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Quest Means Business
U.S. Markets Rise After Fed Cuts Rates; Trump Confirms U.S. Forces Seized Oil Tanker Off Venezuela; Australia's Age-Restricted Social Media Ban Now in Effect; Italian Firm Unveils "Michelangelo Dome" Defense Shield; Regeneration Project Set to Open in Athens by 2028. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 10, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:16]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street on a day-and-a-half, it has been -- look at the Dow
and you'll see exactly that late afternoon bump up because the Fed has cut rates and Powell says he doesn't see rate rises next year. So the market is
off to a bit of a tear.
And one and a two and a one, two, three. Oh dear! No we've only got two there. I think today could have been -- we will talk about who and why is
ringing the closing bell in just a moment. Those are the markets and the events you and I will talk over the next hour.
The United States has seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela. It is an escalation in the dispute between the two countries.
A divided Fed has cut rates. There are dissenting votes in both directions and a proposed solution to Europe's security worries. It is called the
Michelangelo Dome. The CEO of the defense contractor, Leonardo is with me live tonight on the program.
We are live. I am back in New York after my troubles. Good to be back with you. Wednesday, December the 10th. I am Richard Quest and I mean business.
Good evening.
A late session, a late rally on Wall Street. Thanks to that rate cut from the Fed. I will bring you the latest on that in a that in a moment and this
is how the market has reacted, and it has gone up quite sharply, but let's just twist and turn for a second to the breaking news as we have a major
escalation between Venezuela and the U.S. President Trump says the United States has seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela, and not just an
oil tanker, a very big one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: As you probably know, we've just seized a tanker on the coast of Venezuela, a
large tanker, very large, largest one ever seized, actually.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: All as the U.S. is building up its presence, military presence in the Southern Caribbean and they have got those deadly strikes on nearly two
dozen vessels in the region. Boats that Washington claimed were smuggling drugs that nobody else has been independently to verify.
The oil prices jumped in the moments after the announcement from Donald Trump. Stefano Pozzebon is with me from Venezuela's capital in Caracas, and
Betsy Klein is at The White House.
Do we know -- I think this is one for you, Betsy, to start with. Do we have any idea why they would have seized this particular oil tanker?
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER AND WRITER: No and certainly there are going to be a lot of questions for The White House going forward
after the President made this announcement a few moments ago. He confirmed the U.S. has taken control of an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela.
As you heard there, he said, it is very, very large. He did not offer any immediate explanation for the move, but this is certainly likely to further
escalate tensions between the U.S. and Venezuela. The President was asked two key follow up questions by reporters in the moments after that
statement.
He was asked one, who owns the tanker. He said, you will get that information later, did not provide additional details. And second, what
happens to the oil? To which the President said, we will keep it, I guess.
The President also said it was seized for very good reason, declined to provide additional details. But all of this comes as The White House is
facing mounting questions from lawmakers on the legality of that double tap strike in the Caribbean, as well as about two dozen other strikes in the
area. The President continues to weigh action in Venezuela after weeks of mounting threats, and there has been a significant show of force in the
region, including about 15,000 U.S. troops in the area, as well as more than a dozen warships.
We know that the President has been briefed on a range of military options, including airstrikes on key government or drug trafficking facilities, as
well as the possibility of a more direct attempt to take out Maduro. So the President, weighing all of this as he is taking this step.
QUEST: All right, thank you. Betsy Klein at The White House, straight to Caracas and to Stefano Pozzebon. What do you make of it? What will they
make of it there?
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think that they will be extremely worried, Richard, by this escalation. I think that more than 90
percent of the foreign income in this country comes from oil. Of course, we know that oil -- there is an oil embargo currently from the United States
into Venezuelan oil, a particular major oil company, Chevron, is allowed to operate here, but the rest of the oil is often sent through back channel
and on the black market to countries like Asia -- like China, India and other Asian powers who have a higher appetite for risk, for example, than
other countries that are more linked to the United States and are more fearful of sanctions.
[16:05:19]
If indeed the United States decided to start seizing these tankers, it means that they're really ready to go after Maduro's purse, and that is
clearly a very, very concerning escalation, especially for Maduro's government here in Caracas.
We've asked them, by the way, a reaction to confirm. We haven't been able to hear from them.
QUEST: Okay. So, Maduro, you've been talking to and what he is saying about the whole situation, does he not realize -- I am sure, of course, he does
realize, but if the U.S. decides to start bombing on land, which is what the President has suggested, then the whole thing becomes much, much more
difficult for him.
POZZEBON: Yes, much, much more difficult.
I think Maduro understands the pressure that he is under, and I think it was interesting today, for example, that on the day that the Venezuelan
opposition leader was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, we were invited to a rally here in Caracas. We were told to go to a rally here in Caracas
because clearly, the government didn't want to show that image. The image of Maria Corina Machado, the opposition leader who beat Maduro at the polls
last year in Oslo, receiving that prize.
He instead -- Maduro gave a rally, gave a speech and we were there and I was actually able to ask him what he made of the Peace Prize, whether he
wanted to -- he thought it was a moment for the entire country to celebrate the peace and this is what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POZZEBON (through translator): Do you not care about the other prize, the one in Oslo?
NICOLAS MADURO, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): What matters to us is the life of the people. Health, work, housing, the prosperity of our
homeland, the new economy.
I want us to be concerned, as President with the truth of the people, with the issues of the people and not want to govern the world. Nobody can
pretend to govern the world. We simply believe in diplomacy and dialogue and in respect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POZZEBON: Now, Richard, that is a government that is an authoritarian leader who clearly does not want to give an inch. Most Venezuelan T.V.
channels or radio stations were not allowed to take updates from Oslo. We are not allowed to take the speech that eventually it was Maria Corina's
daughter, who gave the speech up in Oslo because the opposition leader was unable to reach the Venezuelan capital on time.
And of course, Maduro really showing no sign of moderation, really showing no sign that he is prepared to sit down with either Venezuelan opposition
or indeed the United States, if indeed that it would come down to a military escalation. Extremely worrying times here in Caracas -- Richard.
QUEST: All right, thank you. Stefano Pozzebon down in Caracas, watching there.
To our main business agenda, the Fed says the balance of risks has shifted as it cuts the interest rate for the third month in a row, or third meeting
in a row I should say.
The Chair Jerome Powell, says the labor market has softened, as he explained the 25-basis point cut, the quarter point cut. Markets rose
slightly after his comments, and the Chair said despite inflationary effects of the tariffs, most members do not view it as a persistent risk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEROME POWELL, U.S. FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: A reasonable base case is that the effects of tariffs on inflation will be relatively short lived,
effectively, a one-time shift in the price level.
Our obligation is to make sure that a one-time increase in the price level does not become an ongoing inflation problem, but with downside risks to
employment having risen in recent months, the balance of risks has shifted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The Fed's dot-plot shows further rate cuts may be unlikely. Only four members -- voting members predicted rates would fall below three
percent in 2026. That suggests most believe only one or two rate cuts will be appropriate next year.
Matt Egan is at the Fed. Matt is with me now. I listened to -- there is one particular answer from the chair where he sort of suggested that he was
quite comfortable with the position that they are in, that they've taken out the necessary insurance on the jobs front. They can now wait and see
what is going to happen on inflation.
MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, Richard, and wait and see. I think that was the operative phrase of this press conference. He said it again
and again and again. Powell is signaling that, yes, they are comfortable with cutting interest rates three times in a row. They do now have the Fed
rate at a three year low. This has been a significant decline in rates.
Now, they are still in this really challenging situation where they have stubborn inflation and they have unemployment that's going up, and so
that's why we've seen this divide at the Fed. Three Fed officials dissenting for the first time since 2019.
[16:10:06]
But Powell and most of his colleagues have decided that unemployment is the bigger risk, but they are not that worried about unemployment. That became
obvious from those new projections that they put out, right, they only see unemployment at 4.4 percent at the end of next year, so they're not really
bracing for a spike in joblessness, and they're not overly concerned about inflation, because Powell said, pretty clearly, he said it is mostly being
driven by the President's tariffs, and they do believe that that is going to be likely a one-time hit to inflation that will then fade in the coming
months and years to go.
Now, during the press conference, I asked Fed Chair Powell about the fact that he has only got three more meetings as the leader of the Federal
Reserve, and whether or not he has given any thought to what he wants his legacy to be. Take a listen to his answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POWELL: My legacy, my thought is that, I really want to turn this job over to whoever replaces me with the economy in really good shape. That's what I
want to do. I want inflation to be under control. Coming back down to two percent, and I want the labor market to be strong. That's what I want.
EGAN: Now, I also asked Powell whether or not he can say if he plans to stay on the board of governors here at the Fed, even after his term as
Chair expires in May, and he kind of punted on that. He wouldn't drop any hints about what he is going to do.
But look, bottom line here is, interest rates are coming down from the Fed. But it is very unclear when they are going to be able to cut interest rates
again, in part because they don't sound all that concerned about inflation or about unemployment going up any further -- Richard.
QUEST: Matt Egan in Washington. Matt, I am grateful.
The chair had tent this in both directions. President Trump's appointee, Stephen Miran, voted to cut rates by half a percentage point. That's the
same as he said last meeting. Two others, though, voted in the opposite direction. Austan Goolsbee and Jeffrey Schmid both wanted to hold the rates
steady, suggesting they are much more concerned about higher inflation.
Loretta Mester is the former president of the Cleveland Fed with me now. Good to see you, Madam. I am very grateful. Thank you.
I always find it wise to start these interviews on these occasions. How would you have voted today?
LORETTA MESTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE CLEVELAND FEDERAL RESERVE: I probably would have dissented because I think that I am a little more
concerned about the inflation outlook than Chair Powell intimated in his press conference and not that it is moving necessarily up, but it isn't
moving down and it is still what I consider well above the goal.
So I probably would thought they didn't need to take another rate cut today against the weakening or the softening in the labor market.
QUEST: The economic picture is extremely complicated, and if you listen to -- I mean, as we listen to the Fed, he made that clear because it is not
that often that you do get the mandates, the dual mandate in such competing positions where you really, you know, it is a toss of a coin in a sense, at
any given moment.
So as we look to next year, it is wait and see.
MESTER: Well, I think, you know, they are in a very challenging position because as you point out, you know, they want to hit both parts of the
mandate, and yet, the things going on in the economy are moving them in the wrong direction. There is upside inflation risks, downside employment risk.
I think one thing to keep in mind is that the softening in the labor market, a lot of it is driven by what is happening on the supply side of
the labor market. And monetary policy really isn't a tool that can address that. Immigration, you know, has really reduced labor supply and people are
not joining the labor market at the same pace.
So even though demand firms aren't hiring, a lot of workers, they're not hiring a lot of workers either. And cutting the interest rate isn't really
going to change that much.
So again, I think the Fed is right to not have built in a lot of interest rate cuts next year because they want to see how the economy evolves.
That said, I mean, you can make a case for further cuts if you think that inflation is on this downward path to two percent, except for tariffs. I
don't think that's necessarily the case, but if we start to see that in the data, then they'll have a better -- a stronger case for, okay, now we can
start thinking about another rate cut to get maybe more towards neutral.
QUEST: I mean, two percent is as far away at the moment as it has ever been, in the sense that with the One Big Beautiful Bill, the deficit and
everything else and the money that's sloshing around, it will be very difficult in anything like short to medium term to do that.
[16:15:11]
And that makes what happens next crucial and I am talking now about the next leader of the Fed, whether it is Kevin Hassett and all the problems
that go there or whoever else it might be. That's going to be crucial.
MESTER: Well, I don't disagree. I think that the economy has proven itself to be very resilient this year, and remember, at the beginning of the year,
some people thought we would be in a recession and next year, there are these tailwinds from fiscal policy.
People are going to get bigger refunds than they thought they were going to get. You know, we had deregulation happening. We have you know, full
depreciation. So investment is going to be strong. So the economy is going to be strong.
So it would be not a good idea, I think, in my view, to do further rate cuts. But I viewed the press conference and heard Chair Powell, he was
careful not to really tip his hand one way or the other. He viewed policies in a good place now, but if he sees further weakening in the labor market,
I think they will respond to that. I don't think that's necessarily the appropriate thing to do, because I don't think a further rate cut is going
to solve the supply side of the labor market.
But I did not read that as being that's off the table.
QUEST: Do you have a preferred replacement in your mind for Chair Powell? I will give the names, of course. You've got Kevin Hassett, Kevin Warsh,
Christopher Waller, Michelle Bowman, Rick Rieder and there's always the dark horses as well. Do you have a preferred person that you think would do
a good job?
MESTER: I think the key is to get somebody who is really going to use what the incoming economic data is to inform their outlook and really, the
mission of the Fed driving policy decisions. We really need someone who is going to let political consideration affect their view of monetary policy.
And so that takes a strong person, it takes a strong leader, and it takes someone who can lay out a cogent economic argument, right, or a case for
whatever policy recommendation they're making.
And different people have that skill set and then to be able to communicate that not only to internally to their colleagues on the FOMC, but also
externally to market participants and also the general public.
So it is a hard job. It takes a real leader, but I think, crucially, given the environment we are in now, it has got to be someone who is going to
stand up for the independence of monetary policy making and not succumb to political pressure.
QUEST: I read an article this week, you may have seen it. Mohamed El- Erian's article in "The Financial Times" where he talked about the wider issue for the Fed. Yes, we all get terribly excited by interest rates, but
that the credibility and the role of the Fed in the future, the next year is going to have a crucial task, if you will, charting the Fed's course for
the next 20 years.
MESTER: Well, I think the Fed should do that kind of work itself. It should self-reflect what went wrong with its policy and I was on that committee,
so I can say our policy during the pandemic, what did we miss? You know, what could we have done better to avoid the strongest increases in
inflation that we saw? I don't think there was a way to mitigate that increase given what was driving it, but we could have reacted sooner, and
maybe not have inflation rise that quickly or that high, or maybe get it down more quickly.
So there are a lot of things that the Fed I think should be, you know, self-reflecting on and you know, you learn by doing. And I think the Fed
would be wise to take some accountability for some of those issues and think about better ways of doing their job, partly focusing in on the dual
mandate goals, making sure they have those first in mind whenever they're setting policy, making sure they have an implementation program that will
actually implement policy in the best way to make it most effective.
So again, the Fed should be doing that work itself.
QUEST: We lost the last few sentences from you, but thank you for joining us. I am grateful to you and we certainly hope, we just got what you're
saying. Good to see you. Thank you.
As we continue, teens in Australia are adjusting to life without social media, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:22:43]
QUEST: Australia is now enforcing its social media ban for people younger than 16 and the polls suggest the law is broadly popular. Of course time
will only tell if it has the desire to fetch.
CNN's Anna Cooban with the law and the reaction from those it is meant to protect.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER (voice over): Waking up to a new world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens when you try to log in?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It says my account is banned and I can no longer log on or use the app at all.
COOBAN (on camera): Children under 16 in Australia are getting used to life without social media. The Australian government says that that's for their
own good.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: This is indeed a proud day to be Australian because make no mistake, this reform will change lives.
COOBAN: And parents who have suffered tragic losses agree.
MATT O'BRIEN, LOST DAUGHTER, CHARLOTTE: It means so much. You know it is a very emotional day.
COOBAN: Matt O'Brien's (ph) daughter, Charlotte, died in September 2024, aged just 12. Her family say that she had been bullied online. O'Brien was
at an event in Sydney to mark the new law.
O'BRIEN: Were also incredibly proud, you know, we are proud of Charlotte and the role that she has played.
COOBAN: And the Prime Minister says that this law is just the start.
ALBANESE: What I've been asked to morning in media interviews, what will success look like? Success is the fact that it is happening.
COOBAN: Back at Australian schools, young people understand the arguments for this law, even if they're worried that they might miss out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is a good way to reduce distraction because with doom scrolling and everything, it reduces concentration and can just impact
your schooling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is going to be a definitely different because some people find social media a way of expressing themselves. They find it
comforting sometimes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do wish it was a lower age, but that might be biased because I am 15 years old.
COOBAN: Australia's Prime Minister hopes the rest of the world will follow his example. But for children, success of the ban could be measured in
simpler ways.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We deserve time with real people, to learn body language, tone, empathy and all the social cues you can't get from a
screen. We also deserve boredom, too.
COOBAN: The rest of the world is now watching to see if this big idea becomes a success.
Anna Cooban, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Stephen Scheeler is with me. He is chief executive of Omniscient A.I. and the former CEO of Facebook and Instagram in Australia.
[16:25:09]
Sir, you know better than anybody else, the argument -- look, it really isn't worth us going into the arguments because they're well-rehearsed and
neither side is really prepared to budge too much towards the other.
I guess, the only thing would be if you didn't do this, what would you do?
STEPHEN SCHEELER, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF OMNISCIENT A.I. AND FORMER CEO OF FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM IN AUSTRALIA: Yes, that's a great question. I think
-- I worked for a long time. It should be towards self-regulation or other methods such as, you know, trying to shut this down at the point of the App
Stores themselves. But I think what happened in Australia, it is happening around the world, a lot of I think parents in the community just cannot
wait for the social media platforms to get their act together, and they decided to act themselves, thus this new legislation.
QUEST: You see, the problem is that the companies, the various organizations, Instagram, TikTok -- their argument was almost -- we are
doing what we can, it is working and this is not going to work, so let's not do it. They didn't have a strong alternative prospect or policy other
than this isn't going to work, so let's not do it.
SCHEELER: I think you summed it up really well there, Richard, I think that's exactly the point. What was being done by the platforms wasn't
working, at least in the eyes of the community and in the eyes of research, and in the eyes of politicians. And therefore, there had to be more done.
Now, this might be seen as overreach, maybe 16 is not the right age. Maybe it is too young, maybe it is too old. But I think what Australia is doing
is what a lot of the world is starting to step into and say, well, the ills of social media -- there is a lot of good things about social media, but
the ills of social media are enough that something has to be done beyond just leaving it to Meta and the platforms themselves.
QUEST: I read Sir Nick Clegg's book, and you might have seen it when he of course he was number two or number three at Meta. Not exactly in favor of
all of this, believes that self-regulation can work, but I don't see any examples of it working to the -- you know, to the level of efficiency and
efficacy that we require.
SCHEELER: I think that's right, and also because I think self-regulation often has an inherent problem, which is if it runs counter to what the
essence of the core of that organization is and does, and the core of what Facebook does or any of these social media apps is that they want people to
spend more time on their platforms, be more engaged, and so, you know, building a product that you want to somehow sell less of doesn't make any
sense. How do you regulate yourself to do that?
So I think that internal contradiction just doesn't work and we've seen that play out in the fact that we are here today, we don't feel that social
media has done enough because I don't think they can do enough on their own with self-regulation.
QUEST: Ultimately, I've listened to a lot of interviews in the last few days with 16-year-olds and 15-year-olds and 14-year-olds in Australia, and
I am not sure I care what they think.
At one level, of course one does. But, you know, I am being slightly inflammatory when I say that, but you get what I mean. They don't have --
those 14, 15, 16-year-olds don't have the responsibility either of government or of teachers or of parents building up and bringing up the
next generation.
And that really is what this is all about.
SCHEELER: I think that's exactly right and we've all been teenagers. We will be teenagers. You know, we go through the phase where we start to play
a bigger role in our own decision making, our own lives, our social world gets more complex.
The challenges that we face collectively become more complex. It is a very fraught time and we try to protect kids during that time. We try to give
them, you know, different responsibilities in a very measured way. But I think here, what we have done in the past few years, given -- I think we've
given teens a challenge for them to deal with, and they're just not coping well enough, and that is social media.
And so I think this is a is a good move to try to figure out what's the -- what is the right balance here to protect kids from harm, but also be able
to bring them into the real world, just as we have done for everyone as humans on this planet.
QUEST: Stephen, I am grateful. Thank you, sir, for joining us. We did have a breakup of the line, but what you were saying was far too important for
us to break away from you. And so we heard and we've got certainly got the gist of it.
Thank you sir.
Now, in a moment, the chief executive of the defense company, Leonardo, it is called Michelangelo's Dome Project. It is not just how to shoot things
down. It is much more than that. We will explain it when QUEST MEANS BUSINESS continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:30:00]
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. Together we've got a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'll be talking to the chief executive of the Italian defense
giant Leonardo about his plan to put an A.I. powered security dome over parts of Europe. And the chief executive behind Europe's largest urban
regeneration project. It's the Ellinikon in Athens.
All of that only after the headlines, because, as you know well, this is CNN and here, the news comes first.
President Trump says an oil tanker has been seized off the coast of Venezuela. It's a major escalation between the two countries. A source says
the tanker was heading to Cuba and Venezuela President Nicolas Maduro and his supporters have gathered in the country's capital. Maduro told CNN no
country can pretend to govern the world.
The winner of this year's Nobel Peace Prize is Maria Corina Machado, and says she will appear soon in Norway, in Oslo, after she missed today's
award ceremony. The Venezuelan opposition leader, who's been in hiding since last year, won the honor for promoting democratic rights. Her
daughter accepted the award on her behalf.
President Zelenskyy of Ukraine says his country could be ready to hold an election in the next 60 to 90 days if security can be guaranteed by the
U.S. and Europe. There appears to be a delay in Ukraine's sending out its updated peace plan to end the war with Russia. The Ukrainian president has
said he'd send it to Washington today.
The Italian defense firm Leonardo has unveiled a system designed to protect Europe's cities and infrastructures. It's called the Michelangelo Dome and
it's detecting and responding to threats from air, sea and ground. It's supported by artificial intelligence and is set to be operational by 2028.
[16:35:04]
Leonardo developing the system as Europe looks to ramp up its own defense industry. The chief executive and the general manager of Leonardo, Roberto
Cingolani. He's with me now.
Roberto, good evening to you. And when I hear the word dome, of course, we all think of Iron Dome and some sort of system the like that stops him
going. But I gather this is a lot more. It's a comprehensive system, not just designed to shoot down incoming missiles.
ROBERTO CINGOLANI, CEO AND GENERAL MANAGER, LEONARDO: Sure. Well, the concept is an open architecture that allows communication of different
defense systems from satellites, aircraft, land defense system, ships, drones. Those platforms are connected in a cyber protected environment,
which is the battle area basically. And all data are produced in a range of hundreds and hundreds of terabytes per second.
All data are collected and analyzed by high performance computers so that A.I. can evaluate the threat and assign the weapon to destroy the threat.
The point is the difference with what we know so far is that the architecture is open. So we add, we develop and add an upper layer of
communication that allows different platforms from different builders to communicate and to be interoperable, interchangeable, and of course, being
interconnected in a multi-domain. Every country can participate. And this is a sort of short track to accelerate the air defense.
QUEST: OK. It all sounds very complicated and very expensive.
CINGOLANI: Oh, actually, it should be the other way around. This is a sort of reverse engineering. A very expensive is to buy the same defense
platform for all countries. I mean, if you consider Europe with 27 countries, it's almost impossible that all countries purchases the same
platform from the same builder. It's a very heterogeneous defense system, each country having different aircraft, different tanks.
So the only way is to let them communicate and being interoperable. Given the existing arsenal, you have to facilitate the interaction among the
different platforms.
QUEST: OK. So --
CINGOLANI: So this actually is compatible to the NATO standard.
QUEST: OK. So I'm just curious. Let's take for example, these various alleged Russian incursions, whether it's in Poland or any of the Baltic
countries, how would something like Michelangelo Dome work in those scenarios?
CINGOLANI: Yes. Let me give you an example. For the time being, we know air threats can be ballistic missiles flying at five, six kilometers per
second. Hypersonic missiles flying maybe two kilometers per second. But changing the trajectory. So you need to see by satellite when they're
launched to track the trajectory with a combination of satellites and radars, and then to decide how to neutralize the threat.
Now, this cannot be done in a single kill chain. You need different sensors, as many sensors as you can, selecting the best weapon to destroy
the threat suggested by the A.I. So the more platforms you have interoperable into this defensive domain, the highest -- the higher is the
probability to neutralize the threat.
QUEST: Right.
CINGOLANI: So this is simply a communication problem.
QUEST: How do you avoid the system becoming too clever for its own good? And I don't mean killer robots. I mean that you put in place a system that,
you know, does everything except make a cup of tea, and yet, in the heat of the moment, as we've seen in Ukraine war that what it's really about is
drones and slaughter machines and people dying in trenches and things like that. A complicated system can help. But can it be too clever for its own
good?
CINGOLANI: Yes. I have a twofold answer. The first one is that we have to be afraid of multiple attacks. So tens of missiles, swarms of drones, a
combination of attacking systems. And you have to neutralize them almost in parallel. So the standard human chain could be too slow for a massive
parallel attack based on a very fast threats like the missiles. So A.I. just accelerates the analysis of the devaluation of the threat and the
choice of the weapon to destroy the threat.
This simply gives to human that does the final command more material, more information to make the best decision, actually to select the weapon that
has the highest probability to destroy the threat. Clearly, there is a multiplicity of weapons like swarms of drones and missiles.
[16:40:06]
They can reach you all at the same time. So you need to accelerate the detection time and the decision-making process. The standard doctrine could
be too slow for the present technology.
QUEST: I'm grateful to you, sir, for joining us. And we'll watch -- I hear you say 2028. That's only around the corner. We'll be talking about it more
with you, I'm sure, between now and then.
CINGOLANI: Yes.
QUEST: Thank you for joining. Thank you. Good night from -- thank you.
Coming up, a $9 billion regeneration project underway along the Athens Riviera. What's in store for the Ellinikon, in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: This week on "Call to Earth," we're journeying across India with the environmentalist Arun Krishnamurthy. We'll follow his tireless mission to
revive the country's declining water bodies as part of the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. His organization aims to repair the scars that have been
caused by rapid growth in population and in doing so, breathe life back into India's lakes, rivers and wetlands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A nation on the rise, India is a dichotomy of sound and stillness, of deserts and jungles,
of old and new. As one of the most advanced ancient civilizations, India has emerged today as the world's most populous nation.
ARUN KRISHNAMURTHY, ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST: With a big population, concentrated pockets, which comes with it their own challenges of garbage,
sewage, et cetera, and natural habitats of any particular developing region faces the brunt.
ASHER (voice-over): Arun Krishnamurthy and his organization, EFI, Environmentalist Foundation of India, are taking on the immense challenge
of reviving India's water bodies and the habitats that rely on them.
[16:45:08]
KRISHNAMURTHY: Hundreds of years ago, there was no electricity. People were dependent on surface water bodies. They needed, deep-down underground
storage units, slowly but steadily pumping water from the ground below to raise up. So stepwells or temple tanks were created. Many of the lakes,
ponds that we restore, we try to just have exactly how our forefathers wanted.
ASHER (voice-over): Some 70 kilometers southwest of Delhi, an agrarian village faced a drying landscape before EFI stepped in 2023.
KRISHNAMURTHY: We are in one of EFI's first ever hydro arbor complexes. A hydro arbor complex simply translates to water and trees in one given zone.
It was an open land with access to almost everybody and anybody. So dumping of debris, garbage, all of this was a persistent problem. So we've cleaned
this place. We've defined these water bodies, so we've given it a shape, structure, proper depth and then we've interconnected these water bodies
with a channel system. Then now, stage by stage, we are doing plantation within the zone.
ASHER (voice-over): This restoration sets off a chain of renewal. Rainwater collects, groundwater rises and the balance that once felt lost starts to
return.
KRISHNAMURTHY: The fact that it's full of water after this year's monsoons is very satisfying. At the same time reassuring that our work to bring back
water is being rewarded by nature. The water tapping gets compensated by the storage that we have here.
ASHER (voice-over): And as water finds its way back, so does life. Two years into its revival, the signs of recovery are everywhere.
KRISHNAMURTHY: The immediate response is from nature. You'll see a blade of grass coming up after the first rains, which is beautiful. Then a green
carpet takes over. Saplings you've planted start to sprout. A butterfly, a dragonfly, kingfisher, pond heron, all these birds start coming back.
ASHER (voice-over): From mounds of trash to a blue-green oasis, Arun says it will take another five to eight years before this landscape is
completely transformed.
KRISHNAMURTHY: There is no shortcut to nature conservation because the kind of damages we have done as human race to the planet cannot be fixed by the
whiff of a wand or the press of a button. It needs hardcore, physical field work and logical, science-based collaborative effort over a period of time.
It's very emotional for me to be here and this is why I started EFI, because nature work is truly, soulfully rewarding in more ways than one.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: I know, it's fascinating what he was just saying, that conservation work cannot be done with a flick of a wand. It takes years and detailed
hard graft in the field.
Well, we'll have more from "Call to Earth" tomorrow and you can watch the full documentary, "Reviving India's Waters," this weekend. Of course, it's
only here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:50:59]
QUEST: Much since civilization began, one place in the world doesn't shy away from elaborate construction problems. Greece. Now think about it. The
Parthenon was built atop the Acropolis in the Fifth Century B.C. To this day, some architects call it and consider it perfection. The ancient
theater of Epidaurus is revered for its symmetry and natural acoustics. And now the Ellinikon is under construction on the grounds of the former
international airport in Athens.
It's the largest Europe regeneration project. A budget of nine plus billion, and it will feature homes, shops, parks and Greece's tallest
skyscraper.
Odisseas Athanasiou is the CEO of the development company building it all.
First of all, how do I say it properly? Ellinikon. I'm sure I'm getting that wrong.
ODISSEAS ATHANASIOU, CEO, LAMDA DEVELOPMENT: You said even my name perfectly so Ellinikon seemed very, very nice sound when you said it.
Ellinikon. Yes.
QUEST: Ellinikon. You're too polite.
ATHANASIOU: Right.
QUEST: So, look, why is this not just -- I mean, to be blunt and brutal, why is this more than just a shopping precinct and a few apartment
buildings?
ATHANASIOU: It's much more than this. And the reason it's much more than this is that not only it's a huge project, we're talking about 2.5 million
square meters to be built. This is the whole Hudson Yards just to have a comparison over both phases of Hudson Yards over an area of 600 hectares.
And it combines all kinds of what would make a -- what we call a zip code paradise.
It has apartments of course. It has shopping. It has education, both in secondary and primary education. It has a university. It has a health
center. We call it a 15-minute city. And the reason we call it a 15-minute city is because you can go anywhere from your home to work.
QUEST: Right.
ATHANASIOU: To the sports within 15 minutes either walking or on bike.
QUEST: OK. But it's got waterfront as well, and waterfront in -- I mean, I'm familiar, relatively familiar with this part of Athens and it's pretty
nasty at the moment. And it's got -- I mean, it is ripe for regeneration and waterfront in Athens is extremely valuable.
ATHANASIOU: It is valuable. We're building it. We're likely to get the land through the privatization program that Greece went through the crisis
years. And I will say that the whole site is sitting in front of four kilometers of coastline in a sea you can swim with the weather of Athens,
as you know. And yes, of course, it's a working site. So that's why it doesn't look beautiful.
But the good news is that next summer, the summer of '26, the sports venues are going to be ready, along with some parts of the park. People are going
to enjoy the soccer, the field and track, the tennis, the basketball.
QUEST: Right.
ATHANASIOU: And just 15 months from now, people are going to be living there. So yes.
QUEST: How long is it going to take the whole project to come to fruition? And what do you think the final bill is really going to be?
ATHANASIOU: The first phase, first phase is everything that's going to be given to the public to do all kinds of things, not only to live, but as I
said, sports. Every facility I described. So this is going to be ready by '28. Part of it be given to the people in '27 and '28. The whole thing is
going to be completed. And then what is going to be left is another 7,000 apartments, along with half of the park that is going to be completed, we
believe, by '34, '35.
QUEST: Right. How do you prevent it just becoming for the rich famous celebrities or just for, you know, how are you going to make sure it's for
everybody?
ATHANASIOU: It's unique and it's for everybody? I'll tell you why. For every square meter we build, we have another square meter of green and open
space. The park that we built is going to be the biggest coastal park in the world, and it's open to everybody. The beach is going to be open to
everybody. The sports are going to be open to everybody, and the spectrum of the residential units that we're selling cover the whole thing. They
start at half a million euros at about 6,000, 7,000 euros per square meter. And they go, of course, much higher.
But people can live there, they can rent places. And as I said, the most important thing is that all families outside Ellinikon can enjoy the park,
the sports and all the facilities I described.
QUEST: The Greeks have a very enviable reputation when it comes to buildings. Sometimes it takes a bit longer than they ever intended to, but
they get it right in the end, and certainly if you look at the buildings that are there.
[16:55:06]
What's going to be your biggest challenge?
ATHANASIOU: The biggest challenge is exactly what you described. Not only we have this tradition in Greece that the whole world saw with Olympic
Games, we finish them, but in the last minute. But what we also had to face many difficulties now because you have seen what happened to the price of
construction material due to the energy crisis, COVID, the war in Ukraine, and also we have labor shortage all over Europe.
However, we overcame this. We built a management team that could face these obstacles. And now we are happy to tell you that if you come to Greece next
year, you're going to see people living there, which is the biggest victory for us.
QUEST: I think that -- I take that as an invitation for QUEST MEANS BUSINESS to come and visit next year. Thank you very much, sir. I'm
grateful for you. Thank you.
ATHANASIOU: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.
QUEST: Let's take a look at the markets and how they finished the day. You can see absolutely the Nasdaq, all the biggest markets. The Dow saw the
best of the day. And if we look at the Dow 30 you'll see it was absolutely broad based from industrials to financials. There were a couple of laggards
mainly on frolics of their own down at the bottom. But otherwise a strong bullish market on the back of a Fed cut and what might happen in the
future.
We'll take "Profitable Moment" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment." If we had to choose a theme for tonight, it would have been big ideas. They were everywhere in our show
tonight. Big ideas, people thinking big thoughts, societal thoughts. The Australian social media ban. Love it or hate it, it's something that's huge
in terms of what it means. Leonardo's Michelangelo defense dome, again, a big idea for the protection of Europe.
The resurrection and reviving of waters in India, that doesn't get much bigger. That requires good hard work. And right the way down to what's
happening in Athens, this waterfront project, you can see it as a small or you can see it as a big idea. You can see it as a private investment, but
it's all about making life better with grand thoughts, realistic thoughts.
And that's, of course, interesting when Matt Egan asked Jay Powell what he wanted his legacy to be, he said he wasn't interested in legacy. The chair
of the Fed said he just wanted to leave the economy in very good shape. Exactly as it's the big idea to balance between two competing, conflicting
arguably, parts of the mandate.
I like a good idea and a big idea.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, which is always a big idea. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to the in the hours ahead, I hope
it's profitable. Perhaps some big ideas and join me tomorrow.
END
