONG KONG DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF FIRE SERVICES: Temperature is very high in the fire ground and the inside layout is very complex because

the scaffolding is collapsed.

MONTGOMERY (voice over): That bamboo scaffolding and safety netting were encasing the eight residential towers which were under renovation. Those

structures were already on fire by the time firefighters arrived on the scene on Wednesday afternoon. And while the exact cause of this deadly

inferno that leapt from building to building has yet to be determined.

The city's Chief Secretary for Administration was quick to acknowledge the questions swirling around the bamboo scaffolding, saying that the

government is working on fully switching to metal scaffolding.

A criminal investigation has been launched and a police spokesperson said that three men who worked for a construction company have been arrested on

suspicion of manslaughter in relation to the fire. Many of those who were able to escape looked on in disbelief as the place they used to call home

went up in flames.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): As for my feelings, honestly, I don't even know how I feel right now, just taking things one step at a

time. Now I am just thinking about where I am going to sleep tonight, because I probably won't be able to go back home.

MONTGOMERY (voice over): They are now having to take refuge in temporary accommodation and start over.

MONTGOMERY (on camera): We are at one of the nine shelters that have now popped up across Hong Kong and according to the local authorities, at least

500 people are using the shelters because, again, they don't have any homes to return to.

These volunteers are collecting a lot of food and also water and heat protections to give out to these individuals who lost their homes.

MONTGOMERY (voice over): And as shock turns to grief, the search for answers goes on.

Hanako Montgomery, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Now, some of China's largest companies are donating to the rescue efforts in Hong Kong. Alibaba is giving $2.6 million and its founder, Jack

Ma, has donated nearly $4 million from his own foundation. ByteDance, the parent company of TikTok is giving $1.3 million and Xiaomi, Tencent and the

clothing brand, Anta have announced donations totaling $6.4 million.

Simone McCarthy has more now from Beijing, and it is clear that Mainland China and also President Xi, they are watching this closely. In fact,

President Xi has commented, and he is monitoring the rescue efforts and this investigation.

What more are you learning about that in terms of the interests of the Chinese leadership has over how this tragedy could have happened?

[16:15:10]

SIMONE MCCARTHY, SENIOR CHINA REPORTER: Paula, that's absolutely right. Chinese leader Xi Jinping came out early on Wednesday into the blaze to

urge all out efforts to prevent more casualties. He followed that up on Thursday by authorizing some 280,000 U.S. in emergency funding to be

offered through the Red Cross.

Of course, the Hong Kong government has been leading the relief and rescue efforts, as well as the investigation. But certainly it is very clear that

this is being viewed as a national tragedy for China. You mentioned the number of tech firms that have come forward to offer donations. Certainly,

this has been the largest story across Chinese social media. People here have been riveted by the case, offering condolences, sorrow, but also a lot

of questions as well, because here in Mainland China, Hong Kong is seen as having an excellent public safety record, and there is a number of

questions about how this kind tragedy could have broken out.

In fact, this isn't just the largest fire that Hong Kong has seen in decades, but it is also the deadliest fire that that Mainland China has

seen in about 10 years.

NEWTON: Wow. That is quite a perspective there. And Simone, I have to tell you, I was surprised to learn that bamboo scaffolding and we saw the

horrific pictures in Hanako's report there about basically it just up in flames and clearly being a hazard to residents and firefighters. You know,

that kind of bamboo scaffolding I didn't realize is not used in Mainland China? I mean, how clear is it now that those changes to, you know, to have

different to not use bamboo scaffolding anymore on construction sites in Hong Kong, that that is likely coming.

MCCARTHY: Well, Paula, you're really asking a question that Chinese social media users were asking throughout the day when they were also raising the

question of, well, why is Hong Kong still using this bamboo scaffolding? And it certainly harkens back to tradition. The scaffolding is ubiquitous

in the city. You can't walk down the street without seeing it, both for refurbishments as well as new construction.

Construction workers swear by it. They've been trained using it. It is more flexible. It is an ancient technique, as you mentioned earlier. And so

there has been a lot of controversy and resistance to past efforts to transition towards metal scaffolding. But we can certainly see, you know,

there are a lot of questions we should say about the causes. There are some synthetic materials which were also at play here, that authorities believe

may have contributed to the flammability.

So there are a number of factors, but at the same time, we can certainly see that there are efforts already to accelerate those conversations

towards moving towards metal scaffolding. And Hong Kong Chief Executive John Lee has already ordered an investigation into all of the bamboo

scaffolding in the city in the wake of this horrific tragedy in Hong Kong.

NEWTON: Yes, and even if we don't know anything about the investigation, we see from the pictures that that bamboo scaffolding really acted as kindling

throughout hours of the fire as we, you know, really monitored it in horror.

Simone McCarthy, really grateful for you to coming up for us live from Beijing. Appreciate it.

Now, coming up for us, this year's holiday season could come with that higher price tag. We will explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:20:43]

NEWTON: Listen up, shoppers around the world, they are all gearing up for the holiday season. But in the United States this year, gift giving could

come with a substantially higher price tag.

Lendingtree, a lending marketplace estimates that consumers and retailers will be hit with $40 billion of extra costs this December, all because of

President Donald Trump's tariffs. That's about $132.00 per shopper.

Now, Lendingtree is warning that higher prices could force people to cut back or push them into debt. Pau Pujolas is an associate economics

professor at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, and joins us now.

Good to see you. And I do want to rewind with you to the spring. And when the Trump administration, to the surprise of many, including you, used your

research to justify high tariffs on nearly the entire world, saying that your research shows that -- and I am quoting the Trump administration that

"the U.S. can improve economic outcomes, raise revenues and impose huge losses on the tariff nation, even with full retaliation."

I want to go back to your reaction. What do you think of the way The White House interpreted your research?

PAU PUJOLAS, ASSOCIATE ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, MCMASTER UNIVERSITY IN HAMILTON, ONTARIO: They left a substantial part of the work on the side.

They just picked the part that they felt comfortable with, but didn't really implement any of the work that was being done, and certainly the

way in which all this trade war has happened is light years from the type of work that my colleague Jack Rossbach and I and myself did in the paper

that they cited.

NEWTON: And given the way they have now conducted themselves in these trade negotiations, now, your research is timely because of the real world

implications. Now, in seeing how prices are behaving now. And we just articulated some of that. Does it bear out? In fact, the research that you

have done that unless tariffs are, in your words, optimal in specificity and scope, they obviously can actually hurt consumers and the economy.

PUJOLAS: For sure, and in fact, the tariff levels that we are observing are substantially larger than what would be optimal from the perspective of

only the United States. These very large studies have direct consequence, that is, the goods that are coming from overseas are going to be more

expensive because someone has to pay the tariff, and that is the consumer and the competitors, the local competitors, the American producers that are

competing with these foreign firms will take advantage of the situation and raise prices even further.

So it is not that everyone is going to lose, but the bulk of Americans are losing.

NEWTON: And we see that now. It has taken a few months. The Trump administration says it is still negotiating principally with China.

Now, as these side deals have been negotiated and a deal with China, if not Canada, right, is possible. How do you see tariffs affecting prices in the

months to come, given all the research you have done? And again, these are complicated equations, and you've made clear, and they have to do with

price elasticity.

PUJOLAS: That is correct. It is a difficult situation we are in now, all the research that any economist is doing is always, creating an artificial

world that resembles, as well as we can, what we are observing in the data. And then we are running exercises in the computer, in a world that is like

a video game, if you will.

And in all of those games that I myself play with, with my co-authors and all those that other economies are playing with, we all find that whenever

we are putting tariffs, prices are going to go up.

Now there is a big doubt that is lingering about what is going to happen in the U.S. economy, and that is what is the supreme court going to decide

when it comes to these tariffs? According to the prediction markets, they are betting that 75 percent of those studies are going to be strike out by

the Supreme Court, and if that happens, prices are going to go down immediately.

NEWTON: Immediately. And yet the Treasury is warning that that could have severe implications. Do you believe that, you know, in terms of an economic

strategy here? And again, as you said, you're putting these into computational models, but some of which The White House is looking at quite

critically and quite seriously, do you still think, going back to your research, that having targeted tariffs and using other sections of the law

to apply or keep those targeted tariffs in can work for the Trump administration?

[16:25:10]

PUJOLAS: It is very good question. So the thing that we have to understand is that the Trump administration is trying to do two things at the same

time with these tariffs. On the one hand they are trying to punish China because of all the practices that that the U.S. thinks that China shouldn't

be doing in particular, when it comes to technology transfer, this acquisition of intelligence of U.S. firms that is going to China. They

don't like that and they want to punish China for it.

And the second thing that they want to do is they want to give tax cuts to the people. They want to lower the income tax rate. And in order to do

that, there is only one way to do it. That is, you have to put taxes somewhere else.

Ideally the U.S. government would put something like a sales tax, taxing all the goods that are being consumed, not only the ones that are being

produced elsewhere, but doing so would be extremely unpopular. That is not something that the American public would appreciate.

So the next best thing that the U.S. can do, if they don't want to increase taxes on income, if they do not want to put a sales tax, is to put tariffs.

And that is the situation we are in now.

NEWTON: Yes, it will be interesting to see just how the administration reacts given, as you said, a lot of people are waiting for the other shoe

to drop on the Supreme Court.

Thank you so much for your insights. I do have to have full disclosure. Hamilton is my hometown. Your university is alma mater. I have an MBA from

your school. And the economics equations, the math equations behind you are already giving me chills, shall we say?

Professor, thank you for explaining that so well to all of us, especially those of us who may have forgotten some of our economics lessons. Thanks so

much. Appreciate it.

PUJOLAS: Thank you, Paula.

NEWTON: Okay, ahead, for us, tiaras and trafficking claims. The Miss Universe pageant is in a universe of controversy. We will explain what is

going on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEWTON: Hello, I'm Paula Newton, and there is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment when Mexico is investigating one of the owners of the Miss

Universe pageant for alleged links to organized crime.

And the CEO of Patreon tells me he is building a social media company that doesn't rot your brain. Before that, though, the headlines this hour.

[16:30:19]

A senior U.S. official tells CNN the Afghan man accused of shooting two National Guard soldiers in Washington had been thoroughly vetted before he

was granted asylum in the United States. Both service members remain in critical condition. Officials called the suspect a lone gunman who opened

fire without provocation. The motive is still under investigation.

Hong Kong firefighters say they expect to have the massive fire at a residential complex fully extinguished by the end of the evening in Hong

Kong. The city's deadliest fire in decades broke out Wednesday. Officials say it has killed at least 83 people. It's unclear how many, though, remain

unaccounted for. Three men connected to a construction firm have been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.

Pope Leo is warning against global conflicts on the first overseas trip of his papacy. He made the remarks at a gathering in Turkey that included

President Tayyip Erdogan. Leo also warned against decisions by world leaders that, quote, "trample on justice and peace." Pope Leo's six-day

trip will include a trip to Lebanon.

OK, so Bitcoin has been having one of its worst months since the crypto winter back in 2022. Now it has slid about 18 percent versus the dollar

after recovering some of its losses just in the last few days. But remember, Bitcoin hit a record high of $126,000 in early October. The sharp

loss has some investors wondering about the implications of a crypto bear market, especially with Bitcoin now recognized by banks and other financial

firms.

Adam Morgan McCarthy is a senior research analyst at Kalko, joins us now.

I do want to look, just check on the status of this market. Like let's take a temperature check here, especially since the selloff. It was not a

collapse. And as we just remarked, you know, the market recovered quite a bit. So what's your take on it?

ADAM MORGAN MCCARTHY, SENIOR RESEARCH ANALYST, KAIKO: Hey, Paula. Thanks for having me. I think my take is probably a little bit controversial. I

would say we're probably a little mini bear market right now for Bitcoin. There was a sort of major flashpoint event on October 10. Bitcoin drew down

about 20 percent in half an hour liquidity completely pulled back from the market. And I think people were reminded that this still is a nascent

market and that you have to be careful.

There's a lot of long tail assets out there. Anything outside maybe the top 10 is pretty illiquid and you got to be careful with your money. So right

now we're kind of facing like, you know, maybe the next couple of months could be quite tough for Bitcoin. It's down on the year. Stocks, gold,

everything else is at all-time highs. I think, yes, it's going to play out a little bit slowly now in the next few months.

There's a few drivers. I think your previous guest was talking about Trump and the tariffs last year. He was the crypto president. Bitcoin was coming

up to 100K around December 5th. Now he's looking like, you know, he's not done that much for crypto more than maybe, you know, kind of indulging his

own family's net worth in their meme coins and other projects. You know, there's been no policy. And in that policy vacuum, there's been some, you

know, strange practices pop up from public companies around the place that have left Bitcoin and other crypto assets kind of middling.

NEWTON: It is interesting because there is that lack of regulation, which most people assumed there'd be some momentum to the whole crypto boom, and

that hasn't proven the case, meaning investors sometimes know better. There are reputational elements of the crypto market that are really concerning

still to some.

I want you to listen now to Neel Kashkari. He's a Fed president, no less, who gave CNN his interpretation of crypto earlier this week. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEEL KASHKARI, PRESIDENT, FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF MINNEAPOLIS: There's nothing fundamental underneath crypto. So I've compared crypto to Beanie

Babies for a long, long time. Beanie Babies prices went up. They went down. Who knows why?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: I mean, Beanie Babies, Adam. We returned to an era there. What is he missing if anything? Is he accurately characterizing this, the risk in

the market right now?

MCCARTHY: I think, you know, the Beanie Babies comparison has been thrown around. It's an easy one to make. I think whenever you've got a kind of

easy comparison or something that reductive, it's maybe a little bit too, too simple. You know, there is value to a lot of the technology out there.

And for sure, there are things out there that I think when it all shakes out five, 10 years, 95 percent of the things that are going on right now

won't be around.

There's too many crypto assets, meme coins, a lot of these things, you know, some of it could be described as toxic. A lot of it is just, you

know, I think right now a kind of lucky chance play.

[16:35:05]

The market is going up. It's easy to launch these things. Let's see what sticks. Throw it out the wall. But there is some really interesting tech

out there. And things like tokenization, you know, tokenizing indices on chain and improving kind of workflows with derivatives and collateral

management. So it's -- I wouldn't agree completely with the Beanie Babies analogy myself.

NEWTON: Right. And yet you're very clear on what the risks are there. But again, this might just be a market that is maturing. Right? And especially

now that you have, you know, institutions, central banks all taking a look at this, I think there's two things, though, that I'm wondering from your

research, given your opinion. Do people worry that a crash in the crypto market will actually infect other markets, that there would be contagion?

What is your opinion on that?

MCCARTHY: I don't think it's a systemic risk to broader markets right now. I think we've seen that the last couple of weeks. October 10th, November

3rd, November 21st, massive drawdowns in crypto, not so much in other markets. S&P is still near all-time highs. Gold is doing pretty well.

They're trucking along intermittently. Crypto can be, you know, correlated equities. But it tends to be more of a kind of highly liquid macro asset

right now.

It's kind of a, you know, a good harbinger of the weekends. If the president likes to tweet something about tariffs on China or on Canada,

Bitcoin might move in a Saturday. So it's a little -- it's a good liquid asset for kind of macro trades of the weekend. But it's not going to bring

the whole market down right now. I think it's, you know, it's probably back around three trillion in size. Equity markets, bond markets, the U.S.,

they're 60 trillion, 70 trillion each. So it's not a risk in that sense.

NEWTON: Good perspective to take there. Adam Morgan McCarthy, I learned a lot in five minutes. We will definitely have you back as we have a lot to

learn about this market still. Appreciate it.

MCCARTHY: Thanks, Paula.

NEWTON: Now claims of drugs, arms trafficking and beauty queens in the mix to a remarkable story involving the growing scandal in the world of Miss

Universe. Just days after Mexico's Fatima Bosch was crowned the winner in Thailand, the owners of the organization are facing serious charges. A Thai

media mogul who's the largest shareholder of Miss Universe, is accused of fraud in a claim filed by an investor. A court in Thailand has now issued

an arrest warrant.

Meantime, authorities in Mexico accuse Miss Universe president Raul Rocha Cantu, who bought half of the organization through his company of leading a

drug, gun and -- a gun and fuel trafficking ring.

Valeria Leon has been following this extraordinary story for us. She joins us from Mexico City.

I mean, Valeria, can you just kind of untangle some of this? How did all of this come about? And these are very serious charges.

VALERIA LEON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Totally, Paula. And we just received last minute information in that case. The government of Guatemala has revoked

the honorary consular title from Mexican businessman Raul Rocha Cantu, the co-director of Miss Universe. He's currently under formal investigation in

Mexico by the attorney general's office, accused of participating in a cross-border criminal network dedicated to arms trafficking, drug

trafficking and the smuggling of illicit fuel from Guatemala into Mexico.

Rocha had been serving as an honorary consul for Guatemala, a position he was awarded back in 2022. But what Guatemala's foreign minister has now

revoked this designation. Officials say the decision began after authorities discovered that Rocha had changed the address without prior

authorization, a violation of the protocol, although the move was accelerated once the criminal investigation in Mexico became public.

So to be clear, Raul Rocha is no longer recognized by Guatemala as a consul, reflecting both procedural violations and the gravity of the

allegations he now faces in Mexico. And let me tell you that in a statement, Mexico's attorney general's office said they are still in the

evidence gathering stage and have not issued an arrest warrant for Rocha. But this case dates back to 2024.

Now, the timing has intensified as already turbulent Miss Universe controversy. Just days after Mexico's contestant Fatima Bosch won the

crown, accusations of corruption spread, fueled by pageant judge Omar Harfouch, who claimed that competition was rigged by Rocha due to his

alleged ties to Bosch's father. Bosch's father previously worked at Pemex, Mexico's state-owned oil company.

At the same time, Rocha held an 11-month contract there, a detail now drawing additional scrutiny given the fuel smuggling allegations. And

Fatima Bosch became the fourth Mexican woman to win Miss Universe. She's now being harassed online, facing posts accusing her of buying the title.

[16:40:06]

In Mexico she has received a lot of support, but many of the hateful messages she shared publicly are actually coming from outside the country

and -- outside the country and in multiple languages, although Mexico's president Claudia Sheinbaum defended this beauty queen, insisting that

Rocha investigation is unrelated to the legitimacy of Fatima Bosch's crown -- Paula.

NEWTON: Valeria, you've done a brilliant job in untangling all of this. And the more you speak, the more I'm incredulous as to the controversy

involving this contest in the Miss Universe Pageant. We will continue to follow the details. Really grateful to you.

Now, just ahead for us, the CEO of Patreon says his company's algorithm doesn't rot your brain. We'll share his vision for a different type of

social media.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEWTON: Few ecosystems are struggling more than our coral reefs, and they're facing a variety of threats like warmer temperatures, pollution,

and overfishing. Now, globally, the world has lost about 50 percent of its reefs since the 1950s.

Today on "Call to Earth," we dive in the Hawaiian waters with a team of scientists who are experimenting with sound to help revive them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Beneath the waves, we often picture a quiet stillness. But if you listen closely, the sea floor is bustling with

crackles, chirps and pops.

ARAN MOONEY, MARINE BIOLOGIST, WOODS HOLE OCEANOGRAPHIC INSTITUTION: A healthy reef is really just vibrant with sounds. You can actually hear fish

calling to each other, and so that might be a pair of fish scraping on the reef or attracting mates or defending territories.

ASHER (voice-over): Aran Mooney is the principal investigator of Reef Soundscapes and Biodiversity at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute in

Massachusetts.

MOONEY: We started listening to reefs really in the Virgin Islands in about 2012. The focus of that was how to really understand or use sound to

measure the health of reefs.

ASHER (voice-over): Over the last few months, Aran and his coral reef solution team have been conducting a field study on the reefs around Maui,

Hawaii.

MOONEY: We're going to go pick up the surface buoy first and then we will suit up.

ASHER (voice-over): But they're not here to listen. They're here to play their own symphony of reef noises to test if it can spark new life on

decaying areas.

MOONEY: When you lose these reefs, you begin to kind of lose the vibrancy, the sound cues or the scents that might attract those baby fish and baby

corals back to the reefs.

[16:45:05]

ASHER (voice-over): In a Caribbean based study, Aran's team discovered that coral larvae were more likely to settle when healthy reef sounds were

broadcasted underwater compared to those left in silence.

MOONEY: From there, we actually worked on building a system, what we call the RAPS or the Reef Acoustic Playback System. It's a little sort of

electronics integrated in a buoy. We tend to load in these healthy reef sounds and we put them on in the afternoon, evening and replay all night.

And then it is generally thought the coral larva selecting or settling their habitats at night. Different coral species have been responding to

sound so far, but in sort of different ways.

ASHER (voice-over): Today Aran and his team are returning to the ocean floor to wrap up the controlled soundscape experiment they've been running

over the summer.

SIERRA JARRIEL, RESEARCH ASSISTANT, WOODS HOLE OCEANOGRAPHIC INSTITUTION: Ready?

MOONEY: Perfect. Light the fires, kick the tires.

JARRIEL: So we have two sites here. We have a speaker connected to a RAP that is playing back healthy reef sound. And then we have a fake speaker.

So it looks the same, but there's no sound being played back. At each site, we have settlement tiles at one and 10 meters away from the speaker or fake

speaker. They are attached to the bottom as a place for coral to settle on. So we're going to be taking these in to score settlement.

MOONEY: So the work we study here was sort of multiple goals. Basically, do Pacific coral respond to these sound cues at all, or is this a phenomenon

that's just in the Caribbean? Or is there a coral dialect essentially? Does it need Maui specific sounds or can we use just a really wonderful healthy

reef sound from elsewhere? And then which species might be most responsive or easiest for us to work with?

ASHER (voice-over): The dive is done, but their work is far from over. At Maui Ocean Center's lab, Aran's team will now examine the tiles under a

microscope and UV light. It will take weeks to go through all 240 tiles.

MOONEY: Caroline (PH) is looking at the fresh tiles and we're going through there and quantifying what's there.

Wow, this is a really beautiful coral skeleton.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a nice one.

MOONEY: Another cool thing we can actually measure is like the community that shows up. So the sponges or oysters that show up on those tiles.

ASHER (voice-over): While the early results are encouraging, Aran says there's still a lot to learn, but he believes sound could become an

important tool in rebuilding reefs.

MOONEY: Restoration of reefs is going to require a lot of different solutions. And reefs are different around the world, so we think we

potentially have one option. There's other components in the ocean, of course, that we need to think about, but we do think we have a pretty

interesting solution here. One is that it's using natural sounds out there.

You know, I want to go to bed at night thinking that I did the best to build environment for our, you know, our future, our kids to thrive in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Now let us know what you're doing to answer the call with the hashtag #calltoearth.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:33]

NEWTON: The CEO of Patreon is fighting back against social media companies that he says exploit users in order to sell ads. Now, Patreon is a platform

where creators can share their work and raise money for it. At the same time, Jack Conte says it builds community between those creators and their

audience. He says platforms like Instagram and TikTok take a much different approach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK CONTE, CEO, PATREON: The business model of these companies is to extract human attention from our brains, like gold from a mine, and to

convert it into ad revenue. They call these feeds for you, but it's not for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: I'm sure we can all relate to that. Now I spoke to Jack Conte earlier and began by asking him exactly what is different about his

approach.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CONTE: The main thing that needs to happen is algorithms need to change. Right now algorithms are prioritizing addicting us to our phones, right?

Algorithms are essentially just machines that are trying to accomplish something. That's what an algorithm is. And if you look at these social

media feeds, what is it that they're trying to accomplish? They're trying to addict us to our phones.

At the end of the day, if they maximize attention, then they maximize revenue. That's the problem. But what if those machines were optimizing for

something else? What if they were trying to accomplish something else? What if instead they were trying to help people get actual connection with each

other? What if they were trying to get creators paid for their work? What if they were trying to put humans in control and give us agency over our

own decisions?

That's what we're trying to do. And it's at the core of what we're trying to accomplish with our product.

NEWTON: You know, Patreon, you have a track record for many people who really are so loyal to Patreon and has seen it transform their lives, their

businesses. And this brings me to what you say is the second thing everyone should be doing, which is funding art, not ads. But I want to ask you, how?

Because we all know it's the money from the ads that really pays for what a lot of people want to do, even pays for the art.

CONTE: But it doesn't. It does kind of. But the thing is, you know, on Patreon, there are creators with maybe a hundredth of the number of members

that they have subscribers on YouTube. And yet those creators are earning sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on Patreon, sometimes

millions of dollars a year on Patreon.

Overall, we've paid out $10 billion to creative people between, you know, fans and creators on Patreon over the last 12 years of Patreon's life. It's

resulted in $10 billion of income for creative people. Over $2 billion a year is being processed from fans and being sent to creators. And that's

with only 25 million paid memberships on Patreon versus billions of people on YouTube. So Patreon systems are a lot better, a lot more efficient, a

lot more effective at getting creative people paid for their work.

On these social media platforms creators are expected to do free labor essentially. And while there is some money for them, sometimes with these

creator funds that dry up or disappear two years later, or with some occasional ad revenue from a viral video, creators aren't being actually

and properly compensated for the labor that they're doing for these platforms.

NEWTON: And that also links to another one of your points, which is put humans in control. But I ask you, tech companies are actively taking humans

out of the equation. A.I. is telling us that humans are going to be, you know, less involved, not more so. So how do you change that?

CONTE: I believe the opposite. And I think tech needs to wake up, honestly. I think next year it will become very, very clear. There's a premium on

human-made work. People want to hear from other humans. They want to hear from other conscious beings who have real lived experiences and real

emotions. We want to hear what they've learned, what they have to say, what their opinions are of the world.

That's why people still tune in and listen to humans and watch humans and read human work. It's because humans actually matter. So, yes, we do need

to put humans in control. We need to -- we need to give these platforms a sense of taste, a sense of editorial opinion, a sense of what's cool right

now. And I think humans are better at knowing what's cool than algorithms are.

NEWTON: And so, Jack, even if everything you say is true and people work towards that, how do you work towards that? Like, how is TikTok going to

change?

[16:55:00]

How is Instagram going to change? How is YouTube going to change? I mean, what do you see happening here?

CONTE: I think the only way that those platforms are going to change is if their businesses are threatened, because ultimately I don't believe that

they exist to serve creators. And while that makes me sad to say, I think it's unfortunately true. If you look at the track records of their

decisions what they're really trying to accomplish is get humans to spend as many hours as possible on their phones in these feeds.

And that turns out to be really bad for humans and really bad for creative people. So I'm skeptical that these businesses are going to change for any

reason other than they're threatened. So I think it needs to start from other players. It needs to start from other companies, companies like

Patreon. There's a number of other platforms that are entering this space and trying to break up the monolithic social Web and trying to build a

better way.

Patreon is a part of that movement. And how does it change? What do we actually do? We make sure that the machines on the other end of our phone

are not optimizing for addiction. We make sure that they're optimizing for long-term relationships. And so what does that actually look like? It means

when you follow somebody, you see their work. Right now, one of the key problems with TikTok is even if you follow a creator, you don't see their

follow-up posts.

You don't see their back catalogue. You don't see or hear from that creator maybe for another six months. That's crazy. If you subscribe to somebody

online, you should see their work. That's why our algorithms work. And honestly, it's the way that all these algorithms should work.

NEWTON: And Jack, I only have about 30 seconds left. But to be clear, you're not talking about government regulation here. You are talking about

consumers, users, influencers doing something different, going to other platforms.

CONTE: That's right. Yes. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the government can solve this problem. I think it's got to come from a new set of companies. I

think it's got to come from people standing up and demanding something else and finally expressing how frustrated and tired we are of participating in

this ecosystem that isn't actually serving our interests. They call these feeds for you, but they're not for you.

The feeds are not for you. The feeds are for them. And it's time we all realize that and do something about it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: All right, we will check back in to see if anyone is doing anything about it.

OK. Here in the United States, Americans celebrating Thanksgiving. All eyes are on New York this morning for the annual Macy's Day Parade. Of course,

no Thanksgiving would be complete without the turkey.

And CNN's Harry Enten wasn't messing around.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: This has been quite the adventure for me. I started at the top of the parade in the upper 70s and Central Park

West here in Manhattan. I have walked well more than a mile. I think I've walked now two miles. I've walked basically the entire parade route. I'm at

West. Where am I? I'm at West Fifth and Sixth Avenue. My goodness gracious, I'm right near Times Square.

Look, we've seen a ton of great floats that have come by. We've seen Snoopy, we've seen Mario, we've seen Tom the Turkey of course. We have

seen, I mean, all of the ones that just kind of come to mind they're all just so nuts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: We saw Harry, the turkey. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone here who celebrates. That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Paula Newton. "GLOBAL

PERSPECTIVE" starts in just a few minutes. And Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END