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Quest Means Business
Airbus Warns Of Travel Delays After Issuing A320 Jet Recall; Trump: Any Document Signed By Biden With Autopen Is Void; National Guard Member Sarah Beckstrom Dies After D.C. Shooting; Donald Trump Says U.S. Land Action In Venezuela Will Start "Very Soon"; At Least 128 Killed And Hundreds Of Others Still Missing; Switzerland Prepares For Inheritance Tax Referendum; Consumers Flock To Shops In Search Of Black Friday Deals. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired November 28, 2025 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:26]
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: So a good way to end that holiday week. Stocks closed higher as you can see there, it was only a half day of
trading because of the Thanksgiving holiday, but hey, everyone on a Friday will take it. Those are the markets and these are the main events.
Holiday travelers could face headaches this weekend, as Airbus warns its popular A320 planes need an urgent fix. President Trump is escalating his
immigration crackdown after Wednesday's deadly shooting in Washington, D.C., and it is Black Friday in the United States. We will take you through
the best deals of the day.
Live from New York. It is Friday, November 28th, indeed Black Friday. I am Paula Newton, in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
And good evening, everyone.
Airbus warns of travel disruptions due to a sweeping recall of its A320 jets. The aircraft manufacturer says a software glitch must be fixed
immediately, temporarily grounding some flights. Now, the mandate follows an FAA investigation opened last month after an Airbus A320 made an
emergency landing due to a flight control problem. Airbus has since found that intense solar radiation may corrupt data needed for flight controls.
CNN transportation analyst, Mary Schiavo joins me now.
I want to deal first with the disruption and what you think that could cause, and then what the actual problem is here. So let's deal with that.
If you're taking all of those Air 320s out of service for a little while, I mean, what kind of disruptions could we be looking at?
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it is going to depend and it is going to vary airline by airline. So at this point, the count is something
like 6,440 possible aircraft affected worldwide, of course, 5,100 of those need a software correction only.
Airbus has said that that can be done if you have the technicians, qualified people to do it and you can do it properly, that could be done at
the gate. It can be done, you know, at various places. You don't necessarily have to take the plane out of service for a long period of
time. But on maybe a third or a fourth of them, they might need hardware changes too, that will take the plane out of service.
So some airlines have huge fleets. In the United States, of course, you know, JetBlue, Allegiant, American Airlines has a big fleet, and then other
worldwide, I mean, Lufthansa, Aeroflot, many South American carriers, EasyJet. So it is going to vary airline by airline.
But you know, the word, immediately is not just you know, a phrase. Immediately is a term of art, is a technical term, can be a huge, important
term. And when the FAA says and when Airbus says it has to be done immediately, that means you have to make that software fix before the next
flight.
So it will be happening right now for all those planes that just need -- not just, it is very important that need this software patch, but for those
who have to have any other changes, they'll be out of service for at least certainly, at least a few days.
NEWTON: Yes, and let's get to the technical details of this. I mean, in your estimation, how serious is this? I mean, obviously, in terms of
safety, we are grateful that they're doing it and grateful that they're doing it, in your words, immediately.
But you know, how concerned should we be?
SCHIAVO: Well, everyone was very concerned because it stemmed from this JetBlue incident off the coast of Florida on a flight headed to New Jersey,
when the plane took a precipitous dive, 15 people went to the hospital. Now, when a plane takes an un-commanded dive, the pilot did not put it in a
dive, everybody gets very concerned because of the history with the 737 Max 8, the first one crashed in Indonesia. At first there, was allegations it
was pilot error, et cetera, et cetera. Months passed and then a second one crashes and both those planes took un-commanded dives, and it was a
software problem, among other things.
And so for them, this JetBlue incident happened on October 30th, and here we are, less than 30 days away. We have the problem solved. We have the
patch, the fix in place, and the order has gone out to immediately fix these planes. I think that's the good news and the bad news, there is no
unnecessary risk in letting this wait, fix it immediately, and passengers will be far safer in the long run.
NEWTON: All right, you've certainly spelled it out there for everyone. We will wait to see how this affects these airlines, as you said right across
the globe in the coming weekend.
Mary Schiavo, always grateful to you. Appreciate it.
[16:05:10]
Now, we are following breaking news as well from U.S. President Trump. He says he is canceling all executive orders signed by Joe Biden using an
autopen. He is also threatening to charge former President Biden with perjury over the autopen's use.
Now, we have to note here that despite Trump's claims, there is nothing unlawful about using that autopen.
Kristen Holmes is in West Palm Beach, Florida for us following the President. And, Kristen, you've been following this for several weeks now
as the President has brought this up several times, but this is definitely an escalation here.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, absolutely! I mean, and also, we still don't actually know what this means. I mean, you
have to keep in mind, we've broken down every part of this Truth Social. He talks about how 92 percent of the things that Biden signed were signed with
the autopen. We don't know where they got that number. We also don't know the legalities of turning over everything that Biden signed.
And it should be noted that Biden has said publicly that the use of the autopen there was nothing scandalous about it, that he knew everything that
he was doing. As president, he knew everything he was signing. They just happened to use the autopen instead of him signing it, which means that
President Trump is essentially already saying that he is going to bring him up for perjury or on charges of perjury, because we know that this is what
President Biden has already said about the autopen.
Now, one interesting point about this is that President Trump has really been fixated on Biden's use of the autopen, both publicly and privately. He
has said he believes it is going to be one of the biggest scandals that the country ever saw. And so this, though, as you mentioned, is an escalation.
It is beyond just putting up a photo of an autopen in Biden's spot on his presidential wall, which we know he has done. It is beyond just saying
these items or anything he signed with the autopen should be null and void.
This is him saying, he is actually going to be taking action. So a couple of things. We have reached out to The White House to try and get answers on
what exactly this means. Is there something specific that President Trump is looking at that he wants to overturn, or is this just a blanket
statement?
Legal experts as to what President Trump actually has the authority to overturn, because as what you've said, there is nothing unlawful about
using the autopen. It is something that actually there have been investigations in the past and reports done on the autopen itself and the
use of presidential use, of which they all found, of course, is fine to do, which is why presidents have been doing it now for quite some time.
So again, a lot of unanswered questions here, but this does seem like a very severe escalation when it comes to President Trump and we are still
seeking to get more answers on why now and what exactly they're looking at doing.
NEWTON: Yes, and it is important to get that clarification obviously from the administration. We have already spoken to legal experts at CNN and you
know, they've said that, look, we don't even know if this can be done, if it is legal. They also point out in terms of talking to President Joe Biden
about perjury, that President Joe Biden, the former president, has the same immunity from the Supreme Court as President Donald Trump has today.
Given all of that, though, Kristen, we have seen you have witnessed this administration push things to the limit. Do you think that they fully
intend to do that here?
HOLMES: I do. Because one of the things that I have been told time and time again by administration officials outside of the President, is that they
are what they call a top down administration, meaning that all of the big decisions are coming from the top.
Every agency that means their head, but in charge of all of it is President Trump, and often, sometimes he surprises his own team by posting things
like this, but the answer is not to question it. The answer among his own team is to how do we get this done for the President, what needs to be
done? And what can we actually do? And that is how they operate in almost every situation like this.
So, you know, we are reaching out, but I am sure that there are some officials who were unaware that he was going to even post this and what it
means, so they're probably trying to figure it out themselves, too, before they get back to us. But I can guarantee you that this is going to be
something if President Trump wants it done, they are going to at least try to get it done.
NEWTON: Yes, and then we will see if this does after that end up in the courts with so many of these issues have.
Kristen Holmes grateful to you. Busy day of work there in Florida. Appreciate it.
Now President Trump is promising an even more intense immigration crackdown after this week's deadly attack on two National Guard members in
Washington, D.C. He has announced plans to permanently pause migration from, as he puts it, third-world countries. He is also threatening to
remove migrants already in the United States.
Now, this dramatic move comes as President Trump confirms the death of 20- year-old National Guard soldier, Sarah Beckstrom. She died of her injuries after being shot while on patrol in the nation's capital. Another victim,
24-year-old Andrew Wolfe, remains in critical condition.
The alleged gunman has now been identified as an Afghan national who was granted asylum in the U.S. back in 2021.
Josh Campbell is following all of these developments for us from Los Angeles. You know, given your FBI experience, Josh, and you look at what
they are trying to do right now in terms of determining, you know, what led to this?
[16:10:07]
Many people are putting the spotlight on vetting. We've learned a lot about this suspect specifically, and how he was vetted. But in general, what does
this process look like? Because it is a security process for the homeland once you have an asylum seeker seeking to be here.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No, that's absolutely right and after that chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021, the U.S. was left
with a dilemma. That is, there were numerous people in Afghanistan who had supported the war effort, who had supported U.S. and coalition forces, who
were then claiming asylum because they didn't want to remain under Taliban control.
And so what we saw was this effort that was kind of thrown together by the U.S. government to vet people, to bring them here into the U.S. Now, it was
an extensive process. It involves comparing the names of people seeking asylum with known or suspected terrorists. There was also a biometric
component that people would have to actually give DNA and fingerprints in order to compare with various databases, and people were interviewed in
person.
And so there is a question about whether this person, if it ends up being some type of, you know, inspired terror attack by a foreign group like
ISIS, did this person get radicalized later after they were already here in the United States, or was this something that had persisted throughout?
That obviously is a big focus on what happens.
I will note that, you know, having done this type of work where we bring people in from overseas who have helped the U.S. government, it is only --
it is limited by the information that the U.S. government actually has. So they'll run the name through a database and if there is no hit, that
doesn't mean that the person is "clear" -- completely clear, because, again, it is all based on, well, what has the U.S. government actually
collected on known or suspected terrorists overseas?
So a lot of questions about that vetting now underway. It has already gotten very political with President Trump blaming his predecessor, former
President Joe Biden. But for authorities, what they're doing is steaming ahead, trying to get to a motive. Was this someone who was actually
inspired by a terror group, or was it someone who was acting on their own personal grievances?
NEWTON: Josh, always grateful to you, especially given your FBI experience as we continue, as you said, the main question here, wondering what this
investigation will uncover in terms of motive.
Josh Campbell for us, grateful to you.
Now we want to stay on this story. Juliette Kayyem is a senior national security analyst and former DHS Assistant Secretary.
Good to see you, Juliette.
This seems to now be leading to a full immigration crackdown that could be unprecedented even by Trump administration standards and that's saying
something. How difficult would this be to pull off if you just parse the President's words? I mean, how would DHS manage to vet all of these people.
We are not just talking about migrants or asylum seekers.
Now, this could involve green card holders, people who already have legal, permanent residency.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, that's an important distinction. The White House did two different things. One is essentially a
travel ban against these 19 third-world countries, which are the range of countries you would expect. Venezuela is thrown in there because of Trump's
antagonism towards the leadership there and that's probably easier to do.
The Supreme Court has essentially said at the border, The White House can decide who is coming in and out, where the difference is now is this
sweeping assessment of what is called essentially repatriation. It is a right-wing term. Its background is in a sort of, you know, sense that there
is true Americans and then sort of untrue Americans.
The law does not view it that way as, as people get into citizenship in the United States, we don't make -- we generally don't make a distinction. So
there will be legal challenges to this. And certainly, if you are a green card holder or if you have lawful status, it is not impossible, but it is
much more difficult if you have no criminal -- no sort of criminal indictment or anything against you. It is much more difficult for them to
send you away. Although we certainly have some examples of that.
So, I mean, honestly, we don't quite know what it means yet because The White House has sort of come out sort of just like, fully with just sort of
this sort of, you know, massive change to immigration law and we will see how it is enforced and whether they can do it in the days ahead.
NEWTON: But leaning on your experience with DHS, I mean, they are already stretched, right? I mean, what kind of resources would you need to do this?
KAYYEM: Yes. It would be impossible to do so. Not the worry, but the idea, I think is that they now, by stating this, that they will go after
individuals who have lawful status, who are essentially, you know, green card holders, who they disfavor because of potentially their politics, what
they may have said online, what they may have said, you know, at a protest.
So take a green card holder, you know, two green card holders, one is pro- Trump, the other one has written on Facebook that they don't like Trump or his immigration policies or whatever policies that they will then -- to use
their status as a pretense to try to get that person out of the country. It is un-American. I am just describing it. It is unprecedented. It is not
generally how we treat people in lawful status.
[16:15:38]
But as we know, Donald Trump and his team, Stephen Miller and others are willing to push and some would argue, break the law. And then and then sort
of, you know, to satisfy less immigration policy but more emotional policy and then we will see what comes out. But that's the worry that they are
going to go after people who just disagree with them.
NEWTON: Well, and they've obviously attempted to do that already. I do want to get to the emotion of all of this. I mean, look, Americans want to be
safe. And this issue does hit on two issues that the President actually scores well on, and that's immigration and security. Security, whether
you're dealing with crime or whether you're dealing with suspected terrorism. I mean, how do you square that? Because Americans will look at
this and say, well, maybe we should. I mean, this gentleman, the suspect was vetted and he may have committed quite a horrific crime.
KAYYEM: Yes, it is a very interesting case right now because of his background, the suspect, and his ties to the CIA. This case, we don't know
how this case will unfold. His ties to the CIA and U.S. Intelligence suggests there has been vetting long-term relationship and those are things
that make it quite a unique case.
I will say something about the polling here in the United States. It is interesting. Most Americans want secure borders and this is where I think
the Democrats were sort of off base on this, but this interior enforcement stuff, like going after green card holders, going after the spouses of
service members, you know, taking grandmothers, you know who have been here 30 years, that is not polling well for the President. And so it will be
interesting to see, you know, how Americans respond.
Americans are -- we are an odd country in a sense. We very much want tighter borders, but once you're here, unless you do something heinous,
everyone agrees with that. If you kind of settle in, we really do not like his polling -- Trump's polling is very low on this. We really do not like
the sort of tearing apart of the community and social fabric. And so that's why, for example, you see Independents turning against the President. So it
is something to watch for the President as well.
NEWTON: Yes, absolutely. Juliette Kayyem, thank you very much. Again, as we know, this is like a piece of fiction at times. The CIA is known of this
suspect since he was 15 years old in Afghanistan. I mean, just to put a button on that.
KAYYEM: Yes, a lot more -- yes, we are going to learn a lot more. That is true.
NEWTON: Absolutely. Juliette, thank you.
Now to Ukraine, where in a shock move, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's top adviser, has stepped down hours after his home was raided by anti-
corruption agencies. Andrii Yermak had been leading Ukraine's delegation, engaged in ongoing peace negotiations with Washington. His sudden departure
raises doubts about Kyiv's position heading into next week's talks, as Nick Paton Walsh reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is an extraordinarily damaging moment, I think, for Ukraine's President
Volodymyr Zelenskyy. His chief-of-staff and top negotiator for the ongoing peace talks are forwarded by the Trump administration. Andrii Yermak has
submitted his resignation, it has been accepted by the president hours after his home was raided by anti-corruption investigators, the same
investigators who are looking into an extensive energy kickback related scandal that until this recent bout of diplomacy, trying to revive a peace
deal was the main headline in Ukraine, increasingly encroaching on Zelenskyy's inner circle.
We don't know if this morning's raids were directly related to that scandal. Let's face it, they probably were, and regardless of that,
Zelenskyy has framed this resignation as, frankly, a bid to remove doubt in Ukraine to try and draw a line ultimately under this distraction.
He thanked Yermak for his work as top negotiator, said that the ongoing talks with the United States would continue and name the individuals who
would be part of that. But the question ultimately for Zelenskyy is here. Look, he is at the most politically vulnerable domestically he has been
because of this corruption scandal, the fact that his number two, the man who is a T.V. producer with before government, who was essentially his
right hand man throughout the war, who led the key talks with the Russians and the United States over the past months.
The fact this man has now had to step down because of these questions, does that increase the heat on Zelenskyy or reduce it? We will find out in the
months ahead, but it simply adds to the false Russian talking point about the Ukrainian government's legitimacy and I am sure it is something that
President Trump will be paying attention to as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[16:20:27]
NEWTON: Now, more news just into CNN. A U.S. official tells us that Secretary of State Marco Rubio plans to skip next week's NATO Foreign
Ministers meeting in Brussels. Now, it is unclear why the top U.S. diplomat is expected to miss Wednesday's gathering as peace talks to end the war in
Ukraine are just picking up again. And so we will continue to follow that story, perhaps it has something to do from Venezuela, so stand by for a
live report from there shortly.
In the meantime, a record number of shoppers are expected to hit the stores this Thanksgiving weekend, the economy could sway them to shop more
selectively this season. We will let you know about that, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: So Black Friday shoppers are flocking to stores in the United States. The National Retail Federation expects them to turn out this year
in record numbers, 130.4 million in fact, today alone.
Now, some, though, may be limited to just window shopping, that's because of the economy. People are expected to spend a little less for the holidays
this year. The pinch from tariffs and the weakening job market are sapping U.S. consumer confidence. Now it fell this month to its lowest level since
April. Jeremy Goldman is the Senior Director of Marketing, Retail and Tech Briefings at E-Marketer and he joins us now.
Happy, happy Friday. Despite all the downer news on the economy, you still expect a pretty robust holiday period starting today, right?
JEREMY GOLDMAN, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF MARKETING, RETAIL AND TECH BRIEFINGS, E- MARKETER: Yes, that's right. So we actually see that a lot of people have done their shopping and began in earnest a while ago. We actually have a
little bit more of a positive overall holiday forecast. E-Marketer says that retail e-commerce sales will grow seven percent from last year, and
physical retail will be up, too.
But again, you're right, there is a lot of uncertainty that we are covering that is going to be very interesting to see how it plays out.
NEWTON: Yes, kind of a bare knuckle season for a lot of retailers who are really hoping that this season makes or breaks their year.
[16:25:00]
Okay, listen, confession here. I am old enough to remember Cyber Monday. Remember that?
So Jeremy, that's why I and many viewers need you. So please explain to us how A.I. assisted shopping is impacting or could impact retail numbers and
trends this year.
GOLDMAN: Yes, it is a great question and things really are shaping up to be very interesting. So for those of you who haven't used them yet, tools like
ChatGPT are popping up left and right. We also see major retailers like Target and Amazon and Walmart, and they're introducing on site tools that
are A.I. assisted shopping and a lot more users, particularly young users, you're probably not surprised by that, are getting more and more
comfortable at using A.I. to help, not necessarily purchase, but to start to do some of that discovery and research.
They're getting very good at that and I think that that's a trend that we are expecting to have a real impact for the first time probably this year.
But it is still around the edges and I think that there are still a lot of people who are still getting comfortable with gen. A.I., and it is going to
take a while to see this play out over the next few years.
NEWTON: Yes, it will be interesting to see, though, if it does actually transform shopping the way obviously online shopping has transformed
everything that we buy and how we buy it.
I do want to talk to you about this counter A.I. trend though, and this is fascinating to me. Apparently its led by groups like Amazon. You 'know,
that they want to pull people away from those buying agents. What is that all about
GOLDMAN: Yes, I mean, it is all about who wants to be in charge for lack of a better term. I mean, like everything else in life and, you know, ChatGPT
really feels that they can get other people to plug into their ecosystem. That's what Target is doing by being tightly integrated with ChatGPT and
allowing people to buy through an A.I. interface and amazon has basically said, you know, hold up, we have quite a lot of market power.
We want people to go the old-fashioned way, visit our site, use our A.I. shopping tools, and we don't want to be crawled by a site like ChatGPT and
I think that's a really interesting kind of who will win fight that we are going to see play out over the next few years. And, you know, there is a
lot of dollars at stake, obviously.
NEWTON: Yes, absolutely. And not just in the merchandise that you're buying, but in advertising as well as so many of these businesses now have
all this revenue coming from advertising. They need people on those sites.
Before I let you go, I've only got about 30 seconds left. Is there a trend over the last few weeks that surprised you at all? Like, what are you
seeing with consumers, or has this gone really much better than you thought it would when we look at the whole tariff situation from the spring?
GOLDMAN: That's one thing that we were following very closely throughout the whole year and I think essentially tariff uncertainty, which is still
real, but it is kind of factored into the equation for the average consumer, you know. So do we think that we are going to see a little bit
more unease in Q4? That could make things a bit more rocky through December? Absolutely.
But generally speaking, the economy has held up. It is just -- you see people who are shopping off of value a lot more than we would have
anticipated. And I think that for retailers that are offering the right kinds of value at the right time throughout the holiday season, they're
going to probably be smiling come January.
NEWTON: Yes. Interesting and so much of that has to do with the timing on the discounts that you're giving consumers.
Jeremy Goldman, learned a lot. Appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Now, next up for us, as the U.S. ramps up its military presence in the Caribbean, President Donald Trump says land action in Venezuela could begin
soon. We are live in Caracas.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:31:53]
NEWTON: Hello. I'm Paula Newton, and there's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment when Swiss voters are expected to reject the measure imposing new
taxes on the country's wealthy residents.
And we'll discuss how to find that perfect gift with our managing editor of CNN Underscored, you'll want to see this.
But before that, the headlines this hour. Chief of Staff for Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has resigned. Andriy Yermak resignation comes
hours after the country's anti-corruption agencies raided his home. Yermak had been seen as Ukraine's second most powerful man. He was leading the
Ukrainian delegation during recent peace talks with the Trump administration in Geneva.
Police in Hong Kong have arrested eight more people in connection with a deadly apartment complex fire. At least 128 were killed as a result of the
fire, and officials say that number is now expected to climb with hundreds still missing. Investigators are looking into construction materials and
maintenance issues. Residents also say their building's alarms failed to ring.
Syria is accusing Israel of a war crime, saying Israeli troops launched a savage and deliberate bombardment that killed at least 13 people, including
women and children. The IDF says troops infiltrated the Syrian village of Beit Jinn to capture two Lebanese militants, it says clashes broke out,
wounding six Israeli soldiers.
Sources say the U.S. military killed survivors on board a suspected drug boat after their vessel had been disabled. Now, the incident happened in
the Caribbean back in September. Sources say the first strike appeared to kill some of the people on board. The second attack killed the remaining
crew and sunk the ship. One of the sources says Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth ordered the military to ensure there were no survivors. It's
unclear whether he knew people were alive before that second strike.
Now, in the face of those strikes, President Donald Trump says the U.S. may soon take action on land in Venezuela to combat drug trafficking. On
Thursday, Secretary of State Pete Hegseth paid a visit to the largest ever U.S. warship, which was recently moved to Latin America, the U.S.
president's comments come and suggest that he has made up his mind on a new course of action for Venezuela. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And in recent weeks, you've been working to deter Venezuelan drug traffickers, of which there
are many. Of course, there aren't too many coming in by sea any more, you probably noticed that. We'll be starting to stop them by land also. The
land is easier, but that's going to start very soon. We warn them stop sending poison to our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: It's going to start very soon, he says. Stefano Pozzebon is in Caracas now with more.
I mean, look, we've been pulling on a lot of news threads just in the last few hours. So, we found out about that second strike on those boats. We
heard from President Trump yesterday, but now the New York Times is also reporting that U.S. President Trump and Nicolas Maduro apparently had a
phone call last week. If we put all of that together with the fact that Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, who's been very involved in this issue
says he's not going to those meetings in Brussels next week. Does this all really saying that there's going to be a crucial week to come for
Venezuela, to say the least?
[16:35:24]
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN JOURNALIST: Yes, to say the least, for sure. And this comes after more than four months of this military escalation in the
southern Caribbean. It seems like that the Trump administration had, for weeks, if not months, tried this double approach, which we have seen Trump
done time and again with other world leaders, for example. And we've seen, of course, the United States try the carrot and stick approach towards
Latin America historically, which means that you either go along with what we suggest you to do, and that will bring benefits to you, or if you stand
up to us, we will bring down, in this case, the largest aircraft carrier in the history of naval warships.
So, I think that we have seen these two approaches going almost side by side. We haven't been able to confirm that report from the New York Times,
Paula, by the way, that is definitely something that we have heard in the past, in the last few days, that there was this -- the idea of having a
call was proposed by both Maduro and Trump himself, but our sources here in Caracas and up in Washington have not been able to confirm whether that has
happened yet. Of course, if we do, we'll bring that to you.
But I also think that Maduro has now seems to be less intent on convincing Donald Trump that there could be a negotiation, and he seems, at least,
based on what he said yesterday, he seems more prepared for an open confrontation.
NEWTON: Yes, Stefano, I don't have a lot of time left, but, I mean, it's clear, even if they did have this phone call, Maduro does not believe --
does not want to hand over power. He'll negotiate with the United States, but the bottom line is he does not want to leave.
POZZEBON: No, he definitely doesn't want to leave. And he's definitely somebody who has been in that chair negotiating for his future millions of
times. One thing that we often forget about Nicolas Maduro is that he comes from -- he used to be a Transit Union leader. He used to be a bus driver
here in Caracas, and he had his first political experiences leading the picket lines and strikes against the municipal transit authority here in
Venezuela's capital Caracas.
Nicholas Maduro is very, very, very used to standing up to the pressure and just not bending his line. We will see whether the argument coming down
from the White House in the form of aircraft and military planes is this time successful in bending the will of the Venezuelan leader, Paula.
NEWTON: OK, Stefano, good to have you on the ground there. Appreciate it.
Now, officials in Hong Kong have confirmed 128 deaths in the city's worst fire in decades. They are warning the death toll could climb further, with
many people still unaccounted for. Firefighters have finally managed to put out the blaze two days after it began, eight more people linked to
construction at the site have now been arrested and investigators are looking into the property's fire alarm system.
Hanako Montgomery has more now from Hong Kong.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hong Kong's worst fire disaster in decades left seven high-rise residential
towers standing only as burnt out shells. Well over a hundred people are dead.
MONTGOMERY: The Hong Kong authorities said that by Friday morning local time, the fire was completely extinguished at the housing complex behind
me. But they say that around 200 people still remain missing, and they fear the death toll could go up in the coming hours, if not days.
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): Over 48 hours after the disaster, some new detail as to how the fire at the Wang Fuk Court complex spread so quickly and so
severely. With an investigation set to take up to a month, early questions have focused on construction cladding that had covered the buildings for up
to a year.
CHRIS TANG, HONG KONG SECURITY CHIEF (through translator): It ignited the mesh nets and quickly spread to the polystyrene boards around the windows,
resulting in the fire in other floors and buildings.
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): Authorities have also said they're investigating whether the fire alarms were functioning properly on the day of the blaze.
Several residents who spoke to CNN said that the alarms in their buildings never rang and some only discovered there was a fire when they looked
outside. Authorities believe the blaze began close to ground level on building six around 2:30 on Wednesday afternoon. Images have surfaced on
social media of the early embers of what would become of raging inferno, creeping up the cladding and spreading to the other buildings.
[16:40:02]
MONTGOMERY: Have you seen a disaster like this in your careers?
WALLACE, AUXILIARY MEDICAL SERVICE VOLUNTEER (through translator): I have served in the auxiliary medical service for about 10 years. I joined a team
at 16 and now I'm 26. I have never seen such a shocking scene appear in front of me.
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): Survivors have described their panic, many unsure of how to escape the burning buildings.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my home. Look over there, the 10th floor, that's where my home was. By the hills, that's where it used to be. I
really want to go back, but my home is probably gone now. They won't let us go back. So, when I look in that direction, my heart feels so heavy.
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): This domestic worker watched from her employer's high-rise apartment as the fire took hold.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At first, so panic. I was so scary because the fire burn so big. At first, yeah, so scared and panic.
MONTGOMERY: And now, how are you feeling?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, when I think about it, I'm grateful because I'm still alive.
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): Hong Kongers will band together to help the victims of a disaster, which is not yet over.
Hanako Montgomery, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Coming up for us, Switzerland has long been a haven for the world's wealthy. A referendum this weekend could impose a new tax that would target
them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: The wealthiest families in Switzerland are bracing for this weekend's referendum on a new inheritance tax. The measure would impose a
federal tax of 50 percent on inheritances and gifts worth more than 50 million Swiss Francs. That's about $61 million, the revenue would go
towards fighting climate change.
The vote will take place on Sunday. A number of reports say the referendum, though, is unlikely to pass. Isabel Martinez is a senior economist at ETH
in Zurich, and she joins us now. Good to have you on with us.
And this is a topic that fascinates so many. Can you just let us know what's behind this referendum and why did the government decide to hold it?
I mean, did officials believe that this tax against the rich, if you will, would prevail at a time when income inequality is really a winning issue?
[16:45:15]
ISABEL MARTINEZ, HEAD OF INEQUALITY AND PUBLIC ECONOMICS, KOF SWISS ECONOMIC INSTITUTE, ETH ZURICH: No. So, one thing to understand that it's
really important is that the Swiss democracy works such that any citizen can collect 100,000 signatures about the topic that they think we, the
people, should have a vote on. And so, this is a popular initiative that was raised by the young socialists. So, it was their idea. It doesn't mean
just because we're having a vote on it, that it's necessary, backed by the government. The government has always said from the very beginning that
they are against this proposal.
But again, this is a fundamental part of the Swiss direct democracy that we vote on issues, and so one of the issues that we're voting on now is
whether we should tax the very rich more and finance climate -- fighting against climate change with those revenues.
NEWTON: And that is, is what is so intriguing about this, is that you know this money is supposed to go to climate change, and yet you're saying that
it's unlikely to pass and the government doesn't back it. Why not?
MARTINEZ: Well, there's a fear that the rich people that do live in Switzerland, many of them foreigners, because of the mild tax climate that
Switzerland offers, will move away once you introduce this inheritance tax. So, in the end of the day, Switzerland might lose more tax revenue than it
might gain, because if somebody moves away, let's say 10 years before they pass, that would mean 10 years where they're not paying income and wealth
taxes, right? Because Switzerland is one of the few countries that still has an annual wealth tax.
So, in the balance, Switzerland might lose more tax revenue than it might gain from the few inheritances that it will tax eventually.
NEWTON: And in fact, you say that Switzerland lives and breathes by this so-called tax competition, right? What I'm intrigued by is that, you know,
the vast majority of people in Switzerland really still want to protect that, they understand that these revenues mean a lot to government coffers.
MARTINEZ: Yes, because we have tax competition, not just with other countries, but also within the country. So similar, like in the U.S., you
have different state taxes, so we have different cantonal taxes within the country. And people do really understand that when they think about moving
from -- into a new house, they think, oh, should I move, you know, like, just across the state border, where I will pay less taxes.
So, it's really people are not just aware of tax competition because of, you know, wealthy individuals from abroad moving to Switzerland, but also
because, even within Switzerland, it's very well understood, and it's understood that having more rich people means that the average taxpayer,
hopefully will pay less taxes.
So, it's really a fear that those taxpayers might move away. There's another fear, though, and that is that entrepreneurs might move away and
take jobs with them, which is maybe a less substantiated fear, because an entrepreneur -- the founder of IKEA, is a nice example. He moved from
Sweden to Switzerland. He lived in Switzerland most of his life. But that doesn't mean that it affected where IKEA was headquartered. It was actually
headquartered in Luxembourg and the Netherlands, for tax reasons.
NEWTON: Headquartered there and still with a lot of jobs in Sweden itself. This has been a fascinating look at this. We'll wait to see the results of
the referendum, but I thank you for explaining that to us, because, as we've learned with so many things here at QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, it's not
always a simple issue. Isabel Martinez, appreciate it.
MARTINEZ: Thank you.
NEWTON: Now it is Black Friday. We'll have a look at the best deals you can find. You'll want to see this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:51:17]
NEWTON: Items are flying off the shelves today and being dumped into online carts as consumers flock to the shops and go online looking to take
advantage of Black Friday sales.
Now, every year, I - and I know you're with me on this face this same challenge. I have no idea what to buy, what's best and where to get it.
That's where Rachel Quigley comes in. She is here to help all of us. She is the managing editor of CNN Underscored, a very valued, valued department
here at CNN.
And here's the first thing we want you to do, Rachel, please take us behind the scenes a little bit, because we're fascinated by this. How do
Underscored editors choose the best gifts of the season?
RACHEL QUIGLEY, MANAGING DIRECTOR, CNN UNDERSCORED: Yes, well, Paula, every single day we're testing out products at CNN Underscored, and we actually
have a dedicated gifting team, and they all -- they spend all year compiling these lists for whatever the gift guide is for your husband, your
wife, your brother, your sister.
So, when we test out a really good product, we'll flag it with the gifting team, and then they'll add it to their relevant list.
And then, of course, then we keep our eyes on all the latest trends, any new products that are coming out, and we'll test them out to see, is it
worth the hype? Is it just another gimmick?
And then again, we'll tell our gifting team like, this is a really good thing. It would be great for your neighbor, your in law, and then, of
course, if we receive an amazing gift ourselves, we'll also flag that with the gifting team.
But it really honestly, Paula, it's just research and testing. A lot of that goes into it, and that's what we do all day at Underscored, it's a
very fun job.
NEWTON: It is a fun job, I'll say. But obviously you guys take this very seriously, because you know that we take the reviews very seriously. I
mean, how specific are you when you go about assessing these items and do an actual review?
QUIGLEY: Yes, Paula trust is really important to us at Underscored and we rigorously test every single thing that we're recommending. You know, we
want to make sure that our readers are really spending their money wisely, so that they know when they're buying one of our recommendations, that they
are buying a decent product. We've had our hands on it, we've tested it, and, you know, we show them, we have videos, pictures, we talk about why
we've picked it, how we've tested it, why it's better than this model or this model.
You know, if you search for gift ideas these days, you'll get a lot of A.I. recommendations. And you don't know, is this a good product. Has anyone
actually had their hands on it? So, we really want to make sure that, as I said, our readers know that we've tested this out and we are recommending
it and you should buy it and it's worth your money.
NEWTON: Yes, it's true, Rachel. I mean, the A.I. has actually made things more complicated as far as I'm concerned, and that's why I always go
looking through the Underscore review. If you guys have reviewed it, to have a look.
All right, now we're going to get to the fun parks. I've been waiting all week for this. All right, recommendations the man in your life, because the
man in your life is always the one that's difficult to buy for. What are you looking at?
QUIGLEY: Absolutely OK. So, I have something here in the studio with me. Now, this is a brand new razor on the market. It's just new I think this
year, it's called -- it's from Lathan. It's called the T1 Pro. Now all the guys that Underscored love this razor, Paula, you can see it's very small
and compact and quite sleek, and I'm told that it keeps its charge for weeks and weeks, even with daily use. And you can also charge it with a USB
C cable, so that if you're traveling, it fits easily in your bag. You don't have to bring an extra battery with you. And it's just as I said, it's good
for a clean shave, or if you're trimming your beard. All the guys at CNN absolutely love this product.
And also, again, if you have a traveler in your life or a man, we love this electric toothbrush. It's from SURI. It's great for traveling. I have one
of these myself, Paula, it keeps -- its charge for one full month, and then this case that it comes in, it has a U.V. light inside and it kills 99
percent of bacteria.
[16:55:19]
So, when you put the toothbrush into the case, it's actually being cleaned, and this is on sale today for 20 percent off.
NEWTON: I love it. I hope no one from my family is watching right now, because you know what I'm going to be doing after the show.
When we get to people who, you know, kind of are easier to buy, let's say, for any women in your life, but our standards are a little bit higher,
aren't they? Rachel, sometimes that gets tough too.
QUIGLEY: Indeed. Well, I have this amazing beauty tool. Now, again, there's a lot of beauty devices on the market, and it's hard to know, does it work?
Is it just, you know, nonsense? We love this one from Korean beauty company Medicube. This is called the Booster Pro. Now, Paula, I have one of these.
I use it about three times a week. It uses things like LED light therapy, microcurrent device, and it targets skin concerns like smooths out
wrinkles, minimizes pores, and it can really tone along your jaw line as well.
So, as I said, I absolutely love this. It's on sale for 30 percent off today, $150, so definitely a great gift for the woman in your life.
Another thing, now, this was actually named on Oprah's greatest things list this year. So, you know that it's a good gift. It's these great bag charms.
Now, bag charms are having a real moment this year, and this one from a company called Malibu Sugar. Yet there it is on screen now that, as I said,
this one's a little bit more chic and sophisticated. It's really good for adding some swag to your handbag.
You know, it's a little -- you know, 70 -- almost $75.00 is a little on the pricier side, but it comes in a beautiful, beautiful gift box, and it's
kind of a unique gift. And as I said, it was on Oprah's Favorite Things. So, you can't go wrong with that.
NEWTON: Can't go wrong. Rachel, I don't have a lot of time left. But what about the people that are really hard to buy for? Any one thing you can
point out about them and is it teenagers, in laws, like, who are they?
QUIGLEY: Teenagers of course are hard to buy for. If you have any Taylor Swift fans in your life, I'm sure everybody does, then we love this
necklace. It is a subtle nod to Taylor Swift song August, because it has the lyrics engraved on the pendant. It comes in silver or gold. It is 20
percent off today. It's under $30.00 on Etsy.
And Paula, honestly, Etsy is like a treasure trove of really, really great gifts and gift inspiration. And you can get things personalized on there.
It's just Etsy is probably my favorite place to buy gifts.
And then anyone else who's really hard to buy for, Paula, honestly, you cannot go wrong with the scented candle. Everybody loves a scented candle,
and of course, different smells.
NEWTON: OK, all right, Rachel, I promise you, as long as I'm filling in for Richard, we will have you back on the show, although you have to do the
next segment with Richard, OK, that's a deal. Really appreciate you, especially this time of year.
Rachel Quigley, for us from CNN Underscored.
That was QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, I'm Paula Newton. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
